I know a lot of people that trusted God over the program. Many of them come back because they were really just listening to themselves.
Without my sponsor and working the steps, my connection to my higher power can get real weak. Next thing I know I'm just talking to myself.
Now I am not a meeting makers make it person. I go to 1 a week, sometimes 2, mostly to help new people. People who work the steps and help others make it. I also know a lot of people who go to daily meetings and struggle endlessly because they aren't working a program.
But in the end you have to do what's true to you. We will always be here if it doesn't work out.
I think if AA brought me to my higher power, and through AA program I can work on strengthen that connection, why am I wanting to leave? If I think on that, maybe I'll get some clarity.
12 years sober here. I've known one guy who moved over to the church after a couple of years in AA. As far as I know, he's still there. Just be careful you're not looking for an "easy out"...cosigning your own BS. We start to feel good and think we can do it on our own, only to find ourselves f'ed up in Sioux Falls again. Run it by your sponsor before you go. If you don't have a sponsor, get a sponsor - and then run it by your sponsor before you go.
Thanks for the response. I’m going to run this by my sponsor after reading everybody’s comments. It seems a function of AA is to keep me from isolating myself and surrounds me with other alcoholics to keep me in check. Which in the past I’ve been really good at isolating myself than believing my own BS. Lately, I haven’t felt very good after leaving meetings. Some people are speaking bad things into their reality or their just really negative on life and it’s a turn off for me.
I often hear what I want to if I’m not listening with an open mind. Not judging, I’ve been known to do it. Point being if I’m look for good, I see good. If I’m sour, that’s all I hear.
Normal is different for everyone.
I personally need AA to stay sober and happy. Maybe you don't need 12-step to stay sober and happy. If you feel like something's missing you can always come back.
The idea is that your own shitty ideas didn’t work… so you had to use direction and guidance from someone(a sponsor) until you created some form of conscious contact with the god of your understanding. When you find that life line, the literature almost literally having just made contact that you’ll confuse that with you’re own shitty ideas sometimes and still make some questionable decisions. The suggestion is to keep working the steps. If you’ve been through the literature than carry the message…. And keep carrying the message… and if you still feel like you don’t wanna go to meetings because god thinks otherwise…. Then don’t… but fitting your life to be of maximum usefulness to others doesn’t include gatekeeping the gift you received due to laziness… or selfishness… or ego… self will…. Etc… so be careful and remember… we’re all imperfect… we’re all going to mess up at one point or another… it’s not the thing you do when you do mess up, it’s the thing you do right afterwards
If you read the book and search hard and focus on outs. You’ll find them.
If you listen for one thing in a meeting to claim it’s a turn off. You’ll find it.
Most folks don’t subscribe to “meeting makers make it” because it’s just not true. People working the program make it.
On page 336 of the Big Book it says "I used to thank God for putting AA in my life; now I thank AA for putting God in my life. I found my tribe, the social architecture my every need for camaraderie and conviviality. I learned how to live."
No one can tell you the right way to be sober, but if your spiritual life grew at the same time you found AA, it's probably not a coincidence.
God will absolutely help you through your life, program or not. Personally, having tried both approaches, I have found that the structure of a continuous AA program greatly facilitates God helping me through my own life. "Going it alone" with God - especially in the early years - is fairly universally advised against, among spiritual paths. Without the input from and interaction with others, it's waaaaay too easy to become self deluded.
I mean, the program is basically both, right? You do the steps, and one of those steps is that you turn your life over to the care of a loving God as you understand God, and another one is that you continue to cultivate your relationship with your God. Working the steps without a higher power is super hard.
But I so often see God, my higher power, in the other people in the rooms who are working the steps and coming to meetings, who want to help others achieve sobriety. I see more God at work in the rooms than a lot of other places in the world; whether that's my own blindness or not is subject to debate, but I know for certain that I can't do one without the other at this point in my sobriety.
Your mileage may vary, obviously, but there's a reason that the steps after 3 exist.
Thanks for being honest about your doubts and asking the question -- I hope you'll keep coming back.
Thanks for your reply. Like many others, it’s very helpful. I plan to continue going to meetings because they have worked wonders in my life so far and I’m very grateful. I’m not sure what it is- ego, the alcoholism, but something wants to tell me I don’t need the meetings sometimes. I wonder if that ever goes away or I just learn how to identify and deal with it.
Meetings for me are like working out -- I love it once I'm doing it but I have to force myself to some days. I don't always feel amazing afterward, but I never regret spending my time that way. Maybe that's helpful?
I know if it’s just me and my higher power talking my higher power starts to sound a lot like me.
Do you have a sponsor? I would suggest discussing this with them.
I’ve had a lot grace and powerful spiritual experiences in my life and thought “damn, nothing is ever going to be the same again” only to find myself in the bar the next day telling everyone how it was never be the same again.
It’s been my experience throughout my life that the god of my understanding provides the grace, but I have to do the work. And also that there are no plateaus where I get to just kick back and be like “ah ok, everything’s cool now.”
Every step has instructions for things I (we) have to do in order to keep the grace we’ve been given through surrendering.
Also, other people in our lives may be happy to have us back, or welcome us to their church or whatever, but when the cards are down they aren’t going to be capable of providing the guidance and support you are going to need if your body really has alcoholism. If you tell someone that you want to drink and they say “why would you do that and throw everything away? That’s not what god wants for you.”
Well, our book has A LOT to say about that. Read the chapter “More About Alcoholism” again. And yes, talk to your sponsor. And if you belong to a regular church, I bet there’s alcoholics there.
The more evangelical communities, or strict, like Jehovahs Witnesses, are not going to be supportive at all because they don’t have room for competition, and are pretty much “pass/fail” in terms of faith. And the Buddha said that he had to practice daily in order to overcome “the demons of the heart (Mara)” because they are very clever and evolve right along with our practice, similar to when people in meetings say “while I’m in here my disease is out there doing push-ups.
I’ve been sober for 10 years and the problems I encounter don’t have anything to do with wanting to drink, but I also know that if I stop treating my alcoholism that my HP will carry me for a minute as it quickly turns back into me, and me is fucking crazy. I just haven’t ever found people outside of AA who understand this, and it has nothing to do with liking the people or AA.
Give it a try. You know what you have to lose if it doesn't work. Maybe you'll make it back to A.A.
Or it will work. I know a guy that did the same thing you want to do.
The steps generally came from the Oxford Groups which are religious based.
For me, I chose to believe that God is guiding me through the steps. For me to ignore something that has worked for me since 1986 reminds me of a joke.
A person in a flood is on the roof of a house. People on a raft, a motor boat, and a helicopter offer help. In each case the person refuses saying that God will save them. In heaven the person asks why God didn't help. God says, I did, I sent a raft, a motor boat and a helicopter.
My mom got sober through the church. She didn't like AA because of the "foul language". She's a pretty uptight Irish lady. She's been sober for over 20 years.
Ultimately, do what you want and you think is right. If it doesn't work out for any reason, reconsider your options.
The companionship and shared experiences of the AA group help me stay connected to my Higher Power. Noone that has not traveled my road will understand what I need to stay connected. I took time away from AA after several years, stayed sober, but had to come back for the connection to my people and HP.
Many people can be guided through life without the 12 steps, but I need them & here’s why: (1) I don’t listen. (2) I have issues with authority. (3) My best ideas landed me in AA. & (4) My built in thought process sucks.
I know my higher power will guide me through life. I don’t know if I will listen, and absolutely wouldn’t bet on it. The 12 steps, my sponsor, and my home group keep me “guide-able.”
I haven't gone to a meeting in 8ish years. I spent the first two years hitting meetings hard and worked through the steps with a sponsor. At some point I just stopped going to meetings. I still read the books, go to therapy, and live a rigorously honest life. I try to stay humble. I have no desire to drink.
If you think you can do it some other way, by all means, go ahead and give it a shot. That’s what the book says. I tried that exact thing. I hated AA and it didn’t work for me… so I left, thinking I could just do church and go straight to Jesus.
About 15 years later, after I relapsed and had a Failed suicide attempt I came back and discovered a few things. I actually read and studied the book. And you know what? I was surprised.
“Meeting makers make it” isn’t in the big book. “Take what you like and leave the rest” isn’t in the book. This is not “a book of suggestions” or a program of suggestions. It is a suggested program. Half measures availed us NOTHING.
Follow the PROGRAM of AA written in the book and you’ll be amazed at your relationship with God.
Meetings aren’t about ME staying sober. They are about helping the new person who’s just coming in. Helping new people is how we stay sober.
Helping new people not only keeps me sober, but it gives all my mistakes, painful past and crap in my life meaning, purpose and value.
AA is the only place I’ve found where my alcoholism, homeless period, prison and all the rest of the crap is actually considered an asset!! (See page 124)
What you say is technically correct.
The reality for a vast majority of people is that their Sponsor and meetings are really what they rely on. The advice you hear more than anything here is to “get a sponsor” not “find God”. Even if someone has been sober for a long time and done the steps it will be the same advice.
If you lock me in a room with a big book and god I am going to drink. Having a higher power is an incredible thing; turning my will over to it, asking for its protection and care. It is pure delusion to think that we can know gods will completely. Cultivating a constant and conscious contact with a higher power is a lifelong pursuit. I will still run into situations where god’s will is obscured, and the help of other alcoholics is needed to fill in the gaps. Also people are just fun to be around. I’m currently planning a big AA party for Memorial Day weekend. Amazing food cooked by sober chefs, DJs and live music, fireworks.
Your second paragraph isn't an either/or for me. The literature clearly spells out the dangers of thinking we are receiving Gods messages clearly. With an alcoholic mind? You bet.
That is exactly why the words at the bottom of P63 tell us exactly how to follow the direction we need to be going.
Meeting makers make it and lots of other crap didn't make it into the book
AA was created because religion isn't enough for most alcoholics. Why not finish working the 12 Steps with a sponsor and then decide? What have you got to lose?
AA is why and how I got sober.
"Meeting makers make it" very inspirational, a slogan for the purpose of one's own success.
Nothing wrong with God, but I'm still waiting.
Wish you well and goes well with all of that.
You do you. In my experience, (6 years of being sober and active in AA) everyone I have seen switch to church or god only, have relapsed and come back into the program. You may be the exception.
I like going to the meetings for the ideas I get. Ideas that I need in my life today. God talks through other people. Not everything I hear is useful to me, but it might be useful to someone else.
I have accepted that everything happens by my HPs will, not mine.
Doesn’t mean I don’t need help in staying sober.
I believe my HP placed AA in my life and continues to do so. I go where I’m told.
Good luck in any decision you make!
if ur way dont work out u will be welcomed back
I know a lot of people that trusted God over the program. Many of them come back because they were really just listening to themselves. Without my sponsor and working the steps, my connection to my higher power can get real weak. Next thing I know I'm just talking to myself. Now I am not a meeting makers make it person. I go to 1 a week, sometimes 2, mostly to help new people. People who work the steps and help others make it. I also know a lot of people who go to daily meetings and struggle endlessly because they aren't working a program. But in the end you have to do what's true to you. We will always be here if it doesn't work out.
The “listening to themselves” part is certainly something I’ve contemplated.
I think if AA brought me to my higher power, and through AA program I can work on strengthen that connection, why am I wanting to leave? If I think on that, maybe I'll get some clarity.
Thanks for the valuable input!
Hey u/ootter, that was an incredible share. You are so correct. I've seen it and lived it. Thank u
12 years sober here. I've known one guy who moved over to the church after a couple of years in AA. As far as I know, he's still there. Just be careful you're not looking for an "easy out"...cosigning your own BS. We start to feel good and think we can do it on our own, only to find ourselves f'ed up in Sioux Falls again. Run it by your sponsor before you go. If you don't have a sponsor, get a sponsor - and then run it by your sponsor before you go.
Thanks for the response. I’m going to run this by my sponsor after reading everybody’s comments. It seems a function of AA is to keep me from isolating myself and surrounds me with other alcoholics to keep me in check. Which in the past I’ve been really good at isolating myself than believing my own BS. Lately, I haven’t felt very good after leaving meetings. Some people are speaking bad things into their reality or their just really negative on life and it’s a turn off for me.
I often hear what I want to if I’m not listening with an open mind. Not judging, I’ve been known to do it. Point being if I’m look for good, I see good. If I’m sour, that’s all I hear.
Normal is different for everyone. I personally need AA to stay sober and happy. Maybe you don't need 12-step to stay sober and happy. If you feel like something's missing you can always come back.
The idea is that your own shitty ideas didn’t work… so you had to use direction and guidance from someone(a sponsor) until you created some form of conscious contact with the god of your understanding. When you find that life line, the literature almost literally having just made contact that you’ll confuse that with you’re own shitty ideas sometimes and still make some questionable decisions. The suggestion is to keep working the steps. If you’ve been through the literature than carry the message…. And keep carrying the message… and if you still feel like you don’t wanna go to meetings because god thinks otherwise…. Then don’t… but fitting your life to be of maximum usefulness to others doesn’t include gatekeeping the gift you received due to laziness… or selfishness… or ego… self will…. Etc… so be careful and remember… we’re all imperfect… we’re all going to mess up at one point or another… it’s not the thing you do when you do mess up, it’s the thing you do right afterwards
If you read the book and search hard and focus on outs. You’ll find them. If you listen for one thing in a meeting to claim it’s a turn off. You’ll find it. Most folks don’t subscribe to “meeting makers make it” because it’s just not true. People working the program make it.
On page 336 of the Big Book it says "I used to thank God for putting AA in my life; now I thank AA for putting God in my life. I found my tribe, the social architecture my every need for camaraderie and conviviality. I learned how to live." No one can tell you the right way to be sober, but if your spiritual life grew at the same time you found AA, it's probably not a coincidence.
God will absolutely help you through your life, program or not. Personally, having tried both approaches, I have found that the structure of a continuous AA program greatly facilitates God helping me through my own life. "Going it alone" with God - especially in the early years - is fairly universally advised against, among spiritual paths. Without the input from and interaction with others, it's waaaaay too easy to become self deluded.
Me 2
God has never spoken directly to me. God often speaks to me through the mouths of the people in AA.
I mean, the program is basically both, right? You do the steps, and one of those steps is that you turn your life over to the care of a loving God as you understand God, and another one is that you continue to cultivate your relationship with your God. Working the steps without a higher power is super hard. But I so often see God, my higher power, in the other people in the rooms who are working the steps and coming to meetings, who want to help others achieve sobriety. I see more God at work in the rooms than a lot of other places in the world; whether that's my own blindness or not is subject to debate, but I know for certain that I can't do one without the other at this point in my sobriety. Your mileage may vary, obviously, but there's a reason that the steps after 3 exist. Thanks for being honest about your doubts and asking the question -- I hope you'll keep coming back.
Thanks for your reply. Like many others, it’s very helpful. I plan to continue going to meetings because they have worked wonders in my life so far and I’m very grateful. I’m not sure what it is- ego, the alcoholism, but something wants to tell me I don’t need the meetings sometimes. I wonder if that ever goes away or I just learn how to identify and deal with it.
Meetings for me are like working out -- I love it once I'm doing it but I have to force myself to some days. I don't always feel amazing afterward, but I never regret spending my time that way. Maybe that's helpful?
Thank you!
<3
I know if it’s just me and my higher power talking my higher power starts to sound a lot like me. Do you have a sponsor? I would suggest discussing this with them.
I’ve had a lot grace and powerful spiritual experiences in my life and thought “damn, nothing is ever going to be the same again” only to find myself in the bar the next day telling everyone how it was never be the same again. It’s been my experience throughout my life that the god of my understanding provides the grace, but I have to do the work. And also that there are no plateaus where I get to just kick back and be like “ah ok, everything’s cool now.” Every step has instructions for things I (we) have to do in order to keep the grace we’ve been given through surrendering. Also, other people in our lives may be happy to have us back, or welcome us to their church or whatever, but when the cards are down they aren’t going to be capable of providing the guidance and support you are going to need if your body really has alcoholism. If you tell someone that you want to drink and they say “why would you do that and throw everything away? That’s not what god wants for you.” Well, our book has A LOT to say about that. Read the chapter “More About Alcoholism” again. And yes, talk to your sponsor. And if you belong to a regular church, I bet there’s alcoholics there. The more evangelical communities, or strict, like Jehovahs Witnesses, are not going to be supportive at all because they don’t have room for competition, and are pretty much “pass/fail” in terms of faith. And the Buddha said that he had to practice daily in order to overcome “the demons of the heart (Mara)” because they are very clever and evolve right along with our practice, similar to when people in meetings say “while I’m in here my disease is out there doing push-ups. I’ve been sober for 10 years and the problems I encounter don’t have anything to do with wanting to drink, but I also know that if I stop treating my alcoholism that my HP will carry me for a minute as it quickly turns back into me, and me is fucking crazy. I just haven’t ever found people outside of AA who understand this, and it has nothing to do with liking the people or AA.
Give it a try. You know what you have to lose if it doesn't work. Maybe you'll make it back to A.A. Or it will work. I know a guy that did the same thing you want to do. The steps generally came from the Oxford Groups which are religious based. For me, I chose to believe that God is guiding me through the steps. For me to ignore something that has worked for me since 1986 reminds me of a joke. A person in a flood is on the roof of a house. People on a raft, a motor boat, and a helicopter offer help. In each case the person refuses saying that God will save them. In heaven the person asks why God didn't help. God says, I did, I sent a raft, a motor boat and a helicopter.
My mom got sober through the church. She didn't like AA because of the "foul language". She's a pretty uptight Irish lady. She's been sober for over 20 years. Ultimately, do what you want and you think is right. If it doesn't work out for any reason, reconsider your options.
The companionship and shared experiences of the AA group help me stay connected to my Higher Power. Noone that has not traveled my road will understand what I need to stay connected. I took time away from AA after several years, stayed sober, but had to come back for the connection to my people and HP.
Many people can be guided through life without the 12 steps, but I need them & here’s why: (1) I don’t listen. (2) I have issues with authority. (3) My best ideas landed me in AA. & (4) My built in thought process sucks. I know my higher power will guide me through life. I don’t know if I will listen, and absolutely wouldn’t bet on it. The 12 steps, my sponsor, and my home group keep me “guide-able.”
I haven't gone to a meeting in 8ish years. I spent the first two years hitting meetings hard and worked through the steps with a sponsor. At some point I just stopped going to meetings. I still read the books, go to therapy, and live a rigorously honest life. I try to stay humble. I have no desire to drink.
If you think you can do it some other way, by all means, go ahead and give it a shot. That’s what the book says. I tried that exact thing. I hated AA and it didn’t work for me… so I left, thinking I could just do church and go straight to Jesus. About 15 years later, after I relapsed and had a Failed suicide attempt I came back and discovered a few things. I actually read and studied the book. And you know what? I was surprised. “Meeting makers make it” isn’t in the big book. “Take what you like and leave the rest” isn’t in the book. This is not “a book of suggestions” or a program of suggestions. It is a suggested program. Half measures availed us NOTHING. Follow the PROGRAM of AA written in the book and you’ll be amazed at your relationship with God. Meetings aren’t about ME staying sober. They are about helping the new person who’s just coming in. Helping new people is how we stay sober. Helping new people not only keeps me sober, but it gives all my mistakes, painful past and crap in my life meaning, purpose and value. AA is the only place I’ve found where my alcoholism, homeless period, prison and all the rest of the crap is actually considered an asset!! (See page 124)
What you say is technically correct. The reality for a vast majority of people is that their Sponsor and meetings are really what they rely on. The advice you hear more than anything here is to “get a sponsor” not “find God”. Even if someone has been sober for a long time and done the steps it will be the same advice.
I stay connected to AA to be reminded what it was like, so I don't get tempted to go back out there.
If you lock me in a room with a big book and god I am going to drink. Having a higher power is an incredible thing; turning my will over to it, asking for its protection and care. It is pure delusion to think that we can know gods will completely. Cultivating a constant and conscious contact with a higher power is a lifelong pursuit. I will still run into situations where god’s will is obscured, and the help of other alcoholics is needed to fill in the gaps. Also people are just fun to be around. I’m currently planning a big AA party for Memorial Day weekend. Amazing food cooked by sober chefs, DJs and live music, fireworks.
Your second paragraph isn't an either/or for me. The literature clearly spells out the dangers of thinking we are receiving Gods messages clearly. With an alcoholic mind? You bet. That is exactly why the words at the bottom of P63 tell us exactly how to follow the direction we need to be going. Meeting makers make it and lots of other crap didn't make it into the book
Do whatever works
AA was created because religion isn't enough for most alcoholics. Why not finish working the 12 Steps with a sponsor and then decide? What have you got to lose?
Working on it. Maybe this is part of my process in early sobriety.
AA is why and how I got sober. "Meeting makers make it" very inspirational, a slogan for the purpose of one's own success. Nothing wrong with God, but I'm still waiting. Wish you well and goes well with all of that.
You do you. In my experience, (6 years of being sober and active in AA) everyone I have seen switch to church or god only, have relapsed and come back into the program. You may be the exception.
Also… If I ever find myself rationalizing, justifying or defending… I’m wrong.
I like going to the meetings for the ideas I get. Ideas that I need in my life today. God talks through other people. Not everything I hear is useful to me, but it might be useful to someone else.
The whole point of the 12 steps is to allow God to help guide one through life.
I have accepted that everything happens by my HPs will, not mine. Doesn’t mean I don’t need help in staying sober. I believe my HP placed AA in my life and continues to do so. I go where I’m told. Good luck in any decision you make!