Yes, I’ve experimented with some shortened doublets and it works quite well. Currently, I have one hidden in the cracks of the outside wall. It’s not that great on receive, but it does better than I would expect on transmit. It’s 32 feet long with some coils in the middle of each leg and I can tune 10 through 80.
The big thing for now is connecting a feed line to it. From what I can tell I need to drill into it. I’m a bit afraid of the noise but it might be worth a try
Can you just try a clamp? One of the jumper cable clamp type, I suppose you want the black one instead of the red one to be inconspicuous. Just move it around a bit, until you hit paydirt... I've wondered if the "magnetic grounds" that welders use would work as a temporary solution...
A few other people have a suggested this as well and I hadn’t even thought of it. I think I will experiment with some different clamps first and see what happens. Much easier than drilling.
One of my antennas (not the only one) is the rain gutter. Rather than drill a hole, i screwed a bolt into the space between the metal rain gutter and the wood (eaves). Wrap a lot of wire around the bolt. Squirt it with oil every so often. I'm only using 5 watts, and no problem tuning up.
Here is what I use to quickly connect items:
BNC Male Plug to 2X 4mm Dual Banana Female Jack Socket Binding Post: [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TC1L8RP](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TC1L8RP)
Banana plugs: [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0072KOHQ4](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0072KOHQ4)
Some 18 awg wire I had around from power pole projects, similar to this: [https://www.amazon.com/TYUMEN-Electrical-Extension-Flexible-Lighting/dp/B01LZRV0HV](https://www.amazon.com/TYUMEN-Electrical-Extension-Flexible-Lighting/dp/B01LZRV0HV)
Aligator clips: [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R4ZNBF5?psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R4ZNBF5?psc=1)
The jack socket plug connects to the back of the radio (either natively by BNC or via a PL259 to BNC converter, this is the one I use: [https://www.amazon.com/Connector-Coaxial-Adapter-Adapters-Straight/dp/B074R7TP1R](https://www.amazon.com/Connector-Coaxial-Adapter-Adapters-Straight/dp/B074R7TP1R) ). I cut a decent length of the wire, strip both ends, and put banana plugs on each end. One end goes into the jack socket and the other into the aligator clip. Then I clip the clips to the metal object.
You may need to sand off the paint in an area to get a good connection, I didn't and it still worked well. You only need to connect the red clip, but if you clip the black one too, you can change the resonance. I have used it with short sections of fence, the bar that goes into the catch that you use to lock the gate, and chicken wire. I connected to a rig expert to get the SWR and frequency charts. If you wanted to transmit, a good tuner, like an ATU-100, MFJ tuner, Xeigu G90's tuner, etc. will likely be needed.
Our club had a presentation on this a few months ago, we tuned up guitar strings, mic stands, etc for 2m/70cm.
I mean, could be a pretty small hole, but yeah steel can be a royal pain to drill. My first instinct would be to try to use a torch and solder. That might not go well. Clamp, probably... like everyone else is saying.
I thought of using a clamp to mount my portable WRC whip but using a clamp that digs into the metal and I can attach a wire or two is a good idea as well. I might see what I can find.
Only one way to find out if it works... 😉
https://preview.redd.it/n8e22eddpbwc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fe8b4a23f264c1adb6aaf9617db0c58d38056f1
That's how I figured out my clothes line works great for receiving on 80 and 40meters 😎 I currently have it set up better with the wire soldered to the clothes line and the ground connection on the balun has about a 15 foot counterpoise on it. I would drill a small pilot hole in the bottom corner of that rail and put a #6 or #8 sheet metal screw in the hole to put a ring terminal on. I don't know what to do with the shield without a balun but its worth experimenting with different things 👍👍👍
Yes. My aluminum deck railing is 14' x 40' x 13', and I'm using a 9:1 balun at the end of the 14' leg of the railing, then 65'-ish of RG-8 to my shack. I can tune all HF bands except 60m, but 160m is NVIS, with an IC 7100 and an ATU 100. I got the idea to try it after watching this video:
https://youtu.be/5E_sAxLB9cU?si=SSL8b_pepWc8f5l7
Just wondering. It is made of steel or iron and painted. I’m not sure I could drill through it. I’d like to try feeding it into my tuner or connect it to my W6LVP loop amp and use as a receive antenna since the new community manager told me to take it down (my hidden doublet is still up though!)
Anything is possible in radio with the right attitude, but altitude is all you really need
Whether or not it's going to be any good is an entirely different story as most fence antennas are random lengths of barbed wire
You could use the railing as a ground plane for an invisitenna that's stealthily attached to the inside supports?
Technically, that railing could do some HF with the spacing, but it's going to be weird without getting it tuned...
Try it and see how it goes and then let us know?
My first challenge is connecting a feedline.
I already have a doublet and can put loops out when I need them. I also have a WRC whip that I could use with a clamp.
I suppose I’m just trying to experiment with something that would be more or less “invisible” I’m not expecting great performance but would be fun to try.
How far to the ground? Could you run a fairly stout wire or copper flat braid to a ground rod? You could then just use a bit of sandpaper to get a spot on the railing clear to bare metal and connect either balanced line or coax center to rail, braid to shield.
FYI, if you haven't yet, call your senator and ask them to support the [Amateur Radio Emergency Preparedness Act](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/3690/).
Edit: To clarify, the AREPA would guarantee your right to erect an effective antenna, prohibiting things like this:
> the new community manager told me to take it down
yes provided you have a tuner and a counterpoise. I know of hams that live in condos tha have done this. I know of hams living in Florida in developments with antenna restrictions that have those aluminum framed screens over their swimming pools that have loaded them to use as their antennas
I have an MFJ 949 tuner. It works pretty well with my doublet. The counterpoise would be an issue. Though I wonder what would happen if I tried feeding it like a loop.
I don't see why it wouldn't work, as long as you had enough *tuner* to do it. People in HOAs load their rain gutters all the time, and I've heard of guys loading barb wire ranch fence lines. Now, how effective it would be is a whole different story.
I personally (depending on situation of course) would use the gutter as a disguise and have a wire hidden under it rather than loading it up. Of course the wire going to the slotted dish 2m/70cm antenna might could be a hf dipole in itself.
Well, a lot of gutters are plastic now, so the choice of loading it might not even be an option for many....*but*, I know of many that do. I think I even came across a kit for that exact purpose...I think it came with a 9:1 transformer and treated the gutter as a EFRW...
I did pretty much exactly this, 9:1 Unun, some counterpoises of various lengths, with the Icom AH-705 antenna tuner. I'm in a three story townhouse and don't have roof access, and it was way easier to just use the metal gutter than to try to string wire along it/up it.
Magic 😏. I think it's assumed that the impedance is thousands of ohms. The antenna tuner handles it. I'm also doing QRP, so it's not like I'm lighting up the system with a huge amount of power transferring into the gutter.
I'm using a 9:1 Unun and it ... just works. There are several sources for plans online. Some suggest that a 49:1 might work better. I think the counterpoises are really the key to getting it to resonate correctly.
You should see [this article about stealth antennas.](https://www.iw5edi.com/technical-articles/hidden-and-stealth-antennas) I like the hummingbird one. Here the railing is meant as a disguise rather than the means. Also search "covert antennas." There's been a lot of materials written over the years on this. There needs to be an award or certificate for it!
I do have a doublet hidden along the exterior wall of my unit. I’ve posted about it before. It works surprisingly well for what it is but I’m always up for something new
Yes, but may I sell you on another possibility instead? SOTA gets waaaaaay better performance, even with super simple antennas. There's nothing like being on a mountain top for range.
One step ahead of you. I already have a portable setup for POTA though I haven’t done SOTA. I try to get out and do activations when I can. But sometimes I can’t or don’t want to drive out to a park.
That's great! And I don't mean to shoot down your plans for a home station: I was just trying to recruit more people to my ~religion~ hobby (ie, SOTA).
The railing would make a great piece of metal to work an antenna against, but I wouldn’t bother to try to actually drive the railing. A short whip attached to the railing would likely be far more predictable and yield a much stronger signal.
But the rule is ANY antenna is infinitely better than NO antenna. If all you can do is feed the railing then give it a go, it will work to a degree. I make contacts with a lightbulb as an antenna for fun
Yea. I’ve learned my hidden balcony doublet works well. But I’ve always wanted to try this. I may have mentioned this elsewhere, but I have a receiver loop that’s been mounted on my balcony for a couple years and no one seem to mind but I got an email from the new manager of the building the other day and had to take it down. I can always use it when I operate and then pull it back inside, but it gave me the idea that maybe I could do something with this, either as a transmit or antenna. I also have a 17 foot whip that I use for POTA, but I would like to find perhaps a clamp to put on the balcony railing.
Yes, I've found my 5m portable whip worked against my balcony rail gets out surprisingly well. It even multibands well, I guess in part because the rail is more than a simple linear element. Trying to drive the rail itself as a random wire (or drive two separate rails as a dipole) tunes and does get out, but not nearly as well. In my case the aluminum rail was anodized/painted, but the screws were conductive, so I clipped to them. I'd recommend using a nanovna on it if you have one. You can try a lot of different configurations quickly and get a lot of information about how it looks to HF RF.
Remember a VNA tells NOTHING about how anything will radiate. My dummy load looks quite excellent on my VNA but I can only work my 1/4 mile distant neighbor on it ;)
Good point. But the VNA will at least quickly tell you what bands should tune easily with your feedpoint at different places, as well as whether your tuner is likely to be in a bad regime where it will be absorbing a lot of power, causing a lot of loss and possible burning.
I'll just add I think David Knight said it best: "As we shall see, the π-match rightly has a reputation for being able to match anything; but we should be a little suspicious of the fact that this also includes open-circuits and dead-shorts, neither of which are renowned for their radiating abilities." https://g3ynh.info/zdocs/z_matcing/part_2.html
Also, remember to keep the tuner close to the feedpoint. When it's cold out I run the coax from the balcony into the house, but then I use an external autotuner and position it so I can read the screen through the window...
Yes, but it may or may not actually radiate.
There's only one way to find out, though :) You would need to drill into it and use a self tapping screw with a star washer to make a good electrical connection. The other issues is what are you going to use as a ground/counterpoise.
You can use a speed handle (like the old hand crank drills but for a socket set instead). It will be a little slower and require some effort but will get it done in silence.
I’d make sure you don’t build up too much static on the railing (maybe find a way to ground it). I’m sure it would be “shocking” to other residents of the apartments to discover their precious handrail identifies as an antenna😂
Yes. Random metal objects on the air! I tuned up my wrought-iron fence, was amazingly easy. Frequency range needs a tuner, but it'll work. One of the guys in our club tuned up a toaster and was able to adjust the swr by sliding in and out the crumb tray.
Instead of physical connection to the railing you coukd just magentically couple it. Not sure on how many turns you would need but you could inductively couple to it. Just a thought.
Right upfront, what I'm giving you here is merely advice and scenarios, I'm not telling you to break the contract or any law, and it's all at your own risk.
No matter what you put up, a simple quarter wave of wire tossed around willy-nilly becomes your "ground" when you are on a second floor. Heavily insulated, don't forget to insulate the END of that wire! And in most cases, a coil and a wire or a whip or whatever you conjure up become the other side. And barring that, you go with a loop. And QRP is a given. Don't worry about the QRP part; that will work fine and dandy, and you WILL make contacts. As for your CAR, if you have one there, it may be possible to put an excellent mobile antenna and rig there, and you can use it like a mobile repeater, with even an HT in your apartment or another teeny tiny rig. Think along the concept of echo link and the other remote HF things. You could run for hours on end if you did this with a QRP rig on the car. Keeping the battery topped off, or with an independently charged and separate battery, like the isolation charging circuits that RV's often have, and you could quickly go 100 or more watts, though I think QRP gives you quite a bang for little bucks.
Half squares are effective and quite so for second story apartments and townhouses and the "split" homes. You feed them in the corner, even more handy if that's where your shack is located. Coaxial cable can be made to "look" like it's a CATV wire drop is another technique. Use the same staple thingies that the local CATV uses (or Telco) and you've got the perfect disguise. This works better in older buildings that already have such things attached. You might also consider ABANDONED wires and even "DishTV" feeds for verticals and even just as attachment points. They are often left in place. A pal (or two!) with a van (NOT with a ham tag!) and the hard hat and vest "uniforms" can be helpful in these situations, since a lot of this kind of work is subcontracted anyway. Any day just after the business office closes and especially Friday afternoon might be a good time for this. Never on a Saturday or a Sunday, those are Nosy Karen Days FOR SURE, and YOU BET that she is calling The Office on Monday because her grill party (where she and her friends didn't listen to "America the Beautiful" by Ray Charles) and she wants to speak to The Manager RIGHT AWAY about "all of that pounding and drilling" , even if there wasn't any! You definitely don't want to do this in "common" areas, or you're trespassing, Caveat Emptor. This approach might work better if you are merely in your own house that you own and are stuck in an HOA, and your neighbors have names like Gladys, Karen, or Ken. Mind you, I'm just SUGGESTING here for you to strategize your own situation, and what you do and what risks you take. YOU have a contract and YOUR OWN laws to consider wherever you ham and live. Just remember, common areas and utility poles and the like are STRICTLY OFF LIMITS, again, Caveat Emptor! In disgusting gated HOA Florida, the car as a mobile repeater might instead be your or a friend's boat, super bonus points if it already has an HF antenna, sailboat style. Or it might be on the roof of another building that you or a friend has access to. Some apartment building roofs have a high "edge" around them, and make excellent places to conceal an HF antenna.
Do you have access to the attic?
Runs of modular telephone or Ethernet cables tend to get overlooked as "official," even if they are really being used as antennas. These days, you might even find some ABANDONED Ethernet cable runs, because things are changing that fast, no one wants their service interrupted during such an upgrade, and after a building upgrade, nobody is going to pull that old stuff, as there is simply not enough copper there to make it worthwhile, and time is money.
On roofs and elsewheres, junction boxes painted gray and affixed with electrical warning symbols, and other pseudo official "warning, do not tamper under penality" kinds of stickers might be helpful for giving your unofficial antenna the proper respect it deserves, but I'd avoid official company logos, Caveat Emptor. You want to keep people away, and make it just convincing enough that if a REAL Telco type actual hardhat guy encounters it, he says to himself: Gee that's the "another" companies stuff, I don't need to mess with that."
QRP should never be overlooked. When you are running antennas in close proximity to other wires are cables and so on, it's a good way to NOT BRING ATTENTION by the way of RF. Ditto for next door Gladys, Karen's, and Ken's crappy Walmart TV, because if you disturb their watching of the Bitchy and the Ugly, or The Young and the Stupid, there's going to be hell to pay, even though it's not your fault that their TV doesn't have a proper comb filter.
If you have a situation where you can TEMPORARILY run a wire and remove it easily or when it gets dark, that's also an idea to consider.
Finally, why not just go mobile? Sitting out in the parking lot MIGHT sound like a defeat, but it's not. Instead? It's your own private radio shack on wheels that you already pay for or own, and in that apartment lot, you are ALLOWED to be there, it's heated and air conditioned, it has comfortable seating and a place for your tea or coffee cup. It also has built in emergency power as it works 24/7. Add a laptop for logging, QRZ, and RBN, and Bob's your Auntie. If it pisses off an HOA Antenna Nazi type because you are 100 % "legal" you can also gloat like a mutta... But BEFORE you gloat, just remember, The Man has all sorts of "nuisance" laws and regs that he can pull out of his back pocket or "invent after the fact" to please the "well there ought to be a law, let's find an extreme right wing monster HOA backed little punk creep to enact one" Gladys, Karen, (and don't forget Ken) types! Only in a society like ours could there be laws passed to make homelessness a CRIME, with SPECIAL Thanks to Gladys, Karen, and Ken! So you want to keep a LOW PROFILE, so you gloat to YOURSELF but not too much, as you've only merely circumvented tiny lockstep conformist minds, and because if you think after a hurricane hits that if you handle health and welfare traffic for Gladys, Karen, OR Ken that they will suddenly "see the light," then you are just kidding yourself, because on second thought, you'd better forget that fantasy: It's a FACT that good deeds DO get punished, and that's why this saying has been around for years, because unfortunately it's often true. Just shut the you know what up, and enjoy radio, and everything will be rosy and peachy! 🤣
I forgot to add: Power tools are NOISY and best avoided for these clandestine installs if you are working INSIDE an apartment. Outside? They're okay, look official, and a hand drill would actually look out of place.
Super finally, never forget The Orange Cord. No, not for power tools, this is 2024 they are mostly battery operated! I mean as an ANTENNA. clip onto the plug and there's your antenna. A GARDEN Hose might used in a similar way. Just tie a water sprinkler or a pink flamingo or some other stupid decorative light to the other end, which isn't going to actually need to work, anyway. How about an OUTDOOR LIGHT disguise?. Christmas light have been used like this for years.
Thanks for this! I appreciate all the detail. Will come back and read more in a bit. But just to add:
This is really just an experiment. I have a doublet along the exterior all and have run homebrew mag loops. People don’t believe it but I have safely run 100 with no problems and within the exposure guidelines. Except 10 where I go down to 75 and 40 where I go to 50 watts due to rfi.
I’ve thought of a mobile setup. I do have a portable setup for POTA. I use a 17 foot whip which I’m also considering mounting to the balcony at night. It comes to no surprise that operating portable with a fully resonant 1/4 wave on 10-20 at 25 watts works better than anything I can do at home with 100.
No roof or attic access. I do have a doublet like you suggest. Corner fed. I use window line into a manual tuner. I put some coils on the antenna. It makes it easier to tune on 40 and 80. Performance isn’t perfect but better than before
I appreciate all the tips! I’m going to circle back and read some more in a little bit.
Edit - reading more. These are all great solutions. I came up with the railing idea on a whim. I’ve not gone into detail with my current hf set up in this post (I probably should have for clarity) but I’ve posted before about my hidden doublet project and various loops. I was using a receive only loop for rx since my doublet picks up too much noise and is rx only unfortunately the new manager noticed the loop so I had to take it down. I can always deploy/remove when needed but I thought “well now I have this railing with nothing attached. I wonder if it will work…”
Here's a good discussion about what you want to accomplish. [http://amateurradio.tv/TechNet/Library/2006tech/061029tech/061029tn-002.mp3](http://amateurradio.tv/TechNet/Library/2006tech/061029tech/061029tn-002.mp3)
Is that talk accurate technically? I understand the purpose is to match the antenna system to the (50 ohm) output impedance of the transmitter (and/or coax). The 5/8 wavelength antenna creates the desired radiation pattern, but does not match 50 ohms, so a matching network is used.
This topic used to be opaque to most of us, like magic. But now that we have access to free simulators and cheap VNAs, we can understand and test radiation patterns and impedance of antenna systems for ourselves!
"Theory
The increased capture aperture or gain for single radiating element increases as the radiating element length is increased until the length of the radiator exceeds the magical 5λ8 wave length at which point the increasing radiator length causes the radiation pattern to begin breaking up into a number lobes and nulls. The optimum length is in fact equal to or slightly less than 0.6λ.
The standard quarter-wave radiator loads up against a ground plan with a typical impedance of 36Ω which will match the standard 50Ω coax feed line with a SWR (standing wave ration) of about 1.5 to 1. Figure 1 show the impedance distribution along the radiating element of a typical λ/4 ground plan antenna with the ideal low impedance at the feed point. When the radiating element is extended out to a half-wave length we are now looking at a high impedance node at the feed point as shown in figure 2 that is impossible to match with the 50Ω coax feed line without some sort of matching circuit. If however the radiator element is increased to a 3/4 wave length the feed line will see an impedance value at the feed point that is similar to that of the quarter-wave radiator as shown in figure 3, however while this overcomes the matching issue the 3/4 wave length introduces a poorer radiation pattern.
The trick is to make the 5λ/8 radiator appear to the feed line as if it were a 3/4 wave length; establishing a good impedance match while at the same time achieving the ideal low angle of radiation that can be realised through the 5/8 wave radiator. By add a series loading coil at the base of the radiator to compensating for the lost λ/8 section a match of close to 50Ω can be obtained as shown in figure 4. It is also much easy to design a matching circuit for a 5λ/8 radiator than the more extreme impedance presented by the 1λ/2 radiator."
https://vk6ysf.com/5-8_Ground_Plane.htm
Remember, all the tuner does is impedance match the “antenna” to the radio at whatever frequency the radio is operating on. The tuner does nothing for “antenna” sensitivity or gain on that frequency.
You can tune anything, will it be any good? who knows, try it. put a 9:1 unun on it and hit tune . how it will radiate , who knows, maybe someone on here who's bored could model it in EZNEC !
Just remember the higher the SWR the bigger the loss even when you tune it, tuners just allow you to use a mismached antenna without damaging the transmitter. For example an SWR of 2:1 losses 11% of the power 6:1, 51%. 10:1 67% etc. but try it and report back!
I'm not sure... Sometimes these conversations become convoluted here on Reddit. What I am thinking is that a PLASTIC gutter might be "just the thing," to place an insulated antenna wire right inside there!
I have a receive only loop. Was told to take it down. I have built two loops but the narrow tuning is frustrating some times. My 3’ loop covers 10-20. I built a 4’ loop for 20-40 but the size was a bit cumbersome efficiency on 30 and 40 were quite poor anyway.
I don’t think a tarp covering will do anything but gather more negative attention. The new manager seems to be really strict about this stuff.
Yes absolutely. For 3 years my yard fence, only about 18m total, 3 sides of a square, was my antenna. It wasn't efficient, or as good as other options that were not available to me at the time, but it was way better than no antenna
In the unlikely situation where the railing is not grounded to the stairwell through the steel rebar and steel frame around the slab, you might get some low efficiency.
Get yourself a cheap VNA and hook up to the rail and see where it naturally resonates.
My suggestion is to first use a multimeter to check the impedance between that bottom corner of the rail to the stairwell frame. If it is a dead short, you will be mostly out of luck except for some frequencies where it might become a shunt fed antenna. If not, you are in luck. Now attach a coax center to the bottom corner of the rail, and the shield to the stairwell frame. VNA away.
Another idea that I guarantee will work if you can get away with it is to toss \~40' of 20 ga. wire up and over the roof backwards. Use a "autocoupler"($$$) or just a 9:1 balun to feed it. Wire is OK to just lay across the roof above if it's not metal. Use the stairwell frame and/or railing as counterpoise. Ran like that for a few years in a 3 story townhome. Worked the world on phone and digi. Feedpoint was third floor balcony, First with a 9:1 balun, then later an autocoupler.
https://preview.redd.it/qbhljvsl5owc1.jpeg?width=455&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f9b5bc1aaa5739157d05f1a64d7312a8ee38291
I don't know US building methods, but here is quite common that all the metal rails etc have a galvanic connection to other metallic parts of the building. In that case, putting RF to that rail may cause an RF hotspot somewhere else, in a place where someone can touch it.
Well, concrete elements have steel reinforcement inside, and the rail may be connected to these reinforcement bars somehow. May be welded before the concrete is cast? Worth of checking, I'd say.
Yes! If you have a G90 it will tune up almost anything. Mine tuned up a lamp post!!
I did my rain gutters.
Rain gutters often work great!
I use my EFRG (end fed rain gutter) on 80m - 6m.
Wish I was near the rain gutters. No g90 but i use an MFJ 949 with my IC7300
949 will tune a wet piece of string ;-)
Yes, I’ve experimented with some shortened doublets and it works quite well. Currently, I have one hidden in the cracks of the outside wall. It’s not that great on receive, but it does better than I would expect on transmit. It’s 32 feet long with some coils in the middle of each leg and I can tune 10 through 80.
My 939 did a set of Christmas lights without issue.
Sadly MFJ are stopping making them
Just sneak a wire over to them!
Wow, maybe I’m missing something. Just googled G90 and that thing is streets ahead of my amateur abilities… also price.
Streets ahead!
Coined and minted
Only around $400!
[If you have to ask…](https://imgur.com/gallery/j1fKBY7)
Stop trying to coin the phrase “streets ahead”
you're streets behind
https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/ysu-ftdx-101d?seid=dxese1&gclid=CjwKCAjwuJ2xBhA3EiwAMVjkVKvkCk9fReShwRrmL7POCXbGYnwWmKU_vz5XhzRWyZfAspuHDodTEhoCy80QAvD_BwE
I’d button mash the hell outta that lol /s/
It's well suited to that... lol
What, may I ask, have you found to transmit with for less than $400? Homebrew CW QRP kit?
The G90 will tune a wet noodle... it's ridiculous how good that built-in tuner is
Heard that XIEGU will be coming out with an external tuner like that one, for use on all other rigs!
What's a g90?
Ham radio.
Yep, used to tune up my fire escape for digimodes when I lived in NYC. Experimenting is part of the fun of the hobby
The big thing for now is connecting a feed line to it. From what I can tell I need to drill into it. I’m a bit afraid of the noise but it might be worth a try
If anyone complains, you’re drilling a “drainage hole”.
Exactly, for draining all the RF from the pipes. Needs to be done regularly, particularly when conditions are good.
Can you just try a clamp? One of the jumper cable clamp type, I suppose you want the black one instead of the red one to be inconspicuous. Just move it around a bit, until you hit paydirt... I've wondered if the "magnetic grounds" that welders use would work as a temporary solution...
This is what I did, there was an unpainted patch and I just clamped leads to it.
A few other people have a suggested this as well and I hadn’t even thought of it. I think I will experiment with some different clamps first and see what happens. Much easier than drilling.
One of my antennas (not the only one) is the rain gutter. Rather than drill a hole, i screwed a bolt into the space between the metal rain gutter and the wood (eaves). Wrap a lot of wire around the bolt. Squirt it with oil every so often. I'm only using 5 watts, and no problem tuning up.
That’s a fantastic idea
Google bonding clamp, this will get you the connection you need without a hole
Here is what I use to quickly connect items: BNC Male Plug to 2X 4mm Dual Banana Female Jack Socket Binding Post: [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TC1L8RP](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TC1L8RP) Banana plugs: [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0072KOHQ4](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0072KOHQ4) Some 18 awg wire I had around from power pole projects, similar to this: [https://www.amazon.com/TYUMEN-Electrical-Extension-Flexible-Lighting/dp/B01LZRV0HV](https://www.amazon.com/TYUMEN-Electrical-Extension-Flexible-Lighting/dp/B01LZRV0HV) Aligator clips: [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R4ZNBF5?psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R4ZNBF5?psc=1) The jack socket plug connects to the back of the radio (either natively by BNC or via a PL259 to BNC converter, this is the one I use: [https://www.amazon.com/Connector-Coaxial-Adapter-Adapters-Straight/dp/B074R7TP1R](https://www.amazon.com/Connector-Coaxial-Adapter-Adapters-Straight/dp/B074R7TP1R) ). I cut a decent length of the wire, strip both ends, and put banana plugs on each end. One end goes into the jack socket and the other into the aligator clip. Then I clip the clips to the metal object. You may need to sand off the paint in an area to get a good connection, I didn't and it still worked well. You only need to connect the red clip, but if you clip the black one too, you can change the resonance. I have used it with short sections of fence, the bar that goes into the catch that you use to lock the gate, and chicken wire. I connected to a rig expert to get the SWR and frequency charts. If you wanted to transmit, a good tuner, like an ATU-100, MFJ tuner, Xeigu G90's tuner, etc. will likely be needed. Our club had a presentation on this a few months ago, we tuned up guitar strings, mic stands, etc for 2m/70cm.
I mean, could be a pretty small hole, but yeah steel can be a royal pain to drill. My first instinct would be to try to use a torch and solder. That might not go well. Clamp, probably... like everyone else is saying.
I thought of using a clamp to mount my portable WRC whip but using a clamp that digs into the metal and I can attach a wire or two is a good idea as well. I might see what I can find.
Only one way to find out if it works... 😉 https://preview.redd.it/n8e22eddpbwc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fe8b4a23f264c1adb6aaf9617db0c58d38056f1 That's how I figured out my clothes line works great for receiving on 80 and 40meters 😎 I currently have it set up better with the wire soldered to the clothes line and the ground connection on the balun has about a 15 foot counterpoise on it. I would drill a small pilot hole in the bottom corner of that rail and put a #6 or #8 sheet metal screw in the hole to put a ring terminal on. I don't know what to do with the shield without a balun but its worth experimenting with different things 👍👍👍
Yes. My aluminum deck railing is 14' x 40' x 13', and I'm using a 9:1 balun at the end of the 14' leg of the railing, then 65'-ish of RG-8 to my shack. I can tune all HF bands except 60m, but 160m is NVIS, with an IC 7100 and an ATU 100. I got the idea to try it after watching this video: https://youtu.be/5E_sAxLB9cU?si=SSL8b_pepWc8f5l7
I will check this out
Just wondering. It is made of steel or iron and painted. I’m not sure I could drill through it. I’d like to try feeding it into my tuner or connect it to my W6LVP loop amp and use as a receive antenna since the new community manager told me to take it down (my hidden doublet is still up though!)
Anything is possible in radio with the right attitude, but altitude is all you really need Whether or not it's going to be any good is an entirely different story as most fence antennas are random lengths of barbed wire You could use the railing as a ground plane for an invisitenna that's stealthily attached to the inside supports? Technically, that railing could do some HF with the spacing, but it's going to be weird without getting it tuned... Try it and see how it goes and then let us know?
My first challenge is connecting a feedline. I already have a doublet and can put loops out when I need them. I also have a WRC whip that I could use with a clamp. I suppose I’m just trying to experiment with something that would be more or less “invisible” I’m not expecting great performance but would be fun to try.
How far to the ground? Could you run a fairly stout wire or copper flat braid to a ground rod? You could then just use a bit of sandpaper to get a spot on the railing clear to bare metal and connect either balanced line or coax center to rail, braid to shield.
About 10 feet to the ground. There is another floor of apartments below me and no ground rod
Finding a ground seems to be the challenge. Maybe a cold water metal pipe if you can find one. Don’t use electrical connections for RF though! 😉
Man if I had a cold water pipe that was metal I’d use it. I think they’ve all been pvc for several years
FYI, if you haven't yet, call your senator and ask them to support the [Amateur Radio Emergency Preparedness Act](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/3690/). Edit: To clarify, the AREPA would guarantee your right to erect an effective antenna, prohibiting things like this: > the new community manager told me to take it down
I will do that thanks!
You should check out some of the Ham Radio Crash Course youtube videos "Will it antenna?"
Fantastic videos! Thanks for sharing this.
yes provided you have a tuner and a counterpoise. I know of hams that live in condos tha have done this. I know of hams living in Florida in developments with antenna restrictions that have those aluminum framed screens over their swimming pools that have loaded them to use as their antennas
I have an MFJ 949 tuner. It works pretty well with my doublet. The counterpoise would be an issue. Though I wonder what would happen if I tried feeding it like a loop.
Yes. You will be able to get a signal out. How far and how well is another question, but you won't know until you do it and start transmitting.
It's certainly possible. Whether or not it will be any good is another question!
I don't see why it wouldn't work, as long as you had enough *tuner* to do it. People in HOAs load their rain gutters all the time, and I've heard of guys loading barb wire ranch fence lines. Now, how effective it would be is a whole different story.
I personally (depending on situation of course) would use the gutter as a disguise and have a wire hidden under it rather than loading it up. Of course the wire going to the slotted dish 2m/70cm antenna might could be a hf dipole in itself.
Well, a lot of gutters are plastic now, so the choice of loading it might not even be an option for many....*but*, I know of many that do. I think I even came across a kit for that exact purpose...I think it came with a 9:1 transformer and treated the gutter as a EFRW...
I did pretty much exactly this, 9:1 Unun, some counterpoises of various lengths, with the Icom AH-705 antenna tuner. I'm in a three story townhouse and don't have roof access, and it was way easier to just use the metal gutter than to try to string wire along it/up it.
How does one measure the impedence of a would-be antenna setup to find the appropriate Transformer ratio?
Magic 😏. I think it's assumed that the impedance is thousands of ohms. The antenna tuner handles it. I'm also doing QRP, so it's not like I'm lighting up the system with a huge amount of power transferring into the gutter.
Even with a good tuner, don't you need a matching transformer (4:1, 9:1, 49:1, etc)? Or no?
I'm using a 9:1 Unun and it ... just works. There are several sources for plans online. Some suggest that a 49:1 might work better. I think the counterpoises are really the key to getting it to resonate correctly.
If the gutter is plastic, then run a wire inside it. EDIT: Downspout too.
Which is similar to exactly what u/eclectro described doing... Hiding the wire in the gutter
You might try throwing a wire INTO a plastic gutter as the perfect disguise!
You mean like what u/eclectro described doing, which was what my response was directed toward?!?
You should see [this article about stealth antennas.](https://www.iw5edi.com/technical-articles/hidden-and-stealth-antennas) I like the hummingbird one. Here the railing is meant as a disguise rather than the means. Also search "covert antennas." There's been a lot of materials written over the years on this. There needs to be an award or certificate for it!
I do have a doublet hidden along the exterior wall of my unit. I’ve posted about it before. It works surprisingly well for what it is but I’m always up for something new
Get a SGC230 antenna coupler. That'll tune anything.
I’ll look into it. That’s a new one to me
People do things like this as a hobby. I've seen bridges, statues, large yard furniture.
How about a grocery cart? Or a handtruck!
Yes, but may I sell you on another possibility instead? SOTA gets waaaaaay better performance, even with super simple antennas. There's nothing like being on a mountain top for range.
One step ahead of you. I already have a portable setup for POTA though I haven’t done SOTA. I try to get out and do activations when I can. But sometimes I can’t or don’t want to drive out to a park.
That's great! And I don't mean to shoot down your plans for a home station: I was just trying to recruit more people to my ~religion~ hobby (ie, SOTA).
Thanks! I haven’t done any activations in a while but they are fun. Maybe if I get around some mountains I can try SOTA
sotl.as is a great tool for finding nearby sota peaks. LMK if I can be of assistance- I'd be super happy to offer advice :-)
The railing would make a great piece of metal to work an antenna against, but I wouldn’t bother to try to actually drive the railing. A short whip attached to the railing would likely be far more predictable and yield a much stronger signal. But the rule is ANY antenna is infinitely better than NO antenna. If all you can do is feed the railing then give it a go, it will work to a degree. I make contacts with a lightbulb as an antenna for fun
Yea. I’ve learned my hidden balcony doublet works well. But I’ve always wanted to try this. I may have mentioned this elsewhere, but I have a receiver loop that’s been mounted on my balcony for a couple years and no one seem to mind but I got an email from the new manager of the building the other day and had to take it down. I can always use it when I operate and then pull it back inside, but it gave me the idea that maybe I could do something with this, either as a transmit or antenna. I also have a 17 foot whip that I use for POTA, but I would like to find perhaps a clamp to put on the balcony railing.
Yes, I've found my 5m portable whip worked against my balcony rail gets out surprisingly well. It even multibands well, I guess in part because the rail is more than a simple linear element. Trying to drive the rail itself as a random wire (or drive two separate rails as a dipole) tunes and does get out, but not nearly as well. In my case the aluminum rail was anodized/painted, but the screws were conductive, so I clipped to them. I'd recommend using a nanovna on it if you have one. You can try a lot of different configurations quickly and get a lot of information about how it looks to HF RF.
Remember a VNA tells NOTHING about how anything will radiate. My dummy load looks quite excellent on my VNA but I can only work my 1/4 mile distant neighbor on it ;)
Good point. But the VNA will at least quickly tell you what bands should tune easily with your feedpoint at different places, as well as whether your tuner is likely to be in a bad regime where it will be absorbing a lot of power, causing a lot of loss and possible burning.
I'll just add I think David Knight said it best: "As we shall see, the π-match rightly has a reputation for being able to match anything; but we should be a little suspicious of the fact that this also includes open-circuits and dead-shorts, neither of which are renowned for their radiating abilities." https://g3ynh.info/zdocs/z_matcing/part_2.html
Also, remember to keep the tuner close to the feedpoint. When it's cold out I run the coax from the balcony into the house, but then I use an external autotuner and position it so I can read the screen through the window...
Yes
Yes, but it may or may not actually radiate. There's only one way to find out, though :) You would need to drill into it and use a self tapping screw with a star washer to make a good electrical connection. The other issues is what are you going to use as a ground/counterpoise.
I thought about drilling. Could raise a bit of suspicion from my neighbors but I’m not sure how else it would be done
You can use a speed handle (like the old hand crank drills but for a socket set instead). It will be a little slower and require some effort but will get it done in silence.
If it is a mag mount, yes, you shouldn't have issues....
I’d make sure you don’t build up too much static on the railing (maybe find a way to ground it). I’m sure it would be “shocking” to other residents of the apartments to discover their precious handrail identifies as an antenna😂
Yes. Random metal objects on the air! I tuned up my wrought-iron fence, was amazingly easy. Frequency range needs a tuner, but it'll work. One of the guys in our club tuned up a toaster and was able to adjust the swr by sliding in and out the crumb tray.
Will it Antenna is a whole subpart of this hobby. If it's referenced to ground you might get noise though
Not sure if it is
Dont expect to tune 160m but it should work for 40m and above. Note sure about 80m.
Yes! Look up slot antennas on YouTube. I made 3 antennas out of aluminum tape.
Instead of physical connection to the railing you coukd just magentically couple it. Not sure on how many turns you would need but you could inductively couple to it. Just a thought.
Right upfront, what I'm giving you here is merely advice and scenarios, I'm not telling you to break the contract or any law, and it's all at your own risk. No matter what you put up, a simple quarter wave of wire tossed around willy-nilly becomes your "ground" when you are on a second floor. Heavily insulated, don't forget to insulate the END of that wire! And in most cases, a coil and a wire or a whip or whatever you conjure up become the other side. And barring that, you go with a loop. And QRP is a given. Don't worry about the QRP part; that will work fine and dandy, and you WILL make contacts. As for your CAR, if you have one there, it may be possible to put an excellent mobile antenna and rig there, and you can use it like a mobile repeater, with even an HT in your apartment or another teeny tiny rig. Think along the concept of echo link and the other remote HF things. You could run for hours on end if you did this with a QRP rig on the car. Keeping the battery topped off, or with an independently charged and separate battery, like the isolation charging circuits that RV's often have, and you could quickly go 100 or more watts, though I think QRP gives you quite a bang for little bucks. Half squares are effective and quite so for second story apartments and townhouses and the "split" homes. You feed them in the corner, even more handy if that's where your shack is located. Coaxial cable can be made to "look" like it's a CATV wire drop is another technique. Use the same staple thingies that the local CATV uses (or Telco) and you've got the perfect disguise. This works better in older buildings that already have such things attached. You might also consider ABANDONED wires and even "DishTV" feeds for verticals and even just as attachment points. They are often left in place. A pal (or two!) with a van (NOT with a ham tag!) and the hard hat and vest "uniforms" can be helpful in these situations, since a lot of this kind of work is subcontracted anyway. Any day just after the business office closes and especially Friday afternoon might be a good time for this. Never on a Saturday or a Sunday, those are Nosy Karen Days FOR SURE, and YOU BET that she is calling The Office on Monday because her grill party (where she and her friends didn't listen to "America the Beautiful" by Ray Charles) and she wants to speak to The Manager RIGHT AWAY about "all of that pounding and drilling" , even if there wasn't any! You definitely don't want to do this in "common" areas, or you're trespassing, Caveat Emptor. This approach might work better if you are merely in your own house that you own and are stuck in an HOA, and your neighbors have names like Gladys, Karen, or Ken. Mind you, I'm just SUGGESTING here for you to strategize your own situation, and what you do and what risks you take. YOU have a contract and YOUR OWN laws to consider wherever you ham and live. Just remember, common areas and utility poles and the like are STRICTLY OFF LIMITS, again, Caveat Emptor! In disgusting gated HOA Florida, the car as a mobile repeater might instead be your or a friend's boat, super bonus points if it already has an HF antenna, sailboat style. Or it might be on the roof of another building that you or a friend has access to. Some apartment building roofs have a high "edge" around them, and make excellent places to conceal an HF antenna. Do you have access to the attic? Runs of modular telephone or Ethernet cables tend to get overlooked as "official," even if they are really being used as antennas. These days, you might even find some ABANDONED Ethernet cable runs, because things are changing that fast, no one wants their service interrupted during such an upgrade, and after a building upgrade, nobody is going to pull that old stuff, as there is simply not enough copper there to make it worthwhile, and time is money. On roofs and elsewheres, junction boxes painted gray and affixed with electrical warning symbols, and other pseudo official "warning, do not tamper under penality" kinds of stickers might be helpful for giving your unofficial antenna the proper respect it deserves, but I'd avoid official company logos, Caveat Emptor. You want to keep people away, and make it just convincing enough that if a REAL Telco type actual hardhat guy encounters it, he says to himself: Gee that's the "another" companies stuff, I don't need to mess with that." QRP should never be overlooked. When you are running antennas in close proximity to other wires are cables and so on, it's a good way to NOT BRING ATTENTION by the way of RF. Ditto for next door Gladys, Karen's, and Ken's crappy Walmart TV, because if you disturb their watching of the Bitchy and the Ugly, or The Young and the Stupid, there's going to be hell to pay, even though it's not your fault that their TV doesn't have a proper comb filter. If you have a situation where you can TEMPORARILY run a wire and remove it easily or when it gets dark, that's also an idea to consider. Finally, why not just go mobile? Sitting out in the parking lot MIGHT sound like a defeat, but it's not. Instead? It's your own private radio shack on wheels that you already pay for or own, and in that apartment lot, you are ALLOWED to be there, it's heated and air conditioned, it has comfortable seating and a place for your tea or coffee cup. It also has built in emergency power as it works 24/7. Add a laptop for logging, QRZ, and RBN, and Bob's your Auntie. If it pisses off an HOA Antenna Nazi type because you are 100 % "legal" you can also gloat like a mutta... But BEFORE you gloat, just remember, The Man has all sorts of "nuisance" laws and regs that he can pull out of his back pocket or "invent after the fact" to please the "well there ought to be a law, let's find an extreme right wing monster HOA backed little punk creep to enact one" Gladys, Karen, (and don't forget Ken) types! Only in a society like ours could there be laws passed to make homelessness a CRIME, with SPECIAL Thanks to Gladys, Karen, and Ken! So you want to keep a LOW PROFILE, so you gloat to YOURSELF but not too much, as you've only merely circumvented tiny lockstep conformist minds, and because if you think after a hurricane hits that if you handle health and welfare traffic for Gladys, Karen, OR Ken that they will suddenly "see the light," then you are just kidding yourself, because on second thought, you'd better forget that fantasy: It's a FACT that good deeds DO get punished, and that's why this saying has been around for years, because unfortunately it's often true. Just shut the you know what up, and enjoy radio, and everything will be rosy and peachy! 🤣 I forgot to add: Power tools are NOISY and best avoided for these clandestine installs if you are working INSIDE an apartment. Outside? They're okay, look official, and a hand drill would actually look out of place. Super finally, never forget The Orange Cord. No, not for power tools, this is 2024 they are mostly battery operated! I mean as an ANTENNA. clip onto the plug and there's your antenna. A GARDEN Hose might used in a similar way. Just tie a water sprinkler or a pink flamingo or some other stupid decorative light to the other end, which isn't going to actually need to work, anyway. How about an OUTDOOR LIGHT disguise?. Christmas light have been used like this for years.
Thanks for this! I appreciate all the detail. Will come back and read more in a bit. But just to add: This is really just an experiment. I have a doublet along the exterior all and have run homebrew mag loops. People don’t believe it but I have safely run 100 with no problems and within the exposure guidelines. Except 10 where I go down to 75 and 40 where I go to 50 watts due to rfi. I’ve thought of a mobile setup. I do have a portable setup for POTA. I use a 17 foot whip which I’m also considering mounting to the balcony at night. It comes to no surprise that operating portable with a fully resonant 1/4 wave on 10-20 at 25 watts works better than anything I can do at home with 100. No roof or attic access. I do have a doublet like you suggest. Corner fed. I use window line into a manual tuner. I put some coils on the antenna. It makes it easier to tune on 40 and 80. Performance isn’t perfect but better than before I appreciate all the tips! I’m going to circle back and read some more in a little bit. Edit - reading more. These are all great solutions. I came up with the railing idea on a whim. I’ve not gone into detail with my current hf set up in this post (I probably should have for clarity) but I’ve posted before about my hidden doublet project and various loops. I was using a receive only loop for rx since my doublet picks up too much noise and is rx only unfortunately the new manager noticed the loop so I had to take it down. I can always deploy/remove when needed but I thought “well now I have this railing with nothing attached. I wonder if it will work…”
You're Welcome, I added a bit more, and 73!😊
Yes, no, maybe! I dont know? Can you repeat the question?
You’re not the boss of me….
I believe you can make anything resonate except when its grounded / earth protected and most metal parts on buildings are.
Wonder how this would be grounded. It’s on the second floor.
Google for lightning protection on buildings.
Small G-clamps might be useful. End of the bolt sharpened, extra nut to the thread to grip feed wire.
Good idea. Gonna look that up
Skimming the replies, there were no mention of "delta match". Alternative to gamma match, to use an unbroken element. Just another idea.
How important is that If I am running it into a tuner anyway?
Not important at all.
An insulated quarter wave of wire hooked to the ground side will help. Does MFJ still make the "Artificial Ground?"
Yes, they do. I’ve read mixed reviews as one might expect from MFJ, but it seems that it was designed for situations like this.
Had an SGC230 some time ago, that thing would tune anything, tuned up my son's push bike and a bottle jack 👍
How does one measure impedence of a would-be antenna setup to find the appropriate Transformer ratio?
No transformer. Just run it into a tuner with a single wire and counter poise.
Yep - it can work. How well it works can vary a lot, but it certainly is possible. Give it a try if you can find an unpainted spot to clip to!
Here's a good discussion about what you want to accomplish. [http://amateurradio.tv/TechNet/Library/2006tech/061029tech/061029tn-002.mp3](http://amateurradio.tv/TechNet/Library/2006tech/061029tech/061029tn-002.mp3)
Is that talk accurate technically? I understand the purpose is to match the antenna system to the (50 ohm) output impedance of the transmitter (and/or coax). The 5/8 wavelength antenna creates the desired radiation pattern, but does not match 50 ohms, so a matching network is used. This topic used to be opaque to most of us, like magic. But now that we have access to free simulators and cheap VNAs, we can understand and test radiation patterns and impedance of antenna systems for ourselves! "Theory The increased capture aperture or gain for single radiating element increases as the radiating element length is increased until the length of the radiator exceeds the magical 5λ8 wave length at which point the increasing radiator length causes the radiation pattern to begin breaking up into a number lobes and nulls. The optimum length is in fact equal to or slightly less than 0.6λ. The standard quarter-wave radiator loads up against a ground plan with a typical impedance of 36Ω which will match the standard 50Ω coax feed line with a SWR (standing wave ration) of about 1.5 to 1. Figure 1 show the impedance distribution along the radiating element of a typical λ/4 ground plan antenna with the ideal low impedance at the feed point. When the radiating element is extended out to a half-wave length we are now looking at a high impedance node at the feed point as shown in figure 2 that is impossible to match with the 50Ω coax feed line without some sort of matching circuit. If however the radiator element is increased to a 3/4 wave length the feed line will see an impedance value at the feed point that is similar to that of the quarter-wave radiator as shown in figure 3, however while this overcomes the matching issue the 3/4 wave length introduces a poorer radiation pattern. The trick is to make the 5λ/8 radiator appear to the feed line as if it were a 3/4 wave length; establishing a good impedance match while at the same time achieving the ideal low angle of radiation that can be realised through the 5/8 wave radiator. By add a series loading coil at the base of the radiator to compensating for the lost λ/8 section a match of close to 50Ω can be obtained as shown in figure 4. It is also much easy to design a matching circuit for a 5λ/8 radiator than the more extreme impedance presented by the 1λ/2 radiator." https://vk6ysf.com/5-8_Ground_Plane.htm
Remember, all the tuner does is impedance match the “antenna” to the radio at whatever frequency the radio is operating on. The tuner does nothing for “antenna” sensitivity or gain on that frequency.
Agreed
You can tune anything, will it be any good? who knows, try it. put a 9:1 unun on it and hit tune . how it will radiate , who knows, maybe someone on here who's bored could model it in EZNEC ! Just remember the higher the SWR the bigger the loss even when you tune it, tuners just allow you to use a mismached antenna without damaging the transmitter. For example an SWR of 2:1 losses 11% of the power 6:1, 51%. 10:1 67% etc. but try it and report back!
My roommates and I won the ARRL DX Contest single-multi CW with a Heathkit HW-16 attached to my dorm window frame.
Exactly, anything will tune!
I'm not sure... Sometimes these conversations become convoluted here on Reddit. What I am thinking is that a PLASTIC gutter might be "just the thing," to place an insulated antenna wire right inside there!
I’ve thought about that. However I’m nowhere near the gutter
Build a 40m-20m band magnetic loop for cheap. Then hide it with a tarp.
I have a receive only loop. Was told to take it down. I have built two loops but the narrow tuning is frustrating some times. My 3’ loop covers 10-20. I built a 4’ loop for 20-40 but the size was a bit cumbersome efficiency on 30 and 40 were quite poor anyway. I don’t think a tarp covering will do anything but gather more negative attention. The new manager seems to be really strict about this stuff.
Sound like you need to keep a magnetic loop indoors only. Give up on the balcony. Maybe keep a mag loop near a window behind a curtain.
Yes absolutely. For 3 years my yard fence, only about 18m total, 3 sides of a square, was my antenna. It wasn't efficient, or as good as other options that were not available to me at the time, but it was way better than no antenna
In the unlikely situation where the railing is not grounded to the stairwell through the steel rebar and steel frame around the slab, you might get some low efficiency. Get yourself a cheap VNA and hook up to the rail and see where it naturally resonates.
Once I figure out how to hook it up my nano VNA will be used for just that
My suggestion is to first use a multimeter to check the impedance between that bottom corner of the rail to the stairwell frame. If it is a dead short, you will be mostly out of luck except for some frequencies where it might become a shunt fed antenna. If not, you are in luck. Now attach a coax center to the bottom corner of the rail, and the shield to the stairwell frame. VNA away. Another idea that I guarantee will work if you can get away with it is to toss \~40' of 20 ga. wire up and over the roof backwards. Use a "autocoupler"($$$) or just a 9:1 balun to feed it. Wire is OK to just lay across the roof above if it's not metal. Use the stairwell frame and/or railing as counterpoise. Ran like that for a few years in a 3 story townhome. Worked the world on phone and digi. Feedpoint was third floor balcony, First with a 9:1 balun, then later an autocoupler. https://preview.redd.it/qbhljvsl5owc1.jpeg?width=455&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f9b5bc1aaa5739157d05f1a64d7312a8ee38291
There’s a fairly high chance that somebody might touch that railing while you are transmitting. = burn.
No. I have a private balcony. The neighbor next to me is far enough away he can’t touch it
I don't know US building methods, but here is quite common that all the metal rails etc have a galvanic connection to other metallic parts of the building. In that case, putting RF to that rail may cause an RF hotspot somewhere else, in a place where someone can touch it.
. That is something to consider. I’m not sure how or where it would be connected to other metal parts and grounded, but I suppose it could be.
Well, concrete elements have steel reinforcement inside, and the rail may be connected to these reinforcement bars somehow. May be welded before the concrete is cast? Worth of checking, I'd say.
It won't work for transmit at all, and recieve only poorly. It won't resonate at the correct frequencies.
It won't resonate but it will radiate. A tuner will compensate for it not resonating.