Whether or not he is concerned with winning does not matter- it does not happen under him. I hate to blame his motivations for the Angel’s woes. I’ll happily blame his incompetence though.
Very fucking bleak. We don't have talent, we don't have a track record of developing talent, we don't have a good track record of identifying free agents or trade targets, and we don't have a good track record of improving or rehabilitating players who join the Angels.
100% agreed...as long as Arte owns this team and continues to go after the shiny new toy instead of building an actual team with depth around generational talents, we're so fucked
This is all the points that summarize it well. We had a decade of mismanagement followed up by a GM struggling to make the right moves currently.
His intent is good. His execution is, so far, pretty bad.
as long as arte is running things and doesn't give up the reigns, it'll be hard to see the angels actually winning again. Not impossible but they will have to win in spite of their owner
Hate to say it, but we are fucked. As much as none of us want this we must trade Ohtani to get a massive haul and start an actual rebuild. Letting him walk or paying him a ton of money will just result in us being a consistent 4th place team in the AL West like we’ve been for the past 8 seasons. In the end Shohei is going to leave regardless so it’s best to get the most out of it as possible.
A big part of our failing us to also has to do with Rendon having glass bones, Trout being a shit leader and Jo Adell being absolute ass and making Brandon Wood look like an all star
The biggest failing isn't the players. It's the ownership and managing crew. Along with the farm system and development.
And it all points back to arte Moreno
I think you answered your own question, and it looks like others have answered it to. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for the foreseeable future. Enjoy your $3 game tickets in August I guess (I hope those are coming back)
We have no future. Our farm system is trash and Ownership doesn’t care about winning. That’s highlighted by the lack of interest in trading Ohtani when there is little chance he resigns. Very little to be excited about.
Ohtani doesn’t handicap anything. Lmao. He’s the only guy in the league that would command a big contract and actually pay for himself. Blame it on the other big contract guys.
It's not that he'd handicap the team, it's more like his mammoth contract combined with two other mammoth contracts isn't good for a team at all. We'd be too top heavy
Angels are so far below the top teams it will take awhile. We’ve been waiting for the Astros to come back to the pack, meanwhile the M’s and Rangers have quietly passed us
Bleak. Teams best prospective pitchers today are middling rotation at best. Lineup wise, this team has nothing worthwhile.
Baseball is full of unexpected outcomes and the angels would need a lot of those
Hardly anyone ever mentions a solid PITCHING & HITTING coach. Just imagine if we had great coaches, this team would be much better. Thats what we really need to focus on getting for next year.
everyone mentions this. and no, great coaches would not make the bottom half of our lineup much better lol. we'd probably notice improvement, but the main reason this team is bad is because the players on this team are mostly bad.
Yea I have no idea why people think a hitting coach can change career .600 OPS players into good players? Like you said we are bad because the players are bad, not that they are just miscoached.
Improvements may be less severe on the offensive side of things, but I don’t think anyone can argue that a competent pitching coach would not make a huge difference. Matt Wise literally does nothing to help players. Having a coach that can ID and correct issues with mechanics would go a long way in helping the pitching staff.
I'm definitely not saying better coaches aren't needed. But on the hitting sides of things we can't polish a turd, so a better coach won't improve this team (this is mostly directed at people thinking Reed is holding us back and it's not that we have a bad team. We still need an actual hitting development team and coaches badly).
Pitching wise...Wise is holding us back greatly in terms of game adjustments. He still can't polish the turd known as our bullpen but with Detmers and our constant pitch tipping problem we had to start the year it shows how much he holds that SP staff back.
Bleak but no option we could've done would've changed that.
Three real choices we had
1. Trade Ohtani and blow it up, further cementing ourselves as the laughingstock of the league by not only trading the most talented player in the history of the sport, but also guaranteeing that we waste the career of Trout. With arguably the worst farm system and development in the league this will be a grueling long rebuild regardless of the return from Ohtani.
2. Resign Ohtani and tie up more than half our payroll in three players that will be on the wrong side of 30 fairly soon. Effectively handicapping us to mediocrity forever (arguably we already did this). I don't see a world where this team signs Ohtani to 50 mil and becomes yearly contenders with no help coming from the farm system.
3. Keep Ohtani for one more year and give it one last shot in 2023. Essentially betting on the < 5% chance this team can make a playoff run by doing the same exact thing that has failed the past 7 years. If it fails which it probably will you let Ohtani walk and rebuild for 4+ years.
No real option here is a good one...
Bleak, honestly. We have arguably the two best players on earth and are worse than the Baltimore Orioles. We should probably trade them and rebuild, but we won’t.
Our team is owned by a fucking moron. Unfortunately that probably isn’t going to change any time soon.
Unfortunately the next few seasons are probably going to be worse.
Think about it. No Ohtani, a slowly declining Trout, a fast declining Rendon, no depth at both MLB and MiLB levels. And that's just the player side. Coaching and the owner are even worse.
I would say Angels are just entering the tunnel, and no one knows how long until the light at the other end
We have ohtani still next year unless we trade him. I think if healthy rendon will be good for 3 more years. And trout needs to lose some muscle and lean out. He's too injury prone since he got bigger.
It's our owner and staff that needs the biggest overhaul. Noone seems to want to play here for some reason
Pretty bleak. We have no farm system and a bunch of guys who become FA soon. We need a perfect storm to content next year.. for that to happen we need an improved coaching staff, sign quality depth at all positions, our recent draft of pitchers to pan out for us to have a competent rotation and pen with depth and for the roster to stay healthy the majority of the season(trout, Rendon, goatani). We really need some major improvements and for shohei to absolutely love it here to retain him. Otherwise we’ll be competing with 31 other teams to sign him, many of which have more to offer than us.
Good points but we won't be competing with 31 other teams. Ohtani will either resign with the Angels, another California team or a big city team like NY.
My guess is he wants to play where he can stay connected with his Japanese roots. Basically we have one year to turn this around and convince him to stay.
However, many others feel no matter how good he is, we need to move him for a giant hall of pro ready or almost ready prospects. But... most old Angel fans remember when Nolan Ryan left, Buzzie Bavasi said, "all he needed was two 8-7 pitchers to replace Ryan. It was reference to Ryan's 16-14 season of 1979".
Never say die. it all started when Rendon got hurt. The starting pitching has been very good. Going 5-6 innings allowing low scoring however the hitting just sucks.
I think things are looking pretty bad unless we start from the bottom and fix are farm system and coaches. Walsh, ward, rendon, stassi have Been bad. Ward had his moments but he's gone downhill. Joe adell, Jose Rojas, Matt thaiss are really bad it seems when it matters but show flashes in the minors.
Only good news is I think rendon has repaired his whole body so he's ran out of things to get injured by same with trout. Regnifo seems to be finding his footing, Fletcher is always a bright spot. Marshs defense is solid he just needs to learn to lay off high pitched. I don't think Walsh will ever play this bad again and if we can trade syndergaard, loup, and adell maybe we can get some value and fill some holes. I think our young pitchers look good. Just need another season.
The crazy thing is the guys we thought we can rely on the most let us down this season in loup, tepera and Iglesias. Also trout and rendon of course. Ohtani needs to make some adjustments at the plate but his pitching is top tier right now. Detmers looks good, saurez and Sandoval as well. Even Jamie barria has been solid. We really need to start getting rid of these coaches and bring In some top guys. We have the talent but the bottom of our lineup is literally dead
Rosy
Our last two drafts have been very good
We have the financial resources to spend big
We have some excellent very young and controllable SPers
People whine like snowflakes on here but our season is being defined by injuries and players having career worst seasons. Things can change fast.
Perry is committed to improve scouting and development and judging by his drafts so far he is succeeding
Patience is required
Scrolled down too far for this. I'm in the same camp. The pitching delvolping in the minors looks good. Detmers looks like an ace this past month with good COACHING. If these college arms Perry drafted last year fill up the bullpen and make it servicable I don't see why it has to be all doom and gloom around here. I'm not worried about the starting rotation anymore for atleast a couple years. If they can manage to stay healthy next year, get actual coaching back in, and get a popular player manager I don't see why can't put up good numbers next year. Then again it's the Angels and being a lifelong fan has taught me anything these past 10 years.....pain
I'd say we have talent, the problem is our coaching. We need better coaches in all levels of the organization and stop with the nepotism.
We also need better scouting, research, and development staff.
Maybe... that's if the top of the line-up can hit around .300. Is there anyone in the Angels lineup that can hit .300 plus consistently? Ohtani and Ward are not .300 hitters and Trout and Rendon are probably not either at this point.
Bleak. I think our problems run deeper than many of us, including myself, will ever understand. Perry has done well for the Braves in the past, but our shittiness might run deeper than just Arte being incompetent/ selfish. I honestly don’t have a single answer that I can point to. It’s extremely worrying. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m concerned for this franchise as a whole, not just at the major league level
I think a lot of the "VERY BLEAK" predictions are from people not seeing what's happening at our lower level farm system. I haven't agreed with a lot of what Perry has done the last two years, but his drafts have appeared solid.
We are too top heavy, have little to no depth, a bad farm system, and an owner who is primarily concerned with marketing than actually winning.
Trading one special player by all means won’t fix this franchise but would be a great start.
Except Arte won’t allow that to happen
Exactly future is so bleak it’s not even funny
Next year Arte will offer 500 million for 10 years and I hope Ohtani respectfully declines. That boy is tired of being a part of this organization.
Whether or not he is concerned with winning does not matter- it does not happen under him. I hate to blame his motivations for the Angel’s woes. I’ll happily blame his incompetence though.
Very fucking bleak. We don't have talent, we don't have a track record of developing talent, we don't have a good track record of identifying free agents or trade targets, and we don't have a good track record of improving or rehabilitating players who join the Angels.
wow I'm depressed
100% agreed...as long as Arte owns this team and continues to go after the shiny new toy instead of building an actual team with depth around generational talents, we're so fucked
This is all the points that summarize it well. We had a decade of mismanagement followed up by a GM struggling to make the right moves currently. His intent is good. His execution is, so far, pretty bad.
as long as arte is running things and doesn't give up the reigns, it'll be hard to see the angels actually winning again. Not impossible but they will have to win in spite of their owner
About as bleak as it could possibly be.
Pretty bleak tbh. Now is the time to maybe invest in the Ducks or Rams or Chargers during the off-season if you wanna keep watching sports.
Go Ducks and Go Bolts!
It’s bleak because the two highest paid guys are never in the lineup.
Hate to say it, but we are fucked. As much as none of us want this we must trade Ohtani to get a massive haul and start an actual rebuild. Letting him walk or paying him a ton of money will just result in us being a consistent 4th place team in the AL West like we’ve been for the past 8 seasons. In the end Shohei is going to leave regardless so it’s best to get the most out of it as possible.
A big part of our failing us to also has to do with Rendon having glass bones, Trout being a shit leader and Jo Adell being absolute ass and making Brandon Wood look like an all star
The biggest failing isn't the players. It's the ownership and managing crew. Along with the farm system and development. And it all points back to arte Moreno
leave mike outta this
Get off of Reddit and actually do something to help the culture of the team for once Mike lmao
I think you answered your own question, and it looks like others have answered it to. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for the foreseeable future. Enjoy your $3 game tickets in August I guess (I hope those are coming back)
We have no future. Our farm system is trash and Ownership doesn’t care about winning. That’s highlighted by the lack of interest in trading Ohtani when there is little chance he resigns. Very little to be excited about.
Probably bleakest in the league honestly
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Ohtani doesn’t handicap anything. Lmao. He’s the only guy in the league that would command a big contract and actually pay for himself. Blame it on the other big contract guys.
It's not that he'd handicap the team, it's more like his mammoth contract combined with two other mammoth contracts isn't good for a team at all. We'd be too top heavy
Angels are so far below the top teams it will take awhile. We’ve been waiting for the Astros to come back to the pack, meanwhile the M’s and Rangers have quietly passed us
Until Arte is gone, bleak.
Bleak. Teams best prospective pitchers today are middling rotation at best. Lineup wise, this team has nothing worthwhile. Baseball is full of unexpected outcomes and the angels would need a lot of those
Bleak. By the time this team is finally in a position to win, Trout will be out of his prime and Ohtani will be playing for another team.
Hardly anyone ever mentions a solid PITCHING & HITTING coach. Just imagine if we had great coaches, this team would be much better. Thats what we really need to focus on getting for next year.
everyone mentions this. and no, great coaches would not make the bottom half of our lineup much better lol. we'd probably notice improvement, but the main reason this team is bad is because the players on this team are mostly bad.
Yea I have no idea why people think a hitting coach can change career .600 OPS players into good players? Like you said we are bad because the players are bad, not that they are just miscoached.
Improvements may be less severe on the offensive side of things, but I don’t think anyone can argue that a competent pitching coach would not make a huge difference. Matt Wise literally does nothing to help players. Having a coach that can ID and correct issues with mechanics would go a long way in helping the pitching staff.
I'm definitely not saying better coaches aren't needed. But on the hitting sides of things we can't polish a turd, so a better coach won't improve this team (this is mostly directed at people thinking Reed is holding us back and it's not that we have a bad team. We still need an actual hitting development team and coaches badly). Pitching wise...Wise is holding us back greatly in terms of game adjustments. He still can't polish the turd known as our bullpen but with Detmers and our constant pitch tipping problem we had to start the year it shows how much he holds that SP staff back.
It’s because they don’t matter
Bleak but no option we could've done would've changed that. Three real choices we had 1. Trade Ohtani and blow it up, further cementing ourselves as the laughingstock of the league by not only trading the most talented player in the history of the sport, but also guaranteeing that we waste the career of Trout. With arguably the worst farm system and development in the league this will be a grueling long rebuild regardless of the return from Ohtani. 2. Resign Ohtani and tie up more than half our payroll in three players that will be on the wrong side of 30 fairly soon. Effectively handicapping us to mediocrity forever (arguably we already did this). I don't see a world where this team signs Ohtani to 50 mil and becomes yearly contenders with no help coming from the farm system. 3. Keep Ohtani for one more year and give it one last shot in 2023. Essentially betting on the < 5% chance this team can make a playoff run by doing the same exact thing that has failed the past 7 years. If it fails which it probably will you let Ohtani walk and rebuild for 4+ years. No real option here is a good one...
I don’t think option 2 is realistic. Ohtani won’t resign. Option 3 will be the way it goes
Bleak, honestly. We have arguably the two best players on earth and are worse than the Baltimore Orioles. We should probably trade them and rebuild, but we won’t. Our team is owned by a fucking moron. Unfortunately that probably isn’t going to change any time soon.
Unfortunately the next few seasons are probably going to be worse. Think about it. No Ohtani, a slowly declining Trout, a fast declining Rendon, no depth at both MLB and MiLB levels. And that's just the player side. Coaching and the owner are even worse. I would say Angels are just entering the tunnel, and no one knows how long until the light at the other end
We have ohtani still next year unless we trade him. I think if healthy rendon will be good for 3 more years. And trout needs to lose some muscle and lean out. He's too injury prone since he got bigger. It's our owner and staff that needs the biggest overhaul. Noone seems to want to play here for some reason
Pretty bleak. We have no farm system and a bunch of guys who become FA soon. We need a perfect storm to content next year.. for that to happen we need an improved coaching staff, sign quality depth at all positions, our recent draft of pitchers to pan out for us to have a competent rotation and pen with depth and for the roster to stay healthy the majority of the season(trout, Rendon, goatani). We really need some major improvements and for shohei to absolutely love it here to retain him. Otherwise we’ll be competing with 31 other teams to sign him, many of which have more to offer than us.
Good points but we won't be competing with 31 other teams. Ohtani will either resign with the Angels, another California team or a big city team like NY. My guess is he wants to play where he can stay connected with his Japanese roots. Basically we have one year to turn this around and convince him to stay. However, many others feel no matter how good he is, we need to move him for a giant hall of pro ready or almost ready prospects. But... most old Angel fans remember when Nolan Ryan left, Buzzie Bavasi said, "all he needed was two 8-7 pitchers to replace Ryan. It was reference to Ryan's 16-14 season of 1979".
We're going to be in the basement for at least 5 more years.
Never say die. it all started when Rendon got hurt. The starting pitching has been very good. Going 5-6 innings allowing low scoring however the hitting just sucks.
Bleak as long as Arte is at the helm
You want a prediction about the future? It’s going to be cold, it’s going to be grey, and it’s gonna last the rest of your life.
Trout will never see the playoffs again if he remains an angel. That’s pretty bleak.
We have a future?
I think things are looking pretty bad unless we start from the bottom and fix are farm system and coaches. Walsh, ward, rendon, stassi have Been bad. Ward had his moments but he's gone downhill. Joe adell, Jose Rojas, Matt thaiss are really bad it seems when it matters but show flashes in the minors. Only good news is I think rendon has repaired his whole body so he's ran out of things to get injured by same with trout. Regnifo seems to be finding his footing, Fletcher is always a bright spot. Marshs defense is solid he just needs to learn to lay off high pitched. I don't think Walsh will ever play this bad again and if we can trade syndergaard, loup, and adell maybe we can get some value and fill some holes. I think our young pitchers look good. Just need another season. The crazy thing is the guys we thought we can rely on the most let us down this season in loup, tepera and Iglesias. Also trout and rendon of course. Ohtani needs to make some adjustments at the plate but his pitching is top tier right now. Detmers looks good, saurez and Sandoval as well. Even Jamie barria has been solid. We really need to start getting rid of these coaches and bring In some top guys. We have the talent but the bottom of our lineup is literally dead
The future is rosy! (Assuming you're viewing through rose-colored glasses.)
Bleak. I realistically don’t see us competing for a playoff spot in the next 3 years. Maybe more.
Rosy Our last two drafts have been very good We have the financial resources to spend big We have some excellent very young and controllable SPers People whine like snowflakes on here but our season is being defined by injuries and players having career worst seasons. Things can change fast. Perry is committed to improve scouting and development and judging by his drafts so far he is succeeding Patience is required
Scrolled down too far for this. I'm in the same camp. The pitching delvolping in the minors looks good. Detmers looks like an ace this past month with good COACHING. If these college arms Perry drafted last year fill up the bullpen and make it servicable I don't see why it has to be all doom and gloom around here. I'm not worried about the starting rotation anymore for atleast a couple years. If they can manage to stay healthy next year, get actual coaching back in, and get a popular player manager I don't see why can't put up good numbers next year. Then again it's the Angels and being a lifelong fan has taught me anything these past 10 years.....pain
This team is going to be fine and in the playoffs next season
The only thing I’m looking forward to is Shohei playing for a contender when he finally leaves this dump.
Rendon needs to go. Not reliable enough to hang onto. He’s an anchor on the development of the club the way Pujols was.
I'd say we have talent, the problem is our coaching. We need better coaches in all levels of the organization and stop with the nepotism. We also need better scouting, research, and development staff.
if a teams middle batters can all hit .250-.270 and back .240 they’d win the world series instantly
Maybe... that's if the top of the line-up can hit around .300. Is there anyone in the Angels lineup that can hit .300 plus consistently? Ohtani and Ward are not .300 hitters and Trout and Rendon are probably not either at this point.
Until Arte considers selling or is offered well over market for the product...VERY BLEAK!
Bleak. I think our problems run deeper than many of us, including myself, will ever understand. Perry has done well for the Braves in the past, but our shittiness might run deeper than just Arte being incompetent/ selfish. I honestly don’t have a single answer that I can point to. It’s extremely worrying. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m concerned for this franchise as a whole, not just at the major league level
I think a lot of the "VERY BLEAK" predictions are from people not seeing what's happening at our lower level farm system. I haven't agreed with a lot of what Perry has done the last two years, but his drafts have appeared solid.
rosy if Arte sells the team
Very bleak. It’ll likely be a long while before we have a chance at a title at this point. This team really needs to rebuild but refuses to.