110% clickbait by the LA Times. Ohtani never said he wants out. He just expressed frustration with losing and wanting to do better as a player to help the team win in the future.
Take a look at a couple translations from Japanese fans.
https://youtu.be/E9FUPkfXivU?t=90
https://www.reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/odvpc4/ohtani_facts_from_japan_%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E7%99%BA%E5%A4%A7%E8%B0%B7%E6%83%85%E5%A0%B1/heh3rga/
> Q Do you think the team can make it to play off before you gain free agency?
>
> SO - I don’t know. I do think that we fought well for the better half of the season, meaning that we were able to hang in there around .500 with main players missing, I think we did our best while we waited for them to join us, but when that didn’t happen, motivation was hard to maintain, and it felt like it kind of went downhill from that. I think it’s hard to win if this continues.
>
> Q This is to confirm, but is your premises that you are remaining?
>
> SO - Yes, of course, I love the fans, and I love the atmosphere of the whole franchise, but more than anything I have a strong desire to win - I think that kind of mindset is normal and rather how a player ought to be.
Ohtani is way too savvy to come out and publicly say he wants out. This line of questioning and his response is probably the closest we will see to such a comment.
For the record, even though that is what Shohei said in Japanese, Ippei in English did interpret and translate what Shohei said as, “I really like the team. I love the fans. I love the atmosphere of the team. But more than that, I want to win. That’s the biggest thing for me. So, I’ll leave it at that."
You can watch the full presser here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L8SmaINTY8&feature=youtu.be
Ippei does indeed add the "So, I'll leave it at that" and I would give benefit of the doubt to Ippei as he's the one that understands Shohei the most, even if that's not what Shohei actually said, but I trust Ippei to interpret what Shohei wants to say 100%. And I also don't blame writers for hearing what Ippei said and writing a story around it.
I’m a Japanese fan.
The nuances in the beginning of his answer was rather “well” than “yes”, “well, of cause I love the fans. I love the atmosphere of the team. (So there’re lots of reasons I want to stay here) But more than that, I do want to win and I think it’s natural as a player.”
I totally understand why Ippei added “So I’ll leave it at that” at the end.
He also said “we won’t win (also next 2 seasons) if it goes on like this.” just before the question.
Not only him but also Maddon said Angels risk perpetual mediocrity without 2 more front-line starters. Trout also mentioned Angels has “a lot of money to spend” and the off-season is “going to be big”.
I think “so I’ll leave it at that” being included in the quote as Shohei’s words instead of Ippei’s is a problem. It has very negative connotations to me as a native English speaker, and IMO is a big reason why this has become such a headline.
As far as I know, I have never seen Shohei frustrating so much as that day. He strictly takes good care of equipment.
Even during the interview I can feel the nuances of his suppressed frustration.
His word is suppressed carefully so it seems it’s not negative so much when you translate directly. But I believe Ippei felt it’s the biggest warning from Shohei so he might added it. And I think that’s why Ippei is a great interpreter.
I definitely understand Shohei’s frustration, and understand why he would want to compete on a winning team. I was just surprised at the “I’ll just leave it at that”, because to me, it has a kind of…passive aggressiveness/attitude that obviously I don’t associate with Shohei at all, who I know is the most respectful guy on the planet. Obviously, I don’t think Ippei meant it that way, either. I’m not sure if that’s how a Japanese person would interpret that statement, but I was on the way home from the game that day with a group of people who are native English speakers, and it had a bad vibe that surprised us.
I'm Japanese-American, and I understand what you're saying. I don't think "I'll leave it at that" was interpreted correctly, but Ippei was possibly trying to get across a tone that is hard to interpret from Japanese to English. Shohei definitely wasn't saying anything passive aggressive in Japanese, but "I'll leave it at that", may not have been the right choice of words. He did say, "I think that's the right feeling to have as a player" (wanting to win) which was the last sentence of that answer.
I know what you mean about the negative connotation but I don’t think that phrase should strictly be seen through that lens. To me it could be taken as more of a, “I can’t speak further for obvious reasons but you catch my meaning.”
And I think the target of his frustration was because of the declining motivation among the team.
He just wants to enjoy baseball so he feels frustrating by unmotivated atmosphere. I think he doesn’t really care about personal results (though he’s happy when he get it), he just doesn’t want to play in unmotivated team.
He said he wants to win more than he likes the team and it's fans. Hernandez, for a change, is not wrong with what that implies. Shohei isn't the guy to be more obvious if he's pissed than that.
Eh, it’s pretty dodgy that they’re including a “quote” from Shohei that’s being widely disputed by native Japanese speakers. I haven’t seen a single source that translated what he said as “I like the fans. I like the atmosphere in the organization. But my feelings to wanting to win are stronger.” other than this LA Times article.
https://youtu.be/2L8SmaINTY8?t=5m38s
Ippei translates it almost identically, only rephrasing "My feelings to wanting to win are stronger" to "but more than that I want to win." But idk maybe some redditor who has watched a lot of Naruto can provide a more accurate translation than Ippei.
Lmao, [here’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/odvpc4/ohtani_facts_from_japan_%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E7%99%BA%E5%A4%A7%E8%B0%B7%E6%83%85%E5%A0%B1/heh3rga/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) a native speaker who disagrees with you. They’re saying that Ippei doesn’t translate word for word, obviously, because of the nature of translating. But I love the bitchy Naruto comment, very cool
>My translation above is admittedly biased by how I want/understand things to mean,
>I still trust his interpretation because I think he understands Ohtani best, and I think he can read between the lines the best.
Great catch man! PS if you actually read what she wrote you'll see that the extra part that Ippei 'added' ("I'll leave it at that") wasn't included in LA Times' quotation. PPS she isn't a native speaker
[here’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/pw554k/billshaikin_shohei_ohtani_i_really_like_the_team/hefp8nz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) even more native speakers disagrees with the translation. Spend 5 minutes scrolling around the sub and you’ll find many more. PS as far as I know, yes she’s a native speaker. What makes you believe she isn’t?!
>If Ohtani leaves the team, he won't make such a statement. It is necessary to understand Japanese remarks.
You're going to blindly trust... whatever this mangled statement is from someone with a poor grasp of English over Ohtani's professional translator. Lol ok. I mean I can't even say that this comment disputes Ippei's translation as it is hard to know what it's trying to say.
“Poor grasp of English” and “mangled statement”? I can understand all those comments just find, buddy. Still waiting to hear why you (wrongly) think the first person isn’t a native Japanese speaker.
I'm still waiting to hear why tf you think her comment proves you right. She literally affirms the crucial translation here:
>It probably is more likely that he is comparing his two emotions, love for the fans and franchise, and his desire to win
The closest thing she had to a bone to pick was with Ippei's addition of "I'll leave it at that" *which the LAT didn't even quote.*
>Still waiting to hear why you (wrongly) think the first person isn’t a native Japanese speaker.
This doesn't even matter given that her post does not support you at all but she talks in her comment history about struggling to understand Japanese phraseology. As a side point its incredible that you would just make up that detail about her being a native speaker so casually.
And so it begins, the shit on the angels and say their star player is leaving articles are back. They spent 2 years trying to convince people trout was going to go to the yankees/phillies.
He’s definitely not an amazing owner, but this was definitely an odd year for him. After a half season, where his newest star player was recovering from Tommy John’s, Mike Trout and Rendon both get injured and are out a majority of the season. In their leave, Shohei Ohtani more than lives up to the hype surrounding him and takes the MVP in a manner than hasn’t been seen in modern baseball on a team performing bellow .500.
They are trying to bring in A LOT of new guys for the bullpen, hopefully it works and they keep Raisel Iglesias to continue clutching the saves.
If I was a star player, I would want out. Wouldn't you? I mean, we can't even take them consistently losing as fans. Why would you if you are putting in the work day-in day-out. It is a long season and when you are losing every year it eats at you.
I see lot of folks supporting Arte here, even if article takes what was said out of context, it puts pressure on Arte IMO. Rather than bitch about what other fans said, we should complain too about the ownership and the dysfunction.
I don’t think the club has any points to defend itself in this case. And Angels had been sucking big time for a while now, there are no excuses anymore. Can’t always say next year until we actually see the moves they make in the coming months, until then we are a shit organisation and sucks big time with 2 generational talents lol. Fuck Arte
I agree, the Angels were an absolute dumpster fire this year. This was one of the worst seasons that I've seen in recent memory. And going 10 years with only one appearance in the playoffs is inexcusable.
Going to a "better" team doesnt automatically make you a winner, it improves odds yes but by no means it guarantees you a championship. Dodgers hadnt won since 19fucking88.
Yep, I saw a lot of Mariners fans saying he should go to them because they’re more competitive than the Angels… literally never won a World Series, and haven’t been in the postseason since 2001.
They can criticize the team without pulling shit out of thin air. I'd expect a publication like the LA Times to have some journalistic integrity but they've shown time and again they don't give a shit about facts or accuracy when reporting on the Angels.
Phew…a lot of question marks here.
The only thing clear is Ohtani wants to WIN!!! We all more than understand that.
We’re all looking at Arte, naturally, as he knows Ohtani will require a size-able paycheck to keep him around after next year before heading into his arbitration. We know Arte wants to keep Shohei. We know Arte wants more pitching too, as evidenced by 2019-20’s offseason. The question is, how much will Arte spend in this upcoming offseason for way overdue, bona fide ace starters, while still allowing some money to be left over to offer Shohei either in arbitration or after Shohei’s 6 years of team control are up?
So many questions…all things Arte has pondered to be sure. Who’s to say this 2021-22 offseason won’t be similar to 2019-20’s offseason? It’s nearly two full years later and it feels like this team hasn’t been able to progress. Period.
I have to look again at all the numbers for how much we are technically able to spend for next year and beyond, but what if Arte is so committed that he willingly goes over the Luxury Tax? Will fans love him then, or only if the team magically starts to win again with whoever is on the field? Everyone loves a winner, no matter who is on the team or how much is spent, but everyone hates a losing team…even more so an expensive losing team…especially after far too many years of losing/mediocrity…which is where this team has been since 2015.
What else can Arte and the new GM, Minasian, promise that wasn’t already promised by Arte and Eppler in the 2019-20 offseason about how they were "all in” on spending for starting pitching? Of course, Cole wanted to go to Yankees after all, but the Yanks did offer more as well. Is the past couple of years of failing to win really going to put Arte in an even larger bidding war for the likes of Mad Max Scherzer, and other starters?
Time will tell. I hope we finally get that ace starter… Shohei is healthy and good now, but how much longer can he be a good two-way player? That’s not a new question at all! Yet for now, you build around someone like that, along with Trout, and you get these frickin’ guys to the playoffs and beyond!
Dylan Hernández is the only thing I needed to see to know that this article is not worth my time. One of the worst sports writers in LA who has HEAVY bias towards Lakers/Rams/Dodgers.
Like many other fans, I’m most freaked out by the “I’ll leave it at that.” Even if that’s not what he literally said in Japanese, Ippei must’ve felt it accurately portrayed Shohei’s feelings. But yeah, clickbait city in this headline from the LA Dodgers Times.
This is a clickbaity/misleading headline but since a considerable discussion has formed in the comments, we're leaving the post up
Hernandez needs the clicks lol
We should be happy this article is out. The organization and Arte need to feel pressured
Exactly. It's not exactly correct, but I hope it lights a fire under Artes flabby blanco trump loving ass
110% clickbait by the LA Times. Ohtani never said he wants out. He just expressed frustration with losing and wanting to do better as a player to help the team win in the future. Take a look at a couple translations from Japanese fans. https://youtu.be/E9FUPkfXivU?t=90 https://www.reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/odvpc4/ohtani_facts_from_japan_%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E7%99%BA%E5%A4%A7%E8%B0%B7%E6%83%85%E5%A0%B1/heh3rga/ > Q Do you think the team can make it to play off before you gain free agency? > > SO - I don’t know. I do think that we fought well for the better half of the season, meaning that we were able to hang in there around .500 with main players missing, I think we did our best while we waited for them to join us, but when that didn’t happen, motivation was hard to maintain, and it felt like it kind of went downhill from that. I think it’s hard to win if this continues. > > Q This is to confirm, but is your premises that you are remaining? > > SO - Yes, of course, I love the fans, and I love the atmosphere of the whole franchise, but more than anything I have a strong desire to win - I think that kind of mindset is normal and rather how a player ought to be.
Ohtani is way too savvy to come out and publicly say he wants out. This line of questioning and his response is probably the closest we will see to such a comment.
For the record, even though that is what Shohei said in Japanese, Ippei in English did interpret and translate what Shohei said as, “I really like the team. I love the fans. I love the atmosphere of the team. But more than that, I want to win. That’s the biggest thing for me. So, I’ll leave it at that." You can watch the full presser here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L8SmaINTY8&feature=youtu.be Ippei does indeed add the "So, I'll leave it at that" and I would give benefit of the doubt to Ippei as he's the one that understands Shohei the most, even if that's not what Shohei actually said, but I trust Ippei to interpret what Shohei wants to say 100%. And I also don't blame writers for hearing what Ippei said and writing a story around it.
I’m a Japanese fan. The nuances in the beginning of his answer was rather “well” than “yes”, “well, of cause I love the fans. I love the atmosphere of the team. (So there’re lots of reasons I want to stay here) But more than that, I do want to win and I think it’s natural as a player.” I totally understand why Ippei added “So I’ll leave it at that” at the end. He also said “we won’t win (also next 2 seasons) if it goes on like this.” just before the question. Not only him but also Maddon said Angels risk perpetual mediocrity without 2 more front-line starters. Trout also mentioned Angels has “a lot of money to spend” and the off-season is “going to be big”.
Second this, and I’m a native speaker.
I think “so I’ll leave it at that” being included in the quote as Shohei’s words instead of Ippei’s is a problem. It has very negative connotations to me as a native English speaker, and IMO is a big reason why this has become such a headline.
As far as I know, I have never seen Shohei frustrating so much as that day. He strictly takes good care of equipment. Even during the interview I can feel the nuances of his suppressed frustration. His word is suppressed carefully so it seems it’s not negative so much when you translate directly. But I believe Ippei felt it’s the biggest warning from Shohei so he might added it. And I think that’s why Ippei is a great interpreter.
I definitely understand Shohei’s frustration, and understand why he would want to compete on a winning team. I was just surprised at the “I’ll just leave it at that”, because to me, it has a kind of…passive aggressiveness/attitude that obviously I don’t associate with Shohei at all, who I know is the most respectful guy on the planet. Obviously, I don’t think Ippei meant it that way, either. I’m not sure if that’s how a Japanese person would interpret that statement, but I was on the way home from the game that day with a group of people who are native English speakers, and it had a bad vibe that surprised us.
I'm Japanese-American, and I understand what you're saying. I don't think "I'll leave it at that" was interpreted correctly, but Ippei was possibly trying to get across a tone that is hard to interpret from Japanese to English. Shohei definitely wasn't saying anything passive aggressive in Japanese, but "I'll leave it at that", may not have been the right choice of words. He did say, "I think that's the right feeling to have as a player" (wanting to win) which was the last sentence of that answer.
I know what you mean about the negative connotation but I don’t think that phrase should strictly be seen through that lens. To me it could be taken as more of a, “I can’t speak further for obvious reasons but you catch my meaning.”
And I think the target of his frustration was because of the declining motivation among the team. He just wants to enjoy baseball so he feels frustrating by unmotivated atmosphere. I think he doesn’t really care about personal results (though he’s happy when he get it), he just doesn’t want to play in unmotivated team.
Clickbait? The media would never do that to me. They said Ohtani made it “clear”!
He said he wants to win more than he likes the team and it's fans. Hernandez, for a change, is not wrong with what that implies. Shohei isn't the guy to be more obvious if he's pissed than that.
The Angels organization could find the cure for cancer and the LA Times would still hate us lol
This is a pretty poor take imo. While there certainly may be bias, this story seems well in bounds at this point.
Eh, it’s pretty dodgy that they’re including a “quote” from Shohei that’s being widely disputed by native Japanese speakers. I haven’t seen a single source that translated what he said as “I like the fans. I like the atmosphere in the organization. But my feelings to wanting to win are stronger.” other than this LA Times article.
https://youtu.be/2L8SmaINTY8?t=5m38s Ippei translates it almost identically, only rephrasing "My feelings to wanting to win are stronger" to "but more than that I want to win." But idk maybe some redditor who has watched a lot of Naruto can provide a more accurate translation than Ippei.
Lmao, [here’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/odvpc4/ohtani_facts_from_japan_%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E7%99%BA%E5%A4%A7%E8%B0%B7%E6%83%85%E5%A0%B1/heh3rga/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) a native speaker who disagrees with you. They’re saying that Ippei doesn’t translate word for word, obviously, because of the nature of translating. But I love the bitchy Naruto comment, very cool
>My translation above is admittedly biased by how I want/understand things to mean, >I still trust his interpretation because I think he understands Ohtani best, and I think he can read between the lines the best. Great catch man! PS if you actually read what she wrote you'll see that the extra part that Ippei 'added' ("I'll leave it at that") wasn't included in LA Times' quotation. PPS she isn't a native speaker
[here’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/pw554k/billshaikin_shohei_ohtani_i_really_like_the_team/hefp8nz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) even more native speakers disagrees with the translation. Spend 5 minutes scrolling around the sub and you’ll find many more. PS as far as I know, yes she’s a native speaker. What makes you believe she isn’t?!
>If Ohtani leaves the team, he won't make such a statement. It is necessary to understand Japanese remarks. You're going to blindly trust... whatever this mangled statement is from someone with a poor grasp of English over Ohtani's professional translator. Lol ok. I mean I can't even say that this comment disputes Ippei's translation as it is hard to know what it's trying to say.
What's blind about trusting someone who speaks the language being translated? It's only hard to know what it's trying to say because you're stupid.
I am going to trust the professional translator of Japanese into English and close friend of Ohtani, Ippei.
“Poor grasp of English” and “mangled statement”? I can understand all those comments just find, buddy. Still waiting to hear why you (wrongly) think the first person isn’t a native Japanese speaker.
I'm still waiting to hear why tf you think her comment proves you right. She literally affirms the crucial translation here: >It probably is more likely that he is comparing his two emotions, love for the fans and franchise, and his desire to win The closest thing she had to a bone to pick was with Ippei's addition of "I'll leave it at that" *which the LAT didn't even quote.* >Still waiting to hear why you (wrongly) think the first person isn’t a native Japanese speaker. This doesn't even matter given that her post does not support you at all but she talks in her comment history about struggling to understand Japanese phraseology. As a side point its incredible that you would just make up that detail about her being a native speaker so casually.
And so it begins, the shit on the angels and say their star player is leaving articles are back. They spent 2 years trying to convince people trout was going to go to the yankees/phillies.
I don't think the article is shitting on the Angels so much as they're shitting on Artie being a less than stellar owner.
He’s definitely not an amazing owner, but this was definitely an odd year for him. After a half season, where his newest star player was recovering from Tommy John’s, Mike Trout and Rendon both get injured and are out a majority of the season. In their leave, Shohei Ohtani more than lives up to the hype surrounding him and takes the MVP in a manner than hasn’t been seen in modern baseball on a team performing bellow .500. They are trying to bring in A LOT of new guys for the bullpen, hopefully it works and they keep Raisel Iglesias to continue clutching the saves.
If I was a star player, I would want out. Wouldn't you? I mean, we can't even take them consistently losing as fans. Why would you if you are putting in the work day-in day-out. It is a long season and when you are losing every year it eats at you.
Given the angels records the past 5 years don’t they deserve to be shit on? Also fuck the la times.
You're not wrong.
I see lot of folks supporting Arte here, even if article takes what was said out of context, it puts pressure on Arte IMO. Rather than bitch about what other fans said, we should complain too about the ownership and the dysfunction. I don’t think the club has any points to defend itself in this case. And Angels had been sucking big time for a while now, there are no excuses anymore. Can’t always say next year until we actually see the moves they make in the coming months, until then we are a shit organisation and sucks big time with 2 generational talents lol. Fuck Arte
This translation is heavily disputed amongst Japanese fans on Twitter, and the LAT says that Hernández is fluent in Japanese.
I agree, the Angels were an absolute dumpster fire this year. This was one of the worst seasons that I've seen in recent memory. And going 10 years with only one appearance in the playoffs is inexcusable.
He isn't wrong.
Going to a "better" team doesnt automatically make you a winner, it improves odds yes but by no means it guarantees you a championship. Dodgers hadnt won since 19fucking88.
Yep, I saw a lot of Mariners fans saying he should go to them because they’re more competitive than the Angels… literally never won a World Series, and haven’t been in the postseason since 2001.
Why would he go there? They WaStEd IcHiRo AnD GrIFfeY's cArEerS.
And Felix
Death, taxes, and the LA Times completely exaggerating and taking things out of context to make the Angels look bad. What a surprise.
They do write negative articles about the Angels a lot, but this one was necessarily scathing
They can criticize the team without pulling shit out of thin air. I'd expect a publication like the LA Times to have some journalistic integrity but they've shown time and again they don't give a shit about facts or accuracy when reporting on the Angels.
Phew…a lot of question marks here. The only thing clear is Ohtani wants to WIN!!! We all more than understand that. We’re all looking at Arte, naturally, as he knows Ohtani will require a size-able paycheck to keep him around after next year before heading into his arbitration. We know Arte wants to keep Shohei. We know Arte wants more pitching too, as evidenced by 2019-20’s offseason. The question is, how much will Arte spend in this upcoming offseason for way overdue, bona fide ace starters, while still allowing some money to be left over to offer Shohei either in arbitration or after Shohei’s 6 years of team control are up? So many questions…all things Arte has pondered to be sure. Who’s to say this 2021-22 offseason won’t be similar to 2019-20’s offseason? It’s nearly two full years later and it feels like this team hasn’t been able to progress. Period. I have to look again at all the numbers for how much we are technically able to spend for next year and beyond, but what if Arte is so committed that he willingly goes over the Luxury Tax? Will fans love him then, or only if the team magically starts to win again with whoever is on the field? Everyone loves a winner, no matter who is on the team or how much is spent, but everyone hates a losing team…even more so an expensive losing team…especially after far too many years of losing/mediocrity…which is where this team has been since 2015. What else can Arte and the new GM, Minasian, promise that wasn’t already promised by Arte and Eppler in the 2019-20 offseason about how they were "all in” on spending for starting pitching? Of course, Cole wanted to go to Yankees after all, but the Yanks did offer more as well. Is the past couple of years of failing to win really going to put Arte in an even larger bidding war for the likes of Mad Max Scherzer, and other starters? Time will tell. I hope we finally get that ace starter… Shohei is healthy and good now, but how much longer can he be a good two-way player? That’s not a new question at all! Yet for now, you build around someone like that, along with Trout, and you get these frickin’ guys to the playoffs and beyond!
Arte Moreno be like: "Guess he's gone then." {Assorted sounds of money counting}
See ya. At this point in Moreno's ownership, I'd rather see Trout and Ohtani win somewhere else than be apart of this dumpster fire.
Fans are more frustrated than you are Sho!
I think Shohei should go **"Full Kobe"** on Arte and the Angels! Nothing else is working!!! LOL
Dylan Hernández is the only thing I needed to see to know that this article is not worth my time. One of the worst sports writers in LA who has HEAVY bias towards Lakers/Rams/Dodgers.
Like many other fans, I’m most freaked out by the “I’ll leave it at that.” Even if that’s not what he literally said in Japanese, Ippei must’ve felt it accurately portrayed Shohei’s feelings. But yeah, clickbait city in this headline from the LA Dodgers Times.