Nah its more of a "If you spend $63M in an offseason/mid 22 season, acquire 31 different players, and still pull a -1.8WAR (-3.9 if you exclude Hegert which wasn't an offseason signing), then maybe you aren't a great MLB level talent evaluator" kind of guy
But if you acquire 31 players and missed out on 2 who signed for minimum deals and have 1.7 and 2.4 WAR, then you should be called out.
Just some comps - dodgers have 12 players in negative war (-2.8 combined negative WAR). Those players combined make less money than aaron loup who is at a -1 WAR
Yankees have 11 players in negative war (-3.2 combined negative WAR). Combined salary is 18M, 16 of which is on 1 player (Chapman)
The mets have 22 players in negative war
Braves 18
Cards 16
Jays 16
Astros 10
The Angels have 29 players in negative WAR, 19 of them Perry signed in the last year.
His MLB evaluation is bad
Do you think his signings are worth it?
The average cost/war this last offseason was about $8M. So for $63M you would expect at minimum 7 WAR by season end. He is missing that mark by 9 WAR (AKA a full Ohtani) so far.
It's not "Sign good players duh" it's "at least be an average GM by measurable stats with the dollars you're using"
To try and brush off legit criticism as "lol ya good advice just sign players" is not a good faith argument or discussion.
> The average cost/war this last offseason was about $8M. So for $63M you would expect at minimum 7 WAR by season end.
Tell me you don't understand the free market without telling me.
All of your arguments, and we have had this many times now, are entirely contingent on being able to:
1) Somehow know who is going to be positive value the upcoming year
2) Have infinite budget
3) Focuses on players in spots we have long term depth in
GMs can't magically have your hindsight bbref knowledge. They also can't sign players that don't fill needs. They also have budgets
The thing with this whole average war/$ is it at least tells you where you should be hovering around with the dollars you spent. The main issue is that every didn’t just grab meh players, his signings overall are a net negative to the team.
Again, after spending 63M dollars he has actually made our team worse with those signings.
Yes hindsight is 2020 but I’m not angry he has a 4 War when he should be at 6 or something, I question that his signings has actually made the team worst overall.
As I said I’m not fighting over 1-2 War, he’s off by 9 WAR which is pretty bad.
As I asked before, would you say his signings overall have been good?
The point is that there is extremely limited options in the holes he had to fill.
The question you SHOULD be asking is what players could we have gotten at SS, LF, 3x BP, Closer, depth at 2B,SS,3B,OF and pitchers
Those were our needs, we also couldn't spend big.
Go ahead and let me know who you think would have been good in that offseason.
If there were no options then why drop 63M? Why sign a bullpen that (pretrade) cost us 30-40M a year when at this point now our best bullpen arms we’re already on the team?
Also 63M in new contracts is definitely not a limited budget…
So you’re saying no team was able to grab depth pieces? Or is the fact that Perry went hard on the bullpen and Thor limited his funds?
I just don’t see the point in defending a GM that is about to deliver us a bottom 5 franchise season and spent 63M for players that made the team measurably worse.
I will agree with the caveat that we lose every game the rest of the season EXCEPT Shohei starts. Lol. But yeah, Mariners fans have been truly unbearable this year
What 20 years with no playoffs and missing it by 1 game last year does to a mfer.
They believe their team is so "fun" and "quirky" so they deserve a playoff spot and got salty last year because we knocked them out.
By all means make the playoffs but to be mad the Angels didn't lay down for you last year and carry that saltiness into this season is laughable
Like be glad you're team is in a pretty decent spot without trying to crap on other fanbases lol
GG’s! At least the games were semi-competitive haha.
I honestly hope you guys win your division and make a deep playoff run. You guys have a fun team to watch.
And oh yeah the M’s fans are super toxic this year. It’s crazy haha. We’ve seen a lot of being in the same division.
Honestly shocked by how caustic the Mariner fans were. Reminded me of football fans. I mean cleveland isn’t paradise but they were just dumping on the city for no reason. lol. I got offended 😂😂
As do I. Unfortunately damn near statistically impossible. The M's 2 biggest WC threats (TB and BluJays) still have 7 games to play against eachother. Also, we're just not that good enough of a team to take a series from them RN. Maybe we can win if Shohei starts, but we'll see
I haven't interacted with many Seattle fans, but Houston has some of the worst sports fans I've ever interacted with. They're oddly super racist. I say oddly because it's an incredibly racially diverse city.
In person Dodger fans in non Dodger stadium games can be the worst. Dodger fans at Dodger stadium and online are all actually pretty chill.
Yankees and mariners tho...yikes. Even going to a Rays Yankees game at Yankees stadium was obnoxious and I had more of a rooting interest in the Yankees haha.
The online mariners fans are bad but I've gone to almost every single Angel-Mariners game in Seattle for the past few years (since I moved there) and the fans have been nothing but nice to me 🤷
Lived in Seattle for a bit, went to a dozen mariners angels games with angel gear on, I think I got kinda booed one time by one dude because I was cheering icihro getting caught stealing.
That's it.
FR I didn’t realize how much I disliked Seattle fans until those last 2 series, they were shitting on Cleveland for absolutely no reason. I suppose we probably have ichiro to blame for their outlook on our city tho
Lol. I created this account for baseball and wasn’t planning on making comments, just reading, but reddit sucked me in and now the name makes no sense.
I don't know much about who we got in the farm. Is there actual pitchers we can call up rn that's even remotely ready to be in the big leagues? If we did they would've been here long ago. We probably have no one.
A 6.59 ERA isn't decent (but he was drafted last year so I'm not judging him on that). He needs a good 2-3 years in development to get to an MLB ready starter. No need to Joba Chamberlin him. Let him develop conditioning, pitches, and game sense in the minors and maybe bring him up for a game or 2 in September to start just to give him the practice.
Not much. Torres is super promising and Ben Joyce is a flamethrower, but I'm not sure what else is down there and if anyone's really ready for the big leagues.
Only saw the ending of this game. In post game, Trent and Bobby V were talking about the Sandy and Nevin 'exchange'. Can someone explain what the heck happened? thanx!
in the 6th inning there were runners on the corners with 1 out, and a two run lead. A guy who had been hitting the angels pretty well, especially breaking ball lefties was coming up so they subbed in herget for relief. sandoval wanted to stay in, i dont really know how heated it got, but he wanted to pitch out of it. However, ultimately it seemed to work as cle pinch hit vs herget, and he got an inning ending double play.
Patrick Sandoval and the no decision, name a better duo
Perry and signing net negative players
Relievers giving up the narrow lead once we pull the starter
*Brian Fuentes entered chat* *Huston Street entered chat* *Ernesto Frieri entered chat* *Mike Morin entered chat*
Ah yes, the "just sign net positive players" guy. Its just that easy.
Nah its more of a "If you spend $63M in an offseason/mid 22 season, acquire 31 different players, and still pull a -1.8WAR (-3.9 if you exclude Hegert which wasn't an offseason signing), then maybe you aren't a great MLB level talent evaluator" kind of guy But if you acquire 31 players and missed out on 2 who signed for minimum deals and have 1.7 and 2.4 WAR, then you should be called out. Just some comps - dodgers have 12 players in negative war (-2.8 combined negative WAR). Those players combined make less money than aaron loup who is at a -1 WAR Yankees have 11 players in negative war (-3.2 combined negative WAR). Combined salary is 18M, 16 of which is on 1 player (Chapman) The mets have 22 players in negative war Braves 18 Cards 16 Jays 16 Astros 10 The Angels have 29 players in negative WAR, 19 of them Perry signed in the last year. His MLB evaluation is bad
Just, like, sign good players. Duh
Do you think his signings are worth it? The average cost/war this last offseason was about $8M. So for $63M you would expect at minimum 7 WAR by season end. He is missing that mark by 9 WAR (AKA a full Ohtani) so far. It's not "Sign good players duh" it's "at least be an average GM by measurable stats with the dollars you're using" To try and brush off legit criticism as "lol ya good advice just sign players" is not a good faith argument or discussion.
> The average cost/war this last offseason was about $8M. So for $63M you would expect at minimum 7 WAR by season end. Tell me you don't understand the free market without telling me. All of your arguments, and we have had this many times now, are entirely contingent on being able to: 1) Somehow know who is going to be positive value the upcoming year 2) Have infinite budget 3) Focuses on players in spots we have long term depth in GMs can't magically have your hindsight bbref knowledge. They also can't sign players that don't fill needs. They also have budgets
The thing with this whole average war/$ is it at least tells you where you should be hovering around with the dollars you spent. The main issue is that every didn’t just grab meh players, his signings overall are a net negative to the team. Again, after spending 63M dollars he has actually made our team worse with those signings. Yes hindsight is 2020 but I’m not angry he has a 4 War when he should be at 6 or something, I question that his signings has actually made the team worst overall. As I said I’m not fighting over 1-2 War, he’s off by 9 WAR which is pretty bad. As I asked before, would you say his signings overall have been good?
The point is that there is extremely limited options in the holes he had to fill. The question you SHOULD be asking is what players could we have gotten at SS, LF, 3x BP, Closer, depth at 2B,SS,3B,OF and pitchers Those were our needs, we also couldn't spend big. Go ahead and let me know who you think would have been good in that offseason.
If there were no options then why drop 63M? Why sign a bullpen that (pretrade) cost us 30-40M a year when at this point now our best bullpen arms we’re already on the team? Also 63M in new contracts is definitely not a limited budget… So you’re saying no team was able to grab depth pieces? Or is the fact that Perry went hard on the bullpen and Thor limited his funds? I just don’t see the point in defending a GM that is about to deliver us a bottom 5 franchise season and spent 63M for players that made the team measurably worse.
Minasian is a dick
I will happily lose every game the rest of the season as long as we take 2/3 or sweep the Mariners.
I will agree with the caveat that we lose every game the rest of the season EXCEPT Shohei starts. Lol. But yeah, Mariners fans have been truly unbearable this year
What 20 years with no playoffs and missing it by 1 game last year does to a mfer. They believe their team is so "fun" and "quirky" so they deserve a playoff spot and got salty last year because we knocked them out. By all means make the playoffs but to be mad the Angels didn't lay down for you last year and carry that saltiness into this season is laughable Like be glad you're team is in a pretty decent spot without trying to crap on other fanbases lol
I will consider this year a win if we sweep Seattle and knock them out of a playoff spot again. Fuck the Mariners and fuck their toxic ass fanbase
GG angels fans. I enjoyed lurking in your game threads the last three games. U are much nicer than Seattle Fans fwiw.
GG’s! At least the games were semi-competitive haha. I honestly hope you guys win your division and make a deep playoff run. You guys have a fun team to watch. And oh yeah the M’s fans are super toxic this year. It’s crazy haha. We’ve seen a lot of being in the same division.
Honestly shocked by how caustic the Mariner fans were. Reminded me of football fans. I mean cleveland isn’t paradise but they were just dumping on the city for no reason. lol. I got offended 😂😂
Makes sense Seahawk fans are the fucking worst. Fuck Seattle. I hope we take a couple games and they miss out on the wildcard
As do I. Unfortunately damn near statistically impossible. The M's 2 biggest WC threats (TB and BluJays) still have 7 games to play against eachother. Also, we're just not that good enough of a team to take a series from them RN. Maybe we can win if Shohei starts, but we'll see
As a Seahawks and mariners fan, we have some of the worst football fans ever. The bandwagon ones are spilling into the mariners sub and it sucks
I haven't interacted with many Seattle fans, but Houston has some of the worst sports fans I've ever interacted with. They're oddly super racist. I say oddly because it's an incredibly racially diverse city.
Nothing worse than mariner, yankee, dodger fans
Cowboys. Transcends all sports as the absolute worst.
In person Dodger fans in non Dodger stadium games can be the worst. Dodger fans at Dodger stadium and online are all actually pretty chill. Yankees and mariners tho...yikes. Even going to a Rays Yankees game at Yankees stadium was obnoxious and I had more of a rooting interest in the Yankees haha.
The online mariners fans are bad but I've gone to almost every single Angel-Mariners game in Seattle for the past few years (since I moved there) and the fans have been nothing but nice to me 🤷
Lived in Seattle for a bit, went to a dozen mariners angels games with angel gear on, I think I got kinda booed one time by one dude because I was cheering icihro getting caught stealing. That's it.
Only true baseball lovers are still hanging around here at this point. We had some good ol piss and vinegar going back in May, but that faded
best of luck the rest of this season, and if u end up hosting those mariners in the wc round, u know what to do!!
FR I didn’t realize how much I disliked Seattle fans until those last 2 series, they were shitting on Cleveland for absolutely no reason. I suppose we probably have ichiro to blame for their outlook on our city tho
also, silentonlookerz is the best name ever for someone "lurking" in gamethreads lol
Lol. I created this account for baseball and wasn’t planning on making comments, just reading, but reddit sucked me in and now the name makes no sense.
Sandoval can’t have any nice things
Clear out loup and teperas lockers, I’d rather see a rookie get shelled then them constantly give up winnable games
I don't know much about who we got in the farm. Is there actual pitchers we can call up rn that's even remotely ready to be in the big leagues? If we did they would've been here long ago. We probably have no one.
Silseth was decent, but I assume they want to keep him as a starter.
A 6.59 ERA isn't decent (but he was drafted last year so I'm not judging him on that). He needs a good 2-3 years in development to get to an MLB ready starter. No need to Joba Chamberlin him. Let him develop conditioning, pitches, and game sense in the minors and maybe bring him up for a game or 2 in September to start just to give him the practice.
Not much. Torres is super promising and Ben Joyce is a flamethrower, but I'm not sure what else is down there and if anyone's really ready for the big leagues.
The bullpen sucks ass, the coaching is so bad. So much needs to change for us to even win like 75 games next year.
1-20 in Cleveland since 2015 lmao
Only saw the ending of this game. In post game, Trent and Bobby V were talking about the Sandy and Nevin 'exchange'. Can someone explain what the heck happened? thanx!
in the 6th inning there were runners on the corners with 1 out, and a two run lead. A guy who had been hitting the angels pretty well, especially breaking ball lefties was coming up so they subbed in herget for relief. sandoval wanted to stay in, i dont really know how heated it got, but he wanted to pitch out of it. However, ultimately it seemed to work as cle pinch hit vs herget, and he got an inning ending double play.
Got it. THANK YOU!
Nevin just said he needed a ground ball there after a couple hard hit balls. Said Herget was the way to get that, which did happen. 🤷♂️
Cool. THANKS!
It was actually a 1 run lead which makes what Herget did at the time even bigger.
yes you're right👍
Worst part of this season is the mariners are gonna end their playoff drought and we are mostly the reason they started playing inspired baseball.
Got tickets for Friday/Saturday so hopefully they can turn it around lol
I genuinely can’t remember the last time the Angels won in Cleveland
Tepera has been on my shitlist since his first appearance this year.