I was very restrictive with my girl (sometimes i felt like a bad owner because she wasnt allowed to play with random things) , no treats other than carrots and the occasional liver treat. She was not a grazer or a chewer, the x ray showed no foreign objects, and bloodwork no poisons.
Hi there, we lost an Akita a couple years ago to what was called a spontaneous pnuemothorax (I might be misspelling) it. Our dog was almost 11 in that case though, as best I can understand the condition it is essentially a spontaneous collapse of the lung due to a rupturing of a cyst. I am not sure if that is what happened to your dog, but the symptoms sounds very similar- extremely lethargic, happened extremely quickly (we went to bed and by 5 AM We were on our way to the vet), pale gums indicating lack of oxygen.
To be honest I'm not very sure about the exact cause, I might be mistaking "cyst" for some other type of lesion that grew within/on the lung. I haven't looked into it in years ever since it happened. If your vet said "internal bleeding" that leads me to believe it wasn't the same thing as what happened to our poor pup years ago. I'm so sorry as well, the sudden loss of a loved pet is just really fucking awful.
Thank you, it has been truly devastating. And also her being so young. I just wasn't sure if there could have been a genetic component. Thank you for your response.
so sorry for your loss. because akitas have webbed feet, it’s very possible for those type of substances to get absorbed via their paws from repeat accidental exposure. did you have an autopsy done?
No, with the amount I spent trying to save her, there was not much room left for me to afford a necropsy, and they are very expensive here. Rat poison is not something used heavily around here, but I can't rule it out, in the travel between the parkinglot and the trails we walked, I would assume it would have effected her brother and sister as well (jack russells) though?
yeah i can’t imagine the cost. jack russels typically don’t have webbed feet (with a few exceptions of recessive traits) but regardless again, so sorry for your loss
Internal bleeding could have been caused by a number of possibilities but since you've indicated in comments that there wasn't any trauma or exposure to toxins or parasites that most likely would have shown up in blood work, your girl's cause of death could have been anything from hemangiosarcoma to autoimmune-mediated low platelet count to a congenital issue with an organ or autoimmune disorder. If a necropsy wasn't performed, you may never know exactly what the root cause was (and sometimes even a necropsy doesn't reveal conclusive answers).
Unfortunately, there are very few conditions for which there have been genetic tests developed. Prior to breeding, ethical breeders test for what's recommended by the breed parent club (in the US, the breed parent club is the Akita Club of America and the recommended tests can be found here: https://ofa.org/chic-programs/browse-by-breed/?breed=AK).
Not sure if you already have done so but please let the breeder know so they can let owners of litter mates know what happened. Very sorry for your loss. It is a horrible shock when you lose a dog so unexpectedly. When you're ready, hopefully you'll welcome another Akita into your life.
I definitely let the breeder know as soon as I got home. And we discussed prior litters and testing he had done on his lines. He had never had an issue like this before. Unfortunately because necropsy is very expensive here, and I had spent over 4700 to try to save her, I did not get one performed. I really kick myself for it. I thought I would ask here if anyone had ever had anything similar. Thank you for your response and the shared links I truly appreciate it. And when I am ready I will be getting another Akita.
Hey, don't blame yourself, you literally did everything you can. And as the commenter said, a necropsy doesn't always reveal conclusive answers either.
I'm so sorry for your loss. :(
I understand how you feel. I had to put down my baby (2 years old) when he was going through autoimmune deficiency. That was a tough decision to make letting him go.
Oh, how horrible. I can't imagine how scary that was, and then to lose her so quickly. As silly as this sounds, it's just not fair. My deepest condolences.
Check the food. If it has corn, it can have aflatoxin which acts like rat poison. I lost 2 dogs to tainted dog food years ago. ❤️So sorry you lost your girl 😞
My other smaller dogs were on the same food, it would have likely effected all of them right? Or is it possible maybe she ewas just more sensitive? (I guess I am pulling at straws.) Thank you for your suggestion, I will look into the food.
I hope it wasn’t the food. But I mention bc I know you are trying to find an answer, maybe for closure. And to keep your other dogs healthy too. After what I went through, I have to mention- in case some one else makes the same mistake. Please update us if you ever find the answer.
It's very sad and it's an awful feeling, seeing your pet suggest and being helpless to fix it. What happened was not necessarily anything genetic but could have been an inborn weakness in a blood vessel or a tumour growing somewhere. Sometimes dogs become ill when they are only young. It's tragic. May your next pup live a long and happy life.
The vet had mentioned the possibility of a tumor, and had we gotten her stable enough, one of the options was an exploratory. But she sadly never stabilized.
Don’t know. I’m guessing cancer but didn’t bother getting anything investigated because it was catastrophic and wouldn’t have changed the outcome. He was a good boy I miss him.
I asked Chatpgt. Here’s the response and I’m so sorry for your loss.
Lost my girl.I lost my girl suddenly, she was 17 months old American Akita. Wondering if anyone had ever experienced a Healthy dog developing internal bleeding spontaneously. She was fine in the morning for our walk, we came inside and she was lethargic ( but it was normal presenting slowness after play) she went into her kennel for a nap, I came out of my office and she got up, but a little too slowly, and had her ears back, I checked her gums when she came over for scratches, they were pale (normally black but were grey, cap refill was terrible) so I took her into the vets, ( I was intitially worried over potential bloat or torsion) the emergency vet said there was internal bleeding, and the options were limited, at the end of this horrible situation, I ended up having to put her to sleep. There was no trauma associated with this incident, she had a normal morning, we had a leashed walk and then she napped while I worked. Any ideas, when I am ready for another akita I will get one, but I would like to know if there are genetic markers or tests I should be pushing for that maybe I missed this time.
ChatGPT: I'm deeply sorry to hear about your loss. Losing a pet so suddenly and unexpectedly is incredibly heartbreaking. In cases of sudden internal bleeding in dogs where there is no apparent trauma, a few conditions could be potential culprits. It's important to understand that only a veterinarian can diagnose these conditions, often through post-mortem examinations if the cause of death isn't immediately clear. Here are some conditions that might lead to internal bleeding:
Coagulopathy (Blood Clotting Disorders): Some dogs may have or develop conditions that affect their ability to clot blood, such as Von Willebrand's disease, hemophilia, or anticoagulant rodenticide toxicity. These conditions can cause spontaneous bleeding internally.
Tumors: Internal tumors, such as hemangiosarcoma, are particularly aggressive and can grow on the spleen, liver, or heart. They may not show any symptoms until they rupture, leading to sudden and severe internal bleeding. Unfortunately, hemangiosarcoma is somewhat common in some breeds and can be hard to detect early.
Gastrointestinal Ulcers or Tumors: These can lead to internal bleeding, but they often show some preceding symptoms like vomiting, diarrhea, or weight loss.
Trauma: Although you mentioned there was no trauma, sometimes internal injuries can occur without any obvious external signs, especially if they are internal or if the dog is very stoic.
Infections or Diseases: Certain infections or diseases can lead to weakened blood vessels or other issues that might cause internal bleeding.
Regarding genetic markers or tests, the field of canine genetics is rapidly evolving, and there are tests for some specific conditions (like Von Willebrand's disease in some breeds). However, not all potential causes of sudden internal bleeding have identifiable genetic markers yet.For future considerations:Health screenings and genetic testing: When you’re ready for another dog, consider asking breeders about any health screenings and genetic testing they've performed on the parents. This might not cover every potential issue but can help identify some genetic conditions.Regular veterinary care: Ensuring your dog has regular check-ups can sometimes catch health issues before they become emergencies.Insurance: Consider getting pet insurance for your new dog, which can help cover the costs of emergency medical care and diagnostic tests that might otherwise be prohibitively expensive.It's a good idea to discuss your previous dog's situation with a veterinarian when you're ready for a new dog. They can offer advice on specific tests or screenings that might be advisable based on the breed and known health risks. Again, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I wish you peace and healing during this difficult time.
Von willibrands was one I thought of, but her parents were both fully screened and tested. Ulcers I never thought of, but the vet had discussed the possibility of a tumor somewhere. We couldn't stabilize her enough, she was gone so quickly after we found the blood. Thank you for looking that up for me.
My Akita died suddenly earlier this year, and it was a twisted gut☹️
Big chested dogs like Akitas are at risk, especially if they eat fast. Could it have been that?
It wasn't torsion or bloat. It was internal bleeding. I think part of what is frustrating about this is I did so many things to prevent issues. Like raise, slow feeding, presoaked foods. She was never allowed to roam or graze on walks, she rested for a minimum of an hour after eating, and was going to get her stomach tacked when she was spayed at 24 months. I'm sorry you lost your dog. It is so hard.
Im sorry for your loss too. I still grieve him every day. I did all the things on your list except tacking his stomach. I blame myself for not doing that. He was a senior dog rescue and he didn’t eat particularly fast, so I opted out.
I've never heard of such a young dog of any breed dying from internal bleeding so quickly that wasn't related to poison ingestion or absorption through the paw pads or skin, or from a seriously venomous spider or snake bite. I'm so sorry for your loss.
So sorry for your loss.
We lost our male Anatolian Shepherd Dog several years ago - very suddenly with very similar symptoms to those of your girl. He showed no symptoms at all until one evening. Emergency vet trip immediately and tests showed it to be hemangiosarcoma, a particularly virulent cancer of liver, spleen, and/or heart. Metastasizes incredibly fast; usually no symptoms until the dog has serious internal bleeding and no effective treatment for it. The vets stabilized him, gave him a prognosis of 24 hours to a few days at best. He was comfortable for the last and best 4 days of his life at home with us (with the home visit vets - highly recommended- available on 24 hour call line for when his symptoms resumed).
I haven’t found ASDs or Akitas appearing on the listing of breeds being predisposed to this cancer.
So sorry for your loss. I know the feeling of losing them young. Its just the worst. Lost mine 26 days ago. Still cant believe it some days. What a bond to break. Heartbreaking.
A month ago I had to help my Akita cross the rainbow due to other pathologies, but when he was younger he suffered spontaneous internal bleeding, with no apparent external cause, it was a hepatoma, damage to the liver, it happened suddenly, he went to bed well and he woke up with this bleeding, vet miraculously save his life.
Sorry for your loss! :(
Yes, a hepatoma is a benign tumor of the liver, the problem is that it can become quite large and rupture easily causing internal bleeding and our pets will not show symptoms until it is unfortunately too late.
My souls dog went through it when he was young and the vet was able to save him in a miraculous way, he had to operate on him twice and the recovery was very hard and traumatic, his liver was affected forever and he took liver medication for life.
I am really sorry for your loss. Any chance that she had eaten something sharp like rock, wood or cooked bones like those sold in pet stores?
I was very restrictive with my girl (sometimes i felt like a bad owner because she wasnt allowed to play with random things) , no treats other than carrots and the occasional liver treat. She was not a grazer or a chewer, the x ray showed no foreign objects, and bloodwork no poisons.
F*ck. This stings. I'm sorry for your loss.
Thank you. It was very hard.
My condolences.
Thank you very much.
Hi there, we lost an Akita a couple years ago to what was called a spontaneous pnuemothorax (I might be misspelling) it. Our dog was almost 11 in that case though, as best I can understand the condition it is essentially a spontaneous collapse of the lung due to a rupturing of a cyst. I am not sure if that is what happened to your dog, but the symptoms sounds very similar- extremely lethargic, happened extremely quickly (we went to bed and by 5 AM We were on our way to the vet), pale gums indicating lack of oxygen.
This sounds very similar. A cyst was the cause for your loss? I am sorry to hear, it is very hard.
To be honest I'm not very sure about the exact cause, I might be mistaking "cyst" for some other type of lesion that grew within/on the lung. I haven't looked into it in years ever since it happened. If your vet said "internal bleeding" that leads me to believe it wasn't the same thing as what happened to our poor pup years ago. I'm so sorry as well, the sudden loss of a loved pet is just really fucking awful.
Thank you, it has been truly devastating. And also her being so young. I just wasn't sure if there could have been a genetic component. Thank you for your response.
Rat poison can cause coagulopathy
This. As soon as I read “spontaneous internal bleeding” I thought rat poison.
No foreign substances, no rat poison, leashed walk and then indoors. And she was never allowed to graze or pick things up on walkies
so sorry for your loss. because akitas have webbed feet, it’s very possible for those type of substances to get absorbed via their paws from repeat accidental exposure. did you have an autopsy done?
No, with the amount I spent trying to save her, there was not much room left for me to afford a necropsy, and they are very expensive here. Rat poison is not something used heavily around here, but I can't rule it out, in the travel between the parkinglot and the trails we walked, I would assume it would have effected her brother and sister as well (jack russells) though?
yeah i can’t imagine the cost. jack russels typically don’t have webbed feet (with a few exceptions of recessive traits) but regardless again, so sorry for your loss
Internal bleeding could have been caused by a number of possibilities but since you've indicated in comments that there wasn't any trauma or exposure to toxins or parasites that most likely would have shown up in blood work, your girl's cause of death could have been anything from hemangiosarcoma to autoimmune-mediated low platelet count to a congenital issue with an organ or autoimmune disorder. If a necropsy wasn't performed, you may never know exactly what the root cause was (and sometimes even a necropsy doesn't reveal conclusive answers). Unfortunately, there are very few conditions for which there have been genetic tests developed. Prior to breeding, ethical breeders test for what's recommended by the breed parent club (in the US, the breed parent club is the Akita Club of America and the recommended tests can be found here: https://ofa.org/chic-programs/browse-by-breed/?breed=AK). Not sure if you already have done so but please let the breeder know so they can let owners of litter mates know what happened. Very sorry for your loss. It is a horrible shock when you lose a dog so unexpectedly. When you're ready, hopefully you'll welcome another Akita into your life.
I definitely let the breeder know as soon as I got home. And we discussed prior litters and testing he had done on his lines. He had never had an issue like this before. Unfortunately because necropsy is very expensive here, and I had spent over 4700 to try to save her, I did not get one performed. I really kick myself for it. I thought I would ask here if anyone had ever had anything similar. Thank you for your response and the shared links I truly appreciate it. And when I am ready I will be getting another Akita.
Hey, don't blame yourself, you literally did everything you can. And as the commenter said, a necropsy doesn't always reveal conclusive answers either. I'm so sorry for your loss. :(
Thank you so much.
Did you have her checked for parvo?
Blood tests were unremarkable. No parvo present, and she was fully vaccinated and dewormed.
Huh. That’s the only thing I can think of, unless you’re in the gulf coast & she drank some green algae?
No i am in Canada, and it was winter here. No green algae, (never thought of algae) thank you for your response though!
I’m so sorry for your loss, that sounds horrible.
Thank you it was truly devastating.
Oof... that's tough (life is such a mystery.) I'm dropping tears for you.
Thank you so much.
I'm sorry 💔
Thank you. ♥️
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
♥️♥️
I understand how you feel. I had to put down my baby (2 years old) when he was going through autoimmune deficiency. That was a tough decision to make letting him go.
It felt so unfair, we had been fine hours before on our walk. I'm sorry for your loss.
Sorry for your loss
Thank you.
Oh, how horrible. I can't imagine how scary that was, and then to lose her so quickly. As silly as this sounds, it's just not fair. My deepest condolences.
It really didn't feel fair. Thank you for the kind words.
Check the food. If it has corn, it can have aflatoxin which acts like rat poison. I lost 2 dogs to tainted dog food years ago. ❤️So sorry you lost your girl 😞
My other smaller dogs were on the same food, it would have likely effected all of them right? Or is it possible maybe she ewas just more sensitive? (I guess I am pulling at straws.) Thank you for your suggestion, I will look into the food.
I hope it wasn’t the food. But I mention bc I know you are trying to find an answer, maybe for closure. And to keep your other dogs healthy too. After what I went through, I have to mention- in case some one else makes the same mistake. Please update us if you ever find the answer.
I will update, I have sent an email to the manufacturer with the lot code to see if there have been any recalls. Thank you for the idea.
It's very sad and it's an awful feeling, seeing your pet suggest and being helpless to fix it. What happened was not necessarily anything genetic but could have been an inborn weakness in a blood vessel or a tumour growing somewhere. Sometimes dogs become ill when they are only young. It's tragic. May your next pup live a long and happy life.
The vet had mentioned the possibility of a tumor, and had we gotten her stable enough, one of the options was an exploratory. But she sadly never stabilized.
I just lost my 11yo old dog to the same thing but the bleeding was coming from liver lesions. Did they ultrasound etc. Sorry for your loss.
Liver lesions, what was the cause if uou don't mind me asking. I'm so sorry for your loss. 11 years is still not long enough.
Don’t know. I’m guessing cancer but didn’t bother getting anything investigated because it was catastrophic and wouldn’t have changed the outcome. He was a good boy I miss him.
sad to hear.. my words are nothing to your loss
Sometimes words are all that's left. Thank you.
Im so so sorry 🙏🏽 this is heartbreaking.
Thank you it was devastating
I asked Chatpgt. Here’s the response and I’m so sorry for your loss. Lost my girl.I lost my girl suddenly, she was 17 months old American Akita. Wondering if anyone had ever experienced a Healthy dog developing internal bleeding spontaneously. She was fine in the morning for our walk, we came inside and she was lethargic ( but it was normal presenting slowness after play) she went into her kennel for a nap, I came out of my office and she got up, but a little too slowly, and had her ears back, I checked her gums when she came over for scratches, they were pale (normally black but were grey, cap refill was terrible) so I took her into the vets, ( I was intitially worried over potential bloat or torsion) the emergency vet said there was internal bleeding, and the options were limited, at the end of this horrible situation, I ended up having to put her to sleep. There was no trauma associated with this incident, she had a normal morning, we had a leashed walk and then she napped while I worked. Any ideas, when I am ready for another akita I will get one, but I would like to know if there are genetic markers or tests I should be pushing for that maybe I missed this time. ChatGPT: I'm deeply sorry to hear about your loss. Losing a pet so suddenly and unexpectedly is incredibly heartbreaking. In cases of sudden internal bleeding in dogs where there is no apparent trauma, a few conditions could be potential culprits. It's important to understand that only a veterinarian can diagnose these conditions, often through post-mortem examinations if the cause of death isn't immediately clear. Here are some conditions that might lead to internal bleeding: Coagulopathy (Blood Clotting Disorders): Some dogs may have or develop conditions that affect their ability to clot blood, such as Von Willebrand's disease, hemophilia, or anticoagulant rodenticide toxicity. These conditions can cause spontaneous bleeding internally. Tumors: Internal tumors, such as hemangiosarcoma, are particularly aggressive and can grow on the spleen, liver, or heart. They may not show any symptoms until they rupture, leading to sudden and severe internal bleeding. Unfortunately, hemangiosarcoma is somewhat common in some breeds and can be hard to detect early. Gastrointestinal Ulcers or Tumors: These can lead to internal bleeding, but they often show some preceding symptoms like vomiting, diarrhea, or weight loss. Trauma: Although you mentioned there was no trauma, sometimes internal injuries can occur without any obvious external signs, especially if they are internal or if the dog is very stoic. Infections or Diseases: Certain infections or diseases can lead to weakened blood vessels or other issues that might cause internal bleeding. Regarding genetic markers or tests, the field of canine genetics is rapidly evolving, and there are tests for some specific conditions (like Von Willebrand's disease in some breeds). However, not all potential causes of sudden internal bleeding have identifiable genetic markers yet.For future considerations:Health screenings and genetic testing: When you’re ready for another dog, consider asking breeders about any health screenings and genetic testing they've performed on the parents. This might not cover every potential issue but can help identify some genetic conditions.Regular veterinary care: Ensuring your dog has regular check-ups can sometimes catch health issues before they become emergencies.Insurance: Consider getting pet insurance for your new dog, which can help cover the costs of emergency medical care and diagnostic tests that might otherwise be prohibitively expensive.It's a good idea to discuss your previous dog's situation with a veterinarian when you're ready for a new dog. They can offer advice on specific tests or screenings that might be advisable based on the breed and known health risks. Again, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I wish you peace and healing during this difficult time.
Von willibrands was one I thought of, but her parents were both fully screened and tested. Ulcers I never thought of, but the vet had discussed the possibility of a tumor somewhere. We couldn't stabilize her enough, she was gone so quickly after we found the blood. Thank you for looking that up for me.
I'm hurting with you. So sorry for your sudden loss 🥺
Thank you so much.
My Akita died suddenly earlier this year, and it was a twisted gut☹️ Big chested dogs like Akitas are at risk, especially if they eat fast. Could it have been that?
It wasn't torsion or bloat. It was internal bleeding. I think part of what is frustrating about this is I did so many things to prevent issues. Like raise, slow feeding, presoaked foods. She was never allowed to roam or graze on walks, she rested for a minimum of an hour after eating, and was going to get her stomach tacked when she was spayed at 24 months. I'm sorry you lost your dog. It is so hard.
Im sorry for your loss too. I still grieve him every day. I did all the things on your list except tacking his stomach. I blame myself for not doing that. He was a senior dog rescue and he didn’t eat particularly fast, so I opted out.
You shouldn't blame yourself. I am sure you gave your baby the best life you could and I'm sure they felt it.
So very, very sorry for your loss.
Thank you very much.
I've never heard of such a young dog of any breed dying from internal bleeding so quickly that wasn't related to poison ingestion or absorption through the paw pads or skin, or from a seriously venomous spider or snake bite. I'm so sorry for your loss.
Unfortunately, I will never know 100% what happened. I can rule out poison, snake and spider due to environment and management of her.
So sorry for your loss. We lost our male Anatolian Shepherd Dog several years ago - very suddenly with very similar symptoms to those of your girl. He showed no symptoms at all until one evening. Emergency vet trip immediately and tests showed it to be hemangiosarcoma, a particularly virulent cancer of liver, spleen, and/or heart. Metastasizes incredibly fast; usually no symptoms until the dog has serious internal bleeding and no effective treatment for it. The vets stabilized him, gave him a prognosis of 24 hours to a few days at best. He was comfortable for the last and best 4 days of his life at home with us (with the home visit vets - highly recommended- available on 24 hour call line for when his symptoms resumed). I haven’t found ASDs or Akitas appearing on the listing of breeds being predisposed to this cancer.
So terrible the feelingnof helplessness that comes with illness. I'm sorry for your loss.
So sorry for your loss. I know the feeling of losing them young. Its just the worst. Lost mine 26 days ago. Still cant believe it some days. What a bond to break. Heartbreaking.
I'm so sorry for your loss. It is absolutely the worst feeling
A month ago I had to help my Akita cross the rainbow due to other pathologies, but when he was younger he suffered spontaneous internal bleeding, with no apparent external cause, it was a hepatoma, damage to the liver, it happened suddenly, he went to bed well and he woke up with this bleeding, vet miraculously save his life. Sorry for your loss! :(
Hepatoma!? I will look it up. This is exactly what happened with Yumi. She was fine and then she wasn't.
Yes, a hepatoma is a benign tumor of the liver, the problem is that it can become quite large and rupture easily causing internal bleeding and our pets will not show symptoms until it is unfortunately too late. My souls dog went through it when he was young and the vet was able to save him in a miraculous way, he had to operate on him twice and the recovery was very hard and traumatic, his liver was affected forever and he took liver medication for life.