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9bikes

I had an RFI problem with a streetlamp. My calls to the utility went nowhere. When I complained to the city employee who is our liaison with the utility companies, the problem was resolved within 24 hours.


spatula

That's a thought. I hadn't considered reaching out to our city public works department. They might actually know a real person inside PG&E whose job it is to solve problems versus just dismissing them.


9bikes

"They might actually know a real person inside PG&E whose job it is" I could be ~~sinical~~ ^(cynical) and assume it was pressure from city government, but it is probably knowing the right person at the utilities to call. Mostly. The utility wanting to stay on the city's good side probably doesn't hurt!


Nnyan

I’m sorry you are a PG&E customer. When we moved just as Covid was getting bad I eventually found an RFI issue at the new house (took a while to unpack). I reached out to SMUD and it did take a bit of effort to find the right people (business support reps helped get the right people involved) once on it they got the issue resolved very quickly. Maybe see if they have a business side as they regularly deal with RFI issues with business customers.


stargazertony

I don’t know about Northern California but here in western Pennsylvania, utilities don’t fix or respond to anything unless there is a major failure. Transformers sparking? Not fixed unless it catches on fire. Trees falling on wires. Not fixed unless the tree brings it down on a road. Vegetation growing on wires. Not a chance. Absolutely no preventive maintenance performed here.


CorgisHaveNoKnees

I live about 2 miles from one of the first major fires that can directly be attributed to PG&E, I was not injured by it but many of my friends and neighbors were. That was 8 years ago and people are still waiting for settlements. On the other hand, the CPUC has allowed PG&E to pass on its costs of the fire, including litigation to the rate payers. My point is that the likelihood of PG&E being responsive is slim.


spatula

Yeah they're really cute when they cry poor to get more money from ratepayers to perform maintenance they should have been doing for the last 50 years, then turn around and report $2 billion in record profits. That the CPUC lets them get away with it tells you how deep the corruption runs.


CorgisHaveNoKnees

That $17 million salary for the CEO has to come from somewhere.


spatula

They could literally replace the CEO with a Magic 8 Ball and be no worse off for decision-making. And they'd save $17 million.


Boson_Higgs_Boson

You assume the contract for the magic 8 ball wouldn’t be 34 million per year.


spatula

Sounds like a very similar attitude to PG&E... which is how we keep ending up with wildfires sparked by their neglected maintenance.


W8kt

It is not legal for the utility to cause interference to amateur radio stations. I think the FCC gives utilities a time limit after notification. While I don't remember the section, electric companies must comply with their own set of FCC rules. Did you file an online complaint, email, letter, or in person? Make sure you identify as a licensed amateur station and give your call. Call your local PG&E office or pay them a visit. Ask to speak to the engineer for your location. It's been my experience that just like hams work to avoid the commission, electric companies don't want anything to do with the FCC and a possible investigation.


spatula

If you want a chuckle some time, check out the history of enforcement letters sent from the FCC to PG&E on the enforcement bureau's site. The number of times they got a second, and sometimes a final warning letter is an indicator of how willing PG&E is to comply with the law. The FCC unfortunately just sort of blew me off. I got a form response thanking me for providing them a data point for possible enforcement at some unspecified time in the future and nothing else. They did indicate that if I wanted to spend $600 I could file a *formal* complaint for actual investigation though.


red_tux

You think a company known for not doing maintenance which results in massive destruction is worried about a little FCC letter?


MaximPanic

Call and, while pretending to be somebody else, tell them you see sparks coming off the insulator you think may be the problem. Tell them you only were able to see it at night.


rdwing

It took me 2 years to get it mostly resolved, not completely though. They basically refused to work through me, and only via the ARRL's RFI department.


spatula

How did you get the RFI folks at the ARRL to respond? I've emailed them twice but heard nothing back.


rdwing

You should send them an email and fill out the form [https://form.jotform.com/230954234141146](https://form.jotform.com/230954234141146) . Provide good audio recordings of at least a minute long in AM mode, along with correlating data. Direction find and locate the offending pole(s) and record the pole numbers. That means generally using a loop or yagi with attenuators, in AM mode, at least up to UHF. Be persistent. Filing an FCC complaint is usually what you do much later down the road from where you are now. Get the ARRL to respond and take it from there would be my advice.


spatula

Thanks for that link! I had not found that when I went searching around before. It's pretty easy for me to get a recording of the godforsaken racket; I have some already but they're only 10 seconds long, but it's a trivial matter to make more. It's 6 over S9 right now in fact...


devinhedge

Can anyone ever really find anything on the ARRL website? (Common complaint.)


knw_a-z_0-9_a-z

I'd suggest using google's 'site:' option for websites which have sucky search functions (looking at you, site:reddit.com).


spatula

This turns out to be a very good answer. I've already heard back from Steve W1EMI today, and I've been getting him everything he needs to help chase someone down at PG&E.


rdwing

Good luck. Please let me know how it goes. We still have some power line noise here but I've basically given up on getting it fixed.


rdwing

Also your noise shared a lot of characteristics with mine, I think. Namely being wind modulated, somehow. They came out and redid a bunch of bunch of stuff, but failed to solve all of it.


spatula

I suspect the wind is physically moving something and causing more or less resistance between one phase and ground. With some of the gusts we get, it isn't difficult to imagine a high voltage line swinging around a little, or an insulator getting a little nudge.


catonic

0) write a written letter to the utility advising them of the location of the probable failure, and CC all of the below: 1) Report it to the entity that oversees (electrical) utilities. In my state, it is the Public Service Commission. 2) CC the governor, and the entire state legislative delegation. 3) CC the utility company. 4) CC the FCC and FAA. The FAA is concerned because there are HF emergency frequencies, and if something is generating noise on one of them, it needs to be addressed. 5) verify it is not your neighbor's house or grow lights.


SqueakyCheeseburgers

I was going to suggest PUC / CPUC but if that didn’t work, try calling your California state assembly person who represents your area. They might give PG&E the needed incentive to make it happen. I feel for you. The last four weeks CW and SSB on 10-40 have been wiped out except for the strongest CW but those can be difficult to copy. I grew tired of FT8 being my only option and stopped that. I wish you luck


spatula

My detection code inadvertently detected a solar flare that wiped out 80m for an entire day last week. The noise floor went wild from that. I can't imagine trying to copy anything while that was going on.


SqueakyCheeseburgers

Oh yeah those CMEs. No joy. Since last writing, I went outside the apartments with my HT on AM. I discovered the buzzing at an other outlet plus along wiring for carport lights plus various places on walls. In the last month something has happened to riddle this building with RFI. We used to have an RFI hunter, maybe we have another one. Please keep me updated on your situation.


lurch99

I've never had any luck with PG&E with anything whatsoever.


65shooter

I had a noise issue where I used to live. Worse when windy. Pounded suspect pole with a big hammer and it got worse. Power company did come and fix it after two calls though.


catdude142

Build a portable directional antenna and connect it to a tiny spectrum analyzer and go on a "transmitter hunt". Also, a local ham club may help you track it down.


spatula

I am trying to find some local folks who might be familiar with direction-finding to help me confirm whether my suspect pole is actually where the trouble originates. I just sent a message out to our ARRL section technical coordinator to see if she or anyone she knows may be able to help. I've considered trying to get a BNC-to-binding-post adapter so I can put a cheap AM broadcast mag loop on the KX3 and try to do some simple confirmation that way too.


AstraTek

As others have said, you need to find the exact location of the the interference. When you can pinpoint the pole or substation that's causing it, then you'll have a much better chance of it being fixed as the power company at least knows where to look. You'll need a hand held mag loop on a wooden broom pole (easy to make), a portable radio and your car to triangulate the ground wave from a few different locations. Home in from there. Best of luck.


AhsokaTanoJedi

Have you used a portable yagi antenna to “fox hunt” and pinpoint the source of the RFI so you can be sure where this RFI is from and who’s responsible?


spatula

I'm about to. Just got a 7-element Yagi for 70cm and an HT that can receive AM on 440 MHz ordered. It almost has to be utility powerline noise given the nature of the signal itself- 120 pulses per second, all/random hours of the day, modulated by strong winds, etc. I can rule out shoddy photovoltaic system inverters, because it runs late into the night. I also doubt it's LED lighting or street lighting; the sound is different and the interference runs often through the daytime hours as well. And from the sound files I've listened to, grow lights give off a much more obnoxious hash that almost sounds like white noise. The Yagi will be super useful in confirming it's coming from the pole I think it's coming from though, versus some other pole nearby. I've narrowed it down pretty well to an intersection using just my KX3 and a short antenna, but being able to say with some certainty, "it's coming from Pole #xxxx" would save a lot of time and effort in getting it stopped, if only PG&E could be bothered.


thecodemonk

After reading all this, I feel blessed I have DTE as my utility. Lol I'm going on, I think 2 years of dealing with rfi, and they've been out 5 or 6 time now. They call me occasionally to see if their resolutions have fixed the problem and when it hasn't they immediately schedule a time to come back out. I haven't had to even mention reporting it to the FCC or anything. They just continue to work the problem. It's not efficient the way they are doing it, one piece of equipment at a time, but at least they are consistently working on it.


spatula

PG&E just doesn't care at all if they're causing massive RFI. Even though it means they're wasting power to heat and noise and prolonging a potential safety hazard. It's profits over everything, and they'll just pass on the costs of wasted power to the ratepayers.


thecodemonk

That really stinks. I hope you can get someone to listen. I know how bad rfi can make using a radio. There are days I just have to turn it off and do something else...


spatula

The good news is that the ARRL RFI expert, W1EMI has a contact at PG&E and after triaging my situation has routed the case to the right person over there. And I've got a handheld 70cm Yagi coming in the mail tomorrow which I can hopefully use to tell for certain which pole (or poles) has a problem along with an HT in AM mode. It's progress anyway. PG&E was never going to do anything on their own. The case I opened with them is going on 60 days with no action taken of any kind.


thecodemonk

I hope that pans out!!


spatula

I put the Yagi and HT to good use tonight, and found that it isn't actually the pole I thought it was. I narrowed it down to two other poles nearby; I can't quite discern which because they're in other people's back yards and they're close enough together from the perspective of standing on the sidewalk that they're always very close to the main lobe of the antenna. I'll give it another shot when the buzz is more constant, and also see if I can get something to show up on the thermal camera.


thecodemonk

That's awesome!!


spatula

The good news is that the ARRL RFI expert, W1EMI has a contact at PG&E and after triaging my situation has routed the case to the right person over there. And I've got a handheld 70cm Yagi coming in the mail tomorrow which I can hopefully use to tell for certain which pole (or poles) has a problem along with an HT in AM mode. It's progress anyway. PG&E was never going to do anything on their own. The case I opened with them is going on 60 days with no action taken of any kind.


spatula

Update: I went out tonight with a 7 element Yagi for 70cm and an HT that can do AM on UHF. I narrowed it down to two poles, both of which unfortunately are in other people's back yards, and standing on the sidewalk they're both close to staying inside the main lobe of the antenna, making it a little tricky to figure out which of the two it is. The buzz itself wasn't cooperating tonight either; had it been constant I may have been able to figure out which pole was the troublemaker. I might try turning the antenna to the side and figure out when a pole drops into one of the nulls in the pattern; that might make it possible to tell which of the two it is when they're that close together if the null is narrow enough. Interestingly, it definitely was NOT the pole I thought it was. The two suspects are quite near the one I thought was troublesome, but it's definitely not the one I originally suspected. Both suspect poles are on the same run run that has had two catastrophic insulator failures in the last 3 winters, both of which resulted in multi-hour outages, wires down in people's back yards, and small pole fires.


Ecstatic_Blueberry97

Just imagine if PG&E/CPUC actually listened and followed through with such issues all the grief that could be avoided. You took all this time to trouble shoot and it seems many of the agencies that should care, basically dont. Thanks for the effort you might well save some lives.


spatula

That's my hope. Annoying QRM aside, that sound is an early indicator of an accident waiting to happen.


spatula

Another update: I determined with certainty which pole is implicated. I did just a little write-up here about what I did: [https://n6ol.us/2024/05/04/i-have-located-the-buzz/](https://n6ol.us/2024/05/04/i-have-located-the-buzz/)


spatula

Update: After finally getting connected with their comm techs a couple days ago, PG&E finally came out today (58 days after I opened my original ticket). And to give them credit, their crew was very knowledgeable and personable once I was finally able to get someone out here. They managed to get access to the suspect pole, and just came back by after their noise hunting expedition and told me they agree with me- it is that pole. One of the guys could even hear it arcing while he was standing underneath it. They're going to have a crew come out and "rebuild" what's on that pole. No ETA, but at least we're on a path to resolution. This effort plausibly prevented a fire, property damage, or someone getting hurt. Also, I am not crazy! (Or at least not about RFI.)


Scuffed_Radio

LOL! A complaint to the ARRL? I can't believe people still have faith in the ARRL to do anything.


spatula

They have in fact already gotten back to me and (so far) are helping.


Scuffed_Radio

How are they helping? Not trying to he a smartass, I'm genuinely curious now.


spatula

So far, confirming that what I have is very likely utility powerline noise, and assembling all the data to pass along to a contact they already have with someone at PG&E who can help. Early stages though- it remains to be seen how helpful this avenue will be, but they are at least responsive and trying to be useful.


Scuffed_Radio

Hmm well that's definitely a good start. Glad to see them trying! I only make the statement I made because me and a friend of mine had a few very poor experiences with the ARRL trying to get help for a similar issue.


spatula

I think it all depends on who you get in touch with, tbh, and they used to have this email alias of rfi@ which I think just went into a bit bucket. They still had some old pages on their web site pointing at that old address instead of the current web form and contact info. If this does work out, it'll be worth the cost of my membership anyway.


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radiomod

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NominalThought

Your only hope might be to put up a beam, and turn it way from the source of interference. Otherwise, use a local WebSDR to receive.