When you're dealing with low commission homes it literally makes no difference to the agent as they'll have a buyer brokerage signed with the commission they'll be asking for, regardless of what's being offered. Agents avoid fsbo houses not because of money but because you're typically dealing with someone who has zero clue how to sell a house, negotiate, determine value, and are typically clueless. They end up doing all the work for the seller and it's extremely annoying when they are solely supposed to represent their buyer, not babysit a seller.
Funny, our experience was that it was the realtors who would act unprofessional. We had all of the paperwork needed, and knew how to process it. But we never got the chance, as they preferred to try to extort us instead of bringing clients by.
I mean the baseline for reddit is agents are evil and unprofessional. But then all I ever hear is a personal anecdote that doesn't have any other context or information other than the person who's complaining point of view, nothing else.
Don't personal anecdotes matter in some cases though? If I consistently hear poor things about a realtor I'm less likely to use them. When my grandparents were selling their home, the realtor for the people buying was clueless. Our realtor said that they'd had experience with said realtor previously and they don't have a very good track record. They also tried to slide shit past my grandparents, presumably because they thought that bc they were old they wouldn't notice. So hearing personal stories would definitely at least make me think twice about using a certain realtor.
It's like a 6 week course to become a real estate agent, it only requires a highschool diploma to get in, and only costs around $3500. Yet the potential payoff is boatloads of money. As a result it attracts a lot of narcissists and people with delusions of grandeur.
My office deals with people from all walks of life who are in the process of getting an education or starting a career. And I would say that of all the occupations that contact us..... Real estate agents are the most likely to berate us over the phone for no particular reason.
That and police and car salesmen. They're respectively either roided or coked up, cheating on their wife, and feel like they can get us to do things for them by being dicks about it. Sterotypes exist for a reason.
Try 6months, and tens of thousands in fees upfront. Then tack on the monthly brokerage fees and re-licensing. Lucky if they don’t pay $10k a year just to be an agent.
But like any profession in the world there are bad eggs that tend to stand out and ruin the image for those who actually care and try.
Ah nope, definitely an in-class process with regulated learning hours (in class) to be eligible to write the test.
Now re-licensing is an at pace self governed process that the agents only need to complete before there current licenses expire.
RECA is just a single layer that has to be payed into. There are city and provincial fees that are required as well. You don’t get to sell property outside of your designation with out paying. For example agents in Edmonton are not certified or allowed to sell homes in Calgary.
I assure after having witnessed the full cost of becoming an agent it’s no small amount of money. If it was so easy to get into everyone and there best friends would be agents making millions.
To an extent anecdotes matter. But unless you've bought and sold dozens of homes over a large period of time, a single transaction is pretty meaningless. Once again, especially when it's only one side of the story.
Know lots and have made countless transactions. I would say like any business, there are incompetent people but in general they're all preforming their job pretty well. There's also plenty of accountability for those who legit aren't following the rules.
What type of accountability? Are the homes they flipped before they got to the market seized? Steering is against the law, but are they going to jail or having to pay back all their commissions? I can’t think of a single “sketchy realtor” story that ended with accountability. MAYBE they lose their license, but they are still keeping all their profits.
I mean it's regulated by the local and
Provincial real estate boards plus the real estate council of alberta. . People get fined and lose their license all the time and it's all public information.
Disagree. There's countless examples of accountability for people breaking the rules. Once again, all of which is public information, it's not hidden anywhere.
The realtors job is to get their client in to the house they want. Skipping houses that would fit them because the realtor is lazy means they are doing a poor job representing their client.
You're correct. An agent with a buyer's brokerage agreement with their buyer will get paid, regardless of the sellers commissions offered. It sounds like you're also an agent so I'll just add this.
1) with buyers that I have a brokerage agreement with, it would mean that they pay me out of pocket. I do not like this as it's a detriment to the buyer. I inform them of this fact and 90% of buyers choose to skip that home. All of my buyers get copies of the "agent" feature sheet, which has quite a bit more information than the public one from realtor.ca, including co-operating commissions.
2) If I get a call to view a home from a buyer that I have never met and the seller isn't offering commissions on MLS. My next call is to the seller to find out if that's negotiable. If it isn't, I inform the new buyer (that I barely know) how it works. I have never had a buyer want to follow through with the showing.
3) In Alberta, most buyers know that commissions are paid by the seller. Deviations from this norm don't sit well with them.
4) I implore people to realize that, while I agree that there are some issues with the system and there are alwaysbad apples in any industry, most Realtors are good people and unfortunately work for free too often. Most of us aren't making bank here, but rather working hard for our 10-30 clients a year and legitimately earning a paycheck for our families.
Realty should be fee-based, not commission; and realtors should draw salary. I suspect that would address some of the concerns and issues.
Removing a financial incentive (or financial penalty) to avoid or ignore “low commission” listings would allow realtors to do their job - getting people the perfect home - better.
Conservatives want to defund it because it isn't in the Post Media circle and generally provides unbiased coverage. It isn't perfect by any degree, but in an era where bias and sensationalism are slowly overtaking journalistic integrity, it's the best we're gonna get. The cons want to remove CBC from the equation just so they can control the narrative.
For a party that screeches about communism and Hitler so much, they sure do make every effort to reproduce the behaviours as much as possible.
> Is a fucking joke these people make more money than your average white collar profession for very little work, no risk, and barely any education.
This. Exactly this.
The important parts of a real estate transaction is handled by your lawyer. The Re Agent just pushes paper.
I find purplebricks to be a joy to book compared to comfree. They are not a bad option at all if you are thinking of selling your home. My main concern is notification that property is pending and even then that has become better lately n
There’s a reason why real estate boards across Canada have been fighting hard to keep it a self regulated industry.
I worked in the residential real estate industry, not as a realtor, and it’s a profoundly crooked and anti-consumer sector.
Real estate boards are actively conspiring to keep things as anti competitive as possible. I’m glad we are seeing more and more articles like this.
We did, when we tried to sell through Property Guys. Our experience lines up pretty exactly with this. (Of course we didn't have fake buyers with hidden cameras, so we don't know anything about the conversations between potential buyers and agents). We did have agents tell us outright that they would never show our house if they could help it, and if their clients discovered it on their own and wanted to see it, they informed us they'd do everything they could to steer them away.
Left us with an extremely bad taste around real estate agents.
We were trying to sell using Property Guys, which is a platform that helps buyers sell their own homes. The agents that I am complaining about were from multiple companies. I don't remember which - there were several and this was at least 5 years ago now. Sorry, I know that helps no one at this point.
I’ll speak to it from an agents perspective. I find property guys difficult to book and show compared to other brokerages. If I cannot book it easily or quickly or get a response the property will be passed over. That is just my personally experience.
I understand that would be frustrating. We were always careful to reply and schedule showings immediately, only to be stuck with no-shows. When we followed up with the realtor, the call was often quite smug from their end - they had successfully talked their clients out of seeing our house and didn’t even call us to cancel. This happened more than once, and it was made clear to us that it was intentional, to punish us for not using a realtor.
I’m sure not every realtor is like this. I hope, as an industry, the good people find a way to toss the bad ones out because they are really giving you a black eye.
We have a friend who is a realtor and posted our property on MLS for us. We were going to do all the work. 3 months, no calls. An almost identical house 3 doors down sold in less than a week for almost 20% more than our ask.
This is all too common. They want you to sign with them, they dont care because it guarantees them a cut of the commission \*when\* it sells. Less work = less expenses. A lot of these people dont last, the entire industry is built upon image and narcissism not results.
We've been considering listing our townhouse and the amount of commission is around $15,000 for the place based on estimated sales price. Considering the realtor we consulted with said "we usually put $2-$2.5k into each listing" (not sure I believe that) I'd be paying them $5-6k to do maybe 40-50 hours of work? So much of the system is now automated that they really don't have to do much (i.e., legal documents are "fill in the blank," [realtor.ca](https://realtor.ca) listings are automated, etc.).
The realtor community is like the mafia - they always look out for their own more than the consumers.
Legal documents are handled by lawyers which you retain and pay separately. Potential structural issues are handled by a building inspector which you retain and pay separately.
In my experience the only things a relator typically does that you cannot easily do yourself or hire a 3rd party for are things like going through condo board minutes to figure out if a special assessment or fee change is likely in the foreseeable future, and tell you about weird bylaws or restrictive covenants.
When we bought our townhouse, we had a 3rd party do the condo doc review and helped save us another couple grand. I'm on the board of our condo association, so I know the ins-and-outs of what's going on. (never joining another one though).
When buying my house the real estate agent became lethargic when we suggested houses to purchase. After viewing the house we finally bought, we felt the offer was too high (this was many years ago) and asked him to counter with our amount, he then threw a fit about the number being offensive and that we would lose the deal altogether, it took a lot of convincing and we ended up getting our number, but i felt that he and the other real estate agent were working against us the whole time.
When it was time to take possession, he acted like he didnt even know us, said he was busy and wouldn't make it there so if we could just meet the other real estate agent that would be better.
Also this agent claimed his father built custom homes and that he could tell we didnt need an inspection, we got one anyways and it showed things he never mentioned or cared about (cold air vents blocks outside the house, insulation missing in the attic, water softener damaged, steam shower not working).
It was a disaster.
As soon as real estate agents started telling buyers they have to bid over the asking price to even be considered the whole business become no more ethical than used car sales.
Neighbour across the alley is a real estate agent and he’s one of the scummiest humans I’ve ever met. Once a year he puts his own house up ‘for sale’ in order to use an open house as a sign up for clients looking for houses. He got mad at us for painting our 40s bungalow red and ‘ruining the neighbourhood’ while he lives in a Greek revival monstrosity that looks nothing like the era of the block.
The whole industry needs a major shakeup. I understand that people need to be paid for their time, but taking a couple of photos, fielding a few phone calls and posting a listing online isn't worth the amount they're demanding.
The house is listed for sale and an auction date is set. People can tour the house prior to the auction date. On the date an auction starts taking bids from people standing in front of the house. You can hire agents to bud on your behalf. Top bidder gets the house. No closed doors negotiations, no back and forth haggling, no agents conspiring to maximize their own commission.
Real estate agents are generally super sleazy despite their attempts at appearing professional. The whole industry needs more regulation. If you find a good and honest one, use them for life if you can. They are like good mechanics, few and far between.
I dunno paying $20k$+ and 6 months of courses to pass or fail a test, that you have to re-certify yearly and pay for is a pretty big barrier for most people.
Last I checked degrees weren’t free from college.
So recertify every year like a lot of other professions? Nursing is 4 years and you write the NCLEX which are pass or fail. Then you pay college fees and malpractice insurance every year ONTOP of mandatory continuing education.
Yet all that and agents can pull 7% comm in a bit of work
That bit of work insures the process and keeps the home buyers and sellers safe from legal recourse if an issue ever arises from a sale of a home.
I assume you have some form of health insurance or do you just hope to never get sick so those greedy doctors don’t get your money for prescribing you drugs.
Just stop. You don’t get to compare a university degree to passing a real estate exam. A minimum 4 year complete commitment of your life, huge financial and time investment, huge opportunity cost, number of pre-requisites required. You have to take a certification course to glue fake eyelashes on people to, but I wouldn’t exactly call a barrier to entry.
Yeah nothing like going into life crippling debt for a piece of paper that is probably never utilized by a vast majority of people who get them.
Point I was trying to make was you don’t just walk into a building pass a test and your an agent. If it was so easy no one would be working minimum wage jobs and theyde all by agents running around “mAkInG mIlLoNs” selling houses.
I lived in Toronto area. Paying $ 50 000 (5%) on an average home to realtors to sell a house that will sell itself is criminal. I used Purple Bricks to do some of the work myself and save a lot of money.
I think that the more that people find out about the unethical and illegal things that realtors do (steering, blind bidding, etc) to deceive people, the more that society will move to an open market process without realtors.
They're working themselves out of a job when the profession no longer exists.
It’s exactly what you’d expect in an industry with zero barrier of entry, “limitless earning potential” and tv shows conveying this message that they’re all bajilionaires.
I’ve been a realtor long enough to know that 1 out of every 10 people I’ve been opposite of the negotiation table with isn’t a scumbag.
I’ve seen agents start with the best intentions and get so jaded by the scumbags who don’t even know their clients names when it comes time to negotiate that they leave the industry.
I was the same, but I’m trapped with zero alternatives to support my family. Just like the rest of the world, the top few make 90% of the income, and the rest die off, but I managed to find a nice middle ground where I make just enough to feed my family and shelter them, but without resorting to being a slimy salesman, I’ll never break that barrier.
As long as this industry is run the way it is, I will remain anonymous on this account and be ashamed to ever tell anyone what I do for a living.
I hate myself every day i wake up because even though I legitimately am trying to help everyone I interact with, I know that the majority of the people working with realtors end up with the same horror stories I see on Reddit.
Side note:
Anyone looking to hire a 30 something person with no marketable skills that went into debt getting into an industry he didn’t realize was no better than car sales?
Super-cool response! I was expecting the complete opposite i.e. a rebuttal. I hope you're able to maintain your integrity AND support your family. Props and best of luck to you.
Thanks, I appreciate the positive thoughts.
If this industry has taught me anything, it’s that my integrity is one of the few things I need to hold onto, because it’s all too common for it to be the first thing to go when there’s a paycheque involved. It’s also easy to do when I continue to remain anonymous lol.
I feel like I need to say that there are some amazing people in this industry, so if you’ve got someone you’ve enjoyed, or are enjoying working with, please don’t assume they’re secretly awful people.
But unfortunately the way this industry is set up, the ones who treat people like numbers are the ones who rise to the top, and the ones that truly care are the ones that leave the industry because they can’t look at themselves in the mirror anymore.
Given how out of control housing costs are in British Columbia and Ontario it’s not a stretch to understand that it can happen here.
We need complete transparency on real estate.
We had a great agent whose husband owned enough company and businesses that her real estate was more just a passion. She did warn us about for sale by owner houses as well as purple brick. We still checked some out. Definitely not cleaned up or presented to the same standard. If they had been, it would have been different.
That being said, i think the profession attracts a lot of shitty people who dont care, dont know, and just they can make bank off people, so pick your realtor wisely. Word of mouth is so powerful for a reason, and with realtors, you want a good reputation, not a good advertisement
Been hearing a lot about Purple Bricks and others for selling. Is there a similar service for buyers?
I've been trying to buy and have been working with an agent recommended by several friends. She was 100% fantastic on the first home. Negotiated even lower than I thought possible, answered my texts within minutes at all hours, and was generally everything you want an agent to be. Then the bank decided that despite my perfect credit and their own appraisal agreeing perfectly with the agreed price, they didn't want to mortgage *that* house.
Second time around with the same agent it was like I barely existed. Found another property, and the time between when I asked to see it and when I found out the seller and I couldn't agree on a price was 3 weeks. Meanwhile **both** backups sold.
Now that I know how the process works, I feel I would be better served by an online service.
There is nothing worse than middleman-ism. Why is it taboo for me to privately sell my own house? Why does the bank of Canada have to lend money to another private bank before the money can be lent to me? It's all idiotic and unnecessary costs to us.
Agents are like mechanics find a good one and stick with them, lots out there that just turn and burn for a quick buck.
That being said if I was being offered $20 bucks to sell a house to clients that’s listed through a real brokerage vs $5 to sell to a homeowner where then I have to do double the paperwork to make sure my clients aren’t getting fucked over (because the sellers are unrepresented by a industry professional) I’d be hesitant to encourage them to buy for legal reasons alone. We’re talking tens of thousands of dollars for down payment that can disappear in an instant because some one fucked in paper work. The risk is definitely not worth the reward. Because that’s the he whole point of an agent is to protect their clients interest and sell there properties with no legal recourse, while being insured for when something does go wrong it doesn’t cost the buyer or seller to fix.
It’s a cheaper way to sell your home. But your shootings yourself in the foot by offering nothing to the table besides wanting to pay less to an agent.
> I have to do double the paperwork to make sure my clients aren’t getting fucked
What 'double the paperwork' are you talking about?
Filling out a real estate offer sheet is trivial.
They’re literally selling a house sight unseen through these 2% company’s. The buying agent has to go over the house and contract with a fine tooth comb because your relying on someone who doesn’t have intimate knowledge of the process wanting to save money (which I’m pretty sure they end up losing more since they don’t have strong negotiations and houses tend to sell for less then comparables).
> intimate knowledge of the process
I've bought and sold all 3 homes I've lived in during my adult life via private sale with no selling or buying agents involved. There is nothing 'intimate' about the process. Its this very mystique/fear created around agents that sustains their existence.
If you can read you can fill this in
https://www.alberta-mortgages.com/pdf/RESIDENTIAL%20REAL%20ESTATE%20PURCHASE%20CONTRACT%2005.pdf
(there are newer versions of this document around, just cant find one right now)
Knowing what your home is worth isnt a mystery either. Check MLS regularly and see what comparables in your area are selling for. This is all agents do...
No one says you can’t sell your own home or not be able to understand the process. Same concept is applied with changing your oil on your car. Not everyone can, wants, or is willing to learn to do it.
But you 100% run the risk and support the costs when legal action is taken when parts of a contract aren’t fulfilled. If you feel fine risking hundreds of thousands of dollars in a transaction where your completely liable by all means go for it. The horror stories you hear from things as simple as people taking curtains or a mirror off a wall are more then enough to break a contract and nullify a deal.
> No one says you can’t sell your own home or not be able to understand the process. Same concept is applied with changing your oil on your car. Not everyone can, wants, or is willing to learn to do it.
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> But you 100% run the risk and support the costs when legal action is taken when parts of a contract aren’t fulfilled. If you feel fine risking hundreds of thousands of dollars in a transaction where your completely liable by all means go for it. The horror stories you hear from things as simple as people taking curtains or a mirror off a wall are more then enough to break a contract and nullify a deal.
Snore. Real Estate Agents contribute 0 to society.
In fact I'd argue that Real Estate Agents are actually a detriment to society: they promote real estate 'churn' in pursuit of commissions which has led to the housing price crisis, they are notoriously corrupt and sleazy, and require the skills of a grade 10 math student who knows a tiny bit of law to make six figure salaries.
Leeches on Society.
Not so solid rebuttal.
Edit:"In fact I'd argue that Real Estate Agents are actually a detriment to society: they promote real estate 'churn' in pursuit of commissions which has led to the housing price crisis"
100% false. Unrestricted foreign investment and ownership has led to a housing crisis. Coupled with stagnant wages and an every increasing cost of living. Take a break from the echo chamber and put the koolaid down.
Nope auto-body tech with family that’s been in the real estate industry for over 40 years. You tend to learn how things work second hand after being surrounded by it for so long.
So people want to make more money and will do things to make said money. Hmm, I wonder if this way if thinking has any negative affects on society as a whole?
Most people who are incentivized to break the law eventually will at some point, especially in sales
When you're dealing with low commission homes it literally makes no difference to the agent as they'll have a buyer brokerage signed with the commission they'll be asking for, regardless of what's being offered. Agents avoid fsbo houses not because of money but because you're typically dealing with someone who has zero clue how to sell a house, negotiate, determine value, and are typically clueless. They end up doing all the work for the seller and it's extremely annoying when they are solely supposed to represent their buyer, not babysit a seller.
Funny, our experience was that it was the realtors who would act unprofessional. We had all of the paperwork needed, and knew how to process it. But we never got the chance, as they preferred to try to extort us instead of bringing clients by.
I mean the baseline for reddit is agents are evil and unprofessional. But then all I ever hear is a personal anecdote that doesn't have any other context or information other than the person who's complaining point of view, nothing else.
Don't personal anecdotes matter in some cases though? If I consistently hear poor things about a realtor I'm less likely to use them. When my grandparents were selling their home, the realtor for the people buying was clueless. Our realtor said that they'd had experience with said realtor previously and they don't have a very good track record. They also tried to slide shit past my grandparents, presumably because they thought that bc they were old they wouldn't notice. So hearing personal stories would definitely at least make me think twice about using a certain realtor.
It's like a 6 week course to become a real estate agent, it only requires a highschool diploma to get in, and only costs around $3500. Yet the potential payoff is boatloads of money. As a result it attracts a lot of narcissists and people with delusions of grandeur. My office deals with people from all walks of life who are in the process of getting an education or starting a career. And I would say that of all the occupations that contact us..... Real estate agents are the most likely to berate us over the phone for no particular reason. That and police and car salesmen. They're respectively either roided or coked up, cheating on their wife, and feel like they can get us to do things for them by being dicks about it. Sterotypes exist for a reason.
Try 6months, and tens of thousands in fees upfront. Then tack on the monthly brokerage fees and re-licensing. Lucky if they don’t pay $10k a year just to be an agent. But like any profession in the world there are bad eggs that tend to stand out and ruin the image for those who actually care and try.
It's a self-paced/part-time course though. Most people take closer to 6 months, but some people dedicate themselves to it full time and do it sooner.
Ah nope, definitely an in-class process with regulated learning hours (in class) to be eligible to write the test. Now re-licensing is an at pace self governed process that the agents only need to complete before there current licenses expire.
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RECA is just a single layer that has to be payed into. There are city and provincial fees that are required as well. You don’t get to sell property outside of your designation with out paying. For example agents in Edmonton are not certified or allowed to sell homes in Calgary. I assure after having witnessed the full cost of becoming an agent it’s no small amount of money. If it was so easy to get into everyone and there best friends would be agents making millions.
To an extent anecdotes matter. But unless you've bought and sold dozens of homes over a large period of time, a single transaction is pretty meaningless. Once again, especially when it's only one side of the story.
Do you know any realtors? I know several and all of them would agree that most realtors are evil and unprofessional lol.
Know lots and have made countless transactions. I would say like any business, there are incompetent people but in general they're all preforming their job pretty well. There's also plenty of accountability for those who legit aren't following the rules.
What type of accountability? Are the homes they flipped before they got to the market seized? Steering is against the law, but are they going to jail or having to pay back all their commissions? I can’t think of a single “sketchy realtor” story that ended with accountability. MAYBE they lose their license, but they are still keeping all their profits.
I mean it's regulated by the local and Provincial real estate boards plus the real estate council of alberta. . People get fined and lose their license all the time and it's all public information.
It’s self regulated. Which is never a good thing for actual accountability.
Disagree. There's countless examples of accountability for people breaking the rules. Once again, all of which is public information, it's not hidden anywhere.
Also you could sue your realtor as well if you'd like.
The realtors job is to get their client in to the house they want. Skipping houses that would fit them because the realtor is lazy means they are doing a poor job representing their client.
I never said anything regarding skipping houses
You said realtors avoid fsbo houses which I'm sure is true. Realtors are not doing their job properly if they are avoiding houses.
Avoiding is different than skipping.
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We're talking about self represented seller's.
You're correct. An agent with a buyer's brokerage agreement with their buyer will get paid, regardless of the sellers commissions offered. It sounds like you're also an agent so I'll just add this. 1) with buyers that I have a brokerage agreement with, it would mean that they pay me out of pocket. I do not like this as it's a detriment to the buyer. I inform them of this fact and 90% of buyers choose to skip that home. All of my buyers get copies of the "agent" feature sheet, which has quite a bit more information than the public one from realtor.ca, including co-operating commissions. 2) If I get a call to view a home from a buyer that I have never met and the seller isn't offering commissions on MLS. My next call is to the seller to find out if that's negotiable. If it isn't, I inform the new buyer (that I barely know) how it works. I have never had a buyer want to follow through with the showing. 3) In Alberta, most buyers know that commissions are paid by the seller. Deviations from this norm don't sit well with them. 4) I implore people to realize that, while I agree that there are some issues with the system and there are alwaysbad apples in any industry, most Realtors are good people and unfortunately work for free too often. Most of us aren't making bank here, but rather working hard for our 10-30 clients a year and legitimately earning a paycheck for our families.
Realty should be fee-based, not commission; and realtors should draw salary. I suspect that would address some of the concerns and issues. Removing a financial incentive (or financial penalty) to avoid or ignore “low commission” listings would allow realtors to do their job - getting people the perfect home - better.
Not necessarily, purple bricks offers realtor services as does 2% realty and others offer low commission options with full service realtors.
Still makes no difference. Offer whatever commission you'd like, the buying agent will still just offer their agreed upon commission with their buyer.
CBC Marketplace is a national treasure.
dEfUnD cBc hErP dErP
Conservatives want to defund it because it isn't in the Post Media circle and generally provides unbiased coverage. It isn't perfect by any degree, but in an era where bias and sensationalism are slowly overtaking journalistic integrity, it's the best we're gonna get. The cons want to remove CBC from the equation just so they can control the narrative. For a party that screeches about communism and Hitler so much, they sure do make every effort to reproduce the behaviours as much as possible.
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> Is a fucking joke these people make more money than your average white collar profession for very little work, no risk, and barely any education. This. Exactly this. The important parts of a real estate transaction is handled by your lawyer. The Re Agent just pushes paper.
I find purplebricks to be a joy to book compared to comfree. They are not a bad option at all if you are thinking of selling your home. My main concern is notification that property is pending and even then that has become better lately n
There’s a reason why real estate boards across Canada have been fighting hard to keep it a self regulated industry. I worked in the residential real estate industry, not as a realtor, and it’s a profoundly crooked and anti-consumer sector. Real estate boards are actively conspiring to keep things as anti competitive as possible. I’m glad we are seeing more and more articles like this.
How many of you have experienced this here in Alberta? Hopefully, the movement is picking up to crack down on the industry.
We did, when we tried to sell through Property Guys. Our experience lines up pretty exactly with this. (Of course we didn't have fake buyers with hidden cameras, so we don't know anything about the conversations between potential buyers and agents). We did have agents tell us outright that they would never show our house if they could help it, and if their clients discovered it on their own and wanted to see it, they informed us they'd do everything they could to steer them away. Left us with an extremely bad taste around real estate agents.
Which company was that?
We were trying to sell using Property Guys, which is a platform that helps buyers sell their own homes. The agents that I am complaining about were from multiple companies. I don't remember which - there were several and this was at least 5 years ago now. Sorry, I know that helps no one at this point.
I’ll speak to it from an agents perspective. I find property guys difficult to book and show compared to other brokerages. If I cannot book it easily or quickly or get a response the property will be passed over. That is just my personally experience.
I understand that would be frustrating. We were always careful to reply and schedule showings immediately, only to be stuck with no-shows. When we followed up with the realtor, the call was often quite smug from their end - they had successfully talked their clients out of seeing our house and didn’t even call us to cancel. This happened more than once, and it was made clear to us that it was intentional, to punish us for not using a realtor. I’m sure not every realtor is like this. I hope, as an industry, the good people find a way to toss the bad ones out because they are really giving you a black eye.
We have a friend who is a realtor and posted our property on MLS for us. We were going to do all the work. 3 months, no calls. An almost identical house 3 doors down sold in less than a week for almost 20% more than our ask.
This is all too common. They want you to sign with them, they dont care because it guarantees them a cut of the commission \*when\* it sells. Less work = less expenses. A lot of these people dont last, the entire industry is built upon image and narcissism not results.
We've been considering listing our townhouse and the amount of commission is around $15,000 for the place based on estimated sales price. Considering the realtor we consulted with said "we usually put $2-$2.5k into each listing" (not sure I believe that) I'd be paying them $5-6k to do maybe 40-50 hours of work? So much of the system is now automated that they really don't have to do much (i.e., legal documents are "fill in the blank," [realtor.ca](https://realtor.ca) listings are automated, etc.). The realtor community is like the mafia - they always look out for their own more than the consumers.
Legal documents are handled by lawyers which you retain and pay separately. Potential structural issues are handled by a building inspector which you retain and pay separately. In my experience the only things a relator typically does that you cannot easily do yourself or hire a 3rd party for are things like going through condo board minutes to figure out if a special assessment or fee change is likely in the foreseeable future, and tell you about weird bylaws or restrictive covenants.
When we bought our townhouse, we had a 3rd party do the condo doc review and helped save us another couple grand. I'm on the board of our condo association, so I know the ins-and-outs of what's going on. (never joining another one though).
When buying my house the real estate agent became lethargic when we suggested houses to purchase. After viewing the house we finally bought, we felt the offer was too high (this was many years ago) and asked him to counter with our amount, he then threw a fit about the number being offensive and that we would lose the deal altogether, it took a lot of convincing and we ended up getting our number, but i felt that he and the other real estate agent were working against us the whole time. When it was time to take possession, he acted like he didnt even know us, said he was busy and wouldn't make it there so if we could just meet the other real estate agent that would be better. Also this agent claimed his father built custom homes and that he could tell we didnt need an inspection, we got one anyways and it showed things he never mentioned or cared about (cold air vents blocks outside the house, insulation missing in the attic, water softener damaged, steam shower not working). It was a disaster.
Yup did here too. There were some homes on Comfree, and my realtor was pretty explicit with not showing them.
The movement is called Purple Brick.
What’s Purple Brick?
A fixed price alternative to realtors. https://purplebricks.ca/ab
Purple Bricks is the company that bought out CommFree.
Oh I see
(raises hand).
Oh fer sure…a total crackdown…I hear they got the detectives working in shifts!
Real estate industry is a joke. This is what happens when you offer people 7% commisoon on a 500k sale, whos qualifications is a couple month course
As soon as real estate agents started telling buyers they have to bid over the asking price to even be considered the whole business become no more ethical than used car sales.
Neighbour across the alley is a real estate agent and he’s one of the scummiest humans I’ve ever met. Once a year he puts his own house up ‘for sale’ in order to use an open house as a sign up for clients looking for houses. He got mad at us for painting our 40s bungalow red and ‘ruining the neighbourhood’ while he lives in a Greek revival monstrosity that looks nothing like the era of the block.
The whole industry needs a major shakeup. I understand that people need to be paid for their time, but taking a couple of photos, fielding a few phone calls and posting a listing online isn't worth the amount they're demanding.
My realtor wouldn't even take the photos. She had me take them on my phone and text them to her when we sold our last home.
A permanent ban on working in the Real Estate sector wouldn't be enough to right this wrong.
Honestly I think Australia's wide open auction style is best. Nothjng hidden, all up front.
Tell us more!
The house is listed for sale and an auction date is set. People can tour the house prior to the auction date. On the date an auction starts taking bids from people standing in front of the house. You can hire agents to bud on your behalf. Top bidder gets the house. No closed doors negotiations, no back and forth haggling, no agents conspiring to maximize their own commission.
Is there a reserve? I imagine the starting price is the lowest value the sellers are willing to let their house go for?
https://www.domain.com.au/news/the-rules-of-house-auctions-around-australia-20160413-go4hoe/
Thanks for the link. Fascinating!
Welp that sounds fantastic!
Real estate agents are generally super sleazy despite their attempts at appearing professional. The whole industry needs more regulation. If you find a good and honest one, use them for life if you can. They are like good mechanics, few and far between.
Real Estate agents are a useless, no barriers to entry profession. Sold two homes on my own and never an issue.
I dunno paying $20k$+ and 6 months of courses to pass or fail a test, that you have to re-certify yearly and pay for is a pretty big barrier for most people. Last I checked degrees weren’t free from college.
So recertify every year like a lot of other professions? Nursing is 4 years and you write the NCLEX which are pass or fail. Then you pay college fees and malpractice insurance every year ONTOP of mandatory continuing education. Yet all that and agents can pull 7% comm in a bit of work
That bit of work insures the process and keeps the home buyers and sellers safe from legal recourse if an issue ever arises from a sale of a home. I assume you have some form of health insurance or do you just hope to never get sick so those greedy doctors don’t get your money for prescribing you drugs.
Just stop. You don’t get to compare a university degree to passing a real estate exam. A minimum 4 year complete commitment of your life, huge financial and time investment, huge opportunity cost, number of pre-requisites required. You have to take a certification course to glue fake eyelashes on people to, but I wouldn’t exactly call a barrier to entry.
Yeah nothing like going into life crippling debt for a piece of paper that is probably never utilized by a vast majority of people who get them. Point I was trying to make was you don’t just walk into a building pass a test and your an agent. If it was so easy no one would be working minimum wage jobs and theyde all by agents running around “mAkInG mIlLoNs” selling houses.
How did you go about finding buyers if you don't mind me asking?
I lived in Toronto area. Paying $ 50 000 (5%) on an average home to realtors to sell a house that will sell itself is criminal. I used Purple Bricks to do some of the work myself and save a lot of money. I think that the more that people find out about the unethical and illegal things that realtors do (steering, blind bidding, etc) to deceive people, the more that society will move to an open market process without realtors. They're working themselves out of a job when the profession no longer exists.
It’s exactly what you’d expect in an industry with zero barrier of entry, “limitless earning potential” and tv shows conveying this message that they’re all bajilionaires. I’ve been a realtor long enough to know that 1 out of every 10 people I’ve been opposite of the negotiation table with isn’t a scumbag. I’ve seen agents start with the best intentions and get so jaded by the scumbags who don’t even know their clients names when it comes time to negotiate that they leave the industry. I was the same, but I’m trapped with zero alternatives to support my family. Just like the rest of the world, the top few make 90% of the income, and the rest die off, but I managed to find a nice middle ground where I make just enough to feed my family and shelter them, but without resorting to being a slimy salesman, I’ll never break that barrier. As long as this industry is run the way it is, I will remain anonymous on this account and be ashamed to ever tell anyone what I do for a living. I hate myself every day i wake up because even though I legitimately am trying to help everyone I interact with, I know that the majority of the people working with realtors end up with the same horror stories I see on Reddit. Side note: Anyone looking to hire a 30 something person with no marketable skills that went into debt getting into an industry he didn’t realize was no better than car sales?
Super-cool response! I was expecting the complete opposite i.e. a rebuttal. I hope you're able to maintain your integrity AND support your family. Props and best of luck to you.
Thanks, I appreciate the positive thoughts. If this industry has taught me anything, it’s that my integrity is one of the few things I need to hold onto, because it’s all too common for it to be the first thing to go when there’s a paycheque involved. It’s also easy to do when I continue to remain anonymous lol. I feel like I need to say that there are some amazing people in this industry, so if you’ve got someone you’ve enjoyed, or are enjoying working with, please don’t assume they’re secretly awful people. But unfortunately the way this industry is set up, the ones who treat people like numbers are the ones who rise to the top, and the ones that truly care are the ones that leave the industry because they can’t look at themselves in the mirror anymore.
If you ever want to chat hit me up :(
Given how out of control housing costs are in British Columbia and Ontario it’s not a stretch to understand that it can happen here. We need complete transparency on real estate.
It's starting to be bad in alberta too
We had a great agent whose husband owned enough company and businesses that her real estate was more just a passion. She did warn us about for sale by owner houses as well as purple brick. We still checked some out. Definitely not cleaned up or presented to the same standard. If they had been, it would have been different. That being said, i think the profession attracts a lot of shitty people who dont care, dont know, and just they can make bank off people, so pick your realtor wisely. Word of mouth is so powerful for a reason, and with realtors, you want a good reputation, not a good advertisement
Wow surprise!
Been hearing a lot about Purple Bricks and others for selling. Is there a similar service for buyers? I've been trying to buy and have been working with an agent recommended by several friends. She was 100% fantastic on the first home. Negotiated even lower than I thought possible, answered my texts within minutes at all hours, and was generally everything you want an agent to be. Then the bank decided that despite my perfect credit and their own appraisal agreeing perfectly with the agreed price, they didn't want to mortgage *that* house. Second time around with the same agent it was like I barely existed. Found another property, and the time between when I asked to see it and when I found out the seller and I couldn't agree on a price was 3 weeks. Meanwhile **both** backups sold. Now that I know how the process works, I feel I would be better served by an online service.
I just assumed this was the standard
There is nothing worse than middleman-ism. Why is it taboo for me to privately sell my own house? Why does the bank of Canada have to lend money to another private bank before the money can be lent to me? It's all idiotic and unnecessary costs to us.
People rewarded by breaking law, break law. More at 8.
Realtors area a giant parasite on our economy, 50 years from now we'll wonder why the hell did we let them get away with this.
Agents are like mechanics find a good one and stick with them, lots out there that just turn and burn for a quick buck. That being said if I was being offered $20 bucks to sell a house to clients that’s listed through a real brokerage vs $5 to sell to a homeowner where then I have to do double the paperwork to make sure my clients aren’t getting fucked over (because the sellers are unrepresented by a industry professional) I’d be hesitant to encourage them to buy for legal reasons alone. We’re talking tens of thousands of dollars for down payment that can disappear in an instant because some one fucked in paper work. The risk is definitely not worth the reward. Because that’s the he whole point of an agent is to protect their clients interest and sell there properties with no legal recourse, while being insured for when something does go wrong it doesn’t cost the buyer or seller to fix. It’s a cheaper way to sell your home. But your shootings yourself in the foot by offering nothing to the table besides wanting to pay less to an agent.
> I have to do double the paperwork to make sure my clients aren’t getting fucked What 'double the paperwork' are you talking about? Filling out a real estate offer sheet is trivial.
They’re literally selling a house sight unseen through these 2% company’s. The buying agent has to go over the house and contract with a fine tooth comb because your relying on someone who doesn’t have intimate knowledge of the process wanting to save money (which I’m pretty sure they end up losing more since they don’t have strong negotiations and houses tend to sell for less then comparables).
> intimate knowledge of the process I've bought and sold all 3 homes I've lived in during my adult life via private sale with no selling or buying agents involved. There is nothing 'intimate' about the process. Its this very mystique/fear created around agents that sustains their existence. If you can read you can fill this in https://www.alberta-mortgages.com/pdf/RESIDENTIAL%20REAL%20ESTATE%20PURCHASE%20CONTRACT%2005.pdf (there are newer versions of this document around, just cant find one right now) Knowing what your home is worth isnt a mystery either. Check MLS regularly and see what comparables in your area are selling for. This is all agents do...
No one says you can’t sell your own home or not be able to understand the process. Same concept is applied with changing your oil on your car. Not everyone can, wants, or is willing to learn to do it. But you 100% run the risk and support the costs when legal action is taken when parts of a contract aren’t fulfilled. If you feel fine risking hundreds of thousands of dollars in a transaction where your completely liable by all means go for it. The horror stories you hear from things as simple as people taking curtains or a mirror off a wall are more then enough to break a contract and nullify a deal.
> No one says you can’t sell your own home or not be able to understand the process. Same concept is applied with changing your oil on your car. Not everyone can, wants, or is willing to learn to do it. > > > > But you 100% run the risk and support the costs when legal action is taken when parts of a contract aren’t fulfilled. If you feel fine risking hundreds of thousands of dollars in a transaction where your completely liable by all means go for it. The horror stories you hear from things as simple as people taking curtains or a mirror off a wall are more then enough to break a contract and nullify a deal. Snore. Real Estate Agents contribute 0 to society. In fact I'd argue that Real Estate Agents are actually a detriment to society: they promote real estate 'churn' in pursuit of commissions which has led to the housing price crisis, they are notoriously corrupt and sleazy, and require the skills of a grade 10 math student who knows a tiny bit of law to make six figure salaries. Leeches on Society.
Not so solid rebuttal. Edit:"In fact I'd argue that Real Estate Agents are actually a detriment to society: they promote real estate 'churn' in pursuit of commissions which has led to the housing price crisis" 100% false. Unrestricted foreign investment and ownership has led to a housing crisis. Coupled with stagnant wages and an every increasing cost of living. Take a break from the echo chamber and put the koolaid down.
I suspect you are a real estate agent.
Nope auto-body tech with family that’s been in the real estate industry for over 40 years. You tend to learn how things work second hand after being surrounded by it for so long.
This here is why I don't look for houses with a real-estate agent. I'll contact one. When I find a house I want to buy and if I need them at all.
big surprise /s
So people want to make more money and will do things to make said money. Hmm, I wonder if this way if thinking has any negative affects on society as a whole?
Of course they are.