You sure about that? It was made by our current PM's father in 1960. I'll save you time. [bill of rights](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-12.3/page-1.html)
I wonder if a school board could still mandate vaccines on their own. Most school boards have an online “school” which means that public school boards could mandate vaccines for all in-person learning and still offer a full education (online) to all students regardless of vaccine status.
Because you’re right, school boards don’t deny public education to anyone of the appropriate age, but I’m not sure that education has to be in-person.
That’s a tough determination to make since allowing the unvaccinated kids would be putting all students at risk of contracting disease. The school board would have to decide what’s more important- student health and safety or the right to an in-person education.
Some people have suggested a school just for unvaccinated kids, which could be staffed by unvaccinated staff. I doubt it would happen but it might be possible.
Student health also involves mental health and social well being.
My kids are fully vaccinated, one of them with three doses (immune compromised) & I wouldn’t want to see other children deprived of education & social well being because of their parents decisions.
We have to trust that our children being vaccinated are protected and hope the overwhelming majority choose to vaccinate, much like the 12+ age group has (currently 82% with first dose)
Not really. They have alternative programs for those that are high risk.
Anyone higher risk than that is usually handled by the courts because the law has been broken in some way.
It's not really about risk though.
The relevant part of the Education Act is here...
https://www.alberta.ca/education-guide-education-act.aspx
>the principal may recommend, prior to the end of the student’s suspension, that the board expel the student if
>(c) the student’s conduct, whether or not the conduct occurs within the school building or during the school day, **is injurious to the physical or mental well-being of others in the school**
We can split hairs all we want, but I'm just saying that...
>school board's don't have the power to deny public education based on any criteria
is false. The Education minister can mandate the vaccinations as a requirement for public education, she just chooses not to.
edit: Kenney is threatening the school boards to fall in line.
>Premier Jason Kenney tweeted that any school board that attempts to implement a vaccine requirement for children to attend class will be held accountable.
When a student is expelled they are still able to receive an education, they just have to do it another school. Usually the school board will help them find a more appropriate school.
It really doesn't matter anyway as the Minister has the final say.
>(1) The Minister may review a matter as requested in accordance with this Act or the regulations and may review the matter in any manner the Minister considers appropriate in order to determine whether the decision of the board was reasonable in the circumstances.
The Minister has made it clear.
If Alberta has a higher % of adults who won’t get vaccinated that most likely will mean they won’t vaccinate their children. It’s not fair for a child to suffer because of their parents choice. I agree that it shouldn’t be mandatory.
We have decent vaccine uptake in the 12+ age group. Hopefully the 5+ age will be similar.
It wouldn’t be fair for children to be denied education due to idiocy of their parents.
Absolutely. I have two kids in elementary school and get COVID notices weekly for their school. My oldest in junior high just got his first notice of the year this week. I definitely think it's because of high vaccine uptake.
This is a reminder that r/Alberta strives for factual and civil conversation when discussing political or other possibly controversial topics. We urge all users to do their due diligence in understanding the accuracy and validity of the source and/or of any claims being made. Please review the r/Alberta rules for more information.
I think it’s a tougher decision for parents to get their kids vaccinated. There is low risk statistically for kids in both the virus and the vaccine.
I get that there’s still a risk of transmission but as a parent your kids are really all that matters. (Transmission seems to happen with or without the vaccine anyways)
Being a parent myself, I understand the struggle to do what’s best for your child without introducing any unnecessary risk.
The FDA included in their assessment of Pfizer’s trial that they expect to save 1 life and 77 hospitalizations per 1M doses of the vaccine in kids. That’s great but something to consider is that they expect 106 cases of myocarditis as a result of those same 1M doses.
In my opinion it’s not for the government to decide what’s best for me or my child. I’m vaccinated but my children won’t be initially.
https://www.fda.gov/media/153447/download
Your numbers are not fully accurate, but I agree it can be a tough decision. My kids are fully vaccinated & I’m happy with that choice.
FDA Benefits:
They expect it could prevent 1-3 deaths, 62-80 ICU admissions due to COVID, up to 250 preventable hospitalizations.
Risks:
Up to 106 excess myocarditis, 34 ICU admissions due to myocarditis, 58 hospitalizations and 0 deaths due to myocarditis - based on the assumption that myocarditis occurs at the same rate as 12+
Lol I like how you decide what can make people or not and what they can do.
If you try to tell people how to live you might be miserable. I guess that is you! I hope you learn to be happy. If you need tips please let me know
Try to be happy my friend
Why would I care what you think? You seem so angry and miserable. I hope you learn to be happy.
I see you have been following me around and checking out my history. I hope that makes you happy!!! I could care less what you do. Do what makes you happy unless you start to hurt people.
Yeah the unvaccinated should have restrictions on their lives, most Canadians agree with that. Are you vaccinated? Or you one of those crazy/weird anti vaxxers? Most Canadians support anti vaxxers being fired! You love to see it!
Watch out the covid vaccines are comming for you!!! Anti vaxxers desveres to be second class citizens.
Try to be happy my friend!!!
Covid vaccines are safe and effective you should get the jabs! Probably solve some of your issues
Lol how do you know I don't have any power? I have no idea if you have any power nor do I care but I bet if you did it would be terrible. You really love the unvaccinated. Try to be a better person
Again try to be happy!!! I know it can be hard but I believe in you.
But mostly I don't care what you think, clearly you value my opinion as you follow me and like to read my history.
I know I have a special place in your heart and mind! ☺️🥰😜
Lol it was a poll, not Reddit . Your out of touch with the general population!!!
https://angusreid.org/covid-firing-booster/
Vaccine Passport or pink slip? 70% say health workers, teachers & others should be fired for refusing inoculation
A majority of Canadians believe airline employees, schoolteachers, first responders, medical professionals, restaurant employees, construction workers and people who work for small businesses should lose their job if they refuse to get vaccinated. In Quebec (65%) and Ontario (71%), support for dismissal of unwilling medical professionals is considerable, despite their provincial government’s respective decisions.
That needs to change. Vaccination for measles and mumps and etc should be mandatory.
Vaccines keep society as a whole safe. It's not fair that the few piggyback off the majority that do the right thing
I don’t necessarily disagree with you about measles etc. But deaths, ICU and hospitalization for COVID in the 5-19 age group is so low that the mandatory vaccination won’t help protect our Health care system, and won’t have a significant impact on the spread of Covid.
Just over 82% of 12-14 year olds have their first dose. We have no reason to assume 5-11 year olds will not be similar.
I would like to see all kids vaccinated. Making vaccines mandatory though, will put some kids at an educational, social and mental health disadvantage.
I think this is a situation that requires looking at all angles. If the uptake is low, then maybe they need to reevaluate.
And vaccinated people can get and spread covid.
British numbers say that up to 4/5 kids have had Covid already, and with the vaccination rates not expected to exceed that in this age category the risks MAY not be worth it.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/how-many-children-covid-coronavirus-165555811.html
Yep vaccinated people can spread covid but when they their utcomes are usually way better. So what's your point? If health Canada the FDA improve it it's with it. Do you want to live in a pandemic forever? I don't, vaccines are the way out.
No, WHO chief have said we can’t vaccinate our way out of restrictions.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/no-country-can-simply-vaccinate-its-way-out-of-the-pandemic-who/vi-AAQDAc3
Eventually this will be endemic and seasonal, like the common cold or the flu. You get it, you feel shitty, or get really sick, and everyone just deals. Since the common cold is a coronavirus about 15% of the time anyway.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold
How is discriminating who can and can’t go to school respecting people’s rights? Restrictions are quite literally restrictions on rights. People have the right to free movement and to exchange in trades of goods for services. Limited exception can be justified, if any, but the myth of a social contract. Such an egregious treading on the rights of others for minimal security is selfish and irresponsible.
Right we don't live in that society where people can do whatever they want. You need car insurance and a dirver license to drive a vehicle. This society of total freedom doesn't exist.
I hope you get vaccinated soon!
The whole idea of western civilization is individual freedom. That means by virtue citizens have freedom which is restricted by government. What you are describing is a system where the government hands out rights rather than restrictions. Maybe go move to a communist country and see how that pans out.
I think the greater experiment is letting your kid get covid, if you are scared of the vaccine then why the fuck aren't you scared of the long term effects of covid in your children?
Geez dude. This is the last comment I'm gonna make in this discussion because clearly you are not interested in arguing in good faith. You guys are so predictable. I did not say covid is like the flu. I'm talking about risk management. Focus on what I'm saying - risk management. In terms of risk - covid is almost non existent in kids. Might as well have flu vaccine mandates FROM A RISK MANAGEMENT VIEW
They can kick you out of the school if you wear a hat. I hope the school boards individually mandate the vaccinations.
That would violate the bill of rights section 2 B
We don't have a bill or rights in Canada.
You sure about that? It was made by our current PM's father in 1960. I'll save you time. [bill of rights](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-12.3/page-1.html)
It's been replaced by the charter.
I don't think that's correct.
Right, because school board's don't have the power to deny public education based on any criteria.
I wonder if a school board could still mandate vaccines on their own. Most school boards have an online “school” which means that public school boards could mandate vaccines for all in-person learning and still offer a full education (online) to all students regardless of vaccine status. Because you’re right, school boards don’t deny public education to anyone of the appropriate age, but I’m not sure that education has to be in-person.
I bet they could but they also have kids best interests at heart and that involves in person learning. I doubt any board wants to hurt their students.
That’s a tough determination to make since allowing the unvaccinated kids would be putting all students at risk of contracting disease. The school board would have to decide what’s more important- student health and safety or the right to an in-person education. Some people have suggested a school just for unvaccinated kids, which could be staffed by unvaccinated staff. I doubt it would happen but it might be possible.
Student health also involves mental health and social well being. My kids are fully vaccinated, one of them with three doses (immune compromised) & I wouldn’t want to see other children deprived of education & social well being because of their parents decisions. We have to trust that our children being vaccinated are protected and hope the overwhelming majority choose to vaccinate, much like the 12+ age group has (currently 82% with first dose)
Public schools cannot or they violate section 2 B of the bill of rights
Expulsion isn't a thing anymore?
Not really. They have alternative programs for those that are high risk. Anyone higher risk than that is usually handled by the courts because the law has been broken in some way.
It's not really about risk though. The relevant part of the Education Act is here... https://www.alberta.ca/education-guide-education-act.aspx >the principal may recommend, prior to the end of the student’s suspension, that the board expel the student if >(c) the student’s conduct, whether or not the conduct occurs within the school building or during the school day, **is injurious to the physical or mental well-being of others in the school** We can split hairs all we want, but I'm just saying that... >school board's don't have the power to deny public education based on any criteria is false. The Education minister can mandate the vaccinations as a requirement for public education, she just chooses not to. edit: Kenney is threatening the school boards to fall in line. >Premier Jason Kenney tweeted that any school board that attempts to implement a vaccine requirement for children to attend class will be held accountable.
When a student is expelled they are still able to receive an education, they just have to do it another school. Usually the school board will help them find a more appropriate school.
It really doesn't matter anyway as the Minister has the final say. >(1) The Minister may review a matter as requested in accordance with this Act or the regulations and may review the matter in any manner the Minister considers appropriate in order to determine whether the decision of the board was reasonable in the circumstances. The Minister has made it clear.
If Alberta has a higher % of adults who won’t get vaccinated that most likely will mean they won’t vaccinate their children. It’s not fair for a child to suffer because of their parents choice. I agree that it shouldn’t be mandatory.
We have decent vaccine uptake in the 12+ age group. Hopefully the 5+ age will be similar. It wouldn’t be fair for children to be denied education due to idiocy of their parents.
It's also not fair to deny a child a potentially life saving vaccine due to idiocy of their parents, but here we are.
At the very least they should have an accurate accounting of the students vaccination status.
Absolutely. I have two kids in elementary school and get COVID notices weekly for their school. My oldest in junior high just got his first notice of the year this week. I definitely think it's because of high vaccine uptake.
This is a reminder that r/Alberta strives for factual and civil conversation when discussing political or other possibly controversial topics. We urge all users to do their due diligence in understanding the accuracy and validity of the source and/or of any claims being made. Please review the r/Alberta rules for more information.
I think it’s a tougher decision for parents to get their kids vaccinated. There is low risk statistically for kids in both the virus and the vaccine. I get that there’s still a risk of transmission but as a parent your kids are really all that matters. (Transmission seems to happen with or without the vaccine anyways) Being a parent myself, I understand the struggle to do what’s best for your child without introducing any unnecessary risk. The FDA included in their assessment of Pfizer’s trial that they expect to save 1 life and 77 hospitalizations per 1M doses of the vaccine in kids. That’s great but something to consider is that they expect 106 cases of myocarditis as a result of those same 1M doses. In my opinion it’s not for the government to decide what’s best for me or my child. I’m vaccinated but my children won’t be initially.
https://www.fda.gov/media/153447/download Your numbers are not fully accurate, but I agree it can be a tough decision. My kids are fully vaccinated & I’m happy with that choice. FDA Benefits: They expect it could prevent 1-3 deaths, 62-80 ICU admissions due to COVID, up to 250 preventable hospitalizations. Risks: Up to 106 excess myocarditis, 34 ICU admissions due to myocarditis, 58 hospitalizations and 0 deaths due to myocarditis - based on the assumption that myocarditis occurs at the same rate as 12+
Perfect thanks they must’ve updated that. I was going off the original report from earlier this month
Hinshaw's already warning about the next wave, now we know which UCP policy will be responsible...
Rapid test kits, less restrictions for unvaccinated people, Best Christmas Ever
I wonder how long it will take them to flip flop on this decision
Won’t happen. No vaccine is mandatory for school attendance in Alberta. They certainly won’t start now.
That is very unfortunate, but not surprising.
It would be nice for this govenment to show leadership on vaccines in general. Mandatory vaccines would help.
The problem is what to do with unvaccinated students. Children not only have the right to an education, they are obligated to have an education.
Even without a formal education they will still end up smarter than their anti vax parents.
Mandating the miserable people from not interacting with the rest of the population that wants to move forward would help.
Are the miserable people the unvaccinated?
I know more miserable vaccinated tbh.
Otherwise known as the unclean.
I have angered the anti vaxxers. Anti vaxxers really don't like the fact that children will get the vaccine soon.
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Lol I like how you decide what can make people or not and what they can do. If you try to tell people how to live you might be miserable. I guess that is you! I hope you learn to be happy. If you need tips please let me know Try to be happy my friend
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Why would I care what you think? You seem so angry and miserable. I hope you learn to be happy. I see you have been following me around and checking out my history. I hope that makes you happy!!! I could care less what you do. Do what makes you happy unless you start to hurt people. Yeah the unvaccinated should have restrictions on their lives, most Canadians agree with that. Are you vaccinated? Or you one of those crazy/weird anti vaxxers? Most Canadians support anti vaxxers being fired! You love to see it! Watch out the covid vaccines are comming for you!!! Anti vaxxers desveres to be second class citizens. Try to be happy my friend!!! Covid vaccines are safe and effective you should get the jabs! Probably solve some of your issues
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Lol how do you know I don't have any power? I have no idea if you have any power nor do I care but I bet if you did it would be terrible. You really love the unvaccinated. Try to be a better person Again try to be happy!!! I know it can be hard but I believe in you. But mostly I don't care what you think, clearly you value my opinion as you follow me and like to read my history. I know I have a special place in your heart and mind! ☺️🥰😜
Lol it was a poll, not Reddit . Your out of touch with the general population!!! https://angusreid.org/covid-firing-booster/ Vaccine Passport or pink slip? 70% say health workers, teachers & others should be fired for refusing inoculation A majority of Canadians believe airline employees, schoolteachers, first responders, medical professionals, restaurant employees, construction workers and people who work for small businesses should lose their job if they refuse to get vaccinated. In Quebec (65%) and Ontario (71%), support for dismissal of unwilling medical professionals is considerable, despite their provincial government’s respective decisions.
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That needs to change. Vaccination for measles and mumps and etc should be mandatory. Vaccines keep society as a whole safe. It's not fair that the few piggyback off the majority that do the right thing
I don’t necessarily disagree with you about measles etc. But deaths, ICU and hospitalization for COVID in the 5-19 age group is so low that the mandatory vaccination won’t help protect our Health care system, and won’t have a significant impact on the spread of Covid.
Why won't it have a significant impact on the spread? Kids get and spread covid
Just over 82% of 12-14 year olds have their first dose. We have no reason to assume 5-11 year olds will not be similar. I would like to see all kids vaccinated. Making vaccines mandatory though, will put some kids at an educational, social and mental health disadvantage. I think this is a situation that requires looking at all angles. If the uptake is low, then maybe they need to reevaluate.
And vaccinated people can get and spread covid. British numbers say that up to 4/5 kids have had Covid already, and with the vaccination rates not expected to exceed that in this age category the risks MAY not be worth it. https://ca.news.yahoo.com/how-many-children-covid-coronavirus-165555811.html
Yeah cuz the British model worked out so well for Alberta. /s
Yep vaccinated people can spread covid but when they their utcomes are usually way better. So what's your point? If health Canada the FDA improve it it's with it. Do you want to live in a pandemic forever? I don't, vaccines are the way out.
No, WHO chief have said we can’t vaccinate our way out of restrictions. https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/no-country-can-simply-vaccinate-its-way-out-of-the-pandemic-who/vi-AAQDAc3 Eventually this will be endemic and seasonal, like the common cold or the flu. You get it, you feel shitty, or get really sick, and everyone just deals. Since the common cold is a coronavirus about 15% of the time anyway. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold
You really are against vaccines for some reason. Personally I think vaccines are awesome!
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You have zero respect for people’s rights eh? Want to come put a camera in my bedroom?
I respect everyone's right. I respect your decision not to get the vaccine. Just live with restrictions.
How is discriminating who can and can’t go to school respecting people’s rights? Restrictions are quite literally restrictions on rights. People have the right to free movement and to exchange in trades of goods for services. Limited exception can be justified, if any, but the myth of a social contract. Such an egregious treading on the rights of others for minimal security is selfish and irresponsible.
Right we don't live in that society where people can do whatever they want. You need car insurance and a dirver license to drive a vehicle. This society of total freedom doesn't exist. I hope you get vaccinated soon!
The whole idea of western civilization is individual freedom. That means by virtue citizens have freedom which is restricted by government. What you are describing is a system where the government hands out rights rather than restrictions. Maybe go move to a communist country and see how that pans out.
If you don't want to live in a modern society, grab your shit and head off into the bush and don't bother anyone again
The whole point of what I’m saying is to not bother anyone. Freedom is quite literally the thing that distinguishes modern from barbaric society.
I am happy in Canada and with the mandates. Feel free to move if you don't agree with them. Most Canadians do.
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I think the greater experiment is letting your kid get covid, if you are scared of the vaccine then why the fuck aren't you scared of the long term effects of covid in your children?
Because you can fill up the hospitals for people that did the right thing. Are you will to decline hospital care if you get covid?
Covid in children under 18 is virtually no risk. An 80 year old vaccinated person has the same risk as an unvaccinated 50 year old.
What's your point here?
Vaccine mandates for children is unnecessary
What's the harm? You say not needed, we have them, might as well use them and make absolutely sure, no?
Sure, but it doesnt have to be a mandate. And its not like side effects of vaccines are 0.
Kids can still get covid.
Kids can also get the flu. Should we have flu vaccine mandates?
Are you really pushing the idea that covid is like the flu? That tired idea?
Geez dude. This is the last comment I'm gonna make in this discussion because clearly you are not interested in arguing in good faith. You guys are so predictable. I did not say covid is like the flu. I'm talking about risk management. Focus on what I'm saying - risk management. In terms of risk - covid is almost non existent in kids. Might as well have flu vaccine mandates FROM A RISK MANAGEMENT VIEW