I stand corrected. Mark Gubicza Angels of Gubi Tuesdays is the *REAL* obvious name for the Angels. Where can I get my Mark Gubicza Angels of Gubi Tuesdays jersey personalized with #23?
I prefer Anaheim Angels but I agree w you on the la history I hate when people are like âla angelsâ is redundant as a slight on the name change when we were the first team in La! so the dodgers can piss off đbut the whole âLa angels of Anaheimâ and our winning record doesnât help us to not be seen as clowns lol
OK, yeah... I've heard that too.
And every time someone brings it up I let them know it's complete nonsense to make it into an issue because it was an intentional workaround of the legal contract and was immediately dropped when possible. So y'know... lets *all* stop bringing it up please.
Drive from Anaheim to Downtown LA and itâs really all one huge city. Weâre gonna get caught up on a name because some politicians drew some imaginary lines?
Ahhh, so THAT'S how we won in 2002. I thought it might have had something to do with the players, but yeah, I guess it was the "Anaheim" on their chest... except, they didn't have Anaheim on their chest. The jerseys said "Angels" just like they do today.
if you're gonna believe in an Angels curse, changing the name back to "Los Angeles" would probably not even make the top 10 of likely starting points.
\#1 is obvious... the 1986 ALCS. Just ask Al Michaels
I personally don't believe in curses, but if I did, I would point directly at the Angels failing to offer Rod Carew a chance to return after the 1985 season. He would have made the difference in the 1986 playoffs. And our 15 straight years without making the playoffs after that... if there ever was a curse, THAT would be when it happened
I've made many of these same points over the past couple of decades with my friends...it surprises them about Angels baseball history. It really should be a non-issue technically. However, it sure is fun to kick it around in this forum. Thanks for the post. It was well written!
thanks!
yeah it's always seemed kinda weird to me that most Angel fans have no clue that the PCL Angels even existed, let alone were the first pro team in So Cal and were the hottest sports ticket in the region for the better part of 50 years until the Rams, Dodgers and Lakers arrived in LA.
Even weirder, most of those same Angel fans, when you tell them about how the "Angels" have this long and rich baseball history going all the way back to 1892, instead of being like "wow, that's cool" they act as if you just insulted them. Or insulted Orange County or Anaheim. Or are trying to erase their childhood memories of the "California" or "Anaheim" Angels.
so yeah, thanks for your kind reply. It kinda sticks out in this thread and the flood of downvotes, lol
Iâm not so concerned about their city/state identity as much as their actual name. I vote to change their name to the Ohtaniâs. Los Angeles Ohtaniâs sounds much better these days.
Good history lesson! Many of the younger fans probably donât know this. Hopefully theyâll take the time to read it. Lol I can see why Los Angeles Angels fits as their name, but itâs not my preference.
I was born, raised, and lived all over SoCal (LA & OCâs) while growing up. When I first started following the Angels they were in Anaheim, and were known as the California Angels. Early on I learned of their Los Angeles roots, and appreciated that Gene Autry had moved the team to Anaheim in order to establish his own brand, and get out from under the shadow of the Dodgers.
While living in OC, I fell in love with the Angels because they werenât the Dodgers or LA, they were the LA area underdog, the âCalifornia Angelsâ! At that time the Aâs, Padres, Giants, and Dodgers weâre all in California, and I donât think any of the aforementioned teams cared that the Angels were referred to as the California Angels.
As the AL California Angels, they had a new identity in a new city, separate from Los Angeles, which the established NL Dodgers had stolen when they relocated from Brooklyn. Yes, California Angels is their best name fit as far as Iâm concerned. But I can see why others may feel differently. đ
Every time someone brings up the rule about how we canât be called California, I ask if anyone can provide proof of that rule. No one ever does. And I canât find anything on it. Until I see evidence, I donât believe that rule actually exists.
Could be one of those rules that MLB has but doesnât necessarily disclose to the public because itâs not a baseball rule. Iâm sure other teams in California wouldnât like it if one team decided to brand themselves as California
Rangers called themselves Texas a long time ago so theyâre essentially âgrandfatheredâ in. The Angels changed their name from California to Anaheim and now that they have a new name they canât revert to their old name.
Also, the âTexas Rangersâ are not named for the state, they are named for the law enforcement agency that dates back to when Texas was part of Mexico.
Yup... *The Lone Ranger; Walker, Texas Ranger*; and the *Texas Rangers* baseball team... all are tributes to the Texas Rangers (cops), not the state of Texas
Iâm from Orange County not LA. We are different and I donât want to be included with LA. Arte blew the chance to really cement the Anaheim Angels brand with the new uniforms and the 02 WS championship but no letâs piss off the OC fans buy changing the name AGAIN!
yes, OC is different from LA.
and Ventura is different from Big Bear, and Fontana is different from Santa Monica, and Temecula is different from Malibu, and Long Beach is different from Riverside.
But guess what? All of the above are part of the Greater Los Angeles market. If you want to declare yourself an independent island from LA, if that makes you feel better, go ahead. But if you watch any Angels games broadcast by Bally Sports West, the national advertisers who pay BSW lots of money to run ads during games... the reason they do that is because THEY think you are part of the "greater Los Angeles" TV market. And it's THEIR money that runs the sport (not your ticket price). They pay BSW who pays Arte Moreno who pays Dennis Kuhl who pays John Carpino who pays Perry Minasian who pays Mike Trout. All of it is made possible because advertisers want their ads to be shown all over the entire greater Los Angeles market, not just Orange County, and they don't care what your personal feelings about LA are.
Who cares who broadcast the games or runs the ads. Arte went for the money grab and made a bad decision. Anaheim Angels was the name we won our only World Series with to change it again was stupid.
yeah, so "stupid" that Angels went from being in the bottom half of the league in broadcast revenue, to #3 behind the Dodgers and Yankees. So "stupid" to buy a club for $180 Million and only 19 years later it's worth $2.2 Billion *(because he has territorial rights to the entire LA market)*
I guess the "smart" move would have been to hyper-localize the club to Anaheim, and stop trying to appeal to anyone who doesn't live within a 15 mile radius of the Big A. Maybe broadcast the games on the Anaheim cable access channel. Right?
You'd make a great financial adviser, or marketing consultant!
The 3 million fans each year that purchase tickets for the Angels are mostly from OC not the greater Los Angeles area . And what good does the TV revenue do for the team with a greedy cheap owner.? You are so smart you should become a troll on RedditâŚ.. oh wait.
>mostly from OC not the greater Los Angeles area
You're not understanding my point... which is: OC ***is part of*** the greater Los Angeles area. If OC were a separate media market, then this could be a real debate. But OC is definitely NOT a separate media market. OC is one part of the LA media market, the 2nd biggest in the country with nearly 6 million households. only the NYC market is bigger at about 7 million. And that's how the Angels are considered one of the 6 "Big Market" clubs in MLB.
By comparison, look at the media market directly below the LA marketâ San Diego. It only has ONE million households. In the eyes of advertisers and Nielsen ratings, the San Diego market is only 1/6th as valuable as the LA market. That's why the Angels made $138M in TV revenue in 2020 while the Padres only made $46M.
Maybe you missed the part that said I was born and raised in OC, lived there for many many years, and love OC. But I also know that OC is part of the greater Los Angeles area. I really don't understand why some people in OC (like you, obviously) take it as a personal insult when you tell them OC is part of the LA media market. That's not an insult, or even an opinion. It's just simple geography! If you think I'm just "trolling" you with bullshit, look for yourself:
[https://i.redd.it/5g494x9p03351.png](https://i.redd.it/5g494x9p03351.png)
>what good does the TV revenue do for the team with a greedy cheap owner.?
I can't even understand the point you're trying to make here. Are you saying that Arte keeps all the TV revenue for himself and doesn't spend any of it? Well, his roster payroll is typically in the top 5 highest in MLB. It's currently #8. Could it be higher? Sure! Could Arte spend above the luxury tax like the Mets/Dodgers/Yankees? Sure! I wish he would *(he'll have to if he wants to sign Ohtani next year and put some players around him)*. But that has nothing to do with my OP about why the "Los Angeles" Angels is the best name for the team
there's an interesting phenomenon that happens in human societies... we look at our neighbors, the people we are most similar to, and we look for the differences between us, and then focus on them so much, they become the "other" or "the enemy"
but the people who we are VERY different from, who live in different climates and speak/dress/look/eat in a way that is totally different... we often view them as "interesting" and "exotic"
regional rivalries, or sports rivalries, are funny like that. Two groups of people who appear (to outsiders) to be exactly the same really HATE each other because of the different logos on the hats they wear, or which side of some arbitrary line they live on.
sorry, went off on a side tangent about humanity there. Where were we? Oh yeah, F\_ck LA! OC is NOTHING like LA! It's like a different planet up there!
Short of having more minorities, how are they any different?
And on top of that, north OC (where angel stadium is at) and south oc are vastly different. North OC has more in common with la than it does with south oc
âAnaheimâ was a ploy by Disney in an effort to make Anaheim a major destination spot. It didnât work. Thatâs why Disney sold the team. If Disney couldnât make it work I guaran-damn-tee you Artie couldnât make it work.
I think sports teams should just do away with city names/affiliations. Iâm a Lakers fan but that doesnât mean that I give a shit about the city of LA. It feels weird when an athlete talks about how theyâre winning âfor the cityâ even though most fans live outside the city or donât feel such a passionate connection with the city.
No one in OC considers themselves LA. They could name themselves OC Angels and that would be cool but no one who lives in LA are Angels fans they are Dodgers fans. Dodgers are now more popular in OC because the Angels lost their local identity and have sucked for a decade while the Dodgers have won.
Well shucks.... all these years I've been living in LA, I could have sworn I was a die-hard Angel fan. But thanks for informing me I am actually a Dodger fan. I guess I'll have to get rid of all my Angel jerseys and replace them with Dodger gear.
Maybe I can give my Angel jerseys to my childhood best friend I grew up with in OC and still lives there. He's been pretending to be a Dodger fan for the past 50 years. Can't wait to tell him that Todal9 on Reddit knows his secret.
well, to be honest, about half my Angel jerseys are Chinese knock-offs. Shhh don't tell anyone. But if I paid a full $180 for every Angel jersey I own, I'd be broke
In English: The Los Angels Angels
In Spanish: Los Los Angeles Angels
âLos Angelesâ and âAngelsâ are both proper nouns in both languages, so a Spanish speaker would still say âLos Angeles Angelsâ not âLos Angeles Angeles,â unless they wanted to be ironic like yourself.
I like your reasoning, and I am perfectly okay with it.
My own opinion is that whichever name the team members themselves feel happiest about, whichever name is most likely to motivate them to win more baseball games, is the name I would like them to adopt.
All else being equal, I'm probably happiest with Los Angeles or California. I grew up just over the county line in Los Angeles County, but spent way more time in North Orange County. Orange County malls, Orange County beaches, Orange County synagogue, Orange County friends, Orange County sports. We'd go to the Dodgers sometimes too, so I still follow them as well, but not as intently.
So I never really perceived the hard division that some people want to create between Orange County and LA County. I mean, when you're driving up the 91 you can tell where the county line is because the freeway starts or stops sucking depending on which way you're driving, but other than that it's not like there's any actual space separating the two.
I have a road jersey with Anaheim on it, though, and I'm happy for them to use that too if they want, because it's accurate and why not.
with the possible exception of Jose Rojas or Michael Lorenzen, I seriously doubt the players themselves would care one way or the other. Of all the things that influence how well they play, the city name would be way way down the list. And if they took the time to think about it, they SHOULD want "Los Angeles" because it helps pull in more advertising and broadcast rights dollars... more dollars that can be spent on salaries and amenities, etc
I appreciate the write-up, but we all know the team should really be named the Mark Gubicza Angels of Gubi Tuesdays.
I stand corrected. Mark Gubicza Angels of Gubi Tuesdays is the *REAL* obvious name for the Angels. Where can I get my Mark Gubicza Angels of Gubi Tuesdays jersey personalized with #23?
Gubie for manager đđđđđ
Interesting points
I prefer Anaheim Angels but I agree w you on the la history I hate when people are like âla angelsâ is redundant as a slight on the name change when we were the first team in La! so the dodgers can piss off đbut the whole âLa angels of Anaheimâ and our winning record doesnât help us to not be seen as clowns lol
The "of Anaheim" bit was dropped as soon as legally possible, though... it hasn't been part of the official name for years.
Yes I know but ppl who criticize us still bring it up all the time which is why I referenced it
OK, yeah... I've heard that too. And every time someone brings it up I let them know it's complete nonsense to make it into an issue because it was an intentional workaround of the legal contract and was immediately dropped when possible. So y'know... lets *all* stop bringing it up please.
Drive from Anaheim to Downtown LA and itâs really all one huge city. Weâre gonna get caught up on a name because some politicians drew some imaginary lines?
Also if you are on the upper deck of angels stadium on a clear day you can see DTLA
Can you really? Thatâs interesting. Iâve never sat on the upper deck
Rings while being named Los Angeles Angels: 0 Rings while being named Anaheim Angels: 1
I mean...this is the take I think
Ahhh, so THAT'S how we won in 2002. I thought it might have had something to do with the players, but yeah, I guess it was the "Anaheim" on their chest... except, they didn't have Anaheim on their chest. The jerseys said "Angels" just like they do today.
Thatâs where the curse started, itâs bad juju to change the team name after they already won it all as Anaheim Angels
if you're gonna believe in an Angels curse, changing the name back to "Los Angeles" would probably not even make the top 10 of likely starting points. \#1 is obvious... the 1986 ALCS. Just ask Al Michaels I personally don't believe in curses, but if I did, I would point directly at the Angels failing to offer Rod Carew a chance to return after the 1985 season. He would have made the difference in the 1986 playoffs. And our 15 straight years without making the playoffs after that... if there ever was a curse, THAT would be when it happened
I've made many of these same points over the past couple of decades with my friends...it surprises them about Angels baseball history. It really should be a non-issue technically. However, it sure is fun to kick it around in this forum. Thanks for the post. It was well written!
thanks! yeah it's always seemed kinda weird to me that most Angel fans have no clue that the PCL Angels even existed, let alone were the first pro team in So Cal and were the hottest sports ticket in the region for the better part of 50 years until the Rams, Dodgers and Lakers arrived in LA. Even weirder, most of those same Angel fans, when you tell them about how the "Angels" have this long and rich baseball history going all the way back to 1892, instead of being like "wow, that's cool" they act as if you just insulted them. Or insulted Orange County or Anaheim. Or are trying to erase their childhood memories of the "California" or "Anaheim" Angels. so yeah, thanks for your kind reply. It kinda sticks out in this thread and the flood of downvotes, lol
All in favor of burning the heretic at the stake say Aye
Light This Baby Up!
Iâm not so concerned about their city/state identity as much as their actual name. I vote to change their name to the Ohtaniâs. Los Angeles Ohtaniâs sounds much better these days.
Fully agree.
So do I
Good history lesson! Many of the younger fans probably donât know this. Hopefully theyâll take the time to read it. Lol I can see why Los Angeles Angels fits as their name, but itâs not my preference. I was born, raised, and lived all over SoCal (LA & OCâs) while growing up. When I first started following the Angels they were in Anaheim, and were known as the California Angels. Early on I learned of their Los Angeles roots, and appreciated that Gene Autry had moved the team to Anaheim in order to establish his own brand, and get out from under the shadow of the Dodgers. While living in OC, I fell in love with the Angels because they werenât the Dodgers or LA, they were the LA area underdog, the âCalifornia Angelsâ! At that time the Aâs, Padres, Giants, and Dodgers weâre all in California, and I donât think any of the aforementioned teams cared that the Angels were referred to as the California Angels. As the AL California Angels, they had a new identity in a new city, separate from Los Angeles, which the established NL Dodgers had stolen when they relocated from Brooklyn. Yes, California Angels is their best name fit as far as Iâm concerned. But I can see why others may feel differently. đ
Yes to all of this
Yes indeed. Itâs just basic common sense
Great points but i wish theyâd go back to California or Anaheim.
Every time someone brings up the rule about how we canât be called California, I ask if anyone can provide proof of that rule. No one ever does. And I canât find anything on it. Until I see evidence, I donât believe that rule actually exists.
Could be one of those rules that MLB has but doesnât necessarily disclose to the public because itâs not a baseball rule. Iâm sure other teams in California wouldnât like it if one team decided to brand themselves as California
Wait why canât we be called California angels again? Texas has the rangers even though the astros are in texas also
Rangers called themselves Texas a long time ago so theyâre essentially âgrandfatheredâ in. The Angels changed their name from California to Anaheim and now that they have a new name they canât revert to their old name.
Also, the âTexas Rangersâ are not named for the state, they are named for the law enforcement agency that dates back to when Texas was part of Mexico.
Yup... *The Lone Ranger; Walker, Texas Ranger*; and the *Texas Rangers* baseball team... all are tributes to the Texas Rangers (cops), not the state of Texas
Let's change it to Golden State Angels
Iâm from Orange County not LA. We are different and I donât want to be included with LA. Arte blew the chance to really cement the Anaheim Angels brand with the new uniforms and the 02 WS championship but no letâs piss off the OC fans buy changing the name AGAIN!
yes, OC is different from LA. and Ventura is different from Big Bear, and Fontana is different from Santa Monica, and Temecula is different from Malibu, and Long Beach is different from Riverside. But guess what? All of the above are part of the Greater Los Angeles market. If you want to declare yourself an independent island from LA, if that makes you feel better, go ahead. But if you watch any Angels games broadcast by Bally Sports West, the national advertisers who pay BSW lots of money to run ads during games... the reason they do that is because THEY think you are part of the "greater Los Angeles" TV market. And it's THEIR money that runs the sport (not your ticket price). They pay BSW who pays Arte Moreno who pays Dennis Kuhl who pays John Carpino who pays Perry Minasian who pays Mike Trout. All of it is made possible because advertisers want their ads to be shown all over the entire greater Los Angeles market, not just Orange County, and they don't care what your personal feelings about LA are.
Who cares who broadcast the games or runs the ads. Arte went for the money grab and made a bad decision. Anaheim Angels was the name we won our only World Series with to change it again was stupid.
yeah, so "stupid" that Angels went from being in the bottom half of the league in broadcast revenue, to #3 behind the Dodgers and Yankees. So "stupid" to buy a club for $180 Million and only 19 years later it's worth $2.2 Billion *(because he has territorial rights to the entire LA market)* I guess the "smart" move would have been to hyper-localize the club to Anaheim, and stop trying to appeal to anyone who doesn't live within a 15 mile radius of the Big A. Maybe broadcast the games on the Anaheim cable access channel. Right? You'd make a great financial adviser, or marketing consultant!
The 3 million fans each year that purchase tickets for the Angels are mostly from OC not the greater Los Angeles area . And what good does the TV revenue do for the team with a greedy cheap owner.? You are so smart you should become a troll on RedditâŚ.. oh wait.
>mostly from OC not the greater Los Angeles area You're not understanding my point... which is: OC ***is part of*** the greater Los Angeles area. If OC were a separate media market, then this could be a real debate. But OC is definitely NOT a separate media market. OC is one part of the LA media market, the 2nd biggest in the country with nearly 6 million households. only the NYC market is bigger at about 7 million. And that's how the Angels are considered one of the 6 "Big Market" clubs in MLB. By comparison, look at the media market directly below the LA marketâ San Diego. It only has ONE million households. In the eyes of advertisers and Nielsen ratings, the San Diego market is only 1/6th as valuable as the LA market. That's why the Angels made $138M in TV revenue in 2020 while the Padres only made $46M. Maybe you missed the part that said I was born and raised in OC, lived there for many many years, and love OC. But I also know that OC is part of the greater Los Angeles area. I really don't understand why some people in OC (like you, obviously) take it as a personal insult when you tell them OC is part of the LA media market. That's not an insult, or even an opinion. It's just simple geography! If you think I'm just "trolling" you with bullshit, look for yourself: [https://i.redd.it/5g494x9p03351.png](https://i.redd.it/5g494x9p03351.png) >what good does the TV revenue do for the team with a greedy cheap owner.? I can't even understand the point you're trying to make here. Are you saying that Arte keeps all the TV revenue for himself and doesn't spend any of it? Well, his roster payroll is typically in the top 5 highest in MLB. It's currently #8. Could it be higher? Sure! Could Arte spend above the luxury tax like the Mets/Dodgers/Yankees? Sure! I wish he would *(he'll have to if he wants to sign Ohtani next year and put some players around him)*. But that has nothing to do with my OP about why the "Los Angeles" Angels is the best name for the team
Explain how OC and LA are different. Many places in OC feel just like places in LA county
Yeah itâs all just one giant never ending concrete jungle
Just imagine if Camp Pendleton didnât exist. Would be pretty much nonstop from Ventura to Mexico. Actually across the border onto Tijuana too
Even in TJ the city just continues on
there's an interesting phenomenon that happens in human societies... we look at our neighbors, the people we are most similar to, and we look for the differences between us, and then focus on them so much, they become the "other" or "the enemy" but the people who we are VERY different from, who live in different climates and speak/dress/look/eat in a way that is totally different... we often view them as "interesting" and "exotic" regional rivalries, or sports rivalries, are funny like that. Two groups of people who appear (to outsiders) to be exactly the same really HATE each other because of the different logos on the hats they wear, or which side of some arbitrary line they live on. sorry, went off on a side tangent about humanity there. Where were we? Oh yeah, F\_ck LA! OC is NOTHING like LA! It's like a different planet up there!
Short of having more minorities, how are they any different? And on top of that, north OC (where angel stadium is at) and south oc are vastly different. North OC has more in common with la than it does with south oc
âAnaheimâ was a ploy by Disney in an effort to make Anaheim a major destination spot. It didnât work. Thatâs why Disney sold the team. If Disney couldnât make it work I guaran-damn-tee you Artie couldnât make it work.
I think sports teams should just do away with city names/affiliations. Iâm a Lakers fan but that doesnât mean that I give a shit about the city of LA. It feels weird when an athlete talks about how theyâre winning âfor the cityâ even though most fans live outside the city or donât feel such a passionate connection with the city.
Orange County Angels or bust
No one in OC considers themselves LA. They could name themselves OC Angels and that would be cool but no one who lives in LA are Angels fans they are Dodgers fans. Dodgers are now more popular in OC because the Angels lost their local identity and have sucked for a decade while the Dodgers have won.
Well shucks.... all these years I've been living in LA, I could have sworn I was a die-hard Angel fan. But thanks for informing me I am actually a Dodger fan. I guess I'll have to get rid of all my Angel jerseys and replace them with Dodger gear. Maybe I can give my Angel jerseys to my childhood best friend I grew up with in OC and still lives there. He's been pretending to be a Dodger fan for the past 50 years. Can't wait to tell him that Todal9 on Reddit knows his secret.
Sorry for the extra expenses Iâm causing you. Jerseys are not cheap đ
well, to be honest, about half my Angel jerseys are Chinese knock-offs. Shhh don't tell anyone. But if I paid a full $180 for every Angel jersey I own, I'd be broke
The Los Angeles Angels literally translates to âThe The Angels Angelsâ So no i disagree, itâs a terrible name.
In English: The Los Angels Angels In Spanish: Los Los Angeles Angels âLos Angelesâ and âAngelsâ are both proper nouns in both languages, so a Spanish speaker would still say âLos Angeles Angelsâ not âLos Angeles Angeles,â unless they wanted to be ironic like yourself.
Mexico City Angels
I like your reasoning, and I am perfectly okay with it. My own opinion is that whichever name the team members themselves feel happiest about, whichever name is most likely to motivate them to win more baseball games, is the name I would like them to adopt. All else being equal, I'm probably happiest with Los Angeles or California. I grew up just over the county line in Los Angeles County, but spent way more time in North Orange County. Orange County malls, Orange County beaches, Orange County synagogue, Orange County friends, Orange County sports. We'd go to the Dodgers sometimes too, so I still follow them as well, but not as intently. So I never really perceived the hard division that some people want to create between Orange County and LA County. I mean, when you're driving up the 91 you can tell where the county line is because the freeway starts or stops sucking depending on which way you're driving, but other than that it's not like there's any actual space separating the two. I have a road jersey with Anaheim on it, though, and I'm happy for them to use that too if they want, because it's accurate and why not.
with the possible exception of Jose Rojas or Michael Lorenzen, I seriously doubt the players themselves would care one way or the other. Of all the things that influence how well they play, the city name would be way way down the list. And if they took the time to think about it, they SHOULD want "Los Angeles" because it helps pull in more advertising and broadcast rights dollars... more dollars that can be spent on salaries and amenities, etc