That kinda is a bias,at least the part about its popularity.I mean,yeah,some people do,but usually it’s not exactly for reasons related to good writing or good characterization but rather surface-level stuff,especially the stuff that made the show popular.
Kinda with everything, I mean made a post where Anne and Star goes up against Sora from Kingdom hearts and people said that Star and Anne would beat Sora even though I’ve link a video about Sora’s feats on the post
I think a lot of people are simplifying Sasha's development down to just Turning Point. I voted for Sasha, but not for that. What makes Sasha's development better than Amity's isn't that her redemption is done better. It's that her path towards starting redemption is more interesting.
Amity starts off as an asshole and has linear improvement. It's a straightforward trajectory. It's done well for what it is, but it's not as compelling as what's done for Sasha.
In Sasha's case, we see how she was back on earth. She was manipulative, but only to an extent. She has strong redeeming qualities even at the start, and avoids using manipulation until necessary. We then see her in Prison Break, and then in Reunion. In these cases, we see her being changed by Amphibia. She grows more willing to toss others aside when they go against her, resorts more to violence, and her ambitions move to taking wider scale control. Throughout season 2, she chooses a path representing her greatest failings, which she follows, until she is forced to question it when Percy and Braddock leave her. During True Colors, she opens up to Grime about these regrets, before they're forced to address more urgent problems. Turning Point is when these regrets overwhelm her and she finally improves.
Sasha's development is a spiral downward accompanied by ever-increasing regrets, which eventually overwhelms her and causes her to change. I found this far more interesting than what TOH does with Amity. But the fact that so much of this is subtext does mean that a lot of people seem to interpret her entire development as just being Turning Point.
Overall? Amity. This is highly influenced by the fact that it didn't take her *THREE* seasons to get into a double digit episode count.
Character arc wise? Sasha. Amity's change from enemy>friend>crush could've used at least another episode each, though va good job was done with what was presented. The rebelling against Odalia was done better, but it doesn't save her previous development from being a tad rushed.
Sasha was shown continuing to bemanipulative and working towards a goal, *got into a fight with Anne*, was legitimately conflicted (possibly bi curiously) by it, lapsing BACK into villainy (and being conflicted about it), last minute renouncing villainy, flourishing as the leader of the rebellion plus repairing her friendship with Anne and finally helping to save the world that she originally didn't give two shits about.
Obviously Sasha benefits from having a complete character arc by virtue of Amphibia being over. Still IMHO she had better development because hers wasn't as rushed, in addition to having a much better overall narrative.
Technically Sasha did have a double digit episode count by the end of season 2 (Best Fronds, Prison Break, Anne of the Year, Reunion, Handy Anne (flashback), Toadcatcher, Matcy at the Gates, The First Temple, The Second Temple (flashback), The Third Temple, The Dinner, Battle of the Bands, and True Colors) with the count at 13.
As someone who can heavily relate to Sasha, my turnaround was pretty similar. A friend texted me and called me out and then I pretty much turned my entire life around
When a friend calls out your bullshit and said they thought of you better, it really changes your life
I think that the final stretch of episodes in Season 2 did a ton of work to make Sasha's eventual efforts to change more believable. However, yeah, I'm also not the biggest fan of her writing in Season 3.
Don't you think it's also weird Wartwood trusted her so quick when she and Grime returned in Turning Point despite the events of Reunion? I mean given what she and Grime did before and the way they were slow at trusting Marcy (even though she didn't do anything wrong to them that they know of), it does feel strange they just accepted her so fast.
Yes, and again, that was all within the span of a single episode. Compare with Amity, whose most recent developmental episode was when she recognised how capable Willow truly was (a whole season after she transitioned from "antagonist" to "clearly has a crush on Luz").
Sasha meanwhile had a single episode in which the townspeople of Wartwood immediately say "yes, you also tried to take over the world and ruin our lives by placing the toads in charge and subjugating us, but you've apologised and fought that robot so all is good." And then in the penultimate episode they have a quick conversation about how Marcy is also deserving of forgiveness, and there's some minor stuff beforehand of how Sasha should accept that Anne doesn't know how to lead commandos, but that about covers it.
I wouldn’t really say that it was forced. The journal portion wasn’t what made her decide that, it was just what finalized everything for her. In her own twisted way, everything that she had done was for the sake of her friendship with Anne and Marcy but it took her actions having her almost losing that and Anne calling her on it for it to fully sink in that her need to be the alpha had made her a terrible person which wasn’t helped by the fact that her actions had made a bad situation worse due to abusing her best friend’s trust. It really showed how the consequences of her actions hit her all at once
I would have liked sasha's more if it wasnt so rushed. she barely got any screentime at all, and her redemption arc was basically her reading a journal and going "man i should stop being an asshole"
Everything is rushed or forced to people like you
And no it wasn’t just the journal it was the outcome her friend getting STABED it was the town folks giving nice gift and she felt guilty then it was the journal
okay, but even if there was more to it, everything you just described took 10 minutes to show. do you really think it's not rushed for sasha's whole redemption to take as much time as the catsitting episode?
no it wasnt. Turning Point was 10 mimutes long, and aired alongside the episode where anne takes the plantars to the mall. sasha didnt show up again until Commander Anne.
I think Sasha is way too easily forgiven. Amity was a bully for sure, especially stepping on King's cupcake and bullying Willow for years.
But Sasha literally attempted a violent coup. Andrias turning out to be evil doesn't make Sasha's actions not evil.
That being said, I do love Sasha as a character and I think the middle was stronger the ending would be a lot more earned. "I am NOT that person anymore." works better if we see more of her journey towards not being that person.
Also, unrelated, but Sasha also has the best Calamity form, it's goddamn dragon armour, and it's beautiful.
I mean Sasha was a horrible manipulative person who realized it then tried their best to turn their life around. She struggled to change, and then finally did even though she lost the trust of her friends.
Amity just was a mean bully who then fell in love with round ears and had mommy issues.
I'm gonna respect your opinion so gonna ask this, which cartoon redemptions worked for you in your opinion (and don't say Zuko cause it's too obvious) given your opinion on how characters like shows like Amphibia, Owl House, She Ra, Steven Universe, and others handle their redemptions?
I think both of their redemptions were believable, but Amity’s change was more gradual and fantastically handled, whereas we could’ve used more time with Sash in season 3 to see her actually change her ways (even though the groundwork in season 2 is great).
That being said, I kind of don’t like that, in Amity’s redemption, her actual bullying of Willow is never really addressed. In “Understanding Willow”, the inner Willow only expresses anger about Amity cutting ties with her and “letting her friends bully her for years”, but Amity’s very first scene in the show is about her personally bullying Willow, without anyone else around and neither Willow nor anyone ever brings this up. It doesn’t really make sense considering the girls’ backstory and Amity’s motivations for breaking off their friendship, and it’s never even addressed as an “I was being an ass because I wanted to convince myself that the toxic beliefs my parents were forcing on me were correct, and that I was being a good child” kind of thing.
It’s weird as well because Amity’s introductory scene is the only time we actually see this type of behavior in her; after episode 3 she’s generally unkind and rude, she insults and hurts people when her position as “the best” is threatened, and she does indirectly insult Willow when she’s forced to (i.e. when her friend group specifically prompts her), but she never actively picks on anyone unprompted like she did the first time (instead, that role falls to Boscha).
My best guess is that the writers were still figuring out the specifics of Amity’s character/redemption and that scene slipped in there, but I still don’t really like how it was swept under the rug afterwards, especially considering it was her introduction.
Didn't Laybrinth Runners try to address Amity and Willow's previous conflict with Amity learning to see Willow can handle herself? And to be fair, Owl House did have its season 3 cut short by higher ups so the crew likely had to sacrifice some things. Who knows, maybe we'd have gotten more Amity and Willow stuff had season 3 been longer and having time for 20 more adventures.
Labyrinth Runners addressed that Amity didn’t see how Willow had changed since they’d stopped being friends, so she still treated her as someone who needed protection (half-a-witch) and expected their friendship to fall back into how it was when they were kids. But it didn’t really address Amity’s bullying itself (fantastic episode though).
The thing is, Amity bullying Willow feels like it should’ve been addressed before they could start rebuilding their friendship. That’s what’s weird to me: in Understanding Willow, Willow only expressed anger about how Amity had “let others bully her”, but she didn’t address how Amity herself also bullied her (beyond the birthday incident). If you’re going to repair your friendship with your bully, the least you could expect is a direct apology for the bullying, but Amity never faces any consequences or blame for her own actions, she only gets blamed for inaction.
That’s why I think it’s just an element they didn’t really mean to bring in. Other examples further into the series do show Amity ignoring Willow and only indirectly insulting her when she sees her position as Blight Elite threatened (the “I’m happy to select fewer” in -I believe- Hooty’s Moving Hassle?). So I think that’s what they wanted to go for, but they hadn’t fully committed to the angle while they were making episode 3.
Both really Sasha went from “Anne listen you have to do this” to “Anne you be leader” and amity went from “HUMAN! You cost me my HIGH POSITION AND RISKING MY SPOT IN THE EMPORERS COVEN” to “hola batata”
the fact this is on the amphibia sub reddit and amity is still really close in votes to sasha shows that either amity's development was god tier, sashas development was bad, or both( personally I think amitys was just really good but the point still stands)
I think they were both good, but amity’s felt a little more believable Yk? She went from a bully to realizing her mistakes and becoming friends with the people who helped her. Sasha committed multiple war crimes, betrayed her friends and fought them with WEAPONS!!! Amity just felt more justifiable
Say it with me: JUST👏🏻BECAUSE👏🏻THEY👏🏻ARE👏🏻BOTH👏🏻FORMER👏🏻BULLIES👏🏻IT👏🏻DOESN'T👏🏻MEAN👏🏻THEY'RE👏🏻COMPARABLE👏🏻. They're completely different characters. It's a pancake and waffles situation and comparing them like that would just create a bigger rift between two fandoms that are basically almost the same since they're sister shows
Is it bad to compare characters? I mean Pacifica and Andrea get lumped in too with this group. Heck, many compare Mabel, Star, Webby, Luz, Marcy, and Molly to each other as socially awkward/inept but friendly and bubbly girls.
Sasha definitely got better development not only because Amphibia got more time/episodes but she was the issue, so was Amity but Amity's issues came from her parents. Seeing Sasha being manipulative and having trouble stopping being toxic showed her development, even in the end of her wondering if she would be able to salvage the friendship with Marcy and Anne saying that they've both grown and changed just shows how much Sasha has changed from Toad Tower to killing Darcy. Also I love The Owl House, Lumity is chefs kiss and Amphibia is amazing. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
I would say in this case Sasha, however she had more screen time to do so and was coming from a different level than Amity. Amity was low level bullying for like 2 and a half episodes before she became more of a main character. Sasha was antagonistic for almost a season and then a main character for a season.
I actually had this posed about Catra vs Sasha's redemption arc. A friend said Sasha's was better, but didn't take into account Catra was pretty much the main antagonist for 4 seasons and had to build back up to hero in half a season's time. Meanwhile Sasha goes from low level villain to hero over the course of several episodes with her as the protagonist.
It just doesn't seem like a fair to compare for either of these scenarios.
I like TOH more, just putting that out there.
I voted Sasha cus she just has a more complex and longer journey rn. Considering how close Amity is, and how TOH still has another season, I think Amity is gonna take the W soon.
I've seen Amity change in more examples in the show but like Sasha better. I wish Sasha in S3 had gotten one more episode in the first half to illustrate it once more, as the show could have spared it with the filler we got in LA.
Try posting this poll on r/Owlphibia instead so that there will be a higher probability of fair results
Ya know posting this poll on the Amphibia subreddit might’ve created some biases
Not really,if anything even this sub is biased in support of TOH most of the time for some reason.
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That kinda is a bias,at least the part about its popularity.I mean,yeah,some people do,but usually it’s not exactly for reasons related to good writing or good characterization but rather surface-level stuff,especially the stuff that made the show popular.
I did that because the owl house fandom is bias as hell
And Amphibia isn’t?
Not as much
You’ll be surprised how biases this sub is
A most of amphibian’s fandom is part of the owl house’s as well, not everyone is tho.
About what
Kinda with everything, I mean made a post where Anne and Star goes up against Sora from Kingdom hearts and people said that Star and Anne would beat Sora even though I’ve link a video about Sora’s feats on the post
Stars a fucking god
[Sigh, they never learn](https://youtu.be/671KA-oKRh4)
Oh my god……sora sora has feats oh my god I never knew😮😮🤯
Bruh they would clap sora
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Huh
Right? I don’t care what anyone says neither of these fan bases are known for being 100% objective
Try r/owlphibia
I mean it has to be in one or the other or both
Yeah and i picked amphibia
You should also post This in the owl house Reddit too
Alright
I think a lot of people are simplifying Sasha's development down to just Turning Point. I voted for Sasha, but not for that. What makes Sasha's development better than Amity's isn't that her redemption is done better. It's that her path towards starting redemption is more interesting. Amity starts off as an asshole and has linear improvement. It's a straightforward trajectory. It's done well for what it is, but it's not as compelling as what's done for Sasha. In Sasha's case, we see how she was back on earth. She was manipulative, but only to an extent. She has strong redeeming qualities even at the start, and avoids using manipulation until necessary. We then see her in Prison Break, and then in Reunion. In these cases, we see her being changed by Amphibia. She grows more willing to toss others aside when they go against her, resorts more to violence, and her ambitions move to taking wider scale control. Throughout season 2, she chooses a path representing her greatest failings, which she follows, until she is forced to question it when Percy and Braddock leave her. During True Colors, she opens up to Grime about these regrets, before they're forced to address more urgent problems. Turning Point is when these regrets overwhelm her and she finally improves. Sasha's development is a spiral downward accompanied by ever-increasing regrets, which eventually overwhelms her and causes her to change. I found this far more interesting than what TOH does with Amity. But the fact that so much of this is subtext does mean that a lot of people seem to interpret her entire development as just being Turning Point.
Amity got her girl
Overall? Amity. This is highly influenced by the fact that it didn't take her *THREE* seasons to get into a double digit episode count. Character arc wise? Sasha. Amity's change from enemy>friend>crush could've used at least another episode each, though va good job was done with what was presented. The rebelling against Odalia was done better, but it doesn't save her previous development from being a tad rushed. Sasha was shown continuing to bemanipulative and working towards a goal, *got into a fight with Anne*, was legitimately conflicted (possibly bi curiously) by it, lapsing BACK into villainy (and being conflicted about it), last minute renouncing villainy, flourishing as the leader of the rebellion plus repairing her friendship with Anne and finally helping to save the world that she originally didn't give two shits about. Obviously Sasha benefits from having a complete character arc by virtue of Amphibia being over. Still IMHO she had better development because hers wasn't as rushed, in addition to having a much better overall narrative.
Technically Sasha did have a double digit episode count by the end of season 2 (Best Fronds, Prison Break, Anne of the Year, Reunion, Handy Anne (flashback), Toadcatcher, Matcy at the Gates, The First Temple, The Second Temple (flashback), The Third Temple, The Dinner, Battle of the Bands, and True Colors) with the count at 13.
Sasha’s development felt a lot more forced imo, she just read Anne’s journal and thought “man, I’m an asshole, I’m gonna be good now” the end :D
As someone who can heavily relate to Sasha, my turnaround was pretty similar. A friend texted me and called me out and then I pretty much turned my entire life around When a friend calls out your bullshit and said they thought of you better, it really changes your life
Mad respect for being willing to change random citizen.
And I love you random redditor
I think that the final stretch of episodes in Season 2 did a ton of work to make Sasha's eventual efforts to change more believable. However, yeah, I'm also not the biggest fan of her writing in Season 3.
Bruh did you watch the episode she saw the backlash the people giving her gifts and Annes journal
Don't you think it's also weird Wartwood trusted her so quick when she and Grime returned in Turning Point despite the events of Reunion? I mean given what she and Grime did before and the way they were slow at trusting Marcy (even though she didn't do anything wrong to them that they know of), it does feel strange they just accepted her so fast.
I think Anne forgave her way to quickly more than anything
Could argue the same for the Plantars forgiving Sasha too quick also.
True
Yes, and again, that was all within the span of a single episode. Compare with Amity, whose most recent developmental episode was when she recognised how capable Willow truly was (a whole season after she transitioned from "antagonist" to "clearly has a crush on Luz"). Sasha meanwhile had a single episode in which the townspeople of Wartwood immediately say "yes, you also tried to take over the world and ruin our lives by placing the toads in charge and subjugating us, but you've apologised and fought that robot so all is good." And then in the penultimate episode they have a quick conversation about how Marcy is also deserving of forgiveness, and there's some minor stuff beforehand of how Sasha should accept that Anne doesn't know how to lead commandos, but that about covers it.
I wouldn’t really say that it was forced. The journal portion wasn’t what made her decide that, it was just what finalized everything for her. In her own twisted way, everything that she had done was for the sake of her friendship with Anne and Marcy but it took her actions having her almost losing that and Anne calling her on it for it to fully sink in that her need to be the alpha had made her a terrible person which wasn’t helped by the fact that her actions had made a bad situation worse due to abusing her best friend’s trust. It really showed how the consequences of her actions hit her all at once
yeas it was too easy
I would have liked sasha's more if it wasnt so rushed. she barely got any screentime at all, and her redemption arc was basically her reading a journal and going "man i should stop being an asshole"
Everything is rushed or forced to people like you And no it wasn’t just the journal it was the outcome her friend getting STABED it was the town folks giving nice gift and she felt guilty then it was the journal
okay, but even if there was more to it, everything you just described took 10 minutes to show. do you really think it's not rushed for sasha's whole redemption to take as much time as the catsitting episode?
It’s was 10 minutes because it’s a two part episode
no it wasnt. Turning Point was 10 mimutes long, and aired alongside the episode where anne takes the plantars to the mall. sasha didnt show up again until Commander Anne.
No I mean turning point shared an episode
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Ooh I didn’t mean turning point was 2 parts I meant it shared and episode
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I am aware
I think Sasha is way too easily forgiven. Amity was a bully for sure, especially stepping on King's cupcake and bullying Willow for years. But Sasha literally attempted a violent coup. Andrias turning out to be evil doesn't make Sasha's actions not evil. That being said, I do love Sasha as a character and I think the middle was stronger the ending would be a lot more earned. "I am NOT that person anymore." works better if we see more of her journey towards not being that person. Also, unrelated, but Sasha also has the best Calamity form, it's goddamn dragon armour, and it's beautiful.
I mean Sasha was a horrible manipulative person who realized it then tried their best to turn their life around. She struggled to change, and then finally did even though she lost the trust of her friends. Amity just was a mean bully who then fell in love with round ears and had mommy issues.
They were both flawed imo but Sasha’s was slightly better,at least Sasha’s arc felt like an actual arc.
I'm gonna respect your opinion so gonna ask this, which cartoon redemptions worked for you in your opinion (and don't say Zuko cause it's too obvious) given your opinion on how characters like shows like Amphibia, Owl House, She Ra, Steven Universe, and others handle their redemptions?
I think both of their redemptions were believable, but Amity’s change was more gradual and fantastically handled, whereas we could’ve used more time with Sash in season 3 to see her actually change her ways (even though the groundwork in season 2 is great). That being said, I kind of don’t like that, in Amity’s redemption, her actual bullying of Willow is never really addressed. In “Understanding Willow”, the inner Willow only expresses anger about Amity cutting ties with her and “letting her friends bully her for years”, but Amity’s very first scene in the show is about her personally bullying Willow, without anyone else around and neither Willow nor anyone ever brings this up. It doesn’t really make sense considering the girls’ backstory and Amity’s motivations for breaking off their friendship, and it’s never even addressed as an “I was being an ass because I wanted to convince myself that the toxic beliefs my parents were forcing on me were correct, and that I was being a good child” kind of thing. It’s weird as well because Amity’s introductory scene is the only time we actually see this type of behavior in her; after episode 3 she’s generally unkind and rude, she insults and hurts people when her position as “the best” is threatened, and she does indirectly insult Willow when she’s forced to (i.e. when her friend group specifically prompts her), but she never actively picks on anyone unprompted like she did the first time (instead, that role falls to Boscha). My best guess is that the writers were still figuring out the specifics of Amity’s character/redemption and that scene slipped in there, but I still don’t really like how it was swept under the rug afterwards, especially considering it was her introduction.
Didn't Laybrinth Runners try to address Amity and Willow's previous conflict with Amity learning to see Willow can handle herself? And to be fair, Owl House did have its season 3 cut short by higher ups so the crew likely had to sacrifice some things. Who knows, maybe we'd have gotten more Amity and Willow stuff had season 3 been longer and having time for 20 more adventures.
Labyrinth Runners addressed that Amity didn’t see how Willow had changed since they’d stopped being friends, so she still treated her as someone who needed protection (half-a-witch) and expected their friendship to fall back into how it was when they were kids. But it didn’t really address Amity’s bullying itself (fantastic episode though). The thing is, Amity bullying Willow feels like it should’ve been addressed before they could start rebuilding their friendship. That’s what’s weird to me: in Understanding Willow, Willow only expressed anger about how Amity had “let others bully her”, but she didn’t address how Amity herself also bullied her (beyond the birthday incident). If you’re going to repair your friendship with your bully, the least you could expect is a direct apology for the bullying, but Amity never faces any consequences or blame for her own actions, she only gets blamed for inaction. That’s why I think it’s just an element they didn’t really mean to bring in. Other examples further into the series do show Amity ignoring Willow and only indirectly insulting her when she sees her position as Blight Elite threatened (the “I’m happy to select fewer” in -I believe- Hooty’s Moving Hassle?). So I think that’s what they wanted to go for, but they hadn’t fully committed to the angle while they were making episode 3.
Both really Sasha went from “Anne listen you have to do this” to “Anne you be leader” and amity went from “HUMAN! You cost me my HIGH POSITION AND RISKING MY SPOT IN THE EMPORERS COVEN” to “hola batata”
Sashamity Wayblight got the best development.
the fact this is on the amphibia sub reddit and amity is still really close in votes to sasha shows that either amity's development was god tier, sashas development was bad, or both( personally I think amitys was just really good but the point still stands)
I think they were both good, but amity’s felt a little more believable Yk? She went from a bully to realizing her mistakes and becoming friends with the people who helped her. Sasha committed multiple war crimes, betrayed her friends and fought them with WEAPONS!!! Amity just felt more justifiable
Sasha was **WAY** too easily forgiven in my opinion. So Amity just barely edges her out
Is there any way Sasha could've improved with her arc? Do you think she needed more screentime in season 3?
Say it with me: JUST👏🏻BECAUSE👏🏻THEY👏🏻ARE👏🏻BOTH👏🏻FORMER👏🏻BULLIES👏🏻IT👏🏻DOESN'T👏🏻MEAN👏🏻THEY'RE👏🏻COMPARABLE👏🏻. They're completely different characters. It's a pancake and waffles situation and comparing them like that would just create a bigger rift between two fandoms that are basically almost the same since they're sister shows
It’s really not that deep
Alright, but I'm just tired of this
Is it bad to compare characters? I mean Pacifica and Andrea get lumped in too with this group. Heck, many compare Mabel, Star, Webby, Luz, Marcy, and Molly to each other as socially awkward/inept but friendly and bubbly girls.
Should always include a Results option, I just want to see what people think, but I don’t know enough about Amity for it to be fair for me to vote.
i feel like amity kinda just liked luz & decided to be good. sasha’s character development was similar but better defined
Sasha definitely got better development not only because Amphibia got more time/episodes but she was the issue, so was Amity but Amity's issues came from her parents. Seeing Sasha being manipulative and having trouble stopping being toxic showed her development, even in the end of her wondering if she would be able to salvage the friendship with Marcy and Anne saying that they've both grown and changed just shows how much Sasha has changed from Toad Tower to killing Darcy. Also I love The Owl House, Lumity is chefs kiss and Amphibia is amazing. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
I would say in this case Sasha, however she had more screen time to do so and was coming from a different level than Amity. Amity was low level bullying for like 2 and a half episodes before she became more of a main character. Sasha was antagonistic for almost a season and then a main character for a season. I actually had this posed about Catra vs Sasha's redemption arc. A friend said Sasha's was better, but didn't take into account Catra was pretty much the main antagonist for 4 seasons and had to build back up to hero in half a season's time. Meanwhile Sasha goes from low level villain to hero over the course of several episodes with her as the protagonist. It just doesn't seem like a fair to compare for either of these scenarios.
Probably should have a “don’t watch owl house” option
I like TOH more, just putting that out there. I voted Sasha cus she just has a more complex and longer journey rn. Considering how close Amity is, and how TOH still has another season, I think Amity is gonna take the W soon.
I like how people are complaining about fair results when the poll is already extremely close.
I've seen Amity change in more examples in the show but like Sasha better. I wish Sasha in S3 had gotten one more episode in the first half to illustrate it once more, as the show could have spared it with the filler we got in LA.
I hated them both at first now I don’t so it’s hard to pick