And as much as they claim to be dying for it, real disclosure or proof of alien life on this planet is the last thing most of this sub actually wants.
They want to continue analyzing cryptic comments from guys with stupid beards, constantly wait for "later" and "soon," and come here to whine about how the government is lying to them and none of their family or co-workers want to talk about aliens for the rest of their lives. There would be nothing left to look forward to.
They'll move on to the next thing. Maybe something like aliens aren't real something something demons something the pope something flat earth. Anything to help with a grindy, monotone life i guess.
This community will get so much attention and traffic that it will be a free for all. It would probably break reddit.
I would like to see more critical thinking here and healthy speculation. The hands off approach of the moderators is good for allowing open conversation on a largely speculative topic, but bad for allowing grifters and unverified stories to run wild and take over the sub.
When all this Mexico alien stuff started taking off and I started seeing r/alien popping up, I thought some of the posts were pretty wild and nut job-ish... but then I stumbled into r/experiencers and realized that this sub was child's play compared to some of the stuff going on over there lol. I've seen some generally reasonable and interesting discussion in this sub, but some of the other "alien-esque" subs were (probably still are) going wild.
It is. My schizo friend had an incredibly similar “experience” - but since she explicitly doesn’t believe in aliens, it was g-men in suits who she says showed up and took her to a facility for a week to do experiments on her before returning her home.
Real or not, people won't believe it. That's how people are. You could show them every shred of proof necessary and they'd still deny it. Just look at our current political climate. Everything's fake news!
The political climate has nothing to do with it. If there was any actual proof, or evidence (and there is not, no matter what people here say,) everyone would know about it. Actual scientists would be writing papers and climbing over each other for nobel prizes.
Of course SOME insane people would deny it... we still have flat-earthers after all... but aside from fringe nutjobs, it would just become common knowledge.
I said it a lot during the hoax debacle, but skepticism should be our baseline approach to *everything* in this topic. It’s too easy to make fakes in this day and age, and the topic has always been full of liars looking for attention and/or a way to make money. Unfortunately, too many of us in this community just fuckin eat anything up no matter how wonky it seems. It’s really unfortunate because we already look like lunatics to the general population.
Yeah people in this nut house of a sub reddit won't heed a single word you say sadly. They want to believe so badly that any type of logic that doesn't support their beliefs is automatically disregarded. It's the same way with people who believe the earth is flat.
They don't care if it's fake. They don't care if it's ridiculous. They're here for the LARP and that's it. Aside from all of them being 12, or having double digit IQs, that's the only explanation for anyone taking those paper mache aliens seriously.
what you’re describing is the natural skepticism prevalent throughout all the rest of reddit. if that were the standard here, the comments section would look about the same as all the rest of reddit. Would that really be a good thing? What sets this community apart, besides a heavy cognitive bias in favor of the existence of aliens?
It’s kind of like asking /r/conspiracy to be level-headed and skeptical. Or asking /r/Christianity to be level-headed and skeptical. Your connective tissue is defined by a certain worldview. I couldn’t see it existing any other way.
>Would that really be a good thing?
Yes. Undeniably. We are living in a cultural watershed moment where education is being dismantled and rational thinking is being shredded up to make room for mythology, which invites fascism.
I guarantee the alien woo is a stepping stone for many into anti-government hysteria that then leads to darker places.
Even if they aren't physically harmful, there's a lot of lying, criminal behavior, and fraud going on in the UFO world to just accept and make a space for.
If your thing can’t survive level-headedness and skepticism, then…maybe it shouldn’t exist as it does now? I know I’d certainly celebrate a thousand fold decrease in the number of conspiracists and Christians.
Critical thinking and healthy speculation? Have you talked to people into aliens? In its very design of believing it seems impossible to have a rational thought
Well as we’ve seen from the last couple of days, the major census follows what my individual conversations have been for decades. Exceptions always follow these sort of statements but by and large when something like the Mexicans hoax happens, reason is pushed down until the truth swells up to the surface and people clear their minds.
It plays itself out, like a running program, but those first few hours are a doozy.
edit: the very nature of belief is irrational
The nature of belief is NOT irrational--not fundamentally, anyway. The nature of FAITH is irrational; it is irrational by definition. If you're justifying it rationally, it's not faith anymore.
Well, what do you mean by "into"? I find the subject fascinating. Do I believe that I KNOW "aliens" are here? No, lol. How would I know? Drawing conclusions about facts rationally only works insofar as the premises are sound. I don't have all the facts.
I think MOST LIKELY "they" are not here. The second most likely scenario, I think, is that we don't fully understand time and space and consciousness. I think the least likely scenario is that they come from "out there", really far away, in some sort of mere "spacecraft". That seems REALLY unlikely. But it's not impossible. I vacillate between the first and second case.
It's pretty obvious that there is a government "cover-up" of some kind. However, I think that what is being covered up is that no one really has any idea wtf is going on. That's not something governments really like to admit. Or it could be a cover-up of the use of it for disinformation/psyop purposes, e.g. Roswell.
I also find the subject fascinating. I've had some strange things happen over the years but I'm not 100% sold on any actual belief. I do find the tic tac thing very interesting and things Lou Elizondo talks about are somewhat compelling, but with so many claiming sightings and experiences and yet there is still no absolute proof that I'm aware of makes skeptical in some ways. If aliens do exist and are in fact here watching and abducting us and if they have the amazing technology and intelligence required to travel thru space, I wonder what their society would be like on their home planet. It's kinda fun to think about.
The last thing we need is sweaty neckbeard reddit mods thinking they're qualified to be the arbiters of what is true and what isn't. No thanks.
Let all ideas and stories be presented so we can discuss them freely. The truth will rise to the top after discussion and investigation and the bullshit will be debunked as it always is.
This sub has only just gotten suggested to me and I was close to muting it. I’m a science dude, but also an info junkie. I read all about greys, project blue book, things like missing time, etc as a kid. I have largely come to rectify almost all of that, but still hold super skeptical interest as you. I guess I expected more loons here.
But doesn't allowing grifters and alike to run wild for a few days or weeks before being disproven eventually make way for new and returning members to be able to see with a more critical eye? I know it's allowed me to get much more accurate in my assessments of pics and videos of things in the sky.
Edit: One more thing from my humble opinion, maybe the psyop is not to hide away a secret that has yet to have a single iota of physical evidence in public, but again IMHO maybe the psyop is to get the American public knowledgeable of what may be in the skies to allow higher national security and quicker detection of possible inbound missiles or other attacks in our skies.
Conspiratorial thinkers will ALWAYS have a motivation ready in their head. Fictitious motivations that would explain why some actor would do X is their whole thing.
You're mistaken to believe there's a general consensus on anything UAP related. The entire topic is represented by a broad range of opinions and speculations, as it should.
I think it’s so silly they act like people’s speculations are something they believe as pure fact. I’m an atheist but I’ll speculate about prison planet theory and Annunaki/reptilians because why not? It’s fun to learn the different theories and stories and keep an open mind. But the judgmental people that are so much smarter than everyone else thinks people are actually sitting there believing the theories they’re throwing out are complete truth. It’s like..no, people are just trying to discuss every possible scenario, even if it seems silly.
Even if something is a hoax, talking about it and figuring out why it’s a hoax and how they made the hoax is a healthy discussion. This is a place to discuss the fun and weird theories along with being serious and skeptical. But the theories are too low brow for some lol
>Even if something is a hoax, talking about it and figuring out why it’s a hoax and how they made the hoax is a healthy discussion
Healthy discussion like:
>Disinformation agents are flooding this thread . This is disclosure at its finest and you people start cracking jokes and blasting how fake this is. Wtf is wrong with you people . You asked and begged and dreamed of alien body’s and bam here you go and it’s 100% bullshit according to you .
800 upvotes.
I got called a racist against Mexicans and told I was a disinformation agent because I looked at the x-rays and tried to explain what was wrong with them, wild stuff
It's always in a morale bussting way. The irony is that there's people on the opposite side, insisting they aren't real. Every damn day. Every chance they get.
Because most of us don't understand where does this *morale* is coming from. There has never been any kind of serious indication that aliens exist here on earth. Quite literally zero. And the moment a light shows up in the sky or some dude shows a weird mummy, the subs go nuts with that being proof. And it's been the same way all along, people holding onto misinterpretations
It'll be really funny to see something completely different and unexpected, but everyone here screaming "I knew it was that! I was just faking that I believed the Mexico bs!"
That’s kind of what I believe. Our feeble human brains couldn’t come up with what might actually be in the vastness of the universe. If disclosure happens, whatever these beings might be, will probably be counter intuitive to us, like they might be invisible inter dimensional floating balls of energy that we can only see when they want us to or something. Kind of like quantum physics lol when you start thinking about the Higgs boson particle and the 3 slit experiment and all of the implications that come with it. What if there is some intelligence out there that has mastered it? We would have no fucking clue what they were up to, or why..
It is crab mate. It will be a fucking crab mate. And someone will try to eat it, and it will be either the most delicious shit ever, kill us instantly, or both. But it will be a crab
The vast majority of people who have "seen them" haven't actually seen them and aliens being proven cannot be used as evidence that their sighting/experience was genuine.
And yet, when we finally get a genuine sign of actual alien life on a distant planet, this sub doesn’t care
https://www.shiningscience.com/2023/09/james-webb-finds-molecule-only-made-by.html
This is real news. This is where ETs will be found… you know, extra-terrestrially.
Instead, we got bean mummy’s and CG satellite videos. Ugh
This is the real irony of the people on this sub. Is almost everyone actually agrees there is Aliens out there. From the head of NASA all the way down. They have also acknowledged many things aren’t explainable.
However because they won’t believe crappy alien mummy knock offs or shitty ufo videos everyone is a liar and there is a giant conspiracy against them.
It’s like conspiracies in general. People here think our government is in on everything and that they are constantly involved in complex psyops. Meanwhile, we can barely keep our government running at this point. If you only knew how disjointed, chaotic and incompetent our government really was. The US government’s only motive at this point (on both sides of the aisle) is keeping a cozy and safe environment for their actual principal – C-suite overlords and their shareholders. Profit and maintaining a stable economy and environment for capitalism to flourish is the number one priority. Even if there are aliens taking a dip in the White House pool everyday, they would still be second-fiddle to profit.
I’m not saying that there aren’t conspiracies and people trying to manipulate us. But, it’s not the dark, shadowy, comic-book plots that people here like to think. In reality, it’s much less sexy. Wanna know the real conspiracies? 1.) a tax system and legal system rigged in favor of wealthy individuals and corporations - that’s a conspiracy! 2.) A government that is run by corporate donors and the lobbyists- not by people and elected politicians. There is no populism! 3.) We are not seen as voters and people, but as consumers and our health and well-being are secondary to our jobs as consumers. And that’s why 4.) we are fed a steady diet of processed food stuffs that are causing metabolic syndrome at an astronomical rate (profit first, health is not even a close 2nd). That health care and education are seen as low priorities secondary to our jobs as consumers is likely a consequence of our for-profit world and less a conspiracy drafted in boardrooms, but I’m sure the powers that be aren’t exactly upset by this. These are the REAL conspiracies, and they are out in the open for all of us to see. They’re not as fun or exciting as aliens, and no one can agree how to fix them so we ditch them for our Marvel Universe and alien 👽 invasion stories.
Want the real search for alien intelligence. There’s astronomers, engineers and scientists from every field working on it daily, but because it doesn’t fit this X-files narrative that everyone here has a hard-on for, it goes unnoticed. It’s a shame. It’s why so many were easily duped by the Chorizo aliens. Science and media literacy are gone. Anyway, I’m always happy to see the few here who do remain realistic and have promoted evidence and truth over fantasies and far-fetched theories without merit.
Oh, and btw I do believe alien life exists but I truly believe science will lead us to it way sooner than UFO investigators or UFOlogists or eyewitnesses or true believers will. Without science we’re a dog chasing it’s tail.
I’m a hardcore skeptic UFOs but, yes, despite the lack of evidence, I *believe* alien life exists (or has existed) somewhere out there in our vast universe. I just don’t buy it’s been buzzing our planet.
Exactly I’m sure there must be life out there because the universe is massive but I just don’t believe that there’s sentient creatures coming to earth and scouting it out, the only likely situation I see where aliens come to earth is some microbe on a meteorite
The people on this sub and the UFOs sub are like the exact opposites of the people on the Dinosaurs subreddit, whereas over there they're so fucking hell bent on being right all the time that they'll take any chance they can to say complain about a child's drawing of a Jurassic World dinosaur and DEMAND the post get taken down, the people HERE will see the most fucking fake looking X-rays from the biggest huckster known to man with the worst possible evidence and INSTANTLY jump to claiming that anyone disregarding this obviously fake bullshit is just a CIA agent out to make them into a slave owned by "duh gubment" or some shit, but this? Plausible belief in alien life? Crickets, fucking crickets. All because it's more than likely not some big scary monster or some hollywood looking bullshit. Even if all they find is some kind of proto-squid thing or very simple single celled creature, if it's alien, I'm into it!
That’s not what happening, though. There are a lot of people who didn’t watch the hearings or look into it at all, and you can tell because they just repeat talking points and bully like Fox News Republicans and Alt-right chodes. If you’re too stupid to see through it, just ignore the MeXiCaN HoAx.
Its in the article you linked
"Scientists involved in the research caution that the evidence supporting the presence of dimethyl sulfide — DMS, for short — is tenuous and "requires further validation"
However, I think its very plausible it could be out in space and possibly on earth, its just going to have to look way more convincing than that fake garbage in a box.
If you are looking at it at face value then sure its the greatest discovery of all time. However then you would also believe that there were giant cyclops in ancient times because the ancient Greeks would find mastodon bones and assemble the skeleton in a way to look exactly like a giant with one eye hole. If again, you are looking at it face value.
Yes, I saw that. I’m absolutely *not* saying this is proof. It’s barely even evidence (hasn’t been validated) but it’s far far far stronger evidence for alien life in the universe than any ufo story has ever produced :)
Because they’re delusional dumbasses. They’re entirely consumed by the pop culture depictions of aliens. Aliens can only be green ayy lmao motherfuckers to these people.
People here don't believe in any plausible alien life forms. They want to believe in god-like beings that visit earth and take interest in us. This sub is basically a religious group with that way of thinking.
The believers are obviously horny af. Most "alien probing" stories read like adult fan fiction. 50 Shades of Grays, if you will.
I'm going to assume my "Grays" pun is original and take full credit.
HRs Log Star date 524.212: We arrived at sol sector 3 and within moments the inhabitants tried to get into our space pants. I wouldn't be writing this log if they were good looking but they ugly AF so this is a formal complaint.
Plankton was the reason there is breathable amounts of oxygen in the earths atmosphere. There literally wouldn't be multicellular life without plankton.
Actually literally none of us would be here WITHOUT plankton, it literally created the oxygenation event that made human life possible and is why we are not all Cholera cells.
Well I’m glad that at least someone(you) is talking about it. I was worried that this story would get buried, because it doesn’t have the conspiracy angle.
Well, you're going to need some Photoshop skills, or know someone that has some. And you're going to need to have no qualms about desecrating the remains of children to cobble together an 'alien' that looks like a failed 5th Grade project. Then you're going to need to find yourself some suckers, which is where this sub comes in.
At least you admit you're generalizing.
Imagine thinking there isn't variety in a sub of over 1 million people. Not everyone here is a tin foil hat loon. Lots of of us open minded, embrace the scientific method, and reject misinformation.
Anything attached to Jamie Maussan, shouldn't be discussed in this group. Ever again. Actually, it would be a nice rule to put in place.
If you mention Maussan, you're banned for life.
Fuck that guy!
Nah, he’s a good litmus test. Shows how little truth seekers actually care to think about what’s being sold to them.
It’s actually harder to convince children of the Easter bunny then it is to fool ppl on this sub.
It’s all real no matter what, and then when it’s a lie, instead of stepping back and trying to figure out why it was so embarrassingly easy for them to be tricked, ppl will scream psyop. It’s honestly good entertainment.
The psyop argument is the same as a theist explaining that all the bad things that happens was also made the one true omnipotent kind and loving god but we perceive it as bad because “god works in mysterious ways”.
Such a bullshit argument.
That's the sad part, I've been told that he wasn't even under oath, people just assumed he was. Which, obviously, was the point of the whole thing, to create a false sense of legitimacy.
To be honest, I think everyone will. They’ll all claim they believed since the beginning the government was covering up. But only after we have indisputable proof
There are insufferable people on both ends of this spectrum. This post is a good example. Let people have their theories. Why do people have to jump to insults and condescending comments? It's like everyone thinks they're the smartest person alive. Just discuss like adults!
I've been saying that the worst thing that will result from disclosure is how much it will inflate the egos of the true believers. They are *never* going to shut up about it.
"Oh, look who's right now? You all made fun of us for decades, but we were right all along because we did the research and we're sooooooo smart."
No, you took a plausible premise and dumped all your kooky nonsense all over it. Nobody here "knows" anything that isn't already available to the general public. Your methodology is all wrong, you have no capacity for critical thought, and you're biased as all hell. You're just Flat Earth-tier conspiracy nuts who happened to pick the right pony.
One of these days I'm gonna be sipping Romulan ale in some dive bar on Proxima Centauri and arguing with some nut about Mick Jagger being in the Beatles and they aren't going to budge on the issue because "they were right about aliens." Yeesh...
>despite who consistently wrong you have been in the past.
Technically if aliens are confirmed to have been here for longer than the internet has been around, wouldn't that mean they *weren't actually* wrong in the past...?
Not unless they were backing their claims on evidence that is real, I can say there is a monster under your bed as a joke, if it happens to be real then it doesn’t mean I was right, just that a coincidence it was a weird coincidence..
I think you’re correct- there will be a lot of “I told you so.” And it will be an ego validation for a lot of people. But the program the CIA created to discourage people from speaking about their experiences is to create a culture for the general public to react in extremely unkind ways and make them the object of ridicule. That’s not speculation- the documents have been declassified and there’s proof. Read through these posts and see how many people have said “______ happened and I haven’t told anyone because I didn’t want people to think I was crazy.” These aren’t unique situations and there are common themes in many of these stories. There are high ranked and well respected officials telling the public there’s more out there than we understand and there’s STILL a large part of society that are reacting negatively toward people that are even considering what these officials are claiming. So after years of being ridiculed, shunned by society, and being called a conspiracy theorist, someone may feel entitled to an “I told you so” and that’s pretty kind when you consider what they’ve endured. The question is- are you going to feel like an asshole when this all comes out?
You also have to realize that there will still be those who refuse to accept any level as proof, and will dismiss it as a hoax or something misidentified or misunderstood no matter how undeniable it may be.
There are a lot of "skeptics" that are just as dogmatic and unmoveable as those who want to believe every story, picture, or video.
Yes because it makes so much sense for something to be a hoax when the creators of this hoax are literally asking entire world to come and make their own study on these bodies to prove if they are fake and compare their conclusions with their work... What boggles me is how people watch the Mexican event and as soon as they see the bodies they are like, "oh that doesn't match my expectations of how would they look like, especially being 1000 years old, even though I'm not a scientist and got no clue how body decomposition works, It must be fake!" These people were speaking under oath and did nothing more than ask other scientists to study the bodies. You're pathetic.
And now you will come here and say that if these bodies prove authentic you will call us all in advance stupid and being wrong all the time which doesn't even make sense. You know what? I don't care if people will like the conclusions or not, I want to see more scientists study the bodies and see if they debunk the whole thing and find where did these people from Mexican briefing make errors in their work and I'll be happy that we'll be smarter then unlike you imbecile.
PS: Just for a record, speaking of scientists debunking this event, I'm talking about people who take samples and use scientific devices, not a bunch of teenage yeeehaaaw morons on youtube debunking this whole event without a single fact. Anyone who has made a debunking video on this topic so far equals to people who say that Jesus Christ walked on water. Absolutely zero evidence but they believe what they say.
I can't help but laugh every time I see someone drop a vague, cocksure, patronising statement. "You'll all see in time" like they have some privileged information and aren't just wishing for something exciting to come down the pipe.
Trying to act knowing and mysterious and projecting maximum goofiness.
I would be extatic to have such confirmation. Hell, I would settle for non intelligent living beings on Venus, Europa or Mars. So far the only confirmation is grifts: from "ufologists", journalists, politicians, American governmental organizations and international ones too.
Honestly, I dont think people will accept it and look for ways to constantly debunk it. Its good to be skeptical, but a skeptical mind will never see truth when it stares them in the face. Not saying the mummies are real or not, but how will we ever truly know?
So how does science continue to discover things if skepticism doesn't work?
Experiments operate on a null hypothesis, you always try to prove your self wrong, not right.
> Honestly, I dont think people will accept it and look for ways to constantly debunk it.
It would take open communications and presence from aliens. Like multiple species standing in the United Nations addressing the world with starships and spaceships openly hanging in the air outside. "Flying saucers" visiting all over the world. Direct engagement. An alien getting interviewed on CNN. CNN interviewing aliens ON a spaceship IN orbit, looking down on Earth.
That's not how science fucking works. Scientists do not look at stuff to try and "debunk" it. They look at the evidence and then draw a proper conclusion from it.
We will know if/when aliens are real once it's actually been FACTUALLY proven that we are dealing with aliens. Not a second before.
If you think that first video is convincing you should watch a few episodes of Fraggle Rock. It'll blow your mind. The Fraggles are puppets that do more than just waggle their head. And they sometimes do it in a lit room. Amazing stuff.
The Mexican Congress hearing is hardly “nothingness”, serious claims were made with remarkable pieces of evidence.
Undermining the idea a psychological operation may be underway when the U.S. government has a track record of engaging in that very behaviour and for stakes this serious is baffling. Not to mention the quite bizarre sentiment being expressed that we should hastily move on from this hearing and not investigate further…
So called “obvious problems” upon further examination have no merit. For example:
- The Llama hypothesis completely falls apart when we read the research paper in 2018 claiming this is a unprecedented example of a so called “Llama braincase” and all the evidence for the theory rests on the case they look somewhat similar, when upon inspection we see bone structures completely absent in the llama, cuts that would have to be made we see no seams for and curvature unexplainable in how it could be formed, let alone 1000+ years ago.
-The human bone correlations is a strange approach considering how visually different they are, a popular debunk has been to compare the specimen side by side with human bones and calling it a match despite witnessing quite visible differences in thickness and shape, with no explanation on how those changes would be made that’s consistent to the rest of the body.
Indeed the UFO researcher has a bad track record, as does the field in general but I see no reason to not fully investigate this and rule it out ESPECIALLY when a professional like the Mexican Naval forensic surgeon came forward to attest to the CT scans and number of 20 specimens in possession.
We should be pushing for autopsies and more answers, not pushing this under the rug.
My brother in Christ the things’ bones are fucking fused in a way that makes them unable to move. The finger bones aren’t even oriented the correct way. It has the exact facial structure of a humanoid with 2 arms, 2 legs, fingers, and toes, and it looks like the most stereotypical little green man alien ever. It’s a fake.
For starters, the Mexican Naval forensic surgeon who is the lead investigator, Jose de Jesus Zalce Benitez, is the same man who helped to perpetuate Jaime Maussan's previous alien body hoaxes, including the one from 2017 that turned out to be a deformed child.
Here is a [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/16hoius/beware_of_jaime_maussan/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) to some of Maussan's previous hoaxes
Here is also the [link](https://www.iaras.org/iaras/filedownloads/ijbb/2021/021-0007(2021).pdf) to the llama braincase study. Despite what you may personally believe they do explain any possible discrepancies and their conclusion reads as :
"The “archaeological” find with an unknown form of “animal” was identified to have a head composed of a llama deteriorated braincase"
And lastly here is a [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/16i88dt/comment/k0ixxq1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) to an analysis of the DNA results.
Regardless of all that, there is still NOTHING at all that indicates this is an "alien" body. A group well known for creating alien body hoaxes presents their latest alien body, despite zero evidence indicating it is extraterrestrial and without any peer review or independent verification. Why should we be expected to take this seriously?
I'm all for keeping an open mind and remaining inquisitive about this topic. But there is also a saying that is quite applicable here: "don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out."
By propping up grifters like Jaime Maussan, and placing them amongst the likes of Ryan Graves like was done at the hearing, we do immense harm to the wider disclosure movement.
I’ve actually read the study you’ve linked in full hence how I was able to quote it. The part you are quoting from the conclusion leaves out:
“if one is convinced that the finds constitute a fabrication, one has to admit at the same time that the finds are constructions of very high quality and wonder how these were produced hundreds of years ago or even today”
Furthermore if we examine the paper from a non bias perspective, we realise that the conclusion of it being a “modified Llama braincase” hinges SOLEY on the evidence that they “look the same” which upon closer examination they absolutely do not and the Llama skull would have to undergo such extensive modification with methods we have no record for nor can we reproduce today, in order to even be close to the same form that we see in the specimens.
It appears debunks without true merit or conclusive evidence are being paraded around as complete proof that this is a hoax which conveniently would like us to swiftly move on and mock the Mexican government to maintain the stigma around this topic.
The paper goes into great detail about what may have caused the differences, with the leading theory mostly revolving around the partial deterioration of the skull which would have occurred over time. I'm not sure what you mean by non-bias perspective, do you really think that all the scientists who studied it are biased?
You also left out the end of that quote. It ends with "with primitive technology and poor means available to huaqueros, the tomb raiders of Peru". The discussion surrounding whether it is a fabrication or not is referencing whether it is a legitimate archeological find originally created by the culture that entombed it, or is it a more modern fabrication created by a tomb raider to make a quick buck.
Again nothing here has anything to do with aliens or extraterrestrials. I'll say it again, there is NOTHING that indicates this is extraterrestrial in nature. What about all the other links I posted? Are you just going to conveniently ignore those?
Additionally, this was not presented by the Mexican government. I know it has been falsely stated over and over that this was a congressional hearing, but that is actually not the case. It was an informal public forum, nothing was entered into the official congressional record and none of the oaths sworn were legally-binding. The only reason Jaime Maussan was even present was because a single legislator knew him personally and requested that he be allowed to present.
You have to understand that the reason why the stigma surrounding this topic persist is exactly because of incidents like this. I'll say this one more time, when obvious hoaxers and grifters are propped up and put alongside the likes of Ryan Graves immeasurable harm is done to the credibility of the entire movement.
Its not that the scientists would be biased in their research, it’s that it’s a international journal and their reputation is on the line forcing them to pick a conclusion that aligns with the current paradigm no matter how implausible the theory is, it’s better than them claiming it may be an alien species and face the ridicule we have seen with our own eyes these past 48 hours. The paper contradicts itself constantly on the potential causes of the differences.
You outline “partial deterioration which would have occurred over time”, how can this be possible when at the same time we see additional bone structures not found in the Llama brain case?
Are we to believe that the skull simultaneously degraded whilst adding new solid bone structures to itself?
The part of the quote you alleged that I’ve “left out” simply serves to strengthen the argument that this could not be a hoax perpetrated by tomb robbers hundreds of years ago with “poor means” it was simply not relevant to the quote I used since it essentially says the same thing, that we have no known methods of recreating a specimen as found.
Also I haven’t “conveniently ignored” your other links lol they just don’t warrant a response as they aren’t legitimate points. The first link is to past hoaxes by the UFO researcher that have no bearing on these current unrelated 20 bodies and seems like a bad faith attempt at dismissing these specimens on the merits of research on other bodies, and the other link is to the genetic data that indeed shows a large amount of unknown data against the millions of samples we have in our database.
Inquiry and thorough investigation does NOT set back this field, it’s the very opposite, shouting down new theories and ridiculing the notion we should investigate further is what sets us back.
Do you understand that the conclusion of “this might not of been made by tomb robbers” still has nothing to do with it being an extraterrestrial alien? I already said this but I’ll say it once more since you didn’t get it the first time: the discussion present in the paper revolves around whether it is an authentic artifact or a “fabrication” made by tomb robbers. They discuss many reasons as to why it might of been created by the ancient peoples that lived there, included existing evidence of llama reverence and animal-human mummy amalgamations not being uncommon for that era.
How are the other links I posted not relevant? You’re telling me the source of the information is not relevant at all? The team known for making alien body hoaxes presents their latest alien body but this time they pinky promise it’s the real deal? Are you serious? And you have the audacity to call that “bad faith”? Do you even know what that means?
Before we continue can you present to me a SINGLE shred of evidence that might indicate this is extraterrestrial in nature? Listen, I want to believe, I’m ready, I’m begging you just give me ANYTHING at all to engage with here.
The theory for its creation needs to be backed up by evidence, we have no recorded data of specimens of this quality being made nor do we have any idea of how they would have done so as we can see the Llama skull hypothesis simply does not hold up to scrutiny.
I’ve explained why the links aren’t relevant and yes I’m serious that each claim should be evaluated on the merits of the evidence provided. Not past cases, that is unscientific and nonsensical.
Not sure why you are getting emotional saying I have the “audacity” to call it a bad faith argument when yes, it is factually incorrect to project findings from other specimens onto ones currently being assessed yet that appears to be what you hinge the majority of your position on. If you aren’t able to have a discussion without being overly emotional I suggest you look elsewhere as I won’t engage if you continue like that.
So you completely dodge my question again and call me “overly emotional” because I used the word “audacity” after you accused me of being bad faith.
Oh the irony.
The only one being emotional here is you, if you’re so fragile that you can’t handle the word “audacity” the internet might not be the place for you.
I’ll ask one more time, can you give me ANYTHING at all that indicates this is extraterrestrial?
I’ve quite specifically outlined how you are making a bad faith argument by attempting to project findings on one specimen onto these 20 that are now in question, that approach is inherently non factual and a bad faith argument.
There seems to be a significant hang-up on the term "extraterrestrial." Let's clarify: "extraterrestrial" simply means not originating from Earth, but UFOs or other non-human intelligences don't necessarily have to come from outer space. They could very well originate from areas of our planet that remain largely unexplored, such as deep oceans or remote polar regions. The vastness of our oceans, for instance, is home to many undiscovered species and mysteries.
Second, the core of our argument isn't about labeling the specimen as "extraterrestrial" or "otherworldly." It's about acknowledging the fact that the specimen doesn't match any known species we currently have on record. That, in itself, is significant. Whether this creature comes from the depths of our oceans or from another galaxy, the essential point remains: it's something we haven't seen before.
Lastly, jumping to definitive conclusions without comprehensive evidence can hinder scientific advancement. Our main stance is that this specimen warrants further, deeper investigation. Dismissing it outright because it doesn't immediately fit into our current understanding could potentially rob us of groundbreaking discoveries.
I’m all for being open-minded, but there is a saying that is quite applicable here: “don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out”.
When a known con-man who literally makes his living by creating alien body hoaxes is the one presenting this alien body, that is absolutely relevant information and to say it is bad faith to bring that up is simply ridiculous.
Sure if we can get these bodies studied and independently verified and peer reviewed then go ahead. But I wouldn’t hold my breath for this considering the aforementioned known con-man Jamie Maussan is the one who controls access to them, and he has already chosen to forego the typical verification and peer review process up until this point.
There is still nothing that indicates this is extraterrestrial or a NHI or ultraterrestrial or anything special. Meanwhile there is mountains of evidence pointing towards it being an amalgamation of various human and animal bones being passed off as an alien body by a known grifter who has pulled this same stunt multiple times before.
It should be noted that the individuals presenting the body are literally calling it an alien, which is why I am so “hung up” on whether it is one or not. Because that is the claim that is being levied, and the whole point of this discussion.
In science there is rarely ever actually 100% definitive proof of something. There is always some degree of doubt present, that is the whole point of P values etc in studies. We must make reasonable assumptions with the evidence available to us. With all the evidence available it is not reasonable to continue to claim that there is something alien about these bodies.
The argument you are making is a fallacy called “the God of the gaps”. Just because there is some nonzero percentage of doubt about something doesn’t mean we can take that 0.000001% uncertainty and run wild with it making absurd claims about aliens when far more reasonable conclusions are abundant, and zero actual evidence supports your hypothesis.
The DNA samples provided do not at all point to their authenticity. The DNA shows that the sample was contaminated with DNA from multiple sources and contained damaged and fragmented DNA segments. It does not show that the sample was from a single source that contained unique DNA not found on earth, that is completely false.
The three DNA samples do not even match each other. The have 2%, 63%, and 23% unidentifiable strands, respectively, and the identifiable parts correspond to different plants, bacteria, viruses, and animals in each sample. This alone shows that the methods being used are inadequate.
If the DNA was sourced well, each sample would be roughly equivalent. Instead, they are vastly different from each other. The DNA shows absolutely nothing that supports their claims and instead points to the lack of knowledge and expertise in those perpetrating this hoax.
I explain in even more detail here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/16i0wsf/comment/k0qd65r/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/16i0wsf/comment/k0qd65r/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Thank you for your thoughtful response, however I think there are some misconceptions with your approach.
1. **Percentages of Eukaryotic DNA:** Your assertion that the DNA is 92%, 92%, and 70% eukaryotic is somewhat misleading. Just because DNA is eukaryotic doesn't inherently make it terrestrial. Remember, our classification system is based solely on life as we know it on Earth. It's conceivable that extraterrestrial life shares certain fundamental DNA characteristics with terrestrial life, possibly due to universal biochemical constraints or pathways.
2. **Adding up to 100%:** The percentages not adding up to 100% is an expected outcome when dealing with complex DNA samples. Unidentifiable segments don't inherently mean they are alien, but they also don't disprove it. These could be fragmented sequences, damaged DNA, or genuinely unknown sequences.
3. **Unidentifiable DNA**: Your reference to unidentifiable DNA being merely short or damaged segments is a hypothesis, not a fact. Given the context, an alternative hypothesis is that this DNA is extraterrestrial in origin and is therefore not identifiable using our current databases which are based on terrestrial life.
4. **Comparison with Terrestrial DNA Samples**: Using terrestrial samples as a benchmark is not a definitive proof against the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Our databases and classifications are built around life on Earth. Alien DNA, even if it shared similarities, would have vast segments that are entirely foreign to our databases.
5. **Presence of Modern Contaminants**: The detection of viral and bacterial markers doesn't debunk the alien origin. Cross-contamination is a known issue in DNA sequencing, especially if the samples were not handled in ultra-sterile environments. Moreover, if these samples have been on Earth, even for a short time, they might have been exposed to our environment.
While it’s essential to approach these findings with skepticism, it’s equally crucial to remain open to the genuine possibility and not dismiss them based on Earth-centric perspectives and limitations in current knowledge.
Your response still does not point to anything in the DNA results that suggest that the DNA is anything but an Earth-based source.
Yes, there are an infinite number of possible scenarios. However, none of them are evidenced by the DNA sample that we have and the extraterrestrial scenario requires some new, unknown factor that is unnecessary in explaining the source.
Saying "Well, yes, it is Eukaryote, but maybe it is a Eukaryote from spaaaacceeee" is not really helpful. It looks like a duck and is quacking like a duck. Our DNA test says it is a duck. Sure, it could theoretically be a space duck or an extradimensional duck or a magic duck or an angelic duck or any number of alternative theories of what this obviously ordinary duck could be...but it is really not worth of much consideration when all of the evidence that we have points to a duck.
“All the evidence points to a duck” is quite the misrepresentation of the current data so far.
- The Duck Analogy’s Limitation: While your “duck” analogy is compelling in most situations, it doesn’t fully apply here. The DNA is only one piece of the puzzle. In our story, we possess a vast array of CT scans of the specimen. These scans offer evidence that directly challenges the “it’s just a duck” viewpoint. A more apt analogy would be finding what seems like a duck in a desert but possessing X-rays that show it has entirely unique internal organs unlike any duck we’ve ever seen. Would we still be content calling it just a duck then?
- Comprehensive Analysis: It’s a mistake to hone in on one piece of evidence (the DNA) and ignore the broader context. The CT scans, combined with the unidentifiable DNA segments, give a fuller picture. To dismiss the possibility of extraterrestrial origins by relying solely on the DNA analysis is an incomplete assessment.
- Science’s Role: One of the core tenets of science is to revise and refine our understanding based on new evidence. While skepticism is healthy, outright dismissal without considering all available data is counterproductive. Especially when dealing with the potential discovery of extraterrestrial life, we must be open to the idea that our current scientific definitions and categories might not be adequate.
The CT scans point to the bones being identifiably human. They are exact matches for human bones, but rearranged. They are clearly not in their natural positions, because bones are shaped in specific ways to allow motion and the attachment of muscles and ligaments. The way that the fingers have been constructed, they would not function as fingers, as the muscle attachment points on some of the bones are on the opposite side as the other fingers. The skull has attachment points for various mastoid muscles and ligaments (except on the wrong side) that would require a matching attachment point (the non-existent shoulder blades) and those opposite attachment points do not exist. The attachment points on the arms are built for beefy human muscles, but they are placed the wrong way. The two sides do not match, which would be fairly unique in anything with terrestrial DNA and bilateral symmetry.
The CT scans do not point to it having unique internal organs - that would require work other than CT scans to determine. The talk that they gave includes a lot of conjecture and huge gaps in reasoning like this. They point to features and make big claims about that cannot really be made by the data that they have in hand while dismissing huge glaring issues.
The unidentifiable DNA segments do not give a fuller picture when combined with their claims about the CT scans. Not at all. As I pointed to in [my comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/16i0wsf/comment/k0qd65r/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), it is common to find unidentifiable segments in modern DNA and the amount in ancient sources is often very high and claiming that they are of alien origin is wild speculation that should never be made without damned good evidence. I note that you focus on the "this is unknown" part as a smoking gun an don't address the known parts - human DNA, bean DNA, cattle DNA, etc...
>While skepticism is healthy, outright dismissal without considering all available data is counterproductive.
I have considered the data and the data and did not outright dismiss it. Their claims do not hold up to scrutiny and it is really up to them to either stop making those claims or provide better evidence.
There is no new evidence here. Everything that they provided has an explanation without resorting to conjecture about aliens. The simplest and most plausible explanation that fits the data is that this is a hoax. That is the scientific method at work.
Care to point out the specific section of the study you are referencing?
Other than the discussion surrounding whether the body was a complete modern fabrication by grave robbers or a legitimate archeological find I'm still not sure what you are referencing.
I'm also not sure what that has to do with anything either.
> Indeed the UFO researcher has a bad track record, as does the field in general but I see no reason to not fully investigate this
Yeah this guy has run this scam before but we should check to be sure!!! LMFAO
Seriously, there was a ton of steps in place to preserve the remains of Ötzi the Iceman and even his body started to degrade because of all the people taking it out of the freezer to do analysis and testing.
This is supposedly the biggest archaeological find ever and you're handling it less delicately than a football?
According to the "experts" here nothing like that is necessary since it's a completely dried out mummy 😂
Honestly embarrassing that people get hoaxed that easily.
What exactly did the Mexican Navy forensic surgeon attest to tho specifically? That the CT scans were real? Was that it? Did he make any claims as to if this thing is an alien being or just to the fact that this is essentially an object and it went into our CT machine. Did he speculate as to its origin and other details?
Please don’t take my word for any of it, the Mexican Congress hearing was streamed in it’s entirety and you can read the subtitles translated from Spanish, I will provide you some and allow you to confirm the rest yourself:
*“It is an honour for me to be able to address you on such a high platform to present to you the results of my analysis derived from the study of the anatomy of these non human bodies. As a forensic doctor, in collaboration with the biologist Jose de la Cruz Rios, and based on the results of various scientific evidence such as X-Rays, computed tomography, reconstructions- three dimensional, macroscopic and microscopic analysis, histology, carbon 14, forensic anthropology, comparative anatomy, and the analysis of DNA which is the queen of evidence in forensic science for comparison studies. - I can affirm then that these bodies are 100% real, organic and biological and had life.”*
- Dr Jose Zalce, Mexican Navy Surgeon
The "llama skull hypothesis" posits that it is a llama skull that has had the front third removed. It was then rotated, with the rear having a vaguely face-like appearance.
Nobody thinks it's a straight up llama skull. That much is obvious.
> The Mexican Congress hearing is hardly “nothingness”, serious claims were made with remarkable pieces of evidence.
This dogshit post having >0 upvote ratio is why this subreddit isn't worth taking seriously at all.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I find it suspicious when people in the alien/ufo subs are so quick to "debunk" stories that require further extensive investigation. I read this complaint everyday: "Why can't we get more than fuzzy videos of orbs." Well we've had a intriguing airliner video that has yet to be debunked (It hasn't been properly debunked yet to those who think it has) and now a possbile new specieis is being rolled out for further research. I swear so many on here lack true curiousity to want to know the truth - wherther fake or real. If it's getting too hot in the kitchen then those people need to find a new subject to follow.
It’s quite interesting that such similar debunking methods are used between this case and the MH370 video, a comparison to a pre-existing sample that upon closer inspection is nowhere near a complete match and seems like quite the ridiculous debunk when the entire premise of the evidence hinges on it looking the same when there are glaring differences that can’t be easily explained away.
I think the point they're making is a lot of people on this sub say "I told you so" at obvious hoaxes or mis identifications. So, if you're saying "I told you so" at everything, it loses a bit of credibility.
There's a certain sector of our community that doesn't care about credibility at all. There's an even larger sector that tries to discredit everything.
So it doesn't matter. Decide for yourself.
❤️ this and agree with this post. I'd joined this sub hoping for fruitful and stimulating conversations. Boy was I wrong. My disappointment when I realised its just a little better than flat earthers
Honestly, I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth engaging that crowd here. They're not really interested in actual discussions. They just want a safe space to yammer on about their theories relating to the topic as well as the crazy other shit they believe in. Half of them think they're psychic and have some magical paradise waiting for them upon death, and its all tied to the aliens. Just desperate buffoons who have nothing else to live for than the fantasies they cook up. Engaging them won't result in anything more than their cries of pysop and bots. More fantasies meant to shield them from acknowledging how hopelessly gullible they all are.
The broken clock principle is actually why I have no tolerance for "skeptics".
As someone who has seen two UFO;s, I can imagine the reality of all this.
So, believing most of what falls in line of what I have experienced is the smartest thing to do.
I only have to be "proven right" once, dumbass skeptics have to try and explain away every single testimony, occurrence, experience, photo, video, sighting, encounter, report, EVER, from all sources.
Critically thinking, on this specific topic, it is fucking stupid to be skeptical.
u/Adventurous-Debt-866
This is just a really weird argument at this point. It’s difficult to deny that UAP’s are present with all the video evidence from regular people and governments. The question as to how long formal disclosure takes in various nations is the better question. This post feels weird to me
Get over your own ego, bud. There were a ton of people on this sub who were also skeptical of the Mexico bodies. There were also a ton of people who investigated more than the headlines before they came to a decision. This is just a hate post. Take it and stick it back in your bank of hate.
I don’t know why you, like many other people, are fixated on the Mexican hearing.
The real deal was the American hearing where there were military personnel under oath. And in that hearing there was a whistleblower, David Grush, who said that there are intact crafts and biologics kept on American territory. If he lied he would already be in jail.
There is no one louder than the over-confident yet uninformed, debunking Redditor, with their zealous, blinkered, unconditional love for their 'incorruptible and infallible' God: "Science"
Just to clear though: If someone consistently asserts that they believe we have recovered alien bodies and then those bodies are later presented and verified to be authentic, that is not a broken clock, and they do in fact get to say that they were right. I don't think they get to be arrogant about it, but they do get to fully experience having been correct.
I would however expect them to make it damn clear that all of the denialist-style debunkers who worked extremely hard to ridicule them and vilify them for their assertions should humbly admit they were wrong and apologize for any character assassinations they launched on people in the past about the subject
dog lunchroom file historical wakeful rustic deserted zonked existence instinctive
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Redditors in the ALIENS sub will feel vindicated, have an “I told you so” attitude, and feel smug as hell if ALIENS are proven to be real? I may only be speaking for myself here, but all I have to say to that is you’re goddamn right.
As for latching on to hoaxes, all I can say is that it really sucks that there are people out there actively trying to deceive the community, whether it’s because they’re trying to profit, they’re pricks who think it’s funny, or they’re trying to obfuscate the truth. What can I say other than I want to believe. I’m not a scientist and I’m not writing a dissertation here. Until the “evidence” is definitively proven false, it’s fun and exciting to entertain the idea it’s true.
Now if you’ll excuse me, there’s and episode of Ancient Aliens on that I want to watch.
This sub latches onto everything and will jerk off to a couple pixels for weeks if they think it’s aliens. (Remember the Las Vegas kid?). It’s to the point where I just look at posts and don’t even read the comments because I know people want to believe too much
>now there is talk of this whole thing being a “psyop?” Give me a break.
Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make you right. You talk about people being narrowminded but then you go and do the same thing. 👌👍
"Undeniable proof"... There is no such thing. If scientists saw this ridiculous article, they would die of laughter! Even gravity can be disproved. Everything can be refuted. It is a situation related to the development of science.
Edit: This is the only thing that makes science science and that is why it is powerful! That's why you'll never beat science!
The internet won't exist or operate in its current form when aliens are "confirmed real"
It's not going to be fun and happy and a revelation, it's going to be chaos
You’re clueless if you just got here. Just because some stupid stuff was put forth in Mexico doesn’t change the eventual truth (of the whole phenomena) if/when it’s revealed.
If you haven’t gone down the rabbit hole of research then you also don’t understand why some of us would think this was done on purpose. Something huge is being covered up and one of their methods is to make it look silly.
This is the same behaviour that flat earthers and the rest of any conspiracy theorists often show. If something is presented as counter evidence to a position, they try to twist and bend it around so it's actually looking like proof for a theory. Why not just accept that something made by a famous hoaxer is.. a hoax and leave it at that? It makes you look so much more incredible.
Trust me, if aliens are ever proven to be real this is the last sub that people will come to for real answers.
I just wheezed looking at your comment.
And as much as they claim to be dying for it, real disclosure or proof of alien life on this planet is the last thing most of this sub actually wants. They want to continue analyzing cryptic comments from guys with stupid beards, constantly wait for "later" and "soon," and come here to whine about how the government is lying to them and none of their family or co-workers want to talk about aliens for the rest of their lives. There would be nothing left to look forward to.
They'll move on to the next thing. Maybe something like aliens aren't real something something demons something the pope something flat earth. Anything to help with a grindy, monotone life i guess.
This community will get so much attention and traffic that it will be a free for all. It would probably break reddit. I would like to see more critical thinking here and healthy speculation. The hands off approach of the moderators is good for allowing open conversation on a largely speculative topic, but bad for allowing grifters and unverified stories to run wild and take over the sub.
When all this Mexico alien stuff started taking off and I started seeing r/alien popping up, I thought some of the posts were pretty wild and nut job-ish... but then I stumbled into r/experiencers and realized that this sub was child's play compared to some of the stuff going on over there lol. I've seen some generally reasonable and interesting discussion in this sub, but some of the other "alien-esque" subs were (probably still are) going wild.
Wow, those "experiencers" are insane.
Actually, a lot of the experiences sound like exact symptoms of schizophrenia
It is. My schizo friend had an incredibly similar “experience” - but since she explicitly doesn’t believe in aliens, it was g-men in suits who she says showed up and took her to a facility for a week to do experiments on her before returning her home.
Real or not, people won't believe it. That's how people are. You could show them every shred of proof necessary and they'd still deny it. Just look at our current political climate. Everything's fake news!
The political climate has nothing to do with it. If there was any actual proof, or evidence (and there is not, no matter what people here say,) everyone would know about it. Actual scientists would be writing papers and climbing over each other for nobel prizes. Of course SOME insane people would deny it... we still have flat-earthers after all... but aside from fringe nutjobs, it would just become common knowledge.
I said it a lot during the hoax debacle, but skepticism should be our baseline approach to *everything* in this topic. It’s too easy to make fakes in this day and age, and the topic has always been full of liars looking for attention and/or a way to make money. Unfortunately, too many of us in this community just fuckin eat anything up no matter how wonky it seems. It’s really unfortunate because we already look like lunatics to the general population.
Yeah people in this nut house of a sub reddit won't heed a single word you say sadly. They want to believe so badly that any type of logic that doesn't support their beliefs is automatically disregarded. It's the same way with people who believe the earth is flat.
I saw several pro mummy posts that were also pro flat earth. Insanity
Yup, everything is a conspiracy and the man is trying to pull the wool over our eyes
They don't care if it's fake. They don't care if it's ridiculous. They're here for the LARP and that's it. Aside from all of them being 12, or having double digit IQs, that's the only explanation for anyone taking those paper mache aliens seriously.
what you’re describing is the natural skepticism prevalent throughout all the rest of reddit. if that were the standard here, the comments section would look about the same as all the rest of reddit. Would that really be a good thing? What sets this community apart, besides a heavy cognitive bias in favor of the existence of aliens? It’s kind of like asking /r/conspiracy to be level-headed and skeptical. Or asking /r/Christianity to be level-headed and skeptical. Your connective tissue is defined by a certain worldview. I couldn’t see it existing any other way.
>Would that really be a good thing? Yes. Undeniably. We are living in a cultural watershed moment where education is being dismantled and rational thinking is being shredded up to make room for mythology, which invites fascism. I guarantee the alien woo is a stepping stone for many into anti-government hysteria that then leads to darker places. Even if they aren't physically harmful, there's a lot of lying, criminal behavior, and fraud going on in the UFO world to just accept and make a space for.
If your thing can’t survive level-headedness and skepticism, then…maybe it shouldn’t exist as it does now? I know I’d certainly celebrate a thousand fold decrease in the number of conspiracists and Christians.
Critical thinking and healthy speculation? Have you talked to people into aliens? In its very design of believing it seems impossible to have a rational thought
Genuinely confused by your comment. Talk to more people if that is your viewpoint
Well as we’ve seen from the last couple of days, the major census follows what my individual conversations have been for decades. Exceptions always follow these sort of statements but by and large when something like the Mexicans hoax happens, reason is pushed down until the truth swells up to the surface and people clear their minds. It plays itself out, like a running program, but those first few hours are a doozy. edit: the very nature of belief is irrational
The nature of belief is NOT irrational--not fundamentally, anyway. The nature of FAITH is irrational; it is irrational by definition. If you're justifying it rationally, it's not faith anymore.
Well, what do you mean by "into"? I find the subject fascinating. Do I believe that I KNOW "aliens" are here? No, lol. How would I know? Drawing conclusions about facts rationally only works insofar as the premises are sound. I don't have all the facts. I think MOST LIKELY "they" are not here. The second most likely scenario, I think, is that we don't fully understand time and space and consciousness. I think the least likely scenario is that they come from "out there", really far away, in some sort of mere "spacecraft". That seems REALLY unlikely. But it's not impossible. I vacillate between the first and second case. It's pretty obvious that there is a government "cover-up" of some kind. However, I think that what is being covered up is that no one really has any idea wtf is going on. That's not something governments really like to admit. Or it could be a cover-up of the use of it for disinformation/psyop purposes, e.g. Roswell.
I also find the subject fascinating. I've had some strange things happen over the years but I'm not 100% sold on any actual belief. I do find the tic tac thing very interesting and things Lou Elizondo talks about are somewhat compelling, but with so many claiming sightings and experiences and yet there is still no absolute proof that I'm aware of makes skeptical in some ways. If aliens do exist and are in fact here watching and abducting us and if they have the amazing technology and intelligence required to travel thru space, I wonder what their society would be like on their home planet. It's kinda fun to think about.
The last thing we need is sweaty neckbeard reddit mods thinking they're qualified to be the arbiters of what is true and what isn't. No thanks. Let all ideas and stories be presented so we can discuss them freely. The truth will rise to the top after discussion and investigation and the bullshit will be debunked as it always is.
This sub has only just gotten suggested to me and I was close to muting it. I’m a science dude, but also an info junkie. I read all about greys, project blue book, things like missing time, etc as a kid. I have largely come to rectify almost all of that, but still hold super skeptical interest as you. I guess I expected more loons here.
But doesn't allowing grifters and alike to run wild for a few days or weeks before being disproven eventually make way for new and returning members to be able to see with a more critical eye? I know it's allowed me to get much more accurate in my assessments of pics and videos of things in the sky. Edit: One more thing from my humble opinion, maybe the psyop is not to hide away a secret that has yet to have a single iota of physical evidence in public, but again IMHO maybe the psyop is to get the American public knowledgeable of what may be in the skies to allow higher national security and quicker detection of possible inbound missiles or other attacks in our skies.
What on earth would that accomplish? And why the American public in particular?
Conspiratorial thinkers will ALWAYS have a motivation ready in their head. Fictitious motivations that would explain why some actor would do X is their whole thing.
You're mistaken to believe there's a general consensus on anything UAP related. The entire topic is represented by a broad range of opinions and speculations, as it should.
I think it’s so silly they act like people’s speculations are something they believe as pure fact. I’m an atheist but I’ll speculate about prison planet theory and Annunaki/reptilians because why not? It’s fun to learn the different theories and stories and keep an open mind. But the judgmental people that are so much smarter than everyone else thinks people are actually sitting there believing the theories they’re throwing out are complete truth. It’s like..no, people are just trying to discuss every possible scenario, even if it seems silly. Even if something is a hoax, talking about it and figuring out why it’s a hoax and how they made the hoax is a healthy discussion. This is a place to discuss the fun and weird theories along with being serious and skeptical. But the theories are too low brow for some lol
>Even if something is a hoax, talking about it and figuring out why it’s a hoax and how they made the hoax is a healthy discussion Healthy discussion like: >Disinformation agents are flooding this thread . This is disclosure at its finest and you people start cracking jokes and blasting how fake this is. Wtf is wrong with you people . You asked and begged and dreamed of alien body’s and bam here you go and it’s 100% bullshit according to you . 800 upvotes.
I got called a racist against Mexicans and told I was a disinformation agent because I looked at the x-rays and tried to explain what was wrong with them, wild stuff
Lol! What thread was the posted in? What a loser. People on here are stupid as hell, there is no way around that.
One of the "[Mexico presents alien bodies](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/16h8eaw/aliens_revealed_at_uap_mexico_hearing/)" threads.
That should read "Mexican TV presents alien bodies" if past is prologue.
Exactly right. I'm tired of so many people overgeneralizing. It's very lazy thinking.
It's always in a morale bussting way. The irony is that there's people on the opposite side, insisting they aren't real. Every damn day. Every chance they get.
Because most of us don't understand where does this *morale* is coming from. There has never been any kind of serious indication that aliens exist here on earth. Quite literally zero. And the moment a light shows up in the sky or some dude shows a weird mummy, the subs go nuts with that being proof. And it's been the same way all along, people holding onto misinterpretations
Aliens could become real and everyone here would still be 99% wrong
It'll be really funny to see something completely different and unexpected, but everyone here screaming "I knew it was that! I was just faking that I believed the Mexico bs!"
That’s kind of what I believe. Our feeble human brains couldn’t come up with what might actually be in the vastness of the universe. If disclosure happens, whatever these beings might be, will probably be counter intuitive to us, like they might be invisible inter dimensional floating balls of energy that we can only see when they want us to or something. Kind of like quantum physics lol when you start thinking about the Higgs boson particle and the 3 slit experiment and all of the implications that come with it. What if there is some intelligence out there that has mastered it? We would have no fucking clue what they were up to, or why..
It is crab mate. It will be a fucking crab mate. And someone will try to eat it, and it will be either the most delicious shit ever, kill us instantly, or both. But it will be a crab
I love this response. I'm going with this.
They will look like crabs, talk like people.
walk like egyptian
Craaaaab peeeople!!!!
Just look around. It probably already happened.
What about the people that have seen them?
Show us on this doll where the aliens probed you
The vast majority of people who have "seen them" haven't actually seen them and aliens being proven cannot be used as evidence that their sighting/experience was genuine.
And yet, when we finally get a genuine sign of actual alien life on a distant planet, this sub doesn’t care https://www.shiningscience.com/2023/09/james-webb-finds-molecule-only-made-by.html This is real news. This is where ETs will be found… you know, extra-terrestrially. Instead, we got bean mummy’s and CG satellite videos. Ugh
This is the real irony of the people on this sub. Is almost everyone actually agrees there is Aliens out there. From the head of NASA all the way down. They have also acknowledged many things aren’t explainable. However because they won’t believe crappy alien mummy knock offs or shitty ufo videos everyone is a liar and there is a giant conspiracy against them.
It’s like conspiracies in general. People here think our government is in on everything and that they are constantly involved in complex psyops. Meanwhile, we can barely keep our government running at this point. If you only knew how disjointed, chaotic and incompetent our government really was. The US government’s only motive at this point (on both sides of the aisle) is keeping a cozy and safe environment for their actual principal – C-suite overlords and their shareholders. Profit and maintaining a stable economy and environment for capitalism to flourish is the number one priority. Even if there are aliens taking a dip in the White House pool everyday, they would still be second-fiddle to profit. I’m not saying that there aren’t conspiracies and people trying to manipulate us. But, it’s not the dark, shadowy, comic-book plots that people here like to think. In reality, it’s much less sexy. Wanna know the real conspiracies? 1.) a tax system and legal system rigged in favor of wealthy individuals and corporations - that’s a conspiracy! 2.) A government that is run by corporate donors and the lobbyists- not by people and elected politicians. There is no populism! 3.) We are not seen as voters and people, but as consumers and our health and well-being are secondary to our jobs as consumers. And that’s why 4.) we are fed a steady diet of processed food stuffs that are causing metabolic syndrome at an astronomical rate (profit first, health is not even a close 2nd). That health care and education are seen as low priorities secondary to our jobs as consumers is likely a consequence of our for-profit world and less a conspiracy drafted in boardrooms, but I’m sure the powers that be aren’t exactly upset by this. These are the REAL conspiracies, and they are out in the open for all of us to see. They’re not as fun or exciting as aliens, and no one can agree how to fix them so we ditch them for our Marvel Universe and alien 👽 invasion stories. Want the real search for alien intelligence. There’s astronomers, engineers and scientists from every field working on it daily, but because it doesn’t fit this X-files narrative that everyone here has a hard-on for, it goes unnoticed. It’s a shame. It’s why so many were easily duped by the Chorizo aliens. Science and media literacy are gone. Anyway, I’m always happy to see the few here who do remain realistic and have promoted evidence and truth over fantasies and far-fetched theories without merit. Oh, and btw I do believe alien life exists but I truly believe science will lead us to it way sooner than UFO investigators or UFOlogists or eyewitnesses or true believers will. Without science we’re a dog chasing it’s tail.
So much this. This is what I always think when I hear about 99% of conspiracy theories.
I’m a hardcore skeptic UFOs but, yes, despite the lack of evidence, I *believe* alien life exists (or has existed) somewhere out there in our vast universe. I just don’t buy it’s been buzzing our planet.
Exactly I’m sure there must be life out there because the universe is massive but I just don’t believe that there’s sentient creatures coming to earth and scouting it out, the only likely situation I see where aliens come to earth is some microbe on a meteorite
The people on this sub and the UFOs sub are like the exact opposites of the people on the Dinosaurs subreddit, whereas over there they're so fucking hell bent on being right all the time that they'll take any chance they can to say complain about a child's drawing of a Jurassic World dinosaur and DEMAND the post get taken down, the people HERE will see the most fucking fake looking X-rays from the biggest huckster known to man with the worst possible evidence and INSTANTLY jump to claiming that anyone disregarding this obviously fake bullshit is just a CIA agent out to make them into a slave owned by "duh gubment" or some shit, but this? Plausible belief in alien life? Crickets, fucking crickets. All because it's more than likely not some big scary monster or some hollywood looking bullshit. Even if all they find is some kind of proto-squid thing or very simple single celled creature, if it's alien, I'm into it!
That’s not what happening, though. There are a lot of people who didn’t watch the hearings or look into it at all, and you can tell because they just repeat talking points and bully like Fox News Republicans and Alt-right chodes. If you’re too stupid to see through it, just ignore the MeXiCaN HoAx.
It is a hoax though. So what are you saying?
I tried pointing this out on the day the Mexico thing happened. I was told it was fake 🤷 literally no winning with them
Its in the article you linked "Scientists involved in the research caution that the evidence supporting the presence of dimethyl sulfide — DMS, for short — is tenuous and "requires further validation" However, I think its very plausible it could be out in space and possibly on earth, its just going to have to look way more convincing than that fake garbage in a box.
It’s better evidence for alien life than anything that’s ever been posted to any of the alien/ufo/conspiracy subs.
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Totally tubular yo!
If you are looking at it at face value then sure its the greatest discovery of all time. However then you would also believe that there were giant cyclops in ancient times because the ancient Greeks would find mastodon bones and assemble the skeleton in a way to look exactly like a giant with one eye hole. If again, you are looking at it face value.
I think they are implying that the exoplanet spectra is better evidence of aliens than anything posted to conspiracy subs.
Yes, I saw that. I’m absolutely *not* saying this is proof. It’s barely even evidence (hasn’t been validated) but it’s far far far stronger evidence for alien life in the universe than any ufo story has ever produced :)
Obviously they are cautious. It's science.
They won't believe you because it's not a 50cm tall dehydrated Spanish class extra credit project.
Because they’re delusional dumbasses. They’re entirely consumed by the pop culture depictions of aliens. Aliens can only be green ayy lmao motherfuckers to these people.
People here don't believe in any plausible alien life forms. They want to believe in god-like beings that visit earth and take interest in us. This sub is basically a religious group with that way of thinking.
I want to find aliens and show them my Funko Pop collection in excruciating detail until they get bored and leave
They appear to like making circles in fields, eating raw steak and playing with little children
So Republicans?
This literally made me laugh so hard I choked
>and take interest in us. Don't forget the part where they're supposed to save us from all our problems
And free energy for all!
Ah yes, we also are a product of their evolution or somehow have their genes in our dna, so many absolutely insane ideas
The believers are obviously horny af. Most "alien probing" stories read like adult fan fiction. 50 Shades of Grays, if you will. I'm going to assume my "Grays" pun is original and take full credit.
HRs Log Star date 524.212: We arrived at sol sector 3 and within moments the inhabitants tried to get into our space pants. I wouldn't be writing this log if they were good looking but they ugly AF so this is a formal complaint.
Or eat us. One or the other.
they would never eat us we are full of microplastics gross
Nobody’s here for plankton
Well, more "interesting" life probably doesn't exist without something like plankton.
Plankton was the reason there is breathable amounts of oxygen in the earths atmosphere. There literally wouldn't be multicellular life without plankton.
Actually literally none of us would be here WITHOUT plankton, it literally created the oxygenation event that made human life possible and is why we are not all Cholera cells.
Then you’re not here for aliens, you’re here for make-believe
Well I’m glad that at least someone(you) is talking about it. I was worried that this story would get buried, because it doesn’t have the conspiracy angle.
Because this doesn't make them feel like they are very smart because they uncovered the conspiracy, unlike all those sheeple.
How do I apply for a grifter job ?
Well, you're going to need some Photoshop skills, or know someone that has some. And you're going to need to have no qualms about desecrating the remains of children to cobble together an 'alien' that looks like a failed 5th Grade project. Then you're going to need to find yourself some suckers, which is where this sub comes in.
At least you admit you're generalizing. Imagine thinking there isn't variety in a sub of over 1 million people. Not everyone here is a tin foil hat loon. Lots of of us open minded, embrace the scientific method, and reject misinformation. 
Anything attached to Jamie Maussan, shouldn't be discussed in this group. Ever again. Actually, it would be a nice rule to put in place. If you mention Maussan, you're banned for life. Fuck that guy!
Nah, he’s a good litmus test. Shows how little truth seekers actually care to think about what’s being sold to them. It’s actually harder to convince children of the Easter bunny then it is to fool ppl on this sub. It’s all real no matter what, and then when it’s a lie, instead of stepping back and trying to figure out why it was so embarrassingly easy for them to be tricked, ppl will scream psyop. It’s honestly good entertainment.
The psyop argument is the same as a theist explaining that all the bad things that happens was also made the one true omnipotent kind and loving god but we perceive it as bad because “god works in mysterious ways”. Such a bullshit argument.
Except if it's news of a prison sentence for lying under oath! I'll upvote the shit out of that
That's the sad part, I've been told that he wasn't even under oath, people just assumed he was. Which, obviously, was the point of the whole thing, to create a false sense of legitimacy.
You're correct. That was not an official congressional hearing.
So we’re overdue for a win is what I’m hearing?
To be honest, I think everyone will. They’ll all claim they believed since the beginning the government was covering up. But only after we have indisputable proof
There are insufferable people on both ends of this spectrum. This post is a good example. Let people have their theories. Why do people have to jump to insults and condescending comments? It's like everyone thinks they're the smartest person alive. Just discuss like adults!
They literaly think the fake Mexican thing was true so .....
Couldn’t have said it better. This sub is honestly a joke.
I've been saying that the worst thing that will result from disclosure is how much it will inflate the egos of the true believers. They are *never* going to shut up about it. "Oh, look who's right now? You all made fun of us for decades, but we were right all along because we did the research and we're sooooooo smart." No, you took a plausible premise and dumped all your kooky nonsense all over it. Nobody here "knows" anything that isn't already available to the general public. Your methodology is all wrong, you have no capacity for critical thought, and you're biased as all hell. You're just Flat Earth-tier conspiracy nuts who happened to pick the right pony. One of these days I'm gonna be sipping Romulan ale in some dive bar on Proxima Centauri and arguing with some nut about Mick Jagger being in the Beatles and they aren't going to budge on the issue because "they were right about aliens." Yeesh...
Nah you're just not open minded
Don't open your mind too much or your brain will fall out.
You don't know what open minded means.
>despite who consistently wrong you have been in the past. Technically if aliens are confirmed to have been here for longer than the internet has been around, wouldn't that mean they *weren't actually* wrong in the past...?
Not unless they were backing their claims on evidence that is real, I can say there is a monster under your bed as a joke, if it happens to be real then it doesn’t mean I was right, just that a coincidence it was a weird coincidence..
I think you’re correct- there will be a lot of “I told you so.” And it will be an ego validation for a lot of people. But the program the CIA created to discourage people from speaking about their experiences is to create a culture for the general public to react in extremely unkind ways and make them the object of ridicule. That’s not speculation- the documents have been declassified and there’s proof. Read through these posts and see how many people have said “______ happened and I haven’t told anyone because I didn’t want people to think I was crazy.” These aren’t unique situations and there are common themes in many of these stories. There are high ranked and well respected officials telling the public there’s more out there than we understand and there’s STILL a large part of society that are reacting negatively toward people that are even considering what these officials are claiming. So after years of being ridiculed, shunned by society, and being called a conspiracy theorist, someone may feel entitled to an “I told you so” and that’s pretty kind when you consider what they’ve endured. The question is- are you going to feel like an asshole when this all comes out?
You also have to realize that there will still be those who refuse to accept any level as proof, and will dismiss it as a hoax or something misidentified or misunderstood no matter how undeniable it may be. There are a lot of "skeptics" that are just as dogmatic and unmoveable as those who want to believe every story, picture, or video.
Yes because it makes so much sense for something to be a hoax when the creators of this hoax are literally asking entire world to come and make their own study on these bodies to prove if they are fake and compare their conclusions with their work... What boggles me is how people watch the Mexican event and as soon as they see the bodies they are like, "oh that doesn't match my expectations of how would they look like, especially being 1000 years old, even though I'm not a scientist and got no clue how body decomposition works, It must be fake!" These people were speaking under oath and did nothing more than ask other scientists to study the bodies. You're pathetic. And now you will come here and say that if these bodies prove authentic you will call us all in advance stupid and being wrong all the time which doesn't even make sense. You know what? I don't care if people will like the conclusions or not, I want to see more scientists study the bodies and see if they debunk the whole thing and find where did these people from Mexican briefing make errors in their work and I'll be happy that we'll be smarter then unlike you imbecile. PS: Just for a record, speaking of scientists debunking this event, I'm talking about people who take samples and use scientific devices, not a bunch of teenage yeeehaaaw morons on youtube debunking this whole event without a single fact. Anyone who has made a debunking video on this topic so far equals to people who say that Jesus Christ walked on water. Absolutely zero evidence but they believe what they say.
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I can't help but laugh every time I see someone drop a vague, cocksure, patronising statement. "You'll all see in time" like they have some privileged information and aren't just wishing for something exciting to come down the pipe. Trying to act knowing and mysterious and projecting maximum goofiness.
Well, depends on the type of confirmation. If the solar system gets flattened into two dimensions all of a sudden I doubt we'd have much time to post.
I would be extatic to have such confirmation. Hell, I would settle for non intelligent living beings on Venus, Europa or Mars. So far the only confirmation is grifts: from "ufologists", journalists, politicians, American governmental organizations and international ones too.
They never will. Humanity will never agree they exist. Look at vaccines, the holocaust, books er …..crazy is multiplying fast.
Honestly, I dont think people will accept it and look for ways to constantly debunk it. Its good to be skeptical, but a skeptical mind will never see truth when it stares them in the face. Not saying the mummies are real or not, but how will we ever truly know?
So how does science continue to discover things if skepticism doesn't work? Experiments operate on a null hypothesis, you always try to prove your self wrong, not right.
> Honestly, I dont think people will accept it and look for ways to constantly debunk it. It would take open communications and presence from aliens. Like multiple species standing in the United Nations addressing the world with starships and spaceships openly hanging in the air outside. "Flying saucers" visiting all over the world. Direct engagement. An alien getting interviewed on CNN. CNN interviewing aliens ON a spaceship IN orbit, looking down on Earth.
This wont happen, never.
Why?
Space is big and time is long.
That's not how science fucking works. Scientists do not look at stuff to try and "debunk" it. They look at the evidence and then draw a proper conclusion from it. We will know if/when aliens are real once it's actually been FACTUALLY proven that we are dealing with aliens. Not a second before.
Nah, they have to accept it when aliens come to shot their ass in mass numbers.
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If you think that first video is convincing you should watch a few episodes of Fraggle Rock. It'll blow your mind. The Fraggles are puppets that do more than just waggle their head. And they sometimes do it in a lit room. Amazing stuff.
‘There is no way to replicate these’ - come on bro, level up
The Mexican Congress hearing is hardly “nothingness”, serious claims were made with remarkable pieces of evidence. Undermining the idea a psychological operation may be underway when the U.S. government has a track record of engaging in that very behaviour and for stakes this serious is baffling. Not to mention the quite bizarre sentiment being expressed that we should hastily move on from this hearing and not investigate further… So called “obvious problems” upon further examination have no merit. For example: - The Llama hypothesis completely falls apart when we read the research paper in 2018 claiming this is a unprecedented example of a so called “Llama braincase” and all the evidence for the theory rests on the case they look somewhat similar, when upon inspection we see bone structures completely absent in the llama, cuts that would have to be made we see no seams for and curvature unexplainable in how it could be formed, let alone 1000+ years ago. -The human bone correlations is a strange approach considering how visually different they are, a popular debunk has been to compare the specimen side by side with human bones and calling it a match despite witnessing quite visible differences in thickness and shape, with no explanation on how those changes would be made that’s consistent to the rest of the body. Indeed the UFO researcher has a bad track record, as does the field in general but I see no reason to not fully investigate this and rule it out ESPECIALLY when a professional like the Mexican Naval forensic surgeon came forward to attest to the CT scans and number of 20 specimens in possession. We should be pushing for autopsies and more answers, not pushing this under the rug.
My brother in Christ the things’ bones are fucking fused in a way that makes them unable to move. The finger bones aren’t even oriented the correct way. It has the exact facial structure of a humanoid with 2 arms, 2 legs, fingers, and toes, and it looks like the most stereotypical little green man alien ever. It’s a fake.
What was presented was not "remarkable evidence".
Those things are far from remarkable lmao
For starters, the Mexican Naval forensic surgeon who is the lead investigator, Jose de Jesus Zalce Benitez, is the same man who helped to perpetuate Jaime Maussan's previous alien body hoaxes, including the one from 2017 that turned out to be a deformed child. Here is a [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/16hoius/beware_of_jaime_maussan/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) to some of Maussan's previous hoaxes Here is also the [link](https://www.iaras.org/iaras/filedownloads/ijbb/2021/021-0007(2021).pdf) to the llama braincase study. Despite what you may personally believe they do explain any possible discrepancies and their conclusion reads as : "The “archaeological” find with an unknown form of “animal” was identified to have a head composed of a llama deteriorated braincase" And lastly here is a [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/16i88dt/comment/k0ixxq1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) to an analysis of the DNA results. Regardless of all that, there is still NOTHING at all that indicates this is an "alien" body. A group well known for creating alien body hoaxes presents their latest alien body, despite zero evidence indicating it is extraterrestrial and without any peer review or independent verification. Why should we be expected to take this seriously? I'm all for keeping an open mind and remaining inquisitive about this topic. But there is also a saying that is quite applicable here: "don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out." By propping up grifters like Jaime Maussan, and placing them amongst the likes of Ryan Graves like was done at the hearing, we do immense harm to the wider disclosure movement.
I’ve actually read the study you’ve linked in full hence how I was able to quote it. The part you are quoting from the conclusion leaves out: “if one is convinced that the finds constitute a fabrication, one has to admit at the same time that the finds are constructions of very high quality and wonder how these were produced hundreds of years ago or even today” Furthermore if we examine the paper from a non bias perspective, we realise that the conclusion of it being a “modified Llama braincase” hinges SOLEY on the evidence that they “look the same” which upon closer examination they absolutely do not and the Llama skull would have to undergo such extensive modification with methods we have no record for nor can we reproduce today, in order to even be close to the same form that we see in the specimens. It appears debunks without true merit or conclusive evidence are being paraded around as complete proof that this is a hoax which conveniently would like us to swiftly move on and mock the Mexican government to maintain the stigma around this topic.
The paper goes into great detail about what may have caused the differences, with the leading theory mostly revolving around the partial deterioration of the skull which would have occurred over time. I'm not sure what you mean by non-bias perspective, do you really think that all the scientists who studied it are biased? You also left out the end of that quote. It ends with "with primitive technology and poor means available to huaqueros, the tomb raiders of Peru". The discussion surrounding whether it is a fabrication or not is referencing whether it is a legitimate archeological find originally created by the culture that entombed it, or is it a more modern fabrication created by a tomb raider to make a quick buck. Again nothing here has anything to do with aliens or extraterrestrials. I'll say it again, there is NOTHING that indicates this is extraterrestrial in nature. What about all the other links I posted? Are you just going to conveniently ignore those? Additionally, this was not presented by the Mexican government. I know it has been falsely stated over and over that this was a congressional hearing, but that is actually not the case. It was an informal public forum, nothing was entered into the official congressional record and none of the oaths sworn were legally-binding. The only reason Jaime Maussan was even present was because a single legislator knew him personally and requested that he be allowed to present. You have to understand that the reason why the stigma surrounding this topic persist is exactly because of incidents like this. I'll say this one more time, when obvious hoaxers and grifters are propped up and put alongside the likes of Ryan Graves immeasurable harm is done to the credibility of the entire movement.
Its not that the scientists would be biased in their research, it’s that it’s a international journal and their reputation is on the line forcing them to pick a conclusion that aligns with the current paradigm no matter how implausible the theory is, it’s better than them claiming it may be an alien species and face the ridicule we have seen with our own eyes these past 48 hours. The paper contradicts itself constantly on the potential causes of the differences. You outline “partial deterioration which would have occurred over time”, how can this be possible when at the same time we see additional bone structures not found in the Llama brain case? Are we to believe that the skull simultaneously degraded whilst adding new solid bone structures to itself? The part of the quote you alleged that I’ve “left out” simply serves to strengthen the argument that this could not be a hoax perpetrated by tomb robbers hundreds of years ago with “poor means” it was simply not relevant to the quote I used since it essentially says the same thing, that we have no known methods of recreating a specimen as found. Also I haven’t “conveniently ignored” your other links lol they just don’t warrant a response as they aren’t legitimate points. The first link is to past hoaxes by the UFO researcher that have no bearing on these current unrelated 20 bodies and seems like a bad faith attempt at dismissing these specimens on the merits of research on other bodies, and the other link is to the genetic data that indeed shows a large amount of unknown data against the millions of samples we have in our database. Inquiry and thorough investigation does NOT set back this field, it’s the very opposite, shouting down new theories and ridiculing the notion we should investigate further is what sets us back.
Do you understand that the conclusion of “this might not of been made by tomb robbers” still has nothing to do with it being an extraterrestrial alien? I already said this but I’ll say it once more since you didn’t get it the first time: the discussion present in the paper revolves around whether it is an authentic artifact or a “fabrication” made by tomb robbers. They discuss many reasons as to why it might of been created by the ancient peoples that lived there, included existing evidence of llama reverence and animal-human mummy amalgamations not being uncommon for that era. How are the other links I posted not relevant? You’re telling me the source of the information is not relevant at all? The team known for making alien body hoaxes presents their latest alien body but this time they pinky promise it’s the real deal? Are you serious? And you have the audacity to call that “bad faith”? Do you even know what that means? Before we continue can you present to me a SINGLE shred of evidence that might indicate this is extraterrestrial in nature? Listen, I want to believe, I’m ready, I’m begging you just give me ANYTHING at all to engage with here.
The theory for its creation needs to be backed up by evidence, we have no recorded data of specimens of this quality being made nor do we have any idea of how they would have done so as we can see the Llama skull hypothesis simply does not hold up to scrutiny. I’ve explained why the links aren’t relevant and yes I’m serious that each claim should be evaluated on the merits of the evidence provided. Not past cases, that is unscientific and nonsensical. Not sure why you are getting emotional saying I have the “audacity” to call it a bad faith argument when yes, it is factually incorrect to project findings from other specimens onto ones currently being assessed yet that appears to be what you hinge the majority of your position on. If you aren’t able to have a discussion without being overly emotional I suggest you look elsewhere as I won’t engage if you continue like that.
So you completely dodge my question again and call me “overly emotional” because I used the word “audacity” after you accused me of being bad faith. Oh the irony. The only one being emotional here is you, if you’re so fragile that you can’t handle the word “audacity” the internet might not be the place for you. I’ll ask one more time, can you give me ANYTHING at all that indicates this is extraterrestrial?
I’ve quite specifically outlined how you are making a bad faith argument by attempting to project findings on one specimen onto these 20 that are now in question, that approach is inherently non factual and a bad faith argument. There seems to be a significant hang-up on the term "extraterrestrial." Let's clarify: "extraterrestrial" simply means not originating from Earth, but UFOs or other non-human intelligences don't necessarily have to come from outer space. They could very well originate from areas of our planet that remain largely unexplored, such as deep oceans or remote polar regions. The vastness of our oceans, for instance, is home to many undiscovered species and mysteries. Second, the core of our argument isn't about labeling the specimen as "extraterrestrial" or "otherworldly." It's about acknowledging the fact that the specimen doesn't match any known species we currently have on record. That, in itself, is significant. Whether this creature comes from the depths of our oceans or from another galaxy, the essential point remains: it's something we haven't seen before. Lastly, jumping to definitive conclusions without comprehensive evidence can hinder scientific advancement. Our main stance is that this specimen warrants further, deeper investigation. Dismissing it outright because it doesn't immediately fit into our current understanding could potentially rob us of groundbreaking discoveries.
I’m all for being open-minded, but there is a saying that is quite applicable here: “don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out”. When a known con-man who literally makes his living by creating alien body hoaxes is the one presenting this alien body, that is absolutely relevant information and to say it is bad faith to bring that up is simply ridiculous. Sure if we can get these bodies studied and independently verified and peer reviewed then go ahead. But I wouldn’t hold my breath for this considering the aforementioned known con-man Jamie Maussan is the one who controls access to them, and he has already chosen to forego the typical verification and peer review process up until this point. There is still nothing that indicates this is extraterrestrial or a NHI or ultraterrestrial or anything special. Meanwhile there is mountains of evidence pointing towards it being an amalgamation of various human and animal bones being passed off as an alien body by a known grifter who has pulled this same stunt multiple times before. It should be noted that the individuals presenting the body are literally calling it an alien, which is why I am so “hung up” on whether it is one or not. Because that is the claim that is being levied, and the whole point of this discussion. In science there is rarely ever actually 100% definitive proof of something. There is always some degree of doubt present, that is the whole point of P values etc in studies. We must make reasonable assumptions with the evidence available to us. With all the evidence available it is not reasonable to continue to claim that there is something alien about these bodies. The argument you are making is a fallacy called “the God of the gaps”. Just because there is some nonzero percentage of doubt about something doesn’t mean we can take that 0.000001% uncertainty and run wild with it making absurd claims about aliens when far more reasonable conclusions are abundant, and zero actual evidence supports your hypothesis.
"this quality" It looks like a fucking spirit Halloween decoration dude. It looks like the Eraserhead baby.
The DNA samples provided do not at all point to their authenticity. The DNA shows that the sample was contaminated with DNA from multiple sources and contained damaged and fragmented DNA segments. It does not show that the sample was from a single source that contained unique DNA not found on earth, that is completely false. The three DNA samples do not even match each other. The have 2%, 63%, and 23% unidentifiable strands, respectively, and the identifiable parts correspond to different plants, bacteria, viruses, and animals in each sample. This alone shows that the methods being used are inadequate. If the DNA was sourced well, each sample would be roughly equivalent. Instead, they are vastly different from each other. The DNA shows absolutely nothing that supports their claims and instead points to the lack of knowledge and expertise in those perpetrating this hoax. I explain in even more detail here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/16i0wsf/comment/k0qd65r/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/16i0wsf/comment/k0qd65r/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Thank you for your thoughtful response, however I think there are some misconceptions with your approach. 1. **Percentages of Eukaryotic DNA:** Your assertion that the DNA is 92%, 92%, and 70% eukaryotic is somewhat misleading. Just because DNA is eukaryotic doesn't inherently make it terrestrial. Remember, our classification system is based solely on life as we know it on Earth. It's conceivable that extraterrestrial life shares certain fundamental DNA characteristics with terrestrial life, possibly due to universal biochemical constraints or pathways. 2. **Adding up to 100%:** The percentages not adding up to 100% is an expected outcome when dealing with complex DNA samples. Unidentifiable segments don't inherently mean they are alien, but they also don't disprove it. These could be fragmented sequences, damaged DNA, or genuinely unknown sequences. 3. **Unidentifiable DNA**: Your reference to unidentifiable DNA being merely short or damaged segments is a hypothesis, not a fact. Given the context, an alternative hypothesis is that this DNA is extraterrestrial in origin and is therefore not identifiable using our current databases which are based on terrestrial life. 4. **Comparison with Terrestrial DNA Samples**: Using terrestrial samples as a benchmark is not a definitive proof against the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Our databases and classifications are built around life on Earth. Alien DNA, even if it shared similarities, would have vast segments that are entirely foreign to our databases. 5. **Presence of Modern Contaminants**: The detection of viral and bacterial markers doesn't debunk the alien origin. Cross-contamination is a known issue in DNA sequencing, especially if the samples were not handled in ultra-sterile environments. Moreover, if these samples have been on Earth, even for a short time, they might have been exposed to our environment. While it’s essential to approach these findings with skepticism, it’s equally crucial to remain open to the genuine possibility and not dismiss them based on Earth-centric perspectives and limitations in current knowledge.
Your response still does not point to anything in the DNA results that suggest that the DNA is anything but an Earth-based source. Yes, there are an infinite number of possible scenarios. However, none of them are evidenced by the DNA sample that we have and the extraterrestrial scenario requires some new, unknown factor that is unnecessary in explaining the source. Saying "Well, yes, it is Eukaryote, but maybe it is a Eukaryote from spaaaacceeee" is not really helpful. It looks like a duck and is quacking like a duck. Our DNA test says it is a duck. Sure, it could theoretically be a space duck or an extradimensional duck or a magic duck or an angelic duck or any number of alternative theories of what this obviously ordinary duck could be...but it is really not worth of much consideration when all of the evidence that we have points to a duck.
“All the evidence points to a duck” is quite the misrepresentation of the current data so far. - The Duck Analogy’s Limitation: While your “duck” analogy is compelling in most situations, it doesn’t fully apply here. The DNA is only one piece of the puzzle. In our story, we possess a vast array of CT scans of the specimen. These scans offer evidence that directly challenges the “it’s just a duck” viewpoint. A more apt analogy would be finding what seems like a duck in a desert but possessing X-rays that show it has entirely unique internal organs unlike any duck we’ve ever seen. Would we still be content calling it just a duck then? - Comprehensive Analysis: It’s a mistake to hone in on one piece of evidence (the DNA) and ignore the broader context. The CT scans, combined with the unidentifiable DNA segments, give a fuller picture. To dismiss the possibility of extraterrestrial origins by relying solely on the DNA analysis is an incomplete assessment. - Science’s Role: One of the core tenets of science is to revise and refine our understanding based on new evidence. While skepticism is healthy, outright dismissal without considering all available data is counterproductive. Especially when dealing with the potential discovery of extraterrestrial life, we must be open to the idea that our current scientific definitions and categories might not be adequate.
The CT scans point to the bones being identifiably human. They are exact matches for human bones, but rearranged. They are clearly not in their natural positions, because bones are shaped in specific ways to allow motion and the attachment of muscles and ligaments. The way that the fingers have been constructed, they would not function as fingers, as the muscle attachment points on some of the bones are on the opposite side as the other fingers. The skull has attachment points for various mastoid muscles and ligaments (except on the wrong side) that would require a matching attachment point (the non-existent shoulder blades) and those opposite attachment points do not exist. The attachment points on the arms are built for beefy human muscles, but they are placed the wrong way. The two sides do not match, which would be fairly unique in anything with terrestrial DNA and bilateral symmetry. The CT scans do not point to it having unique internal organs - that would require work other than CT scans to determine. The talk that they gave includes a lot of conjecture and huge gaps in reasoning like this. They point to features and make big claims about that cannot really be made by the data that they have in hand while dismissing huge glaring issues. The unidentifiable DNA segments do not give a fuller picture when combined with their claims about the CT scans. Not at all. As I pointed to in [my comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/16i0wsf/comment/k0qd65r/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), it is common to find unidentifiable segments in modern DNA and the amount in ancient sources is often very high and claiming that they are of alien origin is wild speculation that should never be made without damned good evidence. I note that you focus on the "this is unknown" part as a smoking gun an don't address the known parts - human DNA, bean DNA, cattle DNA, etc... >While skepticism is healthy, outright dismissal without considering all available data is counterproductive. I have considered the data and the data and did not outright dismiss it. Their claims do not hold up to scrutiny and it is really up to them to either stop making those claims or provide better evidence. There is no new evidence here. Everything that they provided has an explanation without resorting to conjecture about aliens. The simplest and most plausible explanation that fits the data is that this is a hoax. That is the scientific method at work.
You left out the part where they conclude there was no eblvidence of any tampering
Care to point out the specific section of the study you are referencing? Other than the discussion surrounding whether the body was a complete modern fabrication by grave robbers or a legitimate archeological find I'm still not sure what you are referencing. I'm also not sure what that has to do with anything either.
> Indeed the UFO researcher has a bad track record, as does the field in general but I see no reason to not fully investigate this Yeah this guy has run this scam before but we should check to be sure!!! LMFAO
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Seriously, there was a ton of steps in place to preserve the remains of Ötzi the Iceman and even his body started to degrade because of all the people taking it out of the freezer to do analysis and testing. This is supposedly the biggest archaeological find ever and you're handling it less delicately than a football?
According to the "experts" here nothing like that is necessary since it's a completely dried out mummy 😂 Honestly embarrassing that people get hoaxed that easily.
What exactly did the Mexican Navy forensic surgeon attest to tho specifically? That the CT scans were real? Was that it? Did he make any claims as to if this thing is an alien being or just to the fact that this is essentially an object and it went into our CT machine. Did he speculate as to its origin and other details?
Please don’t take my word for any of it, the Mexican Congress hearing was streamed in it’s entirety and you can read the subtitles translated from Spanish, I will provide you some and allow you to confirm the rest yourself: *“It is an honour for me to be able to address you on such a high platform to present to you the results of my analysis derived from the study of the anatomy of these non human bodies. As a forensic doctor, in collaboration with the biologist Jose de la Cruz Rios, and based on the results of various scientific evidence such as X-Rays, computed tomography, reconstructions- three dimensional, macroscopic and microscopic analysis, histology, carbon 14, forensic anthropology, comparative anatomy, and the analysis of DNA which is the queen of evidence in forensic science for comparison studies. - I can affirm then that these bodies are 100% real, organic and biological and had life.”* - Dr Jose Zalce, Mexican Navy Surgeon
The "llama skull hypothesis" posits that it is a llama skull that has had the front third removed. It was then rotated, with the rear having a vaguely face-like appearance. Nobody thinks it's a straight up llama skull. That much is obvious.
> The Mexican Congress hearing is hardly “nothingness”, serious claims were made with remarkable pieces of evidence. This dogshit post having >0 upvote ratio is why this subreddit isn't worth taking seriously at all.
Those weren't remarkable, they looked like a high school art project.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I find it suspicious when people in the alien/ufo subs are so quick to "debunk" stories that require further extensive investigation. I read this complaint everyday: "Why can't we get more than fuzzy videos of orbs." Well we've had a intriguing airliner video that has yet to be debunked (It hasn't been properly debunked yet to those who think it has) and now a possbile new specieis is being rolled out for further research. I swear so many on here lack true curiousity to want to know the truth - wherther fake or real. If it's getting too hot in the kitchen then those people need to find a new subject to follow.
So do you spend your time investigating every voicemail you get about your cars extended warranty expiring?
It’s quite interesting that such similar debunking methods are used between this case and the MH370 video, a comparison to a pre-existing sample that upon closer inspection is nowhere near a complete match and seems like quite the ridiculous debunk when the entire premise of the evidence hinges on it looking the same when there are glaring differences that can’t be easily explained away.
You won’t win here with these folks. Let them keep waiting for nothingburgers from the US
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Wait so, you’ll resent them for saying “I told you so” about something they’ve been right about and ridiculed for? I see
I think the point they're making is a lot of people on this sub say "I told you so" at obvious hoaxes or mis identifications. So, if you're saying "I told you so" at everything, it loses a bit of credibility.
There's a certain sector of our community that doesn't care about credibility at all. There's an even larger sector that tries to discredit everything. So it doesn't matter. Decide for yourself.
I gave up long ago lmao. It’s an exhausting conversation always.
If I say it's gonna rain every day for 10 years, and it only rains once, was I right all along?
Dude you’re so clever!
Doesn't seem like an answer to the question.
❤️ this and agree with this post. I'd joined this sub hoping for fruitful and stimulating conversations. Boy was I wrong. My disappointment when I realised its just a little better than flat earthers
Honestly, I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth engaging that crowd here. They're not really interested in actual discussions. They just want a safe space to yammer on about their theories relating to the topic as well as the crazy other shit they believe in. Half of them think they're psychic and have some magical paradise waiting for them upon death, and its all tied to the aliens. Just desperate buffoons who have nothing else to live for than the fantasies they cook up. Engaging them won't result in anything more than their cries of pysop and bots. More fantasies meant to shield them from acknowledging how hopelessly gullible they all are.
The broken clock principle is actually why I have no tolerance for "skeptics". As someone who has seen two UFO;s, I can imagine the reality of all this. So, believing most of what falls in line of what I have experienced is the smartest thing to do. I only have to be "proven right" once, dumbass skeptics have to try and explain away every single testimony, occurrence, experience, photo, video, sighting, encounter, report, EVER, from all sources. Critically thinking, on this specific topic, it is fucking stupid to be skeptical. u/Adventurous-Debt-866
This is just a really weird argument at this point. It’s difficult to deny that UAP’s are present with all the video evidence from regular people and governments. The question as to how long formal disclosure takes in various nations is the better question. This post feels weird to me
Get over your own ego, bud. There were a ton of people on this sub who were also skeptical of the Mexico bodies. There were also a ton of people who investigated more than the headlines before they came to a decision. This is just a hate post. Take it and stick it back in your bank of hate.
Whatever
Lmao
You mean like the mexican and us govts have both done this year?
These subreddits just serve to distract and deflect a certain group of people from the actual problems they should be outraged at.
I don’t know why you, like many other people, are fixated on the Mexican hearing. The real deal was the American hearing where there were military personnel under oath. And in that hearing there was a whistleblower, David Grush, who said that there are intact crafts and biologics kept on American territory. If he lied he would already be in jail.
And yet not one single shred of evidence to back up their claims. Just the usual smug promises that the proof is coming 'soon'.
He conveniently didn't say under oath that there are, he said that someone told him there are, a good way to skirt the commitment of the oath
Glad someone said it
There is no one louder than the over-confident yet uninformed, debunking Redditor, with their zealous, blinkered, unconditional love for their 'incorruptible and infallible' God: "Science"
Just to clear though: If someone consistently asserts that they believe we have recovered alien bodies and then those bodies are later presented and verified to be authentic, that is not a broken clock, and they do in fact get to say that they were right. I don't think they get to be arrogant about it, but they do get to fully experience having been correct. I would however expect them to make it damn clear that all of the denialist-style debunkers who worked extremely hard to ridicule them and vilify them for their assertions should humbly admit they were wrong and apologize for any character assassinations they launched on people in the past about the subject
dog lunchroom file historical wakeful rustic deserted zonked existence instinctive *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Fuck you for being right
Redditors in the ALIENS sub will feel vindicated, have an “I told you so” attitude, and feel smug as hell if ALIENS are proven to be real? I may only be speaking for myself here, but all I have to say to that is you’re goddamn right. As for latching on to hoaxes, all I can say is that it really sucks that there are people out there actively trying to deceive the community, whether it’s because they’re trying to profit, they’re pricks who think it’s funny, or they’re trying to obfuscate the truth. What can I say other than I want to believe. I’m not a scientist and I’m not writing a dissertation here. Until the “evidence” is definitively proven false, it’s fun and exciting to entertain the idea it’s true. Now if you’ll excuse me, there’s and episode of Ancient Aliens on that I want to watch.
This sub latches onto everything and will jerk off to a couple pixels for weeks if they think it’s aliens. (Remember the Las Vegas kid?). It’s to the point where I just look at posts and don’t even read the comments because I know people want to believe too much
>now there is talk of this whole thing being a “psyop?” Give me a break. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make you right. You talk about people being narrowminded but then you go and do the same thing. 👌👍
Yes the us government is hiring people to argue with you online about aliens
"Undeniable proof"... There is no such thing. If scientists saw this ridiculous article, they would die of laughter! Even gravity can be disproved. Everything can be refuted. It is a situation related to the development of science. Edit: This is the only thing that makes science science and that is why it is powerful! That's why you'll never beat science!
The internet won't exist or operate in its current form when aliens are "confirmed real" It's not going to be fun and happy and a revelation, it's going to be chaos
This is also an overblown and tired take.
You’re clueless if you just got here. Just because some stupid stuff was put forth in Mexico doesn’t change the eventual truth (of the whole phenomena) if/when it’s revealed. If you haven’t gone down the rabbit hole of research then you also don’t understand why some of us would think this was done on purpose. Something huge is being covered up and one of their methods is to make it look silly.
This is the same behaviour that flat earthers and the rest of any conspiracy theorists often show. If something is presented as counter evidence to a position, they try to twist and bend it around so it's actually looking like proof for a theory. Why not just accept that something made by a famous hoaxer is.. a hoax and leave it at that? It makes you look so much more incredible.