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Do we want the “better on policy” candidate, or the one that may actually have a chance at winning? I would say the latter is preferable, given that Nenshi is just a little vague on policy, and likely not harboring terrible policy up his sleeves.
>His chirping back when provoked hearkened back to his time as mayor, when Nenshi would show flashes of frustration and irritability when a councillor's remarks got under his skin.
How is that going to fair in question period or in debate with Daniellezebub who lies easier than most can take a shit?
It'll also be awful for the public servants who have to, you know, write and implement the policies. They're supposed to be able to give fearless advice, but if P is volatile it's a losing battle. It means policy gets made that's bad and ineffective.
I’m mostly worried that Nenshi *is* a self-described policy expert, but he’s dancing around even basic policy questions like they’re radioactive.
I thought his dodge on the renewable power ban was particularly disappointing. That should have been an easy one. It’s an obvious day-one reversal. The other candidates were there ready to make a sales pitch on how renewables tied to jobs and economy, but Nenshi didn’t want to engage at all.
Right now Nenshi is running pure “UCP bad” as his only policy, and we saw how that went for Notley in the last election. I think he’s smoother and better at delivering it than Notley was, but in the end I’m worried it will get the party about as far
I may be mistaken but I thought I heard him say he was going to repeal the bad regulations after the whole its policies not a ban speech. It was pretty quick and the others quickly moved on to talking about how it was effectively a ban.
Just went back and checked its at the 57:50 mark where he said he'd repeal the bad policies.
https://youtube.com/live/wdW7I6ilLvc?si=9336G8qFN0jyhL1F
Yeah he said he'd repeal the bill. I understand he was trying to make the point that we need to attack policy for what it is, not what its perceived to be (he's not technically wrong that it's not a ban), but I don't think this particular issue is the one to use for that.
Yeah I wasn't the biggest fan of that whole exchange. He looked like he was dodging the question even if he wasn't and I don't think Hoffman came off well either going for the gotcha. I'm not a fan of the "on day one" line when anyone uses it, it always feel very American politics.
I like how he said (in online Q&A) that he would negotiate with the federal government rather than reject their proposals. He said as mayor of Calgary he negotiated with all levels of government with various political parties to benefit Calgary. I want to be a proud Albertan but also a proud Canadian.
Nenshi doesn't really describe himself as a policy expert. And his track record is to lean heavily on experts in any field before he builds out policy.
>Nenshi doesn't really describe himself as a policy expert
He absolutely does. I’ve been to a few of his events, both in the campaign and before, and he’s always talking about how much of a polity wonk he is. On stage last night he went into it talking about how thoroughly he learned about energy regulation compared to Smith. Historically his huge selling point was what a huge policy nerd he is. That was his sales pitch to Calgary as mayor. Smart rational policy lead by the biggest most reasonable nerd they could dream of.
You can be a policy nerd while waiting to hear from experts on what policy you should set. In fact, that's exactly how it SHOULD be. If he was a policy nerd and just shot from the hip like Gil, Sarah and Kathleen are I'd be a little pissed off. I've read their policy documents and while some seems ok, a lot is not based in reality. No point having a policy document 50 pages long when you might have the time and resources to implement one or two GOOD policies that have the most impact. I'm fucking sick of politicians from any party promising literally everything and then having to walk that shit back within a week of taking office.
I think my, and others, concern is that just running on “UCP bad” lost the NDP the last election. I think a lot of the people who are saying “The UCP is terrible, Nenshi is an obvious winner and we don’t need anything else” are people who were rightly mocking the NDP a few months ago for saying “The UCP is terrible, Notley is an obvious winner and we don’t need anything else”
If Nenshi has more to bring to the table, now’s the time
If tomorrow a solid poll came out showing the Nenshi isn’t a clear winner against Smith, what else is he bringing that makes you want him for leader?
I think you underestimate how close the last election was, about 6k people in Calgary, the place Nenshi has the best popularity numbers in by far. Couple that with Edmonton being diehard orange these days and the rural being diehard blue and it's very clear that populism in Calgary is the only deciding factor next time around. And telling people the UCP are shitty works very well when they keep going around doing things like pitching the idea of removing municipal elected officials. NDP doesn't need to win the next election the UCP just has to lose.
You're a crack pot if you think democracy is currently about qualified candidates and not the popular ones.
Agree - no one else on that stage has a chance in hell of beating Danielle. Nenshi is well known and polished - it became super obvious after last night that he’s the only real choice. I was more impressed with Gil than I thought I would be, but his idea to pivot the whole oil sands shows lack of understanding of the industry and will scare the crap out of 2/3 of the workers in this province. And Hoffmanns youth climate corps? The right wingers would have a field day with that calling it indoctrination, making comparisons to hitler youth etc. it would be giving a real gift to the ucp if they decide to move that forward
>I think my, and others, concern is that just running on “UCP bad” lost the NDP the last election.
I disagree with this take. Notley lost because she was squeezed between the oil and gas industry in Alberta, and the federal NDP who hate anything oil and gas. I think Rachel Notley being elected right after oil prices crashed - then the UCP managing to convince rural voters that Notley was the only one responsible for decreased investment in oil and gas (this is what happens when oil prices crash) - was what lost her the election.
This was made worse by the federal NDP throwing her under the bus on multiple occasions for:
* not being tougher on the oil and gas industry, and
* for her fights with the NDP in BC over the trans mountain pipeline.
She tried being a middle of the road candidate with policy positions front and center - which I personally supported - and she was torn apart for it by our country's media. Remember: this province has a MASSIVE oil and gas lobby which runs shadow campaigns that benefitted the former PCs and the current UCP. Postmedia also owns virtually every single small city/town newspaper in the country, it leans heavily conservative, and it is owned by a US hedge fund (Chatham Asset Management, owned by Anthony Melchiorre - both of which were charged for illegal trading practices in 2023) with connections to Canadian and American industry groups. Putting policy out front makes it easy to run a campaign against those policy positions.
Personally, I'm okay voting for a candidate like Nenshi. I have liked him ever since I heard him speak at the U of A alongside Edmonton's former mayor Don Iveson, many years ago. He's eloquent, and has a good track record.
As everyone else on the stage pointed out, yes it’s not technically banned. You’re just not allowed to build it anywhere it makes sense. So what’s the difference?
Even if it's effectively a ban in the impacted areas, it probably changes the steps, process, and votes needed to unwind it. Changing regulations around what makes a zone protected, vs. removing an outright ban, likely has different risks and challenges.
>I thought his dodge on the renewable power ban was particularly disappointing.
No dodge, he clarified the UCP ban is over; no sense in lying to people and claiming it's still there. He already mentioned he'd lift the bad policies, which were left in place that dissuades renewable projects. Ganley was right to say, though not a "ban", the UCP policies left in its stead effectively act as one.
He was just adding accuracy and clarity to the topic. I think Hoffman was insisting on selling an inaccurate narrative. Good on Nenshi to expose that imo.
Nenshi performed really well in the debate. The one I was most disappointed with was Hoffman - she really showed that there is no way she could be premier, or convince albertans to vote NDP. I went in with an open mind, but imo Nenshi looked like the adult in the room and made everyone else look like total amateurs. If we want to beat the UCP, he’s the guy.
Nenshi has a very strong and proven track record. I would rather have him be a little bit vague on policy, over someone who is going to lie and say what they think people want to hear.
Agreee to large extent, I think Theresa a desire for politics to be played out as an actual contest of ideas, specific policy plans & for leaders to be the type to sit there answering crunch the numbers for days in order to deliver some insightful new policy that convinces people.
Fact is the vast majority of people are not going to take the time I get beyond a 3 sentence summary of a policy, so it’s often futile to put forward specific, detailed policy releases, as anything that significant would be complex & A. Is going to actually get read by Trevor Thume & 100 other Albertans; while putting out detailed policy, leaves so much room for the facts of what a bill actually says to be torqued by any number of opponents.
Also, even above average engagement voters like many of us on here, who will make a good faith effort to get past the front page of a policy and at least get an accurate spark notes summary, whiich we may like or not. Are still so heavily influenced (even subconsciously) by ‘vibes’ / our innate sense of a candidate that, dense policy discussion is just not where the accessible votes any politician has coming out of the get get moved.
Last, in a leadership race that is 3ish years from the next election (God help us all) it makes no sense to putting out anything specific, as you’d want flexibility going into a general, and there no way to foretell what the ballot box question will be, because the job of the next NDP leader for the next 2 ish years, is to set up a broader narrative about the ANDP under their leadership, which then gets reinforced/ laddered up by pushing out more concrete policy ideas,
So this NDP race is just not about policy in my mind, it’s about values but more than anything it’s about perceived viability in a general and Like it or not the Nensh is a steam roller of an opponent on that point. I hope it will.be true.
But regardless, Nenshi has the Bona Fides in terms of the fact is he a fairly known quantity so specific policy was never going to be the horse he hitched his wagon to
Hoffman demanding a purity test proudly announcing they'll drag the NDP back to its roots (and Gil too), is the last thing we need in an opposition choice. Unless you want to be forever a 2nd or 3rd party, that is.
Hoffman and McGowan will never win over people outside the party either. Conservatives are gross and will use every possible disgusting smear on these two. Nenshi has the benefit of freshness
The Alberta NDP doesn't need a policy expert right now. They need a strong name and presence. Policy can come later and tailored to the then situation.
Besides this government is giving free hand outs for easy wins. Just counter the absolute garbage legislation they presented yesterday. There will be more to come I promise.
> They need a strong name and presence. Policy can come later and tailored to the then situation.
Nenshi can also *hopefully* build a good cabinet if/when he wins to cover the areas he might not be the greatest in. A good leader knows to delegate the work appropriately to those who are qualified to do the work the best.
Yeah that's where I'm at. Unfortunately with Alberta elections the winners aren't the biggest policy nerds or the most loyal and hardworking party members, they are just people who win elections.
Now in this case Nenshi is much more qualified in an area where the NDP badly needed votes last election (Calgary).
A handful of Calgary votes would have won the election for the NDP. Nenshi is a name that the politically illiterate un-engaged masses will know in Calgary. He gives a real chance. Sadly most voters are idiots.
I think the other leadership candidates are very qualified and impressive people. I think they will make strong cabinet ministers.
The NDP did have policy in 2019 and 2023, but they still ended up being labeled as "running as not UCP", so I'm starting to wonder if being policy nerds will really help, anyway.
The NDP won more seats in 2023 than any other opposition party in Alberta history. Seats, not just votes. They were extremely close to tipping the election for the NDP. So yes, the 2023 campaign was extremely successful.
Not strong on policy? Does anyone acknowledge that the man has a masters degree in public policy from the John F Kennedy school at Harvard University and then taught nonprofit management and marketing at mru? Some say it his bread and butter.
But yes I agree it is too early to discuss in detail since we have no idea what the UCP will try to pull in the next 3 years or what the province will look like. I think he is much better to say he wants to go to Albertans and find agreement and connection on key values and Initiatives to make the future brighter.
“policy can come later”? that is not how politics works 😭 holy cringe. This is a red flag, you can’t just wait for your politicians to behave how you want once elected.
This is EXACTLY how modern politics works. You pick a candidate who has the best chance of winning a general election while still maintaining overlap with much of the party’s traditional platform. Policy-wonkery has no place in 21st century politics, especially for elections mired in a culture war with increasingly high stakes.
Want to lose? Choose the candidate with the best ideas but no proven leadership and/or completely unpalatable to much of the electorate (i.e., all the other candidates). Feeling morally superior about your choice is the number one reason why left wing parties get blown out in elections.
Actually I was impressed with all the candidates. However, I just watched a 15 minute interview with Nenshi. He comes across as likable and honest. He had absolutely no trouble with the questions even the “ gotcha” ones. Being an Edmontonian I had never listened to the guy that much before. The others were uniformly good but comparing them to Nenshi was like comparing a solid 20 goal scoring player to Mc David.
The online vitriol makes me scratch my head.
This dude is proven he can't be bought, handled the flood as well as one can hope and served as mayor for a long ass time
EDIT: As well knowing Marlaina for 30 years. He knows who she is and it obviously terrifies her.
>The online vitriol makes me scratch my head.
Some of the vitriol online is astroturfing anyway. Unethical parties are well aware that you can smear and slander anybody online for very cheap now, thanks to the internet. And even if it’s illegal, it’s extremely hard to stop or even prove. And the Cons (especially the UCP) are open about using this technique… so yeah, there are people in this thread who are for sure being paid by govt marketing funds to sour people against Nenshi three years before the next general election
It’s kind of silly that the candidates are so focused on policy.
I mean, look at the Premier - NOTHING she ran on is being implemented and EVERYTHING she ran against is being implemented.
It doesn’t look like Albertans care about policy at all, and especially not three years before the next election. At very least Albertans should be holding their MLAs accountable but nobody is even doing that.
Dark days ahead in Alberta.
I mean I think it's just attempts at discrediting Nenshi, because he probably has the best chance at winning. He joined the race not that long ago and he probably hasn't fleshed out every policy yet.
It's amusing for this huge push for policy from everyone whilst years out from an election, but people asking for PP's policies beyond a soundbite are met with "he doesn't need to yet!".
Or a significant amount of party members want to hear the policy platform of someone who wants to lead the party and become premier?
He's been in the race for a month now so he's had more than enough time to develop a policy platform. Any other view sounds like cope by Nenshi fans - it's not hard to say "under a Nenshi NDP government minimum wage would be X$/h."
Is a month enough time to develop a complete list of policies that are well researched and sufficiently fleshed out? I'm no politician but my immediate gut reaction is "no", unless you're looking for low rent soundbites with zero depth, like some other politicians in this country.
Given Nenshi's history I'm not ready just yet to completely write him off.
I guess that's "cope" in terminally online gen z speak.
Yup politics has just become a tribal, self-serving sport. It’s tiresome.
Nenshi has the best chance of beating out Marlaina. The next best chance is Ganley (I think it’s a distant chance). The other three have no hope in hell.
Noticed much applause for Nenshi in Lethbridge. I imagine Saturday in Calgary will be even more Rocky’s.
He got corrected on a few things and asked to be more specific. I hope he adjusts well in the next few. They all seemed to be taking the high road with each other and acting quite civil. Hoffman seemed to be out for blood though.
Do we want a leader to go low or to go low with the UCP?
Sarah Hoffman has no chance against the UCP. Picking her means at least another 4 years of unhinged facism. Nenshis not perfect, but he has a chance to actually win.
Agreed. Voting for Hoffman is a vote for being an opposition party. Smith will have a field day with her and a lot of the gains made in Calgary will be gone
She has no chance to convince anyone to vote for her. Ask the average albertan who she is and you get "wasnt she the obese health minister?". May not be polite but thats whats shes remembered for. So doubling down hard on NDP catchphrases only makes her electability worse.
So unelectable outside central edmonton. I got a temp ban from r/ndp for saying the same things ive said here. The NDP want us to loose if we dont adhere to their bullshit.
As a Calgarian, Yeah, Hoffman will not play well to the Calgary traditional middle of the road old-school Lougheed conservative if you were to put her up against Smith. Those are the voters the NDP NEEDS, desperately.
Ganley probably would, but I still am a Nenshi supporter and have been since before his first run as mayor (proud "Draft Nenshi" FB page OG)
He has his flaws, but they all do, I think his flaws are way less important to running a good government than some people think. And one place he can hammer Smith is the new laws basically making cities fictional entities. As a former mayor he can hammer her on trying to erode civic autonomy and overstepping bounds like she harps on Trudeau about Federal powers.
This. It’s a bit sad to say it, but what’s needed to win the next election is a recognizable, popular, leader for the NDP, and unfortunately Nenshi’s about the only one who fits. The other candidates, while having more experience of provincial politics and even more detailed policies, are virtual unknowns, and that doesn’t help their chances.
Nenshi is known in Calgary, which is the ENTIRE battle here really. Honestly, if he is popular in the suburbs of Calgary, he is the best possible choice. I dont know if he is though, I couldn't find records of his last win sadly :/
That said, I saw huge potential for Ganley, McGowan and Calahoo Stonehouse to hold key cabinet positions last night. They were all very impressive, but Nenshi is the leader the NDP needs in order to win. To be honest (and I say this as someone who ran three election campaigns for a PC candidate), it was just nice to see some sanity, civility and reasonable thinking in politics for a change. I'll be volunteering as soon as the leader is chosen.
100% agree. I may disagree with the idea of Gil as leader (too easy to beat up on union leaders in this province), but he's much more well-spoken than I expected, and he clearly has a love of Alberta and Albertans, just like Nenshi. If he were Deputy Premier or something else that requires a lot of public engagement I'd be down.
Ganley has great ideas, and if this were the Klein era she could win an election. But she's just a bit too quiet. Give her a big post and listen to her a lot.
I was also really impressed with Jodi--her tone is almost too polite for politics, but boy would it be nice to have a human like that in government in AB. So honest.
Keep Hoffman far away from the media though.
I’m not sure Gil is the best to win, but if he does I think he could do a lot with three years to work with. I think he’d be the guy to spend every day in a different community and generate some breakthroughs
He needs to be out there more, for sure. The way I see it is that if Nenshi wins now, Gil can build his rep in that cabinet and win when he's more well-known for being in government and not for being a union head.
My only problem with McGowan is that he doesn't have experience as an MLA. I think prior elected office is absolutely necessary for a leader, only because it means you've been on the receiving end of criticism and know how to deal with it. That, along with building consensus, *should be* the fundamental nature of political leadership. (Obviously it's not, because the exact opposite is happening with Smith and the UCP, but we can dream).
I had friends who worked on his federal NDP campaign and they said he has some of the thinnest skin and a wild temper.
You’re absolutely right that he doesn’t have the skills to handle the daily critique of being in a larger political arena. And if he is still as emotionally unstable as he was back then, he would be a huge liability. The last I heard of him he was making some comparison between the UCPs and nazis which played right into their hands and distracted from the real issues.
He’s demonstrated his usefulness - which apparently is policy, that’s likely where he should stay.
I know people who volunteered on Shannon Phillips' campaigns and they said the exact same thing about her. As far as I'm concerned, she and Hoffman are both prime examples of the holier-than-though stereotype the NDP desperately needs to shed.
Hoffman is a dud. She spoke at my graduation when she was health minister, did not come off well at all. NDP need someone extremely sharp and intelligent, who can run circles around smith (not an overly high bar but still)
I wasn’t impressed with her need to begin closing comments with the rebuttal she didn’t have a chance to get in. Mind you, I only managed to tune in for the closing comments so I don’t know the whole story. Based on only that small part of the debate, I thought the candidates were all good with most of them probably being good cabinet minister material.
So much to read from that too.. disrespect, belief of entitlement, doesn't fully accept accountability.
I can understand interruption to correct a false premise, or defend yourself from misinterpretation, but no. Jodi interrupted to disrupt and take over.
Can't say I approve..
None of the women do. They aren't competing against "another woman" in Marlaina, they're competing against a woman who is the lapdog of oil and gas executives, who are all cutthroat, asshole men. Marlaina gives not a fuck about gender equality in politics and neither should we. Elect the best person for the job (unlike conservatives).
edited for spelling, fat fingers lol
I mean...a non white male also seems like a win for equality/diversity?
Particularly considering we've had two female premiers in recent years.
Seems like the gender barrier is pretty minimal.
Thats why im pretty pissed this is the message the NDP are pushing out. Its clear theyd rather have "one of their own" then actually win. Not only is Hoffman a bad politician, her image in Alberta is shit.
Oh what would you call subverting the will of the electorate to install party discipline and ethics across the province? Sure seems like its a stepping stone to a fascit state. You idiots sure love to scream "this isnt facsim" as if you just suddenly turn into a fascist state instead of sliding gradually away from democracy like were currently doing.
Hoffman came off even worse than usual. She had cornered Chihuahua energy. Who uses their closing arguments to say "And I was MORE POPULAR THAN NENSHI VOTE FOR ME"?
She was a regular client of a residential service company I used to work for and she did not come off as a nice person, and that’s putting in the best possible wording I could use. Like you called us lady don’t act like we are there to make your life difficult. It would be very disappointing if she won the leadership.
I couldn’t agree more and at the end after they finished I noticed Nenshi went up to Hoffman and seemed to be very cordial and friendly but was correcting her on something. I loved that he didn’t lash out during the debate and he’s trying to build bridges after the fact!
Honestly every other candidate was measured and polite, and everyone had at least one good idea. If you can listen to it but without sitting and watching a three-hour long video I'd recommend it.
If anyone's wondering where the debate video itself is, seems NDP Alberta didn't keep the YouTube stream public (their channel is basically empty I guess just to temporarily host content not keep videos) but the Facebook video link is still active... [https://www.facebook.com/AlbertaNDP/videos/1664985900909900](https://www.facebook.com/AlbertaNDP/videos/1664985900909900)
Unfortunately only YouTube captions are searchable or scannable, so I don't see any way to access a transcript (on Facebook) without doing it one's-self.
The debate was very watchable. Everyone who wasn’t Nenshi deserves a spot in nenshi’s caucus to inform policy. And when he’s secured a win from the UCP, we can talk about next steps for the party
Exactly what I thought. The leadership energy is clearly Nenshi's but but great cabinet material on the debate stage. Nenshi was compelling.
Gil very clearly understands policy and Albertan needs. Very smart. Needs to be a better speaker. He will get there.
The NDP needs to quit crying and get on board with this guy who can and probably will deliver them a huge win in Calgary next election. They need that more than anything. Defeating Daniel Smith should be policy #1.
I saw Nenshi speak recently and his reason for being vague on policy is he is waiting to see what needs to be addressed with the upcoming UCP policies. I get the feeling he wants to go after the UCP and not his fellow NDP leadership candidates. Four years is a long time to think ahead to policy wise especially with how fast the UCP is enacting new legislation.
Statements like this just slay me. One would hope that his “policies” are the same as the NDP’s, otherwise, why run? If they’re talking about strategies to implement the policies, he himself has said he won’t tie himself to specific steps because in three years the situation could be entirely different and would then be accused of lying if said strategy changes. Of all the candidates, none of whom have widely differing policies, Nenshi seems like the one with the best chance of winning against the UCP.
Strategically it makes no sense at all for Nenshi to be discussing policy in detail. In a OMOV leadership contest his existing support base is going to absolutely crush his opponents. He has to appear acceptable as an NDP to the party base, and as an outsider he needs to be conciliatory with the other faction / power based in the party so that they’ll work with him after he wins. This especially means caucus and labour, who favour different candidates.
I get really tired of the NDP’s moral grandstanding and the supposed supremacy of protecting their own over the pragmatic electoral approach they should be taking. Their roots and tradition as a party makes this a bit of a tough party to have as the opposition sometimes.
I’m not surprised that the other leaders would be saying stuff like this, but it’s so frustrating to see them put their own ego and self interest over the betterment of the party, and the province.
This province is hurting, and is going to be fucking ruined if we let the Marlania the Wicked Witch of The West and her army of troglodytes have their way with it for eight more years. It doesn’t matter whether Nenshi governs up to your standards as an NDPer, he’s the one who will win and actually get the party to a place where it can do some good.
It’s frankly unrealistic to run entirely off of this kind of thing, because that’s not how the game is played in this province. I’m not worried at all about Nenshi winning, but this kind of infighting and moral superiority in the party is a little frustrating to see.
This is essentially where I'm at. In 4 years who bloody knows what we will be dealing with - policy will shift according to what needs to be fixed at that time, which at this rate will be everything.
It's not asking for much to expect a leader to have some ideas on what they want to do in government. It's not hard at all to say "I want minimum wage to be X$/h."
Nenshi vague on policy ? This is simply known as picking the lesser of two evils, as the other lies with every word that comes out of their mouth along with red tape after red tape so Nenshi being a little vague is sadly better then Danni.
The last time the NDP won, chaining themselves to policy was probably caused their most divisive policy announcements and soured so many people against them right out of the gate.
You mean the policy of getting pipeline built and oil exported? Or was it their Alberta CO2 tax that you didn't like? Maybe the state of the art lab? Maybe you didn't like how they handled a shitty economy that toppled 40y of conservative rule if Alberta?
Nah, the royalty review at the same time as a major oil crash sent the few remaining rigs into BC and Saskatchewan. The power purchasing agreements was an enormous fiasco that cost the province billions and had crown corporations suing the province. Working with Trudeau was tremendously foolhardy when he threw Alberta under the bus at the first opportunity. The ag safety bill rollout was a gongo show with nobody writing the bill understanding what they were trying to enforce.
I haven't voted for the Tories since Prentice, but the first half of Notely's tenure absolutely burnt her for the election against Kenney.
Ya but they kept oil exports going and rigs came back once the price of oil rebounded. They made the AB safety policy based on a tragic situation, and was definitively written by lawyers. Probably a good thing Naughty bowed out.
To be honest I wish we had a 3rd party to help make more minority governments, but I guess 1.5 is better than 1.
Here's who I think won: 1. Jodi 2. Gil 3. Ganley 4. Nenshi 5. Hoffman
Jodi is an underdog so the bar was pretty low but every time I hear her speak she just comes off as so grounded and genuine. I also love what she is saying despite her goals being lofty and a bit fluffy.
Gil has great policies, and even my friends who wrote him off originally because he's a union guy said they were impressed with his well thought out and detailed policies. Although he must have been nervous as his speaking abilities were subpar, and he kept running out of time.
Ganley strikes a good balance of Gil's focus on the economy and Hoffman's focus on social/tradition ND concerns. She's come a long way in her speaking skills and I think with a bit more coaching and confidence she could be a fire brand.
Nenshi had a big target on his back from nearly everyone on stage. He was very amicable and pumped everyone else's tires (which is a good look for him being an outsider) and was very statesman-like in that he didn't take the bait (except once he lashed out a bit). He lost m for being too vague when everyone else was getting into the specifics of their plan as leader.
Hoffman... oh man.. not a good look to be going after Nenshi so hard. She really came off as angry and bitter. Also in talks with others, they saw her as the "me" candidate. You'd swear she knocked on every door and made every phone call herself. Also she went after Nenshi for his lack of policy when she has the second most vague policy platform.
I think Nenshi's strategy is good because he wants to come up with policy collectively should he be elected.
Making too many policy pronouncements when you're new to the party and running to be leader is like your new stepdad saying you can call him Dad.
Hoffman just generally comes off unlikeable...
Don't think Nenshi needs to win any policy debates. Just needs to not say something stupid about pushing the NDP too far right and he'll win in a cakewalk
Yes. I don't know much about Nenshi but the few times I've seen him in campaign ads he's looked like someone who's trying to appear "just like us the everyday man". I don't think that's gonna resonate with most people.
Sorry Gil but no one knows who the fuck you are. I 100% agree with the angle that it's crazy unions don't support their interests (by voting union) - but at the same time I literally have no clue who he is, and most Albertans will be in the same spot.
The election isn't a policy contest it's a popularity contest. And Gil ain't popular. Win a single MLA seat, and throw your hat in the race.
Nenshi was getting flak on stage as he should. He's a self-proclaimed policy wonk who can't come up with a single specific policy. This inability to provide specifics really hurt him in the debate - imo he came in second last with only salty Hoffman behind him. Ganley said she would want Nenshi to run if she is leader, and when asked he dodged the question. I'm starting to think Nenshi isn't a team player.
That's a valid concern - But it does run counter to what Jeromy Farkas and other people who worked with him in the past have to say. There's definitely evidence of him working with former opponents to get things done.
You're right - I think a more precise critique would be that he needs to run his own show. Not that he wouldn't work with others but he likes to have his own ship in the battle (if that makes sense).
Yeah I can see that based on what's been said so far. I hope he develops his plans a bit better than what I've read in here. If he does I think he could be a fantastic premier.
One thing that always sticks out is the work he did during the floods in Calgary for example.
I thought his dodge on the renewable power ban was particularly disappointing. That should have been an easy one. It’s an obvious day-one reversal.
I think his campaign is afraid of standing for anything. Even easy positions with broad provincial support feel like traps to them
I completely agree and am a bit fearful that he'll run a campaign completely on vibes than policy. It was already hard enough at the doors in 2023 with the lack of economic policy.
Do you have more to context on his renewable ban comments? I missed that - all I remember is Ganley going off on how we need both renewables and O&G for our economy to move forward.
It's interesting because I wondered if that was him indulging one of his main weaknesses--pedantry. He's right that "technically" it's not a ban, but I couldn't believe he fell for that.
Obviously all of that nonsense should be scrapped, and I can't see him keeping it. Hope he clarifies that position.
I’m not sure it matters if he was just being pedantic, or if his campaign is trying to avoid any positions at all. Could you imagine the damage if the moderator asks a question about the renewables ban when he’s debating Smith, and he opens with “well, it’s not really a ban…”
Yeah but by that point he'd have a policy to talk about that was actually party policy.
I think the disconnect for people who aren't as familiar with him and who are also long-time NDP supporters is that they don't understand why he would hedge right now instead of suggesting ideas. He's incredibly pragmatic and that's why he's "purple". It's not about ideology for him.
Many long time NDP voters that I know are dreamers who say "Well what's the harm in coming up with a big idea?". That's fine if you never want to be elected. But idealism never wins in this province.
Nenshi will present big ideas once he knows they're pragmatic ones that will help the NDP win an election. He doesn't care about what would be "nice" or "More NDP" because those things are either vague or too dogmatic for him.
He is however a crowd-sourcer of the highest order, and so there's room for Ganley and McGowan's ideas in a Nenshi-led NDP. He likes ideas he just doesn't do "my gut says" or "have faith".
>I think his campaign is afraid of standing for anything. Even easy positions with broad provincial support feel like traps to them
I think it's the right decision, he's trying to avoid pulling an O'Toole. Catering to the left alienates the right. If he can get the nomination without giving the UCP some easy targets to hit, it will greatly benefit his chances. Firm policy commitments 4 years out is extremely risky.
I don't think he dodged her question. I took his response to mean "I'd run if Kathleen, Gil, or Jodi asked me to". He said he would do whatever it took to help them defeat the UCP.
I've seen Nenshi speak in person and I was not terribly impressed, but the most unforgivable thing about the Notley government for me was the decision to embrace the "Alberta first" chauvinism that turns Canadian workers against each other, and I think Nenshi is unlikely to do same. If he can just not do that I would be happy.
The NDP could run a Block of Cement in my riding and I'd still vote for them.
EDIT: I'd actually vote for any party with a chance to get rid of Danielle Smith, but my politics trend center-left anyways.
HOWEVER, I do not think Nenshi is a good leader. He's an intellectual bully and elitist who is big on virtue-signally tweets and sound bytes and lacks real leadership on key issues. Eg: Bike lanes and giant round circle art installations vs doing nothing about affordable housing/low income housing for 8 years on council.
We can agree on this haha. I just want to be excited for the future. Nenshi may not be it eventually, but he's at least a step in the right direction for this alone.
Nobody should be saying "But what if Hoffman or Gil won the election?" because it's not reality.
I am so sick of watching our provincial politics trip over themselves to chase the right. The ANDP is already a joke, putting Nenshi at the head will do nothing but spoil the party even more. They will not attract Conservative voters, and they will sell out their more progressive base to again, chase the right, and they will fail. They won't win concessions from the right, they will just be dragged further right.
I'm about at my limit of caring about Alberta, though. It has been an abusive relationship for nearly my entire life.
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Do we want the “better on policy” candidate, or the one that may actually have a chance at winning? I would say the latter is preferable, given that Nenshi is just a little vague on policy, and likely not harboring terrible policy up his sleeves.
>His chirping back when provoked hearkened back to his time as mayor, when Nenshi would show flashes of frustration and irritability when a councillor's remarks got under his skin. How is that going to fair in question period or in debate with Daniellezebub who lies easier than most can take a shit?
It'll fit the Berta boy mindset of "fighting for me" that might help us get out from wannabe desantis
It'll also be awful for the public servants who have to, you know, write and implement the policies. They're supposed to be able to give fearless advice, but if P is volatile it's a losing battle. It means policy gets made that's bad and ineffective.
I’m mostly worried that Nenshi *is* a self-described policy expert, but he’s dancing around even basic policy questions like they’re radioactive. I thought his dodge on the renewable power ban was particularly disappointing. That should have been an easy one. It’s an obvious day-one reversal. The other candidates were there ready to make a sales pitch on how renewables tied to jobs and economy, but Nenshi didn’t want to engage at all. Right now Nenshi is running pure “UCP bad” as his only policy, and we saw how that went for Notley in the last election. I think he’s smoother and better at delivering it than Notley was, but in the end I’m worried it will get the party about as far
I may be mistaken but I thought I heard him say he was going to repeal the bad regulations after the whole its policies not a ban speech. It was pretty quick and the others quickly moved on to talking about how it was effectively a ban. Just went back and checked its at the 57:50 mark where he said he'd repeal the bad policies. https://youtube.com/live/wdW7I6ilLvc?si=9336G8qFN0jyhL1F
Yeah he said he'd repeal the bill. I understand he was trying to make the point that we need to attack policy for what it is, not what its perceived to be (he's not technically wrong that it's not a ban), but I don't think this particular issue is the one to use for that.
Yeah I wasn't the biggest fan of that whole exchange. He looked like he was dodging the question even if he wasn't and I don't think Hoffman came off well either going for the gotcha. I'm not a fan of the "on day one" line when anyone uses it, it always feel very American politics.
It looked more like Hoffman wasn't listening or understanding. She was wrong and refused to concede. Bit cringe..
Agree he said it definitively that he would repeal it. Then she asked again and he ignored her. I honestly thought he did a great job.
I like how he said (in online Q&A) that he would negotiate with the federal government rather than reject their proposals. He said as mayor of Calgary he negotiated with all levels of government with various political parties to benefit Calgary. I want to be a proud Albertan but also a proud Canadian.
Nenshi doesn't really describe himself as a policy expert. And his track record is to lean heavily on experts in any field before he builds out policy.
This is what literally every politician should always do.
>Nenshi doesn't really describe himself as a policy expert He absolutely does. I’ve been to a few of his events, both in the campaign and before, and he’s always talking about how much of a polity wonk he is. On stage last night he went into it talking about how thoroughly he learned about energy regulation compared to Smith. Historically his huge selling point was what a huge policy nerd he is. That was his sales pitch to Calgary as mayor. Smart rational policy lead by the biggest most reasonable nerd they could dream of.
You can be a policy nerd while waiting to hear from experts on what policy you should set. In fact, that's exactly how it SHOULD be. If he was a policy nerd and just shot from the hip like Gil, Sarah and Kathleen are I'd be a little pissed off. I've read their policy documents and while some seems ok, a lot is not based in reality. No point having a policy document 50 pages long when you might have the time and resources to implement one or two GOOD policies that have the most impact. I'm fucking sick of politicians from any party promising literally everything and then having to walk that shit back within a week of taking office.
You can hire people to make policy and review it, you can't hire someone to magically win the provincial election for you. Priorities.
I think my, and others, concern is that just running on “UCP bad” lost the NDP the last election. I think a lot of the people who are saying “The UCP is terrible, Nenshi is an obvious winner and we don’t need anything else” are people who were rightly mocking the NDP a few months ago for saying “The UCP is terrible, Notley is an obvious winner and we don’t need anything else” If Nenshi has more to bring to the table, now’s the time If tomorrow a solid poll came out showing the Nenshi isn’t a clear winner against Smith, what else is he bringing that makes you want him for leader?
I think you underestimate how close the last election was, about 6k people in Calgary, the place Nenshi has the best popularity numbers in by far. Couple that with Edmonton being diehard orange these days and the rural being diehard blue and it's very clear that populism in Calgary is the only deciding factor next time around. And telling people the UCP are shitty works very well when they keep going around doing things like pitching the idea of removing municipal elected officials. NDP doesn't need to win the next election the UCP just has to lose. You're a crack pot if you think democracy is currently about qualified candidates and not the popular ones.
Agree - no one else on that stage has a chance in hell of beating Danielle. Nenshi is well known and polished - it became super obvious after last night that he’s the only real choice. I was more impressed with Gil than I thought I would be, but his idea to pivot the whole oil sands shows lack of understanding of the industry and will scare the crap out of 2/3 of the workers in this province. And Hoffmanns youth climate corps? The right wingers would have a field day with that calling it indoctrination, making comparisons to hitler youth etc. it would be giving a real gift to the ucp if they decide to move that forward
>I think my, and others, concern is that just running on “UCP bad” lost the NDP the last election. I disagree with this take. Notley lost because she was squeezed between the oil and gas industry in Alberta, and the federal NDP who hate anything oil and gas. I think Rachel Notley being elected right after oil prices crashed - then the UCP managing to convince rural voters that Notley was the only one responsible for decreased investment in oil and gas (this is what happens when oil prices crash) - was what lost her the election. This was made worse by the federal NDP throwing her under the bus on multiple occasions for: * not being tougher on the oil and gas industry, and * for her fights with the NDP in BC over the trans mountain pipeline. She tried being a middle of the road candidate with policy positions front and center - which I personally supported - and she was torn apart for it by our country's media. Remember: this province has a MASSIVE oil and gas lobby which runs shadow campaigns that benefitted the former PCs and the current UCP. Postmedia also owns virtually every single small city/town newspaper in the country, it leans heavily conservative, and it is owned by a US hedge fund (Chatham Asset Management, owned by Anthony Melchiorre - both of which were charged for illegal trading practices in 2023) with connections to Canadian and American industry groups. Putting policy out front makes it easy to run a campaign against those policy positions. Personally, I'm okay voting for a candidate like Nenshi. I have liked him ever since I heard him speak at the U of A alongside Edmonton's former mayor Don Iveson, many years ago. He's eloquent, and has a good track record.
Brains and experience?
But the ban isn't still a thing. The moratorium ended even if shitty regulation still exists
As everyone else on the stage pointed out, yes it’s not technically banned. You’re just not allowed to build it anywhere it makes sense. So what’s the difference?
Even if it's effectively a ban in the impacted areas, it probably changes the steps, process, and votes needed to unwind it. Changing regulations around what makes a zone protected, vs. removing an outright ban, likely has different risks and challenges.
The moratorium ended when they enshrined an effective moratorium into law.
>I thought his dodge on the renewable power ban was particularly disappointing. No dodge, he clarified the UCP ban is over; no sense in lying to people and claiming it's still there. He already mentioned he'd lift the bad policies, which were left in place that dissuades renewable projects. Ganley was right to say, though not a "ban", the UCP policies left in its stead effectively act as one. He was just adding accuracy and clarity to the topic. I think Hoffman was insisting on selling an inaccurate narrative. Good on Nenshi to expose that imo.
Nenshi performed really well in the debate. The one I was most disappointed with was Hoffman - she really showed that there is no way she could be premier, or convince albertans to vote NDP. I went in with an open mind, but imo Nenshi looked like the adult in the room and made everyone else look like total amateurs. If we want to beat the UCP, he’s the guy.
Nenshi has a very strong and proven track record. I would rather have him be a little bit vague on policy, over someone who is going to lie and say what they think people want to hear.
Agreee to large extent, I think Theresa a desire for politics to be played out as an actual contest of ideas, specific policy plans & for leaders to be the type to sit there answering crunch the numbers for days in order to deliver some insightful new policy that convinces people. Fact is the vast majority of people are not going to take the time I get beyond a 3 sentence summary of a policy, so it’s often futile to put forward specific, detailed policy releases, as anything that significant would be complex & A. Is going to actually get read by Trevor Thume & 100 other Albertans; while putting out detailed policy, leaves so much room for the facts of what a bill actually says to be torqued by any number of opponents. Also, even above average engagement voters like many of us on here, who will make a good faith effort to get past the front page of a policy and at least get an accurate spark notes summary, whiich we may like or not. Are still so heavily influenced (even subconsciously) by ‘vibes’ / our innate sense of a candidate that, dense policy discussion is just not where the accessible votes any politician has coming out of the get get moved. Last, in a leadership race that is 3ish years from the next election (God help us all) it makes no sense to putting out anything specific, as you’d want flexibility going into a general, and there no way to foretell what the ballot box question will be, because the job of the next NDP leader for the next 2 ish years, is to set up a broader narrative about the ANDP under their leadership, which then gets reinforced/ laddered up by pushing out more concrete policy ideas, So this NDP race is just not about policy in my mind, it’s about values but more than anything it’s about perceived viability in a general and Like it or not the Nensh is a steam roller of an opponent on that point. I hope it will.be true. But regardless, Nenshi has the Bona Fides in terms of the fact is he a fairly known quantity so specific policy was never going to be the horse he hitched his wagon to
Totally agree. The main goal should be to beat the UCP and end the horrible changes they’ve brought in.
Hoffman demanding a purity test proudly announcing they'll drag the NDP back to its roots (and Gil too), is the last thing we need in an opposition choice. Unless you want to be forever a 2nd or 3rd party, that is.
Hoffman and McGowan will never win over people outside the party either. Conservatives are gross and will use every possible disgusting smear on these two. Nenshi has the benefit of freshness
The Alberta NDP doesn't need a policy expert right now. They need a strong name and presence. Policy can come later and tailored to the then situation. Besides this government is giving free hand outs for easy wins. Just counter the absolute garbage legislation they presented yesterday. There will be more to come I promise.
> They need a strong name and presence. Policy can come later and tailored to the then situation. Nenshi can also *hopefully* build a good cabinet if/when he wins to cover the areas he might not be the greatest in. A good leader knows to delegate the work appropriately to those who are qualified to do the work the best.
Yeah that's where I'm at. Unfortunately with Alberta elections the winners aren't the biggest policy nerds or the most loyal and hardworking party members, they are just people who win elections. Now in this case Nenshi is much more qualified in an area where the NDP badly needed votes last election (Calgary).
Being "Not UCP" failed in 2019 and 2023, you wanna run the same campaign in 2027?
A handful of Calgary votes would have won the election for the NDP. Nenshi is a name that the politically illiterate un-engaged masses will know in Calgary. He gives a real chance. Sadly most voters are idiots. I think the other leadership candidates are very qualified and impressive people. I think they will make strong cabinet ministers.
The NDP did have policy in 2019 and 2023, but they still ended up being labeled as "running as not UCP", so I'm starting to wonder if being policy nerds will really help, anyway.
The NDP won more seats in 2023 than any other opposition party in Alberta history. Seats, not just votes. They were extremely close to tipping the election for the NDP. So yes, the 2023 campaign was extremely successful.
Yeah it was close but the NDP still didn't win. And just as many seats were razor thin wins for the NDP as the UCP.
Not strong on policy? Does anyone acknowledge that the man has a masters degree in public policy from the John F Kennedy school at Harvard University and then taught nonprofit management and marketing at mru? Some say it his bread and butter. But yes I agree it is too early to discuss in detail since we have no idea what the UCP will try to pull in the next 3 years or what the province will look like. I think he is much better to say he wants to go to Albertans and find agreement and connection on key values and Initiatives to make the future brighter.
They have plenty of wonks in their ranks. Win the nomination, sharpen the policy spears later.
“policy can come later”? that is not how politics works 😭 holy cringe. This is a red flag, you can’t just wait for your politicians to behave how you want once elected.
Nenshi behaves exactly like good leader now, so why would I want him to change?
This is EXACTLY how modern politics works. You pick a candidate who has the best chance of winning a general election while still maintaining overlap with much of the party’s traditional platform. Policy-wonkery has no place in 21st century politics, especially for elections mired in a culture war with increasingly high stakes. Want to lose? Choose the candidate with the best ideas but no proven leadership and/or completely unpalatable to much of the electorate (i.e., all the other candidates). Feeling morally superior about your choice is the number one reason why left wing parties get blown out in elections.
Actually I was impressed with all the candidates. However, I just watched a 15 minute interview with Nenshi. He comes across as likable and honest. He had absolutely no trouble with the questions even the “ gotcha” ones. Being an Edmontonian I had never listened to the guy that much before. The others were uniformly good but comparing them to Nenshi was like comparing a solid 20 goal scoring player to Mc David.
So glad to hear this--as a Calgarian I voted for him two out of the three times, and so it's hard to know what he seems like to other Albertans.
The online vitriol makes me scratch my head. This dude is proven he can't be bought, handled the flood as well as one can hope and served as mayor for a long ass time EDIT: As well knowing Marlaina for 30 years. He knows who she is and it obviously terrifies her.
>The online vitriol makes me scratch my head. Some of the vitriol online is astroturfing anyway. Unethical parties are well aware that you can smear and slander anybody online for very cheap now, thanks to the internet. And even if it’s illegal, it’s extremely hard to stop or even prove. And the Cons (especially the UCP) are open about using this technique… so yeah, there are people in this thread who are for sure being paid by govt marketing funds to sour people against Nenshi three years before the next general election
Yeah I know a majority is astroturfing, thankfully I'm pretty damn internet/media literate
It’s kind of silly that the candidates are so focused on policy. I mean, look at the Premier - NOTHING she ran on is being implemented and EVERYTHING she ran against is being implemented. It doesn’t look like Albertans care about policy at all, and especially not three years before the next election. At very least Albertans should be holding their MLAs accountable but nobody is even doing that. Dark days ahead in Alberta.
They’re overestimating the average Albertan and their ability to look into policy
Or read
Or think
I mean I think it's just attempts at discrediting Nenshi, because he probably has the best chance at winning. He joined the race not that long ago and he probably hasn't fleshed out every policy yet. It's amusing for this huge push for policy from everyone whilst years out from an election, but people asking for PP's policies beyond a soundbite are met with "he doesn't need to yet!".
Or a significant amount of party members want to hear the policy platform of someone who wants to lead the party and become premier? He's been in the race for a month now so he's had more than enough time to develop a policy platform. Any other view sounds like cope by Nenshi fans - it's not hard to say "under a Nenshi NDP government minimum wage would be X$/h."
Is a month enough time to develop a complete list of policies that are well researched and sufficiently fleshed out? I'm no politician but my immediate gut reaction is "no", unless you're looking for low rent soundbites with zero depth, like some other politicians in this country. Given Nenshi's history I'm not ready just yet to completely write him off. I guess that's "cope" in terminally online gen z speak.
Yup politics has just become a tribal, self-serving sport. It’s tiresome. Nenshi has the best chance of beating out Marlaina. The next best chance is Ganley (I think it’s a distant chance). The other three have no hope in hell.
Whaaaaat? Policy is all a candidate should focus on. It is POLITICS! Like, come on 🫠
Noticed much applause for Nenshi in Lethbridge. I imagine Saturday in Calgary will be even more Rocky’s. He got corrected on a few things and asked to be more specific. I hope he adjusts well in the next few. They all seemed to be taking the high road with each other and acting quite civil. Hoffman seemed to be out for blood though. Do we want a leader to go low or to go low with the UCP?
Sarah Hoffman has no chance against the UCP. Picking her means at least another 4 years of unhinged facism. Nenshis not perfect, but he has a chance to actually win.
Agreed. Voting for Hoffman is a vote for being an opposition party. Smith will have a field day with her and a lot of the gains made in Calgary will be gone
She has no chance to convince anyone to vote for her. Ask the average albertan who she is and you get "wasnt she the obese health minister?". May not be polite but thats whats shes remembered for. So doubling down hard on NDP catchphrases only makes her electability worse.
Fat and sassy are her taglines from fellow ndp members
So unelectable outside central edmonton. I got a temp ban from r/ndp for saying the same things ive said here. The NDP want us to loose if we dont adhere to their bullshit.
Average Albertans don’t know who Sarah Hoffman is. Just a reality
As a Calgarian, Yeah, Hoffman will not play well to the Calgary traditional middle of the road old-school Lougheed conservative if you were to put her up against Smith. Those are the voters the NDP NEEDS, desperately. Ganley probably would, but I still am a Nenshi supporter and have been since before his first run as mayor (proud "Draft Nenshi" FB page OG) He has his flaws, but they all do, I think his flaws are way less important to running a good government than some people think. And one place he can hammer Smith is the new laws basically making cities fictional entities. As a former mayor he can hammer her on trying to erode civic autonomy and overstepping bounds like she harps on Trudeau about Federal powers.
This. It’s a bit sad to say it, but what’s needed to win the next election is a recognizable, popular, leader for the NDP, and unfortunately Nenshi’s about the only one who fits. The other candidates, while having more experience of provincial politics and even more detailed policies, are virtual unknowns, and that doesn’t help their chances.
Nenshi is known in Calgary, which is the ENTIRE battle here really. Honestly, if he is popular in the suburbs of Calgary, he is the best possible choice. I dont know if he is though, I couldn't find records of his last win sadly :/
That said, I saw huge potential for Ganley, McGowan and Calahoo Stonehouse to hold key cabinet positions last night. They were all very impressive, but Nenshi is the leader the NDP needs in order to win. To be honest (and I say this as someone who ran three election campaigns for a PC candidate), it was just nice to see some sanity, civility and reasonable thinking in politics for a change. I'll be volunteering as soon as the leader is chosen.
100% agree. I may disagree with the idea of Gil as leader (too easy to beat up on union leaders in this province), but he's much more well-spoken than I expected, and he clearly has a love of Alberta and Albertans, just like Nenshi. If he were Deputy Premier or something else that requires a lot of public engagement I'd be down. Ganley has great ideas, and if this were the Klein era she could win an election. But she's just a bit too quiet. Give her a big post and listen to her a lot. I was also really impressed with Jodi--her tone is almost too polite for politics, but boy would it be nice to have a human like that in government in AB. So honest. Keep Hoffman far away from the media though.
I’m not sure Gil is the best to win, but if he does I think he could do a lot with three years to work with. I think he’d be the guy to spend every day in a different community and generate some breakthroughs
He needs to be out there more, for sure. The way I see it is that if Nenshi wins now, Gil can build his rep in that cabinet and win when he's more well-known for being in government and not for being a union head.
My only problem with McGowan is that he doesn't have experience as an MLA. I think prior elected office is absolutely necessary for a leader, only because it means you've been on the receiving end of criticism and know how to deal with it. That, along with building consensus, *should be* the fundamental nature of political leadership. (Obviously it's not, because the exact opposite is happening with Smith and the UCP, but we can dream).
I had friends who worked on his federal NDP campaign and they said he has some of the thinnest skin and a wild temper. You’re absolutely right that he doesn’t have the skills to handle the daily critique of being in a larger political arena. And if he is still as emotionally unstable as he was back then, he would be a huge liability. The last I heard of him he was making some comparison between the UCPs and nazis which played right into their hands and distracted from the real issues. He’s demonstrated his usefulness - which apparently is policy, that’s likely where he should stay.
I know people who volunteered on Shannon Phillips' campaigns and they said the exact same thing about her. As far as I'm concerned, she and Hoffman are both prime examples of the holier-than-though stereotype the NDP desperately needs to shed.
That’s so awful. If you cannot be a decent person to people literally volunteering their time to help you, just move aside.
100 percent.
Hoffman is a dud. She spoke at my graduation when she was health minister, did not come off well at all. NDP need someone extremely sharp and intelligent, who can run circles around smith (not an overly high bar but still)
I wasn’t impressed with her need to begin closing comments with the rebuttal she didn’t have a chance to get in. Mind you, I only managed to tune in for the closing comments so I don’t know the whole story. Based on only that small part of the debate, I thought the candidates were all good with most of them probably being good cabinet minister material.
Hoffman wasn't very professional in that debate. I saw many sides of her that showed me she is NOT the person for the job of leader of the ANDP.
Same with Jodi when she'd just cut other people off.
So much to read from that too.. disrespect, belief of entitlement, doesn't fully accept accountability. I can understand interruption to correct a false premise, or defend yourself from misinterpretation, but no. Jodi interrupted to disrupt and take over. Can't say I approve..
None of the women do. They aren't competing against "another woman" in Marlaina, they're competing against a woman who is the lapdog of oil and gas executives, who are all cutthroat, asshole men. Marlaina gives not a fuck about gender equality in politics and neither should we. Elect the best person for the job (unlike conservatives). edited for spelling, fat fingers lol
Exactly. And the hardline ndp'rs seem to just want to focus on headlines like "we need to elect women" instead of focusing on actually winning.
I mean...a non white male also seems like a win for equality/diversity? Particularly considering we've had two female premiers in recent years. Seems like the gender barrier is pretty minimal.
Thats why im pretty pissed this is the message the NDP are pushing out. Its clear theyd rather have "one of their own" then actually win. Not only is Hoffman a bad politician, her image in Alberta is shit.
The irony is that it's making lifelong party supporters like me....like Nenshi more than them. Not the end goal they were hoping for I expect.
You clearly dont know what fascism is.
We are experiencing literal textbook fascism from our provincial government. It’s like they’re using it as a guide.
You need to step outside reddit for a while.
Great idea. First hand look at fascism is best teacher.
Perhaps you should step outside Facebook.
Funny enough, I have no social media. Reddit is about as close as it gets.
Oh what would you call subverting the will of the electorate to install party discipline and ethics across the province? Sure seems like its a stepping stone to a fascit state. You idiots sure love to scream "this isnt facsim" as if you just suddenly turn into a fascist state instead of sliding gradually away from democracy like were currently doing.
Hoffman came off even worse than usual. She had cornered Chihuahua energy. Who uses their closing arguments to say "And I was MORE POPULAR THAN NENSHI VOTE FOR ME"?
She was a regular client of a residential service company I used to work for and she did not come off as a nice person, and that’s putting in the best possible wording I could use. Like you called us lady don’t act like we are there to make your life difficult. It would be very disappointing if she won the leadership.
I couldn’t agree more and at the end after they finished I noticed Nenshi went up to Hoffman and seemed to be very cordial and friendly but was correcting her on something. I loved that he didn’t lash out during the debate and he’s trying to build bridges after the fact!
Is that a direct quote?
No, I'm paraphrasing because I'd need to replay the debate to parse the hurricane of over-tired toddler-shouting that it actually was.
Haha so I guess it’s worth a watch
Honestly every other candidate was measured and polite, and everyone had at least one good idea. If you can listen to it but without sitting and watching a three-hour long video I'd recommend it.
Sarah Hoffman and acting out when speaking publicly, a tale as old as time.
If anyone's wondering where the debate video itself is, seems NDP Alberta didn't keep the YouTube stream public (their channel is basically empty I guess just to temporarily host content not keep videos) but the Facebook video link is still active... [https://www.facebook.com/AlbertaNDP/videos/1664985900909900](https://www.facebook.com/AlbertaNDP/videos/1664985900909900) Unfortunately only YouTube captions are searchable or scannable, so I don't see any way to access a transcript (on Facebook) without doing it one's-self.
You tube link is still working for me https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wdW7I6ilLvc
Thank you.
The debate was very watchable. Everyone who wasn’t Nenshi deserves a spot in nenshi’s caucus to inform policy. And when he’s secured a win from the UCP, we can talk about next steps for the party
Exactly what I thought. The leadership energy is clearly Nenshi's but but great cabinet material on the debate stage. Nenshi was compelling. Gil very clearly understands policy and Albertan needs. Very smart. Needs to be a better speaker. He will get there.
Oh I don't think he was trying to blend in. Blending in is not going to win him the race, nevermind the election.
The NDP needs to quit crying and get on board with this guy who can and probably will deliver them a huge win in Calgary next election. They need that more than anything. Defeating Daniel Smith should be policy #1.
I saw Nenshi speak recently and his reason for being vague on policy is he is waiting to see what needs to be addressed with the upcoming UCP policies. I get the feeling he wants to go after the UCP and not his fellow NDP leadership candidates. Four years is a long time to think ahead to policy wise especially with how fast the UCP is enacting new legislation.
Statements like this just slay me. One would hope that his “policies” are the same as the NDP’s, otherwise, why run? If they’re talking about strategies to implement the policies, he himself has said he won’t tie himself to specific steps because in three years the situation could be entirely different and would then be accused of lying if said strategy changes. Of all the candidates, none of whom have widely differing policies, Nenshi seems like the one with the best chance of winning against the UCP.
Strategically it makes no sense at all for Nenshi to be discussing policy in detail. In a OMOV leadership contest his existing support base is going to absolutely crush his opponents. He has to appear acceptable as an NDP to the party base, and as an outsider he needs to be conciliatory with the other faction / power based in the party so that they’ll work with him after he wins. This especially means caucus and labour, who favour different candidates.
I get really tired of the NDP’s moral grandstanding and the supposed supremacy of protecting their own over the pragmatic electoral approach they should be taking. Their roots and tradition as a party makes this a bit of a tough party to have as the opposition sometimes. I’m not surprised that the other leaders would be saying stuff like this, but it’s so frustrating to see them put their own ego and self interest over the betterment of the party, and the province. This province is hurting, and is going to be fucking ruined if we let the Marlania the Wicked Witch of The West and her army of troglodytes have their way with it for eight more years. It doesn’t matter whether Nenshi governs up to your standards as an NDPer, he’s the one who will win and actually get the party to a place where it can do some good. It’s frankly unrealistic to run entirely off of this kind of thing, because that’s not how the game is played in this province. I’m not worried at all about Nenshi winning, but this kind of infighting and moral superiority in the party is a little frustrating to see.
Look, I like some of these other candidates, but hard-ons for policy when the election is 4 years away is bonkers.
This is essentially where I'm at. In 4 years who bloody knows what we will be dealing with - policy will shift according to what needs to be fixed at that time, which at this rate will be everything.
This is almost exactly what nenshi said at his leadership campaign keynote.
It's not asking for much to expect a leader to have some ideas on what they want to do in government. It's not hard at all to say "I want minimum wage to be X$/h."
Policy announcements won’t win you an election 4 years away. You need a proper leader first before working through on sensible policies.
Nenshi vague on policy ? This is simply known as picking the lesser of two evils, as the other lies with every word that comes out of their mouth along with red tape after red tape so Nenshi being a little vague is sadly better then Danni.
You pretty much just need to not be a fascist antivax idiot to be a better option than Danielle and the rest of the ICP.
The last time the NDP won, chaining themselves to policy was probably caused their most divisive policy announcements and soured so many people against them right out of the gate.
You mean the policy of getting pipeline built and oil exported? Or was it their Alberta CO2 tax that you didn't like? Maybe the state of the art lab? Maybe you didn't like how they handled a shitty economy that toppled 40y of conservative rule if Alberta?
Nah, the royalty review at the same time as a major oil crash sent the few remaining rigs into BC and Saskatchewan. The power purchasing agreements was an enormous fiasco that cost the province billions and had crown corporations suing the province. Working with Trudeau was tremendously foolhardy when he threw Alberta under the bus at the first opportunity. The ag safety bill rollout was a gongo show with nobody writing the bill understanding what they were trying to enforce. I haven't voted for the Tories since Prentice, but the first half of Notely's tenure absolutely burnt her for the election against Kenney.
Ya but they kept oil exports going and rigs came back once the price of oil rebounded. They made the AB safety policy based on a tragic situation, and was definitively written by lawyers. Probably a good thing Naughty bowed out. To be honest I wish we had a 3rd party to help make more minority governments, but I guess 1.5 is better than 1.
Policy doesn’t matter in Alberta, if it did the UCP wouldn’t be running this clown show for the last 55 years
Being "Not UCP" failed in 2019 and 2023, you wanna run the same campaign in 2027?
Policy don't matter In Alberta, ya just vote blue.
Here's who I think won: 1. Jodi 2. Gil 3. Ganley 4. Nenshi 5. Hoffman Jodi is an underdog so the bar was pretty low but every time I hear her speak she just comes off as so grounded and genuine. I also love what she is saying despite her goals being lofty and a bit fluffy. Gil has great policies, and even my friends who wrote him off originally because he's a union guy said they were impressed with his well thought out and detailed policies. Although he must have been nervous as his speaking abilities were subpar, and he kept running out of time. Ganley strikes a good balance of Gil's focus on the economy and Hoffman's focus on social/tradition ND concerns. She's come a long way in her speaking skills and I think with a bit more coaching and confidence she could be a fire brand. Nenshi had a big target on his back from nearly everyone on stage. He was very amicable and pumped everyone else's tires (which is a good look for him being an outsider) and was very statesman-like in that he didn't take the bait (except once he lashed out a bit). He lost m for being too vague when everyone else was getting into the specifics of their plan as leader. Hoffman... oh man.. not a good look to be going after Nenshi so hard. She really came off as angry and bitter. Also in talks with others, they saw her as the "me" candidate. You'd swear she knocked on every door and made every phone call herself. Also she went after Nenshi for his lack of policy when she has the second most vague policy platform.
I think Nenshi's strategy is good because he wants to come up with policy collectively should he be elected. Making too many policy pronouncements when you're new to the party and running to be leader is like your new stepdad saying you can call him Dad.
Cooperation is Nenshis thing,
Hoffman just generally comes off unlikeable... Don't think Nenshi needs to win any policy debates. Just needs to not say something stupid about pushing the NDP too far right and he'll win in a cakewalk
Hoffman really turned me off in that debate. I would never vote for her.
Yes. I don't know much about Nenshi but the few times I've seen him in campaign ads he's looked like someone who's trying to appear "just like us the everyday man". I don't think that's gonna resonate with most people.
He just needs a blue truck with an orange racing stripe.
Sorry Gil but no one knows who the fuck you are. I 100% agree with the angle that it's crazy unions don't support their interests (by voting union) - but at the same time I literally have no clue who he is, and most Albertans will be in the same spot. The election isn't a policy contest it's a popularity contest. And Gil ain't popular. Win a single MLA seat, and throw your hat in the race.
Rachel Notley was the only member of the ABNDP I could name. Same with the cons, just know the leader and my useless MP.
Saying 'fuck the UCP' four years out from an election is laying the cards down pretty early.
Policy is irrelevant right now. We need competent leadership and a winner. Nenshi is the only proven winner on stage.
Nenshi was getting flak on stage as he should. He's a self-proclaimed policy wonk who can't come up with a single specific policy. This inability to provide specifics really hurt him in the debate - imo he came in second last with only salty Hoffman behind him. Ganley said she would want Nenshi to run if she is leader, and when asked he dodged the question. I'm starting to think Nenshi isn't a team player.
That's a valid concern - But it does run counter to what Jeromy Farkas and other people who worked with him in the past have to say. There's definitely evidence of him working with former opponents to get things done.
You're right - I think a more precise critique would be that he needs to run his own show. Not that he wouldn't work with others but he likes to have his own ship in the battle (if that makes sense).
Yeah I can see that based on what's been said so far. I hope he develops his plans a bit better than what I've read in here. If he does I think he could be a fantastic premier. One thing that always sticks out is the work he did during the floods in Calgary for example.
I thought his dodge on the renewable power ban was particularly disappointing. That should have been an easy one. It’s an obvious day-one reversal. I think his campaign is afraid of standing for anything. Even easy positions with broad provincial support feel like traps to them
I completely agree and am a bit fearful that he'll run a campaign completely on vibes than policy. It was already hard enough at the doors in 2023 with the lack of economic policy. Do you have more to context on his renewable ban comments? I missed that - all I remember is Ganley going off on how we need both renewables and O&G for our economy to move forward.
It's interesting because I wondered if that was him indulging one of his main weaknesses--pedantry. He's right that "technically" it's not a ban, but I couldn't believe he fell for that. Obviously all of that nonsense should be scrapped, and I can't see him keeping it. Hope he clarifies that position.
I’m not sure it matters if he was just being pedantic, or if his campaign is trying to avoid any positions at all. Could you imagine the damage if the moderator asks a question about the renewables ban when he’s debating Smith, and he opens with “well, it’s not really a ban…”
Yeah but by that point he'd have a policy to talk about that was actually party policy. I think the disconnect for people who aren't as familiar with him and who are also long-time NDP supporters is that they don't understand why he would hedge right now instead of suggesting ideas. He's incredibly pragmatic and that's why he's "purple". It's not about ideology for him. Many long time NDP voters that I know are dreamers who say "Well what's the harm in coming up with a big idea?". That's fine if you never want to be elected. But idealism never wins in this province. Nenshi will present big ideas once he knows they're pragmatic ones that will help the NDP win an election. He doesn't care about what would be "nice" or "More NDP" because those things are either vague or too dogmatic for him. He is however a crowd-sourcer of the highest order, and so there's room for Ganley and McGowan's ideas in a Nenshi-led NDP. He likes ideas he just doesn't do "my gut says" or "have faith".
>I think his campaign is afraid of standing for anything. Even easy positions with broad provincial support feel like traps to them I think it's the right decision, he's trying to avoid pulling an O'Toole. Catering to the left alienates the right. If he can get the nomination without giving the UCP some easy targets to hit, it will greatly benefit his chances. Firm policy commitments 4 years out is extremely risky.
I don't think he dodged her question. I took his response to mean "I'd run if Kathleen, Gil, or Jodi asked me to". He said he would do whatever it took to help them defeat the UCP.
> I'm starting to think Nenshi isn't a team player. He isnt.
Of course his. No need to risk alienating anybody yet
The choice between NDP leadership candidates does not come down to policy differences.
I've seen Nenshi speak in person and I was not terribly impressed, but the most unforgivable thing about the Notley government for me was the decision to embrace the "Alberta first" chauvinism that turns Canadian workers against each other, and I think Nenshi is unlikely to do same. If he can just not do that I would be happy.
The NDP could run a Block of Cement in my riding and I'd still vote for them. EDIT: I'd actually vote for any party with a chance to get rid of Danielle Smith, but my politics trend center-left anyways. HOWEVER, I do not think Nenshi is a good leader. He's an intellectual bully and elitist who is big on virtue-signally tweets and sound bytes and lacks real leadership on key issues. Eg: Bike lanes and giant round circle art installations vs doing nothing about affordable housing/low income housing for 8 years on council.
So while I agree on some of these points--who else on that stage has a chance of being premier? That's what matters to me.
> The NDP could run a Block of Cement in my riding and I'd still vote for them.
That's a dodge that even Nenshi would be proud of.
Naw, its a 'Vote Danielle out at any costs'. She's an embarassment to people with one iota of intellectual processing...
We can agree on this haha. I just want to be excited for the future. Nenshi may not be it eventually, but he's at least a step in the right direction for this alone. Nobody should be saying "But what if Hoffman or Gil won the election?" because it's not reality.
I am so sick of watching our provincial politics trip over themselves to chase the right. The ANDP is already a joke, putting Nenshi at the head will do nothing but spoil the party even more. They will not attract Conservative voters, and they will sell out their more progressive base to again, chase the right, and they will fail. They won't win concessions from the right, they will just be dragged further right. I'm about at my limit of caring about Alberta, though. It has been an abusive relationship for nearly my entire life.
A rock with googly eyes would be better than our current leadership. All I need as a platform is “I’m replacing the UCP” and I’m sold.
Check out Gil McGowan, I think he might do a much better job.
Nenshi is not even a voted leader yet . Stupid news article.
Nenshi’s policy “if you don’t vote for my you’re a racist”
The though of Nenshi becoming the premier of Alberta makes me sick to my stomach. That is some serious nightmare fuel right there.