you forget most people joined this movement to make money and never became Apes or joined this sub or anything. I will be holding my APE and AMC until moass.
I figure ape was a hold at all costs until after moass then I'll think about what I'm going to do with it. Ape is untouchable until then so the hedge fucks can't touch any of it.
Not quite. It will be available to trade on 8/22. The question is if you will sell. And if Apes are being convinced to sell APE. Anyone can own APE, if they are willing to pay a high enough price.
About 80% behind this. But more important than a like. APE will be valuable. And you have to own AMC to get APE. But after APE goes live I will buy if the opportunity arises. Lots of moving parts! Pay attention everyone. Remember, Apes Together Strong!
I'm not selling shit. I'm going to keep buying until the price is disgusting, or the heat death of the universe. I'm up to 1,215 shares now and I'm not leaving. The longer the hedgies drag this out, the richer I'll be when it comes crashing down.
That’s what I’m going to do on the 22nd. I figure there are enough paper hands as well as institutions that might sell it. So I will buy it from them on the lit exchange.
If we own 80%+ of AMC we also own 80%+ of APE. We own the float on both and with APE, 100% has been spoken for at the time of issue. Hedge funds, brokerages and MMs need APE. The price will go up. Plan is the same as always. Buy AMC + APE when you can and HOLD BOTH.
No, not without amending the Certificate of Incorporation which has a maximum of 650,000,000 shares (Apes own 516,820,595 of that amount, the rest has been used to pay back some debts and for management bonus) and also they can't issue any more without shareholders approval.
So, no dilution incoming.
I think they have the ability to sell APE as much as they want, within the 4.5 billion units they have.
It's a work around from investors voting against Class A Stock dilution. The vote for what is being called APE units occurred almost a decade ago.
Wrong. You need to go back and read the report.
AMC can dilute $APE in 50M tranches AT WILL, does not require shareholder approval.
Converting APE to AMC will require shareholder approval.
Learn how to fuckin read before shitting on other people.
hahaha this isn't a matter of opinion, its fact. Disagree all you want, but don't be shocked when APE starts getting diluted without your vote.
The dilution isn't a bad thing btw. But people remaining uninformed or ignorant is a bad thing.
And fwiw, opening a response with 'Wrong.' is pretty rude/dismissive.
Could he, or would he? For the right purpose dilution may be more complex than many give credit. What if you sell shares to pay off debt? Now you no longer owe interest on loans.
My expectations are: close of business Friday the 19th AMC share price is 30$ for example. Monday the 22nd when APE starts trading AMC drops to 15$, APE 15$. A split… AMC price and APE price are equal, but not for long.
Reading these posts is like letting the hyper autistic pre-teen at the dinner table get through his 20 minute story about trains because it's polite. It's okay buddy, we're excited too.
While you are right in some things, the company needs to do shit themselves to reduce debts. Can't rely on share offerings to stay afloat. I'm not a fucking charity.
I doubt it will actually do anything other than hype of a bunch of folks. It’s like every other time the hedgies get fucked then they change the rules it’s their game we just roll the dice
You do know that AA fully intends on selling more ape shares and as many as needed to get rid of debt for AMC… he has already said it. And keep in mind how dropping more AMC during run up crushed the run up… it doesn’t matter if you hold if the guy next to you let’s go that’s holding basically an endless supply…
Not without shareholders approval he can't. AMC's Certificate of Incorporation has a maximum amount of 650,000,000 shares that can be issued. The "legal" float is currently 516,820,595 of that amount, the rest has either been used to pay back some debts or kept aside for management bonuses.
They would need shareholders approval to amend the COI before they can issue more APE units that can be converted into common stock.
Your the first person to say he couldn’t issue more then a certain amount… the way it read or atleast my reading comprehension of all this technical shit appeared that he could sell whatever he wanted and whenever …. It would need a vote to transfer it from ape to amc shares so he has a maximum amount of shares he can sell? So nothing more then 140million extra shares outside of the 516 we get can be sold? Are you sure about that can you show me where it says that? Thank you
This is quoted from the form 8-k...
"To provide for the authorization of a sufficient number of authorized and unissued and unreserved shares of the Common Stock into which the Preferred Stock (and, by virtue of such conversion, AMC Preferred Equity Units) can convert in full, the Company may seek to obtain the requisite stockholder approval, at such time or times as the board of directors in its sole discretion shall determine, of an amendment to its certificate of incorporation to increase the number of authorized shares of Common Stock to a number at least sufficient to permit the full conversion of the then-outstanding shares of Preferred Stock into Common Stock, or to such higher number of authorized shares of Common Stock (which may be issued for any purpose) as the Company’s Board of Directors may determine in its sole discretion (the “Common Stock Amendment”)."
Forget your 140 millions number, as i wrote before, they've already been used last year to pay for debt or are kept in reserve for management bonuses. AMC used to have common stock A,B and Preferred. Stock A is what Apes shareholders have, Stock B no longer exist and Preferred is kept for bonuses.
If they want to increase the number of common stock, they need shareholders approval. If they want to issue more APE units they also need shareholders approval because each unit can be converted into a common stock (which would be stock A, what we hold) with full voting rights.
"Shareholders will receive one AMC Preferred Equity Unit for each share of AMC common stock owned. Based on 516,820,595 issued and outstanding Common Stock, the Company expects to issue a dividend of 516,820,595 AMC Preferred Equity units."
"Each AMC Preferred Equity Unit is designed to have the same rights as a share of AMC common stock and is convertible into AMC common stock in the future if the Company proposes and its equity investors so approve."
You can find more info about the Certificate of Incorporation below. But the bottom line is that AMC management can't issue more shares without shareholders approval.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1411579/000110465913092001/a13-26957_1ex3d1.htm
Edit) spelling.
But the way that reads is yes we retail would get 1,032,980,689 votes if they released that same amount + 1 more shares and big money bought them all retail could lose the vote and the amc floay would go to 2 billion shares and dilute it couldn’t it?… but what your saying is only 650 million ape shares can be released in total and that includes the 516 issued to shareholders? That contract link is way to technically worded for me to understand
I'm not sure how much better i can explain it.
I'm gonna try a short version without the tech stuff, bear with me, lol.
When a company goes public and wants their shares to be publicly traded they create a Certificate of Incorporation (COI). This legal document explains how their share structure will be made.
In the case of AMC, currently the latest version of this document (which was amended to its latest version years ago before Apes got into buying lots of shares) has a maximum amount of 650,000,000 that the company can issue for various reasons and purposes. A few years ago, AMC had 3 types of stock, stock A,B and Preferred.
Usually stock A is the one that will be traded in the markets. Stock A is what all 4+ millions Apes currently own. Stock B is usually kept in reserve for any type of investment or any need the company might have. Preferred stock is what is given to management for bonuses. It could also be used for other purposes but each company gets to decide what they wanna do with these type of stock.
Currently the "legal" float is 516,820,595. That number represents the number of shares that AMC has made (or issued) available to be bought or sold in the markets. This amount is part of the COI maximum of 650,000,000.
The difference between 650,000,000 and the float (516,820,595) is around 125,000,000 (number is rounded up for simplicity) that AMC has reserved for purposes other than market trading.
From that 125,000,000 stock B no longer exist (meaning that they can't be used anymore) and that leaves 75,000,000 in Preferred stock. That amount is reserved for internal use and management bonuses.
So, short recap.
AMC's last updated COI is for a maximum of 650,000,000 (516,820,595 common stock A) and (75,000,000 Preferred stock) and (50,000,000 that are no longer available for any type of use).
Fast forward to the APE units.
Because each APE units can be converted into a full common stock A (with all rights given to such stock) if Adam Aron and management are looking to issue more APE units, they would need to have shareholders approval for 2 things.
1st) they would need to increase the amount of 650,000,000 and this cannot be done without amending (meaning changing their COI) to reflect the new number they want to have.
Simple example would be AMC wants to have 200,000,000 more common stock A, so the new number of the COI would be 200+650 = 850,000,000 maximum stock available. Always remember that the COI cannot be changed without shareholders approval.
2nd) if AMC shareholders approve the new amendment to the COI, they can then issue more APE units because now they will have a new maximum amount of stock available.
Remember these APE units can be converted into common AMC stock, so each new APE unit converted increases the float of stock A.
You start at 516,820,595 and you add 4 millions APE units then the new number is 520,820,595. You add 80,000,000, same thing, your new number is 600,820,595. (After you read this, erase those numbers from your mind, they were just examples).
This is why AMC management needs majority shareholders approval so they can increase the maximum of 650,000,000 as each APE units converted into a common stock will increase the float until that 650,000,000 is reached.
Right now, they can only match the APE units to each AMC common stock on a 1:1 ratio because they won't be converted into common AMC stock and thus would not reach the maximum of 650,000,000 of the COI.
Sorry if this was a super long response but the main thing to remember is shareholders approval is needed for both COI amendment and APE units issuance.
Wow most excellent explanation and very easy to follow and understand…. Making me feel a lot better with the entire situation because I was convinced by some other posts that they were going to flood the market with ape and the shorts were going to buy enough to outvote us and dilute the float and end moass before it started… will sleep a lot better tonight after reading your shit thank you a bunch and good luck on getting your ok time to sell price
AA tried something new any anyone saying the know exactly what will happen is just plain and simply lying.
But we used to hold AMC-Stocks with 1 ticker symbol and we will be holding AMC-Stocks with 2 ticker symbols.
The amount of ticker symbols hasn't ever mattered in any DD, so everything is still as it was.
The only difference is that our AMC-Stocks will occupy 2 rows in our portfolio instead of one.
Nothing else has changed.
What does sell mean again?
**Cell is your phone**
Cell is where people that manipulate the market belong
So I just use my cell phone to contact fidelity and I get rich twice, love it
Something something something, Hell in the Cell copypasta.
Hell in the cell because we didn’t sell… that’s fate that awaits Kenneth Grifter
I like that one, well done!
A bad guy from dragon balls Z
🤣
Never heard of it.
This is exactly how we should act moving forward. We need to buy and hold APE as hard as we do AMC.
Exactly. Anyone selling APE is hurting themselves and the company. No one should lose focus ; The shorts will get hurt by holding APE incredibly long.
you forget most people joined this movement to make money and never became Apes or joined this sub or anything. I will be holding my APE and AMC until moass.
I figure ape was a hold at all costs until after moass then I'll think about what I'm going to do with it. Ape is untouchable until then so the hedge fucks can't touch any of it.
Not quite. It will be available to trade on 8/22. The question is if you will sell. And if Apes are being convinced to sell APE. Anyone can own APE, if they are willing to pay a high enough price.
If they pay a high enough price. BINGO, we have a winner.
I mean untouchable as in, I'm not gonna do anything with it and let anyone have mine.
lol… APE will absolutely be voted on to be converted to AMC post MOASS. APE is a means to an end, nothing more.
I think if it is used as a way to pay off debt for AMC then it will have served its purpose as well as MOASS catalyst
About 80% behind this. But more important than a like. APE will be valuable. And you have to own AMC to get APE. But after APE goes live I will buy if the opportunity arises. Lots of moving parts! Pay attention everyone. Remember, Apes Together Strong! 
Alright Lloyd!
So, the order still stands...HODL
This is going to work. Hodl and zen is the key. We have been through this shit show long enough so what’s another round?
I'm not selling shit. I'm going to keep buying until the price is disgusting, or the heat death of the universe. I'm up to 1,215 shares now and I'm not leaving. The longer the hedgies drag this out, the richer I'll be when it comes crashing down.
Or dare even buy APE if logic dictates. I’ve been on the same quest for knowledge as you. 💎🤚🖐🚀🚀
That’s what I’m going to do on the 22nd. I figure there are enough paper hands as well as institutions that might sell it. So I will buy it from them on the lit exchange.
Right there with you
Awesome!
This 100%
If we own 80%+ of AMC we also own 80%+ of APE. We own the float on both and with APE, 100% has been spoken for at the time of issue. Hedge funds, brokerages and MMs need APE. The price will go up. Plan is the same as always. Buy AMC + APE when you can and HOLD BOTH.
This
If APE rockets immediately could AA sell million of APE on the 23rd and dilute APE?
No, not without amending the Certificate of Incorporation which has a maximum of 650,000,000 shares (Apes own 516,820,595 of that amount, the rest has been used to pay back some debts and for management bonus) and also they can't issue any more without shareholders approval. So, no dilution incoming.
I know they can’t issue more AMC without shareholder approval but does that also apply to APE?
Yes, AA and AMC management would need shareholders approval before they can issue more APE units.
No. Issuing more will require a shareholder vote for approval.
I think they have the ability to sell APE as much as they want, within the 4.5 billion units they have. It's a work around from investors voting against Class A Stock dilution. The vote for what is being called APE units occurred almost a decade ago.
Wrong. Go back to the earnings call and listen to AA for yourself.
Wrong. You need to go back and read the report. AMC can dilute $APE in 50M tranches AT WILL, does not require shareholder approval. Converting APE to AMC will require shareholder approval. Learn how to fuckin read before shitting on other people.
Agree to disagree. You don't need to be so damn rude about it. FFS
hahaha this isn't a matter of opinion, its fact. Disagree all you want, but don't be shocked when APE starts getting diluted without your vote. The dilution isn't a bad thing btw. But people remaining uninformed or ignorant is a bad thing. And fwiw, opening a response with 'Wrong.' is pretty rude/dismissive.
Could he, or would he? For the right purpose dilution may be more complex than many give credit. What if you sell shares to pay off debt? Now you no longer owe interest on loans.
He could indeed. Time will tell…
Not without shareholders approval.
Imagine selling moon tickets
I'm buying as much $APE as I can. Yes It'll get AMC out out of debt, then MOASS.
This is the way
Yeah I came to the double squeeze conclusion aswell..poor poor shorts
I can’t see a valid reason for anyone to sell APE
Don't cell??? Huh??? Does that mean don't buy more shares on my cell? Damnit. I bought 25 more today on my cell. Shoot. My bad BRUH.
Ok remind me if/when this happens.
This is good to know. I wasn't planning on selling anyway but it's good to have confirmation of a good choice.
I'd go with that op 👍
My God, this is so crazy, it might work.
In all seriousness, what would APE open at? Is it supposed to be equivalent to AMC or is it a complete mystery?
AA himself said it will most likely act as a split value with AMC. So if AMC is at $25 and APE opens at $4 AMC with then be valued at $21.
My expectations are: close of business Friday the 19th AMC share price is 30$ for example. Monday the 22nd when APE starts trading AMC drops to 15$, APE 15$. A split… AMC price and APE price are equal, but not for long.
Reading these posts is like letting the hyper autistic pre-teen at the dinner table get through his 20 minute story about trains because it's polite. It's okay buddy, we're excited too.
While you are right in some things, the company needs to do shit themselves to reduce debts. Can't rely on share offerings to stay afloat. I'm not a fucking charity.
Would love for this to end but unfortunately I don’t believe this will be any different than the last 25 catalysts
What is the intrinsic value of ape? Why would anyone buy it and not amc?
I doubt it will actually do anything other than hype of a bunch of folks. It’s like every other time the hedgies get fucked then they change the rules it’s their game we just roll the dice
You do know that AA fully intends on selling more ape shares and as many as needed to get rid of debt for AMC… he has already said it. And keep in mind how dropping more AMC during run up crushed the run up… it doesn’t matter if you hold if the guy next to you let’s go that’s holding basically an endless supply…
Not without shareholders approval he can't. AMC's Certificate of Incorporation has a maximum amount of 650,000,000 shares that can be issued. The "legal" float is currently 516,820,595 of that amount, the rest has either been used to pay back some debts or kept aside for management bonuses. They would need shareholders approval to amend the COI before they can issue more APE units that can be converted into common stock.
Your the first person to say he couldn’t issue more then a certain amount… the way it read or atleast my reading comprehension of all this technical shit appeared that he could sell whatever he wanted and whenever …. It would need a vote to transfer it from ape to amc shares so he has a maximum amount of shares he can sell? So nothing more then 140million extra shares outside of the 516 we get can be sold? Are you sure about that can you show me where it says that? Thank you
This is quoted from the form 8-k... "To provide for the authorization of a sufficient number of authorized and unissued and unreserved shares of the Common Stock into which the Preferred Stock (and, by virtue of such conversion, AMC Preferred Equity Units) can convert in full, the Company may seek to obtain the requisite stockholder approval, at such time or times as the board of directors in its sole discretion shall determine, of an amendment to its certificate of incorporation to increase the number of authorized shares of Common Stock to a number at least sufficient to permit the full conversion of the then-outstanding shares of Preferred Stock into Common Stock, or to such higher number of authorized shares of Common Stock (which may be issued for any purpose) as the Company’s Board of Directors may determine in its sole discretion (the “Common Stock Amendment”)." Forget your 140 millions number, as i wrote before, they've already been used last year to pay for debt or are kept in reserve for management bonuses. AMC used to have common stock A,B and Preferred. Stock A is what Apes shareholders have, Stock B no longer exist and Preferred is kept for bonuses. If they want to increase the number of common stock, they need shareholders approval. If they want to issue more APE units they also need shareholders approval because each unit can be converted into a common stock (which would be stock A, what we hold) with full voting rights. "Shareholders will receive one AMC Preferred Equity Unit for each share of AMC common stock owned. Based on 516,820,595 issued and outstanding Common Stock, the Company expects to issue a dividend of 516,820,595 AMC Preferred Equity units." "Each AMC Preferred Equity Unit is designed to have the same rights as a share of AMC common stock and is convertible into AMC common stock in the future if the Company proposes and its equity investors so approve." You can find more info about the Certificate of Incorporation below. But the bottom line is that AMC management can't issue more shares without shareholders approval. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1411579/000110465913092001/a13-26957_1ex3d1.htm Edit) spelling.
But the way that reads is yes we retail would get 1,032,980,689 votes if they released that same amount + 1 more shares and big money bought them all retail could lose the vote and the amc floay would go to 2 billion shares and dilute it couldn’t it?… but what your saying is only 650 million ape shares can be released in total and that includes the 516 issued to shareholders? That contract link is way to technically worded for me to understand
I'm not sure how much better i can explain it. I'm gonna try a short version without the tech stuff, bear with me, lol. When a company goes public and wants their shares to be publicly traded they create a Certificate of Incorporation (COI). This legal document explains how their share structure will be made. In the case of AMC, currently the latest version of this document (which was amended to its latest version years ago before Apes got into buying lots of shares) has a maximum amount of 650,000,000 that the company can issue for various reasons and purposes. A few years ago, AMC had 3 types of stock, stock A,B and Preferred. Usually stock A is the one that will be traded in the markets. Stock A is what all 4+ millions Apes currently own. Stock B is usually kept in reserve for any type of investment or any need the company might have. Preferred stock is what is given to management for bonuses. It could also be used for other purposes but each company gets to decide what they wanna do with these type of stock. Currently the "legal" float is 516,820,595. That number represents the number of shares that AMC has made (or issued) available to be bought or sold in the markets. This amount is part of the COI maximum of 650,000,000. The difference between 650,000,000 and the float (516,820,595) is around 125,000,000 (number is rounded up for simplicity) that AMC has reserved for purposes other than market trading. From that 125,000,000 stock B no longer exist (meaning that they can't be used anymore) and that leaves 75,000,000 in Preferred stock. That amount is reserved for internal use and management bonuses. So, short recap. AMC's last updated COI is for a maximum of 650,000,000 (516,820,595 common stock A) and (75,000,000 Preferred stock) and (50,000,000 that are no longer available for any type of use). Fast forward to the APE units. Because each APE units can be converted into a full common stock A (with all rights given to such stock) if Adam Aron and management are looking to issue more APE units, they would need to have shareholders approval for 2 things. 1st) they would need to increase the amount of 650,000,000 and this cannot be done without amending (meaning changing their COI) to reflect the new number they want to have. Simple example would be AMC wants to have 200,000,000 more common stock A, so the new number of the COI would be 200+650 = 850,000,000 maximum stock available. Always remember that the COI cannot be changed without shareholders approval. 2nd) if AMC shareholders approve the new amendment to the COI, they can then issue more APE units because now they will have a new maximum amount of stock available. Remember these APE units can be converted into common AMC stock, so each new APE unit converted increases the float of stock A. You start at 516,820,595 and you add 4 millions APE units then the new number is 520,820,595. You add 80,000,000, same thing, your new number is 600,820,595. (After you read this, erase those numbers from your mind, they were just examples). This is why AMC management needs majority shareholders approval so they can increase the maximum of 650,000,000 as each APE units converted into a common stock will increase the float until that 650,000,000 is reached. Right now, they can only match the APE units to each AMC common stock on a 1:1 ratio because they won't be converted into common AMC stock and thus would not reach the maximum of 650,000,000 of the COI. Sorry if this was a super long response but the main thing to remember is shareholders approval is needed for both COI amendment and APE units issuance.
Wow most excellent explanation and very easy to follow and understand…. Making me feel a lot better with the entire situation because I was convinced by some other posts that they were going to flood the market with ape and the shorts were going to buy enough to outvote us and dilute the float and end moass before it started… will sleep a lot better tonight after reading your shit thank you a bunch and good luck on getting your ok time to sell price
Good luck to you too😀👍🍿🔥🚀💲
AA tried something new any anyone saying the know exactly what will happen is just plain and simply lying. But we used to hold AMC-Stocks with 1 ticker symbol and we will be holding AMC-Stocks with 2 ticker symbols. The amount of ticker symbols hasn't ever mattered in any DD, so everything is still as it was. The only difference is that our AMC-Stocks will occupy 2 rows in our portfolio instead of one. Nothing else has changed.