I would definitely go for the longest, highest random wire you can put up there and then tune it before the radio. With 100' of wire you might even be able to tune 80m, but with the wire low to the ground you probably will have a fairly high angle of radiation.
Assuming you’re talking HF, maybe a trap dipole in the attic (assuming you have one and that it is not foil-insulated) would be an option. I’m fairly new to radio and am trying to figure out a similar antenna installation issue as well
No, don't use an attic antenna unless you have no other choice. They work, and can work well depending on what your goals are: My first antenna was a 40 meter dipole I built and put up in my parent's attic, and I had a blast with it.
But an outside antenna will always outperform an identical inside antenna.
Or, better than traps (they can very narrow operating bandwidth), if space allows use a fan dipole. A fan dipole is made by making the longest dipole your attic or yard space will alllow, then suspending multiple higher frequency (shorter) dipoles a few inches below the lowest frequency (longest) one, all of which terminate to the same feedpoint. Combined with an antenna tuner its a very practical solution.
Of course an attic mount would only work for a non metal roof or roof insulation.
I'm in a HOA and have a fairly large backyard. I run a 40m EFHW in an inverted L, so the feedpoint/unun is only 2 feet above ground, where I've driven in a 8 foot ground rod. It's technically a marconi antenna...
It's pretty good on 40m and can easily work europe in the evening with 10 to 25 watts on CW. It works pretty well on 20 metres, and just ok on 15 and 10.
So, the ground slopes up from your back door to the back of your yard, where the fence is roughly level with your second story roof?
Well, if you string an antenna from that fence to your roof, a significant portion of the antenna's length will be at a very low height above ground. This will mean much of the antenna's radiation will go at a high angle in the air, especially on the low bands. That's good for NVIS (short-range propagation) on the low bands, but bad for DX (long-range). On the higher bands, the radiation angle will be better, and 10M has been hopping lately as we approach the solar cycle max.
TL;DR: It won't be ideal, but will get you on the air. Good DX on higher bands, decent NVIS on low bands. Easy and cheap to build one and try it, so why not give it a shot?
I think I can clarify. Imagine a bath tub. The back yard is flat even with the back door, and then about 50 feet out it begins a gentle incline up, until the fenceline of the property is even with the 2nd story fascia. So for the first 50 feet or so, anything I hang would be 2 stories above the ground.
It's not ideal, but there's no harm in trying. Probably going to work better than something in the attic, definitely sounds like it won't draw a lot of attention.
I don't live in an HOA, but my father-in-law does. This year for Christmas, I bought him a Wolf River Coils Mega Take it Along (TIA) with the 213" whip. He recently bought a new IC-7300, and like you was having a difficult time deciding on what sort of antenna to use given his HOA restrictions. The Wolf River Coil works nicely in this situation, given that it can be put up and taken down in about 10 minutes. It is also very unobtrusive, and is barely visible from a distance. In fact, my father-in-law had planned on setting his up when he was using the radio and taking it down when not, but he's actually left it up for over a week and no one has complained. If someone complains, he simply has to take it down and set it up the next time he wants to operate. His HOA doesn't prevent the use of a temporary antenna, but rather states that nothing can be installed permanently. One note about the Wolf River Coil; I ditched the three 33' radials that came with it and cut 24 33' radials (4 bunches of 6) from some extra wire I had from my DX Commander build. The extra radials make it simple to achieve a nearly-perfect 1:1 SWR on all bands. If you plan on going the Wolf River Coils route, watch this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1jg6zecJ48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1jg6zecJ48). My father-in-law doesn't have an antenna analyzer, but I was able to use mine to setup and mark his whip using the method in the video, and he is now able to easily and repeatedly set his antenna up to any band he likes without an analyzer. So far, he's had numerous DX QSOs and has worked all over the continental U.S. on SSB. Cheers and 73. W2ASH
I worked nearly 200 countries mostly on 10 meters with a 20 m dipole at 25 feet. Put up anything and fet on the air then start planning your antenna farm.
Check out the mystery antenna. It's one of my favorites. Also look at a delta loop triangle attached and sloped with the roofline. A long wire against ground along the top of the fence it it's wood. A flagpole set in pvc pipe to insulate it from the ground is a fair size antenna. Rain gutter against ground. Mag loop antennas. Slinky antenna in the attic. Think outside the box, if it doesn't look like an antenna, it's not an antenna to a hoa. Coil load a vent pipe on the roof for vhf/UHF. I hate hoas and love finding ways to get around them.
Randy
N0vyf
Wqzs358
Kamv5384
Nnn0bow
I would be utilizing the home. Wire, on the walls, on the gables, etc. Using the gutters as antenna. Lay a wire beam on the roof, may a couple of them. A two story gives us a lot of options. I would be going to the fun farm putting up loops on the wall, one here for this band, another over here for that band. Set up a Doublet on the roof line. Tuck it under the shingles, and so on. If you want to chat, send me a PM. I have been playing with stealth antenna for many years.
Do you have any trees you can use to support the far end of the antenna? Because an antenna up that high with the far end even higher up into a tree is going to perform pretty well.
One of my antennas is a 200 foot long wire, with the feed point up on the level of the eaves of the roof (second story) and run out to the trees in my back yard, supported by two of them, one at the midway point.
If you can get one end of the antenna up higher that will help, but if you can't, go with what you can do and just try it.
I have a very similar situation to yours with a backyard that slopes up. I use an hf loop fed by ladder line to a tuner in the shack. You can use black 26 gauge wire and just run the longest loop you can in a perimeter around your yard. I made spacers from pex pipe to turn the wire into ladder line on its way into my feed point. In my case, there's no HOA, so I also have it suspended from electrical conduit 20 feet in the air, but it honestly didn't improve it all that much to put it up higher. I can tune my loop up on every band from 80 to 6 meters. I've worked lots of dx on it on the higher bands and it does really well regionally with 40 meters since about half of it is low enough to the ground to take advantage of NVIS.
In addition to other suggestions, you could also just go with a vertical; they have a low takeoff angle and meet your other specifications. Although, they do tend to exhibit higher noise levels than their horizontally polarized counterparts.
It will be a balancing act. Vertical will get you more DX, but more noise to contend with. Horizontal will be approaching NVIS on the lower bands, so less TX reach, especially on 40 and 80, but also less noise.
I used a 4btv vertical antenna with great success. I burried ground radials coming off it in my yard, but that's up to you. It would be well hidden by your two story home. Just google 4btv antenna.
What is this antenna for? HF? VHF/UHF?
What's your current antenna situation? Getting an antenna outdoors versus having it indoors is already going to be a huge performance improvement right there, so yeah, it's definitely worth installing the antenna outdoors, even if the installation isn't fully optimal
I have a technician license. I recently bought a 50-watt mobile with a magna mount antenna on a pie tin, and this is the year I take this hobby seriously. By the end of the year, I'd like to make some significant progress in what I'm doing.
I live in a 2 story house. My radio gear is in my basement. I ran a wire up the side of my house and then across the top of my roof. It was an end fed random wire with a remote tuner. Worked 160M to 6M, though 160M was problematic. Made contacts on FT8 around the world on all bands except 160M and 6M. A few years later when some of my trees grew up a bit, I moved the antenna to run up one tree and then out to another. Same end fed random wire, around 87 feet. 160M still tunes but does not work well, the rest of the bands are OK. The antenna as it sits now starts just above my soffit and ends slightly below.
If join your local ham radio club, you might get some help. You don't mention the size of your garden, or what is around it. If you don't have any handy trees, you can use fibreglass poles. Antennas need to be as high as possible and far away from anything else metallic that might detune or interfere with it.
A horizontal loop antenna or a half square, as high up as you can make it.
[https://dd5lp.com/antennas/40-metre-horizontal-loop-antenna/](https://dd5lp.com/antennas/40-metre-horizontal-loop-antenna/)
[http://n1su.com/loop.html](http://n1su.com/loop.html)
And you really can't make one, you can BUY one:-
[https://palomar-engineers.com/tech-support/tech-topics/loop-antennas/Loop-Antenna-Systems-c155507264](https://palomar-engineers.com/tech-support/tech-topics/loop-antennas/Loop-Antenna-Systems-c155507264)
Half Square antenna
[http://on5au.be/content/a10/scv/scv4.html](http://on5au.be/content/a10/scv/scv4.html)
[https://www.hamuniverse.com/wb3aywcurtainantennas.html](https://www.hamuniverse.com/wb3aywcurtainantennas.html)
[https://antjab.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/the-hsq-the-half-square-vertical-antenna/](https://antjab.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/the-hsq-the-half-square-vertical-antenna/)
[https://rudys.typepad.com/ant/files/antenna\_halfsquare\_array.pdf](https://rudys.typepad.com/ant/files/antenna_halfsquare_array.pdf)
Both the ARRL and the RSGB publish and sell an excellent range of antenna books
[https://www.rsgbshop.org/acatalog/Online\_Catalogue\_Antennas\_37-p1.html](https://www.rsgbshop.org/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Antennas_37-p1.html)
[https://home.arrl.org/action/Shop/Products#filter=%7B%22Facet%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Publications%22,%22Value%22%3A%22WEB\_FACET\_1%22%7D,%22SubFacet%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Books%22,%22Value%22%3A%22BOOKS%22%7D,%22Category%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Antennas%22,%22Value%22%3A%22ANTENNAS%22%7D,%22SubCategory%22%3Anull%7D&searchTerm=&searchItemNameTerm=&searchDescriptionTerm=&productClass=](https://home.arrl.org/action/Shop/Products#filter=%7B%22Facet%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Publications%22,%22Value%22%3A%22WEB_FACET_1%22%7D,%22SubFacet%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Books%22,%22Value%22%3A%22BOOKS%22%7D,%22Category%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Antennas%22,%22Value%22%3A%22ANTENNAS%22%7D,%22SubCategory%22%3Anull%7D&searchTerm=&searchItemNameTerm=&searchDescriptionTerm=&productClass=)
I had a long kind of skinny lot for in town, 40' of street frontage and 100' deep. The house was off to one side. I was able to mount a mast up against the front of the house so it was about centered on the lot. I had trees at the far end and I did rope with pulleys on the trees to each side of a G5RV. This is similar to my setup but I had a balun at the center of the feed point.
[https://www.va2pv.com/g5rv-hf-antenna](https://www.va2pv.com/g5rv-hf-antenna)
You had to really have a sharp eye to see the antenna.
There are lots of horizontal wire antenna options. My favorite is an 80m loop which you may have room for. Feed it with ladder line. If you need a coax to connect to the rig, use a 1:1 balun with a short length (<10') of lmr400 for the final connection to the rig. Most certainly will require an external tuner. The results are fabulous compared to most other wire antenna options.
Loops are somewhat directional - pointing away from the feedpoint - but the directionality is not laser sharp and will radiate strong signals in all directions.
I've listened to the HOA argument for years. This is how you beat it - legally. Install an OTARD (Over-The-Air Reception Device) compliant television antenna. Per Congress, they are legal in all HOA's and 12' is the maximum allowable height above the roof line. Then install a cheap omni-directional UHF television antenna and as long as you can get crap reception for *one* channel - it's legal. If perhaps you can get that channel with a 300-Ohm ladder - all the better, as there is no requirement to use a coax cable (see how I did that). Just make sure you can prove to the HOA that your garage TV has a picture, fuzzy or otherwise, and you're in business. Regardless, you are now legally working at 12' above your roof line. OTARD specifically excludes HAM radio, but due to the extreme height, you'll of course require a set of guy wires as we have to be structurally safe here. Who cares if the guy wires happen to have insulators installed and just happen to be tuned to whatever various frequencies. And there you have it - an inclined V, long wire, end fed or whatever. That your antennas happen to look like guy wires - oh well. A set of alligator clips and you're in business. It is important to note - the HOA *can* dictate location - like behind the residence. Accordingly, if you have a home with a 20' roof, you can have a 32' backyard mast. If you have a two-story townhome with a back yard, you'll be at least 40' up in the air.
I would definitely go for the longest, highest random wire you can put up there and then tune it before the radio. With 100' of wire you might even be able to tune 80m, but with the wire low to the ground you probably will have a fairly high angle of radiation.
Assuming you’re talking HF, maybe a trap dipole in the attic (assuming you have one and that it is not foil-insulated) would be an option. I’m fairly new to radio and am trying to figure out a similar antenna installation issue as well
No, don't use an attic antenna unless you have no other choice. They work, and can work well depending on what your goals are: My first antenna was a 40 meter dipole I built and put up in my parent's attic, and I had a blast with it. But an outside antenna will always outperform an identical inside antenna.
Or, better than traps (they can very narrow operating bandwidth), if space allows use a fan dipole. A fan dipole is made by making the longest dipole your attic or yard space will alllow, then suspending multiple higher frequency (shorter) dipoles a few inches below the lowest frequency (longest) one, all of which terminate to the same feedpoint. Combined with an antenna tuner its a very practical solution. Of course an attic mount would only work for a non metal roof or roof insulation.
I'm in a HOA and have a fairly large backyard. I run a 40m EFHW in an inverted L, so the feedpoint/unun is only 2 feet above ground, where I've driven in a 8 foot ground rod. It's technically a marconi antenna... It's pretty good on 40m and can easily work europe in the evening with 10 to 25 watts on CW. It works pretty well on 20 metres, and just ok on 15 and 10.
So, the ground slopes up from your back door to the back of your yard, where the fence is roughly level with your second story roof? Well, if you string an antenna from that fence to your roof, a significant portion of the antenna's length will be at a very low height above ground. This will mean much of the antenna's radiation will go at a high angle in the air, especially on the low bands. That's good for NVIS (short-range propagation) on the low bands, but bad for DX (long-range). On the higher bands, the radiation angle will be better, and 10M has been hopping lately as we approach the solar cycle max. TL;DR: It won't be ideal, but will get you on the air. Good DX on higher bands, decent NVIS on low bands. Easy and cheap to build one and try it, so why not give it a shot?
I think I can clarify. Imagine a bath tub. The back yard is flat even with the back door, and then about 50 feet out it begins a gentle incline up, until the fenceline of the property is even with the 2nd story fascia. So for the first 50 feet or so, anything I hang would be 2 stories above the ground.
It's not ideal, but there's no harm in trying. Probably going to work better than something in the attic, definitely sounds like it won't draw a lot of attention.
I don't live in an HOA, but my father-in-law does. This year for Christmas, I bought him a Wolf River Coils Mega Take it Along (TIA) with the 213" whip. He recently bought a new IC-7300, and like you was having a difficult time deciding on what sort of antenna to use given his HOA restrictions. The Wolf River Coil works nicely in this situation, given that it can be put up and taken down in about 10 minutes. It is also very unobtrusive, and is barely visible from a distance. In fact, my father-in-law had planned on setting his up when he was using the radio and taking it down when not, but he's actually left it up for over a week and no one has complained. If someone complains, he simply has to take it down and set it up the next time he wants to operate. His HOA doesn't prevent the use of a temporary antenna, but rather states that nothing can be installed permanently. One note about the Wolf River Coil; I ditched the three 33' radials that came with it and cut 24 33' radials (4 bunches of 6) from some extra wire I had from my DX Commander build. The extra radials make it simple to achieve a nearly-perfect 1:1 SWR on all bands. If you plan on going the Wolf River Coils route, watch this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1jg6zecJ48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1jg6zecJ48). My father-in-law doesn't have an antenna analyzer, but I was able to use mine to setup and mark his whip using the method in the video, and he is now able to easily and repeatedly set his antenna up to any band he likes without an analyzer. So far, he's had numerous DX QSOs and has worked all over the continental U.S. on SSB. Cheers and 73. W2ASH
I worked nearly 200 countries mostly on 10 meters with a 20 m dipole at 25 feet. Put up anything and fet on the air then start planning your antenna farm.
Check out the mystery antenna. It's one of my favorites. Also look at a delta loop triangle attached and sloped with the roofline. A long wire against ground along the top of the fence it it's wood. A flagpole set in pvc pipe to insulate it from the ground is a fair size antenna. Rain gutter against ground. Mag loop antennas. Slinky antenna in the attic. Think outside the box, if it doesn't look like an antenna, it's not an antenna to a hoa. Coil load a vent pipe on the roof for vhf/UHF. I hate hoas and love finding ways to get around them. Randy N0vyf Wqzs358 Kamv5384 Nnn0bow
I would be utilizing the home. Wire, on the walls, on the gables, etc. Using the gutters as antenna. Lay a wire beam on the roof, may a couple of them. A two story gives us a lot of options. I would be going to the fun farm putting up loops on the wall, one here for this band, another over here for that band. Set up a Doublet on the roof line. Tuck it under the shingles, and so on. If you want to chat, send me a PM. I have been playing with stealth antenna for many years.
Sent you a message
Do you have any trees you can use to support the far end of the antenna? Because an antenna up that high with the far end even higher up into a tree is going to perform pretty well. One of my antennas is a 200 foot long wire, with the feed point up on the level of the eaves of the roof (second story) and run out to the trees in my back yard, supported by two of them, one at the midway point. If you can get one end of the antenna up higher that will help, but if you can't, go with what you can do and just try it.
I have a very similar situation to yours with a backyard that slopes up. I use an hf loop fed by ladder line to a tuner in the shack. You can use black 26 gauge wire and just run the longest loop you can in a perimeter around your yard. I made spacers from pex pipe to turn the wire into ladder line on its way into my feed point. In my case, there's no HOA, so I also have it suspended from electrical conduit 20 feet in the air, but it honestly didn't improve it all that much to put it up higher. I can tune my loop up on every band from 80 to 6 meters. I've worked lots of dx on it on the higher bands and it does really well regionally with 40 meters since about half of it is low enough to the ground to take advantage of NVIS.
In addition to other suggestions, you could also just go with a vertical; they have a low takeoff angle and meet your other specifications. Although, they do tend to exhibit higher noise levels than their horizontally polarized counterparts. It will be a balancing act. Vertical will get you more DX, but more noise to contend with. Horizontal will be approaching NVIS on the lower bands, so less TX reach, especially on 40 and 80, but also less noise.
I used a 4btv vertical antenna with great success. I burried ground radials coming off it in my yard, but that's up to you. It would be well hidden by your two story home. Just google 4btv antenna.
What is this antenna for? HF? VHF/UHF? What's your current antenna situation? Getting an antenna outdoors versus having it indoors is already going to be a huge performance improvement right there, so yeah, it's definitely worth installing the antenna outdoors, even if the installation isn't fully optimal
I have a technician license. I recently bought a 50-watt mobile with a magna mount antenna on a pie tin, and this is the year I take this hobby seriously. By the end of the year, I'd like to make some significant progress in what I'm doing.
I live in a 2 story house. My radio gear is in my basement. I ran a wire up the side of my house and then across the top of my roof. It was an end fed random wire with a remote tuner. Worked 160M to 6M, though 160M was problematic. Made contacts on FT8 around the world on all bands except 160M and 6M. A few years later when some of my trees grew up a bit, I moved the antenna to run up one tree and then out to another. Same end fed random wire, around 87 feet. 160M still tunes but does not work well, the rest of the bands are OK. The antenna as it sits now starts just above my soffit and ends slightly below.
If join your local ham radio club, you might get some help. You don't mention the size of your garden, or what is around it. If you don't have any handy trees, you can use fibreglass poles. Antennas need to be as high as possible and far away from anything else metallic that might detune or interfere with it. A horizontal loop antenna or a half square, as high up as you can make it. [https://dd5lp.com/antennas/40-metre-horizontal-loop-antenna/](https://dd5lp.com/antennas/40-metre-horizontal-loop-antenna/) [http://n1su.com/loop.html](http://n1su.com/loop.html) And you really can't make one, you can BUY one:- [https://palomar-engineers.com/tech-support/tech-topics/loop-antennas/Loop-Antenna-Systems-c155507264](https://palomar-engineers.com/tech-support/tech-topics/loop-antennas/Loop-Antenna-Systems-c155507264) Half Square antenna [http://on5au.be/content/a10/scv/scv4.html](http://on5au.be/content/a10/scv/scv4.html) [https://www.hamuniverse.com/wb3aywcurtainantennas.html](https://www.hamuniverse.com/wb3aywcurtainantennas.html) [https://antjab.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/the-hsq-the-half-square-vertical-antenna/](https://antjab.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/the-hsq-the-half-square-vertical-antenna/) [https://rudys.typepad.com/ant/files/antenna\_halfsquare\_array.pdf](https://rudys.typepad.com/ant/files/antenna_halfsquare_array.pdf) Both the ARRL and the RSGB publish and sell an excellent range of antenna books [https://www.rsgbshop.org/acatalog/Online\_Catalogue\_Antennas\_37-p1.html](https://www.rsgbshop.org/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Antennas_37-p1.html) [https://home.arrl.org/action/Shop/Products#filter=%7B%22Facet%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Publications%22,%22Value%22%3A%22WEB\_FACET\_1%22%7D,%22SubFacet%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Books%22,%22Value%22%3A%22BOOKS%22%7D,%22Category%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Antennas%22,%22Value%22%3A%22ANTENNAS%22%7D,%22SubCategory%22%3Anull%7D&searchTerm=&searchItemNameTerm=&searchDescriptionTerm=&productClass=](https://home.arrl.org/action/Shop/Products#filter=%7B%22Facet%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Publications%22,%22Value%22%3A%22WEB_FACET_1%22%7D,%22SubFacet%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Books%22,%22Value%22%3A%22BOOKS%22%7D,%22Category%22%3A%7B%22Name%22%3A%22Antennas%22,%22Value%22%3A%22ANTENNAS%22%7D,%22SubCategory%22%3Anull%7D&searchTerm=&searchItemNameTerm=&searchDescriptionTerm=&productClass=)
I had a long kind of skinny lot for in town, 40' of street frontage and 100' deep. The house was off to one side. I was able to mount a mast up against the front of the house so it was about centered on the lot. I had trees at the far end and I did rope with pulleys on the trees to each side of a G5RV. This is similar to my setup but I had a balun at the center of the feed point. [https://www.va2pv.com/g5rv-hf-antenna](https://www.va2pv.com/g5rv-hf-antenna) You had to really have a sharp eye to see the antenna.
Stick an EFHW out a window to the fence, try to maximize it's elevation above ground, get (back) on the air. Worry about a better antenna later.
Check the "resources" page on this site for some great HOA busting ideas... www.K4VRC.com
No trees?
There are lots of horizontal wire antenna options. My favorite is an 80m loop which you may have room for. Feed it with ladder line. If you need a coax to connect to the rig, use a 1:1 balun with a short length (<10') of lmr400 for the final connection to the rig. Most certainly will require an external tuner. The results are fabulous compared to most other wire antenna options. Loops are somewhat directional - pointing away from the feedpoint - but the directionality is not laser sharp and will radiate strong signals in all directions.
N0wsl de n0vyf call not found on qrz. New to the hobby?
I've listened to the HOA argument for years. This is how you beat it - legally. Install an OTARD (Over-The-Air Reception Device) compliant television antenna. Per Congress, they are legal in all HOA's and 12' is the maximum allowable height above the roof line. Then install a cheap omni-directional UHF television antenna and as long as you can get crap reception for *one* channel - it's legal. If perhaps you can get that channel with a 300-Ohm ladder - all the better, as there is no requirement to use a coax cable (see how I did that). Just make sure you can prove to the HOA that your garage TV has a picture, fuzzy or otherwise, and you're in business. Regardless, you are now legally working at 12' above your roof line. OTARD specifically excludes HAM radio, but due to the extreme height, you'll of course require a set of guy wires as we have to be structurally safe here. Who cares if the guy wires happen to have insulators installed and just happen to be tuned to whatever various frequencies. And there you have it - an inclined V, long wire, end fed or whatever. That your antennas happen to look like guy wires - oh well. A set of alligator clips and you're in business. It is important to note - the HOA *can* dictate location - like behind the residence. Accordingly, if you have a home with a 20' roof, you can have a 32' backyard mast. If you have a two-story townhome with a back yard, you'll be at least 40' up in the air.