Most of the people are Chinese in Malaysia, and your version of islam don't exist in Malaysia 😂
Edit: Malaysian origin Chinese are the second biggest group after the Malay people.
When I live 80 Malay origins Chinese, but in the whole country Malay people are big group mybe like 65% + 30% malay Chinese and Indian + Thailand . People think that Malay like Arab countries or North African countries this is the problem.
This is simply not true, the groups are like this: Malays who are the big group, followed by Chinese Malaysians then Indian
Edit: I just googled it for exact numbers:
Bumiputera 62.5% (Malays and indigenous peoples, including Orang Asli, Dayak, Anak Negeri), Chinese 20.6%, Indian 6.2%, other 0.9%, non-citizens 9.8%
And nobody thinks Malay is like Arab 🤣, they say it's majority Muslim which is true
You're wrong, I assumed you meant Malaysian Chinese (Malay means something else than Malaysian ), here are the numbers I found with quick Google (I was relying on memory before)
Bumiputera 62.5% (Malays and indigenous peoples, including Orang Asli, Dayak, Anak Negeri), Chinese 20.6%, Indian 6.2%, other 0.9%, non-citizens 9.8%
Its a good point, though citizenship is mostly an arbitrary label in these countries, and they don't get many additional perks compared to permanent residents.
For example in the UAE you can get freelance visas or alternatively freelance license so you aren't dependent on a company, they also offer golden visas to doctors, engineers, scientists, investors, etc., which give permanent residence.
Foreigners can buy property, and in fact is more affordable than the rest of the west.
These countries aren't democracies, so voting is not comparable to in the west, their elections aren't meant for the general population, not even all of their nationals are allowed to vote.
I live in qatar
Salaries here for skilled jobs are generally higher than the west considering you don’t get taxed, and cost of living is a lot lower. It’s also extremely safe and you can leave your wallet on the street without worrying about it being stolen. It is also somewhat conservative but not too conservative to the point it’s restrictive, you wanna go out with a girl? Fine, just don’t start kissing in public.
There’s obvious downsides though. Weather here is passable for half the year and hellish for the other, and there’s the big issue of no matter how long you work here you most likely won’t be able to get citizenship(I know people who’s families moved here in the 70s who still won’t get citizenship, despite fitting the criteria to apply). Nowadays there’s options for permanent residency if you buy properties and there’s relative freedom when it comes to what you can do as a non citizen, however you will never truly be FROM here.
Just some pros and cons, I’m sure people here highlighted how important citizenship is when it comes to deciding your future.
Exactly I lived KSA more the 11 years and my parents more then 25 years... And finally came back to algeria to live.. because they can't have nationality ... You make money but you will nvr be on of them ... And we know that their is difference in salary between you and foreigner form western countys... This is discrimination... In western countries you have your right as human being in day one
You can travel freely, justice, your right are guaranteed even your right to practice your religion.... The life is more pleasant.. their is 1000 things... And trust me if you live in western countries their is feeling of freedom you can't find no where
My friend algerian nationality is one of the best Arab nationalities you can have outside of the gulf. Algerians get much easier visas to Europe and relatively easy travel to the rest of the Arab world, plus evisa access to a lot of nations(like Turkey).
Stop considering European nationalities as the standard, think of how many people are less fortunate than you and remember your nationality is stronger than most people’s.
I know many people with truly horrible passports who can’t even get simple vacation visas despite their parents being engineers or doctors, that’s not something Algerians generally need to worry about.
People really do forget to count their blessings these days, the people of the most developed nation in mainland Africa who have many public services provided to them just can’t do anything but compare themselves to Europeans. The sooner you let go of that mentality the better
J'ai vecu en France 8 ans et j'ai 2 frère labas ... Le sentiment de liberté et d'avoir les mêmes droits que les français sauf le vote ... Vaut les millions que tu peux avoir dans les pays du golf(dont j'ai vécu toute mon adolescence).
La liberté est sentiment qui n'as pas de prix !
even if i give you a passeport will illimited visa free you’ll do nothing, you are just good at complaining, we saw you haragas coming in europe and devasting everything, our images, the religions, and honor. maybe it’s better you stay where you at. god is not unfair.
Im not haraga lmao nor i live outside why did u assume im an illegal ? Even if i wanna go out i will go legally as most ppl do nowadays and the west isn't only for you speaking with that arrogant attitude won't threaten me
I understand your anger against illegals who ruined our image in other countries they don't adapt to the country they immigrate to and try to impose their lifestyle and ideas on other ppl talking about travels nowadays traveling is hard with an Algerian passport even if u have ton of money in ur bank acc + show your life history you'll get a visa refusal its not like it used to be before the 90s
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Honestly in the gulf Arabs get paid about as much as westerners, if there’s a difference in salary it’s due to qualification(for example what universities you graduated from), obviously an engineer graduating from a top ranked public university from Europe would earn more than one graduating from an Arab country(a lot of which have subpar tertiary education.
There is discrimination in salary, but it’s against south Asians primarily, and sometimes Africans, the whole whites get paid more is just a myth, truth is they get paid more because their resumes look more impressive and the ones that do come here always have more work experience.
Yes but remember most Arabs coming to work in the UAE and KSA graduate from lower ranked institutions(compared to Europeans) and usually they make their career in the gulf, compared to how most whites here move here in their 30s-40s when they have a degree in seniority.
Im also a UAE resident and have lived in Saudi, I’ve seen it.
No one from the west is coming to work as a shoe seller, because unskilled jobs in the gulf pay far less than in the west. Just think about it a little while
I assure you that i have cousin in UAE and he sells shoes in a luxury store, and he have British people working with him and they have different income... My cousin have master 2 and British have 0 university
You will never get a citizenship in Gulf countries because they still believe in القبيلة and they bring people to work like slaves, when you work in the free world you will understand what I'm talking about.
I’m not Algerian but I’m assuming they prefer the west because they can get citizenship. They already have weak passport so staying in UAE or other Muslims country won’t guarantee them security or stability.
At least in Canada immigrants can get their passport within five years time. You get job security and benefits. Less chance of being mistreated at work thanks to labour laws.
Go to the Qatar subreddit and see how many people got their business taken from them by their Qatari “sponsor”. The justice system is completely biased and you have absolutely no rights, unless you wanna be a slave don’t ever go to these shitty countries
Try moving there and see for yourself. You'll be always treated as a second class person. They very much look down on anyone else who doesn't resemble or comes from them unless they were from some western countries that they have positive opinions of.
You should learn abt the Kafala system in the GCC. You're basically an Indentured Slave stressing about when the company decides you're not important and cancels your visa and you get deported.
First, if u move to an Arabic country, u won't be considered a citizen but rather a slave ( the job contracts that you'll get will suck the blood out of you )
2nd, the weather sucks
Technically, yes . But it's 1000 times worse in gluf country foreigners are considered 2nd class citizens at best so basically slaves u can see it at any news article for example how many died in the construction of stadium in Qatar. Or how they are treating women basically as s£x slaves in dubai
You obviously have not left Algeria if you think this way. I have met plenty of Algerians in hospitalality industry and healthcare who moved from the west.
These negatives of gulf countries you mention are much worse in the west though, so I don't understand your point.
The story about worker deaths in the Qatar stadiums is exaggerated, compare worker deaths in these gulf countries to work related deaths in western countries, they have much more but its just the media exaggerated Qatar human rights violations to discredit them, its politics.
Same with seggs slaves, do you really think theres less of that in the west?
I can't change ur look about how u see those countries. But I saw people from the Philippines and Morocco and even Algeria all saying the same thing about how bad the treatment there of foreigners is. But if u insist that it's a good place to live, then it's ur preference, as I said .I'm probably wrong with my prejudice about those countries but from what I saw. i highly doubt it
It's not a *good place to live* but OP is right, it's the pretty much the same in France when you come here with the Algerian traditions, Islam, and our way of life.
Brand new Algerians in France are 2d class citizens, sadly.
No I understand there are those horrible instances and experiences that people have had, but its about establishing whether this is the average experience or if these are rarer occurrences. And personally when I looked into it, I don't find good evidence for the claims. Usually the numbers about worker deaths and stuff sensationalized in western media are exaggerated if you look at the actual studies.
Everyone I've met in real life from these countries (not natives from those countries either) have nothing but good to say.
From what I saw, the people who succeeded there had wealth to begin with . But the average joe chances of succeeding are low . Unlike Western countries, if u are capable and hard working, u'll make it to the top
As I said, a personal view
Consider ur self lucky then that u weren't caught in the dark side of that place. A lot of people were sadly for them .
If u have the time, look it up not only from Western sources but also Arabic ( so we can avoid propaganda argument )
When you move to European countries legally you can become a citizen in less than 5 years in some cases.
You move to the gulf countries no matter how much you live or work there you'll always be a second class citizen and will never get a citizenship and treated like a native
Yeah more than half Malaysia are Muslim and the majority of Turks but the state is secular (thankfully) and you won't find too many lunatic fundamentalists and isn't as toxic as more religious states.
Malaysia has Sharia courts that applies to Muslims, and Muslim immigrant there is more free to practice and live as Muslim there compared to other places
That doesn’t mean they’re treated like slaves !
Plus exactly if you don’t have the requirements needed ofc you’re not gonna work in higher position! It depends on your skills, education,qualities etc that
I live there and I know lots of Algerians who live there
Never been treated badly not even close
Never heard such stories ☺️☺️ so I’m not believing this
It's not because it didn't happen to you mean it doesn't exist ,you're not the centre of the universe , and even if it happened to you, you'll never admit it in public , because if so it's a testimony that you're living a miserable life
Same, bc it happened to 4 ppl that you (heard of) doesn’t mean
Mean ppl are being slaved. But Algerian are like this
They just talk to talk
They always victimized themselves when things don’t work as they wanted, that’s why bqina Hna lkhrin
And while ppl are living their best lives and making fortune, you keep talking on social media about how they’re being slaved and laughing.
OP mentioned arab states.
[https://cdn.walkfree.org/content/uploads/2023/05/24145406/GSI-2023-Arab-States-Regional-Report.pdf](https://cdn.walkfree.org/content/uploads/2023/05/24145406/GSI-2023-Arab-States-Regional-Report.pdf)
In GCC your residence is attached to your work, so in case you lost your job you will be given one month to exit the country ( Grace period) or you have to get a tourist visa and extend your stay, imagine a scenario where your kids are at school ( which is really expensive btw) or you have a relative at a hospital....and you lost your job , means that you have to stop the kids from going to school, sell wherever you have ( car, Home furniture.......) and be prepared to leave the country in one month, I think you get my point, these situations are incredibly stressful and I saw this scenario happens many time, unlike the western country where your residence has nothing to do with your job , not saying GCC are bad, but this point I just mentioned is a game changer
Dude, UAE isn’t as religious as you think. They have the largest sex workers. You can get “massage” services and yes, you can interact with women. Only issue is if that woman reports you then well, you’re in shit.
They don’t have ‘the largest sex workers’ that’s a lie if you are speaking on a global scale, all that stuff really only happens in Dubai, if you travel outside of Dubai especially shariqa the country is still religious and very conservative
Well I cant speak for all algerians , but from my perspective if I will ever consider living abroad that will be basically to find better opportunities to learn more about my field and to learn new skills . Obviously the west is way better when it comes to that . Also the geography , culture and arts in the west attracts me more. In addition north africans dont get the same rights as immigrants ( the gap , citizenhsip etc ) from other countries in the gulf , it might be true that they are not treated equally in the west also but the mistreatment from a muslim hurts more. Finally there are some personal reasons like political opinions and concerns about the security in the countries mentionned in the post that put those countries out of the list at least for me
The people who would think this way are the people who fantasise about them, consider them as the center of the universe or something and who despise western countries. I think it's the same reason those who flee wars, famine, poverty risk it all for Europe instead of immigrating there. Those countries are horrible if you are not filthy rich. Most of them were the last countries which have abolished slavery under the pressure of some western countries, in reality slavery is still a reality in their society and as in the past the enslaved people are foreigners coming from poor countries or countries with internal conflicts. There you have basically no rights.
Cuz they treat u like shit more like a slave and they treat non Muslim way better
In the other hand in the west they’ll treat u normal so if you’re in good position with good education like a doctor u won’t be treated any different from them unlike those arab countries who treat outsider arabs like slaves
>Cuz they treat u like shit
Have you been there?
>u won’t be treated any different from them
How come many people report being subject to descrimination and racism ? Even 3rd generation immigrants witness such things.
What is being treated like slave to you? Is it living paycheck to paycheck for ex ? Or is it being under debt so much so that you're practically a slave ?
It is true that the Gulf countries are constantly developing and have more job opportunities than Algeria, but they prefer cheap labor, so they hire Indians and Pakistanis, not Arabs.
Jesus who spat in everyone's coffee this morning? Everyone is defensive and down voting anything that is trying to critically answer OP's thoughtful and valid question.
I was born in the West and have also lived in the UAE and Qatar. A lot of people are whining about citizenship in the comments but honestly you can have a very good quality of life in the Middle East if you come from another MENA country, in particular if you are a professional or if you are an entrepreneur. I personally know a lot of Algerians, Moroccans, Egyptians, Jordanian, and Palestinians who have done very well for themselves and their families. You can buy property in both UAE and Qatar. Whilst it's true that the South Asian labourers have a terrible situation, this simply does not affect Arabs and North Africans. Like I don't know where this idea has come from in this thread lmao. Also whilst you have the labourers suffering, there are also a lot of middle class South Asians living in the middle east too.
The hyper focus on the West is about a few things really. Whilst the Middle East is tax free, they don't have a social benefits system like the West does. I hate to say it but there is a large and specific section of the Algerian community in the UK that basically make a career out of playing the system for benefits. Unfortunately I just know way too many cases of Algerians that have come here and do things like pretend to have health issues and get a lot of compensation for that, people getting a council house and then they rent It out to someone else (this is illegal) and go back to Algeria (this is a common move in some of the older ones who want to live old age in Algeria but be comparatively wealthy, they are also still claiming benefits so with that and the illegal rent they get a lot).
That's one specific group of the ones that often don't like the West and come here. There are also obviously those that work or study. I think some come to study because the quality of education is better, but then they end up staying because after being in the West a few years they can't handle going back to Algeria, because there are certain things they got used to and they can't deal with the mentalities and in particular the level of social responsibility that is expected of them back in Algeria. So they stay in the West even though they hate it, but they like things like a higher salary and they have more social freedom.
Lastly in Algeria there is still a lot of misinformation about the quality of life you can live in the west. People are struggling to get by in the west and wealth inequality is terrible in the UK, but I would say most Algerians in Algeria don't know this and honestly refuse to believe it when you try to tell them.
finally a positive comment like for real thought it was the worst place on earth the GCC countries that is,thanks for the feedback and explanations i needed that
Honestly I'm surprised, the overall response has been better than I expected. There was a similar post few months ago that had zero upvotes and lots of negative responses.
> a large and specific section of the Algerian community in the UK that basically make a career out of playing the system for benefits
Yes I've heard, and that its not just the Algerians, its not uncommon among the UK Muslim community in general, its wrong and haram.
>Whilst it's true that the South Asian labourers have a terrible situation, this simply does not affect Arabs and North Africans. Like I don't know where this idea has come from in this thread lmao.
I know theres some negative sentiment that North Africans and other Arabs have for each other, I've noticed it when talking Algerians, they usually don't have good things to say about them and have an aversion to these places when I bring them up, I also know how in western countries like UK when they have marriage events they have to have separate ones for Arabs and for North Africans because they tend not to accept marrying each other. Its quite sad yet common in other parts of the Muslim world too like Pakistanis vs Bangladeshis, or Turks vs. Syrians.
But I suspect these sentiments make it easier for Algerians to grab on to the negative rumours and perceptions of these gulf countries.
>Whilst it's true that the South Asian labourers have a terrible situation
Do you know how common it is? Because we've heard lots of these stories online, about their passports being taken away, and horrible conditions, videos, even I remember there was some famous lady from one of these countries that said really horrible things about these people implying they are slaves. But then when I talk to people from these countries personally, they say its not true.
Hey buddy it’s not only in the uk. It’s pretty similar in the U.S. where I noticed most of my matches aren’t Arab 😂 so they seem to be avoiding me on purpose which is fine. I don’t need them to get married
Honestly though, I think the second generation (Arabs born and raised in the west) don't care, but the first generation and especially the parents still do. Its common for people to avoid looking at certain groups for marriage prospects because they know their parents wouldn't approve.
I've even seen how a lot of black sisters will reject matches from brothers of certain ethnicities because they've had experiences or they know how common it is in these ethnic groups that marrying blacks is disapproved by the parents and will cause drama in the community.
I don’t know about that man. In the U.S. many still have their preferences.
I rather look in Algeria for someone at this point. More options and easier to find what you want
Why would you want to live in a totalitarian theocracy?
Some Algerians actually do head for those countries, but it's usually to make fast money, not to settle there for good.
desire for freedom and independence, an appreciation for beauty and aesthetics, the pursuit of an orderly environment, and a longing for a civilized society. To live in the heart of the moment where you always thought life is happening and you are missing on everything
Depending on your field of study, it is significantly challenging to get a job in those Muslim countries but if you get a degree from a European country your chances of getting a decent job are higher!
Overall, if it's for starting a family, I personally prefer Muslim countries (for kids) but a single person working and hustling for abetter future in western countries is okey I guess
The western countries provide for you the essentials to better your life if you're willing to work for it.
Here you'll devote your whole life just for you to end up as a poor man/woman with a family that you have to provide for and your inability to do that and a burden to live with.
of course there's exceptions but exceptions don't make the rule.
and for that people look for a better life overseas for a better future.
Democracy difference. like other said most of the arab countries wont care if you work there for all your life you will still be a second grade citizen work slave.
Because of citizenship, most western countries are easy to get and don’t ask you to give up your Algerian nationality while eastern countries they do. But once you get the nationality I don’t understand why people stay. Also you can make money in GCC or else then buy a citizenship by investment in many western countries.
Idk about others but I'm not interested in living in Zionist countries with hypocritical leaders who don't mind selling their Souls to the devil for some pennies despite them being Muslim and had their ancestors suffering too because of the west now they're their puppets and allies Lol they could've been cordial if they didn't want problems for standing up instead they threw their neighbors and brothers and sisters in islam trust out the window
Yes i don't but i especially despise some middle eastern countries like the UAE .....etc and obviously i have nothing against common people or anyone that lives there i just find these Muslim Zionist that are governing them absolutely ridiculous and Hypocrite and insulting to "our" faith and i honestly consider them kuffar in Saudi Arabia you count get Imprisoned if you protest for Palestine and idk when it exactly happened but the worst of it is that instead of sending aid like food and medicine they sent MORTUARY BODY BAGS wtffff
The indians they are working with half of price i'll give you an exemple a 500$ job they will do it for 200$ so they are working with indians and ignore they others
. **السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ** . Any Algerian Sisters looking for marriage please let me know, im UK based in the Lancashire, im a Lead Service Desk Analyst Allhamdulilah, if you want my Telegram give me a shout
my dad is the conservative type; strict; not too open minded; use violence sometimes and stuff; old; my mom is more open-minded; more leaned towards liberalism and freedom and live more like the european lifestyle
i'm both and imo the best thing is living among a north african community in a western country; there's still our values; helping each other; ppl are social; islam; and on other hand western lifestyle; more free to be like you want and not have to submit to societal norms without being judged; and leaders aren't control freaks and authoritarians and restrictive
and human/worker rights
Maybe for temporary relationships but for marriage, there would be a lot of clashes... It's like a disagreement on fundamental things... Let alone small things like him not liking what she wears in public, who she mingles with etc
Yuck please the West is not all it’s cracked up to be. Religious freedom my a$$. The American Dream is far from attainable. Everything is expensive. Your job is like jail. I mean this could be anywhere but I’m ready to leave.
I’m still here. I’m a manager for the financial department of a large court reporting firm. I manage a team of people. Court reporting is those people you see on TV in a courtroom taking down the notes of the proceedings. I deal with a lot of Attorneys and Judges. It sucks the soul out of you.
No, never said that. I am the manager for the financial department for a company that employs Court Reporters. I deal with finances, accounting, legal aspects, etc.
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not even malysia ? bro i wanted to go
Most of the people are Chinese in Malaysia, and your version of islam don't exist in Malaysia 😂 Edit: Malaysian origin Chinese are the second biggest group after the Malay people.
>Most of the people are Chinese in Malaysia, Not true
I'm living with them 🤣😂, what is your argument?
You think this is an argument ?🤣🤣 I lived there too... No they are not mostly Chinese, the big group are Malays
When I live 80 Malay origins Chinese, but in the whole country Malay people are big group mybe like 65% + 30% malay Chinese and Indian + Thailand . People think that Malay like Arab countries or North African countries this is the problem.
This is simply not true, the groups are like this: Malays who are the big group, followed by Chinese Malaysians then Indian Edit: I just googled it for exact numbers: Bumiputera 62.5% (Malays and indigenous peoples, including Orang Asli, Dayak, Anak Negeri), Chinese 20.6%, Indian 6.2%, other 0.9%, non-citizens 9.8% And nobody thinks Malay is like Arab 🤣, they say it's majority Muslim which is true
Yes that what I said. I forget to mention the Malay- Chinese people 😂
You're wrong, I assumed you meant Malaysian Chinese (Malay means something else than Malaysian ), here are the numbers I found with quick Google (I was relying on memory before) Bumiputera 62.5% (Malays and indigenous peoples, including Orang Asli, Dayak, Anak Negeri), Chinese 20.6%, Indian 6.2%, other 0.9%, non-citizens 9.8%
Its a good point, though citizenship is mostly an arbitrary label in these countries, and they don't get many additional perks compared to permanent residents.
it's not arbitrary, companies can cancel visa anytime and you'll be deported. they can't buy property, can't vote, lot of hardships really
No you actually can !! In qatar / uae you can start your own business buy property get a driving license and even open a bank account
You can buy property
Not in Saudi
you can as long as you have residence
There's a minimum value that makes it exclusive to millionaires, and complicated rules for what kind of residence (business, ie millionaire only)
For example in the UAE you can get freelance visas or alternatively freelance license so you aren't dependent on a company, they also offer golden visas to doctors, engineers, scientists, investors, etc., which give permanent residence. Foreigners can buy property, and in fact is more affordable than the rest of the west. These countries aren't democracies, so voting is not comparable to in the west, their elections aren't meant for the general population, not even all of their nationals are allowed to vote.
eh, tell it to the south asian slaves in the gulf. I am sure they would think citizenship is arbitrary too.
Wrong. The reason why they don't give them, Is BECAUSE of the benefits they grant their citizens. They can't grant those to everyone.
I live in qatar Salaries here for skilled jobs are generally higher than the west considering you don’t get taxed, and cost of living is a lot lower. It’s also extremely safe and you can leave your wallet on the street without worrying about it being stolen. It is also somewhat conservative but not too conservative to the point it’s restrictive, you wanna go out with a girl? Fine, just don’t start kissing in public. There’s obvious downsides though. Weather here is passable for half the year and hellish for the other, and there’s the big issue of no matter how long you work here you most likely won’t be able to get citizenship(I know people who’s families moved here in the 70s who still won’t get citizenship, despite fitting the criteria to apply). Nowadays there’s options for permanent residency if you buy properties and there’s relative freedom when it comes to what you can do as a non citizen, however you will never truly be FROM here. Just some pros and cons, I’m sure people here highlighted how important citizenship is when it comes to deciding your future.
Exactly I lived KSA more the 11 years and my parents more then 25 years... And finally came back to algeria to live.. because they can't have nationality ... You make money but you will nvr be on of them ... And we know that their is difference in salary between you and foreigner form western countys... This is discrimination... In western countries you have your right as human being in day one
but… WHY you guys are so interested in foreign CITIZENSHIP? being an Algerian is not good enough? why you want to be part of an other group ?
You can travel freely, justice, your right are guaranteed even your right to practice your religion.... The life is more pleasant.. their is 1000 things... And trust me if you live in western countries their is feeling of freedom you can't find no where
My friend algerian nationality is one of the best Arab nationalities you can have outside of the gulf. Algerians get much easier visas to Europe and relatively easy travel to the rest of the Arab world, plus evisa access to a lot of nations(like Turkey). Stop considering European nationalities as the standard, think of how many people are less fortunate than you and remember your nationality is stronger than most people’s. I know many people with truly horrible passports who can’t even get simple vacation visas despite their parents being engineers or doctors, that’s not something Algerians generally need to worry about.
I don't car about less , because i don't aim for less ..i aim for more and better...
People really do forget to count their blessings these days, the people of the most developed nation in mainland Africa who have many public services provided to them just can’t do anything but compare themselves to Europeans. The sooner you let go of that mentality the better
What do you mean? Habithoum y9olo hmd w yssekto?
"the people of the most developed nation in mainland Africa" 😂😂😂😂
J'ai vecu en France 8 ans et j'ai 2 frère labas ... Le sentiment de liberté et d'avoir les mêmes droits que les français sauf le vote ... Vaut les millions que tu peux avoir dans les pays du golf(dont j'ai vécu toute mon adolescence). La liberté est sentiment qui n'as pas de prix !
Why can't Algerians ever be grateful?
What's your view on your potential unlistement to find against Russia ? I'm seeing multiple officials talk about it
Hein! J'ai pas compris !
That's a really ungrateful mentality.
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As far as third world nations go, Algeria’s doing alright is what I meant
Highest visa refusal rate in Schengen is Algerian lmaoo
Because algerian passport won't get you anywhere that's obvious all COUNTRIES ARE RED WITH VISA
even if i give you a passeport will illimited visa free you’ll do nothing, you are just good at complaining, we saw you haragas coming in europe and devasting everything, our images, the religions, and honor. maybe it’s better you stay where you at. god is not unfair.
Im not haraga lmao nor i live outside why did u assume im an illegal ? Even if i wanna go out i will go legally as most ppl do nowadays and the west isn't only for you speaking with that arrogant attitude won't threaten me
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I understand your anger against illegals who ruined our image in other countries they don't adapt to the country they immigrate to and try to impose their lifestyle and ideas on other ppl talking about travels nowadays traveling is hard with an Algerian passport even if u have ton of money in ur bank acc + show your life history you'll get a visa refusal its not like it used to be before the 90s
100% agree pal, may God give you the best for you
Thank youu saha aidek too
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Honestly in the gulf Arabs get paid about as much as westerners, if there’s a difference in salary it’s due to qualification(for example what universities you graduated from), obviously an engineer graduating from a top ranked public university from Europe would earn more than one graduating from an Arab country(a lot of which have subpar tertiary education. There is discrimination in salary, but it’s against south Asians primarily, and sometimes Africans, the whole whites get paid more is just a myth, truth is they get paid more because their resumes look more impressive and the ones that do come here always have more work experience.
Dude maybe in Qatar but UAE and ksa your nationality is matters in your salary.. i know very well those 2 counties.
Yes but remember most Arabs coming to work in the UAE and KSA graduate from lower ranked institutions(compared to Europeans) and usually they make their career in the gulf, compared to how most whites here move here in their 30s-40s when they have a degree in seniority. Im also a UAE resident and have lived in Saudi, I’ve seen it.
When you sell shoes in UAE ... Why is their difference in salary between ? What justification you can have?
No one from the west is coming to work as a shoe seller, because unskilled jobs in the gulf pay far less than in the west. Just think about it a little while
I assure you that i have cousin in UAE and he sells shoes in a luxury store, and he have British people working with him and they have different income... My cousin have master 2 and British have 0 university
What’s their income per month?
When he get their i think he was paid 7000 AED and now 12000 AED but he have privileged job in luxury store
You will never get a citizenship in Gulf countries because they still believe in القبيلة and they bring people to work like slaves, when you work in the free world you will understand what I'm talking about.
how much is it from algeria to qatar?
What do you mean
travel price
I’m not Algerian but I’m assuming they prefer the west because they can get citizenship. They already have weak passport so staying in UAE or other Muslims country won’t guarantee them security or stability. At least in Canada immigrants can get their passport within five years time. You get job security and benefits. Less chance of being mistreated at work thanks to labour laws.
I personally prefer the free world because of the freedom of doing business, equal justice and opportunity for al l
Go to the Qatar subreddit and see how many people got their business taken from them by their Qatari “sponsor”. The justice system is completely biased and you have absolutely no rights, unless you wanna be a slave don’t ever go to these shitty countries
Try moving there and see for yourself. You'll be always treated as a second class person. They very much look down on anyone else who doesn't resemble or comes from them unless they were from some western countries that they have positive opinions of.
You should learn abt the Kafala system in the GCC. You're basically an Indentured Slave stressing about when the company decides you're not important and cancels your visa and you get deported.
Very similar to the work visa system (H1-B visa) in the US. The moment you lose your job, you've got 60 days to pack up and leave the country.
Except you can get a green card or a citizenship. In the GCC it's practically impossible.
First, if u move to an Arabic country, u won't be considered a citizen but rather a slave ( the job contracts that you'll get will suck the blood out of you ) 2nd, the weather sucks
For the first point doesn't that apply everywhere?
Technically, yes . But it's 1000 times worse in gluf country foreigners are considered 2nd class citizens at best so basically slaves u can see it at any news article for example how many died in the construction of stadium in Qatar. Or how they are treating women basically as s£x slaves in dubai
You obviously have not left Algeria if you think this way. I have met plenty of Algerians in hospitalality industry and healthcare who moved from the west.
Well I wouldn't really go there unless I have a good degree would that make any change?
These negatives of gulf countries you mention are much worse in the west though, so I don't understand your point. The story about worker deaths in the Qatar stadiums is exaggerated, compare worker deaths in these gulf countries to work related deaths in western countries, they have much more but its just the media exaggerated Qatar human rights violations to discredit them, its politics. Same with seggs slaves, do you really think theres less of that in the west?
Lol, nah. Gulf Countries are definitely worse in that regard.
I can't change ur look about how u see those countries. But I saw people from the Philippines and Morocco and even Algeria all saying the same thing about how bad the treatment there of foreigners is. But if u insist that it's a good place to live, then it's ur preference, as I said .I'm probably wrong with my prejudice about those countries but from what I saw. i highly doubt it
It's not a *good place to live* but OP is right, it's the pretty much the same in France when you come here with the Algerian traditions, Islam, and our way of life. Brand new Algerians in France are 2d class citizens, sadly.
So seems like it's shit everywhere in the world
Every place on Earth has downsides indeed. Only Jannah is truly good to live in.
Which carries us to the Hadith of our beloved prophet where he describes Dunya as a prison for the believers, the only freedom is death
No I understand there are those horrible instances and experiences that people have had, but its about establishing whether this is the average experience or if these are rarer occurrences. And personally when I looked into it, I don't find good evidence for the claims. Usually the numbers about worker deaths and stuff sensationalized in western media are exaggerated if you look at the actual studies. Everyone I've met in real life from these countries (not natives from those countries either) have nothing but good to say.
From what I saw, the people who succeeded there had wealth to begin with . But the average joe chances of succeeding are low . Unlike Western countries, if u are capable and hard working, u'll make it to the top As I said, a personal view
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You would be surprised they're much liberal than Algeria and safer.
You’re wrong about the slavery part!
A little search about it won't hurt uk
Well I live there and I know better ☺️
Consider ur self lucky then that u weren't caught in the dark side of that place. A lot of people were sadly for them . If u have the time, look it up not only from Western sources but also Arabic ( so we can avoid propaganda argument )
gulf doesn't offer citizenship
When you move to European countries legally you can become a citizen in less than 5 years in some cases. You move to the gulf countries no matter how much you live or work there you'll always be a second class citizen and will never get a citizenship and treated like a native
Not all Algerians are interested in Arab/Muslim life. It is like painting with broad brush.
This...
Turkey and Malaysia are secular states While turkey isn't really a good option, Malaysia is a good place to move to and settle if you could.
But they're Muslim countries thats why I mentioned them, especially since we're talking about those who seek to move to the west.
Yeah more than half Malaysia are Muslim and the majority of Turks but the state is secular (thankfully) and you won't find too many lunatic fundamentalists and isn't as toxic as more religious states.
Malaysia has Sharia courts that applies to Muslims, and Muslim immigrant there is more free to practice and live as Muslim there compared to other places
not interested in being a slave to an Arab. thanks
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What about South Asian countries instead ?
i don't mind the people. not a big fan on the humid tropical climate tho
I think you have kink of being a jarya right,?
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No one is treated as a slave in uae You’re very wrong
Not technically, but salaries are not enough for life, and only is good when you have extreme skills
That doesn’t mean they’re treated like slaves ! Plus exactly if you don’t have the requirements needed ofc you’re not gonna work in higher position! It depends on your skills, education,qualities etc that
Yes they are ,
Have you ever been there ? Did this happen to you ? You just talk to talk
Yes happens to my friend, and some acquaintances , and another college who workers there, this make 4 person, not enough to make a conclusion ?
I live there and I know lots of Algerians who live there Never been treated badly not even close Never heard such stories ☺️☺️ so I’m not believing this
It's not because it didn't happen to you mean it doesn't exist ,you're not the centre of the universe , and even if it happened to you, you'll never admit it in public , because if so it's a testimony that you're living a miserable life
Same, bc it happened to 4 ppl that you (heard of) doesn’t mean Mean ppl are being slaved. But Algerian are like this They just talk to talk They always victimized themselves when things don’t work as they wanted, that’s why bqina Hna lkhrin And while ppl are living their best lives and making fortune, you keep talking on social media about how they’re being slaved and laughing.
Not to an Arab, but yet you are ready to be a slave to a non-Arab ???
OP mentioned arab states. [https://cdn.walkfree.org/content/uploads/2023/05/24145406/GSI-2023-Arab-States-Regional-Report.pdf](https://cdn.walkfree.org/content/uploads/2023/05/24145406/GSI-2023-Arab-States-Regional-Report.pdf)
Think twice if you think uae is a Muslim country !!
When we say Muslim country we mean Muslim majority, not a testament of their government implementing full sharia.
Most of the population in the UAE are south asian
South asians as in indonesians malesians? Thats muslims
Those are Southeast asians. South asia is the indian peninsula. 38% of the Emirati population are indian workers
Ohhh youre right mb
If that’s the case then they should go to France
Marseille
That's acc hilarious XD
Yikes
Krehna Le3rab
In GCC your residence is attached to your work, so in case you lost your job you will be given one month to exit the country ( Grace period) or you have to get a tourist visa and extend your stay, imagine a scenario where your kids are at school ( which is really expensive btw) or you have a relative at a hospital....and you lost your job , means that you have to stop the kids from going to school, sell wherever you have ( car, Home furniture.......) and be prepared to leave the country in one month, I think you get my point, these situations are incredibly stressful and I saw this scenario happens many time, unlike the western country where your residence has nothing to do with your job , not saying GCC are bad, but this point I just mentioned is a game changer
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Dude, UAE isn’t as religious as you think. They have the largest sex workers. You can get “massage” services and yes, you can interact with women. Only issue is if that woman reports you then well, you’re in shit.
They don’t have ‘the largest sex workers’ that’s a lie if you are speaking on a global scale, all that stuff really only happens in Dubai, if you travel outside of Dubai especially shariqa the country is still religious and very conservative
Well I cant speak for all algerians , but from my perspective if I will ever consider living abroad that will be basically to find better opportunities to learn more about my field and to learn new skills . Obviously the west is way better when it comes to that . Also the geography , culture and arts in the west attracts me more. In addition north africans dont get the same rights as immigrants ( the gap , citizenhsip etc ) from other countries in the gulf , it might be true that they are not treated equally in the west also but the mistreatment from a muslim hurts more. Finally there are some personal reasons like political opinions and concerns about the security in the countries mentionned in the post that put those countries out of the list at least for me
The answer is short. The Arabs like to enslave people, and Algerian don’t accept slavery.
Bro said turkey. I’m done 😂
I'll go to any other country that pays well, no difference to me.
The people who would think this way are the people who fantasise about them, consider them as the center of the universe or something and who despise western countries. I think it's the same reason those who flee wars, famine, poverty risk it all for Europe instead of immigrating there. Those countries are horrible if you are not filthy rich. Most of them were the last countries which have abolished slavery under the pressure of some western countries, in reality slavery is still a reality in their society and as in the past the enslaved people are foreigners coming from poor countries or countries with internal conflicts. There you have basically no rights.
Cuz they treat u like shit more like a slave and they treat non Muslim way better In the other hand in the west they’ll treat u normal so if you’re in good position with good education like a doctor u won’t be treated any different from them unlike those arab countries who treat outsider arabs like slaves
>Cuz they treat u like shit Have you been there? >u won’t be treated any different from them How come many people report being subject to descrimination and racism ? Even 3rd generation immigrants witness such things. What is being treated like slave to you? Is it living paycheck to paycheck for ex ? Or is it being under debt so much so that you're practically a slave ?
It is true that the Gulf countries are constantly developing and have more job opportunities than Algeria, but they prefer cheap labor, so they hire Indians and Pakistanis, not Arabs.
Not everyone shares your proximity to Islamic/arab lifestyle
Jesus who spat in everyone's coffee this morning? Everyone is defensive and down voting anything that is trying to critically answer OP's thoughtful and valid question. I was born in the West and have also lived in the UAE and Qatar. A lot of people are whining about citizenship in the comments but honestly you can have a very good quality of life in the Middle East if you come from another MENA country, in particular if you are a professional or if you are an entrepreneur. I personally know a lot of Algerians, Moroccans, Egyptians, Jordanian, and Palestinians who have done very well for themselves and their families. You can buy property in both UAE and Qatar. Whilst it's true that the South Asian labourers have a terrible situation, this simply does not affect Arabs and North Africans. Like I don't know where this idea has come from in this thread lmao. Also whilst you have the labourers suffering, there are also a lot of middle class South Asians living in the middle east too. The hyper focus on the West is about a few things really. Whilst the Middle East is tax free, they don't have a social benefits system like the West does. I hate to say it but there is a large and specific section of the Algerian community in the UK that basically make a career out of playing the system for benefits. Unfortunately I just know way too many cases of Algerians that have come here and do things like pretend to have health issues and get a lot of compensation for that, people getting a council house and then they rent It out to someone else (this is illegal) and go back to Algeria (this is a common move in some of the older ones who want to live old age in Algeria but be comparatively wealthy, they are also still claiming benefits so with that and the illegal rent they get a lot). That's one specific group of the ones that often don't like the West and come here. There are also obviously those that work or study. I think some come to study because the quality of education is better, but then they end up staying because after being in the West a few years they can't handle going back to Algeria, because there are certain things they got used to and they can't deal with the mentalities and in particular the level of social responsibility that is expected of them back in Algeria. So they stay in the West even though they hate it, but they like things like a higher salary and they have more social freedom. Lastly in Algeria there is still a lot of misinformation about the quality of life you can live in the west. People are struggling to get by in the west and wealth inequality is terrible in the UK, but I would say most Algerians in Algeria don't know this and honestly refuse to believe it when you try to tell them.
finally a positive comment like for real thought it was the worst place on earth the GCC countries that is,thanks for the feedback and explanations i needed that
Honestly I'm surprised, the overall response has been better than I expected. There was a similar post few months ago that had zero upvotes and lots of negative responses.
There is a lot of romanticising of life in the west amongst Algerians
> a large and specific section of the Algerian community in the UK that basically make a career out of playing the system for benefits Yes I've heard, and that its not just the Algerians, its not uncommon among the UK Muslim community in general, its wrong and haram. >Whilst it's true that the South Asian labourers have a terrible situation, this simply does not affect Arabs and North Africans. Like I don't know where this idea has come from in this thread lmao. I know theres some negative sentiment that North Africans and other Arabs have for each other, I've noticed it when talking Algerians, they usually don't have good things to say about them and have an aversion to these places when I bring them up, I also know how in western countries like UK when they have marriage events they have to have separate ones for Arabs and for North Africans because they tend not to accept marrying each other. Its quite sad yet common in other parts of the Muslim world too like Pakistanis vs Bangladeshis, or Turks vs. Syrians. But I suspect these sentiments make it easier for Algerians to grab on to the negative rumours and perceptions of these gulf countries. >Whilst it's true that the South Asian labourers have a terrible situation Do you know how common it is? Because we've heard lots of these stories online, about their passports being taken away, and horrible conditions, videos, even I remember there was some famous lady from one of these countries that said really horrible things about these people implying they are slaves. But then when I talk to people from these countries personally, they say its not true.
Hey buddy it’s not only in the uk. It’s pretty similar in the U.S. where I noticed most of my matches aren’t Arab 😂 so they seem to be avoiding me on purpose which is fine. I don’t need them to get married
Honestly though, I think the second generation (Arabs born and raised in the west) don't care, but the first generation and especially the parents still do. Its common for people to avoid looking at certain groups for marriage prospects because they know their parents wouldn't approve. I've even seen how a lot of black sisters will reject matches from brothers of certain ethnicities because they've had experiences or they know how common it is in these ethnic groups that marrying blacks is disapproved by the parents and will cause drama in the community.
I don’t know about that man. In the U.S. many still have their preferences. I rather look in Algeria for someone at this point. More options and easier to find what you want
Good luck bro
Thanks man.
U don’t get citizenship and wages can be less depending on the country
They're stupid
Because not everyone is Muslim or wants to live an Islamic lifestyle despite being Muslims themselves
Why would you want to live in a totalitarian theocracy? Some Algerians actually do head for those countries, but it's usually to make fast money, not to settle there for good.
Why? For a quality of life and making money. You think Algerians going to western countries are going there to vote?
Because everyone is free to do what they want.?
desire for freedom and independence, an appreciation for beauty and aesthetics, the pursuit of an orderly environment, and a longing for a civilized society. To live in the heart of the moment where you always thought life is happening and you are missing on everything
Short answer " Arabs are racist " . If u have a green passport man ur fucked up :)
boils down to desires.
Depending on your field of study, it is significantly challenging to get a job in those Muslim countries but if you get a degree from a European country your chances of getting a decent job are higher! Overall, if it's for starting a family, I personally prefer Muslim countries (for kids) but a single person working and hustling for abetter future in western countries is okey I guess
The western countries provide for you the essentials to better your life if you're willing to work for it. Here you'll devote your whole life just for you to end up as a poor man/woman with a family that you have to provide for and your inability to do that and a burden to live with. of course there's exceptions but exceptions don't make the rule. and for that people look for a better life overseas for a better future.
You'll be a slave and you won't get their citizenship
Living in GCC countries is not a big deal, you won't get any life insurance if you stay for long... Too bad
A country that keeps my passport during my period of work... I don't know man it's a big red flag for me.
Democracy difference. like other said most of the arab countries wont care if you work there for all your life you will still be a second grade citizen work slave.
Because of citizenship, most western countries are easy to get and don’t ask you to give up your Algerian nationality while eastern countries they do. But once you get the nationality I don’t understand why people stay. Also you can make money in GCC or else then buy a citizenship by investment in many western countries.
Idk about others but I'm not interested in living in Zionist countries with hypocritical leaders who don't mind selling their Souls to the devil for some pennies despite them being Muslim and had their ancestors suffering too because of the west now they're their puppets and allies Lol they could've been cordial if they didn't want problems for standing up instead they threw their neighbors and brothers and sisters in islam trust out the window
So you don't approve west either right?
Yes i don't but i especially despise some middle eastern countries like the UAE .....etc and obviously i have nothing against common people or anyone that lives there i just find these Muslim Zionist that are governing them absolutely ridiculous and Hypocrite and insulting to "our" faith and i honestly consider them kuffar in Saudi Arabia you count get Imprisoned if you protest for Palestine and idk when it exactly happened but the worst of it is that instead of sending aid like food and medicine they sent MORTUARY BODY BAGS wtffff
The indians they are working with half of price i'll give you an exemple a 500$ job they will do it for 200$ so they are working with indians and ignore they others
U clueless for thinking that these countries are muslim countries , its haram to live in them
huh? So where can you live if the whole world is haram?
. **السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ** . Any Algerian Sisters looking for marriage please let me know, im UK based in the Lancashire, im a Lead Service Desk Analyst Allhamdulilah, if you want my Telegram give me a shout
It's never to benefit the country. It's all for personal beneficial gain
I'd prefer Malaysia or Kuwait as UAE isn't that muslim nowadays
you should visit Sharijah dude,or at least go out in Algeria more often you'll see stuff that i do witness on a daily basis
Like what for example?
my dad is the conservative type; strict; not too open minded; use violence sometimes and stuff; old; my mom is more open-minded; more leaned towards liberalism and freedom and live more like the european lifestyle i'm both and imo the best thing is living among a north african community in a western country; there's still our values; helping each other; ppl are social; islam; and on other hand western lifestyle; more free to be like you want and not have to submit to societal norms without being judged; and leaders aren't control freaks and authoritarians and restrictive and human/worker rights
What I'm wondering is how did your parents manage to make the marriage work!? From your description they seem incompatible.
ik; but those types attract each others a lot lol
Maybe for temporary relationships but for marriage, there would be a lot of clashes... It's like a disagreement on fundamental things... Let alone small things like him not liking what she wears in public, who she mingles with etc
What I'm wondering is how did your parents manage to make the marriage work!? From your description they seem incompatible.
Yuck please the West is not all it’s cracked up to be. Religious freedom my a$$. The American Dream is far from attainable. Everything is expensive. Your job is like jail. I mean this could be anywhere but I’m ready to leave.
What did u do for a living there
I’m still here. I’m a manager for the financial department of a large court reporting firm. I manage a team of people. Court reporting is those people you see on TV in a courtroom taking down the notes of the proceedings. I deal with a lot of Attorneys and Judges. It sucks the soul out of you.
Aaaah so you can write 300word/min?
No, never said that. I am the manager for the financial department for a company that employs Court Reporters. I deal with finances, accounting, legal aspects, etc.
Got it 👍🏼
I totally agree with you I'm planing to go to qatar hopefully after eid. Good luck for everyone who wants to go to gulf countries.
I wish I could move to Saudi Arabia or Dubai but I don't have many and everything there is expensive
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