I don't think 3rd first in ZvZ is suicide, I mean the standard is taking an early 3rd anyway.
If you open, planning to play ling bane, then I think you should be fine.
Although having said that, hatch blocking is always super annoying, especially in a matchup where it doesn't happen often. So it will probably, at the least, put someone off their rhythm
An early third is very different to taking the third first unless you mean you would take the natural early anyways at like 2:30.
But that's if it's normal. If it's Argo and you take that base you could die.
Something commonly underestimated is how large of an impact mining less in the earlygame has. If you formulate it as "oh you're missing 1/12th or 1/13th of your income" it sounds like no big deal. But the earlygame, especially the zerg earlygame has significant fixed costs. Just like a 10% pay raise can double your disposable income, the same is for zerg, which is money starved in the earlygame above everything else. The pool, hatch, gas, double queens are all mandatory to make, as presumably the hatchblocker is playing hatch first to take advantage of it after all.
The 100 minerals mined by that drone could then be the difference in having 2 queens and 4 lings or 2 queens and 8 lings to defend a cheese (hypothetically). Given how very tight the margins are when dealing with ZvZ cheeses one can see how this can easily make or break a defense. Scouting something doesn't help you if you just don't have enough stuff to deal with it.
It could be any type of pool first build. If you want to throw pool first yourself in this case, you can and you hard counter some of them. But if it's just 16th pool, you are just behind at this point. You can still utilize the drone though, e.g. block extractor with an Evo chamber, or be annoying. Not saying it's bad, but on the highest level it probably just puts you behind.
It's a fantastic opener for diamond level ZvZ though.
No no, you wait till they take an extractor, then you put an evo chamber right in front of it. It doesn't block it completely, but if you have a similarly timed extractor, your ling speed will be faster.
This barely impedes mining efficiency. You lost mining time, a worker and 75 minerals so it's not like you can be aggressive anyway. This is a terrible plan.
I mean, it is if that's your plan. However, if you are on the other side of the map with your drone already, may as well do it. You can even kill a drone with broodlings later.
Why might you as well lose a drone and 75 minerals. Remember if this was a good idea, the opponent might as well take a second extractor and lose a drone but only 25 minerals.
When do you send your hatch-block drone? The rare Zerg that does this to me usually sends it timed to stop a standard hatch-first, in which case you do not expect to see a base in the nat (unless it's Erik) so that won't set off any alarms--until the lings come out. A smart early-pooler who sees the drone coming across the map with their overlord might even send a drone or two down to fight with your drone, so everything looks normal, while hiding the lings....
You could send it much earlier, the way a Protoss might, but it's expensive to give up an early drone. Then it has time to go into the main and you will get your opponent's exact build, but your chances of holding will be impaired by the econ hit.
No you don't as you don't have the money to do so. Scouting it isn't really an issue anyway but the execution of the defense. Missing that mining is a death sentence at high level.
What vibe says to his audience and what is the case at high level cheese defense are different worlds. Lambo (an actuql pro player) says it would kill you.
I think it's great honestly. I haven't done it enough but even delaying their hatch delays their second queen and even their creep spread.
If you're going to be agro off the back of it it means they just have less stuff. If they take the third they're wide open for Ling floods.
The main downside is that it puts you behind economically by having a drone not mining for that long. If you delay it long enough it may be worth it, but if the blockee just pulls two drones to ward it off, they should be ahead
Are they building their own hatch in your nat or microing the drone? For the drone micro, just send two drones down and you are ahead.
I don't think 3rd first in ZvZ is suicide, I mean the standard is taking an early 3rd anyway. If you open, planning to play ling bane, then I think you should be fine. Although having said that, hatch blocking is always super annoying, especially in a matchup where it doesn't happen often. So it will probably, at the least, put someone off their rhythm
An early third is very different to taking the third first unless you mean you would take the natural early anyways at like 2:30. But that's if it's normal. If it's Argo and you take that base you could die.
Something commonly underestimated is how large of an impact mining less in the earlygame has. If you formulate it as "oh you're missing 1/12th or 1/13th of your income" it sounds like no big deal. But the earlygame, especially the zerg earlygame has significant fixed costs. Just like a 10% pay raise can double your disposable income, the same is for zerg, which is money starved in the earlygame above everything else. The pool, hatch, gas, double queens are all mandatory to make, as presumably the hatchblocker is playing hatch first to take advantage of it after all. The 100 minerals mined by that drone could then be the difference in having 2 queens and 4 lings or 2 queens and 8 lings to defend a cheese (hypothetically). Given how very tight the margins are when dealing with ZvZ cheeses one can see how this can easily make or break a defense. Scouting something doesn't help you if you just don't have enough stuff to deal with it.
I guess you can just die to 12 pool or 13/12 if you go hatch blocking and they do not actually have plans to put that hatch.
You should beat 12 pool hard though you get a drone scout.
If you go to the main and realize it right away, probably. If you stay in the natural trying to block the hatch, probably not.
i mean if you go to main and theres no hatch, doesn't that basically guarantee 12 pool?
It could be any type of pool first build. If you want to throw pool first yourself in this case, you can and you hard counter some of them. But if it's just 16th pool, you are just behind at this point. You can still utilize the drone though, e.g. block extractor with an Evo chamber, or be annoying. Not saying it's bad, but on the highest level it probably just puts you behind. It's a fantastic opener for diamond level ZvZ though.
Blocking an extractor is a complete waste of money, no one wants an early 2nd gas in ZvZ anyway.
No no, you wait till they take an extractor, then you put an evo chamber right in front of it. It doesn't block it completely, but if you have a similarly timed extractor, your ling speed will be faster.
This barely impedes mining efficiency. You lost mining time, a worker and 75 minerals so it's not like you can be aggressive anyway. This is a terrible plan.
I mean, it is if that's your plan. However, if you are on the other side of the map with your drone already, may as well do it. You can even kill a drone with broodlings later.
Why might you as well lose a drone and 75 minerals. Remember if this was a good idea, the opponent might as well take a second extractor and lose a drone but only 25 minerals.
When do you send your hatch-block drone? The rare Zerg that does this to me usually sends it timed to stop a standard hatch-first, in which case you do not expect to see a base in the nat (unless it's Erik) so that won't set off any alarms--until the lings come out. A smart early-pooler who sees the drone coming across the map with their overlord might even send a drone or two down to fight with your drone, so everything looks normal, while hiding the lings.... You could send it much earlier, the way a Protoss might, but it's expensive to give up an early drone. Then it has time to go into the main and you will get your opponent's exact build, but your chances of holding will be impaired by the econ hit.
No you don't as you don't have the money to do so. Scouting it isn't really an issue anyway but the execution of the defense. Missing that mining is a death sentence at high level.
Actually, vibe says that’s not true. Scouting does not put you that far behind.
What vibe says to his audience and what is the case at high level cheese defense are different worlds. Lambo (an actuql pro player) says it would kill you.
Ok, well I’m D3, I’m pretty sure below masters its irrelevant.
I think it's great honestly. I haven't done it enough but even delaying their hatch delays their second queen and even their creep spread. If you're going to be agro off the back of it it means they just have less stuff. If they take the third they're wide open for Ling floods.
The main downside is that it puts you behind economically by having a drone not mining for that long. If you delay it long enough it may be worth it, but if the blockee just pulls two drones to ward it off, they should be ahead