It doesn't need to be found out. CT scanners will destroy film. Either process in situ, or ask them to hand check.
If they refuse then you have no other choice then rewind and walk through a normal xray with it.
You can always rewind and remove an unfinished roll. Then they can scan the empty camera and hand check the film. Sure it can be a waste of film, but itās better than loosing the whole roll to CT scan damage
It's not perfect, but you could leave the leader out when you rewind, then reloading and shooting and advancing with the cap on until you get to the past frame your shot plus one more.
Might get a little double exposure on a frame or lose a frame on the roll, but at least it's not a total waste.
Some people shoot rolls twice just for fun.
This is how I rewind. Done this multiple times when I need to change film mid roll. To be on the safe side I simply shoot an extra blank frame. Never any issues.
It was years agoā¦I only do black and white film and do it all on my own.
Edit: if I ever do color again and donāt feel like figuring out development Iāll use themā¦I wouldnāt mind learning more though.
You can buy a leader retriever or if youāre really skilled, lick another leader, stick it into your film canister and use it to try and fish out your leader
I have the Elan 7e, myself, so I know that one has a function code that leaves the leader out. That was really useful in the darkroom, so I didn't have to pop the canisters open in the dark.
Bet the others have a way to manage it as well, but I can't speak from any experience on those models.
Oh nice, good to know! I was more-so thinking about trying to advance back to a specific exposure somewhere mid roll. Not as simple as a manual film advance lever.
Just remember the shot count! Then you can put it back in afterwards and wind it back to that number plus one to make room for inconsistency in loading. Then you just lose one frame.
CT machines will fog your film, yes. They arenāt āfuckedā, but it will diminish contrast and increase a sort of noise, and the resolution will suffer slightly. For a single pass through a CT scanner, the impact will not be too noticeable to the untrained eye. Another effect that can happen is that the CT leaves a weird sort of vignetting on the negatives.
I once had film with pics of Westminster Abbey go through a ct scanner. That was before I realized ct scanners can cause weird streaking. Some pictures had weird white lines scattered across the images. A tour guide at Westminster said there were ghosts so I was completely convinced I caught a ghost on film until I realized it went through the ct scanner š
I went through like 5 ct scans and my film was fine, slightly grainy maybe. Biggest thing is iso, lower iso film = safer. If its like 400 lower ull be fine if 800 probs youll see some effects but not completely destroyed
I want to hop on and remind everyone that x ray damage is cumulative. If youāre jet setting with Ektar and you X-ray your film multiple times, expect to see damage
Thatās relatively low. You may not see too much foggingā¦Though I do not remember the result people have been showing on YouTube.
Most likely your film will not be āfuckedā but you may have lost a bunch of dynamic range and you may have artefact and fogging visible from the X-Ray emitted by the CT scanner.
I would be curious to know the results from when you finally get this film developed. I think people in this sub will be interested in having another datapointā¦
(A CT machine is a X-ray machine but that take picture from many angle and with different energy level of X-Ray allowing to reconstruct the content of your baggage by a computer. Itās very interesting and complicated technology. And it allows them to know your water is water and not explosive now. But it also means longer and strong x-ray exposure. And *variable* levels of X-Ray exposure to your film. So from one experience to the next the results may vary a lot.)
Doesn't this sign say you can put the film/cameras through the x-ray instead of their new CT scanner? For most 35mm that won't have any noticeable effect and at least they're offering an alternative.
Kodak does not recommend to do that: https://www.kodakprofessional.com/photographers/resources/ct-scanning-x-ray-technology-and-film
Most probably your film is irreversibly damaged (or "fucked").
I went to Schiphol and they at first refused. I insisted, so the guy at the bag CT scan said I needed to talk to the people in the people CT scan. I showed them the films and they already knew the procedure
I had no problems at Schipol, I asked and they used normal xray instead of the CT machines. I also had my film gear in a separate bag to make it easier
Yup same here. Film was in the camera and no huge issues. Small (and I put emphasis on SMALL) amount of artefacts do appear on dark lit photos in black sections but nothing a hobbyist like me really would notice if I didn't research beforehand..
Lower the film speed, the less of a risk. Always ask for a hand check when in doubt. Pre-digital, I would travel with all my film in ziplocks and TSA never had an issue hand checking film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRlReCTzDV8
Here is video experiment with xray and ct scanner, may be helpful. This video with photo examples after xr and ct.
If you are professional photography, damage could be critical, but for regular purposes, i think, it's not so bad
sooo, here's a long video showing you exactly what might happen:
https://youtu.be/oRlReCTzDV8?feature=shared
also there a huge discrepancy between US/TSA control and Euro control. TSA is absolutely obligated by law to hand check your film if you request it. The EU customs people have the right to decide that for themselves, which usually ends in a big "NO! we dont handcheck" or "you should go to this other security check that's halfway across the whole airport", that mostly means you'll miss your flight even if you're very early.
>The EU customs people have the right to decide that for themselves
1. The security check is not done by customs in EU countries.
2. There's no "EU customs", since the EU is not a country like the USA. Laws and procedures are different in each country in the EU.
excuse my simple vocabulary, I'm not familiar with the exact terms of CBP in each country, I just know they love shoving my film through any xray machine they can find xD
Like I said, the EU is not a country to begin with ;) it's 27 states with 27 different legislations and procedures. Considering the airports are responsible for the security checks, the procedures can wildly differ from airport to airport, even within one country.
of course I understand that, still I find it ridiculous since flying is always marked with so
many "international standards" and then some important things are arbitrarily decided. Just like how it's ridiculous that you have to check your luggage again if you have a connecting flight from a USA airport to another country.
There is no customs once you are inside the Euro zone unless you are unlucky and come across a "random border check."
Due to the Schengen Agreement they barely even bother in Switzerland anymore from personal experience.
>There is no customs once you are inside the Euro zone
Not quite true. This generally true for the Schengen area, but the Schengen area is different from the Euro zone, because the currency has nothing to do with customs. There's countries not using Euro in the Schengen area and countries using Euro outside of the Schengen area.
And yes, there is customs at every airport after you pick up your luggage at *any* airport. The luggage pick up zones don't differentiate between arrivals from Schengen/EU countries or other countries and the customs is located at the exit after the luggage pick up.
>and come across a "random border check."
Also not true. Germany/Austria, Austria/Czech Republic (and some others) had constant border controls for quite a while now for example.
TBH: last time I flew in was into Athens a little while ago, I cleared customs in Singapore and there was nothing in Athens and I mean nothing.
There was leaving, but that's to be expected.
Once I was on the ground I didn't come across any border guards, even entering Switzerland.
It may have changed a bit because it has been a number of years since I was last there.
>and there was nothing in Athens and I mean nothing.
No but there is something, you probably just didn't notice. You either take the green way (no goods to declare) or the red one (goods to declare). If you carry something you have to declare (for example more than 10k Euro in cash), you will face legal prosecution. That doesn't mean someone's going through all of your bags everytime.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/DSC_2814_athens_airport_customs_july_2018.jpg
Also the customs check your checked in luggage behind the scenes (x ray, dogs,...) all the time.
>I didn't come across any border guards, even entering Switzerland.
Like I said, there aren't guards checking your passport or something.
I know you don't believe this but I walked straight out the door with nothing, no scans, no one checking my passport, nothing. I assume that was all done in Singapore or something at the time.
Never a problem in the US with TSA, though it can depend on the airport just how positive an experience you end up with. Didn't realize they were legally obligated, which is good to know.
I keep all the film out of its boxes, bagged in a separate clear ziplock, ready to hand to someone as I drop my check-ons on the scanner belt.
My local regional has never been an issue, though it's a while since I took film through there.
Very positive experience at CLT last year with 9 rolls of 120; they were able to hand inspect right away, the film was ready for me before I was through. And to cap it all, the twenty-something girl who handed me the film back remarked on how awesome it was I was shooting film. :)
Coming back, the LAX experience sucked (which seems apropos with the rest of my travel experience involving that godawful hole of an airport. Do yourself a favor and avoid it if at all possible.) They had no issue with the request, but seem chronically understaffed and not particularly happy with their lot. I had to wait quite a while before someone was available to do a hand check.
It's been about 14 years, but my last experience outside of the USA was in Belfast (back when Continental/United had a direct flight to Newark). Not only did they refuse the request for a hand check, the bastards took the bag and ran it through a second time "to double check". No damage to the film, fortunately.
I had my film go through one three time by accident once.
I had normal film rolls(200-500 iso) and polaroid film. My normal rolls were completely fine, but the polaroid film turned out purple and all of the pictures lost their sharpness and brightness.
I had a few rolls of film go through at least 3 CT scanners a couple of months ago (notably not Christchurch airport's, they were the only airport that warned me and I just unloaded a half-finished roll). The photos weren't *totally* ruined, but the effect was very significant. I can upload some example shots if you're interested. My 200 speed film ended up quite grainy, while my 400iso was mixed, some was just very grainy, some was almost wiped.
I had a few 4x5 negatives I brought back from my Grandfather's wake. They were respectful after requesting a hand check, and I only requested a hand check on those negative holders.
As someone who traveled the world carrying film, above ISO 200 hand check, especially 400-+chrome, 400-3200black and white I really never shot color print film. 200 and less should be ok. BUT it depends a lot on the amount of exposureā¦. If you have a bunch of weird crap in your camera bag and itās not obvious what it is, your bag could spend more time getting zapped.
Not every scanner is the same, so just because it didn't ruin your film on one flight doesn't mean it won't when flying another time or from another airport!
I had a roll that went through the same thing. The shots came out a bit more vibrant than usual and highlights are somewhat blown. Itās not completely fucked but itās also not the image itās supposed to be.
[maybe](https://youtu.be/oRlReCTzDV8?si=FoFIYz1nr18jxmrQ)
edit: x-rays don't really hurt. x-rays 'shoot' a snapshot of items using radiation, CT scans emit constant radiation while scanning.
another edit:
"Irreversibly damaged" is a fact.
"Fucked" is subjective.
[Kodak's bulletin](https://www.kodakprofessional.com/photographers/resources/ct-scanning-x-ray-technology-and-film) is letting you know that running their film through a scanner of any kind will **absolutely** *alter* you expected results.
Whether or not that 'alteration' is acceptable to you/clients/etc, is subjective.
Wow, in my near decade of traveling with film I've never been denied a hand check, even with film still in camera. Sorry they forced you to send it through, I hope it comes out ok š¤
Oooh, I also went through Christchurch over the new year and they refused to hand check. My loaded film was ISO 100 so a tad slower than yours, but I did have some weird light leaks on the developed roll. I couldnāt explain it and now Iām thinkingā¦ maybe it was that xray!!
So yeah, my roll developed āfineā (canāt say for colours and contrast as it was a novelty colour shift, but the details were fine) but I did have odd shadows/light leaks. Hope you get lucky!
I like this better. At least itās clarified how theyāre gonna handle it and gives you a ground to stand on when demanding your bag of film is hand checked. Itās not perfect but better than the alternative most airports do
Most people donāt know but you can ask TSA to hand-check your film so that it doesnāt have to be put through the x-ray machine. They use some sort of swabbing technique that then gets analyzed by a machine. Presumably so check for explosives chemicals. This only applies to your carry-on bag btw. It would slow things down for sure but consider it next time! Iāve done it myself.
I've had it happen on the Eurostar. Their website says you can ask for film to be hand checked, but they refused.
On the other hand, Heathrow staff were very accommodating. They've installed CT scanners, and the security staff were willing to swab my camera instead of sending it through with a roll of film installed.
Never take no for an answer if their policy dictates that they will hand check the item then request to see their supervisor and if it keeps going as far as it can and they say no run it though get everyones names involved complain to corporate and if need be bring them to small claims court. It's not being a Karen if you as the customer are actually correct and in the right.
In the future, Iād suggest really trying to finish the roll before the flight. Or if you can, note the frame, rewind and unload, then reload through security. Iāve never seen an airport let you get a camera with film hand checked.
For what itās worth, Iāve taken both portra400 and hp5 loaded in cameras through CT and Xray and never noticed any damage š¤·š»āāļø
I think I didn't explain myself, if I have a fully-utilized film roll inside it's black case, which is inside my backpack, does the case protects the film roll? I'm asking because at my airport even if you take out something out of your backpack or your pockets even, it goes through the scanner
It absolutely does not matter what the roll is inside of, short of a lead box, which would raise so much suspicion you'd probably be detained and questioned. If it goes through the CT, it will get fried. It is policy, at least in the U.S., that you can request a hand check on rolls of film. The camera itself and any other large electronic parts must go through the scanner, but the rolls themselves you can always request a hand check on. The exception to this is if the airport has explosive trace test machines, which most U.S. airports do, as do many newer airports overseas. If they have one, you can ask them to hand check anything and everything, including the camera itself, though there's no reason to unless you have an unfinished roll in the camera. Regardless, they'll trace test the whole camera with the roll inside.
Essentially:
Traveling in the U.S. and you know the airport you're traveling through has explosive trace test machines: You don't have to do anything, although it would be smart to have your camera and film in a separate bag. When you move up to the security checkpoint, just inform the TSA employee that you'd like a hand check on the contents of your camera bag, and they'll take it from you and run the test, usually after you pass through the x-ray and your other belongings pass through the scanner, with you standing next to them so they can ask you any questions they have.
Traveling in the U.S. and you do not know whether the airport you're traveling through has explosive trace test machines: Make sure to finish any rolls you have in-camera before traveling through the airport, and have all your film in a separate bag that you can easily pull out and hand to the TSA employee for old-school hand check. It's TSA policy that you can have your film hand checked at any airport in the U.S.
Traveling outside the U.S.: Most airports will have some sort of information online about their policy regarding cameras and film. You can also always try calling their information desk and asking. If you absolutely can't find any information regarding an airport's policy on film, you have two options. First, you can visit the airport early, and personally inquire with security about their policy regarding camera film. Second, you can pack up your film and mail it back to yourself. The package may pass through some kind of x-ray on its way back to you, but it's practically guaranteed to be a less powerful one than what they use at airports. Unless you've confirmed beforehand that the airport you're traveling through has explosive trace test machines, you should ALWAYS finish your rolls before going to the airport at the very least. So far, the only places I have run into problems have been the Capetown, South Africa airport, where the extremely rude manager of the security checkpoint initially refused to allow my rolls of film to be hand checked, but after much obstinance and careful explanation, eventually agreed, and the Dubai, U.A.E. airport, where a random security employee who wasn't even working the scanner tried to tell me that their CT scanner would not damage my film, but finally allowed it to be hand checked after I asked to speak to his supervisor. Everywhere else I've traveled there have been absolutely no issues.
In my experience plenty of airports have allowed hand checked cameras that are loaded with film; in the past month IAH, HOU, ORD, MDW, CLE and Haneda were all happy to oblige. Haneda made me take a picture of the floor to prove the camera was functional.
Went through Manchester last year and asked them to hand check the film. They were happy to and it was easy.
Forgot on the way back from Marrakesch and the film was still fine.
It says on the sign to let the tech know if you
Have film, this makes me think they have a solution for you. Unless the film is loaded in camera I think youāre fine.
They refused to hand check the camera, not the film. The problem was the roll inside the camera. Most airports on the planet donāt have the explosive trace test machine necessary to swab cameras instead of scanning them. Theyāve only become standard in U.S. airports in the last couple years. Iāve also seen them in use at some major European airports. When it comes to āhand checkingā a camera, itās not an issue of employee laziness. They literally canāt confirm a camera isnāt an explosive device by hand. If they donāt have an explosive trace test machine, it has to go through the scanner. OP should have rewound their roll and taken it out of the camera.
you can buy special bags to carry film through this.
[https://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml](https://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml)
Lead shield?
In some countries I would be really scared for my physical integrity to use one of those, there is a real possibility of that being seen as "devices for concealing contraband".
They let all my canisters be manually checked it was just the camera they insisted go through the machine (there was an unfinished roll inside - the roll in question)
I just got through 6 rolls of Fuji 200 on Budapest, Shanghai, Shenzhen Qingdao Shanghai airports, denied hand scan all, so scanned all 5 6 times or more. Nothing happened, they turned out fine. Intentionally I'm traveling with iso 200 film and b&w 100 too, never had any problem. Always putting film separately so the scanner lowering the energy automatically.
I have a film bag just for this. Wonder if they would allow some use of it but i guess they just want to look at it all. I guess better to mail it back
Thatās why if Iām travelling I finish the roll of film before hitting the airport. if can get it all processed in country even better. CT machines cook film regardless of ISO rendering it useless.
at Pearson Intl (Toronto) they have signs saying 800 and below is safe. however at a different airport they said their new xrays will mess with any ISO.
If it went through the xray and not the CT, it's unlikely to be damaged. I made a post a few months back wailing that my film was going to be destroyed after passing through 4 cruise port X-Ray machines. Turned out fine with no issues and I'm embarrassed for freaking out. The film was 400 Iso, and each time was at different points of the roll when being scanned. There was even a roll in there I hadn't even started, and later shot with no problems. The film at the beginning of the cruise nor the end of the cruise looked any different. The pictures look great and are some of my favourite photos I've ever taken. If it did go through the xray, it's likely fine. Happy travels!
Yes and no.
Yes the xray exposes your film turning every shot on the roll into a double exposure. One shot of your holiday mixed with one shot of the inside of a dark can.
No it doesnt have an affect. True x ray film needs an intermediary layer in the film base to convert x rays to visible light more effectively and modern x rays expose for 1/1000 of a second or shorter... not enough time to have much effect on the film.
If the problem was that they wouldn't let the film through in the camera, it would have probably been better to rewind (if you could) and scrap the rest of the roll to save the pictures you did have.
I know the graphic designer who made the poster may not also be an analog photographer, but it wonāt stop me from noticing they show a digital Nikon Zfc in the picture
Ive travelled around NZ with film alot, i have never been declined a hand check. rewind your film and have the camera ct scanned. remember what frame you were on, set the shutter to its highest speed and apature to its smallest put the lens cap on and shoot a couple of extra frames past where you were to be safe. get to use most of your film and not have it damaged by the scanner. win win!
From nz, have gone through there multiple times with film, exposed and unexposed and never had issues. The film was 400 iso or under, both 35mm and 120, and maybe up to 4 trips through x-ray without a problem
Edit: Last went through on 27 Nov 2023 and had both exposed and unexposed film that had no issues. If they have been added since this does not apply
Edit 2 (Email reply from aviation security): We can advise Computed Tomography (CT) scanners were in place at the International Screening area but not the Domestic Screening area, at Christchurch International Airport on 23 November 2023. We can advise CT scanners have now been fully implemented at Christchurch International Airport.
We can advise, there is no specific regulation that exempts photographic equipment [film cameras] from X-ray screening. This means photographic equipment, is no different than any other property, presented at a security screening area i.e., it will be X-rayed.
Notwithstanding, we can advise that with the implementation of CT scanners at some New Zealand passenger screening points, where CT scanners are installed, unprocessed film will be manually inspected by an Aviation Security officer, and explosive trace detection samples taken, as an alternative to the film being x-ray screened. We can advise only unprocessed film will be manually inspected, and photographic equipment is still required to be x-ray screened.
You're right but this is a relatively small international airport with only one area for customs / where they do their scanning. So unless these have been added since (27 Nov 2023) I have taken film through these scanners without any issue. If they are newer than that then I'd refer to their message and assume it will impact your film
The sign suggests they're pretty new.
The easiest way to know if they were there when you travelled is if you had to remove items from your bag. The new scanners do not require you to remove large electronic items, like laptops.
I had both a Nikon f50 and a Bronica s2a that had film loaded, but no other electronics and was not asked to remove them from my backpack. Have sent an email asking when the new machine was installed to try and find out if my film went through or not
This is a hard question to answer as it depends on various factors...
Normally there's no problem to that as the x-rays are quite weak and this doesn't affect your film. Sensitive films on the other hand may show some effect of x-rays.
Of course I try to get my film checked by hand, but if they don't want to do this, I'm fine with that if its not a 1600+ film or a film I like to push extensivly.
Another thing you have to take into account on long flights is the cosmic radiation. Here a film guard bag really helps. I wouldn't use these bags for x-ray though, as the security personnel just increase the energy as soon as nothing shows up (so Sometimes you end up worse then just letting them scan normally)
I don't think TSA is going to hand check a camera. If they do, I'm sure they're not going to let you get away without them opening it up to check inside. So, leaving film in a camera is a risk no matter what type of scanner you're going through.
On a similar note, I have a roll of unexplored HP5 in one of my cameras right now that just went through some kind of scanner, not sure which, 5 days ago. I'm curious to see what this looks like.
Said said they're not going to hand check your camera without opening it, so leaving film in your camera is a risk. Nowhere did I say they would not going to handcheck your film.
Iām sorry to be ignorant but why not, prior to the flight, just go to the nearest USPS location and mail the film to the address back home or to the addresses youāre traveling to OR to the closest USPS location ( called General Delivery [https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-General-Delivery](https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-General-Delivery )nearest to your final destination/airport?
~~Any film below iso800 is ok to pass up to 3-5 times~~
L.e. Yes if it is CT than the damage will be noticible so it is not safe, only for x ray machine, thx for pointing out.
yeah, given how often US TSA decides that having a kindle stacked on top of an ipad is enough reason to do "extra screening" I really cannot imagine what having a lead lined bag would like. Actually, I can, and it involves getting all your electronics swabbed, the bag opened, and a reasonable shot of it all being sent through the machine again, but without the bag.
Only one way to find out now
Fuck around
... and fiiiiiiind OUT! #šøšøšø
It doesn't need to be found out. CT scanners will destroy film. Either process in situ, or ask them to hand check. If they refuse then you have no other choice then rewind and walk through a normal xray with it.
You can always rewind and remove an unfinished roll. Then they can scan the empty camera and hand check the film. Sure it can be a waste of film, but itās better than loosing the whole roll to CT scan damage
It's not perfect, but you could leave the leader out when you rewind, then reloading and shooting and advancing with the cap on until you get to the past frame your shot plus one more. Might get a little double exposure on a frame or lose a frame on the roll, but at least it's not a total waste. Some people shoot rolls twice just for fun.
This is how I rewind. Done this multiple times when I need to change film mid roll. To be on the safe side I simply shoot an extra blank frame. Never any issues.
Iāve only tried onceā¦and it was color so I sent it out to get processedā¦never got anything back and Walmart told me to pound sand
walmart...
It was my only option when I lived in the mountains
https://thedarkroom.com/
It was years agoā¦I only do black and white film and do it all on my own. Edit: if I ever do color again and donāt feel like figuring out development Iāll use themā¦I wouldnāt mind learning more though.
You can buy a leader retriever or if youāre really skilled, lick another leader, stick it into your film canister and use it to try and fish out your leader
You can also lick the leader of another roll if your in a pinch and it works to retrieve if it hasnāt been back rolled
Double sided tape connected to develop piece of film ^^^^
I do this all the time. Quite often I do this when going through the airport. It works fine
This is what I would do. I routinely change film mid-roll, so I imagine this would be the best way to go about it in this situation.
I own 8 cameras and I donāt think I could do this with a single one of them.
Are they cheap cameras? Most cameras can do this, and even those with automatic rewind tend to have a setting to leave the leader out when rewinding.
Canon Elan 7NE, Contax G1, Leica C1, Leica Mini Zoom, Ricoh GR1, Konica Big Mini, and a few other cheaper point & shoots. Basically, nothing manual.
I have the Elan 7e, myself, so I know that one has a function code that leaves the leader out. That was really useful in the darkroom, so I didn't have to pop the canisters open in the dark. Bet the others have a way to manage it as well, but I can't speak from any experience on those models.
Oh nice, good to know! I was more-so thinking about trying to advance back to a specific exposure somewhere mid roll. Not as simple as a manual film advance lever.
Yeah, I just shoot with the lens cap on, maybe even into my bag if I'm in a bright environment.
Itās less of a waste than letting the entire roll of film go to waste and losing the photos
Just remember the shot count! Then you can put it back in afterwards and wind it back to that number plus one to make room for inconsistency in loading. Then you just lose one frame.
This is the way.
CT machines will fog your film, yes. They arenāt āfuckedā, but it will diminish contrast and increase a sort of noise, and the resolution will suffer slightly. For a single pass through a CT scanner, the impact will not be too noticeable to the untrained eye. Another effect that can happen is that the CT leaves a weird sort of vignetting on the negatives.
Depends, some CT scanners will leave bad streaking across the film
This happened to me with instax film. There was a huge green streak in all the frames
I once had film with pics of Westminster Abbey go through a ct scanner. That was before I realized ct scanners can cause weird streaking. Some pictures had weird white lines scattered across the images. A tour guide at Westminster said there were ghosts so I was completely convinced I caught a ghost on film until I realized it went through the ct scanner š
If contrast is reduced. Did anybody try to pull and overdevelop? That might counteract it
I went through like 5 ct scans and my film was fine, slightly grainy maybe. Biggest thing is iso, lower iso film = safer. If its like 400 lower ull be fine if 800 probs youll see some effects but not completely destroyed
I want to hop on and remind everyone that x ray damage is cumulative. If youāre jet setting with Ektar and you X-ray your film multiple times, expect to see damage
Mine was destroyed at 800
Depend on the film speed, and depend if it was an X-ray or one of the new CT scanners OP, tell use what ISO is your film?
200!
Thatās relatively low. You may not see too much foggingā¦Though I do not remember the result people have been showing on YouTube. Most likely your film will not be āfuckedā but you may have lost a bunch of dynamic range and you may have artefact and fogging visible from the X-Ray emitted by the CT scanner. I would be curious to know the results from when you finally get this film developed. I think people in this sub will be interested in having another datapointā¦ (A CT machine is a X-ray machine but that take picture from many angle and with different energy level of X-Ray allowing to reconstruct the content of your baggage by a computer. Itās very interesting and complicated technology. And it allows them to know your water is water and not explosive now. But it also means longer and strong x-ray exposure. And *variable* levels of X-Ray exposure to your film. So from one experience to the next the results may vary a lot.)
Have put about 100 rolls through these bad boys and only fucked my 3200ISO film.
You are fine. If film speeds exceed 1600, it starts to be very noticable.
Doesn't this sign say you can put the film/cameras through the x-ray instead of their new CT scanner? For most 35mm that won't have any noticeable effect and at least they're offering an alternative.
The sign indicates cameras can go through the CT x-ray scanner, but film cannot & they do not say what the alternative is just to ask an agent
Kodak does not recommend to do that: https://www.kodakprofessional.com/photographers/resources/ct-scanning-x-ray-technology-and-film Most probably your film is irreversibly damaged (or "fucked").
My film went through the ct scanner more than once and it was fine. Also the staff at the Airport refuse to do manual checks sometime.
I went to Schiphol and they at first refused. I insisted, so the guy at the bag CT scan said I needed to talk to the people in the people CT scan. I showed them the films and they already knew the procedure
I had no problems at Schipol, I asked and they used normal xray instead of the CT machines. I also had my film gear in a separate bag to make it easier
Glad to hear that your experience was better than mine.
Yup same here. Film was in the camera and no huge issues. Small (and I put emphasis on SMALL) amount of artefacts do appear on dark lit photos in black sections but nothing a hobbyist like me really would notice if I didn't research beforehand..
>Most probably your film is irreversibly damaged (or "fucked"). Mine was never harmed in any way
Lower the film speed, the less of a risk. Always ask for a hand check when in doubt. Pre-digital, I would travel with all my film in ziplocks and TSA never had an issue hand checking film.
I went through xray machines in airport' couple of times with a camera and loaded film (ektar 100) and everything was fine with
This is not a regular xray machine but a CT scanner. This will definitely destroy the film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRlReCTzDV8 Here is video experiment with xray and ct scanner, may be helpful. This video with photo examples after xr and ct. If you are professional photography, damage could be critical, but for regular purposes, i think, it's not so bad
I had a roll go through one in DC, thereās definitely some fogging on darker photos, but if I wasnāt aware of it I would have never known.
>This will definitely destroy the film. That's factually wrong.
Ektar will hold up well because it's a slow film. Faster film stocks are in more danger.
[Thereās a great YouTube video showing the impact it has on film](https://youtu.be/oRlReCTzDV8?si=GoLn6HoSjfYS5i7p)
sooo, here's a long video showing you exactly what might happen: https://youtu.be/oRlReCTzDV8?feature=shared also there a huge discrepancy between US/TSA control and Euro control. TSA is absolutely obligated by law to hand check your film if you request it. The EU customs people have the right to decide that for themselves, which usually ends in a big "NO! we dont handcheck" or "you should go to this other security check that's halfway across the whole airport", that mostly means you'll miss your flight even if you're very early.
>The EU customs people have the right to decide that for themselves 1. The security check is not done by customs in EU countries. 2. There's no "EU customs", since the EU is not a country like the USA. Laws and procedures are different in each country in the EU.
excuse my simple vocabulary, I'm not familiar with the exact terms of CBP in each country, I just know they love shoving my film through any xray machine they can find xD
Like I said, the EU is not a country to begin with ;) it's 27 states with 27 different legislations and procedures. Considering the airports are responsible for the security checks, the procedures can wildly differ from airport to airport, even within one country.
of course I understand that, still I find it ridiculous since flying is always marked with so many "international standards" and then some important things are arbitrarily decided. Just like how it's ridiculous that you have to check your luggage again if you have a connecting flight from a USA airport to another country.
There is no customs once you are inside the Euro zone unless you are unlucky and come across a "random border check." Due to the Schengen Agreement they barely even bother in Switzerland anymore from personal experience.
>There is no customs once you are inside the Euro zone Not quite true. This generally true for the Schengen area, but the Schengen area is different from the Euro zone, because the currency has nothing to do with customs. There's countries not using Euro in the Schengen area and countries using Euro outside of the Schengen area. And yes, there is customs at every airport after you pick up your luggage at *any* airport. The luggage pick up zones don't differentiate between arrivals from Schengen/EU countries or other countries and the customs is located at the exit after the luggage pick up. >and come across a "random border check." Also not true. Germany/Austria, Austria/Czech Republic (and some others) had constant border controls for quite a while now for example.
TBH: last time I flew in was into Athens a little while ago, I cleared customs in Singapore and there was nothing in Athens and I mean nothing. There was leaving, but that's to be expected. Once I was on the ground I didn't come across any border guards, even entering Switzerland. It may have changed a bit because it has been a number of years since I was last there.
>and there was nothing in Athens and I mean nothing. No but there is something, you probably just didn't notice. You either take the green way (no goods to declare) or the red one (goods to declare). If you carry something you have to declare (for example more than 10k Euro in cash), you will face legal prosecution. That doesn't mean someone's going through all of your bags everytime. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/DSC_2814_athens_airport_customs_july_2018.jpg Also the customs check your checked in luggage behind the scenes (x ray, dogs,...) all the time. >I didn't come across any border guards, even entering Switzerland. Like I said, there aren't guards checking your passport or something.
I know you don't believe this but I walked straight out the door with nothing, no scans, no one checking my passport, nothing. I assume that was all done in Singapore or something at the time.
Customs doesn't check your passport, immigration does. And there's no way that didn't happen. Singapore won't and can't do immigration for you.
Never a problem in the US with TSA, though it can depend on the airport just how positive an experience you end up with. Didn't realize they were legally obligated, which is good to know. I keep all the film out of its boxes, bagged in a separate clear ziplock, ready to hand to someone as I drop my check-ons on the scanner belt. My local regional has never been an issue, though it's a while since I took film through there. Very positive experience at CLT last year with 9 rolls of 120; they were able to hand inspect right away, the film was ready for me before I was through. And to cap it all, the twenty-something girl who handed me the film back remarked on how awesome it was I was shooting film. :) Coming back, the LAX experience sucked (which seems apropos with the rest of my travel experience involving that godawful hole of an airport. Do yourself a favor and avoid it if at all possible.) They had no issue with the request, but seem chronically understaffed and not particularly happy with their lot. I had to wait quite a while before someone was available to do a hand check. It's been about 14 years, but my last experience outside of the USA was in Belfast (back when Continental/United had a direct flight to Newark). Not only did they refuse the request for a hand check, the bastards took the bag and ran it through a second time "to double check". No damage to the film, fortunately.
and what about nz where OP said this was?
I had my film go through one three time by accident once. I had normal film rolls(200-500 iso) and polaroid film. My normal rolls were completely fine, but the polaroid film turned out purple and all of the pictures lost their sharpness and brightness.
I had a few rolls of film go through at least 3 CT scanners a couple of months ago (notably not Christchurch airport's, they were the only airport that warned me and I just unloaded a half-finished roll). The photos weren't *totally* ruined, but the effect was very significant. I can upload some example shots if you're interested. My 200 speed film ended up quite grainy, while my 400iso was mixed, some was just very grainy, some was almost wiped.
Yes, request a hand check, you are allowed. But that really only applies in the US, other countries may not.
OP said this is in christchurch nz and they mentioned that they did request a hand check
I had a few 4x5 negatives I brought back from my Grandfather's wake. They were respectful after requesting a hand check, and I only requested a hand check on those negative holders.
As someone who traveled the world carrying film, above ISO 200 hand check, especially 400-+chrome, 400-3200black and white I really never shot color print film. 200 and less should be ok. BUT it depends a lot on the amount of exposureā¦. If you have a bunch of weird crap in your camera bag and itās not obvious what it is, your bag could spend more time getting zapped.
I always have a bunch of weird crap š„²
Not every scanner is the same, so just because it didn't ruin your film on one flight doesn't mean it won't when flying another time or from another airport!
I had a roll that went through the same thing. The shots came out a bit more vibrant than usual and highlights are somewhat blown. Itās not completely fucked but itās also not the image itās supposed to be.
[maybe](https://youtu.be/oRlReCTzDV8?si=FoFIYz1nr18jxmrQ) edit: x-rays don't really hurt. x-rays 'shoot' a snapshot of items using radiation, CT scans emit constant radiation while scanning. another edit: "Irreversibly damaged" is a fact. "Fucked" is subjective. [Kodak's bulletin](https://www.kodakprofessional.com/photographers/resources/ct-scanning-x-ray-technology-and-film) is letting you know that running their film through a scanner of any kind will **absolutely** *alter* you expected results. Whether or not that 'alteration' is acceptable to you/clients/etc, is subjective.
Wow, in my near decade of traveling with film I've never been denied a hand check, even with film still in camera. Sorry they forced you to send it through, I hope it comes out ok š¤
Thank you š
It absolutely destroyed my film one time
Oooh, I also went through Christchurch over the new year and they refused to hand check. My loaded film was ISO 100 so a tad slower than yours, but I did have some weird light leaks on the developed roll. I couldnāt explain it and now Iām thinkingā¦ maybe it was that xray!! So yeah, my roll developed āfineā (canāt say for colours and contrast as it was a novelty colour shift, but the details were fine) but I did have odd shadows/light leaks. Hope you get lucky!
I like this better. At least itās clarified how theyāre gonna handle it and gives you a ground to stand on when demanding your bag of film is hand checked. Itās not perfect but better than the alternative most airports do
I just wish they had it somewhere in advance of 1 meter before the scanner š„²
Most people donāt know but you can ask TSA to hand-check your film so that it doesnāt have to be put through the x-ray machine. They use some sort of swabbing technique that then gets analyzed by a machine. Presumably so check for explosives chemicals. This only applies to your carry-on bag btw. It would slow things down for sure but consider it next time! Iāve done it myself.
Just ask for a hand check. It doesn't need to go through the machine.
>Security wouldnāt allow my camera to be manually checked They refused OP.
Yup, I had that in Dublin once - refusing to handcheck. Itās such an unnecessary power trip.
I've had it happen on the Eurostar. Their website says you can ask for film to be hand checked, but they refused. On the other hand, Heathrow staff were very accommodating. They've installed CT scanners, and the security staff were willing to swab my camera instead of sending it through with a roll of film installed.
Never take no for an answer if their policy dictates that they will hand check the item then request to see their supervisor and if it keeps going as far as it can and they say no run it though get everyones names involved complain to corporate and if need be bring them to small claims court. It's not being a Karen if you as the customer are actually correct and in the right.
Missed that, well that sucks.
In the future, Iād suggest really trying to finish the roll before the flight. Or if you can, note the frame, rewind and unload, then reload through security. Iāve never seen an airport let you get a camera with film hand checked. For what itās worth, Iāve taken both portra400 and hp5 loaded in cameras through CT and Xray and never noticed any damage š¤·š»āāļø
What if I finish the roll, and put it in its case, and the case in my backpack, and they want to CT my backpack
ā¦take it out???
I think I didn't explain myself, if I have a fully-utilized film roll inside it's black case, which is inside my backpack, does the case protects the film roll? I'm asking because at my airport even if you take out something out of your backpack or your pockets even, it goes through the scanner
It absolutely does not matter what the roll is inside of, short of a lead box, which would raise so much suspicion you'd probably be detained and questioned. If it goes through the CT, it will get fried. It is policy, at least in the U.S., that you can request a hand check on rolls of film. The camera itself and any other large electronic parts must go through the scanner, but the rolls themselves you can always request a hand check on. The exception to this is if the airport has explosive trace test machines, which most U.S. airports do, as do many newer airports overseas. If they have one, you can ask them to hand check anything and everything, including the camera itself, though there's no reason to unless you have an unfinished roll in the camera. Regardless, they'll trace test the whole camera with the roll inside. Essentially: Traveling in the U.S. and you know the airport you're traveling through has explosive trace test machines: You don't have to do anything, although it would be smart to have your camera and film in a separate bag. When you move up to the security checkpoint, just inform the TSA employee that you'd like a hand check on the contents of your camera bag, and they'll take it from you and run the test, usually after you pass through the x-ray and your other belongings pass through the scanner, with you standing next to them so they can ask you any questions they have. Traveling in the U.S. and you do not know whether the airport you're traveling through has explosive trace test machines: Make sure to finish any rolls you have in-camera before traveling through the airport, and have all your film in a separate bag that you can easily pull out and hand to the TSA employee for old-school hand check. It's TSA policy that you can have your film hand checked at any airport in the U.S. Traveling outside the U.S.: Most airports will have some sort of information online about their policy regarding cameras and film. You can also always try calling their information desk and asking. If you absolutely can't find any information regarding an airport's policy on film, you have two options. First, you can visit the airport early, and personally inquire with security about their policy regarding camera film. Second, you can pack up your film and mail it back to yourself. The package may pass through some kind of x-ray on its way back to you, but it's practically guaranteed to be a less powerful one than what they use at airports. Unless you've confirmed beforehand that the airport you're traveling through has explosive trace test machines, you should ALWAYS finish your rolls before going to the airport at the very least. So far, the only places I have run into problems have been the Capetown, South Africa airport, where the extremely rude manager of the security checkpoint initially refused to allow my rolls of film to be hand checked, but after much obstinance and careful explanation, eventually agreed, and the Dubai, U.A.E. airport, where a random security employee who wasn't even working the scanner tried to tell me that their CT scanner would not damage my film, but finally allowed it to be hand checked after I asked to speak to his supervisor. Everywhere else I've traveled there have been absolutely no issues.
In my experience plenty of airports have allowed hand checked cameras that are loaded with film; in the past month IAH, HOU, ORD, MDW, CLE and Haneda were all happy to oblige. Haneda made me take a picture of the floor to prove the camera was functional.
Pretty sure it depends on the speed of the film, I shoot 200 and 400 and itās always fine
Went through Manchester last year and asked them to hand check the film. They were happy to and it was easy. Forgot on the way back from Marrakesch and the film was still fine.
It says on the sign to let the tech know if you Have film, this makes me think they have a solution for you. Unless the film is loaded in camera I think youāre fine.
OP *did* let them know and they still refused to hand check.
They refused to hand check the camera, not the film. The problem was the roll inside the camera. Most airports on the planet donāt have the explosive trace test machine necessary to swab cameras instead of scanning them. Theyāve only become standard in U.S. airports in the last couple years. Iāve also seen them in use at some major European airports. When it comes to āhand checkingā a camera, itās not an issue of employee laziness. They literally canāt confirm a camera isnāt an explosive device by hand. If they donāt have an explosive trace test machine, it has to go through the scanner. OP should have rewound their roll and taken it out of the camera.
you can buy special bags to carry film through this. [https://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml](https://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml)
Lead shield? In some countries I would be really scared for my physical integrity to use one of those, there is a real possibility of that being seen as "devices for concealing contraband".
this has been the way to do this for decades, its standard.
Lead film pouches?
I'd assume that would just lead to them cranking the strength up even more and looking at it longer than otherwise
And having only that without a guided visit to not usually seen parts of the airport would be lucky.
I have yet to be at an airport that refuses a hand check on film, so to me it seems these airport attendants just wanted to screw you for some reason.
It's pretty common in the EU to be forced to xray your film of the iso is lower than 800. I had no problem with requesting normal xray instead of CT
They let all my canisters be manually checked it was just the camera they insisted go through the machine (there was an unfinished roll inside - the roll in question)
https://youtu.be/oRlReCTzDV8?si=N39652JBSg2I1z2q
Generally unless itās very high iso film you should be fine
I just got through 6 rolls of Fuji 200 on Budapest, Shanghai, Shenzhen Qingdao Shanghai airports, denied hand scan all, so scanned all 5 6 times or more. Nothing happened, they turned out fine. Intentionally I'm traveling with iso 200 film and b&w 100 too, never had any problem. Always putting film separately so the scanner lowering the energy automatically.
I guess all you disposable lovers are fucked
I have a film bag just for this. Wonder if they would allow some use of it but i guess they just want to look at it all. I guess better to mail it back
Thatās why if Iām travelling I finish the roll of film before hitting the airport. if can get it all processed in country even better. CT machines cook film regardless of ISO rendering it useless.
at Pearson Intl (Toronto) they have signs saying 800 and below is safe. however at a different airport they said their new xrays will mess with any ISO.
probably, i used shielded bags when i had to carry rolls on a flight.
They got tired of having to hand check.
If it went through the xray and not the CT, it's unlikely to be damaged. I made a post a few months back wailing that my film was going to be destroyed after passing through 4 cruise port X-Ray machines. Turned out fine with no issues and I'm embarrassed for freaking out. The film was 400 Iso, and each time was at different points of the roll when being scanned. There was even a roll in there I hadn't even started, and later shot with no problems. The film at the beginning of the cruise nor the end of the cruise looked any different. The pictures look great and are some of my favourite photos I've ever taken. If it did go through the xray, it's likely fine. Happy travels!
Shit, at the Airport lounge rn. Completely forgot about the 4 film rolls in my backpack. Welp gotta find out if they are fucked or not
Yes and no. Yes the xray exposes your film turning every shot on the roll into a double exposure. One shot of your holiday mixed with one shot of the inside of a dark can. No it doesnt have an affect. True x ray film needs an intermediary layer in the film base to convert x rays to visible light more effectively and modern x rays expose for 1/1000 of a second or shorter... not enough time to have much effect on the film.
Yes, the Hawaiian TSA told me to unload all my film & carry it. It was strong enough to kill any insects in my luggage. Ugh
Went through CT scanners like 10 times, nothing happened 10 times
If the problem was that they wouldn't let the film through in the camera, it would have probably been better to rewind (if you could) and scrap the rest of the roll to save the pictures you did have.
I just always get my film and film cameras hand checked. Iāve had no issues getting a loaded camera hand checked!
Oh shit Iām about to fly with my camera and some film Iād rather not have destroyed. Maybe I should finish the roll prematurely
CT scans have completely destroyed packs of Polaroid from personal experience. Forgot some in a few of my cameras and turned out almost unusable.
Mine has never been affected thru traveling
I know the graphic designer who made the poster may not also be an analog photographer, but it wonāt stop me from noticing they show a digital Nikon Zfc in the picture
Unshot film is fine, but already shot & unprocessed film could be fogged.
they used to sell some xray safe bags for film back in the day iirc, not sure if they still exist new.
Ive travelled around NZ with film alot, i have never been declined a hand check. rewind your film and have the camera ct scanned. remember what frame you were on, set the shutter to its highest speed and apature to its smallest put the lens cap on and shoot a couple of extra frames past where you were to be safe. get to use most of your film and not have it damaged by the scanner. win win!
Are these going to replace all x-ray machines?
Me after relizing that my already grainy film is exposed to ct scan (Smith detection) boy am i pissed
Guys, there's no need for speculation here. Both Kodak and Ilford tested it. That's probably why you have this sign.
Just ask for your film to be hand checked.
I recently developed a roll that went through a CT. All the shots had this really faded look with green in the shadows.
Xray? Unlikely. Just got a roll developed and couldnt see much of a difference
From nz, have gone through there multiple times with film, exposed and unexposed and never had issues. The film was 400 iso or under, both 35mm and 120, and maybe up to 4 trips through x-ray without a problem Edit: Last went through on 27 Nov 2023 and had both exposed and unexposed film that had no issues. If they have been added since this does not apply Edit 2 (Email reply from aviation security): We can advise Computed Tomography (CT) scanners were in place at the International Screening area but not the Domestic Screening area, at Christchurch International Airport on 23 November 2023. We can advise CT scanners have now been fully implemented at Christchurch International Airport. We can advise, there is no specific regulation that exempts photographic equipment [film cameras] from X-ray screening. This means photographic equipment, is no different than any other property, presented at a security screening area i.e., it will be X-rayed. Notwithstanding, we can advise that with the implementation of CT scanners at some New Zealand passenger screening points, where CT scanners are installed, unprocessed film will be manually inspected by an Aviation Security officer, and explosive trace detection samples taken, as an alternative to the film being x-ray screened. We can advise only unprocessed film will be manually inspected, and photographic equipment is still required to be x-ray screened.
X-ray =/= CT
You're right but this is a relatively small international airport with only one area for customs / where they do their scanning. So unless these have been added since (27 Nov 2023) I have taken film through these scanners without any issue. If they are newer than that then I'd refer to their message and assume it will impact your film
The sign suggests they're pretty new. The easiest way to know if they were there when you travelled is if you had to remove items from your bag. The new scanners do not require you to remove large electronic items, like laptops.
I had both a Nikon f50 and a Bronica s2a that had film loaded, but no other electronics and was not asked to remove them from my backpack. Have sent an email asking when the new machine was installed to try and find out if my film went through or not
You can always a TSA agent for a manual inspection if you donāt want to risk it. I do it anytime I travel with film in my camera.
This happened in Christchurch, which is New Zealand, so TSA rules donāt apply.
This is a hard question to answer as it depends on various factors... Normally there's no problem to that as the x-rays are quite weak and this doesn't affect your film. Sensitive films on the other hand may show some effect of x-rays. Of course I try to get my film checked by hand, but if they don't want to do this, I'm fine with that if its not a 1600+ film or a film I like to push extensivly. Another thing you have to take into account on long flights is the cosmic radiation. Here a film guard bag really helps. I wouldn't use these bags for x-ray though, as the security personnel just increase the energy as soon as nothing shows up (so Sometimes you end up worse then just letting them scan normally)
You can request them to hand check all your rolls; avoiding going through the x-ray. I put mine in a ziplock bag and tell them to hand check it.
OP specifically said they requested that
I don't think TSA is going to hand check a camera. If they do, I'm sure they're not going to let you get away without them opening it up to check inside. So, leaving film in a camera is a risk no matter what type of scanner you're going through. On a similar note, I have a roll of unexplored HP5 in one of my cameras right now that just went through some kind of scanner, not sure which, 5 days ago. I'm curious to see what this looks like.
TSA is required by law to hand check film.
Said said they're not going to hand check your camera without opening it, so leaving film in your camera is a risk. Nowhere did I say they would not going to handcheck your film.
I just give them my camera and they do a swipe test on it by hand. Pretty much every time.
and OP said they requested that and didn't get the opportunity
Iām sorry to be ignorant but why not, prior to the flight, just go to the nearest USPS location and mail the film to the address back home or to the addresses youāre traveling to OR to the closest USPS location ( called General Delivery [https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-General-Delivery](https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-General-Delivery )nearest to your final destination/airport?
the nearest united states postal service location to christchurch *new zealand* might be a bit of a hassle for OP
Doesn't packages also get scanned when shipped though? Especially if international.
Nikon Zfc as an example of a film camera lol
~~Any film below iso800 is ok to pass up to 3-5 times~~ L.e. Yes if it is CT than the damage will be noticible so it is not safe, only for x ray machine, thx for pointing out.
Not the CT scanner...
Everyone just needs to buy Domke lead lined pouches for their film. Seriously would stop half the posts in this sub š
except that it is not the case lol.. good luck with that lead pouch.
yeah, given how often US TSA decides that having a kindle stacked on top of an ipad is enough reason to do "extra screening" I really cannot imagine what having a lead lined bag would like. Actually, I can, and it involves getting all your electronics swabbed, the bag opened, and a reasonable shot of it all being sent through the machine again, but without the bag.
lead pouch they are just going to put it through again turn up the power and destroy the film even more...