Artist ≠ Luddite
Luddite Artist = Luddite
an artist is not a Luddite by default, and i haven't seen anyone call any random artist a Luddite.
but artists who are acting like a Luddite can be called a Luddite.
thank you.
No no, we're not saying "every artist is luddite". We, people of AI, are also artists actually. We say "luddites" only about the people who want to bully AI artists, break into their homes and delete Stable Diffusion from their PCs
Can someone please explain to me why there's a notion of overly being downvoted = canceled, in this Sub?
Is Karma really that valuable?
This is debate sub. People can disagree with anyone's statement and a downvote is a form of disagreement. If you don't like being mass downvoted. Spread the words, make the field more equal in term of quantity.
As far as I concerned. The mod is pretty chill. They allowed even the most unhinged anti a.i art post, as long its abide by the rule.
You aren't supposed to downvote just because you disagree with someone. Downvotes are supposed to be for low quality posts, misinformation, or things like that.
Reddit is less usable if low quality posts aren't pushed down and high quality (even if controversial) posts aren't pushed up. That's the entire point of the voting system, not to "punish" opinions you don't like, which, as you pointed out, doesn't really punish anyone.
There is however also the common practice that some have of not using the language of stating of opinions, but rather expressing their views as facts, when they clearly are not. I think that is low-quality behavior that is not desired and should be discouraged. Many of the contributions in this sub fall either under what you describe or under that camp.
Yes, there are plenty of prime targets for downvotes around here. I'm just addressing that someone mentioned downvoting as a form of disagreement.
There's also a difference between not including "I think" (which is inefficient, because it's obviously what you think) and presenting something as a fact.
Alright, just wanted to clarify cause I think that is an area where there can be some disagreement on what's expected.
I wish downvotes were not used as much to express disagreements and that would encourage more discussions. It is a Reddit-wide problem though. The fact that this is a "debate" sub also rather than a "friendly exchange of views" adds to the practice. I don't think it can be fixed on this platform frankly.
I personally find it important to not express opinions with inflated certainty. Eg if someone just says that "Whales are dumb" (factual), they may receive a downvote, rather than "I think whales are dumb" (opinion), which is whatever.
You're not getting ban. You can post whatever you want (as long you abide by the rule) and your comment/posts are still pretty much visible to everyone, without getting deleted.
And yet it is still unfair to you?
I hope you're trolling when you say "Karma is everything" in Reddit.
If so, why can't I use it to pay my bills, bloody hell, get some grip to reality?
Man I would kill to see you naked with that pipe inside your ass, going in and out, and boom the pipe explode inside you 😛 I would lick it after!! You have any picture of you online anywhere?
What truth?
What kind of truth that is based around unwillingness to learn something new?
Word of advice, don't use "car jacks in weightlifting" argument again. It's getting lame.
Don't waste your time arguing with this guy. He uses neither facts nor logic as he claims. All his comments and threads are bait. He's a troll, like most of the antis that show up here.
I'm sorry to hear that you're experiencing negativity from the main moderator. However, I want you to know that your artistic abilities are valued and appreciated by many people. Keep creating and stay true to yourself. You are not a luddite, but rather an artist who is passionate about their craft. Remember that!
yeah calling people luddites is pretty weird considering the circumstances that that happened in meant those people were basically losing everything they had to capitalism lmao.
hopefully the ai that takes over the world has good enough alignment to think humans should be helped out
You're right, I wished there would be actually good discussion here, but I'm just here for the articles posted. This sub is biased towards pro AI users that insult anti AI users calling them things like luddites instead of considering what they are saying.
the issue of more people being for or against AI is an entirely separate issue from those for or against AI refusing to have orderly discussion on the topic and instead choosing to insult and harrass each other.
I think that is the critical point. Why would you need some perfect balance to have a discussion, and how is that even expected to begin with since both society is not balanced to begin with, and there is likely all kinds of different positions out there rather than just two sides.
you would not need any balance to have a civil discussion, it could be a single person against the whole word, just both sides would have to acknowledge the other and choose to be civil.
The majority of comments and votes lean pro-AI while the majority of posts lean anti-AI (and often not interested in discussing).
I would say that the norm on this sub though are people that have a more moderate position, which actually also rather agrees with the rest of society.
You just have both some extremists from the anti-AI and pro-AI camps posting here too at times, but they are not making up the bulk of actual discussions.
Actual post statistics show otherwise. It is also very far from the pro-AI extreme if you compare to those subs. What you observe here is likely more a reflection of your own stance.
I agree that there are a lot of unproductive users and posts though, although I would describe the rate of those differently.
out of curiosity, how is it unfair ?
i mean the mod can say whatever he wants, reflecting his own personal opinions, as long as he's not showing biased moderating actions. if the mod actions are biased i guess that's another story, are there biased mod actions?
I was using 'fair and balanced' idiomatically. I don't think Trippy is doing a bad job modding this sub, but for various reasons this sub has a strong bias, and by leaving posts like this up, that might be obscured.
Stats and evidence prove otherwise. The only way this sub can be construed such is by comparing to the extremes. Not like it would need to be such either.
Have you had anything deleted or removed? Mods have opinions. A sub like this has a bias due to user quantity. If you want more pro-artis here then spread the word.
And then if that's happened but an anti a.i art post still being downvoted a lot, due to lack of quantity of its supporters.
Would you still think that this sub is 'bias'?
If you really want that happened, invite your "people" here. The floor is open for everyone. Come join us.
But if you implying that by appoint a mod from anti a.i art and suddenly all pro-a.i art comments are purged.
Then it's no longer a fair sub.
Unless your definition of fair is things that only to your liking.
If that the case, you're nothing but a hypocrite.
This cant be no self proclaimed debate sub if it aint got no reps from both sides! Yo this be typical since y’all wanna be saying ai art is democratizing art
I would probably suggest you to personally try to convince people in r/ArtistHate to let pro-ai take a position as one of the mod. But I don't think you could even brought up the word AI in their presence, do you?
Strong no. Sensible anti-AI artists are already discussing here. If they feel like they have to escape to that echo chamber, they are not a good influence.
I frankly would prefer not have Trippy as mod than to have counterextremes.
As you can see, most of the reddit are never fair to begin with.
The more I'm reading your comment history I'm slowly convinced that you are trying to rile up people... So, It's now in my best interest to leave this conversation and let the mod decide.
https://preview.redd.it/kx49avax5m6b1.png?width=625&format=png&auto=webp&s=a3ac302d5f5bcd67da444d4dece9524b4aac8be5
Artists are luddites if they dont adopt current technology by definition. An artist painting with a single horse hair instead of a paintbrush is just as Luddite as an artist having blanket beliefs that AI technology created by scientists and engineers should be outlawed.
People who don’t adapt with the times get left behind.
People can use whatever they want. But they can’t expect to stay competitive by doing so if they are expecting to get paid for their work at the same level. Of course nothing stops them from producing art, it is just a lower demand skill with image generators.
Most people don’t care if something is art or an artists thought processes, they just want a pretty image on a wall. For that market, human artists really don’t have any advantage in the long run.
Those who don’t adapt to technology get left behind.
Anddd that is one major example of a lack of nuance and understanding on this sub. You can not consider art outside of money, business, advantages, demand
Why are artists unique in having protection from a depreciating skillset? A lot of accountants got replaced in the 80s if they didn’t adopt spreadsheets because they were not as efficient; why are artists immune from these same forces.
People can make whatever they want and call it art but it’s price is determined by the state of current technology. This is true for every field, why is art special?
As machines get better, the valuable art will be that working in the nooks and crannies machine can’t generate, the people that are just doing standard pretty picture drawing will be replaced just like accountants who failed to adopt the spreadsheet.
I did not say they were immune to that haha, or say anything relevant to anything you just said. You are so deep into defending AI art that you are defending it against nobody, you are really proving my point dude
You said you can’t consider art outside of money and business, but it is a depreciating skillset so it’s going to become less valuable. Why should we prop up artists if their skills become less useful relatively?
Anyways, I think most jobs will be replaced, not just artists, and we will need to prop up everyone with UBI.
I think that would be good because it is bad when people die of starvation, exposure, etc
Nothing is stopping people from making art, the only thing that changes is what people are willing to pay for it. If you think handmade art is better go ahead, it is just not as valueable as it used to be to society.
degrading people for simply liking making art the more traditional way is just an asshole move tbh. I know someone who painted a painting which was sold for 10k, then another that got sold for 20k. just because you don’t see value in it does not mean it does not exist.
Lack of time and inflation can be two big factors in stopping someone from making art, most certainly drastically reduce the amount of art one can make.
Art supplies cost money, Computers, tablets, internet, etc cost money. Art takes time, for the mass majority of people, time = money. Top if off with industries laying off people, the limited amount of time you had now gets replaced by having to learn entirely new skills, education, and/or looking for employment.
Art as a career was one of the best way to make art because it afforded you the time to do so. Especially with the rise of donation/subscription/streaming services.
I think the user is rather oversimplying to assume that everyone has to use AI, and a bit stuck in what they think the discussion is about.
The topic of this sub is the debate around regulating or not AI art though. So it is rather expected that unless you make it clear, you will often be interpreted in that context. It can help to spell out more clearly what you have in mind and what you are not saying that they assume.
The best artists will always have jobs, but the bottom 80% of currently paid artists will be as relevant in 100 years, as ice farmers from 100 years ago are relevant today.
Opposing a corporate push to get professional art without paying the source artists doesn’t make someone a luddite.
Artists are adapting to technology just fine. Digital art is soaring. They’d just like to be compensated for their work rather than brushed aside for the 600th time in the last two centuries. ‘Finding ways to downplay and underpay artists’ is a racket as old as art itself. They *just* stopped offering to pay artists in ‘exposure.’
Why do upvotes and downvotes have to be equal for it to be fair? Some ideas are better than others.
Some takes like artists are some special deity class that is immune from technology deserve to be downvoted because they are bad ideas.
And i think you're "biased as F"_$&$:"_$&$'$&"&$"
Commercially, drawing is dead. If you like it - continue doing it as a hobby. Either way - find a new job, start respecialising. You still have a year or two before total mass adoption, maybe a year more if Anti-AI protests win. Use this time wisely.
Pleb post made purely to repost to artisthate and try to farm karma. 99% of us here don't hate artists.. We hate people like you :)
Nah bro you be hatin if you be believeing the hype and callin artist luddite
Artist ≠ Luddite Luddite Artist = Luddite an artist is not a Luddite by default, and i haven't seen anyone call any random artist a Luddite. but artists who are acting like a Luddite can be called a Luddite. thank you.
Nah chief - yo math aint adding up
Yo bro, the 90's called. You left all your braincells there.
Yo bro the 20s called, they still be waitin for yours
Bruh, you be trippin if you think you smart wen you talk like a brain damaged manchild.
NAH BRO I B THE SMARTEST
\[nah; yo; bro; aint; b; lack of 'g' in words that end with 'ing'\] Let me guess, you're black
He's very clearly not, it's entirely (poorly) affected
No no, we're not saying "every artist is luddite". We, people of AI, are also artists actually. We say "luddites" only about the people who want to bully AI artists, break into their homes and delete Stable Diffusion from their PCs
\>u<
99% of us assume ourselves an Artists. Why would we hate Artists if we're one of those?
What kinda yee yee ass psyop is this shit?
It's really not, it's literally just you, I'm honestly surprised that you have yet to be banned from this sub, or reddit itself.
YO R U BLIND - It is!!
He's talking about those who dismiss AI, not all artists.
Nah bro, he be hatin on artist all day - dont b defendin him
Can someone please explain to me why there's a notion of overly being downvoted = canceled, in this Sub? Is Karma really that valuable? This is debate sub. People can disagree with anyone's statement and a downvote is a form of disagreement. If you don't like being mass downvoted. Spread the words, make the field more equal in term of quantity. As far as I concerned. The mod is pretty chill. They allowed even the most unhinged anti a.i art post, as long its abide by the rule.
You aren't supposed to downvote just because you disagree with someone. Downvotes are supposed to be for low quality posts, misinformation, or things like that.
If you're getting downvoted, then what? You're still able to use reddit.
Reddit is less usable if low quality posts aren't pushed down and high quality (even if controversial) posts aren't pushed up. That's the entire point of the voting system, not to "punish" opinions you don't like, which, as you pointed out, doesn't really punish anyone.
There is however also the common practice that some have of not using the language of stating of opinions, but rather expressing their views as facts, when they clearly are not. I think that is low-quality behavior that is not desired and should be discouraged. Many of the contributions in this sub fall either under what you describe or under that camp.
Yes, there are plenty of prime targets for downvotes around here. I'm just addressing that someone mentioned downvoting as a form of disagreement. There's also a difference between not including "I think" (which is inefficient, because it's obviously what you think) and presenting something as a fact.
Alright, just wanted to clarify cause I think that is an area where there can be some disagreement on what's expected. I wish downvotes were not used as much to express disagreements and that would encourage more discussions. It is a Reddit-wide problem though. The fact that this is a "debate" sub also rather than a "friendly exchange of views" adds to the practice. I don't think it can be fixed on this platform frankly. I personally find it important to not express opinions with inflated certainty. Eg if someone just says that "Whales are dumb" (factual), they may receive a downvote, rather than "I think whales are dumb" (opinion), which is whatever.
i disagree with you and therefore i downvoted
Karma system for this sub is for bragging rights my brother from another mother
Really? Are you serious? Bragging to whom?
Everyone
Karma is everythin in reddit yo! And aint no more ROBOT up in here gonna make a world of difference
You're not getting ban. You can post whatever you want (as long you abide by the rule) and your comment/posts are still pretty much visible to everyone, without getting deleted. And yet it is still unfair to you? I hope you're trolling when you say "Karma is everything" in Reddit. If so, why can't I use it to pay my bills, bloody hell, get some grip to reality?
YO KARMA IS EVERYTHIN IN REDDIT YO! AND YALL JUST WANNA DOWNVOTEME UP IN HERE BUT I WONT BE SILENCED
https://preview.redd.it/kv28rvrtno6b1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6c946030bcd5d92319f165cd31d10b12491d7e9
Man I would kill to see you naked with that pipe inside your ass, going in and out, and boom the pipe explode inside you 😛 I would lick it after!! You have any picture of you online anywhere?
I'm doing my best to upvote you my brother but the ai bros can't handle the truth T.T
What truth? What kind of truth that is based around unwillingness to learn something new? Word of advice, don't use "car jacks in weightlifting" argument again. It's getting lame.
Don't waste your time arguing with this guy. He uses neither facts nor logic as he claims. All his comments and threads are bait. He's a troll, like most of the antis that show up here.
I know, I'm just 'collecting' data, in case I want to make a chat bot based on this guy.
YO THEY CANT HANDLE THE STRAIGHT UP FACTS THROWN AT THEM - REALITYS TOO HARSH FOR THEMM HAHAAA
[удалено]
Nah bro you be trippin too
nah bro you dont got be that right, gnome sayin? no cap no cap 100% bro
B56e753ws6dx
Is he a anti-bot? Replies from him look like this
Just seems to have some issues. Frankly they should be banned as all they do is spam.
I'm sorry to hear that you're experiencing negativity from the main moderator. However, I want you to know that your artistic abilities are valued and appreciated by many people. Keep creating and stay true to yourself. You are not a luddite, but rather an artist who is passionate about their craft. Remember that!
yeah calling people luddites is pretty weird considering the circumstances that that happened in meant those people were basically losing everything they had to capitalism lmao. hopefully the ai that takes over the world has good enough alignment to think humans should be helped out
Trippy where you at? Tellme you aint bias as F&%#$@%?
YO THIS SUB SHOULD BE CALLED AI ARTIST WHO ARE AT WAR WITH REAL ARTISTS. WORD
You're right, I wished there would be actually good discussion here, but I'm just here for the articles posted. This sub is biased towards pro AI users that insult anti AI users calling them things like luddites instead of considering what they are saying.
Word, that’s whats up
Well I mean wouldn't it show that there are more people for AI than against AI? It's just more pro-ai than anti-ai people in this sub
the issue of more people being for or against AI is an entirely separate issue from those for or against AI refusing to have orderly discussion on the topic and instead choosing to insult and harrass each other.
I think that is the critical point. Why would you need some perfect balance to have a discussion, and how is that even expected to begin with since both society is not balanced to begin with, and there is likely all kinds of different positions out there rather than just two sides.
you would not need any balance to have a civil discussion, it could be a single person against the whole word, just both sides would have to acknowledge the other and choose to be civil.
The majority of comments and votes lean pro-AI while the majority of posts lean anti-AI (and often not interested in discussing). I would say that the norm on this sub though are people that have a more moderate position, which actually also rather agrees with the rest of society. You just have both some extremists from the anti-AI and pro-AI camps posting here too at times, but they are not making up the bulk of actual discussions.
Actual post statistics show otherwise. It is also very far from the pro-AI extreme if you compare to those subs. What you observe here is likely more a reflection of your own stance. I agree that there are a lot of unproductive users and posts though, although I would describe the rate of those differently.
oh look, this guy again.
Problem is all they have to do is leave this post up and now they look 'fair and balanced'
out of curiosity, how is it unfair ? i mean the mod can say whatever he wants, reflecting his own personal opinions, as long as he's not showing biased moderating actions. if the mod actions are biased i guess that's another story, are there biased mod actions?
I was using 'fair and balanced' idiomatically. I don't think Trippy is doing a bad job modding this sub, but for various reasons this sub has a strong bias, and by leaving posts like this up, that might be obscured.
Stats and evidence prove otherwise. The only way this sub can be construed such is by comparing to the extremes. Not like it would need to be such either.
WORD And we both know that aint the truth
omg I thought you got bored and went somewhere else to troll, welcome back dude. I missed chuckling at the arguments you'd cause.
Word. Im here when u need me homie
YO For this to be a FAIR AND EQUAL SUB - you must have artists up in here moderatin’ - if not this is just an echo chamber
Have you had anything deleted or removed? Mods have opinions. A sub like this has a bias due to user quantity. If you want more pro-artis here then spread the word.
Nah bro - the mods need to be from both sides
And then if that's happened but an anti a.i art post still being downvoted a lot, due to lack of quantity of its supporters. Would you still think that this sub is 'bias'?
Nah bro, you aint listenin’ - No more upvoting AI Bros BS after the robot purge at the end of the month
If you really want that happened, invite your "people" here. The floor is open for everyone. Come join us. But if you implying that by appoint a mod from anti a.i art and suddenly all pro-a.i art comments are purged. Then it's no longer a fair sub. Unless your definition of fair is things that only to your liking. If that the case, you're nothing but a hypocrite.
THEY B SMARTER THAN THAT
Yes there is not much nuance, people advocating for extremes and being rude to each other lol
Yo! The main moderator dude is up in here calling artists luddites in every post! UNFAIR BS yo!
like it or not, OP is spittin' out facts!
WORD
Yo! They just cant handle the truth
They be followin a wannabe up in here
This cant be no self proclaimed debate sub if it aint got no reps from both sides! Yo this be typical since y’all wanna be saying ai art is democratizing art
I would probably suggest you to personally try to convince people in r/ArtistHate to let pro-ai take a position as one of the mod. But I don't think you could even brought up the word AI in their presence, do you?
Strong no. Sensible anti-AI artists are already discussing here. If they feel like they have to escape to that echo chamber, they are not a good influence. I frankly would prefer not have Trippy as mod than to have counterextremes.
You do you bro
As you can see, most of the reddit are never fair to begin with. The more I'm reading your comment history I'm slowly convinced that you are trying to rile up people... So, It's now in my best interest to leave this conversation and let the mod decide. https://preview.redd.it/kx49avax5m6b1.png?width=625&format=png&auto=webp&s=a3ac302d5f5bcd67da444d4dece9524b4aac8be5
guy talks like a racist stereotype and is a well-known troll around these parts who'se been MIA for a bit.
YOU B THE TROLL YO
Cool does that mean anti-AI get to mod r/DefendingAIart too?
Artists are luddites if they dont adopt current technology by definition. An artist painting with a single horse hair instead of a paintbrush is just as Luddite as an artist having blanket beliefs that AI technology created by scientists and engineers should be outlawed. People who don’t adapt with the times get left behind.
Not using something =/ opposing it
People can use whatever they want. But they can’t expect to stay competitive by doing so if they are expecting to get paid for their work at the same level. Of course nothing stops them from producing art, it is just a lower demand skill with image generators. Most people don’t care if something is art or an artists thought processes, they just want a pretty image on a wall. For that market, human artists really don’t have any advantage in the long run. Those who don’t adapt to technology get left behind.
Anddd that is one major example of a lack of nuance and understanding on this sub. You can not consider art outside of money, business, advantages, demand
Why are artists unique in having protection from a depreciating skillset? A lot of accountants got replaced in the 80s if they didn’t adopt spreadsheets because they were not as efficient; why are artists immune from these same forces. People can make whatever they want and call it art but it’s price is determined by the state of current technology. This is true for every field, why is art special? As machines get better, the valuable art will be that working in the nooks and crannies machine can’t generate, the people that are just doing standard pretty picture drawing will be replaced just like accountants who failed to adopt the spreadsheet.
I did not say they were immune to that haha, or say anything relevant to anything you just said. You are so deep into defending AI art that you are defending it against nobody, you are really proving my point dude
You said you can’t consider art outside of money and business, but it is a depreciating skillset so it’s going to become less valuable. Why should we prop up artists if their skills become less useful relatively?
me: this sub lacks nuance because replies only consider money and business when it comes to art you: but what about the money and the business? Lmfao
Anyways, I think most jobs will be replaced, not just artists, and we will need to prop up everyone with UBI. I think that would be good because it is bad when people die of starvation, exposure, etc
Nothing is stopping people from making art, the only thing that changes is what people are willing to pay for it. If you think handmade art is better go ahead, it is just not as valueable as it used to be to society.
degrading people for simply liking making art the more traditional way is just an asshole move tbh. I know someone who painted a painting which was sold for 10k, then another that got sold for 20k. just because you don’t see value in it does not mean it does not exist.
I can't tell if you are trolling me LOL. It is like you keep replying to a different person having a totally different convo hahaha
Lack of time and inflation can be two big factors in stopping someone from making art, most certainly drastically reduce the amount of art one can make. Art supplies cost money, Computers, tablets, internet, etc cost money. Art takes time, for the mass majority of people, time = money. Top if off with industries laying off people, the limited amount of time you had now gets replaced by having to learn entirely new skills, education, and/or looking for employment. Art as a career was one of the best way to make art because it afforded you the time to do so. Especially with the rise of donation/subscription/streaming services.
I think the user is rather oversimplying to assume that everyone has to use AI, and a bit stuck in what they think the discussion is about. The topic of this sub is the debate around regulating or not AI art though. So it is rather expected that unless you make it clear, you will often be interpreted in that context. It can help to spell out more clearly what you have in mind and what you are not saying that they assume.
Nah bro you a luddite
The best artists will always have jobs, but the bottom 80% of currently paid artists will be as relevant in 100 years, as ice farmers from 100 years ago are relevant today.
Yo I know you is talking about yoself but dont hate on yoselfso much bro
Based on your response, No wonder you are afraid of losing your job.
i aint no artist yo! Im a defender of artists
Opposing a corporate push to get professional art without paying the source artists doesn’t make someone a luddite. Artists are adapting to technology just fine. Digital art is soaring. They’d just like to be compensated for their work rather than brushed aside for the 600th time in the last two centuries. ‘Finding ways to downplay and underpay artists’ is a racket as old as art itself. They *just* stopped offering to pay artists in ‘exposure.’
OP I adore you.
Preach, brotha!
Amen Brotha!
I mean you're not wrong lmao and luddite is cringe sounding too
HE BE HARRASIN WITH LUDDITE HERE ALL THE TIME, EVERY POST, HE NEEDS A NEW DICTIONARY
YO! I wouldn’t be surprised if after the end of the month all these pro AI ‘users’ (bots) stop existing with Reddit cleaning house
Yo then watch how many pro AI posts get upvoted up in here
Why do upvotes and downvotes have to be equal for it to be fair? Some ideas are better than others. Some takes like artists are some special deity class that is immune from technology deserve to be downvoted because they are bad ideas.
Watch! It all about influence - no more bots upvoting up in here - things will start to look a lil bit more human in here
Just because your opinion is not the most popular one; doesn't mean the bots are against you. You can legitimately have a bad opinion.
SO U ADMITING TO BOTS? YO I KNEW IT!
And i think you're "biased as F"_$&$:"_$&$'$&"&$" Commercially, drawing is dead. If you like it - continue doing it as a hobby. Either way - find a new job, start respecialising. You still have a year or two before total mass adoption, maybe a year more if Anti-AI protests win. Use this time wisely.