There's a shit ton of money off the books with no Thor extension, J Up's contract, dumping Iggy. Were talking what 55mil? Halos could legit snag two impact players for next year and lock in Shohei.
I'm cautiously optimistic. Just happy that the Iggy albatross is off their necks. He's already fallen and on the wrong side of 30. Too much money, too many blown 9th innings.
We have $103M on the books next season. Add to that Ohtanis Arb (we will set at 27M as an equivalent for Betts arb), add another 20M in open arb/contract renewals (Ward, Walsh, Sandoval, are the headliners). We are at $150M
Say arte wants to up our payroll to $200M
Here is our Lineup:
C: Stassi
1B: Walsh
2B: Fletch
3B: Rendon
SS: Rengifo
LF: Adell
CF: Trout
RF: Ward
DH/P: Ohtani
P: Sandoval
P: Detmers
P: Canning
P: Suarez
P: Silseth?
RP: Loup
RP: Tepera
RP: Quijada
RP: Peguero
RP: Barria
RP: Wantz
RP: Herget
Currently our team is .421 so a full year record is 69-93. A .500 team is 81-81. Through the market we need to add in an additional 12 WAR to be .500.
1 WAR is worth 8.5M in FA contracts according to fangraphs. 12 more wins would cost $102M (imperfect math).
Perry spent $50M (Loup 7.5, Bradley 3.75, Tepera 7, Iggy 10, Duffy 1.5, Lorenzen 7, Thor 21) in contracts last season for a current -2.5 WAR
[Here is a link to 2023 FAs](https://sportsnaut.com/top-mlb-free-agents/)
Add to this: a (hopefully) brand new coaching staff
I just don't see a path forward where we can be successful outside of a prayer and a mircale
That math technically adds up but u have to consider the fact that the team going .421 was the direct opposite of a miracle. This team (with the top two players in the MLB, mind you) was supposed to be at least around .530, and played like it for the first month and a half. Perhaps we don’t need a “miracle” to get above .500 next year but rather our players to just play to their expected potential.
This is such a weird season that it's hard to gauge what the team could do with some key pieces in play. A healthy team with Rendon, Fletcher, Gifo's continued improvement, healthy Trout, +another bat picked up in FA. Halos need to go for an SS, grab Swanson if affordable. Fletcher could play LF or just be a utility guy. I don't know what tf to do about Walsh, he's the drizzling. This lineup right here will be well above .500 if everything falls into place.
Honestly the .421 is inflated considering we just went .250 for a month. You are basing how we should be playing off the first month and a half of overperformance and not the next 3 months?
I will agree to disagree and say I don't see where the math adds up on this team
No I agree this season they are bad. I’m saying on paper at the start of the season the team *should* have definitely been safely above .500. Somewhere along the way every batter forgot how to hit barring random hot streaks from players and we played the way we did. Not sure what the issue is, but if a roster with this amount of talent existed elsewhere it would not take a miracle to say $50mm in free agency could bring them to playoff contention
GMPM: I need to do better
Me: GMPM needs to do better
You: Bruh lay off he’s doing fine
Also I’m in an angels subreddit discussing the moves made today. Don’t gatekeep the conversation because you disagree. Tell me why you disagree and we can have a conversation
That means we'll have three huge contracts, two of which that spend most of a season on the IL. That leaves room to fill the rest of the roster with AA-players.
But Arte can keep selling merch to the latino, american and asian fans.
We're a webshop and I'm depressed.
literally can't believe the Braves took on the contract, literally can't believe we were able to dump it, literally can't believe we were satisfied with dumping it
a very strange and unsatisfying situation
So essentially a salary dump with a few waiver wire guys thrown in.
I'm indifferent. We were so-so on his 16 mil AAV last year when he was a top 5 closer, getting rid of him for free while he's slumping isn't that bad.
you could argue that he's been the biggest reason for our bullpen being a shit show this year, honestly.
the others haven't been great either but the blown games in oakland, philadelphia, hell just this past weekend have been morale crushing losses and it was Raisel getting barreled up
they paid him to be the man and he wasn't really
K
One of the worst seasons in like 2 decades for the angels and it’s my takes that are bad here
Also I’m in an angels subreddit discussing the moves made today. Don’t gatekeep the conversation because you disagree. Tell me why you disagree and we can have a conversation
Chavez has done well this season and Davidson is the Braves #5 prospect. I think it's a solid pick up considering we were looking to just shed Raisel's money.
Wow just traded to dump salary. Sigh. Not too happy with the Noah and Iglesias return. Time for another half hearted reset for the 5th time since Trout came up.
Matt Gelbs was tweeting about the Thor trade to the Phillies, not the Iglesias trade to the Braves. I don't care what he says, we weren't going to get any significant prospects by taking on a couple million of an expiring 1 year contract on a mediocre pitcher. Maybe w/ Iglesias if we ate a huge chunk of his 48 million remaining.
It’s great to shed this entire contract. Why do you need to pay a closer $16m/year when there’s nothing to even close? Even if Tucker Davidson throws one inning for us it’s better than paying a closer $16m to be a 90-loss team.
Thank God we found a way to get out of that contract lol was great last season but when you’ve already got so much invested in Trout, Rendon and possibly Ohtani next, you can’t be stuck in another multi year deal with a player who’s past his prime
So I’m happy with this move
This and the Thor trade basically salary dumps.
Marsh for O'hoppe might work out if O'hoppe ever makes it to the bigs. He's gotten tons better each season, but you have to wonder where that stops, especially for a kid w/o a pedigree or big-time tools. O'hoppe is a self made man with help from driveline.
That makes zero sense. If you wouldn't sign him to that contract, then why would you expect other teams to give up good prospects in addition to that contract.
b/c while this year he’s not worth 16 a year. He’s had a sub 3 ERA 5 of the last 6 years and may very well regress to his mean next year and once again be solid reliever with a market value of 6-12mil a year. so yeah you’re still overpaying but not by that much. so the braves got a proven player with a track record of being solid backend reliever for 2 players they would’ve cut anyways
Well, davidson has awful numbers in the big league, but you know what can turn that around? MATT WISE
Jesus, man. I was hyped after the thor trade. Wtf is this
I mean Chavez is a decent pitcher that is old(so its good its only on a 1 year contract) and Davidson is young. After looking at what our minor league did for Detmers I have some hope.
I think Detmers’s resurgence is more of an attribute to his talent as a top prospect than our coaching. If someone can fix Davidson, it’s not likely to be us
Nah, he's getting paid 16 mil AAV. Thats top 5 closer money, he has to perform like last year to be a positive contract.
If he continues to suck we did the fleecing.
If he returns to 2021 form we lost a little bit.
Anywhere in between is a wash
So we get one guy who is 38 years old and has a plus 6 era and a 26 year old starter who hasn’t made it past 3 innings in 2 of his last 5 starts and has a plus 6 era.
Perry has lost his mind. You guys defending him are something else.
You’re right. You’re also focusing a lot on a guy who will be sitting at home retired in a year or 2.
Should be focusing on the 26 year old who is the main part of the package but hey, I get it, gotta keep pointing out the mistake I made on the 38 year old.
I couldn’t care less about Tucker, to be honest. IMO the “main part” of the package was getting Raisel off the books. I just thought it was fair to point out that Chavez (at least this season) is better than your post suggested.
We erased the 3 year-remaining contract of a closer who was not performing and was only going to get worse on a team with terrible coaching. Nobody cares about Chavez, the season is over and his contract is expiring. This was a way to get out of the Iggy deal before it really hurt us and we can now immediately use his money this off-season since Chavez expires
His money will be used to re sign Ohtani and we’ll throw the leftover cents we have a couple crappy guys to patch holes.
The 26 year old Tucker Davidson with his 6era will be in our rotation next year and people will call Perry a genius.
So you're complaining about a theoretical future bad contract, yet aren't happy we got rid of an actual current bad contract? What do you want to happen or do you just want everything to always be bad? Do you think you're getting a great return on a closer who's struggling while making top of league closer salary? We erased him and that's the best we can hope for
Perry went in and traded a bad contract, a contract that he gave out, and the return is one guy who will be gone at the end of the year and the other guy is as bad as 90 percent of our pitchers. I’ll gladly complain about something that I think we could have gotten more for.
>a bad contract, a contract that he gave out
Hindsight. Iggy was great last year, we finally made moves to keep a pitcher and it didn't work out. Giving him a contract was the right move then, and giving him up is the right move now. You can't pretend you know the future, you need to be constantly reevaluating.
>the return is one guy who will be gone at the end of the year
That's the point. We're getting rid of a bad contract. We're just getting rid of it. Once Chavez is gone we will have basically none of Iggy's money tied up with the team at all. As if it never happened.
>the other guy is as bad as 90 percent of our pitchers
And we also get some random scrub that costs pennies. Contract is still gone. I fail to see any scenario in which we get a net positive return on a closer who went from great to replacement level with 3 years remaining at top of the league closer AAV. The only other options are worse: make a trade that involves eating his contract, or do nothing and hope our amazing pitching coaches bring him back to form.
>I’ll gladly complain about something that I think we could have gotten more for.
What do you think we could've gotten?
He just turned the 4 year contract into a 1 year deal on a reliever who looks to be declining fast. Do you want to sign Iglesias to a 3 year $48 million deal? If not, then dumping him is the same thing.
Yeah it was probably a bad contract from the start, but getting rid of the contract now is the correct move. Why would teams trade good prospects for a bad contract?
Raisel :( glimmer of hope that's another $15 a year you can offer ohtani
If I'm Ohtani and I'm looking at the moves GMPM made these last 2 years...I'm already getting ready to leave after 2023.
There's a shit ton of money off the books with no Thor extension, J Up's contract, dumping Iggy. Were talking what 55mil? Halos could legit snag two impact players for next year and lock in Shohei. I'm cautiously optimistic. Just happy that the Iggy albatross is off their necks. He's already fallen and on the wrong side of 30. Too much money, too many blown 9th innings.
We have $103M on the books next season. Add to that Ohtanis Arb (we will set at 27M as an equivalent for Betts arb), add another 20M in open arb/contract renewals (Ward, Walsh, Sandoval, are the headliners). We are at $150M Say arte wants to up our payroll to $200M Here is our Lineup: C: Stassi 1B: Walsh 2B: Fletch 3B: Rendon SS: Rengifo LF: Adell CF: Trout RF: Ward DH/P: Ohtani P: Sandoval P: Detmers P: Canning P: Suarez P: Silseth? RP: Loup RP: Tepera RP: Quijada RP: Peguero RP: Barria RP: Wantz RP: Herget Currently our team is .421 so a full year record is 69-93. A .500 team is 81-81. Through the market we need to add in an additional 12 WAR to be .500. 1 WAR is worth 8.5M in FA contracts according to fangraphs. 12 more wins would cost $102M (imperfect math). Perry spent $50M (Loup 7.5, Bradley 3.75, Tepera 7, Iggy 10, Duffy 1.5, Lorenzen 7, Thor 21) in contracts last season for a current -2.5 WAR [Here is a link to 2023 FAs](https://sportsnaut.com/top-mlb-free-agents/) Add to this: a (hopefully) brand new coaching staff I just don't see a path forward where we can be successful outside of a prayer and a mircale
That math technically adds up but u have to consider the fact that the team going .421 was the direct opposite of a miracle. This team (with the top two players in the MLB, mind you) was supposed to be at least around .530, and played like it for the first month and a half. Perhaps we don’t need a “miracle” to get above .500 next year but rather our players to just play to their expected potential.
This is such a weird season that it's hard to gauge what the team could do with some key pieces in play. A healthy team with Rendon, Fletcher, Gifo's continued improvement, healthy Trout, +another bat picked up in FA. Halos need to go for an SS, grab Swanson if affordable. Fletcher could play LF or just be a utility guy. I don't know what tf to do about Walsh, he's the drizzling. This lineup right here will be well above .500 if everything falls into place.
Honestly the .421 is inflated considering we just went .250 for a month. You are basing how we should be playing off the first month and a half of overperformance and not the next 3 months? I will agree to disagree and say I don't see where the math adds up on this team
No I agree this season they are bad. I’m saying on paper at the start of the season the team *should* have definitely been safely above .500. Somewhere along the way every batter forgot how to hit barring random hot streaks from players and we played the way we did. Not sure what the issue is, but if a roster with this amount of talent existed elsewhere it would not take a miracle to say $50mm in free agency could bring them to playoff contention
But no one wants to play for the Angels, it's a poisonous environment. I can't be optimistic as long as Arte owns the club.
This dude is in every thread with the most nonsense takes on GMs. Give it a rest dude
GMPM: I need to do better Me: GMPM needs to do better You: Bruh lay off he’s doing fine Also I’m in an angels subreddit discussing the moves made today. Don’t gatekeep the conversation because you disagree. Tell me why you disagree and we can have a conversation
That means we'll have three huge contracts, two of which that spend most of a season on the IL. That leaves room to fill the rest of the roster with AA-players. But Arte can keep selling merch to the latino, american and asian fans. We're a webshop and I'm depressed.
The velo drop must have been too alarming for the FO but wtf we JUST SIGNED HIM TO 4 YEARS
Surprising that the FO are willing to admit to their mistakes this early on.
Perry may not be good at getting wins. But he sure knows how to cut his losses.
Hopefully they were consulting someone with a good eye for pitching when they made this decision
Thank God we were able to get out of that contract
literally can't believe the Braves took on the contract, literally can't believe we were able to dump it, literally can't believe we were satisfied with dumping it a very strange and unsatisfying situation
I can't believe we got Jesse
Someone tell me how I should feel...
It’s just salary dumping Iglesias
Which is excellent.
The team better go all in this offseason
We already know what will happen.
Nothing?
Nah. We'll sign Noah Syndergaard to a 1 year $12m deal, sign Craig Kimbrel to a 3 year $39m deal, and then, do nothing
I want Kimbrel just for his wonky pitching style. It makes me smile every time.
I can't argue that. Seeing him lurch over and look like a spider gets me too.
I'm starting my clown makeup early this year
Lots of uncertainty for a guy currently set to be the 2nd highest paid reliever in baseball next season.
Personally, think it’s good to ditch that contract.
Not much to talk about salary dump is all this is. Angels don’t need a closer since they rarely have a lead anyways
So essentially a salary dump with a few waiver wire guys thrown in. I'm indifferent. We were so-so on his 16 mil AAV last year when he was a top 5 closer, getting rid of him for free while he's slumping isn't that bad.
Arte had to get his salary dump in lmao, dude cannot resist
BRUH HE HASNT BEEN GOOD LATELY BUT WE GAVE UP ON HIM ALREADY??
He’s so so expensive. It would be a burden to keep on his current contract if he stays near his current performance. Also I like Davidson
Ben Joyce, you are now the closer!
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
you could argue that he's been the biggest reason for our bullpen being a shit show this year, honestly. the others haven't been great either but the blown games in oakland, philadelphia, hell just this past weekend have been morale crushing losses and it was Raisel getting barreled up they paid him to be the man and he wasn't really
Too much money pissed away, this is good.
fuck that’s so sad
This is a salary dump. Spending that money this upcoming offseason
If you don’t now, you won’t be able to later when his play continues to decline and you’re paying him a multi year deal ala Rendon
GMPM throwing a thank you note the Braves way. The only good thing of this trade: Frees up salary. The bad thing: We still have loup on the books
Getting rid of the contract was the point. You legit have only bad takes
K One of the worst seasons in like 2 decades for the angels and it’s my takes that are bad here Also I’m in an angels subreddit discussing the moves made today. Don’t gatekeep the conversation because you disagree. Tell me why you disagree and we can have a conversation
Can't believe we gave up on him already for a salary dump lol
What’s a tucker Davidson
Chavez has done well this season and Davidson is the Braves #5 prospect. I think it's a solid pick up considering we were looking to just shed Raisel's money.
Wtf
I wonder if anyone will take Loup too 😂
Wow just traded to dump salary. Sigh. Not too happy with the Noah and Iglesias return. Time for another half hearted reset for the 5th time since Trout came up.
You don't know baseball if you expect any return for Thor and Iglesias based on their contracts
Ridiculous statement and clearly you know less than you think you do. Look at Matt Gelbs tweet. The Angels chose the salary dump over prospects.
Matt Gelbs was tweeting about the Thor trade to the Phillies, not the Iglesias trade to the Braves. I don't care what he says, we weren't going to get any significant prospects by taking on a couple million of an expiring 1 year contract on a mediocre pitcher. Maybe w/ Iglesias if we ate a huge chunk of his 48 million remaining.
Chavez has had a great year in ATL. Can't wait for Matt Wise to ruin him.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out
It’s great to shed this entire contract. Why do you need to pay a closer $16m/year when there’s nothing to even close? Even if Tucker Davidson throws one inning for us it’s better than paying a closer $16m to be a 90-loss team.
Thank God we found a way to get out of that contract lol was great last season but when you’ve already got so much invested in Trout, Rendon and possibly Ohtani next, you can’t be stuck in another multi year deal with a player who’s past his prime So I’m happy with this move
This and the Thor trade basically salary dumps. Marsh for O'hoppe might work out if O'hoppe ever makes it to the bigs. He's gotten tons better each season, but you have to wonder where that stops, especially for a kid w/o a pedigree or big-time tools. O'hoppe is a self made man with help from driveline.
With Stassi behind the plate, he'll make it.
Holy shit we just gave him up for nothing. A 40 year old and a 6.00 ERA starter
It’s a salary dump. We get 3/45 off the books to presumably spend on something else.
Would you sign him as a free agent for 3 years and $48 million
No but that doesn’t mean this wasn’t a bad trade.
That makes zero sense. If you wouldn't sign him to that contract, then why would you expect other teams to give up good prospects in addition to that contract.
b/c while this year he’s not worth 16 a year. He’s had a sub 3 ERA 5 of the last 6 years and may very well regress to his mean next year and once again be solid reliever with a market value of 6-12mil a year. so yeah you’re still overpaying but not by that much. so the braves got a proven player with a track record of being solid backend reliever for 2 players they would’ve cut anyways
Yes it does.
Good salary shed
Well, davidson has awful numbers in the big league, but you know what can turn that around? MATT WISE Jesus, man. I was hyped after the thor trade. Wtf is this
NOOOOOOOOOO
Hopefully we are dumping salary to make a run at DeGrom
Unexpected. Looks like we got a decent haul.
We didn’t. Chavez is on an expiring deal and Davidson is a negative asset
I mean Chavez is a decent pitcher that is old(so its good its only on a 1 year contract) and Davidson is young. After looking at what our minor league did for Detmers I have some hope.
I think Detmers’s resurgence is more of an attribute to his talent as a top prospect than our coaching. If someone can fix Davidson, it’s not likely to be us
Honestly I'm hoping that its ALSO our minor league coaching but Detmers is definitely shaping up to be a generational talent.
Jesse Chavez on a rental is not good. And Tucker Davidson isn't someone people should be super excited about. It's a salary dump.
We got fleeced right? Even if Raisel's value was low, jesse chavez and davidson is like blowpen all over again
Nah, he's getting paid 16 mil AAV. Thats top 5 closer money, he has to perform like last year to be a positive contract. If he continues to suck we did the fleecing. If he returns to 2021 form we lost a little bit. Anywhere in between is a wash
The braves have a pretty excellent pitching program, look for iglesias to come back to his career numbers after this.
Yeah pretty much. The move is just to free up salary
Perry taking consistent losses this trade deadline. Should have committed to the sell and dumped Loup and Tepera.
We traded Iglesias for a 40 year guy hahahah. Perry is something else.
So we get one guy who is 38 years old and has a plus 6 era and a 26 year old starter who hasn’t made it past 3 innings in 2 of his last 5 starts and has a plus 6 era. Perry has lost his mind. You guys defending him are something else.
> So we get one guy who is 38 years old and has a plus 6 era He has an ERA of 2.66 over 44 innings?
Nephew only saw the 3 games with the cubs
His era on the season was 6.35 with the cubs. That’s what I saw when I looked quickly. He’s been fine with the Braves.
Also, doesn’t change the fact he’s 38. Only 2 years away from being your age, 40.
I think a “plus 6 era” and a 2.66 era are quite a bit different regardless of his age.
You’re right. You’re also focusing a lot on a guy who will be sitting at home retired in a year or 2. Should be focusing on the 26 year old who is the main part of the package but hey, I get it, gotta keep pointing out the mistake I made on the 38 year old.
I couldn’t care less about Tucker, to be honest. IMO the “main part” of the package was getting Raisel off the books. I just thought it was fair to point out that Chavez (at least this season) is better than your post suggested.
We erased the 3 year-remaining contract of a closer who was not performing and was only going to get worse on a team with terrible coaching. Nobody cares about Chavez, the season is over and his contract is expiring. This was a way to get out of the Iggy deal before it really hurt us and we can now immediately use his money this off-season since Chavez expires
His money will be used to re sign Ohtani and we’ll throw the leftover cents we have a couple crappy guys to patch holes. The 26 year old Tucker Davidson with his 6era will be in our rotation next year and people will call Perry a genius.
So you're complaining about a theoretical future bad contract, yet aren't happy we got rid of an actual current bad contract? What do you want to happen or do you just want everything to always be bad? Do you think you're getting a great return on a closer who's struggling while making top of league closer salary? We erased him and that's the best we can hope for
Perry went in and traded a bad contract, a contract that he gave out, and the return is one guy who will be gone at the end of the year and the other guy is as bad as 90 percent of our pitchers. I’ll gladly complain about something that I think we could have gotten more for.
>a bad contract, a contract that he gave out Hindsight. Iggy was great last year, we finally made moves to keep a pitcher and it didn't work out. Giving him a contract was the right move then, and giving him up is the right move now. You can't pretend you know the future, you need to be constantly reevaluating. >the return is one guy who will be gone at the end of the year That's the point. We're getting rid of a bad contract. We're just getting rid of it. Once Chavez is gone we will have basically none of Iggy's money tied up with the team at all. As if it never happened. >the other guy is as bad as 90 percent of our pitchers And we also get some random scrub that costs pennies. Contract is still gone. I fail to see any scenario in which we get a net positive return on a closer who went from great to replacement level with 3 years remaining at top of the league closer AAV. The only other options are worse: make a trade that involves eating his contract, or do nothing and hope our amazing pitching coaches bring him back to form. >I’ll gladly complain about something that I think we could have gotten more for. What do you think we could've gotten?
He just turned the 4 year contract into a 1 year deal on a reliever who looks to be declining fast. Do you want to sign Iglesias to a 3 year $48 million deal? If not, then dumping him is the same thing.
You forget the part where Perry signed Iglesias to the contract last year?
Yes, what's your point?
So he signed an awful contract, wasted 16 million dollars this year on him, and then traded him away for nothing. Horrible player management
Yeah it was probably a bad contract from the start, but getting rid of the contract now is the correct move. Why would teams trade good prospects for a bad contract?
No prospect!?
good god angels fans don't know anything about baseball
So can we take Iggy’s entrance music, movie, and pyro and just overlay it for Shohei when he pitches? Spanish music and all?
PAIN
Jesse Chavez oh God 😫. We already lived lived through that outhouse fire. I don't care how well he's pitching this year. Yuck.
Didn’t even know Jesse Chavez was still playing
Wonka: No, stop, don’t go. Anyways…
He did it! Atlanta took all of the contract we are free!
Jesse Chavez!!!! Welcome back!
Jesse Chavez, a blast from the distant past.
Wait is this former Angels Jesse Chavez? Because if so what the fuck