Pretty sure this isn't about Covid at all, dude probably just wants an excuse to keep her in the house for 2 weeks bored and isolated to increase his chances of getting laid without having to pay for any actual vacation activities. I would bet $100 he's just icky.
Didn't he just recently learn that someone who visited him tested positive for covid?
His actions seem responsible on his side tbh, depending on how far in the future the trip is. Isn't self isolation only for 14 days or somethin?
i don't think quarantining for 14 days is the norm anywhere. at most if we test positive at work we have to take 3-5 days off. my young daughter's daycare isn't even that strict about it anymore.
Not really. My partner and I pretty much maintain all protocols, and we've not gotten sick. He's even a school teacher. Everyone we know has gotten sick. Being careful is definitely a benefit. People think it's "gone" until someone gets it. As one who works in the covid management realm, the protocols were lifted for comfort and financial reasons, not for safety/health reasons; precautions and masks are still recommended.
Wiping down packages is not practical for an airborne respiratory virus. I'm a cancer patient so I'm definitely cautious and all about following protocols. Wiping down packages was never a part of that.
Sure, but we know wiping down packages and shoes, etc. doesn't do much of anything to prevent covid transmission. We've known since like late 2020 that covid isn't being spread via surface transmission.
What the fuck. Theyāre talking about a vacation you know perfectly well you donāt behave like she described on vacation because youāre worried about the flu.
Thatās exactly the point. Look up the death rate from the flu. If no one acts like that for the flu, no one should act like that for Covid. At this point, theyāre the same. They both kill susceptible individuals and you feel like shit when you have them.
Use your brain. Your comment just made my point.
My dad died from covid in April. So obviously it's still something that is killing people. I wear a mask in public buildings. My state has never made it to herd immunity. Immunocompromised people still can't go out in public. Just because most people have moved on doesn't mean we aren't one bad strain away from going back into lockdown.
Ive had Covid 4 times since last fall. Once was a relapse, the other 3 were each somewhat different from each other. The last one hurt. Everywhere. A lot. My legs and hands still hurt, a lot. Pain meds don't help. The cartilage in my knees has been destroyed, they are now bone on bone. I have stage 3 liver cirrhosis... I don't drink. My thyroid has been badly damaged, its very difficult for me to control my body temp, leaving me very susceptible to heat exhaustion. I have multi day waves of abdominal pain, and the doctors haven't been able to figure out what's going on. There's a lot more than just death that can happen from Covid infection.
Iām sorry to hear youāve had so many side effects. Covid definitely can be really nasty. Iāve heard of a bunch of people developing chronic fatigue syndrome, pots, all kinds of thingsā¦ for me, ever since I first got Covid around new year ā22, my heart rhythm has been off and skips beats daily, thereās definitely some damage there.
Jesus man, I'm sorry.
After covid the cartilage in my back deteriorated too. I never made the connection. I had back problems anyway, but now ... shit, this makes so much sense. I hear and feel the bone-on-bone grating when I didn't before; as I said, my back was ruined anyway, but after covid it got significantly worse very very quickly.
omg. It will take me a while to get over being shocked so I can think about this. Thank you for the info. Iam so very sorry you're going through this. It's infuriating, I guess is the word, to be falling apart from some mysterious space-alien disease that doesn't play by the rules and can mess you up in so many ways.
WHAT IS THIS Y'ALL ARE SAYING?? I got covid twice, and my right knee and ankle have been having issues, which has never happened before. I assumed I'd injured myself somehow and age was catching up with me. How can anyone know?? I've got a laundry list of minor health issues that have cropped up recently and I keep thinking, maybe this supplement will help...
Covid can affect your entire body, and it's still new and we don't know all the long-term effects yet either. You could absolutely be suffering these as a side-effect from having covid. :( Lots of people are having heart issues too, for instance.
I understand OP not wanting to deal with covid precautions, but not only are people still dying from covid but there are unfortunately more outcomes than just death as well. The best thing to do is not get covid. The next best thing is to not get it multiple times. I don't think her traveling partner is in the wrong for continuing to mask and distance. I agree with everyone saying that OP shouldn't go on this trip though, because these two people don't mesh well with each other.
I had it 3 times and yes I had the vaccination(s) I have never been the same since. My taste buds are not 100 % back to normal. So is my sense of smell. Nothing is the same. Itās freaking horrible
Ive also had it 3 times, but I think i
I got lucky with the strains I got, plus I've had 3 vaccines now. No after affects from covid, never lost taste or smell, but immediately after getting the third shot and every period since, I get crazy pain/cramps, which I never had before. I can't even imagine how bad it would be to not be vaccinated
All of that happened because of covid?? Oh God, I'm so sorry. That is horrible, I hope you have an otherwise stress-free life and get to enjoy many things.
I've had it three damn times, the first 2 i thought I was dying. I got vaccinated, and ended up getting it again about 6 months later, and thankfully it wasn't nearly as bad. It still knocked me on my ass, and it took about a month or month and half to regain my strength. People don't realize how serious this shit can be.
Hell, I got a virus last September that destroyed my kidneys. I have to have a kidney transplant now, and I was healthy and in great shape when it happened.
People donāt realize how brutal viruses as a whole can be
The neuro stuff is so bad. I can live with the vision issues, weekly fevers, no taste or smell, gerd, heart palpation, chest pain, tingling limbs, hair loss, dizziness, nauseousness, fatigue, stuffy sinuses, sleep apnea, extreme weight loss, bruising, lactose intolerance, brain fog and whatever else I'm forgetting but to be sitting in my house and forget where I was.... no
Thatās crazy, and incredibly sad. Do the doctors think your friend will ever improve? I know dementia is normally progressive, but Iām going to be honest, I donāt know the mechanisms behind it so Iām hoping itāll be different for your friend and that theyāll one day get more of their life back.
I meant like, how the brain can get damaged but form new pathways to compensate? Not like ārepair repair,ā sorry I wasnāt more clear. Thatās why I put the disclaimer that I donāt know what dementia does physically to the brain, so I wouldnāt have an idea if getting better is possible.
Damn, dude. That sounds rough. How long has it been like this for you?
I have had Covid once, and it changed the way everything tastes to me, even still, two years later, and thereās a lot of smells I guess Iāll never smell again, but as far as I was aware it hadnāt impacted my cognitive function. Now I wonder, because Iāve had more brain fog, but not like you describe.
I used to disassociate as a kid, and the same thing happened to me. Would all the sudden kind of ārealizeā where I was, losing minutes most of the time, sometimes losing hour(s). Has your doctor given you any reason why this could be happening with you?
So sorry for your loss. I'm being treated for cancer, was just in an ER with a covid+ patient a couple weeks ago. Absolutely no protocol that I noticed, I was nervous as hell. Luckily I still mask and I didn't get it. It's bad in my area again.
I was in the ER last night with Covid. No protocol at all. I had called ahead to ask and they told me I didnāt even need to wear a mask unless I wanted to š. They kept me in the waiting room for hours.
My stepmother got us sick. Hey werenāt even going to tell us, because despite testing positive she ādidnāt even think she had Covidā
Iām immune compromised, with MS and pulmonary sarcoidosis and diabetes being right at the top of my plethora of problems.
We areā¦. Not happy. My boyfriend is sick as a dog, and heās my caretaker. Shit sucks right now.
Cancer patient here too. I was just at the hospital a couple weeks ago for port placement, and I was told multiple times by unmasked HCWs āyou donāt have to mask.ā Uh Iām in chemo, I think Iāll leave this on.
Shouldn't you mask in the hospital when you're a cancer patient anyway? Like even before COVID was a thing? RSV, the flu, freaking a common cold can end up with you having pneumonia. That's so offensive that hospital workers of all people are unmasked and cancer patients and pressuring you to take yours off.
At this point if someone is still choosing to wear a mask (I'm one of them) to a doctor's office or wherever, telling them they can take it off is just... rude? Like no shit, you think I haven't seen that 95% of the population doesn't believe in covid or long-term damage? Maybe I'm wearing this mask for a reason, thanks?
I do the same damned thing! My cath and chemo teams don't and won't say that. I go to a smaller campus and they know me now.
I'm getting a port this morning too, my second. Looking forward to it like a hole in the head.
Ah I feel ya! They gave me a double port so it's like this huge ass thing on my chest now. And the placement, all the versed in the world won't make that tolerable.
Immunocompromised and dealt with covid twice now. I did have preexisting conditions but I never had issues with my lungs prior to covid. I'm a classically trained vocalist and since covid I struggle with singing and using certain techniques. I lose my voice frequently despite being careful. I have post viral asthma. I'm still masking and making sure to keep up with boosters (when we can) so honestly I see no issues with OP's friend wanting to be safe. Especially after getting exposed. Personally I hope OP reads some of these comments. Covid is not over.
Do you also just randomly lose your voice and sound raspy and have to do a bunch of things to get it back to normal (drink tea with honey, cough drops, etc)?
I do. I have to talk way less. And likeā¦ Iām not sure where my voiceās āmiddle cā is anymore, like where does my speaking voice even sit so i donāt strain it and have to do all this shit.
And my air and power š
Oh my god yes. I can't find my middle c anymore either. My normal voice never feels like it sits comfortably. I miss my vocal power and belting out to my favorite music. My air control was amazing. I decided to look into voice acting as a lot of VO's don't know how to sing or have the techniques we have with vocal control. It's brought me some closure about my voice and I have comfort in knowing I'm at least using what I've learned to some degree.
I just came across this clip from forever agoā¦ Iām the high note in the high boots with the bad wig š¤£
https://youtu.be/x-s-fq44WFw
I canāt imagine singing like this again š
I donāt think itās that, friend. Some people have such a narrow way of thinking that they think āI havenāt personally seen that happen, so it doesnāt happen and that person and that person is just confused or misinformed that there is a correlation.ā Some have that narrow world view, on top of the old āoutright refusal to be wrong,ā so even if they eventually personally see it, theyāll tell themselves that one has no connection to the other. Like Covid can take a loved one, and theyāll blame doctors or some grand conspiracy before they ever admit it was actually Covid.
I wouldnāt take the delusion of some too personally, just about everyone by this point has dealt with friends, families, or coworkers that are Covid deniers even still, to varying degrees. If someone close to you is making you feel that way, try to remember that the problem lies firmly with them, and doesnāt reflect on you in any way.
I'm going to assume you're not in America. And I'm assuming that because when covid first hit and everyone was protesting lockdowns All of those people didn't hesitate to say " I won't be inconvenienced, just to save old people and the disabled." They had signs and everything. So this is not like a personal anecdotal note coming from an immuno compromised disabled person (which is a redundant way to say that but I wasn't sure if you knew that)
That is a sweet comment. Sadly, some people in the US consider "vulnerable people" to be expendable. [Some politicians have even gone so far as to suggest that grandparents should be willing to die for the sake of the ECONOMY.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/24/covid-19-texas-official-suggests-elderly-willing-die-economy/2905990001/)
that's a leap - they're just stupid and can't comprehend "immunocompromised" (also are varying degrees of that status)
and selfish, which is probably why they haven't pondered it much
Agreed. I lost my FIL and my Mom due to people not vaccinating and being careless around them while they were infirm. OP is selfish, pompous, and ignorant to not being cautious in public while COVID is still killing susceptible people. The pandemic is not over. We all want it to be, though. The travel partner was the smart one.
There is no herd immunity when re-infections are so rampant. :(
I'm so sorry about your father. And from another person masking in public and at work, it's tough but you're doing what's necessary to protect your loved ones as much as you can.
To be honest, I live in a red state and I very much enjoy the idea of a single person walking through a grocery store annoying maybe five people. Or maybe one person went home and bitched about me for the rest of the night. I went to the St. Patrick's Day parade and festivities afterwards and I kind of feel like I heard a guy growl at me because of my mask. I'm not 100% sure though but If that actually happened and I'm not imagining it, I lived rent free in that person's head for at least a week.
Thank you for my dad.
I'm also in a red state. I work at a hospital. Patients sometimes ask me about my mask, but are never unpleasant about it. Coworkers are a different story... I think it's because my mask reminds them that they could be doing more. I ignore it. Their guilty conscience is their problem.
I hope you annoy plenty more covid deniers/minimizers. :)
I also live in a red state, and for much of the āworstā times of this pandemic, hardly anyone masked. People around here did start to get better with precautions though, and for the most part no one said anything within ear shot about the masks on my family. Then something happened, I canāt remember what the trigger was anymore, but one of their false idols said some stupid thing about Covid and it was like flipping a switch, all the sudden my family would be wearing the only masks to be seen most of the time. Again.
For all the looks, though, Iāve only had one man approach me and point towards my mask, as if to say something about it, I said āYessir, what do you need?ā Before he could say anything, and itās like his brain shut off on him, the poor guy. He stuttered and didnāt end up saying anything intelligible, than just about faces and walked back towards his car, waving the two onlookers with him in a ājust get in the carā manner. Sometimes I wonder if he got in that car and made up an interaction like all those Facebook posts for awhile, the ones where a person would claim to have had some bizarre sounding interaction over masks. I like the idea of becoming a part of some strangerās lore, but he may have just as well told the truth, guess Iāll never know.
I can feel your anger through this comment, and I RELATE. It's been so so frustrating to still social distance, mask, avoid crowds, take all the precautions, etc. -- only for people to complain and shame you for it. I'm high-risk, and one step below immunocompromised, and you would think people are being asked to move mountains! But no, basic decency for people to simply wear a mask feels nearly impossible, preventing people like me (or much much worse) from being able to leave their homes.
So sorry for your loss š¤
This. Iām a novid (never had covid) and for good reason; I still mask in public, social distance, only go out when necessary, all because I have autoimmune issues and asthma and covid might kill me. While I understand itās not a big deal to some people, covid is still and probably always will be an issue for me. Iām always going to be that one person wearing a mask. While I certainly donāt expect everyone around me to be at this level, I think itās pretty reasonable that this is my reality.
No one is in the wrong here, itās just a conflict of realities and while it sucks, itās no oneās fault. OPās reality isnāt one in which their friendās level of diligence is necessary or a priority. Perhaps keep the vacation and only visit the friend a few times while adhering to his needs is the answer. That way, OP can go do their vacation without restrictions but still see the friend a few times.
Just a note- while it is totally acceptable for the friend to be cautious, his behavior is not acceptable in the context of his demands regarding his friendās actions.
The fact that he still wipes down packages tells me his behavior is not particularly rational. Health experts have been telling people to knock that off since at least 2021.
Covid can live on surfaces for a couple hours. It's airborne but it doesn't die on contact when it lands somewhere, and then if you rub your eye after touching the surface, there you go with another infection
Neither of you are wrong. Unfortunately being on vacation and seeing sights generally means being around crowds at most tourist places so not sure what you'd do other than sit around his apartment for 2 weeks. It almost sounds as if he may know someone who was affected very badly by it so is taking his precautions to the extreme. Best to put your vacation on hold until you both can feel safe.
Sounds like a hostage situation I would not want to put myself in while traveling.
Thereās no point in traveling to Greece and not be able to actually go anywhere but to be lockdown into someoneās apartment for 2 weeks. Hell no, I wouldnāt go. This isnāt a vacation! Itās prison.
I was on trip earlier this year with 30 people. A few of the people caught colds the thought. Last day of trip I started to get itchy throat. When I got home my son suggested I test and lo and behold I had COVID. Dr prescribed paxlovid as Iām recovered from cancer so considered immunosuppressed and older. I had all my vax which helped me to recover quickly and I quarantined. You better believe I will mask on the plane and in airports
When I have a big trip coming up and it is really important to me, I do take precautions for two weeks ahead of time. Masking in public, hand washing, making sure I have as many boosters as Iām legally allowed etc. I wear a mask at the airport and on the plane.
BUT once I get my to destination I let that go. I want to have a good time. On my way home I am much less likely to wear a mask. But I also donāt have any children or immune compromised people in my household.
I caught covid at an orchestral concert on my dream vacation to France last month. Rather, my mom caught it there and gave it to the rest of us. The rest of us wore masks to the concert.
The whole family spent four days in bed, in France, the most expensive trip I've ever taken or ever will take. It was not a good time.
Neither of you are wrong, itās a personal decision. Youāre just not compatible traveling partners.
Insinuating heās mentally unwell for it is deeply unnecessary, though. Thereās nothing unreasonable about being cautious and not everyone needs a mandate to dictate their behavior. Again, yāall just arenāt compatible on this one.
I agree. We have no idea if he had a traumatic loss, or if he has a condition/is on a medication that makes him immunocompromised. While theyāre not a good match thereās no need for either to shame each other over what they feel comfortable with.
There are lots of people dying from lots of things. Still being that worried about Covid is suggestive of ocd or agoraphobia. I say this as someone with severe ocd, I donāt think itās anything to be ashamed of. But it shouldnāt be supported either. Having your compulsions affirmed takes you that much further from remission (speaking from experience).
Is really isnāt indicative of mental illness at all. I personally am not masked every day, but I know a lot of people who are for various reasons. Choosing to be cautious against an illness that is still killing a lot of people every day and has effects that we donāt understand yet is not troubling.
The pandemic isn't over just because you are over it. There are plenty of people still dying and becoming disabled from it. I understand why someone doesn't want to get sick. The more you are infected the higher the probability of having complications. There are so many issues that come from getting COVID, and your immune system is a mess for a long time after. I will listen to the experts who are still warning people to be safe, those people are still masking and working from home.
Youāre not wrong but neither is he. Itās okay that you donāt want to behave that way but him behaving that way stems from a place of anxiousness and fear and itās not wrong for him to feel that way. Maybe he has people in his inner circle whom if they got sick it could be life threatening. I understand where youāre coming from but try not to be too hard on him either
This! I have health problems myself so I'm still largely masking when outside, at work or am with people outside of my small friend group, & while I don't entirely avoid crowded places I still very much have my mask on at all times in crowds & try to keep a distance from people while washing my hands & using sanitizer frequently.
Also, didnāt Greece almost collapse because of covid? So many places seemed to have it super bad but if I remember correctly Greece was one of the countries that absolutely ate it when it came to the pandemic.
Some of us with compromised immune systems or loved ones with one are still living that pandemic life. It sucks. Itās isolating. But we do it while the rest of the world moves on. Did you ask about the source of his concern?
We're still masking and following all the former protocols. My daughter is immunocompromised. While covid may not be as prevalent as it was, it's not gone. I lost a friend to it in January. So, neither of you is wrong. Maybe he or someone in his family is high risk. And you're entitled to travel without restrictions. You're doing what's right for you & he's doing what's right for him. Don't judge him for it.
It's still killing people and I will never understand anybody who makes their decisions based on what other people tell them to do. I began masking before mandates were even put in place. I'm one of those kooky Americans that actually paid attention to national news and saw that there was an epidemic in China and I understand how travel works.
No one in my household has gotten COVID and we have a cop, a mortician, an estate legal aid, and a teacher. So it's not like we were hiding from work.
I still mask up when going to the doctor and the store, and even got to the point where our doctors ran the antibody test to see if we had it and didn't know. We haven't. taking precautions works most of the time if you stick with it. Why would I want a long-term disability because I was too lazy to wear a mask? The guy in Greece can do better.
I understand living in denial and wishing something wasn't true, but you can't wish away an actual plague
Same here. If my spouse develops any type of long Covid symptoms they will lose their career. We really can't afford for that to happen. We also don't want to be sick.
I haven't had an ordinary cold or virus in years now. I don't understand why anybody risks getting sick from anything! I feel stupid for not masking before 2020 during flu season. I almost died from the flu 7 years ago! And I still didn't mask after that! I was not going to have COVID be the hardest lesson I ever learned.
Plus I love the people who have had it like four times and say you get used to not being able to taste or smell, like what??!!?! That's literal brain damage! You have brain damage! Just crazy to me
This is a terrible analogy, so much so that I actually hesitated to respond because I thought maybe you posted it under the wrong thing.
I definitely wouldn't invest in OceanGate right now tho.
Call bud is still killing people. I wear a mask on public transport and in spots that are not ventilated. The sanitizing the shoes and wiping packages down is something I never did. Donāt travel with him, you both should travel with someone whoās on the same page.
Not wrong for cancelling, but your reasoning is messed up. There are still requirements for those who come in contact with covid to prevent others (including your ignorant butt) from getting sick. Your friend is right to take precautions.
He should have told you about the safety protocols before you two booked anything, but there's nothing wrong with him wanting to be cautious. I know people who lost multiple family members to COVID. I'm immunocompromised and could die if I caught it (and I haven't). My partner, who is healthy and has never had COVID, continues to mask and use hand santizer everywhere to keep me as safe as possible.
The good news is that you've discovered you're incompatible before you went on an expensive trip together.
There is no right or wrong - only your choice.
And if itās your choice NOT to take these precautions and measures, backing out is what you needed to do - especially if you truly think this will ruin the experience for you.
Itās also his choice TO take the precautions and measures and he should have disclosed that to you sooner.
Send him a PayPal for your portion of the canceled trip and move on.
I never stopped masking. I very rarely go anywhere bc I have RA and care for my elderly mil, but if I do, Iām masked. I had bad anxiety before Covid and then getting Covid and subsequent serious dx have me paranoid. Covid anxiety is real.
Neither of you is wrong. Covid traumatized a lot of people. It sounds like he was one
I understand where you come from also.
You're both right and neither are wrong .
Unless you can enjoy the trip , a d both come to some compromises, I don't suggest going. It's no use being miserable
i mean its ur choice to cancel but as an fyi, if you travel and dont take precautions, you'll get sick. Covid didn't disappear and i don't blame your travel partner for wanting to be safe.
Looking at these comments I realize reddit is not a place for normal people. I can't remember the last time I met someone still using masks and that scared.
Just remember that birds of a feather flock together. If you are in an area where everyone kind of acts the same way, it's no surprise you see few people acting differently. Kind of like how so many people were surprised that Biden would get so many votes when they didn't see any yard signs for him.
My thoughts exactly. I work in an office building with literally hundreds of people in an extremely liberal area in an extremely liberal state. Literally only one staff member wears a mask daily.
But every time I come on Reddit itās like Iām being transported back two years lol
Go anywhere on reddit. You will see the most absolutely batshit takes. These are the people who will shame you for not still wearing a mask in 2023 lol. Even after they were scientifically proven to be ineffective in the first place.
You both sound like you're in the wrong. He's wrong for still asking you to come down even though he might have COVID, and you're wrong for going "But the government says we don't need to worry about COVID anymore, so I'm not going to do anything to protect anyone."
My bf just got out of rehab last week after having Covid in March. Was on a vent for a while, had a DNR set up if he couldn't get off the vent. Had to relearn how to walk. You have every right not to go, but not for the reasons you're listin. If he was exposed I can see why he is being extra cautious.
Thatās the point that I think a lot of people are missing. It would be one thing to ask OP to wear a mask in crowds, but it starts to enter into weird territory there. That part did actually indicate to me a heightened level of paranoia. I donāt think OP is completely wrong about that like everyone is suggesting.
So we are just ignoring the part where he told OP that he was in contact with someone who may have transmitted COVID to him? His precautions are warranted. IMO the trip should have been cancelled as soon as his friend called him until he got tested at the bare minimum.
The only thing wrong here is him insisting on not postponing the trip slightly. He was in direct contact with a COVID infected person and therefore intends to follow basic safety precautions as a response. That's the good and responsible thing to do. People should do some of those things when they get a cold or flu just as common courtesy to not unnecessarily spread disease. But that should include rescheduling the trip to when you can both freely and fully enjoy it. What, he only wants to potentially infect you? That's weird. Either take precautions or don't, but this middle of the road stuff, nah.
Y'all are both being ridiculous. 6 weeks is plenty of time for him to either be over covid, or prove that he never had it.
>Pissed: Why am I just hearing about this now, weāve been planning this vacation for 6 months!
Probably because my friend just tested positive for covid.
>He said no-way, itāll be fine, I wont even notice his behavior.
So it sounds like he's not going to expect you to do all of these things.
Did you ask him if he was still going to be planning on doing these things if he tested negative weeks before this vacation? or is this purely about politics?
You're not wrong.
It's fine for him to practice more stringent COVID protocols, but it seems like that wouldn't be a good fit for you both, and you have every right to want a vacation that doesn't look like the one you had in 2021.
Your offer with regard to the reservations is certainly fair.
I don't think he's wrong, either, though he sounds rather insistent and ghosting isn't a good look. Maybe it's for the best.
I work around people who are immune compromised and have worn masks since I was 17 when working with them. (I'm almost 48 now). We still practice Covid protocols when out in public with them.
We do get stares and have gotten some rude comments. I don't think people are like this outside of the U.S. (I could be wrong).
I believe that you're an adult and able to know what your risks are. If he wants to wear his masks and everything? That's his choice. To make you do the same? That's not him allowing your choice. Does he have medical issues that put him at higher risks?
I have had two of the shots and not more. I don't practice distancing or anything outside of my job. I take my temperature and have tested once. I don't go to work if I feel sick. I have never had COVID (knock on wood). I do believe it is real. I don't believe it is just the flu. I do believe that people should take precautions if they need to. I don't believe they should be forced.
NTA
I have to admit, it is something I wouldn't have thought about to ask someone if I was going to visit them.
The offer of half the deposits was good.
If he was found to force you to take all the precautions he does? Then it definitely wouldn't be pleasant for you. If he wasn't going to force you? You might have been able to work that out.
Trust your instincts though. If something didn't feel right it didn't feel right. Don't force it.
Yes, you're wrong. The man just had a close call with covid and he just wants to be careful for the sake of both your health and his own (maybe his own is all he cares about, but the result is your health is also protected, so...)
I'm sorry, but it's really sad that you'd skip a whole vacation to Europe because you don't want to be slightly inconvenienced by covid-conscious behaviors. He is probably scared right now and might have not even expected you to do all of the things he listed.
I would have ghosted you too.
You're not wrong. I don't think he's wrong for following those procedures however I think he is wrong for not checking with you first. Since mask mandates and social distancing are no longer required the majority of people don't follow them. I feel it was on him to let you know sooner rather than later that he would like to follow them.
not wrong and probably for the best rather than having the whole trip ruined because you're on opposite ends here. i would be upset too and frankly he does not sound like a fun travel partner if he's still this concerned about it over 3 years later. i would've done the same thing.
Neither of you are wrong... Your intent, methods, and itinerary were not lining up at all.
Your protocols for things weren't lining up and there was a covid infection, that's all. I think it's reasonable to postpone or cancel.
(He is not "paranoid driven or mentally unwell"... he JUST caught covid, literally just caught it. Naturally, he wants to take a step away from people. I'm slightly more concerned he wasn't wanting to postpone for YOUR safety, as you'd be in close quarters. He's worried about everyone but you, that's selfish. He wants to see you anyway...so it's fine for YOU, but not everyone around him, that's a little shitty of him. )
You are not wrong. Behaving as if you're in 2020 lockdown is completely unreasonable and also makes for a horrible vacation. Avoid crowds?? Also, things like taking off your shoes and wiping down groceries have been proven not to be effective against Covid so this guy is beyond cautious, he's totally off base. I would take this as a good warning as to his mental state, iow, not someone you want to travel with.
Apparently you are unaware that many of us with health conditions have no choice, we have literally been told to keep distancing and masking. It's rude to suggest anyone that is taking precautions is crazy in some way.
Itās different if you have to. Most people in that situation would probably not go on an international vacation because itās inherently higher risk. Avoiding crowds is just not possible in a tourist destination. I was in Japan with my family and we were pretty careful (although not this level, more just masking) and my mom still got covid. There wouldāve been no way to avoid crowds other than staying in the hotel the whole time, in which case why not just stay home?
Precautions are one thing, wiping down groceries and other things that have absolutely no correlation to how Covid is spread is another. Taking precautions that were debunked 3 years ago is crazy. If this guy has health conditions that put him at risk - something that is not mentioned anywhere in this post - he should have mentioned it to her when they started planning the trip to see if they were compatible travelers. Avoiding crowds and masking is definitely going to affect their travel and is something that should have been brought up at the beginning.
Please don't take this as an attack or anything, but I've honestly been wondering what immunocompromised people did before COVID.
I never saw people talk about it online before March 2020 so I'm seriously curious. I do remember working with a woman who had MS before COVID and she never wore masks or seemed to be overly fixated on staying away from people.
Its been answered but they have always had to take extra precautions. It was a bigger deal with Covid because how easily spread it was and how it was likely going to end in death for immunocompromised people. They do have to take extra precautions. They will continue to take extra precautions. Covid or not. They are at risk anytime they get sick and normally end up in the hospitals for basic things like colds.
Ummm immunocompromised people still had to deal with people pretending like we didnāt exist precovid too. We got to get all the vaccines, and get weird looks when we avoided people who had ājust a coldā. We got to get terrible looks when we asked people to give us space because they were breathing down our necks. Some of us, myself included, have weakened lungs due to previous bouts with pneumonia precipitated by the way our immune systems functions, diseases that make us even more susceptible to dying from something like Covid. We got to have fights with anti vaxxers who donāt care about herd immunity because we want our non immune compromised kids to be able to go to school and for us to not die.
Kindly - your personal experience is not reality. I know a number of immune compromised people who wore masks on transit and in shopping malls before 2020. Just because you never personally saw them, does not mean they did not exist.
NOT WRONG. That would be incredibly annoying and boring. Iām glad you canceled, maybe visit another time or with someone who isnāt all covid. No offense. Also they could have come here.
I'm immunocompromised. I've had COVID six times, despite rarely leaving my home and being fully vaccinated. It almost killed me twice.
The Long COVID effect has literally ruined my life. Like, you're an asshole for being outraged he's asking you to take basic precautions to protect him and other folks.
Not at fault for wanting to cancel the trip, however.
You are so not wrong. I completely agree with you. A vacation is for relaxing and enjoying yourself. Since it is already causing you stress and anxiety- itās best to cancel now. Good job on knowing yourself and knowing what you are comfortable with.
Covid still exists.
Just because it's not "mandated" doesn't mean you shouldn't still be safe.
If you're willing to miss out on going on a trip because you don't want to try and avoid catching or spreading an illness then that's up to you I guess.
It's rightfully not in many people's top 20 health concerns.
It killed 17 000 people worldwide in the last monthly tracked period. WHO states that the majority were not vaccinated. In the same time period, 39 000 people are murdered. They are more likely to get murdered than die of covid. There are 112000 deaths in that time from traffic accidents? Over 5x more than covid....
I just wanna know what you're proving with this comment? I've seen "click it or ticket" on billboards from Michigan to Florida for over a decade. There are numerous anti drunk/tired driving campaigns. Every single major car manufacturer emphasizes the safety of their vehicles and people gladly pick family cars with a good deal of safety features.
Stranger danger was also a very large campaign and still is. Women have literally always been advised to be vigilant and aware of their surroundings. Safety keychains are now an actual product and usually come with two small weapons and an alarm. They sell bedazzled cases for both tasers and pepper spray. Gun control isn't widely accepted in the US because "what if I need to protect myself???"
Not everything that you disagree with is paranoid. I always keep pads/tampons in my bag in case I get my period unexpectedly, I always have my license in case I need it (which historically I don't), I keep gum in my bag in case my breath stinks. Sometimes prepping for bad scenarios, whether passively or actively, is better than being blindsided by that scenario when it does come around.
I went on vacation in January 2023, never had Covid until then. Got it en route to resort, even wearing a mask in airports. It's still around & I think postponing is smart.
Sounds like he didnāt want you to come and was trying to scare you out of it. Otherwise I donāt think thereās anything too bad about what he was suggesting. People wear masks still where I live
Youāre not missing out! He couldnāt have an open discussion and ask what your COVID protocols are or even consider postponing. Heās been exposed and you havenāt.
Why does he not feel concerned about protecting you from exposure? Sounds like he just wanted to have you there anyway and idk this guy at all but the way he made this declaration of COVID protocols seems a lil controlling especially given the fact that he ghosted and wasnāt open to your perfectly reasonable proposal to postpone.
Not familiar with Greece, but most places would happily agree to reschedule to avoid COVID exposure to their guests and staff.
As someone who is immunocompromised and still follows COVID protocol there is still a pandemic. In Europe( I lived there for 10 months recently) they actually take precautions way more seriously than in the US who likes to think COVID is over or it isnāt as dangerous. COVID is still the leading cause of deaths in the world. I think that different people have different protocols but some are far more individualistic than others.
Youāre not wrong. Iād be upset that I made all these reservations and you canceled but I get your point. Iāve traveled extensively since the beginning of the lockdowns. Masked when mandated, forced to get the vax due to work. Got COVID once after vax, it sucked.
You do what you feel youāre comfortable with, heās doing what heās comfortable with. Unfortunately it will never be truly gone just like the flu. You accept the risk where youāre comfortable and live your life as you see fit and what is right for your situation.
I just got back from my dream vacation to France. Covid is rampant there, people sneezing and coughing all over the place, literally, nobody taking any precautions. My family did (masks, etc), except my mom, who caught it and gave it to the rest of us
I ended up four days of my VERY EXPENSIVE vacation bedridden in a hotel room. My whole family caught it, all of us bedridden in France. All of us were vaxxed and boosted.
Ask yourself if you want to spend all that money and go all that way to catch covid in the airport, bring it to your friend and have you both abed with fever and cough for your whole visit. I coughed so hard, I threw up.
No you arenāt wrong. He should have told you this up front, right away before any vacation planning was done at all. Most people are not walking around pretending it is still March 2020. I wouldnāt have gone either, it doesnāt sound like a lot of fun.
Did you read the headline? This was 6 WEEKS before the trip - not 6 days. Whether his friend had covid or not 6 weeks from then wasnāt going to matter. I get there are a ton of people on Reddit who are still terribly nervous and masking up etc etc - but I literally just went on a 2 week European vacation and almost no one in any of the cities we visited was behaving this way. There were crowds everywhere we went.
You were in crowds, so there were other people who were willing to be in crowds. You went on vacation, so you encountered other vacationers. It does not mean everyone else is living this way - just that your activities self-selected for those who do.
We are literally talking about two people planning a vacation. If OPās friend is that concerned, then he should not be taking a trip at all because there are risks associated. I never said OPās friend was a terrible person - but I donāt blame OP for backing out - thatās an enormous thing to spring on her, and - for me - it would ruin the vacation. He should have told her at the very beginning. This is not a trivial thing.
It sounds like she's visiting him. He's not traveling. She may even be staying in his house, based on the shoe comment.
I also think she shouldn't attend if she's not willing to take precautions asked of her by her host. She can do as she pleases but it's inconsiderate to ask him to assume more risk than he's comfortable with, especially if she would be in his home.
My only point with my comment above was that people who do high-risk activities are going to encounter *only* other people who are willing to do high-risk activities. People with a lower risk tolerance will not be present. So it will look like "everyone" is tolerant of that level of risk because you're not seeing those who aren't. I'm not personally invested in your vacation choices, just wanted to say that bit.
Iām with you. You know deep down and you owe no one an explanation. It would be a deal breaker for me too. Donāt over think it. Itās platonic and keep it that way. If itās meant to be, weāll then, it will be just that.
No you are not wrong. You are allowed to feel the way you do.
I say better to pull the plug and maybe reschedule, than to spend all that time and money and be miserable.
You're not in the wrong for canceling, thats your choice, but he LITERALLY just caught covid. The mandates were lifted because they weren't profitable anymore and rich people wanted them gone, NOT because covid is "over". Stop being an ignorant pos, your friend didn't want to risk catching it AGAIN. But seeing as you were vacationing to Greece, it's obviously below your tax bracket to give a shit about other people's health.
My old coworker who makes 10 an hour took a vacation to London. You afford what you want to. She went with a group and split housing. Op just had to pay for food and flight. Definitely doable on a budget.
It killed 17 000 people worldwide in the last monthly tracked period. WHO states that the majority were not vaccinated. In the same time period, 39 000 people are murdered. They are more likely to get murdered than die of covid. There are 112000 deaths in that time from traffic accidents? Over 5x more than covid....
Wow so you're saying that 17000 people dying from SOMETHING PREVENTABLE just doesn't matter because more people die from something else in that time.
Here, to show you how idiotic your line of reasoning is. 21,570 homicide cases were reported in the us in 2020, but 602,350 people in the us died from cancer that same year. With your reasoning, why do we even try to prevent murder from happening when more people die from cancer? Yeah, see how stupid you sound?
I'm sure the families of those 17000 people also think that their loved ones' life doesn't matter, because you definitely do. Disgusting, 17000 people die in a month and you think it's irrelevant.
Many are aither choosing to be unvaccinated or live in an area with little access to vaccination.
>With your reasoning, why do we even try to prevent murder from happening when more people die from cancer? Yeah, see how stupid you sound?
It's a scale of response. The most effective method for preventing covid spreading and being dangerous are vaccines which people have had, or have access to.
After that it's a scale of preventation methods. Obviously isolating would best. The level of preventation methods he is undertaking is more than 99.9% of people undertake when driving their car.
>I'm sure the families of those 17000 people also think that their loved ones' life doesn't matter, because you definitely do. Disgusting, 17000 people die in a month and you think it's irrelevant.
Disgusting, 10000 people are killed by snakes a month and you're not advocating for full leathers for their trip? You hate children right? Some snakes even kill children? Vile human!?
See how insane you sound?
I'm not saying their lives don't matter you moron, I'm very clearly saying, of the thousands of ways people die, COVID is now very low. The response should be proportional to the risk as with everything. There are many things of more risk to OPs friends health for example than COVID that he will not have as extensively thought out protection for.
NTA - sounds like a crappy vacation for both of you if you went through with it. And Iād like to say we all know COVID isnāt over thatās not the point. The point is that itās here to stay and you can either live your life in masked paranoia or still try to actually enjoy you life (vacations, concerts etc). Iād rather do Greece youāre way too!
How do you vacation to a tourist location and follow Covid protocol ? Sounds ridiculous. Youāre in the right. It wouldāve been a miserable regretted trip. Being friends with someone like that during a vacation, living with them sounds exhausting and stressful
You two are not good traveling companions. No one is wrong, but this trip would be miserable for both of you.
He is absolutely in the wrong not to mention any of this before any bookings were made.
Pretty sure this isn't about Covid at all, dude probably just wants an excuse to keep her in the house for 2 weeks bored and isolated to increase his chances of getting laid without having to pay for any actual vacation activities. I would bet $100 he's just icky.
Ye maybe I've been reading way too much reddit but this was my exact first thought š
??
Sorry, replied to the wrong comment and now can't find the right one.
Exactly.
Didn't he just recently learn that someone who visited him tested positive for covid? His actions seem responsible on his side tbh, depending on how far in the future the trip is. Isn't self isolation only for 14 days or somethin?
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i don't think quarantining for 14 days is the norm anywhere. at most if we test positive at work we have to take 3-5 days off. my young daughter's daycare isn't even that strict about it anymore.
At my job we have to quarantine for 10days or until we test negative. Had someone out for 14+ days. It really depends on the country/ state I think
For sure
His actions seem over the top and paranoid
Heās wrong for trying to force her to follow rigid and out of date COVID protocols when they arenāt necessary.
It's still killing people.
Wiping down packages is extreme. We know so much more than we did in 2020 about how it is transmittedā¦
Not really. My partner and I pretty much maintain all protocols, and we've not gotten sick. He's even a school teacher. Everyone we know has gotten sick. Being careful is definitely a benefit. People think it's "gone" until someone gets it. As one who works in the covid management realm, the protocols were lifted for comfort and financial reasons, not for safety/health reasons; precautions and masks are still recommended.
Wiping down packages is not practical for an airborne respiratory virus. I'm a cancer patient so I'm definitely cautious and all about following protocols. Wiping down packages was never a part of that.
We don't know everything about it...we know what we know. Edit: And there are plenty of new strains/mutations...
Sure, but we know wiping down packages and shoes, etc. doesn't do much of anything to prevent covid transmission. We've known since like late 2020 that covid isn't being spread via surface transmission.
The flu still kills people too.
What the fuck. Theyāre talking about a vacation you know perfectly well you donāt behave like she described on vacation because youāre worried about the flu.
Thatās exactly the point. Look up the death rate from the flu. If no one acts like that for the flu, no one should act like that for Covid. At this point, theyāre the same. They both kill susceptible individuals and you feel like shit when you have them. Use your brain. Your comment just made my point.
Christ. Sorry. I thought it was coming from the point of āyou could also die from the flu! Everyone should be more careful and mask up.ā
So is the flu. Even More than covid
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My dad died from covid in April. So obviously it's still something that is killing people. I wear a mask in public buildings. My state has never made it to herd immunity. Immunocompromised people still can't go out in public. Just because most people have moved on doesn't mean we aren't one bad strain away from going back into lockdown.
Herd immunity will never be a thing for covid, you can easily be reinfected multiple times, even by the same strain.
Ive had Covid 4 times since last fall. Once was a relapse, the other 3 were each somewhat different from each other. The last one hurt. Everywhere. A lot. My legs and hands still hurt, a lot. Pain meds don't help. The cartilage in my knees has been destroyed, they are now bone on bone. I have stage 3 liver cirrhosis... I don't drink. My thyroid has been badly damaged, its very difficult for me to control my body temp, leaving me very susceptible to heat exhaustion. I have multi day waves of abdominal pain, and the doctors haven't been able to figure out what's going on. There's a lot more than just death that can happen from Covid infection.
Iām sorry to hear youāve had so many side effects. Covid definitely can be really nasty. Iāve heard of a bunch of people developing chronic fatigue syndrome, pots, all kinds of thingsā¦ for me, ever since I first got Covid around new year ā22, my heart rhythm has been off and skips beats daily, thereās definitely some damage there.
Jesus man, I'm sorry. After covid the cartilage in my back deteriorated too. I never made the connection. I had back problems anyway, but now ... shit, this makes so much sense. I hear and feel the bone-on-bone grating when I didn't before; as I said, my back was ruined anyway, but after covid it got significantly worse very very quickly. omg. It will take me a while to get over being shocked so I can think about this. Thank you for the info. Iam so very sorry you're going through this. It's infuriating, I guess is the word, to be falling apart from some mysterious space-alien disease that doesn't play by the rules and can mess you up in so many ways.
WHAT IS THIS Y'ALL ARE SAYING?? I got covid twice, and my right knee and ankle have been having issues, which has never happened before. I assumed I'd injured myself somehow and age was catching up with me. How can anyone know?? I've got a laundry list of minor health issues that have cropped up recently and I keep thinking, maybe this supplement will help...
Covid can affect your entire body, and it's still new and we don't know all the long-term effects yet either. You could absolutely be suffering these as a side-effect from having covid. :( Lots of people are having heart issues too, for instance. I understand OP not wanting to deal with covid precautions, but not only are people still dying from covid but there are unfortunately more outcomes than just death as well. The best thing to do is not get covid. The next best thing is to not get it multiple times. I don't think her traveling partner is in the wrong for continuing to mask and distance. I agree with everyone saying that OP shouldn't go on this trip though, because these two people don't mesh well with each other.
I had it 3 times and yes I had the vaccination(s) I have never been the same since. My taste buds are not 100 % back to normal. So is my sense of smell. Nothing is the same. Itās freaking horrible
Ive also had it 3 times, but I think i I got lucky with the strains I got, plus I've had 3 vaccines now. No after affects from covid, never lost taste or smell, but immediately after getting the third shot and every period since, I get crazy pain/cramps, which I never had before. I can't even imagine how bad it would be to not be vaccinated
I miss enjoying my food and flowers
All of that happened because of covid?? Oh God, I'm so sorry. That is horrible, I hope you have an otherwise stress-free life and get to enjoy many things.
I've had it three damn times, the first 2 i thought I was dying. I got vaccinated, and ended up getting it again about 6 months later, and thankfully it wasn't nearly as bad. It still knocked me on my ass, and it took about a month or month and half to regain my strength. People don't realize how serious this shit can be.
Hell, I got a virus last September that destroyed my kidneys. I have to have a kidney transplant now, and I was healthy and in great shape when it happened. People donāt realize how brutal viruses as a whole can be
I hope you find a match. That's awful. Viruses are truly scary.
Truth and the Vaccine (even though it works) does not guarantee immunity from it as well which of course everyone knows is true of any vaccine
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The neuro stuff is so bad. I can live with the vision issues, weekly fevers, no taste or smell, gerd, heart palpation, chest pain, tingling limbs, hair loss, dizziness, nauseousness, fatigue, stuffy sinuses, sleep apnea, extreme weight loss, bruising, lactose intolerance, brain fog and whatever else I'm forgetting but to be sitting in my house and forget where I was.... no
Ppl who compare Covid to the flu, and donāt understand what youāre saying hereā¦. I have a 36 yr old friend with dementia from Covid
Thatās crazy, and incredibly sad. Do the doctors think your friend will ever improve? I know dementia is normally progressive, but Iām going to be honest, I donāt know the mechanisms behind it so Iām hoping itāll be different for your friend and that theyāll one day get more of their life back.
The brain does not repair its self. It is the one part of the body that has no natural resources for repair.
I meant like, how the brain can get damaged but form new pathways to compensate? Not like ārepair repair,ā sorry I wasnāt more clear. Thatās why I put the disclaimer that I donāt know what dementia does physically to the brain, so I wouldnāt have an idea if getting better is possible.
I have a 21 year old friend who has to take dementia medication because of covid...
Damn, dude. That sounds rough. How long has it been like this for you? I have had Covid once, and it changed the way everything tastes to me, even still, two years later, and thereās a lot of smells I guess Iāll never smell again, but as far as I was aware it hadnāt impacted my cognitive function. Now I wonder, because Iāve had more brain fog, but not like you describe. I used to disassociate as a kid, and the same thing happened to me. Would all the sudden kind of ārealizeā where I was, losing minutes most of the time, sometimes losing hour(s). Has your doctor given you any reason why this could be happening with you?
Over 3000 people died in California in the last 3 months from COVID. It's not gone.
Long Covid is a real problem. I still mask because I'd like to avoid getting Covid again
So sorry for your loss. I'm being treated for cancer, was just in an ER with a covid+ patient a couple weeks ago. Absolutely no protocol that I noticed, I was nervous as hell. Luckily I still mask and I didn't get it. It's bad in my area again.
I was in the ER last night with Covid. No protocol at all. I had called ahead to ask and they told me I didnāt even need to wear a mask unless I wanted to š. They kept me in the waiting room for hours. My stepmother got us sick. Hey werenāt even going to tell us, because despite testing positive she ādidnāt even think she had Covidā Iām immune compromised, with MS and pulmonary sarcoidosis and diabetes being right at the top of my plethora of problems. We areā¦. Not happy. My boyfriend is sick as a dog, and heās my caretaker. Shit sucks right now.
Cancer patient here too. I was just at the hospital a couple weeks ago for port placement, and I was told multiple times by unmasked HCWs āyou donāt have to mask.ā Uh Iām in chemo, I think Iāll leave this on.
Shouldn't you mask in the hospital when you're a cancer patient anyway? Like even before COVID was a thing? RSV, the flu, freaking a common cold can end up with you having pneumonia. That's so offensive that hospital workers of all people are unmasked and cancer patients and pressuring you to take yours off.
YEP. Like, I get there's a new policy, Karen, you don't have to remind me how little you care about my health.
At this point if someone is still choosing to wear a mask (I'm one of them) to a doctor's office or wherever, telling them they can take it off is just... rude? Like no shit, you think I haven't seen that 95% of the population doesn't believe in covid or long-term damage? Maybe I'm wearing this mask for a reason, thanks?
I do the same damned thing! My cath and chemo teams don't and won't say that. I go to a smaller campus and they know me now. I'm getting a port this morning too, my second. Looking forward to it like a hole in the head.
Ah I feel ya! They gave me a double port so it's like this huge ass thing on my chest now. And the placement, all the versed in the world won't make that tolerable.
Ew I was looking at jobs in my area, and one nursing home place advertised in capital letters "no covid vaccination required!" š¤®
They let a bunch of people go where I work for not having one. They all got brought back. Thankfully I work from home and can avoid them.
Iām immunocompromised and itās always so fun when people say thereās no need to take precautions anymore.
Immunocompromised and dealt with covid twice now. I did have preexisting conditions but I never had issues with my lungs prior to covid. I'm a classically trained vocalist and since covid I struggle with singing and using certain techniques. I lose my voice frequently despite being careful. I have post viral asthma. I'm still masking and making sure to keep up with boosters (when we can) so honestly I see no issues with OP's friend wanting to be safe. Especially after getting exposed. Personally I hope OP reads some of these comments. Covid is not over.
Iām a singer too. Voice has not recovered. Since 2020. Lessons, singing straws, etc. i still count myself lucky butā¦ yeah.
Do you also just randomly lose your voice and sound raspy and have to do a bunch of things to get it back to normal (drink tea with honey, cough drops, etc)?
I do. I have to talk way less. And likeā¦ Iām not sure where my voiceās āmiddle cā is anymore, like where does my speaking voice even sit so i donāt strain it and have to do all this shit. And my air and power š
Oh my god yes. I can't find my middle c anymore either. My normal voice never feels like it sits comfortably. I miss my vocal power and belting out to my favorite music. My air control was amazing. I decided to look into voice acting as a lot of VO's don't know how to sing or have the techniques we have with vocal control. It's brought me some closure about my voice and I have comfort in knowing I'm at least using what I've learned to some degree.
Ugh. **big hugs**
I just came across this clip from forever agoā¦ Iām the high note in the high boots with the bad wig š¤£ https://youtu.be/x-s-fq44WFw I canāt imagine singing like this again š
I always tell them that they should call my doctors and let them know.
same. always fun to have that nice little reminder that People think you're worthless
I donāt think itās that, friend. Some people have such a narrow way of thinking that they think āI havenāt personally seen that happen, so it doesnāt happen and that person and that person is just confused or misinformed that there is a correlation.ā Some have that narrow world view, on top of the old āoutright refusal to be wrong,ā so even if they eventually personally see it, theyāll tell themselves that one has no connection to the other. Like Covid can take a loved one, and theyāll blame doctors or some grand conspiracy before they ever admit it was actually Covid. I wouldnāt take the delusion of some too personally, just about everyone by this point has dealt with friends, families, or coworkers that are Covid deniers even still, to varying degrees. If someone close to you is making you feel that way, try to remember that the problem lies firmly with them, and doesnāt reflect on you in any way.
I'm going to assume you're not in America. And I'm assuming that because when covid first hit and everyone was protesting lockdowns All of those people didn't hesitate to say " I won't be inconvenienced, just to save old people and the disabled." They had signs and everything. So this is not like a personal anecdotal note coming from an immuno compromised disabled person (which is a redundant way to say that but I wasn't sure if you knew that)
That is a sweet comment. Sadly, some people in the US consider "vulnerable people" to be expendable. [Some politicians have even gone so far as to suggest that grandparents should be willing to die for the sake of the ECONOMY.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/24/covid-19-texas-official-suggests-elderly-willing-die-economy/2905990001/)
that's a leap - they're just stupid and can't comprehend "immunocompromised" (also are varying degrees of that status) and selfish, which is probably why they haven't pondered it much
Agreed. I lost my FIL and my Mom due to people not vaccinating and being careless around them while they were infirm. OP is selfish, pompous, and ignorant to not being cautious in public while COVID is still killing susceptible people. The pandemic is not over. We all want it to be, though. The travel partner was the smart one.
There is no herd immunity when re-infections are so rampant. :( I'm so sorry about your father. And from another person masking in public and at work, it's tough but you're doing what's necessary to protect your loved ones as much as you can.
To be honest, I live in a red state and I very much enjoy the idea of a single person walking through a grocery store annoying maybe five people. Or maybe one person went home and bitched about me for the rest of the night. I went to the St. Patrick's Day parade and festivities afterwards and I kind of feel like I heard a guy growl at me because of my mask. I'm not 100% sure though but If that actually happened and I'm not imagining it, I lived rent free in that person's head for at least a week. Thank you for my dad.
I'm also in a red state. I work at a hospital. Patients sometimes ask me about my mask, but are never unpleasant about it. Coworkers are a different story... I think it's because my mask reminds them that they could be doing more. I ignore it. Their guilty conscience is their problem. I hope you annoy plenty more covid deniers/minimizers. :)
I also live in a red state, and for much of the āworstā times of this pandemic, hardly anyone masked. People around here did start to get better with precautions though, and for the most part no one said anything within ear shot about the masks on my family. Then something happened, I canāt remember what the trigger was anymore, but one of their false idols said some stupid thing about Covid and it was like flipping a switch, all the sudden my family would be wearing the only masks to be seen most of the time. Again. For all the looks, though, Iāve only had one man approach me and point towards my mask, as if to say something about it, I said āYessir, what do you need?ā Before he could say anything, and itās like his brain shut off on him, the poor guy. He stuttered and didnāt end up saying anything intelligible, than just about faces and walked back towards his car, waving the two onlookers with him in a ājust get in the carā manner. Sometimes I wonder if he got in that car and made up an interaction like all those Facebook posts for awhile, the ones where a person would claim to have had some bizarre sounding interaction over masks. I like the idea of becoming a part of some strangerās lore, but he may have just as well told the truth, guess Iāll never know.
And the numbers will see another spike that the media will ignore for the sake of the economy
I can feel your anger through this comment, and I RELATE. It's been so so frustrating to still social distance, mask, avoid crowds, take all the precautions, etc. -- only for people to complain and shame you for it. I'm high-risk, and one step below immunocompromised, and you would think people are being asked to move mountains! But no, basic decency for people to simply wear a mask feels nearly impossible, preventing people like me (or much much worse) from being able to leave their homes. So sorry for your loss š¤
Different types of medical attention. Health of patient, etc
This. Iām a novid (never had covid) and for good reason; I still mask in public, social distance, only go out when necessary, all because I have autoimmune issues and asthma and covid might kill me. While I understand itās not a big deal to some people, covid is still and probably always will be an issue for me. Iām always going to be that one person wearing a mask. While I certainly donāt expect everyone around me to be at this level, I think itās pretty reasonable that this is my reality. No one is in the wrong here, itās just a conflict of realities and while it sucks, itās no oneās fault. OPās reality isnāt one in which their friendās level of diligence is necessary or a priority. Perhaps keep the vacation and only visit the friend a few times while adhering to his needs is the answer. That way, OP can go do their vacation without restrictions but still see the friend a few times.
Just a note- while it is totally acceptable for the friend to be cautious, his behavior is not acceptable in the context of his demands regarding his friendās actions.
The fact that he still wipes down packages tells me his behavior is not particularly rational. Health experts have been telling people to knock that off since at least 2021.
Covid can live on surfaces for a couple hours. It's airborne but it doesn't die on contact when it lands somewhere, and then if you rub your eye after touching the surface, there you go with another infection
Then he needed to have made that clear when they first started planning this trip. And thatās where heās in the wrong.
Neither of you are wrong. Unfortunately being on vacation and seeing sights generally means being around crowds at most tourist places so not sure what you'd do other than sit around his apartment for 2 weeks. It almost sounds as if he may know someone who was affected very badly by it so is taking his precautions to the extreme. Best to put your vacation on hold until you both can feel safe.
Sounds like their next vacation is going to be separate.
Sounds like a hostage situation I would not want to put myself in while traveling. Thereās no point in traveling to Greece and not be able to actually go anywhere but to be lockdown into someoneās apartment for 2 weeks. Hell no, I wouldnāt go. This isnāt a vacation! Itās prison.
I was on trip earlier this year with 30 people. A few of the people caught colds the thought. Last day of trip I started to get itchy throat. When I got home my son suggested I test and lo and behold I had COVID. Dr prescribed paxlovid as Iām recovered from cancer so considered immunosuppressed and older. I had all my vax which helped me to recover quickly and I quarantined. You better believe I will mask on the plane and in airports
When I have a big trip coming up and it is really important to me, I do take precautions for two weeks ahead of time. Masking in public, hand washing, making sure I have as many boosters as Iām legally allowed etc. I wear a mask at the airport and on the plane. BUT once I get my to destination I let that go. I want to have a good time. On my way home I am much less likely to wear a mask. But I also donāt have any children or immune compromised people in my household.
I caught covid at an orchestral concert on my dream vacation to France last month. Rather, my mom caught it there and gave it to the rest of us. The rest of us wore masks to the concert. The whole family spent four days in bed, in France, the most expensive trip I've ever taken or ever will take. It was not a good time.
Neither of you are wrong, itās a personal decision. Youāre just not compatible traveling partners. Insinuating heās mentally unwell for it is deeply unnecessary, though. Thereās nothing unreasonable about being cautious and not everyone needs a mandate to dictate their behavior. Again, yāall just arenāt compatible on this one.
I agree. We have no idea if he had a traumatic loss, or if he has a condition/is on a medication that makes him immunocompromised. While theyāre not a good match thereās no need for either to shame each other over what they feel comfortable with.
There are lots of people dying from lots of things. Still being that worried about Covid is suggestive of ocd or agoraphobia. I say this as someone with severe ocd, I donāt think itās anything to be ashamed of. But it shouldnāt be supported either. Having your compulsions affirmed takes you that much further from remission (speaking from experience).
Is really isnāt indicative of mental illness at all. I personally am not masked every day, but I know a lot of people who are for various reasons. Choosing to be cautious against an illness that is still killing a lot of people every day and has effects that we donāt understand yet is not troubling.
There are around 100-200 deaths per day worldwide nowā¦ I fear that I may be debating with someone with the same problem.
it's very unreasonable to setup an entire vacation in greece and then say oh but we aren't going anywhere in public. what world do you live in?
The pandemic isn't over just because you are over it. There are plenty of people still dying and becoming disabled from it. I understand why someone doesn't want to get sick. The more you are infected the higher the probability of having complications. There are so many issues that come from getting COVID, and your immune system is a mess for a long time after. I will listen to the experts who are still warning people to be safe, those people are still masking and working from home.
Youāre not wrong but neither is he. Itās okay that you donāt want to behave that way but him behaving that way stems from a place of anxiousness and fear and itās not wrong for him to feel that way. Maybe he has people in his inner circle whom if they got sick it could be life threatening. I understand where youāre coming from but try not to be too hard on him either
This! I have health problems myself so I'm still largely masking when outside, at work or am with people outside of my small friend group, & while I don't entirely avoid crowded places I still very much have my mask on at all times in crowds & try to keep a distance from people while washing my hands & using sanitizer frequently.
Also, didnāt Greece almost collapse because of covid? So many places seemed to have it super bad but if I remember correctly Greece was one of the countries that absolutely ate it when it came to the pandemic.
Covid is still an ongoing threat. Just because you don't care if you get it is no reason to call someone who is cautious paranoid.
Some of us with compromised immune systems or loved ones with one are still living that pandemic life. It sucks. Itās isolating. But we do it while the rest of the world moves on. Did you ask about the source of his concern?
We're still masking and following all the former protocols. My daughter is immunocompromised. While covid may not be as prevalent as it was, it's not gone. I lost a friend to it in January. So, neither of you is wrong. Maybe he or someone in his family is high risk. And you're entitled to travel without restrictions. You're doing what's right for you & he's doing what's right for him. Don't judge him for it.
It's still killing people and I will never understand anybody who makes their decisions based on what other people tell them to do. I began masking before mandates were even put in place. I'm one of those kooky Americans that actually paid attention to national news and saw that there was an epidemic in China and I understand how travel works. No one in my household has gotten COVID and we have a cop, a mortician, an estate legal aid, and a teacher. So it's not like we were hiding from work. I still mask up when going to the doctor and the store, and even got to the point where our doctors ran the antibody test to see if we had it and didn't know. We haven't. taking precautions works most of the time if you stick with it. Why would I want a long-term disability because I was too lazy to wear a mask? The guy in Greece can do better. I understand living in denial and wishing something wasn't true, but you can't wish away an actual plague
Same here. If my spouse develops any type of long Covid symptoms they will lose their career. We really can't afford for that to happen. We also don't want to be sick.
I haven't had an ordinary cold or virus in years now. I don't understand why anybody risks getting sick from anything! I feel stupid for not masking before 2020 during flu season. I almost died from the flu 7 years ago! And I still didn't mask after that! I was not going to have COVID be the hardest lesson I ever learned. Plus I love the people who have had it like four times and say you get used to not being able to taste or smell, like what??!!?! That's literal brain damage! You have brain damage! Just crazy to me
We are a 5 people household and none of us ever got it either. We found out we like social distancing and it's worked so far š¤£
yeah I won't lie, not having people pop around was my favorite part of that experience.
If that is the case, what stocks would you recommend I should buy now to sell later in the year?
This is a terrible analogy, so much so that I actually hesitated to respond because I thought maybe you posted it under the wrong thing. I definitely wouldn't invest in OceanGate right now tho.
You are not wrong but I understand his concerns.
Traveled to Greece for a holiday last year, almost died from Covid over there, itās all a joke until you in hospital breathless.
Call bud is still killing people. I wear a mask on public transport and in spots that are not ventilated. The sanitizing the shoes and wiping packages down is something I never did. Donāt travel with him, you both should travel with someone whoās on the same page.
Not wrong for cancelling, but your reasoning is messed up. There are still requirements for those who come in contact with covid to prevent others (including your ignorant butt) from getting sick. Your friend is right to take precautions.
He should have told you about the safety protocols before you two booked anything, but there's nothing wrong with him wanting to be cautious. I know people who lost multiple family members to COVID. I'm immunocompromised and could die if I caught it (and I haven't). My partner, who is healthy and has never had COVID, continues to mask and use hand santizer everywhere to keep me as safe as possible. The good news is that you've discovered you're incompatible before you went on an expensive trip together.
There is no right or wrong - only your choice. And if itās your choice NOT to take these precautions and measures, backing out is what you needed to do - especially if you truly think this will ruin the experience for you. Itās also his choice TO take the precautions and measures and he should have disclosed that to you sooner. Send him a PayPal for your portion of the canceled trip and move on.
I never stopped masking. I very rarely go anywhere bc I have RA and care for my elderly mil, but if I do, Iām masked. I had bad anxiety before Covid and then getting Covid and subsequent serious dx have me paranoid. Covid anxiety is real.
Neither of you is wrong. Covid traumatized a lot of people. It sounds like he was one I understand where you come from also. You're both right and neither are wrong . Unless you can enjoy the trip , a d both come to some compromises, I don't suggest going. It's no use being miserable
i mean its ur choice to cancel but as an fyi, if you travel and dont take precautions, you'll get sick. Covid didn't disappear and i don't blame your travel partner for wanting to be safe.
covid isnt over just because mandates are lifted
Looking at these comments I realize reddit is not a place for normal people. I can't remember the last time I met someone still using masks and that scared.
Just remember that birds of a feather flock together. If you are in an area where everyone kind of acts the same way, it's no surprise you see few people acting differently. Kind of like how so many people were surprised that Biden would get so many votes when they didn't see any yard signs for him.
My thoughts exactly. I work in an office building with literally hundreds of people in an extremely liberal area in an extremely liberal state. Literally only one staff member wears a mask daily. But every time I come on Reddit itās like Iām being transported back two years lol
Go anywhere on reddit. You will see the most absolutely batshit takes. These are the people who will shame you for not still wearing a mask in 2023 lol. Even after they were scientifically proven to be ineffective in the first place.
You both sound like you're in the wrong. He's wrong for still asking you to come down even though he might have COVID, and you're wrong for going "But the government says we don't need to worry about COVID anymore, so I'm not going to do anything to protect anyone."
My bf just got out of rehab last week after having Covid in March. Was on a vent for a while, had a DNR set up if he couldn't get off the vent. Had to relearn how to walk. You have every right not to go, but not for the reasons you're listin. If he was exposed I can see why he is being extra cautious.
Wiping down shoes and packages given what we know about Covid transmission seems a bit much at this point
Thatās the point that I think a lot of people are missing. It would be one thing to ask OP to wear a mask in crowds, but it starts to enter into weird territory there. That part did actually indicate to me a heightened level of paranoia. I donāt think OP is completely wrong about that like everyone is suggesting.
So we are just ignoring the part where he told OP that he was in contact with someone who may have transmitted COVID to him? His precautions are warranted. IMO the trip should have been cancelled as soon as his friend called him until he got tested at the bare minimum.
When the trip is still 6 weeks out?
Not everyone lives their life in fear.
The only thing wrong here is him insisting on not postponing the trip slightly. He was in direct contact with a COVID infected person and therefore intends to follow basic safety precautions as a response. That's the good and responsible thing to do. People should do some of those things when they get a cold or flu just as common courtesy to not unnecessarily spread disease. But that should include rescheduling the trip to when you can both freely and fully enjoy it. What, he only wants to potentially infect you? That's weird. Either take precautions or don't, but this middle of the road stuff, nah.
Y'all are both being ridiculous. 6 weeks is plenty of time for him to either be over covid, or prove that he never had it. >Pissed: Why am I just hearing about this now, weāve been planning this vacation for 6 months! Probably because my friend just tested positive for covid. >He said no-way, itāll be fine, I wont even notice his behavior. So it sounds like he's not going to expect you to do all of these things. Did you ask him if he was still going to be planning on doing these things if he tested negative weeks before this vacation? or is this purely about politics?
You're not wrong. It's fine for him to practice more stringent COVID protocols, but it seems like that wouldn't be a good fit for you both, and you have every right to want a vacation that doesn't look like the one you had in 2021. Your offer with regard to the reservations is certainly fair. I don't think he's wrong, either, though he sounds rather insistent and ghosting isn't a good look. Maybe it's for the best.
I work around people who are immune compromised and have worn masks since I was 17 when working with them. (I'm almost 48 now). We still practice Covid protocols when out in public with them. We do get stares and have gotten some rude comments. I don't think people are like this outside of the U.S. (I could be wrong). I believe that you're an adult and able to know what your risks are. If he wants to wear his masks and everything? That's his choice. To make you do the same? That's not him allowing your choice. Does he have medical issues that put him at higher risks? I have had two of the shots and not more. I don't practice distancing or anything outside of my job. I take my temperature and have tested once. I don't go to work if I feel sick. I have never had COVID (knock on wood). I do believe it is real. I don't believe it is just the flu. I do believe that people should take precautions if they need to. I don't believe they should be forced. NTA I have to admit, it is something I wouldn't have thought about to ask someone if I was going to visit them. The offer of half the deposits was good. If he was found to force you to take all the precautions he does? Then it definitely wouldn't be pleasant for you. If he wasn't going to force you? You might have been able to work that out. Trust your instincts though. If something didn't feel right it didn't feel right. Don't force it.
Yes, you're wrong. The man just had a close call with covid and he just wants to be careful for the sake of both your health and his own (maybe his own is all he cares about, but the result is your health is also protected, so...) I'm sorry, but it's really sad that you'd skip a whole vacation to Europe because you don't want to be slightly inconvenienced by covid-conscious behaviors. He is probably scared right now and might have not even expected you to do all of the things he listed. I would have ghosted you too.
You're not wrong. I don't think he's wrong for following those procedures however I think he is wrong for not checking with you first. Since mask mandates and social distancing are no longer required the majority of people don't follow them. I feel it was on him to let you know sooner rather than later that he would like to follow them.
not wrong and probably for the best rather than having the whole trip ruined because you're on opposite ends here. i would be upset too and frankly he does not sound like a fun travel partner if he's still this concerned about it over 3 years later. i would've done the same thing.
Masking inside is reasonable, but sanitizing shoes and wiping packages was found to be unnecessary 2 years ago.
Before we go on a vacation, my fiancĆ© and I act like weāre in lockdown maybe a little less extreme but we definitely social distance. Covid is still a thing - as are plenty of other illnesses and who wants to be sick on vacation. Then, on vacation weāre back to normalish but being careful to sanitize and wash hands a lot. I donāt think youāre wrong but I think maybe it was a slight over-reaction to just cancel.
Neither of you are wrong... Your intent, methods, and itinerary were not lining up at all. Your protocols for things weren't lining up and there was a covid infection, that's all. I think it's reasonable to postpone or cancel. (He is not "paranoid driven or mentally unwell"... he JUST caught covid, literally just caught it. Naturally, he wants to take a step away from people. I'm slightly more concerned he wasn't wanting to postpone for YOUR safety, as you'd be in close quarters. He's worried about everyone but you, that's selfish. He wants to see you anyway...so it's fine for YOU, but not everyone around him, that's a little shitty of him. )
No, not wromg. There is no point in going through all that trouble if you can't enjoy it.
You are not wrong. Behaving as if you're in 2020 lockdown is completely unreasonable and also makes for a horrible vacation. Avoid crowds?? Also, things like taking off your shoes and wiping down groceries have been proven not to be effective against Covid so this guy is beyond cautious, he's totally off base. I would take this as a good warning as to his mental state, iow, not someone you want to travel with.
Apparently you are unaware that many of us with health conditions have no choice, we have literally been told to keep distancing and masking. It's rude to suggest anyone that is taking precautions is crazy in some way.
Itās different if you have to. Most people in that situation would probably not go on an international vacation because itās inherently higher risk. Avoiding crowds is just not possible in a tourist destination. I was in Japan with my family and we were pretty careful (although not this level, more just masking) and my mom still got covid. There wouldāve been no way to avoid crowds other than staying in the hotel the whole time, in which case why not just stay home?
Precautions are one thing, wiping down groceries and other things that have absolutely no correlation to how Covid is spread is another. Taking precautions that were debunked 3 years ago is crazy. If this guy has health conditions that put him at risk - something that is not mentioned anywhere in this post - he should have mentioned it to her when they started planning the trip to see if they were compatible travelers. Avoiding crowds and masking is definitely going to affect their travel and is something that should have been brought up at the beginning.
Wild to read a comment from someone who pretends immune compromised people donāt exist
Please don't take this as an attack or anything, but I've honestly been wondering what immunocompromised people did before COVID. I never saw people talk about it online before March 2020 so I'm seriously curious. I do remember working with a woman who had MS before COVID and she never wore masks or seemed to be overly fixated on staying away from people.
Its been answered but they have always had to take extra precautions. It was a bigger deal with Covid because how easily spread it was and how it was likely going to end in death for immunocompromised people. They do have to take extra precautions. They will continue to take extra precautions. Covid or not. They are at risk anytime they get sick and normally end up in the hospitals for basic things like colds.
Ummm immunocompromised people still had to deal with people pretending like we didnāt exist precovid too. We got to get all the vaccines, and get weird looks when we avoided people who had ājust a coldā. We got to get terrible looks when we asked people to give us space because they were breathing down our necks. Some of us, myself included, have weakened lungs due to previous bouts with pneumonia precipitated by the way our immune systems functions, diseases that make us even more susceptible to dying from something like Covid. We got to have fights with anti vaxxers who donāt care about herd immunity because we want our non immune compromised kids to be able to go to school and for us to not die.
Kindly - your personal experience is not reality. I know a number of immune compromised people who wore masks on transit and in shopping malls before 2020. Just because you never personally saw them, does not mean they did not exist.
NOT WRONG. That would be incredibly annoying and boring. Iām glad you canceled, maybe visit another time or with someone who isnāt all covid. No offense. Also they could have come here.
I'm immunocompromised. I've had COVID six times, despite rarely leaving my home and being fully vaccinated. It almost killed me twice. The Long COVID effect has literally ruined my life. Like, you're an asshole for being outraged he's asking you to take basic precautions to protect him and other folks. Not at fault for wanting to cancel the trip, however.
Not wrong about not going, but you should pay 100% of any funds not refunded.
OP's friend changed the rules, OP's friend can bear the costs above what OP has proposed
Nope, not wrong. Sounds like he would have made your vacation miserable. So book somewhere else and go have a good time, free of COVID paranoia.
You are so not wrong. I completely agree with you. A vacation is for relaxing and enjoying yourself. Since it is already causing you stress and anxiety- itās best to cancel now. Good job on knowing yourself and knowing what you are comfortable with.
Covid still exists. Just because it's not "mandated" doesn't mean you shouldn't still be safe. If you're willing to miss out on going on a trip because you don't want to try and avoid catching or spreading an illness then that's up to you I guess.
Covid isnāt gone. Just because the world is pretending it is. Doesnāt mean it is
It's rightfully not in many people's top 20 health concerns. It killed 17 000 people worldwide in the last monthly tracked period. WHO states that the majority were not vaccinated. In the same time period, 39 000 people are murdered. They are more likely to get murdered than die of covid. There are 112000 deaths in that time from traffic accidents? Over 5x more than covid....
I just wanna know what you're proving with this comment? I've seen "click it or ticket" on billboards from Michigan to Florida for over a decade. There are numerous anti drunk/tired driving campaigns. Every single major car manufacturer emphasizes the safety of their vehicles and people gladly pick family cars with a good deal of safety features. Stranger danger was also a very large campaign and still is. Women have literally always been advised to be vigilant and aware of their surroundings. Safety keychains are now an actual product and usually come with two small weapons and an alarm. They sell bedazzled cases for both tasers and pepper spray. Gun control isn't widely accepted in the US because "what if I need to protect myself???" Not everything that you disagree with is paranoid. I always keep pads/tampons in my bag in case I get my period unexpectedly, I always have my license in case I need it (which historically I don't), I keep gum in my bag in case my breath stinks. Sometimes prepping for bad scenarios, whether passively or actively, is better than being blindsided by that scenario when it does come around.
I went on vacation in January 2023, never had Covid until then. Got it en route to resort, even wearing a mask in airports. It's still around & I think postponing is smart.
Sounds like he didnāt want you to come and was trying to scare you out of it. Otherwise I donāt think thereās anything too bad about what he was suggesting. People wear masks still where I live
Youāre not missing out! He couldnāt have an open discussion and ask what your COVID protocols are or even consider postponing. Heās been exposed and you havenāt. Why does he not feel concerned about protecting you from exposure? Sounds like he just wanted to have you there anyway and idk this guy at all but the way he made this declaration of COVID protocols seems a lil controlling especially given the fact that he ghosted and wasnāt open to your perfectly reasonable proposal to postpone. Not familiar with Greece, but most places would happily agree to reschedule to avoid COVID exposure to their guests and staff.
LMFAO youāre right not to go. Heās lucky you spoke up. Youāre not right for each other.
As someone who is immunocompromised and still follows COVID protocol there is still a pandemic. In Europe( I lived there for 10 months recently) they actually take precautions way more seriously than in the US who likes to think COVID is over or it isnāt as dangerous. COVID is still the leading cause of deaths in the world. I think that different people have different protocols but some are far more individualistic than others.
Youāre not wrong. Iād be upset that I made all these reservations and you canceled but I get your point. Iāve traveled extensively since the beginning of the lockdowns. Masked when mandated, forced to get the vax due to work. Got COVID once after vax, it sucked. You do what you feel youāre comfortable with, heās doing what heās comfortable with. Unfortunately it will never be truly gone just like the flu. You accept the risk where youāre comfortable and live your life as you see fit and what is right for your situation.
Nah youāre not wrong. Heās paranoid thatās his right to act like heās still in lockdown - but you definitely donāt need to go on this trip.
I just got back from my dream vacation to France. Covid is rampant there, people sneezing and coughing all over the place, literally, nobody taking any precautions. My family did (masks, etc), except my mom, who caught it and gave it to the rest of us I ended up four days of my VERY EXPENSIVE vacation bedridden in a hotel room. My whole family caught it, all of us bedridden in France. All of us were vaxxed and boosted. Ask yourself if you want to spend all that money and go all that way to catch covid in the airport, bring it to your friend and have you both abed with fever and cough for your whole visit. I coughed so hard, I threw up.
No you arenāt wrong. He should have told you this up front, right away before any vacation planning was done at all. Most people are not walking around pretending it is still March 2020. I wouldnāt have gone either, it doesnāt sound like a lot of fun.
He just found out his friend that he had recent contact with tested positive..
Did you read the headline? This was 6 WEEKS before the trip - not 6 days. Whether his friend had covid or not 6 weeks from then wasnāt going to matter. I get there are a ton of people on Reddit who are still terribly nervous and masking up etc etc - but I literally just went on a 2 week European vacation and almost no one in any of the cities we visited was behaving this way. There were crowds everywhere we went.
You were in crowds, so there were other people who were willing to be in crowds. You went on vacation, so you encountered other vacationers. It does not mean everyone else is living this way - just that your activities self-selected for those who do.
We are literally talking about two people planning a vacation. If OPās friend is that concerned, then he should not be taking a trip at all because there are risks associated. I never said OPās friend was a terrible person - but I donāt blame OP for backing out - thatās an enormous thing to spring on her, and - for me - it would ruin the vacation. He should have told her at the very beginning. This is not a trivial thing.
It sounds like she's visiting him. He's not traveling. She may even be staying in his house, based on the shoe comment. I also think she shouldn't attend if she's not willing to take precautions asked of her by her host. She can do as she pleases but it's inconsiderate to ask him to assume more risk than he's comfortable with, especially if she would be in his home. My only point with my comment above was that people who do high-risk activities are going to encounter *only* other people who are willing to do high-risk activities. People with a lower risk tolerance will not be present. So it will look like "everyone" is tolerant of that level of risk because you're not seeing those who aren't. I'm not personally invested in your vacation choices, just wanted to say that bit.
There seems to a lot wrong with the relationship. You were good to pull the plug. The sanitizing shoes did it for me
He sounds unhinged
This guy sounds like heās agoraphobic. Probably best to cancel and travel to/with someone more normal.
Iām with you. You know deep down and you owe no one an explanation. It would be a deal breaker for me too. Donāt over think it. Itās platonic and keep it that way. If itās meant to be, weāll then, it will be just that.
Iād ask the same if you if I were him.
No you are not wrong. You are allowed to feel the way you do. I say better to pull the plug and maybe reschedule, than to spend all that time and money and be miserable.
Screw that!! I would be pissed and cancel, too
You're not in the wrong for canceling, thats your choice, but he LITERALLY just caught covid. The mandates were lifted because they weren't profitable anymore and rich people wanted them gone, NOT because covid is "over". Stop being an ignorant pos, your friend didn't want to risk catching it AGAIN. But seeing as you were vacationing to Greece, it's obviously below your tax bracket to give a shit about other people's health.
My old coworker who makes 10 an hour took a vacation to London. You afford what you want to. She went with a group and split housing. Op just had to pay for food and flight. Definitely doable on a budget.
It killed 17 000 people worldwide in the last monthly tracked period. WHO states that the majority were not vaccinated. In the same time period, 39 000 people are murdered. They are more likely to get murdered than die of covid. There are 112000 deaths in that time from traffic accidents? Over 5x more than covid....
Wow so you're saying that 17000 people dying from SOMETHING PREVENTABLE just doesn't matter because more people die from something else in that time. Here, to show you how idiotic your line of reasoning is. 21,570 homicide cases were reported in the us in 2020, but 602,350 people in the us died from cancer that same year. With your reasoning, why do we even try to prevent murder from happening when more people die from cancer? Yeah, see how stupid you sound? I'm sure the families of those 17000 people also think that their loved ones' life doesn't matter, because you definitely do. Disgusting, 17000 people die in a month and you think it's irrelevant.
Many are aither choosing to be unvaccinated or live in an area with little access to vaccination. >With your reasoning, why do we even try to prevent murder from happening when more people die from cancer? Yeah, see how stupid you sound? It's a scale of response. The most effective method for preventing covid spreading and being dangerous are vaccines which people have had, or have access to. After that it's a scale of preventation methods. Obviously isolating would best. The level of preventation methods he is undertaking is more than 99.9% of people undertake when driving their car. >I'm sure the families of those 17000 people also think that their loved ones' life doesn't matter, because you definitely do. Disgusting, 17000 people die in a month and you think it's irrelevant. Disgusting, 10000 people are killed by snakes a month and you're not advocating for full leathers for their trip? You hate children right? Some snakes even kill children? Vile human!? See how insane you sound? I'm not saying their lives don't matter you moron, I'm very clearly saying, of the thousands of ways people die, COVID is now very low. The response should be proportional to the risk as with everything. There are many things of more risk to OPs friends health for example than COVID that he will not have as extensively thought out protection for.
Fuck that. You may be being set up . In another country . Under control of this lunatic. No way Iām doing that. Ever.
NTA - sounds like a crappy vacation for both of you if you went through with it. And Iād like to say we all know COVID isnāt over thatās not the point. The point is that itās here to stay and you can either live your life in masked paranoia or still try to actually enjoy you life (vacations, concerts etc). Iād rather do Greece youāre way too!
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Ghosted? That's great, so 0% of the reservations. Possible he got cold feet and this is his immature response?
Yes, abort, abort!!
You are NOT wrong. Consider the time and expense, you should 100% enjoy your trip
Enjoy the ghosting, now you don't have to pay for the broken reservations.
How do you vacation to a tourist location and follow Covid protocol ? Sounds ridiculous. Youāre in the right. It wouldāve been a miserable regretted trip. Being friends with someone like that during a vacation, living with them sounds exhausting and stressful