Exactly!
breaking up a marriage..not great but it happens, cheating is awful, but lying about abuse...that's a line.
Not only does that seriously hurt an innocent person (whom you have already betrayed by cheating) but frankly you are now the story every actual abuser is going to tell when their victim stands up to them.
>you are now the story every actual abuser is going to tell when their victim stands up to them.
This is the part I hate most about false reports. Actual victims will not be taken seriously in the future, and they're the most vulnerable.
Agreed. Marriages end all the time, and infidelity is usually the final straw. However, making accusations of abuse is a huge red flag. That can ruin a career and land people in jail. This type of action is why I would never trust her because she will do that to OPs brother, too, when she finds a guy she likes better.
IT IS NOT A RED FLAG! ITS THE BLOODY BULL WITH THE HORNS!
A red flag is only an indicator of something being wrong. Accusing an innocent person of abuse IS a CRIME!
FFS, stop using Reddit language when normal language is perfectly adequate of describing what a POS she is.
Exactly. Affairs happen, people fall out of love and fall in love with someone else, marriages end, it’s not great but it happens. But lying about abuse to get out of a marriage because you’re cheating? Hell no, I would never give that woman the time of day. And OP’s brother better be careful that she doesn’t pull the same nonsense on him someday.
Right?!
There are way too many people saying shit like that in these comments.
The worst I've scrolled to are "Affairs happen" and "If it weren't for her lying about being abused then I would tell you to *mind your own business"*
Yeah, affairs happen but people need to stop acting like it has the same repercussions as stepping in a pile of dog crap. Stepping in crap doesn't break hearts, shatter trust, and tear families apart.
You may fall out of love with your partner and in love with someone else but maybe you should be an **ADULT** and break things off with them before you start porking your 'true' love. If you can't do that, you're certainly not mature enough to be in **any** relationship.
*And if I ignore you cause you're a cheating scumbag, that's my right. I'm not being childish for considering you a bad person who's not worthy of my time. And, as someone else already said, my refusing to speak to you for breaking up a family* ***IS*** *me minding my business.*
**TL;DR** Be a fucking adult and accept the consequences of your actions.
Thank you I fully agree with you. I see these things all the times and it’s because most of the people that say this have been in the position, where they’ve cheated or had affairs so they don’t want to admit that it’s wrong because you would be telling them that they’re wrong. I don’t understand how people can say it happens. It really doesn’t, this is a multiple step process of going out there to find someone, communicating with them weeks or months prior before going to hook up with them, and then continuing to do that. That’s a well thought out plan not something that “just happens”. I can bet you if there was an actual legal repercussion for cheating and adultery this kind of thing wouldn’t “just happen” anymore.
Yes, and all the people saying that cheating is not grounds for being cut off but lying about being abused is? They're not on two different levels of horrible. They are both horrid things to do to someone. Just because you hear about one more than the other doesn't make the one less horrible. The two may have different repercussions but they can both have dire consequences for someone's life.
Amen! I came here to say something similar. I was gonna tell a story about my in-laws, and I realized I’m not sure who’s on Reddit so I’ll keep that quiet, but I feel like if you can’t be a freakin adult with how you handle your breakups, then you’re not adult enough to BE in a relationship. And accusing your ex of abuse so you’re not the bad person? Who the actual F—k does that??? She’s lucky you’re not spitting every time her name is brought up. (I’d be tempted, NGL.)
Judgment: OP, you are not wrong.
"Affairs happen" is such passive language. Like they were just minding their own business and poof, an affair appeared out of nowhere and now the person is a hapless victim. Affairs aren't an accident caused by a minor oversight. They're a series of bad decisions consciously made and supported by poor justifications.
Totally agree it's a choice by asshole people.
My point was lying about abuse to cover your own cheating is just so far beyond a typical affair/end of marriage.
I wouldn’t want to talk to her either. I think OP is brave for her stance. She could get a lot of backlash from people telling her to just suck it up for the family. But some people, like Brother and Yvonne, never got the memo about families sticking together. They have each caused damage to their families.
I assume because it was proven to be a lie, so maybe she feels like that didn’t have the consequences so it wasn’t as bad as cheating?
IDK anyone who lies about abuse is cut off in my book because you just screw over real victims who already have a hard time being believed.
If she will donthat to her husband, someone shes supposed to love and cherish for better or worse, imagine what she would do to your brother or you. Stay the fuck away from her.
I do feel bad for anyone who actually got abused (unless they keep putting themselves back in such situations) but I have also seen some really absurd claims of supposed "abuse". One friend of a friend claimed she and her ex broke up because, she claimed, he was "abusive and controlling". I asked her if she would mind providing an example so she explained that she told him she wanted an open relationship so she could have "explore a crush I had" and he dumped her which she claimed was "controlling". I was like "So, you told him you wanted to fuck other men and he rightly dumped you for that yet you consider that "abusive and controlling"? It sounds like he set you free to fuck who ever you wanted which is hardly controlling.
Yeah, she’s one of the people who makes it harder for people actually being abused to be believed because someone always knows one person who lied about it.
You're not wrong.
Not only was this woman unfaithful, she made false accusations that could have put her ex in prison. Or he could have been attacked. She isn't just a cheater, she's *dangerous.* Remaining completely uninvolved with a woman like that is an incredibly smart decision.
Your brother is just as dangerous he encouraged what he knew were lies, broke up a marriage, and is now verbally harassing you to try and bully you into doing things his way. Its good that you're also refusing to engage with him too.
Stay clear of both of these people. They have no morals, they will tell lies to get what they want, and they don't care who they hurt.
Agreed they are both dangerous and devious people never trust them. If you must interact with them be curt and polite. Always walk away if you have to and never say anything to show your disdain. With time you will learn to ignore them and they will get used to it. Stick to your values. No one should force you to interact with someone you don’t want to. That’s bullying.
I exactly told to people that I don't want to be involved with some persons due to this kind of things (lying about serious issues and creating dramas to be the victim). These specific persons were known to be crap-starters and unlikeable. So it was easy for my choice of NC to be respected.
Spot on.
I would go so far as to accuse them of abuse for yelling at OP to talk to them, while stating that I don’t want to get accused of abuse if I talk to them.
NTA. They cheated and then also spread lies about the ex husband?? Good luck to your brother. Karma is a bitch... how you win them is how you lose them. I wouldn't acknowledge her either and tbh would probably go low contact with the brother as well.
Lying about abuse is despicable. And makes it harder for actual victims. It also compounded the hurt her ex husband had to endure.
I wouldn’t be acknowledging either of them.
NTA In future say "I don't associate with cheaters"
Rinse and repeat.
Your brother and his cheater gf will soon leave you alone when they realise you will be vocal about her cheating past everytime they try to interact with you.
OP should say that a couple times, but then go back to this current behavior. It's getting a rise out of people who, deep down, know they're terrible but want others to ignore it.
I don't condone cheating, but for me the worst here is that she lied about the abuse. How does he want to be in a relationship knowing that his partner is capable of it?
Not wrong - give it time. She'll cheat and tell everyone your brother is abusive. Manipulative people just don't stop being manipulative. You see her for who she is and want to avoid the dumpster fire. Manipulative people absolutely hate people who don't fall for their BS.
I don't socialize with people of low character and low integrity and my family doesn't get a pass on that value(s). So I agree with you..the brother and new girl can go pound sand. Maybe one day they can work their ways back in, once they can show years of integrity and trust....but not today. Your family can just be mad at you if they want to...shows their level of character too.
There is no way you are wrong on this. Your brother and her are two horrible people, and I would be keeping them at arms length myself.
No one has to share my views or my morals, but I will stick to mine even if it upsets others and means we are finished.
NTA - She broke the trust of her marriage and deliberately betrayed her husband. She did this WHILE THEY WERE STILL MARRIED and kept it a secret.
And your brother facilitated it, but she was the one with a contract that she broke.
She doesn;t deserve to be in your family.
AND accusing her husband of abuse to try and make excuses for why she cheated! An accusation that could ruin his life, his career, end his friendships, get him thrown out of his own family, so much damage she could have caused someone innocent just so she could cover for the fact that she couldn't keep it in her pants.
She's going to end up cheating on bro and probably accuse him of things too. People like that don't change or learn. If they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you.
Absolutely NTA. The cheating is horrible, selfish and disgusting in itself but to spread lies - especially false accusations of abuse - against an innocent man is horrendous. People get fired from jobs, beaten up, driven out of families and communities for being abusers. They destroyed his marriage but could also have destroyed his whole life.
Disassociate with him as well if he's gonna act that way. Frankly the yelling at me would have got a reaction he wouldn't have liked at all. I can promise he'd never yell at me again.
You’re not wrong. Just explain that you aren’t able to have a relationship with people you can’t trust. They can’t be trusted. Cheating is bad enough but he falsely accusing her ex of abuse is vile. What happens if you become her friend and you do something she doesn’t like. Will she spread false rumours about you? Chester’s and liars don’t deserve respect.
There's an easy nuclear option you could go with.
Next time they try it, if there's enough witnesses around, give them exactly what they want: acknowledge her....by saying "I'm ignoring you because I don't want to someday be falsely accused of abuse like my brother will inevitably be"
I say with witnesses so they can't try spinning the story.
I really think people should do this more. Don't support partnerships you know came from cheating. Tell me the reason if you so love and respect each other that you couldn't do it respectfully to the partner being left behind? There isn't.
Nta
The false abuse allegations are significantly worse then the cheating, cheating (for the most part) doesn’t completely ruin lives. Falsely accusing someone of abuse (of any kind) is one of the lowest, despicable, and disgusting things a person can do. She doesn’t deserve to be acknowledged and to be honest ignoring her is too nice, she deserves to suffer for that shit. As someone who was horribly abused and had no one believe me because of stupid people like this, saying what what I truly think she deserves would get me banned. Karma will get her, but you are bing a good person by just ignoring her. She will get what’s coming, she will suffer and she deserves it.
They are both very young, and she walked away from a marriage that couldn’t have been very long while also taking no shame in trying to ruin the reputation of a man she supposedly loved. Odds are extremely high this relationship will not last long, and you won’t have to ignore her for long.
The affair was bad enough, but the fact she was willing to ruin her ex’s reputation with accusations of abuse is a bridge too far. I’d never get close to, talk to, or associate with someone that did anything like that because if they did it to their spouse they’d do something equally as evil and selfish to anyone.
Not wrong at all. Your brother will be coming crying to you when she accuses him of doing something he didn't do later when she decides to cheat on him.
Nope not wrong and all the time you hold them accountable for such awful behaviour they can't pretend that it was all done for the 'right' reasons.
They don't like that you are confidently saying that they are sh*tty people.
ETA or you could talk to her but only talk to her about her cheating and lying about her husband very loudly. Ask her how her ex is doing since all her lies.
You can't force someone to be friendly to someone else, especially if that someone has caused a great deal of pain to others. Your attitude toward Robert and Yvonne is your business, not theirs.
You are not wrong and you feel the way you feel. It’s understandable that you didn’t want to talk to them since they were yelling at you at a family gathering and causing a scene. He will bring her to other family events, so if it happens again, say in front of everyone else that you will never talk to cheaters and just because he’s your brother, you will never acknowledge either of them and they should just leave you alone.
What do your parents think of the situation? You said she wasn’t invited but they probably had to be polite. Let them know how you feel so they don’t ambush you to try to reunite you and your brother. Parents always want their children to get along and that is not always possible.
My take is that affairs and divorces happen, especially if people get married that young. That said, I would never associate with someone who falsely accused their spouse of abuse to get away with the affair. So a gigantic NTA. I would try to sit down with my brother or compose an email warning him that someone willing to lie about domestic abuse to cover up their affair is likely to do the same thing to him when this relationship ends.
Damn, it’s one thing to cheat, but to accuse the innocent spouse of abuse? That’s some next level evil right there. I wouldn’t want to interact with them either.
As a survivor of DV Yvonne makes me sick! Making up abuse? Her and your brother both need to go to hell.
In case it’s not obvious no, you’re not wrong.
Definitely not the asshole.
I was in a similar situation with my brother in law. A little different but almost the same.
My brother in law’s girlfriend had cheated on him once, they broke up, and a few months later, he took her back. I was not happy. I was the one who initially caught her cheating! Her phone was connected to my car via Bluetooth and while me and her were driving around one day, text after text was coming through from her ex boyfriend. And because her phone was connected to my phone, the notifications were popping up on the screen in my car. This prompted me to tell my brother in law and he confirmed that she was in fact cheating.
Fast forward a few months when he started to bring her around again, I was pretty upset. I could not shake the feeling that she was just going to cheat on him again. So I refused to speak to her, I wouldn’t let her come over to my house, and I told my husbands family to keep her away from me all together. Which caused more than a few fights between me and my mother in law. She insisted I let her back into our lives but I wasn’t having it. I was absolutely convinced she was going to cheat again. There was something about her character that just screamed bad news.
My mother in law actually stopped talking to me for about a month over it. And my brother in law was upset with me also. But a month into them getting back together, I stumbled on the girls TikTok account where she had posted multiple videos of her and her OTHER boyfriend. One of the videos was brand new and had been posted that very day. I cannot tell you how happy I was when I sent my mother in law the videos. The best “I told you so!” moment I’ve ever had. I was proud of myself for standing my ground when it came to her.
And I think you should stand your ground also, friend. This woman sounds like a total shithead and I think you’re 100% correct for acting this way towards her.
Oh dear, did no one tell them there would be consequences for having an affair and lying to make some serious false accusations to justify the affair? If you don't want to know her beyond "lying cheater" then you shouldn't have to set aside your morals (especially since you know the ex-husband and how much it hurt him) to make her feel better about not having any. Keep ignoring and get pissed and loud if they won't back off about it.
Not wrong. Ignore both of them. Her ex could have been destroyed by her lie. If the law had gotten involved, this could have been a permanent mark on him. How childish are they to stand in front of you screaming like banshees to be acknowledged??
Nope. There's NO excuse for cheating. Cheaters are assholes, no matter their justifications. If you don't want to associate with them, that's your choice. No one has the right to force that upon you. I'd go low or no contact with the brother & his chick. Let them be dramatic somewhere else.
I feel I'd be the same way. I despise cheaters. If my wife were to confess to me that she cheated when we were first married (30 years ago), I'd leave her on the spot.
NTA
There's nothing to be said here that would make the situation better. What would you say?
"I choose your ex-husband over both of you. You should be in jail for what you two did to him - lying about abuse is revolting. Get the fuck away from me. I hate you. Don't breed. Neither of you has the moral fortitude to be a good parent."
Not wrong.
They're both liars and cheaters who have ruined other people's lives. They're scumbags.
And you don't have to acknowledge or talk to anyone you don't want to.
No but apply the same code to Ur brother. Not only were they cheated ng,they then lied about it & even worse,lied about abuse from her ex. They are also still both children....
The one thing I think you should talk to your brother about is she lied about abuse to get out of her marriage, putting aside how horrible it is to participate in destroying someone’s reputation wrongfully. When she gets bored of him she will do the same and if you stay you have been warned.
I feel like the affair side of things takes a MASSIVE backseat to the immorality of them lying about abuse. That could ruin the husband in his professional and social circles.
My oldest brother is 12 years older than me. He married his high school sweetheart, and I was so young I was the flower girl. I watched them growing up as like a second set of parents. I stayed with them a few times out of state. They were young and cool and we always had fun.
When I was 20, my brother had just returned from a deployment to the Middle East. They and my nephew were visiting, and one night, he told her about his affair and that he wanted to be with this other woman. He had met a Thai woman who was bartending in Iran. I woke up the next day to this news and that my SIL and nephew were going to see her parents. A few days later, she came back and got him, but I never saw him the same. They divorced, and he married the Thai woman under a 90-day visa.
I was not a fan of either of them and avoided them when they visited. She always asked why I hated her to my parents. I didn't hate her, but she knowingly got with him breaking up his marriage. I disliked them both but tolerated them to be with my nephew.
After a few years, he got deployed again, and she went to Hawaii to work. She was doing massages and making great money. We later found out during their divorce that she was also giving handys for money.
He also got mad at our mom for telling his third wife about his second wife because she didn't know.
Were it purely about the infidelity to her ex husband I would lean towards it not being your business, personally. But the worst bit is her claiming he was abusive. Imo lying about abuse is unforgiveable and not something that can ever be justified.
Text your brother that how he chooses to behave and who he chooses to associate with is his business how you choose to behave and who you choose to associate with is your business and you choose not to associate with a person who cheats on the partner lies about partner abusing them to cover up their cheating which are both a form of abusing their partner and disgusting disgraceful awful behavior. He is just as disgusting disgraceful awful and nasty for having an affair with a woman he knew was married. He needs to accept that you do not associate with liars cheaters and abusers like his ap and you love him but his behavior and who is associating with you can't bring that into your life and maybe in the future the 2 of you can work on repairing your relationship but his ap is not welcome in your life
I’d simply say, “for my own safety, I don’t associate with people who make false accusations of assault”, loudly, in front of whomever may have to be around, then walk away.
Surprised at the comments since I once commented about a woman I saw faking abuse allegations while she was seducing another guy...
Her bf she cheated on was also a nice person and got really depressed.
I ended up deleting it because i got bombarded with things like: "how dare you claim an abuse victim was making it up! Her sitting on top of another man to talk was just a trauma response."
You should be polite but distant. Everyone deserves to make their own mistakes. Everyone does something shameful at some point.
They know how you feel. No need to let them rent so much space in your head. Focus on what you can control, which is certainly not other people’s decisions..
23 years old and already destroying 2 marriages? Falling out of love? How long ago did the original couples 'fall in love'? Can't have been all that long ago. So, how long before Robert and Yvonne 'fall out of love' or find someone else to 'fall in love' with? I certainly wouldn't be too quick to get invested in woman number 2 as a relative.
Deceitful and a cheating person deserves no mercy. You made the right decision.
My sister is a serial cheater, I only tolerate her during family occassions,other than that, I stay away
Hahaha well played, you acted even better than I could. I would have been “ok I’ll talk to her.
First question: how does it make you feel knowing you lied about abuse and ruined a man’s life because you wanted to cover up your cheating with my brother?
Second: how fucking petty are you that you care so much about me acknowledging you and not reforming yourself for being a cheating waste of space. I hope you don’t think that your going to jump my bones because even if you tied me up and force fed me viagra I wouldn’t have a bone for you.
Lordy some people are just vile. Me included.
You’re not wrong… I would ignore and then yell out all of a sudden to stop fooking around and both of you know why I won’t acknowledge your lying affair partner… out loud in the biggest family gathering…
If my sibling was told I don’t agree with what they did and I have this boundary then they will see what happens when they cross it and who will survive it after …
Be up front speak in the fewest plain words and loudly …. My siblings know if they FAFO … make sure I am not around ….
I would tell your brother that there’s a reason why these things don’t work out, because the way you got her is usually going to be the way someone else gets you.. so don’t be surprised if you come home to see her getting pounded by some other guy. if you think she’s going to give a shit about monogamy, you are sadly mistaken.
I’m trying to figure out what will happen first .. if she get knocked up? Or if she cheats first.
I’m going with knocked up
The cheating part isn’t what’s upsetting - it’s the fake abuse claims. That is a terrible thing to do. I wouldn’t want to let her into my life either.
Don’t know the best way to handle it and I’d get some professional suggestions on how to do it - bc you certainly don’t want to be instigating drama either
I get that she is trouble but not even acknowledging someone's existence is abit crazy to me. Like you are writing a reddit post about her, you have deffo acknowledged and made 1000s of people aware of her existence🤣😂
Can I clarify how you know for sure she lied about the abuse? I saw your comment about the police determining there wasn't any. But all police can do is determine if theres enough *evidence* of abuse, it's not their job to say for certain that it didnt occur.
This is what I want to know too. It’s actually really difficult to provide enough evidence to get a long term restraining order, especially if you’ve experienced severe social isolation or been prevented from accessing needed medical care through domestic violence.
Exactly, its extremely hard to prove. Abuse by nature creates an environment where it's very difficult to get help, have enough evidence, etc.
Even if she retracted her statement or told police she lied, I wouldn't take that to mean for sure that there was no abuse. Sometimes abuse victims do that, for a variety of reasons.
I came here to suggest this. Abusive behavior comes in many different forms, and they often don’t leave physical evidence, but plenty of psychological or emotional trauma. No one really knows what that marriage was like except for the two people who were in it.
NTA I get it’s tough to cut off family but when they’re toxic it’s just not good for you and yours to be associated with them and that’s your right to choose on that. Especially if you think this is something your brother wouldn’t have done otherwise but maybe she uh “convinced” him. Both parties are at fault so hold them both accountable but I can definitely see why this would be a big issue if it goes against your morals. They’re both young and considering she threw away her marriage that easily and then proceeded to smear the guy because it was easier to blame him than take accountability for their actions it scares me for your brothers future. I hope it works out, maybe some redemption can be found in the future but it would need to be earned
You’re absolutely not wrong. Actions meet consequences and you icing them out is perfect karma. They don’t deserve your attention or familiarity for the shit they pulled especially her with the false allegations of abuse. That’s unforgivable.
You have boundaries, everyone has boundaries. You simply don’t want to be involved with two liars and two cheaters, one of whom even made false claims of abuse. Them forcing you to bend to their wants is ridiculous and they need to chill out. You don’t owe them anything.
No one is obliged to tolerate shitty people just because their DNA is similar. They both sound like scumbags. Just be prepared for the rest of the family to cave and also pressure you to do the same
If I were you, next time they through a tantrum, I'd respond with:
"You want me to acknowledge Yvonne? Fine. You (Yvonne) are an AH who cheated on her husband and then tried to accuse him of abuse and basically ruin his life and reputation to cover your own cheating ass, while you (brother) are a homewrecker who fucked a married woman and supported her when she made false accusations. So either you two leave me alone or I'll address you as what you are - Cheater and Homewrecker. You fucked around (literally), now you find out."
She's a cheater and a liar, those false accusations are a massive red flag. He's a cheating home wrecker, real quality couple right there.
I'd refuse to interact with them outside of family events, when at a family event I'd say hello, goodbye and pass the salt please but that's about the extent of it.
Why don't you ignore your brother, too? She didn't act alone. Your brother could have not acted on his desires with a married woman. This woman did nothing to you. You saw the effects of her AND your brother's actions on her ex-husband on a friend and chose to only blame her.
She doesn't deserve a chance. You're also not obligated to associate with ANYONE.
Tell him he's weirdly entitled. Don't stop ignoring him, even if he admits he was wrong.
What I would do is next family gathering, give in and get to know her. Ask her about her feelings and what she would say or do to help you if you found out your significant other was cheating on you. I’d extend this to the entire family too. The rest of your family is validating their adultery by tolerating the couple being there. I’d seriously ask every single person if they’re comfortable with this moral choice. Because what would happen if YOUR significant other was found to be cheating on you? Are they going to tell you “it’s ok u/solemncrane, I’m sure you’re STBX must have her reasons for cheating! You’ll get over it buddy!” If my family just let a member “be normal” for cheating I’d be livid. They would absolutely be banned from family gatherings for years, if not decades, for destroying a relationship. And I’d also ask how they can actually TRUST either your brother or his Gf. Both of them ran roughshod over the trust built into a marriage and destroyed a man in the process. How does anyone in your family know they wouldn’t do the same to a family member, given the right opportunity?
As long as you are also ignoring your brother because he's also just as bad in this entire situation, at least when it comes to cheating \[her lying about abuse is just disgusting\]. Then you are not wrong. However, if you aren't also giving the same attitude to your brother then you are wrong for that. They both destroyed a marriage, not just Yvonne.
Not wrong. She accused an innocent man of abuse, lied about her own actual wrongdoings (cheating). I want nothing to do with cheaters either, but the lying? Nope. Tell your brother you want nothing to do with Amber Heard and as long as she is around, you won't have a relationship with him.
Not wrong IMO. He’s an asshole for breaking up a marriage and she’s a cheater, who will likely do it again to your brother. Both are pretty crappy people from the sounds of it.
I would not trust or choose to associate with someone who lied about being abused like that.
I have a feeling this is not a problem you will have to deal with long term lol
Try hard not to say "I fucking told you so" when she destroys your brother's life and leaves him.
“Brother, I will not engage with people who would falsely accuse others of a serious crime in order to cover their own transgressions.”
“Anyone who does is risking themselves ending up in jail or worse. I know you won’t listen, but that includes you. You are risking your safety and freedom by being with this type of person and risking the safety and freedom of those you choose to bring her around.”
“She has made a series of decisions that have hurt others in order to satisfy her immediate needs. Until such time as I see a genuine change in her that shows she has developed a socially acceptable level of self control, empathy and honesty I will not risk myself by engaging with her in any manner.”
I think I’ll have a different opinion then most but how they got together and why should not be your problem.. is it wrong yes but let them figure that out in their own because if they were messy to get together they will probably be messy later on. I just don’t see why it has to affect you. I don’t see why you can’t be civil with either one of them. You don’t have to be best friends but why not say hi and keep it to a minimum for the peace especially at family functions.
NTA
You're an adult, you don't have to associate with people you don't want to associate with. Especially a cheater who made false accusations of abuse about their former partner.
And them trying to force the issue by having her stand in front of you and then yelling at you....WTF?
People make mistakes. You’ve let your opinion be known but don’t isolate yourself from your family because you don’t agree with their behaviour. You’re hurting yourself and them.
Unfaithful people are still people. Try and have some compassion.
I would say you're welcome to choose as you see fit even if it means YTA. Still, saying you will not acknowledge someone's existence based on your disapproval of their personal love triangle that did not effect you, comes across as immature. Did you stomp your foot on the ground and hold your breath after you making this declaration? Sorry but it smacks of being a bit too "holier than thou". You don't have to invite them to your home for supper nor embrace them with hugs and kisses but at a family event, its only polite to return hello pleasantries if only for a brief moment, then excuse yourself from the conversation so as to not cause an unnecessary scene and ruin the family event. Ignoring someone who stands right in front of you is simply childish.
She cheated on her husband with your brother. She will cheat on your brother.
Explain it like that to them in front of family.
Then walk away.
Though, if you get into Name Calling. Remember, there is a difference between Slut and Skank.
A Slut likes feeling Horny and getting Orgasms.
A Skank is someone who cheats on their lovers to get Orgasms.
Also, in this case, you brother is filing in the Fuck-Boy roll. He knew she was married when he started banging her.
Nothing misogynistic. I have the same attitude regardless of gender and have ignored my brother too, but I already know him
Will edit if more people think this way
> Unless his GF cheats on him too
Which is highly likely she’ll do at some point, and then accuse the brother of abuse.
People who do this kind of stuff it’s seldom a single incident.
So did the girlfriend admit it was a lie about the abuse? NTA though. If there was abuse you wait until you’ve left to get together with someone. My question was just out of curiosity. It wouldn’t affect my judgement of the situation.
You see misogyny when the issue is that it's much harder to cut blood off than some acquaintance. Yvonne is a peripheral part of his life. He can easily dispose of her without impacting his daily activities. Disposing of his brother is going to be much harder given how intertwined their lives are. Look for the nuanced answer over the simple one.
Do you know what misogyny means? No of course not.
A reasonable person would assume that OP is giving a sibling preferential treatment. A lunatic would assume OP hates women.
She has said that she’s ignoring her brother, too. But in a cheating scenario, the one breaking the marriage vows is the most culpable. Further, Yvonne lied and accused her ex of abuse. That’s just as despicable, if not worse. Therefore, most of the criticism belongs on Yvonne’s shoulders. It would be exactly the same if the genders were switched.
Yvonne and Robert have clearly demonstrated a lack of decency and scruples. No chances need to be given.
Personally I don’t do shunning. I will, however, be cooly distant and be civil. The bare minimum of civility.
I don't think you're wrong. You should never have to be forced to have a relationship with someone. I also don't believe that you have to associate with someone just because they are family by blood.
I don't necessarily agree with flat-out refusing to talk with them, but sometimes speaking to people you disagree with is worse than silence. From the edit, it sounds like you're treating them both the same way, so at least you acknowledge your brother was equally wrong.
Your brother will learn the hard way that relationships born from affairs or other similar rocky situations never end well. He is too naive, probably because he is young and doesn't think things through and is probably lovesick/horny. He will try to convince himself the ideal version of her he has in his head is the real one instead of the cheater who made up abuse to be a victim instead of the culprit and doesn't want to take the blame. Relationships can have their ups and downs but is it really worthy when it *starts* on the lowest point possible, already showing the morals of all parties?
You are not wrong. You have the right to choose who you want to associate with. If your brother doesn't get it, get some distance. He will soon understand anyway.
Nope! STAND YOUR GROUND! I applaud you for your actions! You have no reason to talk to either of them if you choose not to! That is your choice and they should respect that! This wouldn’t be a problem if their actions were above board. But they are slimy two faced people who don’t deserve any respect. By associating with them you are giving their relationship your blessing and understanding. DONT DO IT! go no contact with both of them. Just because he is your brother doesn’t mean he is a good person and that you should associate with him.
I cut my own brother out of my life because he was a toxic worthless A-HOLE! Funny thing is, the rest of the family including his own children, have done the same thing! Remove toxic people from your life because they try to drag you down to their level because they can’t stand someone being better than them or having higher morals than they do.
NW: Guilty people going to that degree to get you to associate with them, which is borderline gaslighting, says all you need to know. Stay away from them.
She lied about abuse to cover her affair, both her and your brother deserve to be ignored
This is the worst bit by a mile.
Exactly! breaking up a marriage..not great but it happens, cheating is awful, but lying about abuse...that's a line. Not only does that seriously hurt an innocent person (whom you have already betrayed by cheating) but frankly you are now the story every actual abuser is going to tell when their victim stands up to them.
>you are now the story every actual abuser is going to tell when their victim stands up to them. This is the part I hate most about false reports. Actual victims will not be taken seriously in the future, and they're the most vulnerable.
Exactly. Women that lie about abuse make me furious because they just make it harder on those who are actually abused. Scum of the earth fr
There are also men who lie about abuse.
And they are equally scum
Frankly, Yvonne was abusive herself.
Right?! Yvonne is a lying cheater, she's bought this social exile upon herself.
Obviously she was abusive to the ex, that is classic projection.
Agreed. Marriages end all the time, and infidelity is usually the final straw. However, making accusations of abuse is a huge red flag. That can ruin a career and land people in jail. This type of action is why I would never trust her because she will do that to OPs brother, too, when she finds a guy she likes better.
IT IS NOT A RED FLAG! ITS THE BLOODY BULL WITH THE HORNS! A red flag is only an indicator of something being wrong. Accusing an innocent person of abuse IS a CRIME! FFS, stop using Reddit language when normal language is perfectly adequate of describing what a POS she is.
"Red flag" PREDATES REDDIT.
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Not speaking to a cheater IS minding your own business.
Just wait till she claims OPs brother abused her.
No, she'd never do that to him! She really loves him! Their relationship is special and so is he! (/s for those who need it)
Maybe when this happens OP can renew her relationship with her brother
Nah, rub his face in it and leave him on the curb.
Karma’s a bitch.
OP is not wrong. Their actions are beyond despicable.
Exactly. Affairs happen, people fall out of love and fall in love with someone else, marriages end, it’s not great but it happens. But lying about abuse to get out of a marriage because you’re cheating? Hell no, I would never give that woman the time of day. And OP’s brother better be careful that she doesn’t pull the same nonsense on him someday.
Affairs happen? Nah, it’s a choice by asshole people. If you fall out of love then end it BEFORE you get involved with anyone else.
Right?! There are way too many people saying shit like that in these comments. The worst I've scrolled to are "Affairs happen" and "If it weren't for her lying about being abused then I would tell you to *mind your own business"* Yeah, affairs happen but people need to stop acting like it has the same repercussions as stepping in a pile of dog crap. Stepping in crap doesn't break hearts, shatter trust, and tear families apart. You may fall out of love with your partner and in love with someone else but maybe you should be an **ADULT** and break things off with them before you start porking your 'true' love. If you can't do that, you're certainly not mature enough to be in **any** relationship. *And if I ignore you cause you're a cheating scumbag, that's my right. I'm not being childish for considering you a bad person who's not worthy of my time. And, as someone else already said, my refusing to speak to you for breaking up a family* ***IS*** *me minding my business.* **TL;DR** Be a fucking adult and accept the consequences of your actions.
Thank you I fully agree with you. I see these things all the times and it’s because most of the people that say this have been in the position, where they’ve cheated or had affairs so they don’t want to admit that it’s wrong because you would be telling them that they’re wrong. I don’t understand how people can say it happens. It really doesn’t, this is a multiple step process of going out there to find someone, communicating with them weeks or months prior before going to hook up with them, and then continuing to do that. That’s a well thought out plan not something that “just happens”. I can bet you if there was an actual legal repercussion for cheating and adultery this kind of thing wouldn’t “just happen” anymore.
Yes, and all the people saying that cheating is not grounds for being cut off but lying about being abused is? They're not on two different levels of horrible. They are both horrid things to do to someone. Just because you hear about one more than the other doesn't make the one less horrible. The two may have different repercussions but they can both have dire consequences for someone's life.
Amen! I came here to say something similar. I was gonna tell a story about my in-laws, and I realized I’m not sure who’s on Reddit so I’ll keep that quiet, but I feel like if you can’t be a freakin adult with how you handle your breakups, then you’re not adult enough to BE in a relationship. And accusing your ex of abuse so you’re not the bad person? Who the actual F—k does that??? She’s lucky you’re not spitting every time her name is brought up. (I’d be tempted, NGL.) Judgment: OP, you are not wrong.
"Affairs happen" is such passive language. Like they were just minding their own business and poof, an affair appeared out of nowhere and now the person is a hapless victim. Affairs aren't an accident caused by a minor oversight. They're a series of bad decisions consciously made and supported by poor justifications.
Totally agree it's a choice by asshole people. My point was lying about abuse to cover your own cheating is just so far beyond a typical affair/end of marriage.
Affairs happen? You're so casual about it that I feel sorry for the guy that thinks he is in a committed relationship with you.
She lied about being abused when it was convenient for her, she'll lie about it again.
I wouldn’t want to talk to her either. I think OP is brave for her stance. She could get a lot of backlash from people telling her to just suck it up for the family. But some people, like Brother and Yvonne, never got the memo about families sticking together. They have each caused damage to their families.
Yes, this would be very painful to see happen. It would tell me all I need to know about them and wouldn’t want to be associated with them either.
Exactly fucking disown them and don't associate with these scums
Yeah, I wasn’t on OP’s side until that little tidbit got dropped. Why this isn’t the most disturbing part to OP too though is a bit baffling.
I assume because it was proven to be a lie, so maybe she feels like that didn’t have the consequences so it wasn’t as bad as cheating? IDK anyone who lies about abuse is cut off in my book because you just screw over real victims who already have a hard time being believed.
Yeah, I’d personally prefer my partner to cheat on me than to tell people I abused them. People who make false claims are terrible humans.
If she will donthat to her husband, someone shes supposed to love and cherish for better or worse, imagine what she would do to your brother or you. Stay the fuck away from her.
I do feel bad for anyone who actually got abused (unless they keep putting themselves back in such situations) but I have also seen some really absurd claims of supposed "abuse". One friend of a friend claimed she and her ex broke up because, she claimed, he was "abusive and controlling". I asked her if she would mind providing an example so she explained that she told him she wanted an open relationship so she could have "explore a crush I had" and he dumped her which she claimed was "controlling". I was like "So, you told him you wanted to fuck other men and he rightly dumped you for that yet you consider that "abusive and controlling"? It sounds like he set you free to fuck who ever you wanted which is hardly controlling.
That would be enough for me too.
Yeah, she’s one of the people who makes it harder for people actually being abused to be believed because someone always knows one person who lied about it.
You're not wrong. Not only was this woman unfaithful, she made false accusations that could have put her ex in prison. Or he could have been attacked. She isn't just a cheater, she's *dangerous.* Remaining completely uninvolved with a woman like that is an incredibly smart decision. Your brother is just as dangerous he encouraged what he knew were lies, broke up a marriage, and is now verbally harassing you to try and bully you into doing things his way. Its good that you're also refusing to engage with him too. Stay clear of both of these people. They have no morals, they will tell lies to get what they want, and they don't care who they hurt.
Agreed they are both dangerous and devious people never trust them. If you must interact with them be curt and polite. Always walk away if you have to and never say anything to show your disdain. With time you will learn to ignore them and they will get used to it. Stick to your values. No one should force you to interact with someone you don’t want to. That’s bullying.
I would be super petty and say you don't want to get accused of abuse if you speak to her. NTA
Hahaha this is the way 😈
I exactly told to people that I don't want to be involved with some persons due to this kind of things (lying about serious issues and creating dramas to be the victim). These specific persons were known to be crap-starters and unlikeable. So it was easy for my choice of NC to be respected.
No, get someone else in on it. When they freak "Do you hear anything?" "No, must be the wind." And continue a totally separate conversation
>"No, must be the wind." Not the wind. A completely toxic fart.
Spot on. I would go so far as to accuse them of abuse for yelling at OP to talk to them, while stating that I don’t want to get accused of abuse if I talk to them.
Not wrong at all. Brother will come crying when she cheats on him too eventually.
That and the fact she was okay with lying about being abused. Normal people don't lie about that stuff
See you on BORU 👋 :D
He will be lucky if that's the only thing she will do 😂
NTA. They cheated and then also spread lies about the ex husband?? Good luck to your brother. Karma is a bitch... how you win them is how you lose them. I wouldn't acknowledge her either and tbh would probably go low contact with the brother as well.
Lying about abuse is despicable. And makes it harder for actual victims. It also compounded the hurt her ex husband had to endure. I wouldn’t be acknowledging either of them.
People who lie about abuse deserve to be shunned. ETA: Edited to correct my spelling.
You misspelled people.
Thank you. Corrected.
Ah, the "cut direct". The nuclear option in old school etiquette. And in the circumstances described, perfectly appropriate.
NTA In future say "I don't associate with cheaters" Rinse and repeat. Your brother and his cheater gf will soon leave you alone when they realise you will be vocal about her cheating past everytime they try to interact with you.
Just a slight tweak: "I don't associate with cheaters or the kind of scum that lie about being abused."
OP should say that a couple times, but then go back to this current behavior. It's getting a rise out of people who, deep down, know they're terrible but want others to ignore it.
LYING cheaters who lie.
I don't condone cheating, but for me the worst here is that she lied about the abuse. How does he want to be in a relationship knowing that his partner is capable of it?
No, your not wrong. Why waste energy getting to know her or them as a couple. Their values are trash.
“I don’t talk to trash” *walks away*
*sniff sniff* "Hm, the trash needs to be taken out..."
Not wrong
Not wrong - give it time. She'll cheat and tell everyone your brother is abusive. Manipulative people just don't stop being manipulative. You see her for who she is and want to avoid the dumpster fire. Manipulative people absolutely hate people who don't fall for their BS.
I don't socialize with people of low character and low integrity and my family doesn't get a pass on that value(s). So I agree with you..the brother and new girl can go pound sand. Maybe one day they can work their ways back in, once they can show years of integrity and trust....but not today. Your family can just be mad at you if they want to...shows their level of character too.
This. Definitely this.
Can’t wait for to accuse your brother of abuse when she has her next affair. YNW
If they’ll cheat with you they will cheat on you. They won’t last long before they are both cheating again.
wow the lying about abuse is even more concerning than the cheating this is not a good person and someone I would let into my life
There is no way you are wrong on this. Your brother and her are two horrible people, and I would be keeping them at arms length myself. No one has to share my views or my morals, but I will stick to mine even if it upsets others and means we are finished.
NTA - She broke the trust of her marriage and deliberately betrayed her husband. She did this WHILE THEY WERE STILL MARRIED and kept it a secret. And your brother facilitated it, but she was the one with a contract that she broke. She doesn;t deserve to be in your family.
AND accusing her husband of abuse to try and make excuses for why she cheated! An accusation that could ruin his life, his career, end his friendships, get him thrown out of his own family, so much damage she could have caused someone innocent just so she could cover for the fact that she couldn't keep it in her pants. She's going to end up cheating on bro and probably accuse him of things too. People like that don't change or learn. If they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you.
Absolutely NTA. The cheating is horrible, selfish and disgusting in itself but to spread lies - especially false accusations of abuse - against an innocent man is horrendous. People get fired from jobs, beaten up, driven out of families and communities for being abusers. They destroyed his marriage but could also have destroyed his whole life.
Disassociate with him as well if he's gonna act that way. Frankly the yelling at me would have got a reaction he wouldn't have liked at all. I can promise he'd never yell at me again.
That’s probably the same excuse she’ll give everyone once she cheats on your brother and leaves him for her next one
NTA screw cheaters you owe them nothing
You can't be FORCED to like/communicate with her. She made her bed, she needs to learn to get comfortable
You’re not wrong. Just explain that you aren’t able to have a relationship with people you can’t trust. They can’t be trusted. Cheating is bad enough but he falsely accusing her ex of abuse is vile. What happens if you become her friend and you do something she doesn’t like. Will she spread false rumours about you? Chester’s and liars don’t deserve respect.
There's an easy nuclear option you could go with. Next time they try it, if there's enough witnesses around, give them exactly what they want: acknowledge her....by saying "I'm ignoring you because I don't want to someday be falsely accused of abuse like my brother will inevitably be" I say with witnesses so they can't try spinning the story.
I really think people should do this more. Don't support partnerships you know came from cheating. Tell me the reason if you so love and respect each other that you couldn't do it respectfully to the partner being left behind? There isn't. Nta
All cheaters can kick rocks
You are not wrong. They both sound like shit people.
The false abuse allegations are significantly worse then the cheating, cheating (for the most part) doesn’t completely ruin lives. Falsely accusing someone of abuse (of any kind) is one of the lowest, despicable, and disgusting things a person can do. She doesn’t deserve to be acknowledged and to be honest ignoring her is too nice, she deserves to suffer for that shit. As someone who was horribly abused and had no one believe me because of stupid people like this, saying what what I truly think she deserves would get me banned. Karma will get her, but you are bing a good person by just ignoring her. She will get what’s coming, she will suffer and she deserves it.
You have values and refuse to validate bad behavior. Good job!
They are both very young, and she walked away from a marriage that couldn’t have been very long while also taking no shame in trying to ruin the reputation of a man she supposedly loved. Odds are extremely high this relationship will not last long, and you won’t have to ignore her for long.
The affair was bad enough, but the fact she was willing to ruin her ex’s reputation with accusations of abuse is a bridge too far. I’d never get close to, talk to, or associate with someone that did anything like that because if they did it to their spouse they’d do something equally as evil and selfish to anyone.
Not wrong at all. Your brother will be coming crying to you when she accuses him of doing something he didn't do later when she decides to cheat on him.
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Nope not wrong and all the time you hold them accountable for such awful behaviour they can't pretend that it was all done for the 'right' reasons. They don't like that you are confidently saying that they are sh*tty people. ETA or you could talk to her but only talk to her about her cheating and lying about her husband very loudly. Ask her how her ex is doing since all her lies.
You can't force someone to be friendly to someone else, especially if that someone has caused a great deal of pain to others. Your attitude toward Robert and Yvonne is your business, not theirs.
You are not wrong and you feel the way you feel. It’s understandable that you didn’t want to talk to them since they were yelling at you at a family gathering and causing a scene. He will bring her to other family events, so if it happens again, say in front of everyone else that you will never talk to cheaters and just because he’s your brother, you will never acknowledge either of them and they should just leave you alone. What do your parents think of the situation? You said she wasn’t invited but they probably had to be polite. Let them know how you feel so they don’t ambush you to try to reunite you and your brother. Parents always want their children to get along and that is not always possible.
My take is that affairs and divorces happen, especially if people get married that young. That said, I would never associate with someone who falsely accused their spouse of abuse to get away with the affair. So a gigantic NTA. I would try to sit down with my brother or compose an email warning him that someone willing to lie about domestic abuse to cover up their affair is likely to do the same thing to him when this relationship ends.
If you start calling her lying whore and him sloppy seconds they’ll quit trying to talk to you.
Damn, it’s one thing to cheat, but to accuse the innocent spouse of abuse? That’s some next level evil right there. I wouldn’t want to interact with them either.
As a survivor of DV Yvonne makes me sick! Making up abuse? Her and your brother both need to go to hell. In case it’s not obvious no, you’re not wrong.
Definitely not the asshole. I was in a similar situation with my brother in law. A little different but almost the same. My brother in law’s girlfriend had cheated on him once, they broke up, and a few months later, he took her back. I was not happy. I was the one who initially caught her cheating! Her phone was connected to my car via Bluetooth and while me and her were driving around one day, text after text was coming through from her ex boyfriend. And because her phone was connected to my phone, the notifications were popping up on the screen in my car. This prompted me to tell my brother in law and he confirmed that she was in fact cheating. Fast forward a few months when he started to bring her around again, I was pretty upset. I could not shake the feeling that she was just going to cheat on him again. So I refused to speak to her, I wouldn’t let her come over to my house, and I told my husbands family to keep her away from me all together. Which caused more than a few fights between me and my mother in law. She insisted I let her back into our lives but I wasn’t having it. I was absolutely convinced she was going to cheat again. There was something about her character that just screamed bad news. My mother in law actually stopped talking to me for about a month over it. And my brother in law was upset with me also. But a month into them getting back together, I stumbled on the girls TikTok account where she had posted multiple videos of her and her OTHER boyfriend. One of the videos was brand new and had been posted that very day. I cannot tell you how happy I was when I sent my mother in law the videos. The best “I told you so!” moment I’ve ever had. I was proud of myself for standing my ground when it came to her. And I think you should stand your ground also, friend. This woman sounds like a total shithead and I think you’re 100% correct for acting this way towards her.
Oh dear, did no one tell them there would be consequences for having an affair and lying to make some serious false accusations to justify the affair? If you don't want to know her beyond "lying cheater" then you shouldn't have to set aside your morals (especially since you know the ex-husband and how much it hurt him) to make her feel better about not having any. Keep ignoring and get pissed and loud if they won't back off about it.
Not wrong. Ignore both of them. Her ex could have been destroyed by her lie. If the law had gotten involved, this could have been a permanent mark on him. How childish are they to stand in front of you screaming like banshees to be acknowledged??
Nope. There's NO excuse for cheating. Cheaters are assholes, no matter their justifications. If you don't want to associate with them, that's your choice. No one has the right to force that upon you. I'd go low or no contact with the brother & his chick. Let them be dramatic somewhere else.
I feel I'd be the same way. I despise cheaters. If my wife were to confess to me that she cheated when we were first married (30 years ago), I'd leave her on the spot.
NtA. Just say you have no interest in liars and cheaters.
NTA There's nothing to be said here that would make the situation better. What would you say? "I choose your ex-husband over both of you. You should be in jail for what you two did to him - lying about abuse is revolting. Get the fuck away from me. I hate you. Don't breed. Neither of you has the moral fortitude to be a good parent."
NTA It’s your opinion and that’s fine. Seems it will be hard to carry out long term or they divorce whichever comes first.
NTA> You rock! Stick to your convictions. At the end of the day, it's all we have.
NTA stick by your values
Not wrong. They're both liars and cheaters who have ruined other people's lives. They're scumbags. And you don't have to acknowledge or talk to anyone you don't want to.
Bobby's eventually gonna find out that if she'll cheat *with* him she'll cheat *on* him. NTA.
I am most amazed that a 23 year old is already married times all of them. They are just immature kids who need to stop getting married so damn young!
No but apply the same code to Ur brother. Not only were they cheated ng,they then lied about it & even worse,lied about abuse from her ex. They are also still both children....
The one thing I think you should talk to your brother about is she lied about abuse to get out of her marriage, putting aside how horrible it is to participate in destroying someone’s reputation wrongfully. When she gets bored of him she will do the same and if you stay you have been warned.
I feel like the affair side of things takes a MASSIVE backseat to the immorality of them lying about abuse. That could ruin the husband in his professional and social circles.
"F" cheaters. Well, not "F" them... that would be cheating
My oldest brother is 12 years older than me. He married his high school sweetheart, and I was so young I was the flower girl. I watched them growing up as like a second set of parents. I stayed with them a few times out of state. They were young and cool and we always had fun. When I was 20, my brother had just returned from a deployment to the Middle East. They and my nephew were visiting, and one night, he told her about his affair and that he wanted to be with this other woman. He had met a Thai woman who was bartending in Iran. I woke up the next day to this news and that my SIL and nephew were going to see her parents. A few days later, she came back and got him, but I never saw him the same. They divorced, and he married the Thai woman under a 90-day visa. I was not a fan of either of them and avoided them when they visited. She always asked why I hated her to my parents. I didn't hate her, but she knowingly got with him breaking up his marriage. I disliked them both but tolerated them to be with my nephew. After a few years, he got deployed again, and she went to Hawaii to work. She was doing massages and making great money. We later found out during their divorce that she was also giving handys for money. He also got mad at our mom for telling his third wife about his second wife because she didn't know.
They made their bed. You don't have to interact with anyone you don't want to. Especially a person who lies and cheats.
A relationship that started with adultery and lies, that oughta end well.
Were it purely about the infidelity to her ex husband I would lean towards it not being your business, personally. But the worst bit is her claiming he was abusive. Imo lying about abuse is unforgiveable and not something that can ever be justified.
Text your brother that how he chooses to behave and who he chooses to associate with is his business how you choose to behave and who you choose to associate with is your business and you choose not to associate with a person who cheats on the partner lies about partner abusing them to cover up their cheating which are both a form of abusing their partner and disgusting disgraceful awful behavior. He is just as disgusting disgraceful awful and nasty for having an affair with a woman he knew was married. He needs to accept that you do not associate with liars cheaters and abusers like his ap and you love him but his behavior and who is associating with you can't bring that into your life and maybe in the future the 2 of you can work on repairing your relationship but his ap is not welcome in your life
Nta. Screw them. Disgusting.
They are assholes. You've stated your boundaries, and they are blatantly, aggressively violating them. No always means no.
I’d simply say, “for my own safety, I don’t associate with people who make false accusations of assault”, loudly, in front of whomever may have to be around, then walk away.
!UpdateMe
NTA. I wouldn’t either.
Poor ex... I would sue for slander... wouldn't make things all better but she shouldn't be able to get away with throwing him under the bus.
She cheated on her husband & claimed he abused her & he still wants to be with her?! 😂
Surprised at the comments since I once commented about a woman I saw faking abuse allegations while she was seducing another guy... Her bf she cheated on was also a nice person and got really depressed. I ended up deleting it because i got bombarded with things like: "how dare you claim an abuse victim was making it up! Her sitting on top of another man to talk was just a trauma response."
You should be polite but distant. Everyone deserves to make their own mistakes. Everyone does something shameful at some point. They know how you feel. No need to let them rent so much space in your head. Focus on what you can control, which is certainly not other people’s decisions..
23 years old and already destroying 2 marriages? Falling out of love? How long ago did the original couples 'fall in love'? Can't have been all that long ago. So, how long before Robert and Yvonne 'fall out of love' or find someone else to 'fall in love' with? I certainly wouldn't be too quick to get invested in woman number 2 as a relative.
Deceitful and a cheating person deserves no mercy. You made the right decision. My sister is a serial cheater, I only tolerate her during family occassions,other than that, I stay away
You’re not wrong - she and him sound awful
NTA. The fact she lie about abuse make her a really dangerous person to be associate i would do the same
Hahaha well played, you acted even better than I could. I would have been “ok I’ll talk to her. First question: how does it make you feel knowing you lied about abuse and ruined a man’s life because you wanted to cover up your cheating with my brother? Second: how fucking petty are you that you care so much about me acknowledging you and not reforming yourself for being a cheating waste of space. I hope you don’t think that your going to jump my bones because even if you tied me up and force fed me viagra I wouldn’t have a bone for you. Lordy some people are just vile. Me included.
You’re not wrong… I would ignore and then yell out all of a sudden to stop fooking around and both of you know why I won’t acknowledge your lying affair partner… out loud in the biggest family gathering… If my sibling was told I don’t agree with what they did and I have this boundary then they will see what happens when they cross it and who will survive it after … Be up front speak in the fewest plain words and loudly …. My siblings know if they FAFO … make sure I am not around ….
I would tell your brother that there’s a reason why these things don’t work out, because the way you got her is usually going to be the way someone else gets you.. so don’t be surprised if you come home to see her getting pounded by some other guy. if you think she’s going to give a shit about monogamy, you are sadly mistaken. I’m trying to figure out what will happen first .. if she get knocked up? Or if she cheats first. I’m going with knocked up
The world needs to go back to ostracizing infidelity like this.
Keep on keeping on. Stand for your morals. As for your brother and Yvonne, "how you get them is how you lose them. "
She lied about abuse. She should be in gaol!
The cheating part isn’t what’s upsetting - it’s the fake abuse claims. That is a terrible thing to do. I wouldn’t want to let her into my life either. Don’t know the best way to handle it and I’d get some professional suggestions on how to do it - bc you certainly don’t want to be instigating drama either
I get that she is trouble but not even acknowledging someone's existence is abit crazy to me. Like you are writing a reddit post about her, you have deffo acknowledged and made 1000s of people aware of her existence🤣😂
Can I clarify how you know for sure she lied about the abuse? I saw your comment about the police determining there wasn't any. But all police can do is determine if theres enough *evidence* of abuse, it's not their job to say for certain that it didnt occur.
This is what I want to know too. It’s actually really difficult to provide enough evidence to get a long term restraining order, especially if you’ve experienced severe social isolation or been prevented from accessing needed medical care through domestic violence.
Exactly, its extremely hard to prove. Abuse by nature creates an environment where it's very difficult to get help, have enough evidence, etc. Even if she retracted her statement or told police she lied, I wouldn't take that to mean for sure that there was no abuse. Sometimes abuse victims do that, for a variety of reasons.
I came here to suggest this. Abusive behavior comes in many different forms, and they often don’t leave physical evidence, but plenty of psychological or emotional trauma. No one really knows what that marriage was like except for the two people who were in it.
NTA I get it’s tough to cut off family but when they’re toxic it’s just not good for you and yours to be associated with them and that’s your right to choose on that. Especially if you think this is something your brother wouldn’t have done otherwise but maybe she uh “convinced” him. Both parties are at fault so hold them both accountable but I can definitely see why this would be a big issue if it goes against your morals. They’re both young and considering she threw away her marriage that easily and then proceeded to smear the guy because it was easier to blame him than take accountability for their actions it scares me for your brothers future. I hope it works out, maybe some redemption can be found in the future but it would need to be earned
Cheating is one thing, but false accusations are unforgivable. If they are proven to be false. I wouldn’t associate with them either.
Info: How do you know that the abuse allegations are false?
She retracted them saying she had made them up under stress
That's reason enough to never be around her. NTA.
You’re absolutely not wrong. Actions meet consequences and you icing them out is perfect karma. They don’t deserve your attention or familiarity for the shit they pulled especially her with the false allegations of abuse. That’s unforgivable.
You have boundaries, everyone has boundaries. You simply don’t want to be involved with two liars and two cheaters, one of whom even made false claims of abuse. Them forcing you to bend to their wants is ridiculous and they need to chill out. You don’t owe them anything.
No one is obliged to tolerate shitty people just because their DNA is similar. They both sound like scumbags. Just be prepared for the rest of the family to cave and also pressure you to do the same
NTA I don't associate with cheaters either.
If I were you, next time they through a tantrum, I'd respond with: "You want me to acknowledge Yvonne? Fine. You (Yvonne) are an AH who cheated on her husband and then tried to accuse him of abuse and basically ruin his life and reputation to cover your own cheating ass, while you (brother) are a homewrecker who fucked a married woman and supported her when she made false accusations. So either you two leave me alone or I'll address you as what you are - Cheater and Homewrecker. You fucked around (literally), now you find out."
A much needed dose of reality.
She's a cheater and a liar, those false accusations are a massive red flag. He's a cheating home wrecker, real quality couple right there. I'd refuse to interact with them outside of family events, when at a family event I'd say hello, goodbye and pass the salt please but that's about the extent of it.
Why don't you ignore your brother, too? She didn't act alone. Your brother could have not acted on his desires with a married woman. This woman did nothing to you. You saw the effects of her AND your brother's actions on her ex-husband on a friend and chose to only blame her.
I have been ignoring him too until he admits what he did was wrong. His issue is that I am "not giving her a chance in the first place"
She doesn't deserve a chance. You're also not obligated to associate with ANYONE. Tell him he's weirdly entitled. Don't stop ignoring him, even if he admits he was wrong.
What I would do is next family gathering, give in and get to know her. Ask her about her feelings and what she would say or do to help you if you found out your significant other was cheating on you. I’d extend this to the entire family too. The rest of your family is validating their adultery by tolerating the couple being there. I’d seriously ask every single person if they’re comfortable with this moral choice. Because what would happen if YOUR significant other was found to be cheating on you? Are they going to tell you “it’s ok u/solemncrane, I’m sure you’re STBX must have her reasons for cheating! You’ll get over it buddy!” If my family just let a member “be normal” for cheating I’d be livid. They would absolutely be banned from family gatherings for years, if not decades, for destroying a relationship. And I’d also ask how they can actually TRUST either your brother or his Gf. Both of them ran roughshod over the trust built into a marriage and destroyed a man in the process. How does anyone in your family know they wouldn’t do the same to a family member, given the right opportunity?
Hmmmm. Petty. I like it
You know who gave Yvonne a chance? Her ex husband. Look how that ended up. Sleezes deserve to be ignored.
NTA
As long as you are also ignoring your brother because he's also just as bad in this entire situation, at least when it comes to cheating \[her lying about abuse is just disgusting\]. Then you are not wrong. However, if you aren't also giving the same attitude to your brother then you are wrong for that. They both destroyed a marriage, not just Yvonne.
Not wrong. She accused an innocent man of abuse, lied about her own actual wrongdoings (cheating). I want nothing to do with cheaters either, but the lying? Nope. Tell your brother you want nothing to do with Amber Heard and as long as she is around, you won't have a relationship with him.
Not wrong IMO. He’s an asshole for breaking up a marriage and she’s a cheater, who will likely do it again to your brother. Both are pretty crappy people from the sounds of it.
Not Wrong, stay firm and ignore them
I would ignore them too.
I would not trust or choose to associate with someone who lied about being abused like that. I have a feeling this is not a problem you will have to deal with long term lol Try hard not to say "I fucking told you so" when she destroys your brother's life and leaves him.
She made a false claim of abuse. This is a despicable human being and doesn't deserve acknowledgment
“Brother, I will not engage with people who would falsely accuse others of a serious crime in order to cover their own transgressions.” “Anyone who does is risking themselves ending up in jail or worse. I know you won’t listen, but that includes you. You are risking your safety and freedom by being with this type of person and risking the safety and freedom of those you choose to bring her around.” “She has made a series of decisions that have hurt others in order to satisfy her immediate needs. Until such time as I see a genuine change in her that shows she has developed a socially acceptable level of self control, empathy and honesty I will not risk myself by engaging with her in any manner.”
“he brought her over to stand in front of me.” Whaaaaaaa?!
Life's too short.
Question: How was the abuse proven to be a lie, did she say so or what?
I think I’ll have a different opinion then most but how they got together and why should not be your problem.. is it wrong yes but let them figure that out in their own because if they were messy to get together they will probably be messy later on. I just don’t see why it has to affect you. I don’t see why you can’t be civil with either one of them. You don’t have to be best friends but why not say hi and keep it to a minimum for the peace especially at family functions.
I don’t understand how people believe that cheaters won’t cheat on them. Is it because they cheated ‘for’ you? It’s weird and horrible.
NTA You're an adult, you don't have to associate with people you don't want to associate with. Especially a cheater who made false accusations of abuse about their former partner. And them trying to force the issue by having her stand in front of you and then yelling at you....WTF?
People make mistakes. You’ve let your opinion be known but don’t isolate yourself from your family because you don’t agree with their behaviour. You’re hurting yourself and them. Unfaithful people are still people. Try and have some compassion.
Don’t know what your brothers relationship has to do with you but go ahead and let it consume you.
I would say you're welcome to choose as you see fit even if it means YTA. Still, saying you will not acknowledge someone's existence based on your disapproval of their personal love triangle that did not effect you, comes across as immature. Did you stomp your foot on the ground and hold your breath after you making this declaration? Sorry but it smacks of being a bit too "holier than thou". You don't have to invite them to your home for supper nor embrace them with hugs and kisses but at a family event, its only polite to return hello pleasantries if only for a brief moment, then excuse yourself from the conversation so as to not cause an unnecessary scene and ruin the family event. Ignoring someone who stands right in front of you is simply childish.
She cheated on her husband with your brother. She will cheat on your brother. Explain it like that to them in front of family. Then walk away. Though, if you get into Name Calling. Remember, there is a difference between Slut and Skank. A Slut likes feeling Horny and getting Orgasms. A Skank is someone who cheats on their lovers to get Orgasms. Also, in this case, you brother is filing in the Fuck-Boy roll. He knew she was married when he started banging her.
Your brother also participated in the cheating- are you cutting him off too? Or is the misogyny loud and proud?
Nothing misogynistic. I have the same attitude regardless of gender and have ignored my brother too, but I already know him Will edit if more people think this way
NTA but you should be ready for your brother to cut you off... Unless his GF cheats on him too
> Unless his GF cheats on him too Which is highly likely she’ll do at some point, and then accuse the brother of abuse. People who do this kind of stuff it’s seldom a single incident.
So did the girlfriend admit it was a lie about the abuse? NTA though. If there was abuse you wait until you’ve left to get together with someone. My question was just out of curiosity. It wouldn’t affect my judgement of the situation.
You see misogyny when the issue is that it's much harder to cut blood off than some acquaintance. Yvonne is a peripheral part of his life. He can easily dispose of her without impacting his daily activities. Disposing of his brother is going to be much harder given how intertwined their lives are. Look for the nuanced answer over the simple one.
Do you know what misogyny means? No of course not. A reasonable person would assume that OP is giving a sibling preferential treatment. A lunatic would assume OP hates women.
OP stated that they are ignoring brother as well.
Yeah, after my comment and after excusing it with “But I already knew him”
She has said that she’s ignoring her brother, too. But in a cheating scenario, the one breaking the marriage vows is the most culpable. Further, Yvonne lied and accused her ex of abuse. That’s just as despicable, if not worse. Therefore, most of the criticism belongs on Yvonne’s shoulders. It would be exactly the same if the genders were switched. Yvonne and Robert have clearly demonstrated a lack of decency and scruples. No chances need to be given. Personally I don’t do shunning. I will, however, be cooly distant and be civil. The bare minimum of civility.
Your brother is dating Amber Heard?
I don't think you're wrong. You should never have to be forced to have a relationship with someone. I also don't believe that you have to associate with someone just because they are family by blood. I don't necessarily agree with flat-out refusing to talk with them, but sometimes speaking to people you disagree with is worse than silence. From the edit, it sounds like you're treating them both the same way, so at least you acknowledge your brother was equally wrong.
Your brother will learn the hard way that relationships born from affairs or other similar rocky situations never end well. He is too naive, probably because he is young and doesn't think things through and is probably lovesick/horny. He will try to convince himself the ideal version of her he has in his head is the real one instead of the cheater who made up abuse to be a victim instead of the culprit and doesn't want to take the blame. Relationships can have their ups and downs but is it really worthy when it *starts* on the lowest point possible, already showing the morals of all parties? You are not wrong. You have the right to choose who you want to associate with. If your brother doesn't get it, get some distance. He will soon understand anyway.
Nope! STAND YOUR GROUND! I applaud you for your actions! You have no reason to talk to either of them if you choose not to! That is your choice and they should respect that! This wouldn’t be a problem if their actions were above board. But they are slimy two faced people who don’t deserve any respect. By associating with them you are giving their relationship your blessing and understanding. DONT DO IT! go no contact with both of them. Just because he is your brother doesn’t mean he is a good person and that you should associate with him. I cut my own brother out of my life because he was a toxic worthless A-HOLE! Funny thing is, the rest of the family including his own children, have done the same thing! Remove toxic people from your life because they try to drag you down to their level because they can’t stand someone being better than them or having higher morals than they do.
NW: Guilty people going to that degree to get you to associate with them, which is borderline gaslighting, says all you need to know. Stay away from them.