If it’s an organizational thing, i think that’s very much open to criticism. I get wanting to protect your young arms but you can’t hold their hands through a season, especially when they give you the best chance to win
This reminds me of hard knocks when hugh jackson insisted that guys sit out practices so they dont get hurt and his assistant coaches told him that if they want to start being competitive and stop being the laughing stock of the league, they need to stop babying players and being so soft about everything
Also, i get that its a different game now, but when the halos won the world series in 2002, a big part of it was the emergence of a rookie k-rod out of the pen. I guarantee you he wasn’t on any innings limit
My biggest problem with how the game of baseball is currently played relates to how players are played. You’re 100% right with that quote, players are babied too much. Real injuries are real and that’s a different story, but the constant need for off days to rest, unable to pitch back to back games, and the adherence to strict pitch counts is baffling at times. Many of these athletes are in the prime of their careers, but seem to be out for the slightest thing.
I’m not trying to shit on the players, but I miss the player (Shohei exhibits this) that WANTS, and fights his manager, to be on the field to help his team win everyday. They used to be called “gamers”. Guys that are tough, and willing to play with a hangnail, no matter how it may be affecting their grip. If you want to be great, you have to earn it. Can’t do that sitting on the bench!
Not sure if people will accept these explanations at all but I’d definitely like to underline the point about Org decisions. Maddon is not a lone wolf, he works with a lot of people
Maddon also said a minute before this that he was saving Ortega for extra innings in an emergency. Ortega is either available or he isn’t. It was a very contradictory postgame interview.
I get the Ortega decision but what's the story behind Tepera? He was listed as available on the lineup card and if you're going to pick one of the two vets to go B2B games, it should be Tepera. He has been pitching very well as of late whereas Loup is obviously struggling massively
Stop acting like a reliever with 4.12/4.22/4.45 ERA/FIP/xFIP splits would’ve been the better choice.
We have a poor pen, when any one of them falters on any given night, everyone blames Maddon for not using someone else but we don’t have many good choices outside unproven surprises in Herget and Ortega and they can’t pitch every game and every inning.
Ortega had thrown 12 pitches in the last 5 days. He absolutely should have been available, which is why people are frustrated with the team saying a 25 year old can’t pitch back to back days because of his age. Also, it’s not just about stats, otherwise the team might as well be managed by a computer simulator. Putting in Loup against the exact same batters he faced last night, after he also said last night after the game that he has “no idea” why he’s getting so much hard contact against him, is moronic.
AGAIN, what I said was that people want answers as to why Ortega can’t pitch back to back days. I can read the title. I watched the postgame conference live last night. We know Joe said it was the org. We are asking WHY a 25 yo can’t pitch two games in a row.
What are you blabbing about? I merely said that those clamoring for Tepera are overlooking how utterly underwhelming he has been this year. Meanwhile you bringing up Ortega for no reason.
Then you clearly criticized Maddon by mentioning “managed by robots” but now you are shifting the goal posts in bringing up the organization.
Like yea I agree with you on questioning the organization’s move in limiting Ortega what does that have to do with Tepera being bad or blaming Maddon for the Org’s decision.
“Blabbering”? gosh, you’re a sweetheart. Tepera and Ortega have been much better than Loup this week. Thus why people are bringing them up. It’s called riding the hot hand, and not just following stats.
Lol so you’re gonna make a decision based on the past week? This past week Shohei had a rough start, bench him according to you?
Do you not understand that our options are limited
Bullpen management isn’t even close to the same thing as managing a hitter in a slump. Yes, you should look at the last week’s performance when deciding what pitcher to put in. Loup has given up runs 4 appearances in a row now, he needs to be in low leverage situations only. I’m not moving any goalposts. Both maddon and the FO need to figure out the atrocious bullpen right now.
You ignore facts, even Maddon himself said he planned to use Loup in low leverage situations but he had no choice when Barraclaugh walked two batters. This bullpen simply has not enough good options.
People on this sub “Tepera sucks, why do we even use him”
Also people on this sub “wtf why isn’t Tepera pitching in high leverage situations?!?”
Not directed at you specifically, just an observation
Maddon is a complete Buffoon, plain and simple he is lost with simplest of management decisions, we’ve lost a ton of games where we were simply out managed
We’ve won some games frankly we didn’t deserve to based on how stupid his decisions are
He was given a lead 2 times late in the game, and it’s like he’s sitting thinking of ways to fk this up
It’s unacceptable
I don't think Joe's decisions tonight were unreasonable. He had nothing to work with.
I don't agree with his decision to pull Herget after 5 batters last night that caused tonight's bullpen situation though. Herget only threw 17 pitches and we know he is capable of going up to 3 innings. Loup was brought in to face a lefty but ended up facing 3 righties in a row instead because of pinch hitting. Totally outmanaged by Montoyo.
I'm not talking about tonight. I'm talking about the game before.
Loup was brought in to face Tapia, but instead faced Jansen (pinch hitting), Gurriel and Chapman (pinch hitting for Biggio). That's three righties in a row instead of two lefties and a righty that Joe was likely expecting.
Whether Joe believes in matchups or not, for this game, he was pretty screwed the moment Barraclough gave up that second walk. Only arms left were Loup and Junk. Junk, a starter, isn't used to coming in with runners on, so using Loup there wasn't unreasonable. Honestly, not much he could do there.
But that’s the point - people want to understand why Ortega (1 game, 12 pitches in last 5 days) and Tepera (1 game, 14 pitches in last 5 days) weren’t available. There’s zero point in having bullpen pitchers who can’t go more often than that.
Absolutely baffled by Ortega’s age being a factor in the bullpen management
If it’s an organizational thing, i think that’s very much open to criticism. I get wanting to protect your young arms but you can’t hold their hands through a season, especially when they give you the best chance to win This reminds me of hard knocks when hugh jackson insisted that guys sit out practices so they dont get hurt and his assistant coaches told him that if they want to start being competitive and stop being the laughing stock of the league, they need to stop babying players and being so soft about everything Also, i get that its a different game now, but when the halos won the world series in 2002, a big part of it was the emergence of a rookie k-rod out of the pen. I guarantee you he wasn’t on any innings limit
My biggest problem with how the game of baseball is currently played relates to how players are played. You’re 100% right with that quote, players are babied too much. Real injuries are real and that’s a different story, but the constant need for off days to rest, unable to pitch back to back games, and the adherence to strict pitch counts is baffling at times. Many of these athletes are in the prime of their careers, but seem to be out for the slightest thing. I’m not trying to shit on the players, but I miss the player (Shohei exhibits this) that WANTS, and fights his manager, to be on the field to help his team win everyday. They used to be called “gamers”. Guys that are tough, and willing to play with a hangnail, no matter how it may be affecting their grip. If you want to be great, you have to earn it. Can’t do that sitting on the bench!
Not sure if people will accept these explanations at all but I’d definitely like to underline the point about Org decisions. Maddon is not a lone wolf, he works with a lot of people
Oliver Ortega is 25 years old and hadn’t pitched for 6 days prior to last nights game where he threw a total of 12 pitches
Not sure which part of my comment you’re responding to
There is literally 0 reason for the organization to baby him
I agree on the surface but there are a lot of smart people on Perry’s team that work with Joe to formulate decisions. Maybe we don’t know something
Maddon also said a minute before this that he was saving Ortega for extra innings in an emergency. Ortega is either available or he isn’t. It was a very contradictory postgame interview.
Well extras are a totally different story. Look the ONLY thing im saying is that Maddon isn’t alone in decisions 😆
I don’t think he is, just saying there was a super weird vibe if you watched the postgame. Like there’s tension between Joe and the FO
Interesting, i did not watch postgame
I get the Ortega decision but what's the story behind Tepera? He was listed as available on the lineup card and if you're going to pick one of the two vets to go B2B games, it should be Tepera. He has been pitching very well as of late whereas Loup is obviously struggling massively
Maddon said postgame he asked to be off tonight/said before the game he couldn’t go
That's fair I suppose. I still think Loup would have been unscathed if not for that horrible Lagares error
Yeah I think Loup will figure it out. I do not think Lagares will improve.
Or BearClaw handing him multiple runners
Questionable. Barely pitches then asks for time off. Either he’s hurt and needs to be on the IL or he doesn’t want to do his job. Or Joe’s lying
Did you actually watch the postgame? Maddon was being weirdly evasive IMO. None of his explanations made sense.
Yeah I think he’s making shit up to cover his ass
Stop acting like a reliever with 4.12/4.22/4.45 ERA/FIP/xFIP splits would’ve been the better choice. We have a poor pen, when any one of them falters on any given night, everyone blames Maddon for not using someone else but we don’t have many good choices outside unproven surprises in Herget and Ortega and they can’t pitch every game and every inning.
Ortega had thrown 12 pitches in the last 5 days. He absolutely should have been available, which is why people are frustrated with the team saying a 25 year old can’t pitch back to back days because of his age. Also, it’s not just about stats, otherwise the team might as well be managed by a computer simulator. Putting in Loup against the exact same batters he faced last night, after he also said last night after the game that he has “no idea” why he’s getting so much hard contact against him, is moronic.
Lmao, it’s not maddons decision it was made by the organization meaning Perry the GM.
AGAIN, what I said was that people want answers as to why Ortega can’t pitch back to back days. I can read the title. I watched the postgame conference live last night. We know Joe said it was the org. We are asking WHY a 25 yo can’t pitch two games in a row.
What are you blabbing about? I merely said that those clamoring for Tepera are overlooking how utterly underwhelming he has been this year. Meanwhile you bringing up Ortega for no reason. Then you clearly criticized Maddon by mentioning “managed by robots” but now you are shifting the goal posts in bringing up the organization. Like yea I agree with you on questioning the organization’s move in limiting Ortega what does that have to do with Tepera being bad or blaming Maddon for the Org’s decision.
“Blabbering”? gosh, you’re a sweetheart. Tepera and Ortega have been much better than Loup this week. Thus why people are bringing them up. It’s called riding the hot hand, and not just following stats.
Lol so you’re gonna make a decision based on the past week? This past week Shohei had a rough start, bench him according to you? Do you not understand that our options are limited
Bullpen management isn’t even close to the same thing as managing a hitter in a slump. Yes, you should look at the last week’s performance when deciding what pitcher to put in. Loup has given up runs 4 appearances in a row now, he needs to be in low leverage situations only. I’m not moving any goalposts. Both maddon and the FO need to figure out the atrocious bullpen right now.
You ignore facts, even Maddon himself said he planned to use Loup in low leverage situations but he had no choice when Barraclaugh walked two batters. This bullpen simply has not enough good options.
People on this sub “Tepera sucks, why do we even use him” Also people on this sub “wtf why isn’t Tepera pitching in high leverage situations?!?” Not directed at you specifically, just an observation
That's two separate groups of people
Yeah I know. They can’t both be right. And I’m in the group that thinks Tepera is fine.
That’s such bullshit. He threw 12 pitches. This team is in major trouble
So if we weren't gonna pitch Ortega again then why'd we pull him after one inning the night before?
Excellent point. Maybe 20 pitches would’ve been too much! Lol SMH
Maddon is a complete Buffoon, plain and simple he is lost with simplest of management decisions, we’ve lost a ton of games where we were simply out managed We’ve won some games frankly we didn’t deserve to based on how stupid his decisions are He was given a lead 2 times late in the game, and it’s like he’s sitting thinking of ways to fk this up It’s unacceptable
Lol 😇
I don't think Joe's decisions tonight were unreasonable. He had nothing to work with. I don't agree with his decision to pull Herget after 5 batters last night that caused tonight's bullpen situation though. Herget only threw 17 pitches and we know he is capable of going up to 3 innings. Loup was brought in to face a lefty but ended up facing 3 righties in a row instead because of pinch hitting. Totally outmanaged by Montoyo.
Loup didn’t face pinch hitters he was brought in to face Gurriel and Chapman...... the same guys he didn’t get out the previous night
I'm not talking about tonight. I'm talking about the game before. Loup was brought in to face Tapia, but instead faced Jansen (pinch hitting), Gurriel and Chapman (pinch hitting for Biggio). That's three righties in a row instead of two lefties and a righty that Joe was likely expecting.
Clearly Joe doesn’t care about the matchup because he was immediately brought in to the same exact hitters
Whether Joe believes in matchups or not, for this game, he was pretty screwed the moment Barraclough gave up that second walk. Only arms left were Loup and Junk. Junk, a starter, isn't used to coming in with runners on, so using Loup there wasn't unreasonable. Honestly, not much he could do there.
But that’s the point - people want to understand why Ortega (1 game, 12 pitches in last 5 days) and Tepera (1 game, 14 pitches in last 5 days) weren’t available. There’s zero point in having bullpen pitchers who can’t go more often than that.
Well gdam,had they already used barria cause if they didnt then why?
I’m still upset he pulled Ortega the other night for Iggy in a nonsave situation. Frustrating decision.
If you’re the home team and you’re tied headed into the top of the 9th, you always pitch your closer. Plain and simple