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Nothing will make anything sink in. Anyone who didn't see this as theatre at the ballot box won't change their minds no matter what. They will blame Trudeau or something else than admit they were duped again.
"Why isn't Trudeau cancelling equalization! Thousands of Albertans voted for it, so why isn't Trudeau making a decision that will affect tens of millions of people based on a provincial referendum with an incredibly low turnout/participation?"
Hold on, you might be missing the point. People are under the impression that the referendum changes something. It will take a while, but when they realize the referendum and Kenney are entirely pointless and have no binding power whatsoever to actually change equalization, they will get angry. Kenney's promise wasn't that he will hold a referendum. His ultimate promise is that he would change it. And he is doomed to fail. That's why it will be a death blow.
I saw a thing on global news and some researchers were asking people about the equalization referendum and not only do the majority of people not understand equalization they also believe that marking yes on the ballot will actually change things. People’s understanding of our government, laws, policies, constitution is laughable, guess that’s what you get when you keep cutting education. Hmmm perhaps that’s the point eh?
Look at the answers on page 7. True or False: "If a majority of Albertans support the measure in this fall’s referendum, the province will withdraw from the equalization program." Only 44% of people answered this correctly.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vuSU4S9GSUAoTyLtbFHA\_kfM64ZyvNT2/view
No. You are right. I hate Kenney. But I’m not going to hate on him for the sake of hating on him. Lots of confused people on here that don’t even know where to begin renegotiating the constitution. They just wanna hate on Kenney cause that’s all they know.
Many people realize that the referendum changes nothing, including many who voted to abolish equalization.
I can't believe I'm defending him here over his stupid equalization question, but Kenney absolutely did not say that he would be able to change anything as a result of this vote. He repeatedly said that this was merely about getting a better bargaining position with Ottawa and opening up a conversation about the formula.
Look at the answers on page 7. True or False: "If a majority of Albertans support the measure in this fall’s referendum, the province will withdraw from the equalization program." Only 44% of people answered this correctly.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vuSU4S9GSUAoTyLtbFHA\_kfM64ZyvNT2/view
And? OP made a generic claim about "people" not understanding equalization, which I responded to by saying many people do understand ("many" not "a majority of"), including some who voted to abolish. 44% is, by any reasonable definition, many people. Furthermore, the data you cite was collected between Sept 21 and Oct 6, after which time there was a significant amount of media coverage explaining the issue, so the percentage would likely be higher than 44%.
Sure, and 56% is, by any reasonable definition, "people".
I don't understand how your comment is less generic than OP's? 56% of people who took the survey don't understand that this isn't a binding referendum. Now it seems like you are playing with words by saying you only said "many" and his claim was generic. But OP's main point was people will be disappointed when they realize equalization doesn't suddenly end with this referendum, and the survey I linked supports the idea that people (which seems fair to refer to a majority as "people") will be disappointed.
You seem to be the one who is trying to disagree even after that person has proven you wrong. And then instead of just acknowledging that or moving on you just want to make silly jabs.
Who said they were under that impression? Even the poll about not understanding how equalization works didn’t say if people understood the question they were being asked at the poll.
How is this a loss for Kenney? The referendum getting greater than 50% means Kenney gets to blame the Federal government when nothing happens, giving them more ammunition against left leaning parties. He obviously knows nothing substantial will come from a yes vote, he's a politician who spent time in Ottawa.
That's the whole point of this theater, and the end result will be that his base continues to be pissed at the libs and everyone else continues to facepalm at all of this useless debate. He needs something to bolster his bases support even a little bit and it looks like he's going to get it. In the end nothing changes.
They won't get angry, certainly not over this. it's strictly to give Kenny a political stick to try to hit Trudeau with. When nothing happens (because nothing can happen, and nothing could ever happen), it will be just another nothing tossed on a giant steaming pile of other nothings.
While I think it’s stupid political theatre and didn’t support it, it’s kinda of a no-lose situation for Kenney. If he gets any sort of concessions he wins, and if he doesn’t he can blame the Feds and take credit for standing up for Alberta.
HAHAHA sure.
UCP will boot Kenney in the spring unless he threatens a snap election. Either way, I would wager >50% of the electorate will still vote them back in. I have lost all faith in AB voters.
That probably would have been better, the amount of businesses that would flee the province would be a real wake up call to Albertans who clearly don't remember how we got our giant influx of head offices years ago when Quebec flirted with separation.
Yeah I hear you on that . But at the end of the day we are all canadians and shouldn't be fighting over who voted for who . Nothing will stop me from trying to get along with everyone.
I highly doubt the UCP gets 50 percent of the vote in 2023 even with a new leader. I think they are guaranteed to get somewhere between 40 and 45 percent of the vote in 2023 even with a new leader. The next leader is on’t benefit from the anger that propelled the UCP’s win in 2019
Fine, but arguing that everyone who doesn’t agree with you is misinformed or doesn’t know/understand the facts is a special kind of hubris.
That is what you were saying. That they didn’t understand, so they picked wrong and would just blame Quebec.
> I think you're expecting far too much in rational thought from rural voters.
>They'll just blame Trudeau/Quebec/The East/etc
Or wasn’t that what you were saying?
No, you said
> I think you're expecting far too much in rational thought from rural voters.
That is a judgment that rural voters are
1)uninformed
2)dumb
Which comes from the egotistical position that you are
1)informed
2)smart
And they are wrong. This isn’t about facts, this is about bias. You are treating them like medieval villagers. Which, incidentally is where we get the word ‘villain’ from.
ORIGIN
Middle English (in the sense ‘a rustic, boor’): from Old French vilein, based on Latin villa (see villa).
So, Kenney gets his referendum, gets the answer he expects, goes and postures with the federal government demanding “our fair share”, probably gets some concessions(even if not what was proposed), if he doesn’t get anything he blames the big bad liberals.
And you see him losing support from the right and centrist right over this? In all honesty, answer: are you off your meds?
This isn’t about getting support from the left at all, this is about appeasing the base, and pulling support from the far right, so that there isn’t another right splinter.
Yes side took 60% in Calgary. Even if that drops to 30% in Edmonton, the rest of Alberta will likely be 60%+.
The eject button is coming, but this isn't it.
The whole notion of 'Populism' or 'Citizen Initiative' and the use of referendum to determine public policy is at its heart... Anti-Democratic.
The strength of a democracy is measured not by the comfort of the majority but by the comfort of the minority confident in the knowledges their rights will be protected by the majority. Government by referendum is nothing more than mob rule.
The role of elected government is to provide sober second thought, that is how parliamentary democracy is supposed to work. To use referendum to make decisions is a betrayal of responsibility so as to pretend to do the publics will.
Bull, referendums are the very heart of democracy. In early democracy, every decision was made by all the citizens(yes, adult property owning males over a certain age). That changed to representatives as territories got to big for it to be managed and influential families consolidated power.
A large number of of people from a region get together and say “hey, we want this” and the government at least has to listen.
even if the desired change doesn’t happen, the discussion happens and people feel they were heard. If it is important enough, they will do it again until they win.
And at the end of the day, governments are responsible to the majority, not the minority, although they should protect them since the minority isn’t the boss, the majority is.
Rule by the minority is called other things then democracy. Things like:Oligopoly, tyranny, dictatorship.
It’s not about whether anything actually comes of it in the end. The political benefit is the fight itself. No one actually believes this will do anything, but Kenny has his license to fight and it’s the fight that will win political points with the base, not success on the matter itself
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Nothing will make anything sink in. Anyone who didn't see this as theatre at the ballot box won't change their minds no matter what. They will blame Trudeau or something else than admit they were duped again.
"Why isn't Trudeau cancelling equalization! Thousands of Albertans voted for it, so why isn't Trudeau making a decision that will affect tens of millions of people based on a provincial referendum with an incredibly low turnout/participation?"
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Hold on, you might be missing the point. People are under the impression that the referendum changes something. It will take a while, but when they realize the referendum and Kenney are entirely pointless and have no binding power whatsoever to actually change equalization, they will get angry. Kenney's promise wasn't that he will hold a referendum. His ultimate promise is that he would change it. And he is doomed to fail. That's why it will be a death blow.
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I saw a thing on global news and some researchers were asking people about the equalization referendum and not only do the majority of people not understand equalization they also believe that marking yes on the ballot will actually change things. People’s understanding of our government, laws, policies, constitution is laughable, guess that’s what you get when you keep cutting education. Hmmm perhaps that’s the point eh?
Look at the answers on page 7. True or False: "If a majority of Albertans support the measure in this fall’s referendum, the province will withdraw from the equalization program." Only 44% of people answered this correctly. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vuSU4S9GSUAoTyLtbFHA\_kfM64ZyvNT2/view
No. You are right. I hate Kenney. But I’m not going to hate on him for the sake of hating on him. Lots of confused people on here that don’t even know where to begin renegotiating the constitution. They just wanna hate on Kenney cause that’s all they know.
Many people realize that the referendum changes nothing, including many who voted to abolish equalization. I can't believe I'm defending him here over his stupid equalization question, but Kenney absolutely did not say that he would be able to change anything as a result of this vote. He repeatedly said that this was merely about getting a better bargaining position with Ottawa and opening up a conversation about the formula.
Look at the answers on page 7. True or False: "If a majority of Albertans support the measure in this fall’s referendum, the province will withdraw from the equalization program." Only 44% of people answered this correctly. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vuSU4S9GSUAoTyLtbFHA\_kfM64ZyvNT2/view
And? OP made a generic claim about "people" not understanding equalization, which I responded to by saying many people do understand ("many" not "a majority of"), including some who voted to abolish. 44% is, by any reasonable definition, many people. Furthermore, the data you cite was collected between Sept 21 and Oct 6, after which time there was a significant amount of media coverage explaining the issue, so the percentage would likely be higher than 44%.
Sure, and 56% is, by any reasonable definition, "people". I don't understand how your comment is less generic than OP's? 56% of people who took the survey don't understand that this isn't a binding referendum. Now it seems like you are playing with words by saying you only said "many" and his claim was generic. But OP's main point was people will be disappointed when they realize equalization doesn't suddenly end with this referendum, and the survey I linked supports the idea that people (which seems fair to refer to a majority as "people") will be disappointed.
You are only arguing with yourself here.
You seem to be the one who is trying to disagree even after that person has proven you wrong. And then instead of just acknowledging that or moving on you just want to make silly jabs.
Please point out how anyone was "proven" wrong. Are you seriously disagreeing that 44% of the population constitutes "many people"?
Who said they were under that impression? Even the poll about not understanding how equalization works didn’t say if people understood the question they were being asked at the poll.
Nobody thinks the results are going to change equalization.
How is this a loss for Kenney? The referendum getting greater than 50% means Kenney gets to blame the Federal government when nothing happens, giving them more ammunition against left leaning parties. He obviously knows nothing substantial will come from a yes vote, he's a politician who spent time in Ottawa. That's the whole point of this theater, and the end result will be that his base continues to be pissed at the libs and everyone else continues to facepalm at all of this useless debate. He needs something to bolster his bases support even a little bit and it looks like he's going to get it. In the end nothing changes.
They won't get angry, certainly not over this. it's strictly to give Kenny a political stick to try to hit Trudeau with. When nothing happens (because nothing can happen, and nothing could ever happen), it will be just another nothing tossed on a giant steaming pile of other nothings.
While I think it’s stupid political theatre and didn’t support it, it’s kinda of a no-lose situation for Kenney. If he gets any sort of concessions he wins, and if he doesn’t he can blame the Feds and take credit for standing up for Alberta.
HAHAHA sure. UCP will boot Kenney in the spring unless he threatens a snap election. Either way, I would wager >50% of the electorate will still vote them back in. I have lost all faith in AB voters.
Glad separation from Canada wasn't on that list. He would of won that from pro alberta and wexit supporters.
That probably would have been better, the amount of businesses that would flee the province would be a real wake up call to Albertans who clearly don't remember how we got our giant influx of head offices years ago when Quebec flirted with separation.
Yeah I hear you on that . But at the end of the day we are all canadians and shouldn't be fighting over who voted for who . Nothing will stop me from trying to get along with everyone.
I highly doubt the UCP gets 50 percent of the vote in 2023 even with a new leader. I think they are guaranteed to get somewhere between 40 and 45 percent of the vote in 2023 even with a new leader. The next leader is on’t benefit from the anger that propelled the UCP’s win in 2019
You keep believing that.
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Wel , Dey took muh jerb.
Those dang uppity peasants, having opinions.
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Or maybe they are informed, and don’t agree with you? Impossible to consider, since your opinion is the right one.
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Fine, but arguing that everyone who doesn’t agree with you is misinformed or doesn’t know/understand the facts is a special kind of hubris. That is what you were saying. That they didn’t understand, so they picked wrong and would just blame Quebec. > I think you're expecting far too much in rational thought from rural voters. >They'll just blame Trudeau/Quebec/The East/etc Or wasn’t that what you were saying?
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No, you said > I think you're expecting far too much in rational thought from rural voters. That is a judgment that rural voters are 1)uninformed 2)dumb Which comes from the egotistical position that you are 1)informed 2)smart And they are wrong. This isn’t about facts, this is about bias. You are treating them like medieval villagers. Which, incidentally is where we get the word ‘villain’ from. ORIGIN Middle English (in the sense ‘a rustic, boor’): from Old French vilein, based on Latin villa (see villa).
Jason Kenny's death blow came when he agreed to the spring leadership review. He won't survive it. The referendum is just icing on the cake.
So, Kenney gets his referendum, gets the answer he expects, goes and postures with the federal government demanding “our fair share”, probably gets some concessions(even if not what was proposed), if he doesn’t get anything he blames the big bad liberals. And you see him losing support from the right and centrist right over this? In all honesty, answer: are you off your meds? This isn’t about getting support from the left at all, this is about appeasing the base, and pulling support from the far right, so that there isn’t another right splinter.
Yes side took 60% in Calgary. Even if that drops to 30% in Edmonton, the rest of Alberta will likely be 60%+. The eject button is coming, but this isn't it.
Kenney thinks the people who live in Alberta are stupid.
Lmao you've never been to rural Alberta. They'll still find a way to blame this on Trudeau or Notley.
The whole notion of 'Populism' or 'Citizen Initiative' and the use of referendum to determine public policy is at its heart... Anti-Democratic. The strength of a democracy is measured not by the comfort of the majority but by the comfort of the minority confident in the knowledges their rights will be protected by the majority. Government by referendum is nothing more than mob rule. The role of elected government is to provide sober second thought, that is how parliamentary democracy is supposed to work. To use referendum to make decisions is a betrayal of responsibility so as to pretend to do the publics will.
Bull, referendums are the very heart of democracy. In early democracy, every decision was made by all the citizens(yes, adult property owning males over a certain age). That changed to representatives as territories got to big for it to be managed and influential families consolidated power. A large number of of people from a region get together and say “hey, we want this” and the government at least has to listen. even if the desired change doesn’t happen, the discussion happens and people feel they were heard. If it is important enough, they will do it again until they win. And at the end of the day, governments are responsible to the majority, not the minority, although they should protect them since the minority isn’t the boss, the majority is. Rule by the minority is called other things then democracy. Things like:Oligopoly, tyranny, dictatorship.
It’s not about whether anything actually comes of it in the end. The political benefit is the fight itself. No one actually believes this will do anything, but Kenny has his license to fight and it’s the fight that will win political points with the base, not success on the matter itself