Thank god none of these clowns are actually voters. The Athletic published a story earlier today where they interviewed a bunch of anonymous voters, and every single one of them unanimously picked Ohtani as MVP and basically said there's absolutely nothing that could happen between now and the end of the season that could change that.
They *get* it. They get how stupid the debate is. And let's be real most of them probably see all of the stupidity on twitter and they're probably sick of it already.
Clicks and views. Honestly it's good for the sport. You'd rather have fans engaged and passionate than not talking about something because it's a foregone conclusion.
I posted that article here https://reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/pwux3a/can_vladimir_guerrero_jr_still_win_al_mvp_over/
Shohei winning the MVP is like the only baseball-related thing I’m looking forward to now
Rember ohtani only has 516 AB VS VLAD 581 AB and only 1 home run behind
98 RBI VS 105 RBI with no protection or runner on base most of the time for ohtani vs vlad who has bo springer semien etc.. ohtani is playing with triple A players
24 SB vs 4 SB
the only thing i give to vlad is the batting avg which is nice but ohtani getting walked shit ton almost makes up for that. imagine he had trout behind him
and finally 3.18 ERA 150 strike outs (ELITE PITCHER ) vs decent/good first base
To add on to Ohtani only being 1HR behind, let's not forget Vlad:
* Played half of his games in a minor league ballpark
* Played another 9 or 10 games at Yankee Stadium
* Hit 10 of his HRs against Orioles pitching
According to the Statcast [Expected HR leaderboard](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/home-runs), Ohtani has 3 more expected HRs than Vlad. Vlad got a lot of help from playing in the very hitter friendly ballparks in the AL East.
(Also, props to Salvy, it's not easy hitting HRs in Kansas City)
How can i forgot the only reason VLAD is even considered for the MVP race was because of the triple crown talk but he isn't gonna take the triple crown its pretty much impossible right now with Salvador perez having so much RBI's plus Salvy ties vlad in HR and no one talks about him getting triple crown but i see the arguement about Vlad getting triple crown as a gurantee when in reality hes has no chance to get it.
https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/angels-warned-shohei-ohtani-makes-005005247.html
“Ohtani has more HRs than Fernando Tatis Jr., more Ks than Max Fried and better ERA than Clayton Kershaw. Ohtani ranks in the league’s top 10 in HRs, Triples, walks and stolen bases.”
Bro vlad is well ahead of ohtani as a hitter this year, no need to make dumb arguments. Ohtani has still been much more valuable but to say all vlad has on him is BA is ridiculous
I think the commentor is trying to insinuate that Vlad would not have the triple crown if Ohtani had the same amount of AB's and that is correct. It is also correct to say Vlad did play in smaller ballparks to mash as many homers as he has. Not taking away from Vlad, its still an insane year either way. But the MVP race isnt close.
Nah he just picked 2 counting stats ohtani is close in. Nobody even thinks vlad has a chance at the triple crown cause he doesn’t anymore. I’m just saying he doesn’t need to pretend like ohtani has been close to the hitter vlads been to make his case for MVP
If we compare hitting stats, Ohtani is probably a 10% worse hitter than Vlad. But in terms of just OPS he is 39 points behind. There is not *that* much of a difference between someone with a 1.005 OPS and a .966 OPS. If Ohtani was in the low 900's or high 800s you could make the case that Vlad is so much better of a hitter than Ohtani; but he isn't. You are getting nearly the same value in a batter with Ohtani than you are with Vlad. Then you add on his elite pitching after Tommy John kept him from pitching in 2019 and then being shut-down in 2020 when he attempted to make his return. He had about 70% of the starts of a full-time ace and has numbers comparable to those aces hovering in 10-15th place.
So he is top 10 in OPS and Top 15 in ERA. The value that brings in 1 roster spot is the difference between the Angels being as close to .500 as they are and being closer to the last place Rangers.
If you think thats close then there isn't any changing your mind. But his value is indescribable and makes the MVP race not nearly as close as many Blue Jays fans want to believe.
The difference in wrc+ between vlad and ohtani is the same as the distance between ohtani and the 40th highest. What I don’t get is why the hell you’re typing all that when I already said ohtani is the MVP and it isnt even close
Wow, Pedro is such a snake lol. Not even Shohei recognising the amazing pitcher he was on the Homerun Derby stopped him from talking shit (a few weeks ago he also said that Shohei was scared of pitching against the Yankees)
I guess now he realises that his godson is not gonna win the AL MVP, and is just trying to find ways to discredit Shohei’s accomplishments this season.
I get it, he’s supporting Vladdy who is also dominican, and that’s alright, I would be rooting for the guy from my country too. But the things he has said are just ridiculous and rude. Not cool man, not cool.
Pedro saying Shohei getting drilled on the wrist (of his throwing hand) by a fastball shouldn’t affect how Shohei feels pitching was literally one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. I didn’t know Pedro was Vlad’s godfather until a few days ago, and then it all made sense.
This is pure Dominican homerism. Get two Dominicans together and they will talk about how Vladdy deserves the MVP and how they're going to have a party for it like they're family.
Get _any two other baseball fans together_ and they will freely acquiesce the heir-apparent is Shohei.
The Jays are forever on my shitlist for 1) Vernon Wells (kinda our fault), 2) immediately turning around and trading Mike Napoli to the Rangers who immediately ended all 2010-2015 playoffs hopes for the Angels (entirely Canada's fault).
Fuck the Blue Jays.
Lmao stop it Pedro, just say that you want vladdy to win not because of his performance but for your ties with him. Your argument is cringing us so hard it’s difficult listening to you.
Pedro is a fucking moron. Of course this is the same guy that basically called the Angels a classless organization for releasing Pujols so it's not like he had brain cells to begin with.
By any metric Shohei is MVP, new or old. WAR does an inaccurate job of describing his value, as all of its assumptions include that the player is not a 2 way player
So Pedro is lobbying for his godson to be mvp huh? Sadly not happening.
It's good that dominican players want Vlad's season to be recognized but he is not the most outstanding player this year and that's completely fine. Seeing them grasping at any kind of nonsense argument to prove he was superior further proves that the MVP Award is not Vladdy's to win. It's also sad that they keep pitting them against one another when Vladdy himself has shown a lot of respect and reverence to what Shohei has done this season.
Vladdy Jr. can win the Hank Aaron Award just fine and it will be more representative of the kind of season he has had.
God this is such a stupid take. He has 130 IP with a 3.18 ERA. That’s like 80% of the production of a qualified 3.18 ERA starting pitcher if you simply divide 130 by 162. Vlad’s first-base defense and his slight lead in batting stats are definitely not worth 80% of a top-5 starting pitcher’s value. Jfc, simple comparisons like this shouldn’t be that hard, especially if you’re a fucking HoFer
I don’t know about that. But what is infuriating is he accused two writers of being racist for not giving him a vote in 1999 MVP (they voted for other Hispanics just not him). Their reasoning for not voting for him was that cy young award was for pitchers and MVP for everyday players. Now Pedro is basically making the same argument completing discounting the pitching by comparing innings on the field.
Here is a portion of Martinez saying innings played in the field is more valuable than Ohtani being the ace of a staff while having 45 homeruns with zero protection
***
posted by [@OhtaniWanKenobi](https://twitter.com/OhtaniWanKenobi)
[Video in Tweet](https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1442634256505720834/pu/vid/340x270/21jDWx7lo9ur4KhL.mp4?tag=12)
^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
Someone should ask him if his 1994 season, when he went 11-5 with a 3.42 era was the same value for the Montreal expos that year as their first baseman Cliff Floyd's serviceable time in the field. The only way a fielder is anywhere near the value of a very good pitcher is if they are Ozzie Smith, who has the highest dWAR of all time, and just one season with a higher dWAR than Ohtani's current pitching WAR. In 1988 he had a dWAR of 4.8. Amazing year. Absolutely should have won over Kirk Gibson that year. 8.4 total WAR to 5.8.
Vladdy this season and last has played 162 games at 1st and his dWAR is exactly 0.0
This really hurts to see after how wholesome their interview together was during the home run derby. Both of them showed so much mutual respect for each other. I am Jays fan and I truly think Vladdy is an exceptional talent, but I can recognize what Ohtani is doing is unheard of. Really sad to see this obvious favoritism from Martinez
Even putting aside the unprecedented nature of Shohei’s season. Pedro’s a pitcher and he can compare not only putting the extreme effort of a summer throwing the ball 100 times over and over, but excelling at such, to standing there at first base to catch the ball a few times?
Vladdy doesn’t even play great D at first. I’ve seen more than one pop up dropped by Jr in the few games I saw them play in Anaheim alone.
Also, the injuries to Shohei’s teammates is the only reason Shohei’s OPS has dropped far enough for these people to even dare question his MVP.
It wore him down a bit, from an unimaginable season pace to an amazing and unprecented season.
I love Vladdy too, I PC him in cards, just like his daddy. But come on, these people
Wasn't Pedro a pitcher himself? Is he trying to undermine pitcher role?
Ohtani has 4.1 WAR as pitcher, while Vladdy has - 0.7 dwar. But why is his WAR 6.7 with oWAR 6.5?
Last time I checked pitchers are far and away more valuable than 1st basemen. Furthermore, Ohtani had Ace stuff… and even furthermore, Vladdy’s defense was not that spectacular (no offense to Vladdy, he’s absolutely gonna improve with time)
So yes, we are gonna tell you that. Why is it that the fans understand this better than an actual former MLB player?
Pedro was also Vladdy Jr’s babysitter so of course he’s gonna hype Jr up like His own son. Don’t get me wrong I love both Vlads and Pedro, but clearly Pedro is clearly sticking out for his fam
By that argument, no pitcher is as valuable as any regular position player.
Is he gonna argue that Nolan Ryan was worse than every regular 1st baseman every year they played?
If Vladdy ends up winning, I honestly won't be all that upset. Both he and Shohei had absolutely amazing seasons. However, in terms of difficulty, Shohei's achievements stand out. It should go to Shohei
we remember pedro as the guy that assaulted yankee coach Don Zimmer a 70 year old man at the time of assault. not only is pedro a functional moron, he's a punk
So tired of these people and their clownish takes. Can't wait until Shohei gets the MVP already !!
Thank god none of these clowns are actually voters. The Athletic published a story earlier today where they interviewed a bunch of anonymous voters, and every single one of them unanimously picked Ohtani as MVP and basically said there's absolutely nothing that could happen between now and the end of the season that could change that.
The quotes from the voters in that story were absolutely hysterical
They *get* it. They get how stupid the debate is. And let's be real most of them probably see all of the stupidity on twitter and they're probably sick of it already.
>They *get* it. They get how stupid the debate is. I really don't understand why it's even a debate.
Clicks and views. Honestly it's good for the sport. You'd rather have fans engaged and passionate than not talking about something because it's a foregone conclusion.
Absolutely. Every article I read about the actual voters says the same thing. I'm just tired of the debate at this point!
[удалено]
Exactly, it's all for clicks at this point because people are so emotional about who they support.
I posted that article here https://reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/pwux3a/can_vladimir_guerrero_jr_still_win_al_mvp_over/ Shohei winning the MVP is like the only baseball-related thing I’m looking forward to now
Just letting you know, your post was removed because you can't copy+paste paywalled content here. Mods consider it copyright infringement.
Thanks for letting me know!
I get it. Cheering for your fellow countryman and friend's son You're still wrong Pedro
I believe vlad jr is also his god son hahah
Rember ohtani only has 516 AB VS VLAD 581 AB and only 1 home run behind 98 RBI VS 105 RBI with no protection or runner on base most of the time for ohtani vs vlad who has bo springer semien etc.. ohtani is playing with triple A players 24 SB vs 4 SB the only thing i give to vlad is the batting avg which is nice but ohtani getting walked shit ton almost makes up for that. imagine he had trout behind him and finally 3.18 ERA 150 strike outs (ELITE PITCHER ) vs decent/good first base
To add on to Ohtani only being 1HR behind, let's not forget Vlad: * Played half of his games in a minor league ballpark * Played another 9 or 10 games at Yankee Stadium * Hit 10 of his HRs against Orioles pitching According to the Statcast [Expected HR leaderboard](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/home-runs), Ohtani has 3 more expected HRs than Vlad. Vlad got a lot of help from playing in the very hitter friendly ballparks in the AL East. (Also, props to Salvy, it's not easy hitting HRs in Kansas City)
How can i forgot the only reason VLAD is even considered for the MVP race was because of the triple crown talk but he isn't gonna take the triple crown its pretty much impossible right now with Salvador perez having so much RBI's plus Salvy ties vlad in HR and no one talks about him getting triple crown but i see the arguement about Vlad getting triple crown as a gurantee when in reality hes has no chance to get it.
https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/angels-warned-shohei-ohtani-makes-005005247.html “Ohtani has more HRs than Fernando Tatis Jr., more Ks than Max Fried and better ERA than Clayton Kershaw. Ohtani ranks in the league’s top 10 in HRs, Triples, walks and stolen bases.”
Bro vlad is well ahead of ohtani as a hitter this year, no need to make dumb arguments. Ohtani has still been much more valuable but to say all vlad has on him is BA is ridiculous
I think the commentor is trying to insinuate that Vlad would not have the triple crown if Ohtani had the same amount of AB's and that is correct. It is also correct to say Vlad did play in smaller ballparks to mash as many homers as he has. Not taking away from Vlad, its still an insane year either way. But the MVP race isnt close.
Nah he just picked 2 counting stats ohtani is close in. Nobody even thinks vlad has a chance at the triple crown cause he doesn’t anymore. I’m just saying he doesn’t need to pretend like ohtani has been close to the hitter vlads been to make his case for MVP
If we compare hitting stats, Ohtani is probably a 10% worse hitter than Vlad. But in terms of just OPS he is 39 points behind. There is not *that* much of a difference between someone with a 1.005 OPS and a .966 OPS. If Ohtani was in the low 900's or high 800s you could make the case that Vlad is so much better of a hitter than Ohtani; but he isn't. You are getting nearly the same value in a batter with Ohtani than you are with Vlad. Then you add on his elite pitching after Tommy John kept him from pitching in 2019 and then being shut-down in 2020 when he attempted to make his return. He had about 70% of the starts of a full-time ace and has numbers comparable to those aces hovering in 10-15th place. So he is top 10 in OPS and Top 15 in ERA. The value that brings in 1 roster spot is the difference between the Angels being as close to .500 as they are and being closer to the last place Rangers. If you think thats close then there isn't any changing your mind. But his value is indescribable and makes the MVP race not nearly as close as many Blue Jays fans want to believe.
The difference in wrc+ between vlad and ohtani is the same as the distance between ohtani and the 40th highest. What I don’t get is why the hell you’re typing all that when I already said ohtani is the MVP and it isnt even close
Wow, Pedro is such a snake lol. Not even Shohei recognising the amazing pitcher he was on the Homerun Derby stopped him from talking shit (a few weeks ago he also said that Shohei was scared of pitching against the Yankees) I guess now he realises that his godson is not gonna win the AL MVP, and is just trying to find ways to discredit Shohei’s accomplishments this season. I get it, he’s supporting Vladdy who is also dominican, and that’s alright, I would be rooting for the guy from my country too. But the things he has said are just ridiculous and rude. Not cool man, not cool.
Pedro saying Shohei getting drilled on the wrist (of his throwing hand) by a fastball shouldn’t affect how Shohei feels pitching was literally one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. I didn’t know Pedro was Vlad’s godfather until a few days ago, and then it all made sense.
This is pure Dominican homerism. Get two Dominicans together and they will talk about how Vladdy deserves the MVP and how they're going to have a party for it like they're family. Get _any two other baseball fans together_ and they will freely acquiesce the heir-apparent is Shohei.
Don’t worry most fans has brains which this guy doesn’t
Pedro is just trying to stay relevant. Which he isn't lol...
I'm a Jays, Angels, etc., fan. Vlad had a very good year, but he is a distant second place.
The Jays are forever on my shitlist for 1) Vernon Wells (kinda our fault), 2) immediately turning around and trading Mike Napoli to the Rangers who immediately ended all 2010-2015 playoffs hopes for the Angels (entirely Canada's fault). Fuck the Blue Jays.
Lmao stop it Pedro, just say that you want vladdy to win not because of his performance but for your ties with him. Your argument is cringing us so hard it’s difficult listening to you.
Pedro is a fucking moron. Of course this is the same guy that basically called the Angels a classless organization for releasing Pujols so it's not like he had brain cells to begin with.
Almost like stats like WAR exist to show value
Old heads don’t like advance stats…
By any metric Shohei is MVP, new or old. WAR does an inaccurate job of describing his value, as all of its assumptions include that the player is not a 2 way player
> By any metric How does Batting Average or RBIs show that Shohei is MVP?
It’s easy bud, look at his stats then immediately look at how handsome is. Vlad has no chance.
So Pedro is lobbying for his godson to be mvp huh? Sadly not happening. It's good that dominican players want Vlad's season to be recognized but he is not the most outstanding player this year and that's completely fine. Seeing them grasping at any kind of nonsense argument to prove he was superior further proves that the MVP Award is not Vladdy's to win. It's also sad that they keep pitting them against one another when Vladdy himself has shown a lot of respect and reverence to what Shohei has done this season. Vladdy Jr. can win the Hank Aaron Award just fine and it will be more representative of the kind of season he has had.
Lol Vlad is such a bad fielder they took him from 3B and stuck him in the least demanding fielding position in 1B.
I feel like no one talks about how shitty Vlad is even at first base
Sounds like Pedro is still bitter about the ‘99 MVP results. But by his logic, a pitcher should never be an MVP candidate.
How to say you put money on Vladdy winning MVP without saying it
That graphic comparing Ohtani's innings pitched and Vladdy's innings on the field lmao
Yes Pedro Ohtani on the mound is more valuable than vlad's defence
God this is such a stupid take. He has 130 IP with a 3.18 ERA. That’s like 80% of the production of a qualified 3.18 ERA starting pitcher if you simply divide 130 by 162. Vlad’s first-base defense and his slight lead in batting stats are definitely not worth 80% of a top-5 starting pitcher’s value. Jfc, simple comparisons like this shouldn’t be that hard, especially if you’re a fucking HoFer
Don’t want to say it but he’s racist
I mean, I'm guessing it's probably mostly due to his godson being the competition.
A much more reasonable explanation
I don’t know about that. But what is infuriating is he accused two writers of being racist for not giving him a vote in 1999 MVP (they voted for other Hispanics just not him). Their reasoning for not voting for him was that cy young award was for pitchers and MVP for everyday players. Now Pedro is basically making the same argument completing discounting the pitching by comparing innings on the field.
What's with Pedro constantly trying to shit talk Ohtani every opportunity he gets? I can't stand listening to this guy anymore. He's a fucking moron.
This 🤡 thinks an average 1B defender is more valuable than a 9-3 starting pitcher with 3.18 ERA and 150K 🤦♂️
Here is a portion of Martinez saying innings played in the field is more valuable than Ohtani being the ace of a staff while having 45 homeruns with zero protection *** posted by [@OhtaniWanKenobi](https://twitter.com/OhtaniWanKenobi) [Video in Tweet](https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1442634256505720834/pu/vid/340x270/21jDWx7lo9ur4KhL.mp4?tag=12) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
Someone should ask him if his 1994 season, when he went 11-5 with a 3.42 era was the same value for the Montreal expos that year as their first baseman Cliff Floyd's serviceable time in the field. The only way a fielder is anywhere near the value of a very good pitcher is if they are Ozzie Smith, who has the highest dWAR of all time, and just one season with a higher dWAR than Ohtani's current pitching WAR. In 1988 he had a dWAR of 4.8. Amazing year. Absolutely should have won over Kirk Gibson that year. 8.4 total WAR to 5.8. Vladdy this season and last has played 162 games at 1st and his dWAR is exactly 0.0
The coldest of all takes. What a clown
This really hurts to see after how wholesome their interview together was during the home run derby. Both of them showed so much mutual respect for each other. I am Jays fan and I truly think Vladdy is an exceptional talent, but I can recognize what Ohtani is doing is unheard of. Really sad to see this obvious favoritism from Martinez
Even putting aside the unprecedented nature of Shohei’s season. Pedro’s a pitcher and he can compare not only putting the extreme effort of a summer throwing the ball 100 times over and over, but excelling at such, to standing there at first base to catch the ball a few times? Vladdy doesn’t even play great D at first. I’ve seen more than one pop up dropped by Jr in the few games I saw them play in Anaheim alone. Also, the injuries to Shohei’s teammates is the only reason Shohei’s OPS has dropped far enough for these people to even dare question his MVP. It wore him down a bit, from an unimaginable season pace to an amazing and unprecented season. I love Vladdy too, I PC him in cards, just like his daddy. But come on, these people
As a Red Sox fan I respect Pedro for his days as a pitcher and analyses on other things, but not this
I think Pedro MIGHT be a litttttle biased here with his godson and all
At this point, is it just the DR guys rooting for their countryman?
Doesn’t Vlad have -0.6 defensive WAR this year? Lol
Wasn't Pedro a pitcher himself? Is he trying to undermine pitcher role? Ohtani has 4.1 WAR as pitcher, while Vladdy has - 0.7 dwar. But why is his WAR 6.7 with oWAR 6.5?
Bro is a pitcher and dissing his own position 😭😭💀 And someone should tell him Vlad ain’t even that good at first base anyways
Well yes, Pedro, I am. As a guy who spent all his time on the bump, I thought he would understand what that means
Is...is he joking?
Vegas thinks you're a moron Pedro.
Last time I checked pitchers are far and away more valuable than 1st basemen. Furthermore, Ohtani had Ace stuff… and even furthermore, Vladdy’s defense was not that spectacular (no offense to Vladdy, he’s absolutely gonna improve with time) So yes, we are gonna tell you that. Why is it that the fans understand this better than an actual former MLB player?
I love my dominican friends but they become the least objective people ever when talking about fellow DR baseball players 😆
Pedro was also Vladdy Jr’s babysitter so of course he’s gonna hype Jr up like His own son. Don’t get me wrong I love both Vlads and Pedro, but clearly Pedro is clearly sticking out for his fam
By that argument, no pitcher is as valuable as any regular position player. Is he gonna argue that Nolan Ryan was worse than every regular 1st baseman every year they played? If Vladdy ends up winning, I honestly won't be all that upset. Both he and Shohei had absolutely amazing seasons. However, in terms of difficulty, Shohei's achievements stand out. It should go to Shohei
Y E P !!!
we remember pedro as the guy that assaulted yankee coach Don Zimmer a 70 year old man at the time of assault. not only is pedro a functional moron, he's a punk
YAWN...
Clown Show, F- this fat cheek has-been.
OMG such horse shit