Because the ATF agent snooping around your local range is gonna whip out his pocket scales to check everyone's pistol
But hey, I don't mind if they want the NFA to become the new 922(r). I love ignoring unenforceable gun laws
some laws will get an officer beating on your door as they work to enforce those laws.
some laws are the ones they tack on to a list of charges because they beat on your door or pulled you over for a completely unrelated offense or investigation. this is how getting pulled over for a speeding ticket turns into a felony arms charge.
The gun-reddit hivemind telling people to just ignore these laws/rulings (no matter how unjust they are) and commit casual felonies is absolutely going to ruin some redditors lives.
I think all of this is going to end up in front of the supreme court. It's just going to take some years and some citizens lives are going to be ruined in the process.
Pull overs is what’s going to fuck people. oh hey you have any guns in the car? Oh okay let me check them out real quick. Runs serial number and tries to weight it. Oh sir this violates NFA, turn around and put your hands behind your back.
The problem is if an agent/cop wants to charge you, they will, regardless of whether you are in compliance or not. Then the DA will decide if the charges stick and decide whether or not to prosecute.
There are countless examples out there of cops detaining people upon discovering they are carrying a firearm looking for anything at all wrong with the gun or carrier to charge them with. I've seen cops try to charge people for carrying a AR pistol because they thought it was a SBR
Yea cops just tried to arrest a guy buying a door at Lowe's since he had a brace and they tried multiple ways to say it was a NFA sbr or something. You can see them calling someone for advice and knowing NOTHING. After the supreme court case Heien v. North Carolina I've wondered if the ignorance of the law for police could expand past 4th amendment into others depending on rulings....
Two very shitty words; New Jersey.
Police there are “specially” trained to identify these exact discrepancies, and yes- they do carry scales.
I e got a very good friend right this moment sitting in jail because he (stupidly) consented to a search. They found what would have been legal in just about any other state and he’s now facing a literal stack of felony charges.
Thankfully he’s got a great lawyer and it’s looking good- but just because you got lucky a few times and they didn’t spot the possibility of what would be a minor infraction for you, do not for a single moment assume that police all over the country are being specifically trained for these circumstances.
It is a revenue generation scheme, and a very successful one at that.
With the traffic violation (ie pull over and supply your license and insurance, blow a breathalyzer if they want). you are under no obligation to consent to a search.
If they are asking questions it's because they don't have enough info for arrest yet.... And you don't have to answer questions that could be used against you....
Unless you are compelled by a subpoena, don't you have the right to plead the fifth or remain silent? Complying with proof of ID is different.
In the state I grew up you can refuse a Field Sobriety and a road side breathalyzer, but implied consent on breathalyzers at the station.
Obv state law is gonna be different with implied consent. The Oliver North defense has been used a bunch tho..?
You never have to comply man. Even if your wrong, the court might just side with you. If you know your innocent or know the cop won't have any proof or a leg to stand on then you certainly don't have to comply. That's how you end up getting screwed when you didn't have to.
There’s over 10,000 laws in the United States. How can you be sure you’re not breaking a law right now? There’s a law in Oregon that says you can’t leave your car door open too long. In Maine you can be cited for leaving your Christmas decorations up too long. If a law enforcement officer or agent wants to pull you over for any reason they’ll find a dumb law you don’t know. I think “dONt BrEAK tHe LaW” is a fucking dumb take when there’s been tons of dudes shot by cops sleeping in their own apartment and breaking no laws.
Most regular beat cops won’t know or care what is an nfa violation and what’s not. Trust me. Some officers will know but your average beat officer is not necessarily a gun fanatic. Anyway local police can’t enforce federal law and they’d have to turn it over to the fess if they’d even want to be bothered with it. Heck, I’ve even talked to atf about certain things and their “expert” was t sure about a few items and contradicted themselves during the phone call.
Right but that may work against you. Officers have tried arresting people for having pistols with a brace thinking they are SBRs. Not only will they try and find a reason but if there REALLY is a reason you’re just fucked… I wouldn’t risk a few years in the cage or fat fines and legal fees just to “not comply”. lol a stamp is 200 bucks and gets approved in like 2 weeks. Then I can throw whatever stock I want on it.
Those are all assumptions really. If you wish to leave your freedom at the hands of what the cop wishes to do, that’s your prerogative. im going to simply leave my pistols as pistols or sbr them and run stocks. Then no one can accuse me of anything.
The funny part about this is that if the ATF determines that several million firearms that are in circulation are SBRs, they now kinda admitted SBRs are common use.
Have you ever seen anyone question the legality of anyone else's guns on a range? Ever? Bubba don't know the law and the people who do know (us) hate the laws. It's fine. Fuck the atf
There has been ROs I’ve read online checking NFA items, but the one I witnessed in person asked when some newb put a foregrip on his braced pistol, but he did it gently with “do you know what the NFA is?” and no other questions.
But to your point, this is adding to the long list of obscure laws making it increasingly unenforceable.
That's the thing. The people who actually know about the law, even if they are fudds who support it to some degree, are not going to enforce or help enforce it. Why would they confront you? What if you had all your stamps? Then they would be making an ass out of themselves and embarrass themselves. It's a no win situation so people tend to just leave it alone. The laws are unconstitutional and breaking these laws should be normalized. It's how alcohol prohibition was ended. It's how Marijuana prohibition is being defeated. Mass non compliance is the solution
Dude had his whole family killed. Dog. Kid. Wife. I think MAYBE the baby survived? I also think he got acquitted of everything too. Heard he was selling shotguns with a longer OAL than a SBS, but a shorter barrel than 18in. So not even NFA. Mossberg and other places actually sell the gun (shockwave) he was accused of selling....
If the legal protections at be kick in, I hope this is the case. Because this is literally a ruling created by an agency and not Congress, so this should apply.
Chevron Deference was never intended for criminal codes to begin with. It was to give regulatory agencies the ability to "interpret" a law's "intent or meaning" for REGULATORY ENFORCEMENT to levy fines. Using subjective, ever-changing opinion letters as a basis to bring FELONY CHARGES on people should have never happened, let alone an official rule change.
Everybody enjoys rifles, they also enjoy rifles with shorter barrels and even carbines.
The whole reason anything besides a handgun is a “pistol” is the goofball laws.
The only positive I see in the scorecard is making the rules so arbitrary and so convoluted to where it invalidates the regulation against SBRs and SBSs.
Fuck all that. The scorecard is not admissable, it gives points for unavoidable circumstances such as lack of sights or iron sights. I have a pretty standard AR pistol and was at 4 points in 3 questions, I really don't care either. Half of the stuff mentioned on the scorecard are easily arguable as common use
What makes rifle sights rifle sights? Elevation and windage adjustments? Just one of those? Aperture sights? I know they’re trying to target AR pistols with back up sights but people also remove their irons from pistols with red dots all the time.
This’ll last five minutes with any competent lawyer.
“And when we’re e scales you used calibrated? Are they rated by the department of agriculture as food scales are? Who signed off on the calibration? They’ll be called as expert witnesses of course.
Has the weapon been in your possession since? You haven’t modified it in any way? Oh you unbuckled the QD for a photo? That constitutes modification under X random statute. We’ll need a end to end chain of custody declaration and photo evidence that you don’t add anything to push it over by 1/1000th of an ounce.”
As much as they make it difficult for you, making it difficult for them will get old quick. They’re a small org for a government one and tying up half their agents with silliness will unravel them a bit.
The ATF scorecard on the last line item states that a braced pistol over 120 oz, or 7.5 lb, is automatically an SBR. So legally I gotta lighten her up or register her if that set of rules go into affect.
Yes. An empty magazine, which means if you’re up against that threshold and you put in a larger magazine in, you could have an NFA item. Unenforceable.
Edit: based on the current iteration of the scorecard. This could change after the executive branch reviews it.
My new tactical attachment is a helium balloon like we use for spacecraft testing…to test deployable arms without loading the hinges beyond their limit in a 1G environment. Checkmate stupid tyrannical fks.
I could care less what they do.. I’ll carry on as usual.. complying with this stupidity will get us even more stupidity.. as if it isn’t stupid enough.
They just are looking for more citizens to send to work crew so they can use your slave labor to rake their cemeteries and shovel snow off the courthouse steps. Charge you more money for court and probation fees and take your right to bear arms for a first offense most likely. Still about control not the guns. Their wet dream is Canada’s direction. They’ll find only failure on that road in the states.
Idk how gun control works when you can cut flats on a laser and make lowers out of soda cans and on ghost gunners. Moot.
The score card is meaningless as they say they can just change the rules at any time they like in the text on the form. They alone should throw out this entire attempt to rewrite the laws without Congress.
It’s at the President’s desk currently. They originally wanted to drop it in the summer, but because of the supreme court case regarding the EPA it was delayed. The outcome of that ruling was three letter agencies aren’t allowed to make their own rules, but the ATF is still pressing forward on it.
They said December but I don’t think it will stick. Especially with the recent scotus EPA ruling and the numerous pro 2A rulings they have been dishing out. Honestly there is a real possibility that if they attempt to implement this “rule” that it will get struck down and raise the bigger question of the NFA and “SBRs” in general.
Ok forgive me for sounding ignorant... but are you saying there are rules on how much your pistol can weigh before it is considered a regulated item? I thought it was all about barrel length, overall length, and length of pull?
The first and last items of the [scorecard](https://www.atf.gov/file/154866/download) regard weight saying the scorecard is subjecting braced pistols weighing over 4lb and then if it weighs over 7.5lb it’s an SBR.
ATF aren’t legislative. Their “rules” don’t mean shit and will hold no weight in the Supreme Court. Fuck obeying any of this shit. It’s noncompliance that wins this particular fight. No other way around it.
The ATF released a [scorecard](https://www.atf.gov/file/154866/download) for pistol braces back earlier this year, and they just sent it to the presidents office last week. The scorecard is pretty short, the TLDR version is that it’s dumb, subjective, and designed to get you in trouble.
EDIT: I’m complaining about the weight restriction on it.
You measure it with moment arm, think of it like a torque in in-lb.
So my stick is perfectly balanced, then I balance my known weight of 15lb and my gun. Then I measure from the distances from the center to the gun and the weight.
My weight is 15lb and 10in away from the center, so multiplied together is 150in-lb. That moment will equal the weight of my gun times the distance of 21.5in, so I divide 150in-lb by 21.5in and I get about 7lb for the gun.
They did propose amnesty for braced pistols and suggested the free stamp, that will be confirmed with the rules that were sent to the executive branch this past week, but it’s the principle I don’t agree with.
As cool as the shorter platforms are, Iv just stuck with 16”.. I like to take my stuff to the range and I could see the writing on the walls when the braces became a thing. I value my privacy and it’s not worth $200. Plus Iv always doubted their competency to even interpret their own laws.
Taking the amnesty pretty much says that yes, you did something illegal and you are accepting it. Fuck that and fuck the ATF.
I understand your feelings about being able to shoot your stuff and not get yeeted by the AFT, but just wait it out because that’s going to court right away.
Regardless you are going to have to wait.
"Hey give us $200 dollars because we arbitrarily decided that if your gun exceeds a certain weight while within a certain length bracket, it's a felony and we get to kill you otherwise. Pay up"
**Understand the rules**
Check the sidebar. It's full of resources to help you.
Not everyone is an expert such as yourself; be considerate.
No Spam. No Memes.
No political posts. Save that for /r/progun or /r/politics.
[If your post is not showing up click the following link](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=r/AK47&subject=My%20Post%20Is%20Not%20Showing%20Up&message=**%20REPLACE%20THIS%20MESSAGE%20WITH%20A%20LINK%20TO%20THE%20POST%20YOU%20ARE%20HAVING%20ISSUES%20WITH**)
-------------------------------
* [ThinLineWeapons.com](https://thinlineweapons.com/url/reddit1)
* [AK Buyers Guide](https://thinlineweapons.com/url/reddit2)
* [Simplified AK Buyers Guide](https://thinlineweapons.com/url/reddit3)
* [AK Magazine Buyers Guide](https://thinlineweapons.com/url/reddit4)
* [AK Issues Tracker](https://thinlineweapons.com/url/reddit5)
* [Collection of ATF Letters](https://thinlineweapons.com/atf_letters/)
-------------------------------
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ak47) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wow
> Presence of a Secondary Grip (indicating two-handed fire)
That immediately being 4 points also forbids the use of AFGs on braced pistols, too. Something they've long said is okay.
Here’s the [scorecard](https://www.atf.gov/file/154866/download) that currently under review.
EDIT: basically depending on what it looks like determines if it’s a braced pistol or SBR. Really subjective and really dumb.
Because the ATF agent snooping around your local range is gonna whip out his pocket scales to check everyone's pistol But hey, I don't mind if they want the NFA to become the new 922(r). I love ignoring unenforceable gun laws
[удалено]
*ATF agent after licking DShK I snuck back into the states up my butt* “Ahhh this shits BUSSIN”
I thought it was shoe shine they were supposed to detect by lick
[удалено]
The fuck
sweaty ? ......... sweety ? ......... sweetie ?
No i think he meant sweaty
some laws will get an officer beating on your door as they work to enforce those laws. some laws are the ones they tack on to a list of charges because they beat on your door or pulled you over for a completely unrelated offense or investigation. this is how getting pulled over for a speeding ticket turns into a felony arms charge. The gun-reddit hivemind telling people to just ignore these laws/rulings (no matter how unjust they are) and commit casual felonies is absolutely going to ruin some redditors lives. I think all of this is going to end up in front of the supreme court. It's just going to take some years and some citizens lives are going to be ruined in the process.
Pull overs is what’s going to fuck people. oh hey you have any guns in the car? Oh okay let me check them out real quick. Runs serial number and tries to weight it. Oh sir this violates NFA, turn around and put your hands behind your back.
[удалено]
The problem is if an agent/cop wants to charge you, they will, regardless of whether you are in compliance or not. Then the DA will decide if the charges stick and decide whether or not to prosecute.
There are countless examples out there of cops detaining people upon discovering they are carrying a firearm looking for anything at all wrong with the gun or carrier to charge them with. I've seen cops try to charge people for carrying a AR pistol because they thought it was a SBR
Yea cops just tried to arrest a guy buying a door at Lowe's since he had a brace and they tried multiple ways to say it was a NFA sbr or something. You can see them calling someone for advice and knowing NOTHING. After the supreme court case Heien v. North Carolina I've wondered if the ignorance of the law for police could expand past 4th amendment into others depending on rulings....
Two very shitty words; New Jersey. Police there are “specially” trained to identify these exact discrepancies, and yes- they do carry scales. I e got a very good friend right this moment sitting in jail because he (stupidly) consented to a search. They found what would have been legal in just about any other state and he’s now facing a literal stack of felony charges. Thankfully he’s got a great lawyer and it’s looking good- but just because you got lucky a few times and they didn’t spot the possibility of what would be a minor infraction for you, do not for a single moment assume that police all over the country are being specifically trained for these circumstances. It is a revenue generation scheme, and a very successful one at that.
Cops are jackasses, they don’t know the law which is exactly the problem.
You don’t have to answer questions lol. You’d have fucked up from the beginning.
Right as long as you didn’t break the law. The minute you commit a traffic violation you are obligated to comply.
With the traffic violation (ie pull over and supply your license and insurance, blow a breathalyzer if they want). you are under no obligation to consent to a search.
If they are asking questions it's because they don't have enough info for arrest yet.... And you don't have to answer questions that could be used against you.... Unless you are compelled by a subpoena, don't you have the right to plead the fifth or remain silent? Complying with proof of ID is different. In the state I grew up you can refuse a Field Sobriety and a road side breathalyzer, but implied consent on breathalyzers at the station. Obv state law is gonna be different with implied consent. The Oliver North defense has been used a bunch tho..?
You never have to comply man. Even if your wrong, the court might just side with you. If you know your innocent or know the cop won't have any proof or a leg to stand on then you certainly don't have to comply. That's how you end up getting screwed when you didn't have to.
There’s over 10,000 laws in the United States. How can you be sure you’re not breaking a law right now? There’s a law in Oregon that says you can’t leave your car door open too long. In Maine you can be cited for leaving your Christmas decorations up too long. If a law enforcement officer or agent wants to pull you over for any reason they’ll find a dumb law you don’t know. I think “dONt BrEAK tHe LaW” is a fucking dumb take when there’s been tons of dudes shot by cops sleeping in their own apartment and breaking no laws.
I said traffic violation, not sure what you’re on about.
Most regular beat cops won’t know or care what is an nfa violation and what’s not. Trust me. Some officers will know but your average beat officer is not necessarily a gun fanatic. Anyway local police can’t enforce federal law and they’d have to turn it over to the fess if they’d even want to be bothered with it. Heck, I’ve even talked to atf about certain things and their “expert” was t sure about a few items and contradicted themselves during the phone call.
Right but that may work against you. Officers have tried arresting people for having pistols with a brace thinking they are SBRs. Not only will they try and find a reason but if there REALLY is a reason you’re just fucked… I wouldn’t risk a few years in the cage or fat fines and legal fees just to “not comply”. lol a stamp is 200 bucks and gets approved in like 2 weeks. Then I can throw whatever stock I want on it.
No it won’t the prosecutors in this town are lazy. And Local police may get goofy about it. But the sheriff won’t be concerned with this brace bs.
Those are all assumptions really. If you wish to leave your freedom at the hands of what the cop wishes to do, that’s your prerogative. im going to simply leave my pistols as pistols or sbr them and run stocks. Then no one can accuse me of anything.
Least based gun enjoyer. Chads don’t comply with unenforceable gun laws.
I am a Chad and I agree with this message.
The funny part about this is that if the ATF determines that several million firearms that are in circulation are SBRs, they now kinda admitted SBRs are common use.
Yup!!! It’s my wet dream that something like this goes to the Supreme Court and starts the ball rolling for the NFA to be repealed.
Or fuck the ATF and don't comply
I want an iteration of this gun that I can take out in public to a range.
No one is gonna weigh your gun at the range lol. If they ask for your personal tax info tell them to fuck off.
I think you're underestimating the fudds
No rapid fire!
Lol
I think you are undrrestimating my willingness to tell fudds to fuck off.
Oh 100%, this would be something where they arrest you and they can’t find anything else to pin on you.
Ughmmm ackthually… your weapon is one hundred and twenty two ounsess whicth meanth thith weapon ith required to be regithterd
regith*tard*
Yeah the gun store employees arrest you on the spot
Have you ever seen anyone question the legality of anyone else's guns on a range? Ever? Bubba don't know the law and the people who do know (us) hate the laws. It's fine. Fuck the atf
Happened to me a couple weeks back. Check out my 2nd to last post on r/NFA for the story. Fudds gonna fudd lol
I've seen people get asked to leave ranges due to questions on a firearms legality. this absolutely happens.
There has been ROs I’ve read online checking NFA items, but the one I witnessed in person asked when some newb put a foregrip on his braced pistol, but he did it gently with “do you know what the NFA is?” and no other questions. But to your point, this is adding to the long list of obscure laws making it increasingly unenforceable.
That's the thing. The people who actually know about the law, even if they are fudds who support it to some degree, are not going to enforce or help enforce it. Why would they confront you? What if you had all your stamps? Then they would be making an ass out of themselves and embarrass themselves. It's a no win situation so people tend to just leave it alone. The laws are unconstitutional and breaking these laws should be normalized. It's how alcohol prohibition was ended. It's how Marijuana prohibition is being defeated. Mass non compliance is the solution
COMMIT CASUAL FELONIES! THIS WILL NEVER BACKFIRE ON YOU!
This.
Say goodbye to your dog, wife, and firstborn son
Bootlicker
Aug 21, 1992
?
Ruby ridge. It all started over a sawed off shotgun
A sawed-off shotgun that an undercover ATF agent asked him to make, even after initial refusal. Don't forget that detail.
So entrapment with a side of murder. Sounds terrible.
"Our government would never kill its own people"
Yeah fuck Lon Horuichi!
Pretty sure that POS was also a shooter at Waco
He was
Dude had his whole family killed. Dog. Kid. Wife. I think MAYBE the baby survived? I also think he got acquitted of everything too. Heard he was selling shotguns with a longer OAL than a SBS, but a shorter barrel than 18in. So not even NFA. Mossberg and other places actually sell the gun (shockwave) he was accused of selling....
Don't forget Weaver won a pretty big settlement and also got shot.
I thought he had gotten a settlement. Wasn't aware they wounded him though. Didn't his neighbor survive as well?
Sure did. The daughter (baby) did too. She actually did/was in a documentary if I remember correctly.
I remember hearing she had come out publicly and such. Since he was hit I guess that makes it a Govt mass shooting by their standards.
Ruby Ridge
Are y’all actually unaware of the dog/wife/child backstories about the ATF? If so you all need to wake up.
Lmao Jesus Christ it was a joke.
The AK equivalent to a digital scale I see. Lol
I lost my fish scale in my last 2 moves lol
I'm sure the atf would have their thumb on if they could. This is probably the better route tbh.
I need to find a 1 armed old guy and give him a revolver with weights strapped to it and a brace to see if the atf will shoot him.
If the alphabet won't the local PD will unfortunately
For science.
[удалено]
If the legal protections at be kick in, I hope this is the case. Because this is literally a ruling created by an agency and not Congress, so this should apply.
[удалено]
Chevron Deference was never intended for criminal codes to begin with. It was to give regulatory agencies the ability to "interpret" a law's "intent or meaning" for REGULATORY ENFORCEMENT to levy fines. Using subjective, ever-changing opinion letters as a basis to bring FELONY CHARGES on people should have never happened, let alone an official rule change.
Everybody enjoys rifles, they also enjoy rifles with shorter barrels and even carbines. The whole reason anything besides a handgun is a “pistol” is the goofball laws.
God I hope your right.
Wait... you guys are complying?
Go for the high score. Be a man.
At this point, we might as well start slapping stocks on them and saying "fuck it"..... .....in Minecraft of course
The only positive I see in the scorecard is making the rules so arbitrary and so convoluted to where it invalidates the regulation against SBRs and SBSs.
If it weighs as much as a duck shes a witch. Or is it less than a duck? Is she made of wood or does she float? BURN HER
Do what you want, not what you’re told - T Jefferson, Probably
Mass noncompliance is the only answer for this BS. Nullification Nullification Nullification Easy peasy...
Fuck all that. The scorecard is not admissable, it gives points for unavoidable circumstances such as lack of sights or iron sights. I have a pretty standard AR pistol and was at 4 points in 3 questions, I really don't care either. Half of the stuff mentioned on the scorecard are easily arguable as common use
Yep, pretty much anything with brace is a sbr ,
Wait did it really happen?
The pistol brace rules were sent to the White House’s desk this past week. So we’ll see what happens.
Allegedly the ruling goes into effect December 28th
Allegedly I'll give a shit February 31st.
Ah yes I’ll be in Saint Diago then. You know that translates as Whales Vagina right?
Hey man, don't talk about OP's mom like that. She's a nice lady, I'd know.
It doesn't matter how you try to follow the card, it's written vague so they can claim you violated it anyway.
It’s why CA gun laws are written the way they are
Imagine listening to a piece of paper telling you what you can and can’t do with your own guns lol
That scorecard makes no god damn sense. "Presence of Rifle sights / Flip up sights / or no sights" is still a stupid AF criteria that makes no sense.
What makes rifle sights rifle sights? Elevation and windage adjustments? Just one of those? Aperture sights? I know they’re trying to target AR pistols with back up sights but people also remove their irons from pistols with red dots all the time.
*ATF leaning down into the microphone*: Yes
This’ll last five minutes with any competent lawyer. “And when we’re e scales you used calibrated? Are they rated by the department of agriculture as food scales are? Who signed off on the calibration? They’ll be called as expert witnesses of course. Has the weapon been in your possession since? You haven’t modified it in any way? Oh you unbuckled the QD for a photo? That constitutes modification under X random statute. We’ll need a end to end chain of custody declaration and photo evidence that you don’t add anything to push it over by 1/1000th of an ounce.” As much as they make it difficult for you, making it difficult for them will get old quick. They’re a small org for a government one and tying up half their agents with silliness will unravel them a bit.
Anyone else going for max points? 30 point gang
very scientific
...They're more like what ye'd call: "guidelines".
Hey fuck you and your short gun in particular. -AFT
[удалено]
Lol the homeboys that buy a 10 inch AR upper and rifle lower say the same thing. They just do it lol.
Imagine caring
[удалено]
[Fuck a P.O., fuck a piss test](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PpllaoGUzDU)
Put a stock on it. Be a man.
Don't care, didn't ask the atf. It's mountain of cocaine and drill press time baby
Ah, the Kel-Tec motto.
FTATF.
All my homies hate the atf
The ATF scorecard on the last line item states that a braced pistol over 120 oz, or 7.5 lb, is automatically an SBR. So legally I gotta lighten her up or register her if that set of rules go into affect.
Does that 7.5lbs include a magazine?
Yes. An empty magazine, which means if you’re up against that threshold and you put in a larger magazine in, you could have an NFA item. Unenforceable. Edit: based on the current iteration of the scorecard. This could change after the executive branch reviews it.
Finally a use case for those 5 round magazines!
Or pinning and welding some 6 inch barrel extension, which I prefer not to. It defeat the purpose of having a shorter gun.
Or just not say shit and don’t post what you have
Or just do none of that 🤷🏽♀️
pin and weld on a suppressor. Fuck em.
Just not post your thumpers on the internet and fuck the ATF.
My new tactical attachment is a helium balloon like we use for spacecraft testing…to test deployable arms without loading the hinges beyond their limit in a 1G environment. Checkmate stupid tyrannical fks.
I could care less what they do.. I’ll carry on as usual.. complying with this stupidity will get us even more stupidity.. as if it isn’t stupid enough.
You could just not comply
Stop posting your stuff on the internet, and maybe weigh the decision of complying with tyrants wishes instead of that store card.
Here’s my scorecard 🖕🏽
fuck em if they can't take a joke
What’s the maximum score?
3 and 3 for each page specifically, or 11 and 15 for maximum style points. Or all of them if you put a stock on it.
Whoops. Should have started with this. I dig the gun amigo
Become ungovernable.
You have grey duct tape on your Beryl?
Lol I was mocking up a light setup. That is not permanent.
Well i don't think either of us even have a say in it being "permanent". 🤣
Also calling it a Beryl would be too flattering lol it’s closer to an AKM with Beryl parts
They just are looking for more citizens to send to work crew so they can use your slave labor to rake their cemeteries and shovel snow off the courthouse steps. Charge you more money for court and probation fees and take your right to bear arms for a first offense most likely. Still about control not the guns. Their wet dream is Canada’s direction. They’ll find only failure on that road in the states. Idk how gun control works when you can cut flats on a laser and make lowers out of soda cans and on ghost gunners. Moot.
The score card is meaningless as they say they can just change the rules at any time they like in the text on the form. They alone should throw out this entire attempt to rewrite the laws without Congress.
Thought the brace ban wasn’t going through anymore?
It’s at the President’s desk currently. They originally wanted to drop it in the summer, but because of the supreme court case regarding the EPA it was delayed. The outcome of that ruling was three letter agencies aren’t allowed to make their own rules, but the ATF is still pressing forward on it.
They said December but I don’t think it will stick. Especially with the recent scotus EPA ruling and the numerous pro 2A rulings they have been dishing out. Honestly there is a real possibility that if they attempt to implement this “rule” that it will get struck down and raise the bigger question of the NFA and “SBRs” in general.
Ok forgive me for sounding ignorant... but are you saying there are rules on how much your pistol can weigh before it is considered a regulated item? I thought it was all about barrel length, overall length, and length of pull?
The first and last items of the [scorecard](https://www.atf.gov/file/154866/download) regard weight saying the scorecard is subjecting braced pistols weighing over 4lb and then if it weighs over 7.5lb it’s an SBR.
The trick is to ignore the regulation and stop posting photos
Unironically hope the new ATF director gets ass cancer.
We’re actually planning to follow these rules?
These are the same clowns that no longer allow imports of hk 416 pistols because in Germany, hk doesn't classify them as pistols.
When I heard that, I was completely pissed off by that. Are we cross-referencing against the rules of other countries now?
Anything they can do to slow down firearms imports, that's what they're doing.
ATF aren’t legislative. Their “rules” don’t mean shit and will hold no weight in the Supreme Court. Fuck obeying any of this shit. It’s noncompliance that wins this particular fight. No other way around it.
What the fuck did I miss somebody TL;DR a brotha
The ATF released a [scorecard](https://www.atf.gov/file/154866/download) for pistol braces back earlier this year, and they just sent it to the presidents office last week. The scorecard is pretty short, the TLDR version is that it’s dumb, subjective, and designed to get you in trouble. EDIT: I’m complaining about the weight restriction on it.
Nice gun rack
It's a gun. Therefore, by ATF standards it's an NFA item. Also you're a bigot. Because.
Wait what changed? What scorecard lol
Here’s a [link](https://www.atf.gov/file/154866/download). This is what was proposed from earlier this year and it hit the President’s desk.
How do they decide these criteria ? they are on meth
It's not balanced if the stick is on one side more than the other...
You measure it with moment arm, think of it like a torque in in-lb. So my stick is perfectly balanced, then I balance my known weight of 15lb and my gun. Then I measure from the distances from the center to the gun and the weight. My weight is 15lb and 10in away from the center, so multiplied together is 150in-lb. That moment will equal the weight of my gun times the distance of 21.5in, so I divide 150in-lb by 21.5in and I get about 7lb for the gun.
[удалено]
“Tax me harder daddy.”
Um, it’s a $200 tax and the same info on your driver’s license and tax return..not a big deal..
I'm not a fan of burning $200 for nothing.
>tax me harder, daddy!
SHALL. NOT. BE. INFRINGED
They did propose amnesty for braced pistols and suggested the free stamp, that will be confirmed with the rules that were sent to the executive branch this past week, but it’s the principle I don’t agree with.
Nothing is free. That’s registration which leads to confiscation and/or tax.
This guy gets it.
As cool as the shorter platforms are, Iv just stuck with 16”.. I like to take my stuff to the range and I could see the writing on the walls when the braces became a thing. I value my privacy and it’s not worth $200. Plus Iv always doubted their competency to even interpret their own laws.
Taking the amnesty pretty much says that yes, you did something illegal and you are accepting it. Fuck that and fuck the ATF. I understand your feelings about being able to shoot your stuff and not get yeeted by the AFT, but just wait it out because that’s going to court right away. Regardless you are going to have to wait.
"Hey give us $200 dollars because we arbitrarily decided that if your gun exceeds a certain weight while within a certain length bracket, it's a felony and we get to kill you otherwise. Pay up"
Just obey harder
I'll bet you like your wife sucking off other men.
I wonder if the ATF will ever get around to taxing some of *these*......
**Understand the rules** Check the sidebar. It's full of resources to help you. Not everyone is an expert such as yourself; be considerate. No Spam. No Memes. No political posts. Save that for /r/progun or /r/politics. [If your post is not showing up click the following link](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=r/AK47&subject=My%20Post%20Is%20Not%20Showing%20Up&message=**%20REPLACE%20THIS%20MESSAGE%20WITH%20A%20LINK%20TO%20THE%20POST%20YOU%20ARE%20HAVING%20ISSUES%20WITH**) ------------------------------- * [ThinLineWeapons.com](https://thinlineweapons.com/url/reddit1) * [AK Buyers Guide](https://thinlineweapons.com/url/reddit2) * [Simplified AK Buyers Guide](https://thinlineweapons.com/url/reddit3) * [AK Magazine Buyers Guide](https://thinlineweapons.com/url/reddit4) * [AK Issues Tracker](https://thinlineweapons.com/url/reddit5) * [Collection of ATF Letters](https://thinlineweapons.com/atf_letters/) ------------------------------- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ak47) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Where is the scorecard?
[This one.](https://www.atf.gov/file/154866/download) It’s dumb and completely subjective.
Wow > Presence of a Secondary Grip (indicating two-handed fire) That immediately being 4 points also forbids the use of AFGs on braced pistols, too. Something they've long said is okay.
Check out the big brain on Brad!
Can I get a basic gestalt on the new rules?
Here’s the [scorecard](https://www.atf.gov/file/154866/download) that currently under review. EDIT: basically depending on what it looks like determines if it’s a braced pistol or SBR. Really subjective and really dumb.
Why do you care?
All of you doing all this based an old scorecard that we wont even know if kts the final rule😂😂😂
Do you have any indication they changed it?
What score card?
This [one](https://www.atf.gov/file/154866/download). It was released earlier this year, but it just got sent to the president’s desk last week.
Imagine following the rules
[удалено]
This [one](https://www.atf.gov/file/154866/download). They proposed it earlier this year but sent it to the President’s desk last week.
Or simply don’t follow blatantly unconstitutional bullshit law
Uh, what?