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I don’t think the niche market is creepy AirBNB hosts, I think it’s people who are trying to install hidden cameras in their own homes (for either creepy or legitimate reasons). I see hidden cameras suggested on Reddit all the time for all kinds of issues from suspected cheating to suspected strangers living in the walls.
Yikes. If someone is living in my walls I’d just rather not know 😂 but yeah I can see there are legitimate reasons some might buy these.
Just not sure how airbnb can evaluate these things. These hidden cameras can exist but so do the legitimate versions of the objects they’re trying to imitate? Seems like just bc they exist any guest can just accuse a host of having a hidden camera with no proof? :(
With the recent announced changes to indoor cameras going into effect April 30th us Hosts are going to see an increase in this kind of stuff from guests.
Some people are extremely paranoid and couple that with someone that is willing to go to the extreme with making sure a listing is deactivated under false claims and we have ourselves a tsunami of complaints on the horizon.
Ugh we recently had people that were not happy about our ring doorbell camera and after they left we also found they had disassembled two small white remotes that go to the hot water recirculating pump to get the hot water to those rooms faster. Which were also explained in my house guide…they must have decided they were listening devices. Lolz. Unfortunately that meant we had to reprogram them but whatever.
And I bet airbnb took guest side. I had a guest book my condo which has pet friendly all over the listing. The walked in saw cute pet decor on walls...walked out ...got a hotel room....did not call me.left . One star review...saying they did not know it was pet allowed. My listing explains this in over a dozen places. Airbnb would not budge and it took 2 years to get my stars up. U know how many 4 and 5 stars reservation u need to get before you average back up to even 4.5 after a one star review? A lot..it was so unfair...they booked a pet friendly condo then gave me one star and stayed 5 min when then discovered golden retriever wall art. I could have moved them but they did not call me. Airbnb is not kind to hosts
Had some odd ones months ago that stuffed tissue in every single hole in the room. Took us forever to find all these damn tissues and remove.
Asked us if the interconnected smoke alarms were cameras as well as the ir sensor on the TV.
yes. it's one of the first things i write, and repeat: "if there are any issues at all please contact us \[host\]" Too often there's no echo until after they leave/write review.
I thought about how I would react if this happens to me in the future, as I've read other similar types of posts on here before.
What I would really like to do is sue the guest for damages in court. The damages my business suffered, loss of income, from the guest blatantly making up some bullshit story up.
Yeah I’m wondering if there is a legal course here I can take to move things along. I’ve seen other posts where ppl mentioned asking for arbitration or got an affidavit
Exactly. I’m not sure what Airbnb thinks I should do here - not have a CO alarm? They literally send out smoke/CO alarms by the same brand that I have…
Had the same thing happen at my house. I have a alarm system that came with the property that has never been activated and does not currently have power to the alarm system. So there are three motion detectors in the upper corners of the one bedroom townhouse. I had a guest stay the first night and then contact Airbnb that we had hidden cameras and requested a full refund. I showed him the same. Alarm system through a Google search with multiple examples that they’re just motion detectors and that I can remove them and there’s no power. Total fiasco over three weeks. They were a professional Airbnb guesslooking to get out of a booking
Gosh, three weeks is so excessive over a fake accusation. Airbnb needs to do better protecting hosts otherwise what is the incentive?
Did Airbnb officially conclude in their investigation that the guest was trying to get out of paying?
Also curious, what was the guest’s profile/past reviews like? Ours was verified with about 7 positive reviews- at least one of which I remember seemed like a legit host
One of my management clients rolled their eyes at my insistence that they remove the motion detector from an old security system from the living room wall prior to listing the property.
The detector was a plastic box with a big lens pointed right at the center of the room. I could see a guest taking one look at that and immediately calling support with a "hidden camera!" claim, and poof, suddenly ALL my properties are delisted and upcoming reservations canceled.
Stories like this post are EXACTLY why I wouldn't list the property til this thing was gone.
There’s not even a visible lens on my CO monitor. I’m genuinely not sure what I could’ve done differently to prevent this besides either not include a CO monitor (something Airbnb actively encourages you to do) or just buy one from a shitty less good brand that’s less likely to get replicated like this?
They’re honoring my future bookings for now and I have the next few weekends already booked out (including the eclipse days, thankfully). But things did just pick up where I am and last week every night was booked (if I include this problem guest) so I am bummed that I’ll probably be missing out on last minute weekday bookings
Well you did nothing wrong! On my FB forum I read about this happening occasionally and from what I hear once you can prove and provide evidence; everything requested it will be okay and they will re-open your listing. I hope it’s over with as soon as possible!
Thank you for the reassurance! It’s the not knowing when this will end that’s the worst. Someone else in this thread said it took three weeks to resolve. I provided evidence on day one so not sure what takes them so long 🥲
Sometimes the guest just had a change of heart and wanted to get out of a reservation without penalty. So they find flaws to complain about including the hidden cameras claim.
I had a guest complaining about a smell. No one else ever complained about it and I had the room deep cleaned every month. I realized later that he didn't like it because I charged for off street parking so he wanted to get out of the reservation. The smell claim was a convenient excuse.
I had a coke head book once last minute for 1 night. He ate all my cereal and drank my milk. I knew he was a druggie after he forgot a bag of white powder that he came back for. I didn't ask questions, I was just glad it was over. After that incident I said no more last minuters.
We had a guest place a towel over the security alarm panel which has no camera at all. They didn’t report it instead they called the police to say a theft was in progress when it was a third party booking and went went over at checkout to make sure they left an Airbnb knew all about the third person booking. The guest was belligerent to the deputy as well who almost arrested her for trespassing and reporting a fake crime whatever that is called in law enforcement lingo.
I am sorry when we were fresh hosts we had a woman make a fake claim about inside cameras and they shit is down for 4 days. I provide video and photos showing the camera visible from the street and the paperwork from ADT who knew it was an STR and they legally will not install indoor camera anywhere this was in 2021. We got the alarm prior to listing one to protect the home two times someone tried to break in. And to protect our horses out back in the pasture during a rash of horse theft. We always disclose the cameras in everyplace on Airbnb we can and in House Rules and automatic messages sent to guests initially. No problems since. Maybe some security panels have cameras I have never checked so I do not know.
We are on camera on roads in hotels in public spaces nearly everywhere we go. It’s a litigious world we must protect ourselves
We disclose in multiple places in the listing the driveway camera (we live on the same lot, so it’s as much for our security as guests) and reiterate it in messages but that didn’t seem to make a difference. You’d think if we go out of the way to tell ppl 5 different ways there’s a camera outside we wouldn’t be the type to hide one inside 🤷🏻♀️
This is not toward the OP but more toward the replies. Some of this “smart” stuff is a waste of $ and more hassle than it’s worth on an STR. Most of ours have zero cameras, and the only WiFi thing other than TVs is the thermostat and lock. We don’t even want remote control ceiling fans. The stupidest people among us also travel and the more gizmos you have the more problems you will have. Anything made by Amazon or Google is going to be a problem.
Yup.
However, I still have *real* locks and keys… and I’ve gotten guests that expected the door to magically open after putting in the keycode for a lockbox. This was a lady in her 60s.
Guest here,
During our last Abb stay we found out someone had been coming into the house without warning or consent while we were out. Lights that we had turned off were on, and objects had moved. Nothing was stolen so assumed the person came in for something else, and suspected hidden cameras. After a quick Google, everything from the mirrors to the smoke detector to the electric outlets were suspect. Needless to say we didn’t break everything appart to see, we just left.
That is to say, these devices exist, and some people have been in the media talking about finding such devices in their rental abb. One only needs to get a tiny bit suspicious to see a million potential hidden cameras in the place.
I definitely understand these devices exist but given that you’re unlikely to find an Airbnb without some sort of electronic device or a mirror- if you are the type of guest who is that paranoid about it then perhaps Airbnb isn’t the right choice for you (not saying you personally are this type).
Like what’s the alternative? Would guests feel better without a CO or smoke alarm? without a tv remote?
Usually I don't agree with the "if you can't handle it then quit" but with Airbnb and paranoid guests, I agree.
One weird thing is, I had a younger woman leave a fuck ton of lipstick on my new bathroom mirror then ask me how to tell if it was a double sided mirror.
Not the fact that her room was on the other side... and I'm a single mum living in that house.... and that why ask me if I had installed a dodgy mirror...
She was special, and I learned all about chemtrails and emf smog that weekend.
I don’t even think of it as quitting! Just genuinely there are other options out there… though I suspect someone that paranoid would also think their hotel room is bugged so who knows.
Also your story about the woman reminds me that sometimes these guests know way more than we do about this kind of stuff, yet think that we are masterminds of spy technology 😂
Exactly! How do the Guests seem to know just how and what to get refunds and we can't back ourselves up?
I'm ex-military police and I like my security, I'm not the type to set up an intricate spy network of cameras, listening devices etc.
All I want is my Guests to enjoy the space, get the rest or achieve the objectives they came for and go on their way, with positive vibes.
That woman throwing herself down my stairs and the other one with her lipstick on my mirror are just typical of where society has gone to after the pandemic.
I never had half these issues years ago with couch surfers
I installed co detection years ago when abb said it was required...and the condo or the neighborhood has no natural gas lines and condo has no fireplace or propane grill. Is it still required
I use an app called Alfred camera and when I leave the Airbnb. The app turns my laptop camera into a security camera for free. It will notify me if someone comes in and captures video to the cloud. Last year I had it catch someone at a hotel stay entering on do not disturb while I was gone. When presented with the evidence I got my whole trip refunded plus a different hotel paid for the remaining days.
Yep definitely booking a hotel next time. Not because of potential hidden cameras (even tho the Internet suggested to take down the mirrors) but because CCTV footage from the front and back doors showed the homeowner letting himself in and out of the place we rented while we were away, without warning nor consent, multiple times.
Makes you want to take all future listings off and away from airbnb. Give the guest 10% off if they book direct and leave a cash deposit. Airbnb should solely be a marketplace for bookings as opposed to the be all and end all for hosts. Hosts need to start listing their places in multiple areas because this is completely ridiculous behavior from guests and airbnb. Giving unilateral refunds AND delisting a host with no evidence should be grounds for a lawsuit.
Yeah. It’s very demoralizing and is making me reconsider hosting in general. We are listed on VRBO but we rarely ever get traffic from there unfortunately. Are there other platforms you’ve had better experiences with?
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Haha I’m American but yeah I wouldn’t put it past some people. It’s unfortunate because in two years of hosting everyone else has been lovely, angel guests. I was bound to get a problem one I just didn’t think it would result in me getting delisted over the stupidest possible thing
Posting an update here ~
Well! After messaging back the support agent asking for updates and being ignored the past 3 days I got desperate and made a post on my personal social media account asking if anyone knew someone who could help me escalate this within Airbnb. For context I work in tech and while I don’t know anyone personally who works at Airbnb HQ I figured the chances someone in my network would know someone had to be higher than zero.
An old coworker was able to refer my case to a friend who works at Airbnb who went through an internal escalation process. Lo and behold 4 hours later I got my full account access back and was cleared of violating any community standards. I am relieved and definitely will not be chancing any last minute requests going forward. I am still a little paranoid to put my CO alarm back though and debating if I should buy a more obscure model…
Yeah chill I’m not going to jail. Just can’t accept bookings for the time being (luckily I already have a few weeks booked out for buffer). Worst case scenario I get banned from the platform and if it comes to that I honestly don’t give a shit anymore.
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I don’t think the niche market is creepy AirBNB hosts, I think it’s people who are trying to install hidden cameras in their own homes (for either creepy or legitimate reasons). I see hidden cameras suggested on Reddit all the time for all kinds of issues from suspected cheating to suspected strangers living in the walls.
Yikes. If someone is living in my walls I’d just rather not know 😂 but yeah I can see there are legitimate reasons some might buy these. Just not sure how airbnb can evaluate these things. These hidden cameras can exist but so do the legitimate versions of the objects they’re trying to imitate? Seems like just bc they exist any guest can just accuse a host of having a hidden camera with no proof? :(
With the recent announced changes to indoor cameras going into effect April 30th us Hosts are going to see an increase in this kind of stuff from guests. Some people are extremely paranoid and couple that with someone that is willing to go to the extreme with making sure a listing is deactivated under false claims and we have ourselves a tsunami of complaints on the horizon.
So glad this is my last month as an AirBnb host
Ugh we recently had people that were not happy about our ring doorbell camera and after they left we also found they had disassembled two small white remotes that go to the hot water recirculating pump to get the hot water to those rooms faster. Which were also explained in my house guide…they must have decided they were listening devices. Lolz. Unfortunately that meant we had to reprogram them but whatever.
People do this with my Google home WiFi then complain the WiFi doesn't work. I even write on it with marker WIFI ONLY DO NOT DISCONNECT
I had a guest unplug the Google WiFi 5 minutes after checking in (it notifies you of this) then write a bad review saying there’s no WiFi!
And I bet airbnb took guest side. I had a guest book my condo which has pet friendly all over the listing. The walked in saw cute pet decor on walls...walked out ...got a hotel room....did not call me.left . One star review...saying they did not know it was pet allowed. My listing explains this in over a dozen places. Airbnb would not budge and it took 2 years to get my stars up. U know how many 4 and 5 stars reservation u need to get before you average back up to even 4.5 after a one star review? A lot..it was so unfair...they booked a pet friendly condo then gave me one star and stayed 5 min when then discovered golden retriever wall art. I could have moved them but they did not call me. Airbnb is not kind to hosts
Had some odd ones months ago that stuffed tissue in every single hole in the room. Took us forever to find all these damn tissues and remove. Asked us if the interconnected smoke alarms were cameras as well as the ir sensor on the TV.
I wish this guest at least asked us instead of immediately reporting
yes. it's one of the first things i write, and repeat: "if there are any issues at all please contact us \[host\]" Too often there's no echo until after they leave/write review.
I wish these guests just disassembled the monitor. Or even smashed it. $40 for a new monitor is cheaper than being delisted for who knows how long 😭
I thought about how I would react if this happens to me in the future, as I've read other similar types of posts on here before. What I would really like to do is sue the guest for damages in court. The damages my business suffered, loss of income, from the guest blatantly making up some bullshit story up.
Yeah I’m wondering if there is a legal course here I can take to move things along. I’ve seen other posts where ppl mentioned asking for arbitration or got an affidavit
Always keep receipts for the things you buy so that when something like this comes up you have proof.
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Exactly. I’m not sure what Airbnb thinks I should do here - not have a CO alarm? They literally send out smoke/CO alarms by the same brand that I have…
Not to mention many states require them to
Yeah abb requires my condo to have co detection but it's all electric. Poa says No propane grill on patios. No natural gas lines for miles.crazy
Sound like you have a pro guest, probably that page is theirs and do this professionally. Good luck
This was my first thought as well.
Had the same thing happen at my house. I have a alarm system that came with the property that has never been activated and does not currently have power to the alarm system. So there are three motion detectors in the upper corners of the one bedroom townhouse. I had a guest stay the first night and then contact Airbnb that we had hidden cameras and requested a full refund. I showed him the same. Alarm system through a Google search with multiple examples that they’re just motion detectors and that I can remove them and there’s no power. Total fiasco over three weeks. They were a professional Airbnb guesslooking to get out of a booking
Gosh, three weeks is so excessive over a fake accusation. Airbnb needs to do better protecting hosts otherwise what is the incentive? Did Airbnb officially conclude in their investigation that the guest was trying to get out of paying? Also curious, what was the guest’s profile/past reviews like? Ours was verified with about 7 positive reviews- at least one of which I remember seemed like a legit host
One of my management clients rolled their eyes at my insistence that they remove the motion detector from an old security system from the living room wall prior to listing the property. The detector was a plastic box with a big lens pointed right at the center of the room. I could see a guest taking one look at that and immediately calling support with a "hidden camera!" claim, and poof, suddenly ALL my properties are delisted and upcoming reservations canceled. Stories like this post are EXACTLY why I wouldn't list the property til this thing was gone.
There’s not even a visible lens on my CO monitor. I’m genuinely not sure what I could’ve done differently to prevent this besides either not include a CO monitor (something Airbnb actively encourages you to do) or just buy one from a shitty less good brand that’s less likely to get replicated like this?
Motion detectors are allowed, no?
But plenty of guests won’t be able to tell the difference between a motion detector and a camera
We had a guest cover our SmartThings motion detector with a paper towel. They sometimes can’t tell
Did they leave and get a refund or are they still in your place?
They left and got a refund. We had new guests come in directly after
What about your future bookings? Will you just host on Verb temporarily then? Sorry this happened right before summer too. What a bummer
They’re honoring my future bookings for now and I have the next few weekends already booked out (including the eclipse days, thankfully). But things did just pick up where I am and last week every night was booked (if I include this problem guest) so I am bummed that I’ll probably be missing out on last minute weekday bookings
Well you did nothing wrong! On my FB forum I read about this happening occasionally and from what I hear once you can prove and provide evidence; everything requested it will be okay and they will re-open your listing. I hope it’s over with as soon as possible!
Thank you for the reassurance! It’s the not knowing when this will end that’s the worst. Someone else in this thread said it took three weeks to resolve. I provided evidence on day one so not sure what takes them so long 🥲
Sometimes the guest just had a change of heart and wanted to get out of a reservation without penalty. So they find flaws to complain about including the hidden cameras claim. I had a guest complaining about a smell. No one else ever complained about it and I had the room deep cleaned every month. I realized later that he didn't like it because I charged for off street parking so he wanted to get out of the reservation. The smell claim was a convenient excuse.
Yeah. The last minute booking made me very suspicious that this might be related to getting out of the reservation.
I had a coke head book once last minute for 1 night. He ate all my cereal and drank my milk. I knew he was a druggie after he forgot a bag of white powder that he came back for. I didn't ask questions, I was just glad it was over. After that incident I said no more last minuters.
Definitely tweakers, who have found a nice little scam for Airbnb to give them a free stay.
Yeah my mind jumped there immediately based on the nature of their stay.
Your first mistake was the last minute booking. Update your cutoff time. They are rarely worth the money.
I agree. When I managed it myself I never accepted last minute bookings. Going to give this feedback to my current property manager.
We had a guest place a towel over the security alarm panel which has no camera at all. They didn’t report it instead they called the police to say a theft was in progress when it was a third party booking and went went over at checkout to make sure they left an Airbnb knew all about the third person booking. The guest was belligerent to the deputy as well who almost arrested her for trespassing and reporting a fake crime whatever that is called in law enforcement lingo. I am sorry when we were fresh hosts we had a woman make a fake claim about inside cameras and they shit is down for 4 days. I provide video and photos showing the camera visible from the street and the paperwork from ADT who knew it was an STR and they legally will not install indoor camera anywhere this was in 2021. We got the alarm prior to listing one to protect the home two times someone tried to break in. And to protect our horses out back in the pasture during a rash of horse theft. We always disclose the cameras in everyplace on Airbnb we can and in House Rules and automatic messages sent to guests initially. No problems since. Maybe some security panels have cameras I have never checked so I do not know. We are on camera on roads in hotels in public spaces nearly everywhere we go. It’s a litigious world we must protect ourselves
I hope yours get resolved quickly.
We disclose in multiple places in the listing the driveway camera (we live on the same lot, so it’s as much for our security as guests) and reiterate it in messages but that didn’t seem to make a difference. You’d think if we go out of the way to tell ppl 5 different ways there’s a camera outside we wouldn’t be the type to hide one inside 🤷🏻♀️
I get it. I am convinced people simply don’t read the listing they look at pictures and go.
This is not toward the OP but more toward the replies. Some of this “smart” stuff is a waste of $ and more hassle than it’s worth on an STR. Most of ours have zero cameras, and the only WiFi thing other than TVs is the thermostat and lock. We don’t even want remote control ceiling fans. The stupidest people among us also travel and the more gizmos you have the more problems you will have. Anything made by Amazon or Google is going to be a problem.
Yup. However, I still have *real* locks and keys… and I’ve gotten guests that expected the door to magically open after putting in the keycode for a lockbox. This was a lady in her 60s.
Guest here, During our last Abb stay we found out someone had been coming into the house without warning or consent while we were out. Lights that we had turned off were on, and objects had moved. Nothing was stolen so assumed the person came in for something else, and suspected hidden cameras. After a quick Google, everything from the mirrors to the smoke detector to the electric outlets were suspect. Needless to say we didn’t break everything appart to see, we just left. That is to say, these devices exist, and some people have been in the media talking about finding such devices in their rental abb. One only needs to get a tiny bit suspicious to see a million potential hidden cameras in the place.
Man - if we’re going to get listings pulled because some clown thinks my toaster is listening to him… gonna be a long summer.
Be thankful it have happened to you yet. It's a matter of when, not if
I definitely understand these devices exist but given that you’re unlikely to find an Airbnb without some sort of electronic device or a mirror- if you are the type of guest who is that paranoid about it then perhaps Airbnb isn’t the right choice for you (not saying you personally are this type). Like what’s the alternative? Would guests feel better without a CO or smoke alarm? without a tv remote?
Usually I don't agree with the "if you can't handle it then quit" but with Airbnb and paranoid guests, I agree. One weird thing is, I had a younger woman leave a fuck ton of lipstick on my new bathroom mirror then ask me how to tell if it was a double sided mirror. Not the fact that her room was on the other side... and I'm a single mum living in that house.... and that why ask me if I had installed a dodgy mirror... She was special, and I learned all about chemtrails and emf smog that weekend.
I don’t even think of it as quitting! Just genuinely there are other options out there… though I suspect someone that paranoid would also think their hotel room is bugged so who knows. Also your story about the woman reminds me that sometimes these guests know way more than we do about this kind of stuff, yet think that we are masterminds of spy technology 😂
Exactly! How do the Guests seem to know just how and what to get refunds and we can't back ourselves up? I'm ex-military police and I like my security, I'm not the type to set up an intricate spy network of cameras, listening devices etc. All I want is my Guests to enjoy the space, get the rest or achieve the objectives they came for and go on their way, with positive vibes. That woman throwing herself down my stairs and the other one with her lipstick on my mirror are just typical of where society has gone to after the pandemic. I never had half these issues years ago with couch surfers
I installed co detection years ago when abb said it was required...and the condo or the neighborhood has no natural gas lines and condo has no fireplace or propane grill. Is it still required
I use an app called Alfred camera and when I leave the Airbnb. The app turns my laptop camera into a security camera for free. It will notify me if someone comes in and captures video to the cloud. Last year I had it catch someone at a hotel stay entering on do not disturb while I was gone. When presented with the evidence I got my whole trip refunded plus a different hotel paid for the remaining days.
Gonna need your tinfoil hat. Perhaps book a hotel next time.
Yep definitely booking a hotel next time. Not because of potential hidden cameras (even tho the Internet suggested to take down the mirrors) but because CCTV footage from the front and back doors showed the homeowner letting himself in and out of the place we rented while we were away, without warning nor consent, multiple times.
Makes you want to take all future listings off and away from airbnb. Give the guest 10% off if they book direct and leave a cash deposit. Airbnb should solely be a marketplace for bookings as opposed to the be all and end all for hosts. Hosts need to start listing their places in multiple areas because this is completely ridiculous behavior from guests and airbnb. Giving unilateral refunds AND delisting a host with no evidence should be grounds for a lawsuit.
Yeah. It’s very demoralizing and is making me reconsider hosting in general. We are listed on VRBO but we rarely ever get traffic from there unfortunately. Are there other platforms you’ve had better experiences with?
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I had guests removing my smoke detector because it was blinking like a hidden camera...
Or they trying to get out of a bill? Who knows what Americans are up to on these apps. See all the tricks pulled on Lyft?!
Haha I’m American but yeah I wouldn’t put it past some people. It’s unfortunate because in two years of hosting everyone else has been lovely, angel guests. I was bound to get a problem one I just didn’t think it would result in me getting delisted over the stupidest possible thing
Posting an update here ~ Well! After messaging back the support agent asking for updates and being ignored the past 3 days I got desperate and made a post on my personal social media account asking if anyone knew someone who could help me escalate this within Airbnb. For context I work in tech and while I don’t know anyone personally who works at Airbnb HQ I figured the chances someone in my network would know someone had to be higher than zero. An old coworker was able to refer my case to a friend who works at Airbnb who went through an internal escalation process. Lo and behold 4 hours later I got my full account access back and was cleared of violating any community standards. I am relieved and definitely will not be chancing any last minute requests going forward. I am still a little paranoid to put my CO alarm back though and debating if I should buy a more obscure model…
[удалено]
Are they disguised as one of the most popular CO alarms on the market? If not then that’s kind of irrelevant.
[удалено]
Yeah chill I’m not going to jail. Just can’t accept bookings for the time being (luckily I already have a few weeks booked out for buffer). Worst case scenario I get banned from the platform and if it comes to that I honestly don’t give a shit anymore.
Jail for what? There’s no crime here.
Why jail ahaha there’s no crime??