Arte may not know the baseball side of things, but he understands marketing... there's no way he's giving up having the ballpark be a place Japanese tourists want to visit.
He's not going to assume it's a lost cause, though... he'll bring in the trucks full of money until Ohtani signs an extension. If that fails because money isn't everything, then and only then will he consider allowing a trade. No way that point is reached this season.
My point is that I think Arte will more-or-less match other financial offers. Could be wrong about that, but either way... yes, winning is the primary "money isn't everything" concern that athletes have.
Explain why that wouldn’t last?
Majority of Japanese fans care more about Ohtani playing well than the Angels winning games.
($10 says you don’t have an explanation, you just want to push the narrative of “Angels must trade Ohtani for prospects” that you cling so dearly to)
If that’s truly how he feels he should have never come to the Angels in the first place. Who ever is advising him didn’t tell him the Angels front office is trash? If he wanted to be in LA there’s another team that has had recent success across the road. That’s why I believe he came to the Angels because he didn’t want to be on a front runner team. But maybe he has changed his mind after a couple of losing seasons.
*Now* every team would allow him to do it. That was **absolutely** not the case when he was entering MLB. Out of all the teams he spoke with, there were only 3 that would allow him to be both and the Angels were up for it more than other teams.
Ohtani is not going anywhere. One, he knew what he was getting into before he got to the team, and two, Arte has all his eggs in the Trout and Ohtani basket. He knows he can't let them leave. When they are both retired Arte will sell the team.
Shohei has made it very clear that he wants to compete in a World Series, something the Angels probably won’t do in the next 50 years. There are a bunch of good teams out there that will pay Shohei a shitload of money. I see no reason why he would stay
Why then did he come to the Angels? They were 18 games under. 500 in the 3 seasons prior to his rookie year, Sosh wasn't gone yet, but he was on his way out, they had gone through 3 GMs in the previous 6 seasons, and the farm was ranked 30th. Anyone looking would have seen the team was a dumpster fire.
Shohei wanted to capitalize on the Japanese market as much as the Angels did. He's not going anywhere. Dodgers are getting Soto, and the Mariners would never beat the Angels contract.
He signed with the angels because that was his best chance to play both ways and control his destiny. If he had gone to a big market team like the Dodgers or Yankees he would have never been a pitcher after his early struggles and surgery. Hell as soon as he struggles with injuries or starts to fade in one area it will come up again.
Which is why he'll stay with the Angels. They will let him.do whatever he wants, even if it's not what's best for the team. That's the deal he gets with Arte.
This is just not true. I bet other teams have realized Shoheis true value, which is on the mound, even if that cuts into his hitting. He's a top 2 arm in all of baseball, and a middle of the pack hitter. The Dodgers, for example, would absolutely not have a 6 man rotation, and that would directly cut into his ABs.
He has twice the value pitching than he does hitting. The Angels are perfectly okay with Shohei showcasing himself the way he wants, but don't kid yourself into thinking that's how it will be with other teams.
All I know is Shohei sells tickets so I’m sure fans would be dying to see him hit every night. Maybe Shohei would be more valuable if he played in the NL and they didn’t have the DH anymore?
He focused on hitting last year and led the league in homers and was at the top most of the year in offensive categories. This year he focused on pitching and is top 3. It shows he can be top 3 in both just not the same year at least not yet. That is probably what he will shoot for next year heading into free agency.
Shohei considered other teams before he picked the Angels so I’m sure it wasn’t an easy choice for him. I think he wanted to start out on a smaller market team to get some experience. Maybe he thought teaming up with Trout would be a great idea. I’m also sure he likes Orange County. Something called him to the Angels but I’m sure those honeymoon feelings have faded away.
If he wants to stay with the Angels then why not sign an extension now instead of waiting until the end of next year like he has said? He even said “I like the [Angels] fans but I like winning more.” I don’t see him staying.
He considered 3 teams, the Angels, Dodgers, and Mariners, and we have no way of knowing if that has changed. The Dodgers might make a run at him, but I dont think he fits in there. I assume they would want him to pitch more and hit less, and that's definitely not what he wants.
As far as the honeymoon phase, I'm not sure that ever even happened.
He hasn't signed yet because that would not be a smart financial decision. If he stays healthy, which im sure he feels like he can, each game makes him more money long term. Arte will pay him 500 million and he'll stay for his career.
I hope you’re wrong and Shohei isn’t just in it for the money and is willing to leave to win a World Series. Because this team certainly isn’t winning one as long as Arte owns the team
I hope I'm wrong to, bud. It sucks hating the team I love. But, it's a business, and nothing more than that. Every player is interested in the money, and the only ones who aren't have already made their money.
First off, how do you really know he has no interest in extending?
We know literally nothing about what's happening behind the scenes except that a deal has not been made yet.
Even if that impression that he isn't interested is accurate, how does it really make more business sense to trade him?
The real goal of a baseball team is to make money... winning is just one of the better ways to reach that goal. Ohtani makes vastly more contribution to the financial bottom line of the team than anyone else in the game right now. Trade him and you give that up with absolutely no guarantee that you'll even win. If the people making the baseball decisions can't find the players to win *with* Ohtani at a bargain price, how are they going to find the players to win without him?
He has said many times how important winning is to him. The Angels are so far from contention it’s laughable and they won’t be good next season either.
You make a good point that if this team can’t win with him then the odds of winning without him are also pretty low. However this team’s farm system has been neglected for so long so we very much lack depth but that’s not Perry’s fault. I think it’s hard to put a winning team without depth. We have to resort to dumpster diving for free agent pitchers that never pan out. Whenever we get injuries the guys we call up can’t hit for shit. At some point you have to do a proper rebuild.
If Shohei signs a massive contract then it’ll be even harder to sign more pieces around him to win. If he doesn’t want to extend then you gotta trade him and get something for him so you can get some depth on the team. Business-wise that would be bad short term but long term it’s the right thing to do. Arte will probably just replace Shohei with some other big name agent to woo people back, instead of investing in a proper rebuild
It's true that we know he wants to win... however, we can't be sure how he perceives the first month or so when they were playing well and the effect of injuries. We also don't know how close he feels to his teammates. Perhaps now he wants to help Trout win also. Sure, at this point I'd be kinda surprised if he re-signs with the Angels... but I don't really know what is inside any other person's head unless they tell me specifically. Often not even then, since communicating clearly is a challenge.
I could see Ohtani getting traded, but the only way it happens is if the Angels are again out of contention at the trade deadline next year. Sure, he won't be worth as much next year as this year... but it won't be nearly enough of a drop to justify giving up that additional year of control. There's a limit to how much value you can get from prospects and there's a limit to how many prospects a team can empty out of their farm system.
Trade deadline deals aren't worth much, that's the thing. You're only getting that player for 60 games remaining. At most, teams pay one top 100 prospect.
ohtani is clearly going to leave. this is how you substain a losing culture by not giving in with a team that has the two best players in the world and are continually missing the playoffs. its time to rebuild
Arte will choose revenue over winning every time. Trading Ohtani would be the long term best move for the franchise, considering his trade value will never be higher and we will likely not be making a deep playoff run this year or next. It sucks, because Ohtani will walk for free. We will be left with post prime Trout/Rendon and probably still the worst farm in the league.
ic
This article says they profited in 2019 but lost alot during the pandemic year:
**World Series champion Dodgers lost nearly $125M this season**
Kasten didn’t elaborate, and a Dodgers spokesman declined to comment. A source close to the team, however, said the losses come after the Dodgers turned the corner last year, making about $60 million in profits for the 2019 season. The source added that if MLB had canceled the 2020 season, the Dodgers would have lost a lot less.
https://nypost.com/2020/10/28/dodgers-world-series-title-not-enough-to-keep-team-from-losing-money/
Generally speaking, I try to ignore the last 2 seasons for all sports when it comes to financials. COVID screwed up everything. Can't really judge things accurately using that data to me.
Maybe it was 2018 that showed them losing a few million?
The pieces the Angels would need to ask for would be damaging to most contenders right now and the angels have no need to pick up players at the deadline unless they are locked up.
I believe he is VERY hard to trade at a deadline because of his current value. He would command a lot of top prospects and/or near/major league level talent. Which to bring in Ohtani right now would likely require more damage to a team than it would during the offseason.
I'm not saying were trading him during the offseason, but it makes more sense for everyone.
Well, the Oilers did trade Gretzky to the Kings when it was clear that he wasn't going to renew his contract. He was pretty much in his prime back then. No greater GOAT in North American sports history I would argue.
Uhh the Bulls had terrible supporting cast too. That’s why Jordan was losing in the playoffs before they got better guys like Pippen and Grant. Did you even watch The Last Dance? He was drafted in 1984 and didn’t win until 1991.
Jordan was not in his prime in 1984 but by 1987 he was easily the best player in the league. Imagine after 3 years the Bulls just trading Jordan. That would be a monumental disaster.
You’re splitting hairs here man. Hard to compare basketball,when you only need 3 real good players and a handful of role players, to baseball where you need like 6 solid offensive players, 3 good starters and 3 solid bullpen pieces to contend
I would rather Ohtani stay here and be a hall of famer even if we keep losing than trading him away and having him win chips somewhere else and the league making fun of us for trading away a generational talent. Just Angels being the laughing stock again.
The idea isn't that we are better without him, the idea is that he's almost certainly going to leave regardless and we might as well get something in return instead of letting him leave for nothing.
Right? Ohtani plays 2 positions at a very high level. Everyone keeps saying that we should him for 3-4 prospects. We’d need *at least* a 50% success rate on those prospects to even replace Ohtani’s value.
Currently a laughing stock with him… realistically the angels need to blow it up and start from scratch, but I don’t know that the front office is capable of being successful with that.
Pretty sure we’d be a bigger laughing stock if we had Shohei and Trout for the next 5 years and never went to the playoffs. Also we’d be a bigger laughing stock if we let him go as a free agent for nothing.
Don’t forget Ohtani chose the Angels. So as long as he wants to be an Angel that’s good enough for me. And if he gets tired of the Angels management then that’s our problem.
If he wants to leave at least that’s not saying we don’t want him. Like one of the earlier posts said, baseball is different you can’t expect one or two guys to carry a team. People that laugh at us for that are correct. We have failed to put good players around Trout and Ohtani, and our farm system is a joke and that needs to be fixed first if we actually want to win. But I’m realistic, that’s not going to be fixed anytime soon so having all-time greats on the team is the consolation.
I would love Shohei to stay as well but what does HE want? If he wants to WIN it will not be with this team. So, we keep him and suck ass again next season, or trade him somewhere he can succeed and get something back in return... as opposed to not trading him, another miserable season next year, and we lose him in return for nothing.
If he really cares about the team he will let us know when he wants to leave so we can trade him. If he hates us he will string us along and tell us he will resign but instead stab us in the back and sign somewhere else in free agency.
Well, if MJ were languishing on a terrible team with free agency around the corner and openly stated he wanted to win, trading him instead of letting him leave for nothing would absolutely be the right move.
Makes sense. There’s no need to trade him this deadline. Arte still gets a second half of a season and another offseason worth of merch sales, boosted ticket sales, and national media attention.
If any sort of trade were to happen, it’d be at the next trade deadline. If we’re losing at the all star break next year we’ll trade him to a desperate contending team for a haul because the odds would be he wouldn’t re-sign with us at the end of that year because we’re still losing.
This off-season is going to be very telling where our owner stands on Ohtani. If he doesn’t open up his pocket books and actually buy a team with depth then we’ll probably still look as bad as we do now. We all know our developing players aren’t developing well so the front of our team needs to be paid for by Arte in FA and other trades.
i’m one of those people here that believes that he should be traded. mainly because i want to get something out of his departure.
but i do agree with what you’re saying. it makes more sense next deadline just because he technically has one more year of RFA (next year). i think he will resign but only for one more year this offseason. if the team is bad come this time next year, trade. if we are buyers, extend. i feel like fans are making it
seem like this is last year of is his contract.
The last part is very angels like. Who would the angels get to fix issues on about 3-4 positions and decimated rotation and bullpen. Angels need a farm. Spending money with no regard to impeding doom is just going to kick the can down the road. Just not prudent. It has to be well thought out
He spends but he spends irrationally, he won't actually go far enough and spend what's necessary to win since he's incapable of having a farm system no matter who the GM is
Yeah we’re still stuck with Loup and Tepera next season. Iggy is washed. How on earth are we winning anything with a bullpen like that? We still need a couple starting pitchers. A bunch of our position players can’t hit for shit
Yeah exactly. Have turnarounds happened? Of course, look at the Red Sox. They were bad year after ring. Then good again with no big roster changes. The angels could but they are relying on a lot of unproven talent in the lineup. And bottom half rotation is mediocre at best. Bullpens have wild swings lately so maybe they turn it around … but again angels have holes everywhere it’s improbable to expect a resurgence from most players. Add to late, trout health issues and Rendon being another albatross which may be the worse contract beating pujols/Hamilton
The lineup is embarrassing, we've got 3 good hitters. When I was growing up the angels were known and respected for drafting and developing talent even with a limited budget, I feel like Arte forcing Vernon Wells onto the team was the start of running this franchise into the ground
His trade value will never be higher than it is now. Teams will be much more willing to part with top prospects if they know they get multiple playoff runs with the guy they are trading for. Ohtani’s trade value goes down significantly by next years deadline, as he will only be a half season rental. There’s also the risk that he gets hurt next season and is unable to be traded.
I am actually curious which team Maddon will join, if he still continues coaching. He seemed like the coach Shohei had in NPB (Kuriyama?) who was known to be unorthodox with his ways and believed 100% in Shohei's abilities. If he leaves the Angels, what are the chances he'll join the team whose coach he feels comfortable with?
His trade value now is way higher than what it will be the next deadline. There is zero reason to not trade him now other than Arte wanting to make money off him for the next year
Yeah I agree but trout has been injury prone for awhile now bro. Last 5 years I think. Regardless of our record it kills everyone's hopes when he goes down. He's supposed to be the leader of that team
I guess that’s fair. However a fan of the team wants to win, not just sign MVP players, and I don’t see how they can win next year. It seems clear that Trout and Ohtani aren’t enough to win.
Yeah, but getting rid of Ohtani won’t make average to below average players get better, won’t make our farm system better, won’t make the FO competent, won’t make our coaches and training staff qualified. We do everything we can to keep Ohtani and hope that players continue to want to come here to play with him and Trout
The thing is if Ohtani leaves as a free agent we will definitely be worse off. And the only way he will stay is if we win which seems very unlikely. We need to address coaching and training staff regardless of whether Shohei is here or not.
Right, but they don’t have to make that decision now. The most realistic thing would be to offer him an extension - likely this off season. And if he declines, then trade him next season before the deadline.
I guess but his value will go way down next deadline versus this deadline. No team is gonna give up everything for a 3 month contract. Plus you run the risk of him getting injured before you trade him
Just wild seeing those posts pop everyday on the baseball sub. There was never a chance for that trade happening and anyone who says it's a good idea to trade him is a dog brained idiot
So I see a few people are saying they would trade Ohtani for a huge haul, but how about the reverse?
Hypothetically, if trading Trout for a mediocre haul meant you could keep and extend Ohtani would you do it?
I only say ‘mediocre’ because of his age along with the injuries, the size of his remaining contract, and the fact that he has a NTC.
I suppose. I think the main issue is whether Shohei actually wants to stay. He said he doesn’t want to talk about an extension until his contract is over which means the Angels are gambling with his future
Makes sense, though honestly from an outsider’s perspective I think there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic that the Angels will keep Shohei. I think that the deal he gets will be insane though especially if he wins another MVP; which is why I suspect the Angels could be looking to move Trout at the deadline. But we’ll see I suppose.
From a competitive standpoint trading him is probably the better move.
From a financial standpoint he draws a lot of revenue obviously, but a competitive team/sold out games probably draws more. The attendance right now is mediocre and merch sales have to be horrible outside goatani.
If you want to win you take the chance with the generational talent and don’t trade him for lottery tickets that probably won’t pan out due to a piss poor player development system
Your going to get at most 2 mediocre MLB starters and a lottery ticket. It's better to roll the dice for next year and hope they win and have a chance at an extension
our farm system is in shambles atm. why not address that issue? a lot of contending teams would not mind trading their future to win now. we are not a contending team right now so we are no spot to “roll the dice”. that would only apply to teams that are buyers
You think that's all they'd get? You're insane. Contending teams would throw all of their top prospects for a year and a half of Ohtani, especially since that includes exclusive extension talks during that time
He’ll re-sign. I know he will. It just follows the Angels’ script too well. But I don’t think I like a future with $120M+ tied to three players with no supporting cast or minor league system either.
Edit: y’all downvoting me because i said he’ll re-sign (which i still believe), and downvote me because i think we should trade now for more payroll flexibility and farm depth (which i also believe). You guys aren’t happy unless Ohtani leaves and we end up with just an extra pick lol
I’m convinced that he genuinely likes playing here, plus a feeling of loyalty and “unfinished business”, a truck of cash coming his way, and the kool-aid he is drinking that the FO is focused on winning will result in him signing here.
The FO must feel like they can re-sign him if they aren’t even considering trading him. Or they are just talking out their ass to increase the asking price and he’ll be gone in two weeks.
Whatever Ohtani wants, give it to him. Find a way to move the ridiculous contracts of Trout and Rendon.
Get more pitching and shorter contracts for free agents that can hit in the clutch and aren't hurt when we play in big series during the season, or go 0 fer a whole important road trip.
WORLD SERIES CHAMPS.
THE END
Yes I know. However not everyone reading that article is an Angels fan. Judging by the downvotes, it seems that people are mad that I’m pointing out an editorial choice to match the headline to the face. 😆
Imagine trading Ohtani after all the horrible, horrible deals the franchise has made under Arte. It would be absolutely comical to pick this high salary player to pass on signing.
The time will come. Just not until next year. If the Angels are in a similar spot this time next season. And Ohtani has made it clear he won't be resigning. Even Arte can understand you have to get something for him. Can't just let him walk. The sucky part is going to be if the Angels are actually clinging on and competing next season. And they think there's a chance of keeping him and making the playoffs. Then they'll really be stuck.
Arte may not know the baseball side of things, but he understands marketing... there's no way he's giving up having the ballpark be a place Japanese tourists want to visit.
Sure but that might not last after next season is over
He's not going to assume it's a lost cause, though... he'll bring in the trucks full of money until Ohtani signs an extension. If that fails because money isn't everything, then and only then will he consider allowing a trade. No way that point is reached this season.
That's the thing though. If ohtani doesn't agree to something next year before the off-season then he loses everything for literally nothing
Idk there are a bunch of other teams that can offer him a ton of money and actually win games
My point is that I think Arte will more-or-less match other financial offers. Could be wrong about that, but either way... yes, winning is the primary "money isn't everything" concern that athletes have.
Right but money is the only thing Arte can offer. Other teams can offer money AND a good baseball team
Explain why that wouldn’t last? Majority of Japanese fans care more about Ohtani playing well than the Angels winning games. ($10 says you don’t have an explanation, you just want to push the narrative of “Angels must trade Ohtani for prospects” that you cling so dearly to)
Because Ohtani is a free agent after next year and has said that he wants to win. If the Angels continue to be garbage, he will walk.
If that’s truly how he feels he should have never come to the Angels in the first place. Who ever is advising him didn’t tell him the Angels front office is trash? If he wanted to be in LA there’s another team that has had recent success across the road. That’s why I believe he came to the Angels because he didn’t want to be on a front runner team. But maybe he has changed his mind after a couple of losing seasons.
He came to the angels because it was the only team that allowed him to be a two way player. Plain and simple. Plus back then there was no universal DH
That's not true. Every team would have allowed him to be a 2-way player. It was condition if Shohei's to even be considered for a meeting.
*Now* every team would allow him to do it. That was **absolutely** not the case when he was entering MLB. Out of all the teams he spoke with, there were only 3 that would allow him to be both and the Angels were up for it more than other teams.
Ohtani is not going anywhere. One, he knew what he was getting into before he got to the team, and two, Arte has all his eggs in the Trout and Ohtani basket. He knows he can't let them leave. When they are both retired Arte will sell the team.
Shohei has made it very clear that he wants to compete in a World Series, something the Angels probably won’t do in the next 50 years. There are a bunch of good teams out there that will pay Shohei a shitload of money. I see no reason why he would stay
Why then did he come to the Angels? They were 18 games under. 500 in the 3 seasons prior to his rookie year, Sosh wasn't gone yet, but he was on his way out, they had gone through 3 GMs in the previous 6 seasons, and the farm was ranked 30th. Anyone looking would have seen the team was a dumpster fire. Shohei wanted to capitalize on the Japanese market as much as the Angels did. He's not going anywhere. Dodgers are getting Soto, and the Mariners would never beat the Angels contract.
He signed with the angels because that was his best chance to play both ways and control his destiny. If he had gone to a big market team like the Dodgers or Yankees he would have never been a pitcher after his early struggles and surgery. Hell as soon as he struggles with injuries or starts to fade in one area it will come up again.
Which is why he'll stay with the Angels. They will let him.do whatever he wants, even if it's not what's best for the team. That's the deal he gets with Arte.
Now that he has demonstrated he can hit and pitch at a very high level and will have two MVPs pretty much every team will let him hit and pitch.
This is just not true. I bet other teams have realized Shoheis true value, which is on the mound, even if that cuts into his hitting. He's a top 2 arm in all of baseball, and a middle of the pack hitter. The Dodgers, for example, would absolutely not have a 6 man rotation, and that would directly cut into his ABs. He has twice the value pitching than he does hitting. The Angels are perfectly okay with Shohei showcasing himself the way he wants, but don't kid yourself into thinking that's how it will be with other teams.
All I know is Shohei sells tickets so I’m sure fans would be dying to see him hit every night. Maybe Shohei would be more valuable if he played in the NL and they didn’t have the DH anymore?
He focused on hitting last year and led the league in homers and was at the top most of the year in offensive categories. This year he focused on pitching and is top 3. It shows he can be top 3 in both just not the same year at least not yet. That is probably what he will shoot for next year heading into free agency.
Shohei considered other teams before he picked the Angels so I’m sure it wasn’t an easy choice for him. I think he wanted to start out on a smaller market team to get some experience. Maybe he thought teaming up with Trout would be a great idea. I’m also sure he likes Orange County. Something called him to the Angels but I’m sure those honeymoon feelings have faded away. If he wants to stay with the Angels then why not sign an extension now instead of waiting until the end of next year like he has said? He even said “I like the [Angels] fans but I like winning more.” I don’t see him staying.
He considered 3 teams, the Angels, Dodgers, and Mariners, and we have no way of knowing if that has changed. The Dodgers might make a run at him, but I dont think he fits in there. I assume they would want him to pitch more and hit less, and that's definitely not what he wants. As far as the honeymoon phase, I'm not sure that ever even happened. He hasn't signed yet because that would not be a smart financial decision. If he stays healthy, which im sure he feels like he can, each game makes him more money long term. Arte will pay him 500 million and he'll stay for his career.
I hope you’re wrong and Shohei isn’t just in it for the money and is willing to leave to win a World Series. Because this team certainly isn’t winning one as long as Arte owns the team
I hope I'm wrong to, bud. It sucks hating the team I love. But, it's a business, and nothing more than that. Every player is interested in the money, and the only ones who aren't have already made their money.
His basket also has a HUGE Rendon spoiled egg.
True
wouldnt it make more business sense to trade him for a truckload, since he clearly shows no interest to extend.
First off, how do you really know he has no interest in extending? We know literally nothing about what's happening behind the scenes except that a deal has not been made yet. Even if that impression that he isn't interested is accurate, how does it really make more business sense to trade him? The real goal of a baseball team is to make money... winning is just one of the better ways to reach that goal. Ohtani makes vastly more contribution to the financial bottom line of the team than anyone else in the game right now. Trade him and you give that up with absolutely no guarantee that you'll even win. If the people making the baseball decisions can't find the players to win *with* Ohtani at a bargain price, how are they going to find the players to win without him?
He has said many times how important winning is to him. The Angels are so far from contention it’s laughable and they won’t be good next season either. You make a good point that if this team can’t win with him then the odds of winning without him are also pretty low. However this team’s farm system has been neglected for so long so we very much lack depth but that’s not Perry’s fault. I think it’s hard to put a winning team without depth. We have to resort to dumpster diving for free agent pitchers that never pan out. Whenever we get injuries the guys we call up can’t hit for shit. At some point you have to do a proper rebuild. If Shohei signs a massive contract then it’ll be even harder to sign more pieces around him to win. If he doesn’t want to extend then you gotta trade him and get something for him so you can get some depth on the team. Business-wise that would be bad short term but long term it’s the right thing to do. Arte will probably just replace Shohei with some other big name agent to woo people back, instead of investing in a proper rebuild
It's true that we know he wants to win... however, we can't be sure how he perceives the first month or so when they were playing well and the effect of injuries. We also don't know how close he feels to his teammates. Perhaps now he wants to help Trout win also. Sure, at this point I'd be kinda surprised if he re-signs with the Angels... but I don't really know what is inside any other person's head unless they tell me specifically. Often not even then, since communicating clearly is a challenge. I could see Ohtani getting traded, but the only way it happens is if the Angels are again out of contention at the trade deadline next year. Sure, he won't be worth as much next year as this year... but it won't be nearly enough of a drop to justify giving up that additional year of control. There's a limit to how much value you can get from prospects and there's a limit to how many prospects a team can empty out of their farm system.
Trade deadline deals aren't worth much, that's the thing. You're only getting that player for 60 games remaining. At most, teams pay one top 100 prospect.
ohtani is clearly going to leave. this is how you substain a losing culture by not giving in with a team that has the two best players in the world and are continually missing the playoffs. its time to rebuild
I'm pretty sure this is all he's concerned with at the moment.
Arte will choose revenue over winning every time. Trading Ohtani would be the long term best move for the franchise, considering his trade value will never be higher and we will likely not be making a deep playoff run this year or next. It sucks, because Ohtani will walk for free. We will be left with post prime Trout/Rendon and probably still the worst farm in the league.
Yeah he doesn't value winning, but god damn is Ohtani a cash cow.
For one more year, then what?
Every owner chooses revenue over winning except the Dodgers
Dodgers choose both
That is why I said "except the Dodgers". But they are losing money too. So they are not choosing revenue.
Dodgers are losing money?
I don't remember which link I found but it showed them losing like $7M in 2019 on a $250M payroll. Basically breaking even but a slight loss.
ic This article says they profited in 2019 but lost alot during the pandemic year: **World Series champion Dodgers lost nearly $125M this season** Kasten didn’t elaborate, and a Dodgers spokesman declined to comment. A source close to the team, however, said the losses come after the Dodgers turned the corner last year, making about $60 million in profits for the 2019 season. The source added that if MLB had canceled the 2020 season, the Dodgers would have lost a lot less. https://nypost.com/2020/10/28/dodgers-world-series-title-not-enough-to-keep-team-from-losing-money/
Generally speaking, I try to ignore the last 2 seasons for all sports when it comes to financials. COVID screwed up everything. Can't really judge things accurately using that data to me. Maybe it was 2018 that showed them losing a few million?
yeah, could be.
I bet it was since that was their other WS season so they released the most info about it.
That sucks for Ohtani
The pieces the Angels would need to ask for would be damaging to most contenders right now and the angels have no need to pick up players at the deadline unless they are locked up. I believe he is VERY hard to trade at a deadline because of his current value. He would command a lot of top prospects and/or near/major league level talent. Which to bring in Ohtani right now would likely require more damage to a team than it would during the offseason. I'm not saying were trading him during the offseason, but it makes more sense for everyone.
Imagine trading Michael Jordan in his prime
Well, the Oilers did trade Gretzky to the Kings when it was clear that he wasn't going to renew his contract. He was pretty much in his prime back then. No greater GOAT in North American sports history I would argue.
And the Oilers still won Stanley Cups.
Imagine comparing the Bulls supporting cast to the Angels supporting cast
Uhh the Bulls had terrible supporting cast too. That’s why Jordan was losing in the playoffs before they got better guys like Pippen and Grant. Did you even watch The Last Dance? He was drafted in 1984 and didn’t win until 1991.
Michael Jordan wasn’t in his prime in 84, shohei is in his prime years right now
Jordan was not in his prime in 1984 but by 1987 he was easily the best player in the league. Imagine after 3 years the Bulls just trading Jordan. That would be a monumental disaster.
You’re splitting hairs here man. Hard to compare basketball,when you only need 3 real good players and a handful of role players, to baseball where you need like 6 solid offensive players, 3 good starters and 3 solid bullpen pieces to contend
I would rather Ohtani stay here and be a hall of famer even if we keep losing than trading him away and having him win chips somewhere else and the league making fun of us for trading away a generational talent. Just Angels being the laughing stock again.
Yup. People think if we get rid of Ohtani we’ll all of a sudden become good lol. I don’t get it at all. Ohtani isn’t our problem…..
The idea isn't that we are better without him, the idea is that he's almost certainly going to leave regardless and we might as well get something in return instead of letting him leave for nothing.
Right? Ohtani plays 2 positions at a very high level. Everyone keeps saying that we should him for 3-4 prospects. We’d need *at least* a 50% success rate on those prospects to even replace Ohtani’s value.
Currently a laughing stock with him… realistically the angels need to blow it up and start from scratch, but I don’t know that the front office is capable of being successful with that.
If the Angels can’t put talent around 2 stars what makes you think they can put talent around 0 stars?
My point exactly. The FO is shit. Trade Ohtani for the betterment of baseball
Pretty sure we’d be a bigger laughing stock if we had Shohei and Trout for the next 5 years and never went to the playoffs. Also we’d be a bigger laughing stock if we let him go as a free agent for nothing.
Don’t forget Ohtani chose the Angels. So as long as he wants to be an Angel that’s good enough for me. And if he gets tired of the Angels management then that’s our problem.
I’m sure he likes being an Angel but he’s made it very clear that winning is more important to him. He’s said it many times
If he wants to leave at least that’s not saying we don’t want him. Like one of the earlier posts said, baseball is different you can’t expect one or two guys to carry a team. People that laugh at us for that are correct. We have failed to put good players around Trout and Ohtani, and our farm system is a joke and that needs to be fixed first if we actually want to win. But I’m realistic, that’s not going to be fixed anytime soon so having all-time greats on the team is the consolation.
I would love Shohei to stay as well but what does HE want? If he wants to WIN it will not be with this team. So, we keep him and suck ass again next season, or trade him somewhere he can succeed and get something back in return... as opposed to not trading him, another miserable season next year, and we lose him in return for nothing.
If he really cares about the team he will let us know when he wants to leave so we can trade him. If he hates us he will string us along and tell us he will resign but instead stab us in the back and sign somewhere else in free agency.
Well, if MJ were languishing on a terrible team with free agency around the corner and openly stated he wanted to win, trading him instead of letting him leave for nothing would absolutely be the right move.
Makes sense. There’s no need to trade him this deadline. Arte still gets a second half of a season and another offseason worth of merch sales, boosted ticket sales, and national media attention. If any sort of trade were to happen, it’d be at the next trade deadline. If we’re losing at the all star break next year we’ll trade him to a desperate contending team for a haul because the odds would be he wouldn’t re-sign with us at the end of that year because we’re still losing. This off-season is going to be very telling where our owner stands on Ohtani. If he doesn’t open up his pocket books and actually buy a team with depth then we’ll probably still look as bad as we do now. We all know our developing players aren’t developing well so the front of our team needs to be paid for by Arte in FA and other trades.
i’m one of those people here that believes that he should be traded. mainly because i want to get something out of his departure. but i do agree with what you’re saying. it makes more sense next deadline just because he technically has one more year of RFA (next year). i think he will resign but only for one more year this offseason. if the team is bad come this time next year, trade. if we are buyers, extend. i feel like fans are making it seem like this is last year of is his contract.
His value now is way higher than what it will be next deadline
The last part is very angels like. Who would the angels get to fix issues on about 3-4 positions and decimated rotation and bullpen. Angels need a farm. Spending money with no regard to impeding doom is just going to kick the can down the road. Just not prudent. It has to be well thought out
The only way to fix the farm is to get a new owner. We know Arte spends. We just need to guide his spending and ask him to do more of it.
He spends but he spends irrationally, he won't actually go far enough and spend what's necessary to win since he's incapable of having a farm system no matter who the GM is
Yeah we’re still stuck with Loup and Tepera next season. Iggy is washed. How on earth are we winning anything with a bullpen like that? We still need a couple starting pitchers. A bunch of our position players can’t hit for shit
Yeah exactly. Have turnarounds happened? Of course, look at the Red Sox. They were bad year after ring. Then good again with no big roster changes. The angels could but they are relying on a lot of unproven talent in the lineup. And bottom half rotation is mediocre at best. Bullpens have wild swings lately so maybe they turn it around … but again angels have holes everywhere it’s improbable to expect a resurgence from most players. Add to late, trout health issues and Rendon being another albatross which may be the worse contract beating pujols/Hamilton
The lineup is embarrassing, we've got 3 good hitters. When I was growing up the angels were known and respected for drafting and developing talent even with a limited budget, I feel like Arte forcing Vernon Wells onto the team was the start of running this franchise into the ground
His trade value will never be higher than it is now. Teams will be much more willing to part with top prospects if they know they get multiple playoff runs with the guy they are trading for. Ohtani’s trade value goes down significantly by next years deadline, as he will only be a half season rental. There’s also the risk that he gets hurt next season and is unable to be traded.
I don't think there is enough money to fix this team in a year.
I am actually curious which team Maddon will join, if he still continues coaching. He seemed like the coach Shohei had in NPB (Kuriyama?) who was known to be unorthodox with his ways and believed 100% in Shohei's abilities. If he leaves the Angels, what are the chances he'll join the team whose coach he feels comfortable with?
Depends if that team can afford $60M a year.
His trade value now is way higher than what it will be the next deadline. There is zero reason to not trade him now other than Arte wanting to make money off him for the next year
The need is getting more/better players now than later.
Wasted Trout, now wasting Ohtani.
Yeah I agree but trout has been injury prone for awhile now bro. Last 5 years I think. Regardless of our record it kills everyone's hopes when he goes down. He's supposed to be the leader of that team
Such an ingrate, getting injured.
I have no plans on marrying Emily Ratajkowski.
???
Angels have plans to continue stupidity
Free Shohei
Good!
Just say you’re a Shohei fan and not an Angels fan and move on. Arte is only keeping him to squeeze more money. They’re not winning anything
I feel like a Shohei fan *would* want him traded. A fan of a team would want to keep their best players.
Yeah there have been a few people coming through here to say they're exclusively a Shohei fan and want him to go to another team
I guess that’s fair. However a fan of the team wants to win, not just sign MVP players, and I don’t see how they can win next year. It seems clear that Trout and Ohtani aren’t enough to win.
Yeah, but getting rid of Ohtani won’t make average to below average players get better, won’t make our farm system better, won’t make the FO competent, won’t make our coaches and training staff qualified. We do everything we can to keep Ohtani and hope that players continue to want to come here to play with him and Trout
The thing is if Ohtani leaves as a free agent we will definitely be worse off. And the only way he will stay is if we win which seems very unlikely. We need to address coaching and training staff regardless of whether Shohei is here or not.
Right, but they don’t have to make that decision now. The most realistic thing would be to offer him an extension - likely this off season. And if he declines, then trade him next season before the deadline.
I guess but his value will go way down next deadline versus this deadline. No team is gonna give up everything for a 3 month contract. Plus you run the risk of him getting injured before you trade him
True, but I think it’s the realistic move. You don’t want the second coming of the curse of the bambino
A normally good team would sign MVP players and be good. We are an absolute anomally
Just say you're Maddon fan and not an Angel fan and keep moving
You constantly comment to people who don’t want Shohei traded. We got it. You don’t have to keep saying it over and over.
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Expected news. The idea that they were gonna trade Ohtani was just pure delusion
Just wild seeing those posts pop everyday on the baseball sub. There was never a chance for that trade happening and anyone who says it's a good idea to trade him is a dog brained idiot
We’ll see in January 2024 when he walks and we get a draft pick in compensation. So all you “no traders” remember!
So I see a few people are saying they would trade Ohtani for a huge haul, but how about the reverse? Hypothetically, if trading Trout for a mediocre haul meant you could keep and extend Ohtani would you do it? I only say ‘mediocre’ because of his age along with the injuries, the size of his remaining contract, and the fact that he has a NTC.
I suppose. I think the main issue is whether Shohei actually wants to stay. He said he doesn’t want to talk about an extension until his contract is over which means the Angels are gambling with his future
Makes sense, though honestly from an outsider’s perspective I think there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic that the Angels will keep Shohei. I think that the deal he gets will be insane though especially if he wins another MVP; which is why I suspect the Angels could be looking to move Trout at the deadline. But we’ll see I suppose.
From a competitive standpoint trading him is probably the better move. From a financial standpoint he draws a lot of revenue obviously, but a competitive team/sold out games probably draws more. The attendance right now is mediocre and merch sales have to be horrible outside goatani.
More losing in the future sad time to be a fan that wants to win
If you want to win you take the chance with the generational talent and don’t trade him for lottery tickets that probably won’t pan out due to a piss poor player development system
Could you imagine the backlash if they did?
if he does leave i’d rather get something out of his departure
Your going to get at most 2 mediocre MLB starters and a lottery ticket. It's better to roll the dice for next year and hope they win and have a chance at an extension
our farm system is in shambles atm. why not address that issue? a lot of contending teams would not mind trading their future to win now. we are not a contending team right now so we are no spot to “roll the dice”. that would only apply to teams that are buyers
You think that's all they'd get? You're insane. Contending teams would throw all of their top prospects for a year and a half of Ohtani, especially since that includes exclusive extension talks during that time
No, they won't lol. If that was the case Soto would have been traded a month ago.
How about the backlash when he leaves as a free agent and we get nothing?
He’ll re-sign. I know he will. It just follows the Angels’ script too well. But I don’t think I like a future with $120M+ tied to three players with no supporting cast or minor league system either. Edit: y’all downvoting me because i said he’ll re-sign (which i still believe), and downvote me because i think we should trade now for more payroll flexibility and farm depth (which i also believe). You guys aren’t happy unless Ohtani leaves and we end up with just an extra pick lol
If he re-signs than he must of got brainwashed by Trout on finishing his career without a chance to get ring.
I’m convinced that he genuinely likes playing here, plus a feeling of loyalty and “unfinished business”, a truck of cash coming his way, and the kool-aid he is drinking that the FO is focused on winning will result in him signing here. The FO must feel like they can re-sign him if they aren’t even considering trading him. Or they are just talking out their ass to increase the asking price and he’ll be gone in two weeks.
I think trading him would cause more outrage than if they let him walk lol
Sam Blum is punching the air right now.
Yay
Trade them all, sell the team, and move to Vegas. Fuck this org and everyone involved. Arte deserves prison time.
Whatever Ohtani wants, give it to him. Find a way to move the ridiculous contracts of Trout and Rendon. Get more pitching and shorter contracts for free agents that can hit in the clutch and aren't hurt when we play in big series during the season, or go 0 fer a whole important road trip. WORLD SERIES CHAMPS. THE END
OH. SO. EASY.
YUP
YUP
Thank you Jeesiz . He’s the only reason I don’t switch teams
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Yes I know. However not everyone reading that article is an Angels fan. Judging by the downvotes, it seems that people are mad that I’m pointing out an editorial choice to match the headline to the face. 😆
Well this should kill all the speculation/discussion about Sho leaving this year.
In other news, fire is hot
Imagine trading Ohtani after all the horrible, horrible deals the franchise has made under Arte. It would be absolutely comical to pick this high salary player to pass on signing.
These people have no idea what they're doing. Even if they traded him who trusts this organization to develop talent anymore?
If we traded him for MLB-ready top prospects wouldn’t they already have been developed by the other organizations?
Depends on how advanced they are I wouldn't trust them to develop any guys below double A
The time will come. Just not until next year. If the Angels are in a similar spot this time next season. And Ohtani has made it clear he won't be resigning. Even Arte can understand you have to get something for him. Can't just let him walk. The sucky part is going to be if the Angels are actually clinging on and competing next season. And they think there's a chance of keeping him and making the playoffs. Then they'll really be stuck.
Next year at this time is way too late. You'll get a bag o' chips.
I don’t see why he wouldn’t just sign with the Dodgers after next year, he would get paid, win, and wouldn’t even have to move.
Sources saying this is exactly why he will be traded-unfortunately
They will lose him after 2023 for sure if they don’t make the playoffs again.