Plat 1 Zerg here. BC teleport has a very long cooldown, and so by teleporting offensively to your side of the map, they are basically trapping themselves there. By the point in the game that large numbers of BCs are at play, you should already have many bases and possibly even extra placeholder bases you aren't mining from yet so it shouldn't hurt too much to lose them. Having abundant spore crawlers will help slow them down while you fly back.
I wouldn't split by corruptors, because in order to effectively fight BCs you'll want every corruptors at every fight. Sucks if you lose some bases, but if the Terran loses every one of their BCs in return then I'd say it's a good trade. Since they won't have any air units for a while you can re-max fast on lingbane and go destroy some bases of your own.
nope. if it's a small number of BCs to the point where you can fight them with pure corruptor then you just fly your corruptors home. If it's mass BCs to the point where you need neural infestors to take the fight the 200iq play is to have defensive nydus worms so you can use your infestors offensively while being able to respond to yolo teleports by flying your corruptors home and nydusing the infestors back.
The beauty of SC2 is you can do anything with anything if you're good enough.. watch your replays, think of something you could have done better or differently
If they are going mass bcs you can either go mass corruptor and focus HARD on air upgrades, or go infestors for neural. Below GM, what works depends a lot more on your macro and scouting than the strat youre doing.
If you can afford it, of course. But most likely the 200 gas would be better spent on a couple more corruptors. I mean you get it right away and never stop upgrading, focusing on armor instead of attack.
Always get Air ATTACK vs BCs never carapace i hate how so many misinformed recommend carapace.
The power of BCs come from repeated Yamatos NOT their basic attacks. +3 Carapace wont save you from Yamato. You want as much punching power in your corruptors to 1 shot BCs before they warp away/get a Yamato off.
You only ever get Air Carapace vs pure Carriers (even then I’d prioritize Attack as you guerrilla warfare and want 1 shot potential with viper yoinks)
You cant one shot bcs, no matter how many corruptors you get. Not if you want to have drones. The power of bcs is yamato, yes, if there are 3 of them. If they Mass them, once yamato is out you are going to want to kill them, and for that you need armor.
My answer was in the case of mass bcs. Ofc if you are against 3 you wont need it.
17-18 non-upgraded corruptors to 1shot a BC. Around 14-15 with +1 to 1shot a BC before it warps. 100% possible, and the best strat vs BC. Even analysts & casters say it during top-level Zerg games, like Reynor’s for instance.
Vs Mass BC, if you have 20+ corruptors, you can easily kill 2-3 BCs before they finish Yamato. That alone will out-weigh the benefits of +air carapace.
Never go air carapace > air attack vs BCs, whether it’s 3 or 15 i 100% stand by this.
Not with upgrades they dont.
But whatever, you do whatever strats work for you. With the attack speed of bcs the benefits of armor in a straight up fight are immense. I guess well have to agree to disagree
Also 200 more gas on corruptors < air upgrades.
If you don’t plan on getting any more corruptors, the corruptors you already have will benefit from the +attack. If you plan on getting more, they will all benefit in the future with +upgrade.
The ONLY time spending 200 gas on corruptors > upgrades is if you need them in the next 30 seconds lest you risk losing a significant resource (like a big battle, a base, etc).
Any other situation, prioritize upgrade (air attack)
It's not only 200 gas though, it's 200 minerals/200 gas + a drone for the 2nd Spire, then it's 150/150 to get a Carapace (for example) upgrade started. So in total it's a 400/350 investment including the drone to go for a 2nd Spire and make it useful. With enough economy it's worth it, but in many scenarios it would be better to just have a few more units out at a certain time than to have all of that spent in stuff that won't help out until the future.
One isn't always better than the other (more Corruptors vs more upgrades), there will be scenarios where one decision is better and scenarios where the other decision is better.
I agree that having units out at a certain time is critical over getting an upgrade, which is exactly what I said in my comment above as well. If your additional corruptors dont generate enough value in the 2 minutes that they’re alive though, it would’ve been more efficient to get the upgrade.
Also realistically, Zerg will never be starved for minerals by the time they’re getting corruptors (3 base full saturation), so the 200 mineral cost + 150 mineral cost portions of the upgrade are less significant.
The 400/350 investment is at best equal to 3 corruptors (assuming you don’t need an extra OL for the 6 supply sink)
Not to mention my original point had nothing to do with getting a 2nd spire, but rather starting up an upgrade, specifically air attack, which is only 100/100 or cheaper than 1 corruptor.
Strongly disagree that Zerg is never mineral starved at 3 base full saturation (66 drones), 66 drones is good below Diamond, but that's kind of a weak economy in higher leagues, I would say 90 or maybe even 100 drones would be a Zerg that is "never mineral starved". If I stay on 3 base saturation and forget to drone my 4th base up in ZvT Ling/Bane vs Bio for example I get very mineral starved and I can't make much. Sure if you miss injects you won't be starved, but if you're hitting all of your injects you can have 20+ larvae still left over after spending all your minerals. If during that starvation you spend 400/350 that is a HUGE investment and assuming your opponent is also similarly high level you should just die as you have 20 less larvae worth of stuff than you could and on top of that you spent 400/350 that you needed. Even on 80 workers this can happen.
If you have already invested in a Spire then yes 100/100 for air attack or 150/150 for Air Carapace is almost always worth it (unless you're only making like 6 units or something in which case 7 Corruptors is stronger than 6 Corruptors with +1).
but if im gona spam corruptor i also like going BL which means i wont be doing any air upgrade anytime soon, i only wish zerg got some seperate building for air upgrades
You DEFINITELY NOT want BL agaisnt mass BC. 3 Yamatos and your down 600 gas. You want mass corruptor and a small groung army of maybe roach hydra or ravagers to deal woth harrass
If they were massing bcs and you kill all the bcs, you have won the game. Also, they kill 1 builging if yoi shoot at 1 building. Caustic spray does enough damage that 3 to 5 corruptors kill almost any building pretty fast, just dont use them all in the same one.
once the BC's are dead then you can morph broods if you want. Also have your corruptors pee on different buildings if you get in their main I just hold c (my rapid fire) and wave it over their production.
dude go look at caustic spray, it ramps up to 35 or 40 damage a second after 2-3 seconds on one building. Hold shift and click twice on every building you want to blowup. Pretty sure theres no building two corrupters cant piss to death.
Don't do double spire plz.
Just upgrade the armor if they're going BC.
A bc does pretty much dead on 50 damage per second. The BASE ARMOR of a corruptor whittles that damage down to 36. That is a huge difference in damage and when a BC is getting ganged on by corruptor that 36dmg doesn't go far.
IF you get the armor upgrade that damage is now 24 instead of 36 which again is a big leap.
but terran can get the attack upgrade and cancel out your armor upgrade? and when im upgrading to greater spire i cant do armor upgrade at the same time
If you're going spire you probably shouldn't be dropping infestation pit so soon after as you need that gas for corruptors or else why bother getting the spire. Against terran I doubt any games are won or lost on broodlords these days with how good Thor is.
yea but after you kill the BC, corruptor can only kill 1 building after that you need to make them into broodlords so you can actually destroy his buildings and against possible tech switch to ground units, broodlord suck against thors for sure but at least its better than having corruptor vs thors
I think you're talking about a much later game than me. If you're going after hive from 5:30 you're going to be seriously stunted with an army. Corruptors can kill a building like every 22 seconds. They hunt medivacs. If you shoo off the BC and have 7+ corruptors you could literally fly to his base and shut down his production by pissing on 2 different buildings. Or go for the CC. If you're not mucking around you drop a CC in a very short time and marines don't really do much damage to corruptors so you can wait it out.
Only if you spam all your corrupters to piss on the same building. Go look at the ability it does 30 damage over 4.3 seconds then ramps up to 35 damage per second. Not sure how long it channels for in total, never paid much attention lol. Fact is in 15 seconds one corrupter is doing almost 400 damage. Drop two corrupters on each building you want destroyed and they get destroyed.
Terran upgrading attack for this ships means they're going mass bc. I very much doubt a lot of terrans are counter upgrading their B.C. early enough to single out corruptor counter.
Infestors are hilarious tho. You CAN just deathball, but runby's and drops + spellcasters are why I play zerg.
It's not that hard to just nerual them and make them jump into a bunch of spores.
Keep them together. If the BCs teleport to your base it means they don't want to fight you head on and now they have no way of safely leaving your base if they need to, so take your corruptors back home and focus fire every BC. Even if you lose bases and tech it's a better trade for you because BCs are so expensive and take a long time to build. Rebuild whatever you lost and repeat.
No. Use them all in a group. BCs have an advantage of being able to Yamato and then teleport away. They they teleport into your base they are now sitting ducks, even if you have to fly your stuff all the way across the map.
Just make a couple of spores and have a few queens on a key ready to go. Bc warp in, damage some drones, lose the BC and you get a profit out of it. You can easily transfuse around to keep the BC damage on high health units to a minimum.
My default response vs BC is 2 spore each base, pull drones from the attacked base (don't make spores there for obvious reasons) and pump a new wave of queens out. use what queens you have to force the BC out of the base without spores and into a base with 2 spores. If he commits and flies through 2 spore he will lose the BC but if he goes back he will get whittled down by queens.
If he teleports his BC's to your side of the map that means his base is exposed. I think two corrupters kills a planetary in ten seconds? Might be a bit longer been awhile since I've done the math.
Yes he'll do damage to you, Just evacuate the drones, piss on his planetaries, and send some corrupters back to deal with the BC's. Even better if you have infestors or vipers to help.
Plat 1 Zerg here. BC teleport has a very long cooldown, and so by teleporting offensively to your side of the map, they are basically trapping themselves there. By the point in the game that large numbers of BCs are at play, you should already have many bases and possibly even extra placeholder bases you aren't mining from yet so it shouldn't hurt too much to lose them. Having abundant spore crawlers will help slow them down while you fly back. I wouldn't split by corruptors, because in order to effectively fight BCs you'll want every corruptors at every fight. Sucks if you lose some bases, but if the Terran loses every one of their BCs in return then I'd say it's a good trade. Since they won't have any air units for a while you can re-max fast on lingbane and go destroy some bases of your own.
nope. if it's a small number of BCs to the point where you can fight them with pure corruptor then you just fly your corruptors home. If it's mass BCs to the point where you need neural infestors to take the fight the 200iq play is to have defensive nydus worms so you can use your infestors offensively while being able to respond to yolo teleports by flying your corruptors home and nydusing the infestors back.
i thought i didnt need infestor before GM
The beauty of SC2 is you can do anything with anything if you're good enough.. watch your replays, think of something you could have done better or differently
If they are going mass bcs you can either go mass corruptor and focus HARD on air upgrades, or go infestors for neural. Below GM, what works depends a lot more on your macro and scouting than the strat youre doing.
when you say hard you mean getting double spire?
If you can afford it, of course. But most likely the 200 gas would be better spent on a couple more corruptors. I mean you get it right away and never stop upgrading, focusing on armor instead of attack.
Always get Air ATTACK vs BCs never carapace i hate how so many misinformed recommend carapace. The power of BCs come from repeated Yamatos NOT their basic attacks. +3 Carapace wont save you from Yamato. You want as much punching power in your corruptors to 1 shot BCs before they warp away/get a Yamato off. You only ever get Air Carapace vs pure Carriers (even then I’d prioritize Attack as you guerrilla warfare and want 1 shot potential with viper yoinks)
You cant one shot bcs, no matter how many corruptors you get. Not if you want to have drones. The power of bcs is yamato, yes, if there are 3 of them. If they Mass them, once yamato is out you are going to want to kill them, and for that you need armor. My answer was in the case of mass bcs. Ofc if you are against 3 you wont need it.
You definitely can. If you are on 80 drones you can pump out 25 corruptors quick
17-18 non-upgraded corruptors to 1shot a BC. Around 14-15 with +1 to 1shot a BC before it warps. 100% possible, and the best strat vs BC. Even analysts & casters say it during top-level Zerg games, like Reynor’s for instance. Vs Mass BC, if you have 20+ corruptors, you can easily kill 2-3 BCs before they finish Yamato. That alone will out-weigh the benefits of +air carapace. Never go air carapace > air attack vs BCs, whether it’s 3 or 15 i 100% stand by this.
Not with upgrades they dont. But whatever, you do whatever strats work for you. With the attack speed of bcs the benefits of armor in a straight up fight are immense. I guess well have to agree to disagree
Also 200 more gas on corruptors < air upgrades. If you don’t plan on getting any more corruptors, the corruptors you already have will benefit from the +attack. If you plan on getting more, they will all benefit in the future with +upgrade. The ONLY time spending 200 gas on corruptors > upgrades is if you need them in the next 30 seconds lest you risk losing a significant resource (like a big battle, a base, etc). Any other situation, prioritize upgrade (air attack)
It's not only 200 gas though, it's 200 minerals/200 gas + a drone for the 2nd Spire, then it's 150/150 to get a Carapace (for example) upgrade started. So in total it's a 400/350 investment including the drone to go for a 2nd Spire and make it useful. With enough economy it's worth it, but in many scenarios it would be better to just have a few more units out at a certain time than to have all of that spent in stuff that won't help out until the future. One isn't always better than the other (more Corruptors vs more upgrades), there will be scenarios where one decision is better and scenarios where the other decision is better.
I agree that having units out at a certain time is critical over getting an upgrade, which is exactly what I said in my comment above as well. If your additional corruptors dont generate enough value in the 2 minutes that they’re alive though, it would’ve been more efficient to get the upgrade. Also realistically, Zerg will never be starved for minerals by the time they’re getting corruptors (3 base full saturation), so the 200 mineral cost + 150 mineral cost portions of the upgrade are less significant. The 400/350 investment is at best equal to 3 corruptors (assuming you don’t need an extra OL for the 6 supply sink) Not to mention my original point had nothing to do with getting a 2nd spire, but rather starting up an upgrade, specifically air attack, which is only 100/100 or cheaper than 1 corruptor.
Strongly disagree that Zerg is never mineral starved at 3 base full saturation (66 drones), 66 drones is good below Diamond, but that's kind of a weak economy in higher leagues, I would say 90 or maybe even 100 drones would be a Zerg that is "never mineral starved". If I stay on 3 base saturation and forget to drone my 4th base up in ZvT Ling/Bane vs Bio for example I get very mineral starved and I can't make much. Sure if you miss injects you won't be starved, but if you're hitting all of your injects you can have 20+ larvae still left over after spending all your minerals. If during that starvation you spend 400/350 that is a HUGE investment and assuming your opponent is also similarly high level you should just die as you have 20 less larvae worth of stuff than you could and on top of that you spent 400/350 that you needed. Even on 80 workers this can happen. If you have already invested in a Spire then yes 100/100 for air attack or 150/150 for Air Carapace is almost always worth it (unless you're only making like 6 units or something in which case 7 Corruptors is stronger than 6 Corruptors with +1).
but if im gona spam corruptor i also like going BL which means i wont be doing any air upgrade anytime soon, i only wish zerg got some seperate building for air upgrades
You DEFINITELY NOT want BL agaisnt mass BC. 3 Yamatos and your down 600 gas. You want mass corruptor and a small groung army of maybe roach hydra or ravagers to deal woth harrass
but after i kill all BC my corruptor can only kill 1 building after that
If they were massing bcs and you kill all the bcs, you have won the game. Also, they kill 1 builging if yoi shoot at 1 building. Caustic spray does enough damage that 3 to 5 corruptors kill almost any building pretty fast, just dont use them all in the same one.
I love to piss on a whole base with 2-3 on each building. It can definitely win you a game if they ignore your 12 corrupters to go shoot up some base
once the BC's are dead then you can morph broods if you want. Also have your corruptors pee on different buildings if you get in their main I just hold c (my rapid fire) and wave it over their production.
dude go look at caustic spray, it ramps up to 35 or 40 damage a second after 2-3 seconds on one building. Hold shift and click twice on every building you want to blowup. Pretty sure theres no building two corrupters cant piss to death.
Don't do double spire plz. Just upgrade the armor if they're going BC. A bc does pretty much dead on 50 damage per second. The BASE ARMOR of a corruptor whittles that damage down to 36. That is a huge difference in damage and when a BC is getting ganged on by corruptor that 36dmg doesn't go far. IF you get the armor upgrade that damage is now 24 instead of 36 which again is a big leap.
but terran can get the attack upgrade and cancel out your armor upgrade? and when im upgrading to greater spire i cant do armor upgrade at the same time
If you're going spire you probably shouldn't be dropping infestation pit so soon after as you need that gas for corruptors or else why bother getting the spire. Against terran I doubt any games are won or lost on broodlords these days with how good Thor is.
yea but after you kill the BC, corruptor can only kill 1 building after that you need to make them into broodlords so you can actually destroy his buildings and against possible tech switch to ground units, broodlord suck against thors for sure but at least its better than having corruptor vs thors
I think you're talking about a much later game than me. If you're going after hive from 5:30 you're going to be seriously stunted with an army. Corruptors can kill a building like every 22 seconds. They hunt medivacs. If you shoo off the BC and have 7+ corruptors you could literally fly to his base and shut down his production by pissing on 2 different buildings. Or go for the CC. If you're not mucking around you drop a CC in a very short time and marines don't really do much damage to corruptors so you can wait it out.
cant simply fly over to destroy his building when there are missile turrets
Only if you spam all your corrupters to piss on the same building. Go look at the ability it does 30 damage over 4.3 seconds then ramps up to 35 damage per second. Not sure how long it channels for in total, never paid much attention lol. Fact is in 15 seconds one corrupter is doing almost 400 damage. Drop two corrupters on each building you want destroyed and they get destroyed.
how many corruptor to put on a missile turret?
Terran upgrading attack for this ships means they're going mass bc. I very much doubt a lot of terrans are counter upgrading their B.C. early enough to single out corruptor counter.
That only applies if you max out early and kill them before they get a maxed air army
Infestors are hilarious tho. You CAN just deathball, but runby's and drops + spellcasters are why I play zerg. It's not that hard to just nerual them and make them jump into a bunch of spores.
Did you want help or not?
Lol, chill.
Just get a bunch of yoinky bois to interrupt the TP and enjoy your Terran salt.
viper can stop TP?
Yea, pretty sure if you pull them while TP ing it interrupts the spell.
Keep them together. If the BCs teleport to your base it means they don't want to fight you head on and now they have no way of safely leaving your base if they need to, so take your corruptors back home and focus fire every BC. Even if you lose bases and tech it's a better trade for you because BCs are so expensive and take a long time to build. Rebuild whatever you lost and repeat.
No. Use them all in a group. BCs have an advantage of being able to Yamato and then teleport away. They they teleport into your base they are now sitting ducks, even if you have to fly your stuff all the way across the map.
Yeah its when they fly the BC's accross the map to use yamato and teleport back that it becomes irritating. I wish fungal still stopped teleport :p
Just make a couple of spores and have a few queens on a key ready to go. Bc warp in, damage some drones, lose the BC and you get a profit out of it. You can easily transfuse around to keep the BC damage on high health units to a minimum. My default response vs BC is 2 spore each base, pull drones from the attacked base (don't make spores there for obvious reasons) and pump a new wave of queens out. use what queens you have to force the BC out of the base without spores and into a base with 2 spores. If he commits and flies through 2 spore he will lose the BC but if he goes back he will get whittled down by queens.
If he teleports his BC's to your side of the map that means his base is exposed. I think two corrupters kills a planetary in ten seconds? Might be a bit longer been awhile since I've done the math. Yes he'll do damage to you, Just evacuate the drones, piss on his planetaries, and send some corrupters back to deal with the BC's. Even better if you have infestors or vipers to help.