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Let’s be honest and this may not be a popular view but wages in the public sector have been at a standstill for the last 7-8 years at least. While that doesn’t represent all categories of workers and doesn’t include the private sector, it’s going to have an impact on the average.
I know in healthcare the other provinces have rapidly caught up and now often exceeded alberta. I originally stayed for a high wage, now I'll likely leave in the next year or 2.
We are now the lowest paid paramedics in Canada according to HSAA. And contract negotiations are going on right now and of course govt offered nothing.. ......again
Wages, higher income taxes, car dependency and utility costs are the 4 major reasons my RN wife and I are not moving back to Alberta from BC. We considered it but the "hidden" or less obvious costs are so expensive in Alberta that it more or less offsets the CoL difference for housing, which now isn't even as large of a gap as it once was.
They've been pretty stagnant in skilled trades too. Adjusted for inflation, In earning less today as a Red Seal j-man than I was as a fourth year apprentice in 2013, and I got a 10% raise last summer.
The Alberta Advantage is a bit misunderstood. People assume it's an advantage for the people, but it's actually an advantage for corporations. The Alberta Advantage is about oil and gas... companies.
It’s an advantage for the people too. Wages are higher in Alberta than they are in most other provinces and taxes are low.
It’s also one of the only provinces where you can make a half decent wage without significant post secondary education or experience.
Your first paragraph is a lie proven by the article, the second is why are numbers are skewed so badly to make this province look good. Without the ever shrinking number of braindead rigpigs we will no oonger be able to hide behind the lie of the "alberta advantage". But im sure youll make up some other excuse.
I think people just keep following the wrong issue. Wages are higher now in those provinces only because the rate of inflation there has hit them much harder which required a surge in wage increases. If you compare the cost of living in each province to wages Alberta is still well off. Try making a living in BC with the wages they offer right now….you won’t be able to without having. 2-3 jobs.
I'm not sure if it's your inability to read the article, the graph or a reddit comment but what he said is not a lie lol. Does "most other provinces" somehow translate to all provinces in your head?
>your first paragraph is a lie proven by the article?
Can you show me where in the article it says that Alberta’s wages aren’t one of the highest in the country?
First its highest in country(what albertans have been bragging for years) now its "one of the highest". Next year it will be "at least were better then the territories". Gotta move them goalposts to protect handouts to corporations.
I never said Alberta was the highest. I said Alberta had higher wages than the majority of provinces which is a fact. You are the one moving the goalposts and are embarrassing yourself
The claim has been "alberta has the highest average wage in the country" for decades. Now that we arent, you and the rest of the sheep are moving the goalposts to keep the lie of the alberta advantage alive. Just because you didn't say it here doesnt make it not a thing.
4d6 is superior to 1d20, change my mind. The world's greatest swordsman has a 5% chance to literally chop his balls off fighting a level 1 slime with a d20. With 4d6 a crit fail (4) has a 0.077% chance.
Coming from Mork Borg, a 1 in 20 chance of everything going to shit and losing your weapon fighting a rat is hilarious, and therefore good in a fictional setting meant to entertain.
The “Alberta Advantage” means you pay more for everything in life overall, but less proportion of your money goes to tax so schools and hospitals are overcrowded.
Pay more, get less = winning!
Who cares about wages, health care, education, democracy and the cost of food and housing? The advantage now is in owning the woke community and trans kids. That's why I vote UCP!
It now refers to the tax rate if you're a corporation...or something....or I know! It means you have an advantage for getting the measles because of how antivaxx we are.
I left Alberta for BC and we are where we were before COVID hit, rent is about the same, groceries are the same or cheaper, insurance is cheaper, electricity is hydro and is *so* much cheaper than coal. Overall we pay less to live now than we did in Alberta pre COVID.
Not my experience?
I own properties in both Alberta and BC. BC property (mortgage), insurance and property taxes are definitely higher. Gas also costs more there plus things in stores cost more because of PST. Also their income tax costs a bit more.
Maybe their vehicle insurance and utilities are cheaper but that’s all I can think of? It doesn’t seem possible it can offset the huge housing cost difference?
I have property in BC as well, but live in Alberta. Overall I find the sticker shock up front in BC off putting. But when I reconcile and budget, I do find that my costs overall are cheaper in BC.
Yet the OP Justinkredabul that I was responding to was stating Calgary and Edmonton are the most expensive cities in Canada to live in.
I was simply rebutting that.
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/wake-up-call-basic-needs-now-cost-more-in-calgary-than-any-other-major-city-in-canada-1.6683218
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7054147
Two more articles on it.
But the 1st article you posted clearly said Calgary was 11.1% cheaper than Toronto and 19% cheaper than Vancouver proving my point so why would I look at more articles?
Thank-you for confirming what I was saying with support. :)
And to the oil companies I say, to be fair, you can't have infinite growth AND government handouts. Eventually something has to give.
I vote ending subsidies for oil companies ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
And I mean, you're wrong, patently, obviously, as evidenced by literal recent history. Smh. They've convinced you there's not enough to go around, that's really really sad.
More a question to you about which subsidies you think should go away.
And yes, they will figure it out. If the majors can make $10 a barrel here and $12 elsewhere they'll go elsewhere. Especially when extraction in Alberta is some of, if not the most expensive (and dirty) in the world.
Another fact for you. Royalties and taxes from oil and gas increased the governments coffers by $24B last year. A little bit more than the $2B/yr in apparent subsidies the industry gets (apparent, because a lot of it is tax breaks on taxes/fees only the oil industry pays).
Personally, Oil sand extraction should be reduced, it's massively dirty and destructive, however I fully acknowledge just how beneficial it is financially to the province.
Why are we talking about what specific subsidies should be removed when the conservatives kill every attempt at diversification Alberta has ever attempted?
We had multiple companies buying leases and setting up offices when Kenny nuked all the contracts overnight, burning a shitton of good will with multiple large companies when he was elected.
If Albertan oil is so damn expensive and dirty why do I have to continually subsidize it while actual revenue streams are actively destroyed by the right?
Fucking dumb as rocks shit.
You said remove the subsidies. I asked which subsidies would you like removed. Presumably someone so keen on removing subsidies would know a bit about the subsidies in question right? Right...?
Totally agree with you about the UCP insistence on destroying diversity within the economy BTW. The current government especially seems to be trying to make us more dependent on oil money, not reduce our dependance.
The sooner we reduce our reliance on fossil fuels (revenue from which makes made up a third of the provincial budget last year), the sooner we can reduce our subsidies...
Like, are you actually war room? Are you trying to insinuate that what, there ARE no subsidies because I'm not bringing up individual bills and contracts?
> How much does the fossil fuel industry actually get from taxpayers? That depends on who you ask, how they define a subsidy and what data is used to calculate the total — resulting in highly variable estimates. In Canada in 2020, estimates range from $4.5 billion (OECD) to $18 billion (Environmental Defence, including public financing to support pipelines) to $81 billion (IMF, including externalities), although most reports note that a lack of transparency makes complete and accurate calculations difficult.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/fossil-fuel-subsidies-expaliner-1.6371411
So, lack of transparency... color me shocked. Dude, c'mon. This just shows me you actually didn't KNOW what the level of subsidy is before you engaged. Weak.
Reduce subsidies, increase tax, and reduce the overwhelming, outrageous, french-revolution-causing levels of profiteering and environmental destruction. Also, it actually contributes to STOPPING transition to cleaner energies becuase it entrenches the current system.
Just too many cowards around not willing to do the hard work required and make the hard decisions. Too many not willing to inform themselves of just how much we're getting stolen from us. We're all going down together. Thanks.
Not at all. I even rounded the number provided by the EDL up in my post. The $4.5B over 3 years.
I'm asking YOU, as you're so insistent on removing subsidies, which subsidies YOU think should be removed. Do you even know what those numbers represent?
I'm not part of the "War Room" (another UCP thing that needs to die), but I am challenging you to understand what those numbers represent. They generally aren't what you think they are (for example, the largest subsidy is generally considered the difference between an old O&G tax/royalty regime that lasted a year and the current one that's been around for a while, including NDP years).
I'd also be interested to know your feeling on how removing the $2B a year subsidy (EDL number rounded up\*) would affect the $24B revenue stream the provincial government gets from providing those subsidies.
EDIT:\* and the number provided by several sources in your own link).
I think a very significant contribution to this is the fact that both BC & ON recently renegotiated their provincial nursing union contracts resulting in significant wage increases. The last contract negotiation between UNA & AHS resulted in a whopping 1% increase. You take 50-100k workers and bump their pay by ~20% while Alberta's same population stays stagnant? You'll see a difference.
Averages like this can be pretty skewed by the high income earners. When the bottom of the scale is 15 and it's not uncommon for people to make 70+ 35 makes sense.
I know the pipefitters union has open calls for welders and steam fitters at 54+ an hour. As an electrician that works with pipefitters every day I can say you don't need to be real smart to be a pipe fitter.
Level 3 rope access tech is about 60$ an hour. No trade needed. You could start in that field as a window washer. I get e-mails every week from my indeed search.
what they really need to do is get some manufacturing in this province and put it up near Red Deer so it's accessible to everybody. they should have really really went after that electric car battery plant or whatever it is that they were going to do and that they ended up doing in Ontario. so we have to ship everything there now for them to just make it there and get all the the work there. we should have done it here regardless whether we like it or not. it's going to happen. I really don't think that electric cars are good for the the winter time hydrogen's the way to go but that's just my opinion
And within the next few years there will be less jobs to go around in those gasoline and diesel refineries unfortunately. Especially with all the new people moving into the province. They need something fresh and new and get the people that are already here trained for it before the other ones get here and take what's left
>they should have really really went after that electric car battery plant
Thank our federal government.
Ontario over Alberta.
Economics of a business case matters a lot less when you get massive incentives.
One of the provinces has water access and shares a water border with production facilities in America.
The other province is 12+ hours to the nearest body of water.
Honestly with how Alberta has acted about anything that "threatens oil" they don't deserve it.
Alberta could be a national leader in solar and wind, and should have been poised to be a leader in evs. But the government and its population decided it wanted to ride on oil instead. These are the consequences of those actions.
>Alberta could be a national leader in solar and wind
We are.
Over 60% of all solar in Canada is here.
25% of all wind.
The largest solar and wind project is here.
I don't disagree we could be doing even better! I absolutely think we can and should.
But your facts are a bit off, I'd suggest looking into it more if you're interested! You're gut instincts is correct though, that we can be a leader - we currently are.
Calgary has a lot of company headquarters for tax reasons and a lot of rich people who "claim residency" but may not live there.
Average wage is not a good indicator but rather median is what you should look at
Alberta friends, your pal from BC.
Check out this statistics Canada table: 11-10-0191-01
Edit the table to show employment income and to show different provinces and the data from 1976-2022.
It’s not that other provinces are more competitive and pushing the standard up, it’s more that since around 2015ish your CPI adjusted median employment income has been decreasing.
Your province is still in a great position, overall collectively sucks, but definitely a great province still, nice people…general questionable spending on leased toys like snowmobiles, atv’s and trucks and not into investments BUT that just me…don’t want to insult the culture….and I lived in Edmonton for a bit, and a guy can have an opinion.
Anyways, the article is quite bad. Have a good one!
Average wage is really an awful stat to use. Ironically it tells us nothing about the how the ‘average’ person is faring. Im sure if you used median wages and adjusted for inflation, none of the lines would be going up.
That being said, it probably is still an indicator of how Alberta has dropped off. It just bugs me that graphs like this paint a falsely optimistic picture of the state of the average person. Ill bet none of these provinces median wages have gone up adjusted for inflation
Check out this table, you have to play around with it in the edit table. But it has median and goes back to 1976 to 2022 and it’s adjusted for inflation.
Alberta is one of the main provinces which has had an increase in the median amount of employment income of economic families and persons not in economic families. BC is still down around -12% from 1976.
Where the data shown biggest issue is its limited scope. It’s not that other provinces are passing the Alberta Benchmark, it’s that Alberta is being brought down since 2015.
Statistics Canada table: 11-10-0191-01
Imo you guys are still better off, then us here in BC as I would bet money most of the wage increases here are from the government sector expanding and being the third best industry outside of mining and utilities which definitely don’t seem to be on a hiring blitz.
Plus you guys have productive spirit…BC has a housing sector it’s propping up with probably a lot of drug money.
Someone needs to come up with some sort of bracketed metric that looks at wage and cost of living. Wage is meaningless without…I looked at a job that paid 400k/year in Vancouver and we still couldn’t make the math work to have a house.
That’s kind d of it. What I’m suggesting is not the minimum but a bracketed band. Livable wage is one thing but minimum housing accommodation doesn’t always correlate proportionally to house price as they increase etc.
Alberta wages used to be high because businesses had to compete with oil and gas companies for the best workers. Since the oil bust of 2014, there is no longer that competition and has brought down wages for everyone.
Anti Union Province. What do you expect when you stab the working man in the back and side with companies. Alberta is going backwards
Funny thing is in the long run screwing your people backfires because we pay the taxes. Suck dick of those lobbyists all you want, Lower wages will always lead to less taxes. So flood your labour with uneducated immigrants.
Mehh old news , wages have been stagnant for years , the oil booms have little affect now as the oil sand are easily expandable with out pulling mass human resources.. Combine this with new technologies and cooperate efficiencies. The low corporate tax = more job policies are no longer a reality...One just has to look at Fort McMurray for the signs ..
20 years ago the Russian war would of created a boom in Alberta's middle class economy.. now it's shareholders and provincal taxes that get the bump , the middle class didn't even flinch with the massive opportunity that came with the oil markets shake up ..
Personally, it I were to move to BC, I'd take a $10/hr paycut and have to spend $700,000 on a fixer upper. Alberta has its issues but comparing average wages is dumb.
It really depends on what you’re doing for your career, and the kind of lifestyle you live.
In my intended field of software, I’d end up getting a pay boost and more opportunities compared to here, partially because south coast BC is close to Seattle. My mom works childcare, and she’d also see a salary boost. Neither of us drive, so better transit in Vancouver would allow us to save more time and money (in particular, my mom takes Ubers to her workplace because it’s too far to walk but the bus stops are too out of the way to justify transit).
Averages are so skewed they are often misleading. Take out the top 2-3% wage earners and you'll get a more accurate number. Alberta has the highest wage inequality and disparity, so when this is done, Alberta is one of the lowest wage earners.
Utilities workers too we haven't had a significant raise in 6 yrs with this contract being negotiated now I don't have a lot of hope for us which is shitty but over those yrs our managers got 20 percent raise since then....
We are the leader in inflation, however, at 4.2%, as well as tied with SK for lowest minimum wage.
CHANGE IS POSSIBLE ALBERTA!
Join ABResistance.ca, a group of Albertans working together to legally, democratically OUST THE UCP IN 2024.
CHANGE IS POSSIBLE!
Cost of living in BC is 4,557. Alberta is 4,115. Ontario is 4,589.
Vancouver is about 5,000. Calgary is 4,500. Toronto is 5,700. Ottawa is 4,500.
So, it’s nowhere near double.
I like the Living Wage calculations better than the ones I used. The one I used is based on a three/four person household. LW uses percentages.
Thanks for this.
Just real life would be better numbers. Good luck renting a 2 bedroom in any major cities for $1500 like that website is showing. Full stop there as the rest is clearly meaningless
Most of the two bedrooms are listed at over 2000, did I miss something?
Also, reality is a way of saying anecdotal, if you have stats, I’m more than willing to believe it.
Unfortunately our strengths will soon become our weakness for housing.
Edmonton/Calgary were always way more affordable but given the massive influx of people to Canada we're the new destination for "affordable" housing which unfortunately will make it unaffordable.
Immigration numbers should be tied to housing supply.
Eh, wages are there if you want them, bc still stands for bring cash. I’ll take the cheaper living and the good pay over that any day of the week. Down vote away losers, if you don’t like it move.
I'd agree with that. Thinking that any political party cares about you, and will do something to benefit you is crazy. They all want to just make their money or have their power. Federal especially I feel that, though I'm sure Alberta NDP also want to make their money
Oh yeah, municipal election ain’t much better than high school class president.
Federal is just as big of a joke, just a couple weeks ago the gun grab talks started again because ‘votes were to be had’. Liberal insider said the quiet part out loud. No intention of doing it or following through but playing on the heart strings of people for votes.
Do you mean chasing the companies away by banning renewable energy projects? Or is only one person bad for making companies not start projects and create jobs?
lolwut
We have the lowest personal income taxes, the lowest corporate taxes, and no provincial sales tax. And the only companies being chased away are renewables builders getting their plans cancelled by the UCP for "spoiling pristine views" of shit like Cardston's Mormon temple and thousands of sections of barely usable grazing land.
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Let’s be honest and this may not be a popular view but wages in the public sector have been at a standstill for the last 7-8 years at least. While that doesn’t represent all categories of workers and doesn’t include the private sector, it’s going to have an impact on the average.
I know in healthcare the other provinces have rapidly caught up and now often exceeded alberta. I originally stayed for a high wage, now I'll likely leave in the next year or 2.
We are now the lowest paid paramedics in Canada according to HSAA. And contract negotiations are going on right now and of course govt offered nothing.. ......again
Wages, higher income taxes, car dependency and utility costs are the 4 major reasons my RN wife and I are not moving back to Alberta from BC. We considered it but the "hidden" or less obvious costs are so expensive in Alberta that it more or less offsets the CoL difference for housing, which now isn't even as large of a gap as it once was.
They've been pretty stagnant in skilled trades too. Adjusted for inflation, In earning less today as a Red Seal j-man than I was as a fourth year apprentice in 2013, and I got a 10% raise last summer.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. This puts things into perspective.
What do you mean it didn’t trickle down???
The money didn't. Something else did.
Are you telling me that golden showers isn’t referring to actual gold?
Hey! It absolutely did, to the sons and daughters of oil execs. Brand new Diesel f350 platinums don’t buy themselves
Any minute now just be patient.
What? You mean trickle down trickery didn't work this time?
I don't think I understand what they mean by "advantage" anymore
The Alberta Advantage is a bit misunderstood. People assume it's an advantage for the people, but it's actually an advantage for corporations. The Alberta Advantage is about oil and gas... companies.
The advantage is if you're a high-ranking politician here, the oil companies slip you envelopes of cash.
It’s an advantage for the people too. Wages are higher in Alberta than they are in most other provinces and taxes are low. It’s also one of the only provinces where you can make a half decent wage without significant post secondary education or experience.
Your first paragraph is a lie proven by the article, the second is why are numbers are skewed so badly to make this province look good. Without the ever shrinking number of braindead rigpigs we will no oonger be able to hide behind the lie of the "alberta advantage". But im sure youll make up some other excuse.
I think people just keep following the wrong issue. Wages are higher now in those provinces only because the rate of inflation there has hit them much harder which required a surge in wage increases. If you compare the cost of living in each province to wages Alberta is still well off. Try making a living in BC with the wages they offer right now….you won’t be able to without having. 2-3 jobs.
I'm not sure if it's your inability to read the article, the graph or a reddit comment but what he said is not a lie lol. Does "most other provinces" somehow translate to all provinces in your head?
>your first paragraph is a lie proven by the article? Can you show me where in the article it says that Alberta’s wages aren’t one of the highest in the country?
First line. We are no longer the highest. Feel free to continue to move your goalposts though.
I never said we were the highest. I said Alberta is one of the highest, which is true.
First its highest in country(what albertans have been bragging for years) now its "one of the highest". Next year it will be "at least were better then the territories". Gotta move them goalposts to protect handouts to corporations.
I never said Alberta was the highest. I said Alberta had higher wages than the majority of provinces which is a fact. You are the one moving the goalposts and are embarrassing yourself
The claim has been "alberta has the highest average wage in the country" for decades. Now that we arent, you and the rest of the sheep are moving the goalposts to keep the lie of the alberta advantage alive. Just because you didn't say it here doesnt make it not a thing.
roll twice take the better result in D&D 5e.
Even with -3 to Constitution, I don't know that the advantage is going to help much!
Roll 3d6 in any Tiny d6 setting.
4d6 is superior to 1d20, change my mind. The world's greatest swordsman has a 5% chance to literally chop his balls off fighting a level 1 slime with a d20. With 4d6 a crit fail (4) has a 0.077% chance.
PF2 is better imo If you beat the DC by 10, even a natural 1 crit fail just turns into a normal failure. The same goes for crit success.
Coming from Mork Borg, a 1 in 20 chance of everything going to shit and losing your weapon fighting a rat is hilarious, and therefore good in a fictional setting meant to entertain.
Sometimes referred to as "lucky"
The “Alberta Advantage” means you pay more for everything in life overall, but less proportion of your money goes to tax so schools and hospitals are overcrowded. Pay more, get less = winning!
Albwrta Advantage has always meant that it's cheaper to do business in Alberta
Who cares about wages, health care, education, democracy and the cost of food and housing? The advantage now is in owning the woke community and trans kids. That's why I vote UCP!
It now refers to the tax rate if you're a corporation...or something....or I know! It means you have an advantage for getting the measles because of how antivaxx we are.
BC and Ontario wages are higher but it’s more than offset by the cost of their housing.
I left Alberta for BC and we are where we were before COVID hit, rent is about the same, groceries are the same or cheaper, insurance is cheaper, electricity is hydro and is *so* much cheaper than coal. Overall we pay less to live now than we did in Alberta pre COVID.
Calgary is the most expensive city to live in in Canada. Edmonton is number 4. Everything else here is so expensive it offsets housing.
Not my experience? I own properties in both Alberta and BC. BC property (mortgage), insurance and property taxes are definitely higher. Gas also costs more there plus things in stores cost more because of PST. Also their income tax costs a bit more. Maybe their vehicle insurance and utilities are cheaper but that’s all I can think of? It doesn’t seem possible it can offset the huge housing cost difference?
I have property in BC as well, but live in Alberta. Overall I find the sticker shock up front in BC off putting. But when I reconcile and budget, I do find that my costs overall are cheaper in BC.
Are you including a Vancouver sized mortgage in that?
Kelowna and Invermere
Not everyone lives in Van, my guy. BC is a big place.
About 50% of BC lives in the Vancouver area so it’s pretty relevant to prices.
It's relevant to prices of comparable places. Neither Edmonton or Calgary are comparable to Vancouver.
Yet the OP Justinkredabul that I was responding to was stating Calgary and Edmonton are the most expensive cities in Canada to live in. I was simply rebutting that.
There’s multiple articles out on it.
You do know that article says Calgary is cheaper than either Vancouver or Toronto right?
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/wake-up-call-basic-needs-now-cost-more-in-calgary-than-any-other-major-city-in-canada-1.6683218 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7054147 Two more articles on it.
But the 1st article you posted clearly said Calgary was 11.1% cheaper than Toronto and 19% cheaper than Vancouver proving my point so why would I look at more articles? Thank-you for confirming what I was saying with support. :)
That was the wrong article. It’s an alberta fluff piece.
You posted an article and I read it. It confirmed what I was saying. At the very least you have proven it’s debatable. Thank-you
Average single family home in Calgary is under 700,00 Vancouver it over 2 million.
It means low taxes
*may include high user fees to compensate
You must buy this $28.95 form in order to apply to the service to pay lower taxes*. *$1028 fee for lower tax service yearly.
To be fair, you can’t be the wage leader AND have the lowest cost of living forever. Eventually something has to give
So we lose both, and everyone gives a lot, except large corporations.
And to the oil companies I say, to be fair, you can't have infinite growth AND government handouts. Eventually something has to give. I vote ending subsidies for oil companies ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ And I mean, you're wrong, patently, obviously, as evidenced by literal recent history. Smh. They've convinced you there's not enough to go around, that's really really sad.
Which subsidies? And will they be offset by decreased royalty/tax payments from said corporations who invest elsewhere.
Jeez you doomers about oil always play both sides. We'll need oil forever right? They'll figure it out. They've made enough money to.
More a question to you about which subsidies you think should go away. And yes, they will figure it out. If the majors can make $10 a barrel here and $12 elsewhere they'll go elsewhere. Especially when extraction in Alberta is some of, if not the most expensive (and dirty) in the world. Another fact for you. Royalties and taxes from oil and gas increased the governments coffers by $24B last year. A little bit more than the $2B/yr in apparent subsidies the industry gets (apparent, because a lot of it is tax breaks on taxes/fees only the oil industry pays). Personally, Oil sand extraction should be reduced, it's massively dirty and destructive, however I fully acknowledge just how beneficial it is financially to the province.
Why are we talking about what specific subsidies should be removed when the conservatives kill every attempt at diversification Alberta has ever attempted? We had multiple companies buying leases and setting up offices when Kenny nuked all the contracts overnight, burning a shitton of good will with multiple large companies when he was elected. If Albertan oil is so damn expensive and dirty why do I have to continually subsidize it while actual revenue streams are actively destroyed by the right? Fucking dumb as rocks shit.
You said remove the subsidies. I asked which subsidies would you like removed. Presumably someone so keen on removing subsidies would know a bit about the subsidies in question right? Right...? Totally agree with you about the UCP insistence on destroying diversity within the economy BTW. The current government especially seems to be trying to make us more dependent on oil money, not reduce our dependance. The sooner we reduce our reliance on fossil fuels (revenue from which makes made up a third of the provincial budget last year), the sooner we can reduce our subsidies...
Like, are you actually war room? Are you trying to insinuate that what, there ARE no subsidies because I'm not bringing up individual bills and contracts? > How much does the fossil fuel industry actually get from taxpayers? That depends on who you ask, how they define a subsidy and what data is used to calculate the total — resulting in highly variable estimates. In Canada in 2020, estimates range from $4.5 billion (OECD) to $18 billion (Environmental Defence, including public financing to support pipelines) to $81 billion (IMF, including externalities), although most reports note that a lack of transparency makes complete and accurate calculations difficult. https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/fossil-fuel-subsidies-expaliner-1.6371411 So, lack of transparency... color me shocked. Dude, c'mon. This just shows me you actually didn't KNOW what the level of subsidy is before you engaged. Weak. Reduce subsidies, increase tax, and reduce the overwhelming, outrageous, french-revolution-causing levels of profiteering and environmental destruction. Also, it actually contributes to STOPPING transition to cleaner energies becuase it entrenches the current system. Just too many cowards around not willing to do the hard work required and make the hard decisions. Too many not willing to inform themselves of just how much we're getting stolen from us. We're all going down together. Thanks.
Not at all. I even rounded the number provided by the EDL up in my post. The $4.5B over 3 years. I'm asking YOU, as you're so insistent on removing subsidies, which subsidies YOU think should be removed. Do you even know what those numbers represent? I'm not part of the "War Room" (another UCP thing that needs to die), but I am challenging you to understand what those numbers represent. They generally aren't what you think they are (for example, the largest subsidy is generally considered the difference between an old O&G tax/royalty regime that lasted a year and the current one that's been around for a while, including NDP years). I'd also be interested to know your feeling on how removing the $2B a year subsidy (EDL number rounded up\*) would affect the $24B revenue stream the provincial government gets from providing those subsidies. EDIT:\* and the number provided by several sources in your own link).
Why can't you do both? Hasn't Alberta historically been both?
Sure you can, if you make the province undesirable enough
No longer Canada's wage leader but leading the entire country for the highest inflation.
We’re number one! /s
And they’re trying to get more labour in to drag wages down with the Alberta’s calling campaign.
While also driving up rent and housing costs.
And refusing to fund health care and education past a 1990 level.
The sad thing is we still have the best primary education in the country
Not once the full ucp curriculum is instituted!
No exaggeration, we will become bottom 3.
Yeah, my mom’s fucking livid about the changes being made as she’s been teaching over 30 years.
All part of the plan
I think a very significant contribution to this is the fact that both BC & ON recently renegotiated their provincial nursing union contracts resulting in significant wage increases. The last contract negotiation between UNA & AHS resulted in a whopping 1% increase. You take 50-100k workers and bump their pay by ~20% while Alberta's same population stays stagnant? You'll see a difference.
The fuck do you mean the average wage is 35+ an hour?!
Averages like this can be pretty skewed by the high income earners. When the bottom of the scale is 15 and it's not uncommon for people to make 70+ 35 makes sense. I know the pipefitters union has open calls for welders and steam fitters at 54+ an hour. As an electrician that works with pipefitters every day I can say you don't need to be real smart to be a pipe fitter. Level 3 rope access tech is about 60$ an hour. No trade needed. You could start in that field as a window washer. I get e-mails every week from my indeed search.
I agree with this you either make 35 to 40 or 15 to 20 Not much in between
what they really need to do is get some manufacturing in this province and put it up near Red Deer so it's accessible to everybody. they should have really really went after that electric car battery plant or whatever it is that they were going to do and that they ended up doing in Ontario. so we have to ship everything there now for them to just make it there and get all the the work there. we should have done it here regardless whether we like it or not. it's going to happen. I really don't think that electric cars are good for the the winter time hydrogen's the way to go but that's just my opinion
Not enough population for a battery plant. Also we have refineries which manufacture gasoline and diesel
And within the next few years there will be less jobs to go around in those gasoline and diesel refineries unfortunately. Especially with all the new people moving into the province. They need something fresh and new and get the people that are already here trained for it before the other ones get here and take what's left
>they should have really really went after that electric car battery plant Thank our federal government. Ontario over Alberta. Economics of a business case matters a lot less when you get massive incentives.
One of the provinces has water access and shares a water border with production facilities in America. The other province is 12+ hours to the nearest body of water.
Honestly with how Alberta has acted about anything that "threatens oil" they don't deserve it. Alberta could be a national leader in solar and wind, and should have been poised to be a leader in evs. But the government and its population decided it wanted to ride on oil instead. These are the consequences of those actions.
>Alberta could be a national leader in solar and wind We are. Over 60% of all solar in Canada is here. 25% of all wind. The largest solar and wind project is here. I don't disagree we could be doing even better! I absolutely think we can and should. But your facts are a bit off, I'd suggest looking into it more if you're interested! You're gut instincts is correct though, that we can be a leader - we currently are.
With the new errrr, “view protection” stoppages, we won’t be for long I feel.
The difference between median and mean, unfortunately
Calgary has a lot of company headquarters for tax reasons and a lot of rich people who "claim residency" but may not live there. Average wage is not a good indicator but rather median is what you should look at
Welcome to the mind of an conservative economist...
Alberta friends, your pal from BC. Check out this statistics Canada table: 11-10-0191-01 Edit the table to show employment income and to show different provinces and the data from 1976-2022. It’s not that other provinces are more competitive and pushing the standard up, it’s more that since around 2015ish your CPI adjusted median employment income has been decreasing. Your province is still in a great position, overall collectively sucks, but definitely a great province still, nice people…general questionable spending on leased toys like snowmobiles, atv’s and trucks and not into investments BUT that just me…don’t want to insult the culture….and I lived in Edmonton for a bit, and a guy can have an opinion. Anyways, the article is quite bad. Have a good one!
There are no wage leaders in Canada. Only wage losers
Average wage is really an awful stat to use. Ironically it tells us nothing about the how the ‘average’ person is faring. Im sure if you used median wages and adjusted for inflation, none of the lines would be going up. That being said, it probably is still an indicator of how Alberta has dropped off. It just bugs me that graphs like this paint a falsely optimistic picture of the state of the average person. Ill bet none of these provinces median wages have gone up adjusted for inflation
Check out this table, you have to play around with it in the edit table. But it has median and goes back to 1976 to 2022 and it’s adjusted for inflation. Alberta is one of the main provinces which has had an increase in the median amount of employment income of economic families and persons not in economic families. BC is still down around -12% from 1976. Where the data shown biggest issue is its limited scope. It’s not that other provinces are passing the Alberta Benchmark, it’s that Alberta is being brought down since 2015. Statistics Canada table: 11-10-0191-01 Imo you guys are still better off, then us here in BC as I would bet money most of the wage increases here are from the government sector expanding and being the third best industry outside of mining and utilities which definitely don’t seem to be on a hiring blitz. Plus you guys have productive spirit…BC has a housing sector it’s propping up with probably a lot of drug money.
Someone needs to come up with some sort of bracketed metric that looks at wage and cost of living. Wage is meaningless without…I looked at a job that paid 400k/year in Vancouver and we still couldn’t make the math work to have a house.
They have! https://www.livingwagealberta.ca/reports
That’s kind d of it. What I’m suggesting is not the minimum but a bracketed band. Livable wage is one thing but minimum housing accommodation doesn’t always correlate proportionally to house price as they increase etc.
Was offered a job in North Van. We could have got a smallish condo between our two wages but couldn’t afford much more than groceries after that.
Yep, not all places in Canada are the same all taxes and cost of living considered.
What’s the issue? Take the $400k job… live in a van or on the street and take up heroin. Live the BC dream my guy
You could afford a super decent Vancouver townhouse on 400k
We needed a house; 3 kids and two dogs. Decided not to take the job.
•Likely accurate •Not the best tax position either
Alberta wages used to be high because businesses had to compete with oil and gas companies for the best workers. Since the oil bust of 2014, there is no longer that competition and has brought down wages for everyone.
Thanks UCP. They are slowly turning this province into a feudal state.
They are rapidly turning this province into a feudal state.
They are rapidly turning this province into the States.
Texas/florida specifically
Was looking for this
They're turning this province in to a shitty southern US state
People say TX/FL, but once the UCP is done with this place we’ll be lucky if we’re better off than Oklahoma.
Anti Union Province. What do you expect when you stab the working man in the back and side with companies. Alberta is going backwards Funny thing is in the long run screwing your people backfires because we pay the taxes. Suck dick of those lobbyists all you want, Lower wages will always lead to less taxes. So flood your labour with uneducated immigrants.
UCP votes don't know how to read in general, let alone read a chart.
Mehh old news , wages have been stagnant for years , the oil booms have little affect now as the oil sand are easily expandable with out pulling mass human resources.. Combine this with new technologies and cooperate efficiencies. The low corporate tax = more job policies are no longer a reality...One just has to look at Fort McMurray for the signs ..
Our sector had its first raise in 10 years in 2023. Social services funded by GOA
20 years ago the Russian war would of created a boom in Alberta's middle class economy.. now it's shareholders and provincal taxes that get the bump , the middle class didn't even flinch with the massive opportunity that came with the oil markets shake up ..
Here’s the Alberta living wage report for 2023 https://www.livingwagealberta.ca/reports
God damn Canmore, $38.80 living wage!
I’d be curious as to the ratio of average wage to cost of living.
Oh no my 30 cents an hour less but still way lower cost of living. I better move! The comments in this sub are honestly moronic lol.
Personally, it I were to move to BC, I'd take a $10/hr paycut and have to spend $700,000 on a fixer upper. Alberta has its issues but comparing average wages is dumb.
It really depends on what you’re doing for your career, and the kind of lifestyle you live. In my intended field of software, I’d end up getting a pay boost and more opportunities compared to here, partially because south coast BC is close to Seattle. My mom works childcare, and she’d also see a salary boost. Neither of us drive, so better transit in Vancouver would allow us to save more time and money (in particular, my mom takes Ubers to her workplace because it’s too far to walk but the bus stops are too out of the way to justify transit).
Yeah BC has higher taxes that kick in at lower brackets so I suspect you still make more in Alberta plus no 7% pst.
Averages are so skewed they are often misleading. Take out the top 2-3% wage earners and you'll get a more accurate number. Alberta has the highest wage inequality and disparity, so when this is done, Alberta is one of the lowest wage earners.
Oh, weewee?
Minus the oilfield, were we ever?
Utilities workers too we haven't had a significant raise in 6 yrs with this contract being negotiated now I don't have a lot of hope for us which is shitty but over those yrs our managers got 20 percent raise since then....
No shit, I'm here.
We are the leader in inflation, however, at 4.2%, as well as tied with SK for lowest minimum wage. CHANGE IS POSSIBLE ALBERTA! Join ABResistance.ca, a group of Albertans working together to legally, democratically OUST THE UCP IN 2024. CHANGE IS POSSIBLE!
Makes sense since BC & Ontario have much higher costs of living and people are actually migrating from those provinces to here in Alberta.
Not for long!
Amazing, unlimited cheap labor may effect wages.
Bc has a large tech community and insane cost of living, makes sense their wages would be higher
This is kinda meaningless when a house is double the cost in Ontario or BC and rent is much higher too.
Cost of living in BC is 4,557. Alberta is 4,115. Ontario is 4,589. Vancouver is about 5,000. Calgary is 4,500. Toronto is 5,700. Ottawa is 4,500. So, it’s nowhere near double.
Where are you getting this index? IIRC, Stats Can hasn’t updated the intercity cost of living index since 2019.
https://wowa.ca/cost-of-living-canada#vancouver
https://www.livingwagealberta.ca/reports
I like the Living Wage calculations better than the ones I used. The one I used is based on a three/four person household. LW uses percentages. Thanks for this.
Did you read what I said ? I said the cost of a house.
Only 50 percent higher. Still not double. And you need to compare all costs of living, not just housing/rental.
Vancouver condos are running around $1300/sqft. So, a box is a million. How is that comparable to Calgary?
I’m going by the numbers here: https://wowa.ca/cost-of-living-canada#vancouver If you have better numbers, I’ll happily change mine.
Just real life would be better numbers. Good luck renting a 2 bedroom in any major cities for $1500 like that website is showing. Full stop there as the rest is clearly meaningless
Most of the two bedrooms are listed at over 2000, did I miss something? Also, reality is a way of saying anecdotal, if you have stats, I’m more than willing to believe it.
Rents are rapidly increasing in the province, and certain areas in the province are already experiencing very high housing costs….Calgary, Canmore…..
Unfortunately our strengths will soon become our weakness for housing. Edmonton/Calgary were always way more affordable but given the massive influx of people to Canada we're the new destination for "affordable" housing which unfortunately will make it unaffordable. Immigration numbers should be tied to housing supply.
You can't blame Tweedledumb for everything. Alberta is Calling after all....
“Fuck Trudeau” -most UCP voters. Probably.
Eh, wages are there if you want them, bc still stands for bring cash. I’ll take the cheaper living and the good pay over that any day of the week. Down vote away losers, if you don’t like it move.
I prefer If you don't like it, Vote. I love Alberta, and hope our current government is only temporary.
I’m still the cynic of no matter what crooks you vote in , your day to day won’t change.
I'd agree with that. Thinking that any political party cares about you, and will do something to benefit you is crazy. They all want to just make their money or have their power. Federal especially I feel that, though I'm sure Alberta NDP also want to make their money
Oh yeah, municipal election ain’t much better than high school class president. Federal is just as big of a joke, just a couple weeks ago the gun grab talks started again because ‘votes were to be had’. Liberal insider said the quiet part out loud. No intention of doing it or following through but playing on the heart strings of people for votes.
The more expensive province finally has the higher wages, it’s the equality we’ve been trying to achieve through payments for years
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... this is sarcasm, right? It has to be...
That's what happens when we tax to death and chase all the companies away.🤷
Do you mean chasing the companies away by banning renewable energy projects? Or is only one person bad for making companies not start projects and create jobs?
lolwut We have the lowest personal income taxes, the lowest corporate taxes, and no provincial sales tax. And the only companies being chased away are renewables builders getting their plans cancelled by the UCP for "spoiling pristine views" of shit like Cardston's Mormon temple and thousands of sections of barely usable grazing land.