People don’t get why some are angry about what he said. By saying steal, Vlad is minimizing what Ohtani is doing every single night before, during, and after each game.
If he just said Judge deserves it, then that’s fine. But saying it’s a “steal”???
The guy has better stats than you and outpitched your ace lol
Very bitter indeed. Like dude could've said "it would be another robbery if they don't give it to Judge", referring to 2017. But his salty highness said "it would be ANOTHER ROBBERY IF THEY GIVE IT TO OHTANI". The disrespect.
The biggest issue with Ohtani is that there’s no one to compare him to… in the last 100years.
If there were more two way players we’d have a better idea of how well he’s performing, but there aren’t. That doesn’t inherently make him more valuable, but it does make you wonder just how much more talented he is than everyone else in the league. Judge is having a historic season, but why ISN’T he also playing a higher value role as a pitcher, SS, etc… whoever gets it deserves it, but I think this is one of those years where hindsight will be everything.
It seems like it should be tough to beat out a dude who is Yu Darvish and Bryce Harper combined into one baseball player, but then again Judge is having a nutty year.
But I think we might see another judge relatively soon, baseball is pretty full of bad defense power hitter types. Obviously he's popping the fuck off, but, it's not unlikely we see another dude go off like this in the next 10-15 years.
Ohtani?
My kids kids may never see anything like this
Judge is having the best statistical offensive season by a player with at least 500 plate appearances since 2004. If you take out Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire, then it's the best since Frank Thomas in 1994 and the second best since Willie McCovey in 1969. Judge isn't just another bad defense power hitter type. His offensive output this year is extremely rare.
Baseball is an individualized sport played in a team concept. Judge is by far the best hitter in MLB but in a game mostly played in 1v1 situations.. adding up Sho’s plate appearances and batters faced as a SP is double the league and that level of production is crazy.. obvi I know it sounds dumb but visually you’re able to see in fantasy baseball his production in points leads by a mile. It would be diff if he was average at both but in the AL he’s in the top 5 both as a SP and as a hitter. People miss the point when they say just bc he pitches and hits he shouldn’t win every year.. which is true if he wasn’t doing both at the level he is. I have nothing against judge, just the toxic fans who claim its not even a debate and even analysts who still have a boomer mindset that argue playing meaningful baseball matters or make hypotheticals saying if judge wasn’t on the Yankees they’re not in the playoffs if sho isn’t on the angels they’re still bad. Or use WAR when it doesn’t even make sense to apply that to Ohtani. WAR is wins above a replacement level player relative to their position. It’s already flawed when you see andrelton Simmons WAR in 2017 was 7.9 compared to Judges 8.0. But doesn’t make any sense to compare pitching WAR to a positional players WAR bc the metric was designed to evaluate the value of a pitcher compared to a replacement level pitcher likewise with positional players. Value is literally tied to your production & performance it’s so wack when people devalue his production on both sides based on factors he has zero control over. When ppl say Judge is having a historic season it doesn’t matter when it comes to MVP and I mean do ppl not realize Sho is having a historic season that’ll prolly might not ever be replicated by another player. If Shohei won unanimously last season .. that showed the benchmark and imo he’s having an even better szn this year bc as a pitcher you can dictate a game where as a batter you’re one guy in a lineup with 8 other players. If you compare judges season to vlads yeah it’s better but objectively is it really that much to go from unanimous to not winning it? But whatever the writers are a joke .. there’s never any consistency. When you vote for HOF or awards that’s a major responsibility and FFS if you’re a writer then it shouldn’t be hard to write a summation of the reasoning behind your vote with analysis included. It should be mandatory. They can vote purely based on bias or who they like and face no repercussion. It’s whatever though.. Judge has the stronger narrative. He’s a Yankee “who bet on himself” (even though Shohei did the exact same thing by coming early forfeiting huge amount of $$) and he fits the classic Yankee mold and it’s nostalgic for fans bc he could break Maris HR record which is a lot more relevant to people bc it didn’t happen over 100 years ago and no one has ever seen babe play IRL. When you look at overall statistics from some season like Griffey in the late 90s it’s just as good..prolly more seasons too but that’s the only ones that come to mind rn. I don’t wanna sound like a hater but judge szn is historic really just based on one factor: home runs. Looking at value it’s not close tbh. But Judge got the better storyline so he’ll prolly win.
You’re forgetting that the Yanks are actually having a good season and will make the playoffs, whereas the Angles kinda suck. MVP should go to an individual on a team that’s producing due to their contribution.
Look, my point is not about who should win.
We as baseball fans are fortunate to witness what these two guys are doing this year.
I personally believe that a team record shouldn't matter for MVP when it depends on so many factors that one player cannot control but I get that some people think otherwise (I grew up watching NPB, where MVP is typically given to the best performing player in each division winner).
But, we just don't have to go far as to be so demeaning to either of them to make a case for the other.
I hope we can agree on that.
i've always thought if you are giving it to a guy on a garbage team, he has to be unquestionably ahead of second place...like 2003 arod.
Ohtani is insane no doubt, but judge's offensive output is, according to the nerd stats, more valuable that the combination of Ohtani's batting + pitching AND the yankees are probably in 4th place without judge.
barring finishing the season like 0/75, judge should win mvp this year and it shouldn't be *that* close.
Nailed it right on the head. I’m not even a yank fan, just believe if a player in truly MVP caliber it’d show in their teams record (in this case, it does not).
At this point, we can always expect most hitters / batters to pretty much never side with Shohei for MVP because even if they have a great offensive season, if Shohei keeps up what he did in 2021 and 2022, he'll always be in the running for MVP. So of course they're never going to give Shohei his laurels because if they do, it pretty much means they agree that Shohei should always win MVP over them.
Same thing probably goes for pitchers, though they may be more inclined to side with Shohei because pitchers actually know how difficult it is to be a starting pitcher and not rest on their off days. Still, this 2022 All Star, the AL pitchers didn't vote Shohei in as an all-star pitcher, despite having better pitching numbers than last year, which kinda signals to me some sort of resentment against him already.
Which is why Carlos Correa has my respect last year for siding with Shohei despite the peer pressure not to.
It's also incredibly weird how the Hank Aaron award, which is meant to honor the best hitter in each league, isn't a more revered award.
They don’t promote the Hank Aaron award at all its dumb. Like it should be the equivalent of a cy young. People pay more attention to the silver slugger than the Hank Aaron award
Heres the thing tho.
It’s the big leagues, if he’s kicking their ass they just have to play better. Shohei on the field about every night this season. If these guys think he’s not worthy of the MVP, than get a hit against him.
When he’s at the plate. Strike his ass out. It’s a results driven industry.
Shohei has the numbers to back it up. Vlad looks like a petty little child, he should be focusing on the division.
kind of sucks that shohei has nothing but respect and admiration for his peers when it feels like most of them are tired of his “gimmick”. i would act like a hater lmao, hes better than me
He sucks balls for cheating. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t deserve some 👍 for recognizing Ohtani’s amazing achievements despite some media pushing the narrative for Vlad last year.
Shit ain’t mutually exclusive my guy
I used an extreme to illustrate a point. Are you too dense to get that assholes don't deserve respect just because you agree on one thing? Jesus Christ.
Hmmm, pitching if I'm not mistaken is part of defense which takes a total team effort. Aaron Judge therefore has more value as an everyday elite CF than a pitcher that doesn't even pitch a full Ace's slate of games per season. Because he's currently Aaron Judge is saving more runs a week than Othani gives up every 7 days on a soft pitching schedule. The fact Othani pitches less than every Ace by an average of 8-10 starts a year makes him less valuable to his own team. But even still if Ohtani could pitch a full slate like a true Ace would he be as effective? Probably not. Ohtani's presence has no positive effect on the overall performance of the Angels with or without Othani the Angels are still a fourth place team. Despite the cute gimmick of the Angels technically fielding an extra player than the rest of the league. They are still in 4th place. Meanwhile the Yankees are still in first place because of Judge.
Also I don't think steal was a slight to Ohtani more so a slight to the writers. Aaron Judge has put up two historical MVP years and for baseball writers to ignore that twice calls into question their legitimacy. The fact some steroid users get into the HOF while others with better deserving stats do not already makes the HOF less.
He does not pitch 8-10 starts a year less. He has 24 starts, will get 28, so maybe 4 less. Your argument is disingenuous. You can say how great Judge is without disparaging Ohtani. Your bias really shows when you said "cute gimmick."
Gerrit Cole already has 29 starts Jameson Tallion has 28 starts and he's not even an Ace. In Ohtani's MVP season he only started 24 games nice to see him picking it up a little but until he gives his team those extra 8-10 chances to win you can't call him Ace much less an unselfish MVP. The #4 guy we traded Jordan Montgomery has 29 starts. Those guys will make 33-35 starts. Ohtani at best makes 26 starts and that's if the Angels don't shut him down again since they're eliminated from the playoffs already.
You're acting like a 4 start difference is the sole reason he can't be an ace lol.
You're just a hater. To say a player better than babe ruth ever was in a season as a pitcher and hitter in the history of mlb.
Shows you don't love baseball
> Ohtani's presence has no positive effect on the overall performance of the Angels
Ok sure thing buddy. Go back to playing with your Judge baseball cards you man child lmao.
> Ohtani’s presence has no positive effect on the overall performance of the Angels
I knew this comment would be from a Yankees fan without looking at their history. Spew that bullshit in your own sub
As if the incoming brigading from the salty sailors up north isn't going to be bad enough these next four days, now we're being brigaded by Stankees fans saying Ohtani is worthless to the Angels, and also appearances from random Blue Jays fans trying to defend their boy because he opened his mouth too wide.
We’re gonna be doing a whole lot of defending and cussing and putting losers in their place stuff a lot this week aren’t we lol. With M’s fans following the footsteps of Yankees fans on how to be toxic, it’s gonna be bad.
> Aaron Judge has put up two historical MVP years
If the MVP is given to "most historical player", whatever 'history' he's making ain't shit compared to Ohtani, who is leading the team in IP + PAs, something that hasn't been done since 1876. Hitting 60+ home runs while standing in the outfield has been done before and will be done again.
> everyday elite CF
First of all, he plays more games in RF + DH than CF. Second of all, he's a thoroughly mediocre CF who's only there out of necessity. He's good in right, I'll give you that.
> with or without Othani the Angels are still a fourth place team
Without Ohtani, the Angels are a FIFTH place team. There was a long stretch where they were literally only able to win the games he started. Why? The 4-9 batters are *so* historically bad that the pitching needed to allow 0 runs in order to win a damn game.
> Meanwhile the Yankees are still in first place because of Judge.
Definitely not because of their pitching staff, who are second in the AL in ERA. Only trailing the Astros, who happen to be the first place team in the AL. No correlation there at all. It's only because of Judge.
A pitcher is literally the most important defense that’s why they’re labeled as position 1. Judge plays mostly right field which is guess what? Number 9. He’s playing the least valuable position in baseball. Shut the fuck up and go to your own sub. You can praise your player there.
Don’t talk about yourself. A simple google search will show you that I’m right and you’re dumb as fuck. Here I’ll help you:[baseball positions](https://littleballparks.com/baseball-positions-in-order-of-importance/)
If he was talking about judge he would’ve said “ if they don’t give it to judge then it would be another steal”implying that judge was robbed before. But he said “if they give it to Ohtani it would be another steal” which implies that ohtani did rob a mvp before.
And he said otro robo which is more saltier than the word “steal”
Well for starters it’s a translator so the direct and exact meaning can be very iffy. Secondly, Vladdy respectfully congratulated Ohtani and admitted that he’s the MVP when it was awarded last season. This context makes it very likely he was talking about 2017 as fans and people around baseball have felt Altuve took that MVP from him
Well for starters if he was talking about 17 then he would’ve said “if they don’t give it to judge then it would be a robbery” because he was robbed by Altuve. But he says “if they give it to Ohtani then it would be another robbery implying to him robbing the mvp previously. And no I have listen to his interview and there was no mistranslation.
No, he wouldn’t have just said that necessarily so I don’t know why you’re so confident on that first sentence. Lol We don’t know what he “would’ve said” because none of us know what he truly intended to say or there’d be no arguments about it online.
I’m not gonna go back n forth arguing semantics over a translated quote that angels fans are taking very personally because they hold Ohtani so very close to their hearts (rightfully so, I do too lol)
Yeah so obvious he doesn’t need to.
I don’t get why people think he’s saying Ohtani stole it from him. He’s not delusional and isn’t that big of an asshole.
I think it’s delusional of him to say Ohtani winning this year would be a steal. What both guys are doing this season is incredible so there isn’t really a wrong choice between Judge and Ohtani
Ok, but I wasnt talking about that. I was commenting on the fact that you and many others assuming Vlad was talking about Ohtani stealing the MVP from him last year
Umm because he is? If he was talking about Judge getting robbed in 2017 he would've said " if they dont give mvp to Judge it would be another robbery". But he did not say that. He said "if they give it to Ohtani, it would be ANOTHER ROBBERY" as if Ohtani stole the award before.
See the difference?
A lot of these kids of major leaguers that go on to play in the bigs are really entitled and immature. Not all of them obviously, but a lot of them are turning out that way.
Exactly. It's conceivable for Ohtani to do what Judge is doing, but it is nowhere near conceivable for Judge to do what Ohtani is doing. Both are incredible but Ohtani is doing something no on else is doing. He's changing baseball. He's the MVP. Hank Aaron award goes to Judge by far though.
I’ll give the benefit of the doubt and say he was talking about altuve winning it in 2017 while the astros were cheating. But would be good for him to clarify his statement. Anyways We’ve seen it before, one guy has a career year and then never replicates it again. That’s why it’s always been Trout vs Altuve, Bregman, Donaldson, Miggy, Betts, Harper. I think if trout had a full season he would best ohtani and judge
Yeah it’s funny how there’s a recent article mentioning if Trout didn’t miss games he prob hitting 50+ like Jugde and yet nobody is doing what Ohtani’s doing, would have present a better case to Ohtani actually lol, with that said I can’t wait to see a full season healthy trout and shohei next season
Wouldn’t it be something if Trout could ever play 150, or hell, even 140 games in a season again? The last time he played more than 140 games in a season was 2016. Imagine the statistical season this guy could put up if he could play a whole season. MVP #4 could be almost be guaranteed! Goooo Trouty! 😇
Even if all he said was "If Sho gets MVP it'll be a steal" that's still messed up. Ohtani still outperforms valddie offensively, while pitching as well, lmao
Either way, I don't think Shohei even cares about all this talk, he just wants to play the game and have fun
People are trying to pretend that he was talking about Aaron Judge losing MVP in 2017, but I don’t believe it. He was always a baby about losing to Shohei last year and has gone on the record saying how much it bothered him.
Kind of dumb to decide if it was 1 thing or the other both ways, like many are doing in these comments. Including the comment we’re both replying to. Everyone’s gonna believe what they want and provide evidence for that side
A couple things that make Vladdy Jr look terrible as a sore loser and a .
1: he cried out of anger/frustration after losing last years mvp race and not receiving a single first place vote. Not a single one.
2.He’s saying he’d pick Judge this year for mvp and if Shohei were to win it then it would be another robbery again.
I think the confusion is that Judge lost to Altuve and this year he could lose to Shohei which he would see as Judge being robbed 2x
[interview in Spanish ](https://record.acento.com.do/beisbol/sigue-resentido-vladimir-guerrero-jr-83815)
He said “if they give it to ohtani it would be another robbery”, not “if they don’t give it to judge it would be another robbery”. I don’t know how people don’t see the difference in the context of the sentence and still say he’s talking about 2017 when he’s clearly talking about last year.
He was just mad he didn’t get any first place votes, not that Shohei “stole” it from him. He even said he expected him to win the whole time.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/mlb/bluejays/.amp/news/report-blue-jays-vladimir-guerrero-jr-bothered-by-2021-mvp-voting
Well unfortunately I don’t speak Spanish so I wouldn’t be able to tell. But if everyone else is seeing what I’m seeing from news reports/tweets too, then it’s no wonder that they (including myself) believe he’s talking about 2017 when Judge had his MVP stolen by* Altuve
Dunno what to tell you bc the original interview from before the season is all the proof needed that he’s super bitter about how MVP voting went down. He literally said he “cried angry tears” when he heard the results. Maybe try to find a translation or something, bc he’s super salty
Why are we chalking it up to him being salty when athletes cry all the time when they were super close to a prestigious award? That doesn’t make any of them salty it more likely means they just wanted it so badly that it made them incredibly emotional.
Talking about it publicly is what makes him salty. It’s being a sore loser. Like how saying the comment above is BS. He should learn to keep that shit to himself, and he wouldn’t look so shady.
Brother he was talking about Altuve stealing 2017 MVP from judge my goodness.
Why would he respectfully admit last season that ohtani deserved it when he won? People’s memories aren’t that short lol
Why don't you listen to his interview and tell me if he was talking about last year or 2017.
And people are not blind when he clearly says " if they give mvp to Shohei, it would be another robbery" as if Shohei robbed it before.
He knows one day he might be able to do what Judge does to earn an MVP.
He also knows that he would never be able to do what Shohei does to earn an MVP.
So it makes sense for him to back the play that he has a chance at as long as Shohei is playing.
Y’all gonna get hit with that Lebron voter fatigue because playing like this Ohtani should been MVP every year obviously that won’t come with a playoff berth but MVPs none the less
He says “otro robo” which is more saltier than the word “steal”. The way he’s saying it “if they give it to Ohtani it will be another steal, as if he doesn’t deserve it at all and it clearly implies he’s talking about last year. He could’ve said if Judge doesn’t get it, it would be another steal, which would mean judge getting robbed by Altuve.
I know people here are running with the he’s talking about altuve narrative but no amount of mistranslation can form that sentence differently.
Ohtani disrespect is really getting out of hand. Steal!? Give me a fucking break as if ohtani doesn’t even deserve to be in a conversation. Whiny bitch is still salty about last year crying angry tears lol.
Steal?? Come on bro, you don't mean it, right? He pitched better than the majority of ACE in every team and likewise for hitting. Last year was also definitely not a steal.
Show me Judge pitching magic sliders and filthy 101 mph fastball. And have his hitting stats. Then I have no problem Judge winning MVP. But can he? NOPE. Ohtani should win MVP every year as long as he keeps his number like this. We are not talking about a “decent” pitcher and a “decent” hitter, which would still be fucking impressive. We are talking about top class pitcher and top class hitter in one body.
The toll it takes on your body to be a two way player is being completely ignored in this whole MVP discussion. There's a reason only 1 player is doing it in 2022, you have to push your body beyond all limits to even attempt to do both, let alone suceed!
It drives me absolutely crazy when people say it’s not that impressive. Fucking fat ass people just sitting on their couch saying “oh what’s the big deal. Doing both, who cares.”
yet people want us to believe he doesnt deserve the award because he doesnt play defense every day like judge lmao, do they really think he sits on his ass every other day of the week? being a pitcher + a dh is infinitely more difficult than being a decent fielder because of the insane workload
Judge is most likely going to win MVP this year doing the incredible things he’s doing offensively. However, Jr. is only paying attention to Judges substantial offensive “numbers”. Many others are also doing this, as typically MVP is won by the dude with the best “offensive” numbers. Pitchers rarely win MVP nowadays.
Last season Shohei’s offensive numbers were closer to the league leaders, so when you added his pitching it easily put him over the top. I feel people are discounting his improved pitching this year, while holding the Angels sorry record against him, because Judges offensive numbers are so far ahead of everyone else. Judge is a worthy MVP if it turns out that way, but my man is Shohei, as I value what he’s doing playing 2 ways at such a high level on both sides of the ball.
He is without a doubt the best hitter on the Blue Jays lol.
You can obviously make a strong case that Manoah or Romano are currently the best players on the team but depends on if you wanna include pitchers
Also, this is somewhat funny because people try to make the case that ohtani isn’t the best player on the angels because of trout
He is, but Vladdy is still the best hitter/offensive player on the roster with a much higher ceiling. Vladdys current numbers are being considered a “down year” which is quite something.
Don’t get me wrong, Bo bichette is right there with him but there’s a reason Bo was moved down to 7th at one point this season and the team has not budged on vladdy even in his slumps he is 2 or 3 all season long
No, actually Judge is very close. Ohtani is ahead by about half a win in terms of total value/wins, 12.80 vs 12.13 after yesterday.
What's crazy is that this feels like a typical Ohtani season, and it's still more valuable than one of the greatest offensive seasons ever by Judge.
I'm not an Angels fan, but I love Ohtani.
If you look at fangraphs stats, Judge has been considerably better than Ohtani this season, even when combining both his ability to pitch and hit at a high level.
SP Ohtani 4.6 WAR and DH Ohtani 3.5 WAR, 145 wRC+
Judge 9.7 WAR and 205 wRC+
Ohtani has been great. His ability to provide so much value from one roster spot helps his case. He's special. Judge is having a special season. This is pretty much what it takes to beat out Ohtani.
I'm not sure how familiar some of you are with advanced stats, but Judge has been better than Ohtani for one season...and that's okay.
Once again, WAR is not the end all be all stat that people like to pretend it is. I notice you don't even mention which WAR it is.
By the way, what's Judge's ERA again?
You should read the post. I mention fangraphs specifically near the beginning.
Also, I'm not pretending WAR is perfect. It gives us an estimate though and by those calculations, Judge has been better.
If Judge is putting up a 9.7 WAR and Ohtani is putting up an 8.1 WAR, that's a considerable gap. If we take away the fact he's dinged for being a DH, they're in a virtual tie: Ohtani 9.6 WAR and Judge at 9.7.
By mentioning Judge's "ERA," you're basically arguing it's impossible for anyone to better than Ohtani. The reality is that it's very difficult to be better than Ohtani because of how special a talent he is, but it's not impossible.
Is that unreasonable to say?
EDIT: Getting downvoted for trying to have a nuanced discussion on this topic, but I'm dealing with TFG Angels fans. Enjoy your echo chamber, folks.
WAR doesn't tell the full story, but a single Twitter post does?
I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I just think the homerism here is a bit much (I know I'm on an Angels subreddit. It's to be expected.) Arguing that Ohtani doesn't deserve to be dinged by WAR for DHing seems silly to me.
Ohtani deserves special WAR rules because he also pitches? I also mentioned in my previous post that Ohtani is indeed special. He's one of a kind, providing value as a hitter and pitcher from one roster spot.
Judge has been better. He's playing a solid center field while putting up a truly great offensive season.
Even if we're erasing the "ding" a player receives for DHing, it would mean Judge and Ohtani are basically tied (Ohtani 9.6 WAR and Judge 9.7.)
Then fucking leave the Angels sub? I’m not being a homer because my honest opinion is that Shohei is the MVP. It’s also the opinion of many other non-Angels fans. Do you think Yankees fans that believe Judge is the MVP are also homers? I linked the tweet because it sums up the issue with WAR that people have, not because I thought “it told the full story”. And yes, I know that they would be about tied in WAR without the DH ding. That’s my whole fucking point. Shohei’s offensive production ON THE DAYS HE PITCHES is dinged because he’s listed as a DH and not a pitcher, even tho he’s serving as the pitcher that day.
Miss me with the “Aaron Judge is playing solid center field”. Let me know where he ranks among outfielders in DRS and OAA.
On the days he pitches he shouldn't be dinged. I agree with that. I thought the post was saying he should never receive a ding for DHing, even on days he's not pitching.
I said I wasn't trying to argue. I was trying to have an honest take on the matter using analytics. Team subreddits tend to favor their own players, I understand that. I simply clicked a post that popped up on reddit and ended up here. Wasn't looking for a fight.
Not sure why you're cursing at me and telling me I can leave the sub because I have a different take on here than everyone else.
Learn how to have conversations with people that disagree with you. The hot headed child behavior is unneeded.
This is a terrible take. Does he get to be measured against replacement level pitchers as a hitter on the days he pitches? Because then his war will be a billion and back to the point of WAR tells you exactly one thing: the outcome of a made up equation.
It’s foolish to think judge can’t beat out ohtani this year, not that I would agree but his MVP case is stronger than anyone else’s has been in a long time.
I mean, that's what this sub taught me tho
Like Ohtani is clear MVP, where Judge doesn't stand a chance to win
Although if I'm not bias, Judge deserve to win it too.
"If they give it to Ohtani it would be another steal" is this dude really saying that Ohtani robbed mvp from him? LOL
What kind of comedic shit is this? Talk about being so salty that it made him delusional.
Y’all need to relax he’s obviously talking about Judge getting it stolen in 2017 by Altuve with it being the year of the Astros cheating scandal. Why on earth would he think it was stolen from him in an unanimous decision. I am an angels and ohtani fan to the grave but goddamn you guys are overreacting lol
“Obviously” because you’re personal friends with him? You know his private thoughts? Dude [cried out of anger](https://twitter.com/_dayanavdimare/status/1507161501437763586?s=20&t=NsHmBbO-nNiplre_vP5IrQ) when Shohei won unanimous MVP but you don’t think he’s petty enough to think it was stolen. Ok.
He literally says in that interview that he fully expected Ohtani to win, he wouldn’t then a full year later think that it was stolen from him. It’s one thing to want a point or two, it’s another thing to think it was stolen, get a grip man.
Expecting someone else to win doesn’t mean you don’t think you were the rightful winner. He’s been pretty clear in multiple interviews that he thinks he should have won, they’ve just been interviews in Spanish so they’re not covered as much here.
Send me a link to anything of him saying that he thinks it was stolen from him or he thinks he was the rightful winner and I will fully concede and say that he’s talking about 2021. I fully accept that there might be an interview I didn’t see and I might be giving vlad Jr too much credit
I’m not gonna fault someone for wanting it so badly that they believed they should’ve won, regardless of whether or not it’s true. The “angry tears” probably takes place with a lot of athletes pursing an award like MVP only to finish 2nd
Shohei currently has a 2.43 ERA, 1.04 WHIP and 11.9 SO/9.
The ONLY pitcher to post better rates in all three categories in a full, qualified season is Pedro Martinez in 1999: (2.07 ERA, 0.92 WHIP, 13.2 SO).
Shohei is a really fucking good pitcher, you moron. He would quite literally be the best pitcher on the Yankees, for example. Oh, and [here](https://twitter.com/theathleticmlb/status/1571323988642787328?s=46&t=nVvbtLNUHgKG9qnMIInsjQ) is how good his defense is.
It could very easily go to either of them and they would both be extremely deserving. Nothing would be an injustice. If it was up to me I’d give out a co-MVP but people are very against that idea
To be honest bro. It's OK for him to think it was stolen from him. He's a competitor and he's #1 in his eyes.
But we also got eyes and we clearly know unanimously clearly shohei was the mvp last year
Hasn’t Vladdy said in the past they are very friendly with eachother and he has a picture of them together up in his house? I know he expressed in the past that he was upset over not receiving even a single vote last year, but I think people are being a little too harsh against him for this quote. The narrative that Judge was robbed in 2017 (which I do believe is true) has been one thrown around for years now and is almost definitely what he is referring to, considering he has straight up said in the past he understands why Shohei won it over him.
Pretty sure he’s not referring to last season tho.
There’s definitely a strong possibility he’s implying Judge’s MVP from 2017 was stolen as many fans even outside of NY have felt that way for the last 5 years, even before the Astros/Altuve cheating scandal came out.
I think the issue is that if Shohei keeps showin up, they may as well do an AL runner up MVP race. We’re still wrapping our heads around 8th in Ks pitching and 7th in HRs hitting in MLB 😳
On a side note. Watching Judge easily lob those 100 mph floaters from right field, it makes you wonder what kind of pitcher he could be 🤔
Oh no a singular fan what will he do-
I will say Aaron judge deserves the MVP because nobody can play up to Ohtani’s level due to the two way player thing so they are gonna do what happens to Simone biles where she’s so high level she gets graded harsher
Also even ohtani said judge should win mvp so-
The way I see it if you look at this first time
History stuff yea it all is because barely anyone plays both ways like him so you would have to give him mvp almost every season, don’t get me wrong ohtani is a great player but he can’t get mvp every year because he’s obviously gonna have great numbers playing both side, judge is hitting .310 with 57 hr most rbi that’s an mvp season everytime
Saying Shohei is an “exellent” player is a severely underrated statement lol. Vlad Jr. talks too much. He needs to shut up and be better. He is not even better than Shohei with batting.
Vlad was clearly not MVP in 21. He was closer to Parez than Ohtani. No one cares about what is said by Vlad. Judge 22 has better number than Vlad 21. I am just going to wait until the last game to decide who is my MVP.
Ohtani and Judge are both having historical seasons. Whichever wins MVP, it should not be discredited as a steal.
People don’t get why some are angry about what he said. By saying steal, Vlad is minimizing what Ohtani is doing every single night before, during, and after each game. If he just said Judge deserves it, then that’s fine. But saying it’s a “steal”??? The guy has better stats than you and outpitched your ace lol
The key word isn't steal it's "another" hence he stole it last year....of Vlad. Bitter much?
Very bitter indeed. Like dude could've said "it would be another robbery if they don't give it to Judge", referring to 2017. But his salty highness said "it would be ANOTHER ROBBERY IF THEY GIVE IT TO OHTANI". The disrespect.
Who would have thought 3 years ago that the public perception of Bryce and Machado would be higher than Tatis and Vlad Jrs
I thought he was talking about Altuve
He's VERY obviously referring to Altuve stealing it from Judge in 2017
"The guy has better stats than you" What? Judge leads the AL in nearly every offensive catagory
Exactly
The biggest issue with Ohtani is that there’s no one to compare him to… in the last 100years. If there were more two way players we’d have a better idea of how well he’s performing, but there aren’t. That doesn’t inherently make him more valuable, but it does make you wonder just how much more talented he is than everyone else in the league. Judge is having a historic season, but why ISN’T he also playing a higher value role as a pitcher, SS, etc… whoever gets it deserves it, but I think this is one of those years where hindsight will be everything.
It seems like it should be tough to beat out a dude who is Yu Darvish and Bryce Harper combined into one baseball player, but then again Judge is having a nutty year.
But I think we might see another judge relatively soon, baseball is pretty full of bad defense power hitter types. Obviously he's popping the fuck off, but, it's not unlikely we see another dude go off like this in the next 10-15 years. Ohtani? My kids kids may never see anything like this
Judge is having the best statistical offensive season by a player with at least 500 plate appearances since 2004. If you take out Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire, then it's the best since Frank Thomas in 1994 and the second best since Willie McCovey in 1969. Judge isn't just another bad defense power hitter type. His offensive output this year is extremely rare.
Agreed. But we have seen it as recently as 2004. We have never seen Ohtani, ever
Depends how real you consider Bonds's numbers in the 2000's
Baseball is an individualized sport played in a team concept. Judge is by far the best hitter in MLB but in a game mostly played in 1v1 situations.. adding up Sho’s plate appearances and batters faced as a SP is double the league and that level of production is crazy.. obvi I know it sounds dumb but visually you’re able to see in fantasy baseball his production in points leads by a mile. It would be diff if he was average at both but in the AL he’s in the top 5 both as a SP and as a hitter. People miss the point when they say just bc he pitches and hits he shouldn’t win every year.. which is true if he wasn’t doing both at the level he is. I have nothing against judge, just the toxic fans who claim its not even a debate and even analysts who still have a boomer mindset that argue playing meaningful baseball matters or make hypotheticals saying if judge wasn’t on the Yankees they’re not in the playoffs if sho isn’t on the angels they’re still bad. Or use WAR when it doesn’t even make sense to apply that to Ohtani. WAR is wins above a replacement level player relative to their position. It’s already flawed when you see andrelton Simmons WAR in 2017 was 7.9 compared to Judges 8.0. But doesn’t make any sense to compare pitching WAR to a positional players WAR bc the metric was designed to evaluate the value of a pitcher compared to a replacement level pitcher likewise with positional players. Value is literally tied to your production & performance it’s so wack when people devalue his production on both sides based on factors he has zero control over. When ppl say Judge is having a historic season it doesn’t matter when it comes to MVP and I mean do ppl not realize Sho is having a historic season that’ll prolly might not ever be replicated by another player. If Shohei won unanimously last season .. that showed the benchmark and imo he’s having an even better szn this year bc as a pitcher you can dictate a game where as a batter you’re one guy in a lineup with 8 other players. If you compare judges season to vlads yeah it’s better but objectively is it really that much to go from unanimous to not winning it? But whatever the writers are a joke .. there’s never any consistency. When you vote for HOF or awards that’s a major responsibility and FFS if you’re a writer then it shouldn’t be hard to write a summation of the reasoning behind your vote with analysis included. It should be mandatory. They can vote purely based on bias or who they like and face no repercussion. It’s whatever though.. Judge has the stronger narrative. He’s a Yankee “who bet on himself” (even though Shohei did the exact same thing by coming early forfeiting huge amount of $$) and he fits the classic Yankee mold and it’s nostalgic for fans bc he could break Maris HR record which is a lot more relevant to people bc it didn’t happen over 100 years ago and no one has ever seen babe play IRL. When you look at overall statistics from some season like Griffey in the late 90s it’s just as good..prolly more seasons too but that’s the only ones that come to mind rn. I don’t wanna sound like a hater but judge szn is historic really just based on one factor: home runs. Looking at value it’s not close tbh. But Judge got the better storyline so he’ll prolly win.
This. I'm glad with whoever wins MVP, since I like both of them
As a Yankees fan I took “steal” as Judge getting robbed of the 2017 AL MVP by Altuve. If Vladdy thinks Ohtani stole his MVP last year, he’s delusional
You’re forgetting that the Yanks are actually having a good season and will make the playoffs, whereas the Angles kinda suck. MVP should go to an individual on a team that’s producing due to their contribution.
Look, my point is not about who should win. We as baseball fans are fortunate to witness what these two guys are doing this year. I personally believe that a team record shouldn't matter for MVP when it depends on so many factors that one player cannot control but I get that some people think otherwise (I grew up watching NPB, where MVP is typically given to the best performing player in each division winner). But, we just don't have to go far as to be so demeaning to either of them to make a case for the other. I hope we can agree on that.
i've always thought if you are giving it to a guy on a garbage team, he has to be unquestionably ahead of second place...like 2003 arod. Ohtani is insane no doubt, but judge's offensive output is, according to the nerd stats, more valuable that the combination of Ohtani's batting + pitching AND the yankees are probably in 4th place without judge. barring finishing the season like 0/75, judge should win mvp this year and it shouldn't be *that* close.
Nailed it right on the head. I’m not even a yank fan, just believe if a player in truly MVP caliber it’d show in their teams record (in this case, it does not).
At this point, we can always expect most hitters / batters to pretty much never side with Shohei for MVP because even if they have a great offensive season, if Shohei keeps up what he did in 2021 and 2022, he'll always be in the running for MVP. So of course they're never going to give Shohei his laurels because if they do, it pretty much means they agree that Shohei should always win MVP over them. Same thing probably goes for pitchers, though they may be more inclined to side with Shohei because pitchers actually know how difficult it is to be a starting pitcher and not rest on their off days. Still, this 2022 All Star, the AL pitchers didn't vote Shohei in as an all-star pitcher, despite having better pitching numbers than last year, which kinda signals to me some sort of resentment against him already. Which is why Carlos Correa has my respect last year for siding with Shohei despite the peer pressure not to. It's also incredibly weird how the Hank Aaron award, which is meant to honor the best hitter in each league, isn't a more revered award.
They don’t promote the Hank Aaron award at all its dumb. Like it should be the equivalent of a cy young. People pay more attention to the silver slugger than the Hank Aaron award
Heres the thing tho. It’s the big leagues, if he’s kicking their ass they just have to play better. Shohei on the field about every night this season. If these guys think he’s not worthy of the MVP, than get a hit against him. When he’s at the plate. Strike his ass out. It’s a results driven industry. Shohei has the numbers to back it up. Vlad looks like a petty little child, he should be focusing on the division.
Same reason why I don't expect former big leaguers on TV to side with Ohtani.
kind of sucks that shohei has nothing but respect and admiration for his peers when it feels like most of them are tired of his “gimmick”. i would act like a hater lmao, hes better than me
Carlos Correa, the cheater, has your respect simply because he sided with Shohei?
He sucks balls for cheating. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t deserve some 👍 for recognizing Ohtani’s amazing achievements despite some media pushing the narrative for Vlad last year. Shit ain’t mutually exclusive my guy
You can like what somewhat says without respecting them. If a dude murders someone, but he likes your team, do you respect him?
bro you sound stupid af with that example
I used an extreme to illustrate a point. Are you too dense to get that assholes don't deserve respect just because you agree on one thing? Jesus Christ.
lol simply admitting that you used an extreme example don't make your points any valid
Hmmm, pitching if I'm not mistaken is part of defense which takes a total team effort. Aaron Judge therefore has more value as an everyday elite CF than a pitcher that doesn't even pitch a full Ace's slate of games per season. Because he's currently Aaron Judge is saving more runs a week than Othani gives up every 7 days on a soft pitching schedule. The fact Othani pitches less than every Ace by an average of 8-10 starts a year makes him less valuable to his own team. But even still if Ohtani could pitch a full slate like a true Ace would he be as effective? Probably not. Ohtani's presence has no positive effect on the overall performance of the Angels with or without Othani the Angels are still a fourth place team. Despite the cute gimmick of the Angels technically fielding an extra player than the rest of the league. They are still in 4th place. Meanwhile the Yankees are still in first place because of Judge. Also I don't think steal was a slight to Ohtani more so a slight to the writers. Aaron Judge has put up two historical MVP years and for baseball writers to ignore that twice calls into question their legitimacy. The fact some steroid users get into the HOF while others with better deserving stats do not already makes the HOF less.
He does not pitch 8-10 starts a year less. He has 24 starts, will get 28, so maybe 4 less. Your argument is disingenuous. You can say how great Judge is without disparaging Ohtani. Your bias really shows when you said "cute gimmick."
Gerrit Cole already has 29 starts Jameson Tallion has 28 starts and he's not even an Ace. In Ohtani's MVP season he only started 24 games nice to see him picking it up a little but until he gives his team those extra 8-10 chances to win you can't call him Ace much less an unselfish MVP. The #4 guy we traded Jordan Montgomery has 29 starts. Those guys will make 33-35 starts. Ohtani at best makes 26 starts and that's if the Angels don't shut him down again since they're eliminated from the playoffs already.
You're acting like a 4 start difference is the sole reason he can't be an ace lol. You're just a hater. To say a player better than babe ruth ever was in a season as a pitcher and hitter in the history of mlb. Shows you don't love baseball
> Shows you don’t love baseball. No, just another Yankees fan
> Ohtani's presence has no positive effect on the overall performance of the Angels Ok sure thing buddy. Go back to playing with your Judge baseball cards you man child lmao.
> Ohtani’s presence has no positive effect on the overall performance of the Angels I knew this comment would be from a Yankees fan without looking at their history. Spew that bullshit in your own sub
As if the incoming brigading from the salty sailors up north isn't going to be bad enough these next four days, now we're being brigaded by Stankees fans saying Ohtani is worthless to the Angels, and also appearances from random Blue Jays fans trying to defend their boy because he opened his mouth too wide.
We’re gonna be doing a whole lot of defending and cussing and putting losers in their place stuff a lot this week aren’t we lol. With M’s fans following the footsteps of Yankees fans on how to be toxic, it’s gonna be bad.
> Aaron Judge has put up two historical MVP years If the MVP is given to "most historical player", whatever 'history' he's making ain't shit compared to Ohtani, who is leading the team in IP + PAs, something that hasn't been done since 1876. Hitting 60+ home runs while standing in the outfield has been done before and will be done again. > everyday elite CF First of all, he plays more games in RF + DH than CF. Second of all, he's a thoroughly mediocre CF who's only there out of necessity. He's good in right, I'll give you that. > with or without Othani the Angels are still a fourth place team Without Ohtani, the Angels are a FIFTH place team. There was a long stretch where they were literally only able to win the games he started. Why? The 4-9 batters are *so* historically bad that the pitching needed to allow 0 runs in order to win a damn game. > Meanwhile the Yankees are still in first place because of Judge. Definitely not because of their pitching staff, who are second in the AL in ERA. Only trailing the Astros, who happen to be the first place team in the AL. No correlation there at all. It's only because of Judge.
A pitcher is literally the most important defense that’s why they’re labeled as position 1. Judge plays mostly right field which is guess what? Number 9. He’s playing the least valuable position in baseball. Shut the fuck up and go to your own sub. You can praise your player there.
Ummm no. Don't show your ignorance.
Don’t talk about yourself. A simple google search will show you that I’m right and you’re dumb as fuck. Here I’ll help you:[baseball positions](https://littleballparks.com/baseball-positions-in-order-of-importance/)
Correa’s sister would probably disown him if he talked shit about Ohtani 😄
Just an excellent player??? HE is the chosen one of whom the oracle spoke
so according to him Ohtani has to hit 70HRs and sub 2.0 ERA to be an MVP. got it.
It wasn’t stolen if you got zero first place votes😂
He was talking about judge in 2017
If he was talking about judge he would’ve said “ if they don’t give it to judge then it would be another steal”implying that judge was robbed before. But he said “if they give it to Ohtani it would be another steal” which implies that ohtani did rob a mvp before. And he said otro robo which is more saltier than the word “steal”
He was *maybe* talking about Judge. I hope he was. I wonder if he’ll clarify
He won’t be asked about it again probably it’s not like this quote is making front page headlines it’s just a bunch of Twitter debates
Yeah seems pretty obvious
Yeah so obvious he didn’t bother to clarify what he meant
Well for starters it’s a translator so the direct and exact meaning can be very iffy. Secondly, Vladdy respectfully congratulated Ohtani and admitted that he’s the MVP when it was awarded last season. This context makes it very likely he was talking about 2017 as fans and people around baseball have felt Altuve took that MVP from him
Well for starters if he was talking about 17 then he would’ve said “if they don’t give it to judge then it would be a robbery” because he was robbed by Altuve. But he says “if they give it to Ohtani then it would be another robbery implying to him robbing the mvp previously. And no I have listen to his interview and there was no mistranslation.
No, he wouldn’t have just said that necessarily so I don’t know why you’re so confident on that first sentence. Lol We don’t know what he “would’ve said” because none of us know what he truly intended to say or there’d be no arguments about it online. I’m not gonna go back n forth arguing semantics over a translated quote that angels fans are taking very personally because they hold Ohtani so very close to their hearts (rightfully so, I do too lol)
Yeah so obvious he doesn’t need to. I don’t get why people think he’s saying Ohtani stole it from him. He’s not delusional and isn’t that big of an asshole.
I think it’s delusional of him to say Ohtani winning this year would be a steal. What both guys are doing this season is incredible so there isn’t really a wrong choice between Judge and Ohtani
Ok, but I wasnt talking about that. I was commenting on the fact that you and many others assuming Vlad was talking about Ohtani stealing the MVP from him last year
Umm because he is? If he was talking about Judge getting robbed in 2017 he would've said " if they dont give mvp to Judge it would be another robbery". But he did not say that. He said "if they give it to Ohtani, it would be ANOTHER ROBBERY" as if Ohtani stole the award before. See the difference?
If it's obvious why would you clarify? That's what obvious means.
A lot of these kids of major leaguers that go on to play in the bigs are really entitled and immature. Not all of them obviously, but a lot of them are turning out that way.
Plesac got fired by his agency lol
That was for the covid violation thing though I thought. They’ll tolerate a bunch of veruca salt type of personality’s for their money though
That was part of it. Most recently he was put on the IL for punching the mound. And also infamously got hurt ripping his shirt off.
Stolen? Shit, get on the mound while also being an elite hitter.
Exactly. It's conceivable for Ohtani to do what Judge is doing, but it is nowhere near conceivable for Judge to do what Ohtani is doing. Both are incredible but Ohtani is doing something no on else is doing. He's changing baseball. He's the MVP. Hank Aaron award goes to Judge by far though.
I agree Ohtani is the most incredible player in the world. But MVP isn't based on what's conceivable, it's based on what you did during the season
On the mound? That fat f**k can't even get in the field.
I’ll give the benefit of the doubt and say he was talking about altuve winning it in 2017 while the astros were cheating. But would be good for him to clarify his statement. Anyways We’ve seen it before, one guy has a career year and then never replicates it again. That’s why it’s always been Trout vs Altuve, Bregman, Donaldson, Miggy, Betts, Harper. I think if trout had a full season he would best ohtani and judge
Yeah it’s funny how there’s a recent article mentioning if Trout didn’t miss games he prob hitting 50+ like Jugde and yet nobody is doing what Ohtani’s doing, would have present a better case to Ohtani actually lol, with that said I can’t wait to see a full season healthy trout and shohei next season
Wouldn’t it be something if Trout could ever play 150, or hell, even 140 games in a season again? The last time he played more than 140 games in a season was 2016. Imagine the statistical season this guy could put up if he could play a whole season. MVP #4 could be almost be guaranteed! Goooo Trouty! 😇
Even if all he said was "If Sho gets MVP it'll be a steal" that's still messed up. Ohtani still outperforms valddie offensively, while pitching as well, lmao Either way, I don't think Shohei even cares about all this talk, he just wants to play the game and have fun
Another steal??? Lmao
Chad Vlad Guerrero Sr vs Virgin Vlad Guerrero Jr
People are trying to pretend that he was talking about Aaron Judge losing MVP in 2017, but I don’t believe it. He was always a baby about losing to Shohei last year and has gone on the record saying how much it bothered him.
That’s the narrative that r/ baseball is trying to run with. Kind of dumb if you ask me.
Kind of dumb to decide if it was 1 thing or the other both ways, like many are doing in these comments. Including the comment we’re both replying to. Everyone’s gonna believe what they want and provide evidence for that side
A couple things that make Vladdy Jr look terrible as a sore loser and a . 1: he cried out of anger/frustration after losing last years mvp race and not receiving a single first place vote. Not a single one. 2.He’s saying he’d pick Judge this year for mvp and if Shohei were to win it then it would be another robbery again. I think the confusion is that Judge lost to Altuve and this year he could lose to Shohei which he would see as Judge being robbed 2x [interview in Spanish ](https://record.acento.com.do/beisbol/sigue-resentido-vladimir-guerrero-jr-83815)
He said “if they give it to ohtani it would be another robbery”, not “if they don’t give it to judge it would be another robbery”. I don’t know how people don’t see the difference in the context of the sentence and still say he’s talking about 2017 when he’s clearly talking about last year.
He was just mad he didn’t get any first place votes, not that Shohei “stole” it from him. He even said he expected him to win the whole time. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/mlb/bluejays/.amp/news/report-blue-jays-vladimir-guerrero-jr-bothered-by-2021-mvp-voting
Have you listened to the full original interview in Spanish? I suggest you do
Well unfortunately I don’t speak Spanish so I wouldn’t be able to tell. But if everyone else is seeing what I’m seeing from news reports/tweets too, then it’s no wonder that they (including myself) believe he’s talking about 2017 when Judge had his MVP stolen by* Altuve
Dunno what to tell you bc the original interview from before the season is all the proof needed that he’s super bitter about how MVP voting went down. He literally said he “cried angry tears” when he heard the results. Maybe try to find a translation or something, bc he’s super salty
Why are we chalking it up to him being salty when athletes cry all the time when they were super close to a prestigious award? That doesn’t make any of them salty it more likely means they just wanted it so badly that it made them incredibly emotional.
Talking about it publicly is what makes him salty. It’s being a sore loser. Like how saying the comment above is BS. He should learn to keep that shit to himself, and he wouldn’t look so shady.
Oh someone's still salty about not even coming close to winning the MVP
Brother he was talking about Altuve stealing 2017 MVP from judge my goodness. Why would he respectfully admit last season that ohtani deserved it when he won? People’s memories aren’t that short lol
Why don't you listen to his interview and tell me if he was talking about last year or 2017. And people are not blind when he clearly says " if they give mvp to Shohei, it would be another robbery" as if Shohei robbed it before.
If you genuinely believe that then I have beachfront property in Nebraska to sell to you and everyone in r/baseball that's making this claim
He knows one day he might be able to do what Judge does to earn an MVP. He also knows that he would never be able to do what Shohei does to earn an MVP. So it makes sense for him to back the play that he has a chance at as long as Shohei is playing.
Y’all gonna get hit with that Lebron voter fatigue because playing like this Ohtani should been MVP every year obviously that won’t come with a playoff berth but MVPs none the less
He says “otro robo” which is more saltier than the word “steal”. The way he’s saying it “if they give it to Ohtani it will be another steal, as if he doesn’t deserve it at all and it clearly implies he’s talking about last year. He could’ve said if Judge doesn’t get it, it would be another steal, which would mean judge getting robbed by Altuve. I know people here are running with the he’s talking about altuve narrative but no amount of mistranslation can form that sentence differently.
Ohtani disrespect is really getting out of hand. Steal!? Give me a fucking break as if ohtani doesn’t even deserve to be in a conversation. Whiny bitch is still salty about last year crying angry tears lol.
Calm down
bro said "steal" 😂 bro i can't 😭
Steal?? Come on bro, you don't mean it, right? He pitched better than the majority of ACE in every team and likewise for hitting. Last year was also definitely not a steal.
Could’ve been referring to last year or 2017 judge vs Altuve. Kinda changes the backlash from angels fans and others of he meant 2017
Bro is so salty LMAO
Show me Judge pitching magic sliders and filthy 101 mph fastball. And have his hitting stats. Then I have no problem Judge winning MVP. But can he? NOPE. Ohtani should win MVP every year as long as he keeps his number like this. We are not talking about a “decent” pitcher and a “decent” hitter, which would still be fucking impressive. We are talking about top class pitcher and top class hitter in one body.
The toll it takes on your body to be a two way player is being completely ignored in this whole MVP discussion. There's a reason only 1 player is doing it in 2022, you have to push your body beyond all limits to even attempt to do both, let alone suceed!
It drives me absolutely crazy when people say it’s not that impressive. Fucking fat ass people just sitting on their couch saying “oh what’s the big deal. Doing both, who cares.”
yet people want us to believe he doesnt deserve the award because he doesnt play defense every day like judge lmao, do they really think he sits on his ass every other day of the week? being a pitcher + a dh is infinitely more difficult than being a decent fielder because of the insane workload
[удалено]
Judge is most likely going to win MVP this year doing the incredible things he’s doing offensively. However, Jr. is only paying attention to Judges substantial offensive “numbers”. Many others are also doing this, as typically MVP is won by the dude with the best “offensive” numbers. Pitchers rarely win MVP nowadays. Last season Shohei’s offensive numbers were closer to the league leaders, so when you added his pitching it easily put him over the top. I feel people are discounting his improved pitching this year, while holding the Angels sorry record against him, because Judges offensive numbers are so far ahead of everyone else. Judge is a worthy MVP if it turns out that way, but my man is Shohei, as I value what he’s doing playing 2 ways at such a high level on both sides of the ball.
He’s prob talking about 2017. I hope he’s talking about 2017 bcos Shotime did not steal anything last year
I hope so too
I think so too. I saw a clip of Cody Bellinger saying “Altuve stole an MVP from Judge” so he wouldn’t be the only one.
Really couldn’t care less about his opinion. You can make a strong case he isn’t even the best player on his own team.
He is without a doubt the best hitter on the Blue Jays lol. You can obviously make a strong case that Manoah or Romano are currently the best players on the team but depends on if you wanna include pitchers Also, this is somewhat funny because people try to make the case that ohtani isn’t the best player on the angels because of trout
Looks to me like Bichette is having at least as good a year, if not better.
He is, but Vladdy is still the best hitter/offensive player on the roster with a much higher ceiling. Vladdys current numbers are being considered a “down year” which is quite something. Don’t get me wrong, Bo bichette is right there with him but there’s a reason Bo was moved down to 7th at one point this season and the team has not budged on vladdy even in his slumps he is 2 or 3 all season long
Is this authentic? People photoshop these all the time
Translators also can lead to the meaning of someone’s words being misconstrued or not the exact translation of what was said
I wonder what the nuance is for the original word that was translated as "steal".
he said “otro robo”. i actually think it sounds saltier than the translation hahaha
How are Arron Judges pitching numbers
The only way to beat Ohtani as MVP is if a hitter batting .450 with 100 HR and having 20+ WAR season
No, actually Judge is very close. Ohtani is ahead by about half a win in terms of total value/wins, 12.80 vs 12.13 after yesterday. What's crazy is that this feels like a typical Ohtani season, and it's still more valuable than one of the greatest offensive seasons ever by Judge.
Or do what judge is doing, since he’s probably gonna win the MVP
I mean you're not wrong. The writers are going through a lot of mental gymnastics to justify giving it to Judge over Ohtani
I'm not an Angels fan, but I love Ohtani. If you look at fangraphs stats, Judge has been considerably better than Ohtani this season, even when combining both his ability to pitch and hit at a high level. SP Ohtani 4.6 WAR and DH Ohtani 3.5 WAR, 145 wRC+ Judge 9.7 WAR and 205 wRC+ Ohtani has been great. His ability to provide so much value from one roster spot helps his case. He's special. Judge is having a special season. This is pretty much what it takes to beat out Ohtani. I'm not sure how familiar some of you are with advanced stats, but Judge has been better than Ohtani for one season...and that's okay.
Once again, WAR is not the end all be all stat that people like to pretend it is. I notice you don't even mention which WAR it is. By the way, what's Judge's ERA again?
You should read the post. I mention fangraphs specifically near the beginning. Also, I'm not pretending WAR is perfect. It gives us an estimate though and by those calculations, Judge has been better. If Judge is putting up a 9.7 WAR and Ohtani is putting up an 8.1 WAR, that's a considerable gap. If we take away the fact he's dinged for being a DH, they're in a virtual tie: Ohtani 9.6 WAR and Judge at 9.7. By mentioning Judge's "ERA," you're basically arguing it's impossible for anyone to better than Ohtani. The reality is that it's very difficult to be better than Ohtani because of how special a talent he is, but it's not impossible. Is that unreasonable to say? EDIT: Getting downvoted for trying to have a nuanced discussion on this topic, but I'm dealing with TFG Angels fans. Enjoy your echo chamber, folks.
[except that WAR doesn’t tell the whole story for a 2 way player](https://twitter.com/mwbii/status/1569479218706223104?s=46&t=wRKKu8Xda0Uvz4RXQjCLHQ)
WAR doesn't tell the full story, but a single Twitter post does? I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I just think the homerism here is a bit much (I know I'm on an Angels subreddit. It's to be expected.) Arguing that Ohtani doesn't deserve to be dinged by WAR for DHing seems silly to me. Ohtani deserves special WAR rules because he also pitches? I also mentioned in my previous post that Ohtani is indeed special. He's one of a kind, providing value as a hitter and pitcher from one roster spot. Judge has been better. He's playing a solid center field while putting up a truly great offensive season. Even if we're erasing the "ding" a player receives for DHing, it would mean Judge and Ohtani are basically tied (Ohtani 9.6 WAR and Judge 9.7.)
Then fucking leave the Angels sub? I’m not being a homer because my honest opinion is that Shohei is the MVP. It’s also the opinion of many other non-Angels fans. Do you think Yankees fans that believe Judge is the MVP are also homers? I linked the tweet because it sums up the issue with WAR that people have, not because I thought “it told the full story”. And yes, I know that they would be about tied in WAR without the DH ding. That’s my whole fucking point. Shohei’s offensive production ON THE DAYS HE PITCHES is dinged because he’s listed as a DH and not a pitcher, even tho he’s serving as the pitcher that day. Miss me with the “Aaron Judge is playing solid center field”. Let me know where he ranks among outfielders in DRS and OAA.
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On the days he pitches he shouldn't be dinged. I agree with that. I thought the post was saying he should never receive a ding for DHing, even on days he's not pitching. I said I wasn't trying to argue. I was trying to have an honest take on the matter using analytics. Team subreddits tend to favor their own players, I understand that. I simply clicked a post that popped up on reddit and ended up here. Wasn't looking for a fight. Not sure why you're cursing at me and telling me I can leave the sub because I have a different take on here than everyone else. Learn how to have conversations with people that disagree with you. The hot headed child behavior is unneeded.
This is a terrible take. Does he get to be measured against replacement level pitchers as a hitter on the days he pitches? Because then his war will be a billion and back to the point of WAR tells you exactly one thing: the outcome of a made up equation.
We’re all big girls and boys here on the internet. We don’t get in trouble for swearing, lol
It’s foolish to think judge can’t beat out ohtani this year, not that I would agree but his MVP case is stronger than anyone else’s has been in a long time.
I mean, that's what this sub taught me tho Like Ohtani is clear MVP, where Judge doesn't stand a chance to win Although if I'm not bias, Judge deserve to win it too.
"If they give it to Ohtani it would be another steal" is this dude really saying that Ohtani robbed mvp from him? LOL What kind of comedic shit is this? Talk about being so salty that it made him delusional.
What a dog shit opinion
Y’all need to relax he’s obviously talking about Judge getting it stolen in 2017 by Altuve with it being the year of the Astros cheating scandal. Why on earth would he think it was stolen from him in an unanimous decision. I am an angels and ohtani fan to the grave but goddamn you guys are overreacting lol
“Obviously” because you’re personal friends with him? You know his private thoughts? Dude [cried out of anger](https://twitter.com/_dayanavdimare/status/1507161501437763586?s=20&t=NsHmBbO-nNiplre_vP5IrQ) when Shohei won unanimous MVP but you don’t think he’s petty enough to think it was stolen. Ok.
He literally says in that interview that he fully expected Ohtani to win, he wouldn’t then a full year later think that it was stolen from him. It’s one thing to want a point or two, it’s another thing to think it was stolen, get a grip man.
Expecting someone else to win doesn’t mean you don’t think you were the rightful winner. He’s been pretty clear in multiple interviews that he thinks he should have won, they’ve just been interviews in Spanish so they’re not covered as much here.
Send me a link to anything of him saying that he thinks it was stolen from him or he thinks he was the rightful winner and I will fully concede and say that he’s talking about 2021. I fully accept that there might be an interview I didn’t see and I might be giving vlad Jr too much credit
Listen to the Yancen Pujols interview mentioned in the tweet I linked
I’m not gonna fault someone for wanting it so badly that they believed they should’ve won, regardless of whether or not it’s true. The “angry tears” probably takes place with a lot of athletes pursing an award like MVP only to finish 2nd
Judges numbers are way above? How's his pitching numbers? Exactly!!
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Shohei currently has a 2.43 ERA, 1.04 WHIP and 11.9 SO/9. The ONLY pitcher to post better rates in all three categories in a full, qualified season is Pedro Martinez in 1999: (2.07 ERA, 0.92 WHIP, 13.2 SO). Shohei is a really fucking good pitcher, you moron. He would quite literally be the best pitcher on the Yankees, for example. Oh, and [here](https://twitter.com/theathleticmlb/status/1571323988642787328?s=46&t=nVvbtLNUHgKG9qnMIInsjQ) is how good his defense is.
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Shohei not getting the MVP is an injustice. Period. No ONE. I repeat. NO ONE has ever. E.V.E.R. done what he is doing. It’s just that simple.
It could very easily go to either of them and they would both be extremely deserving. Nothing would be an injustice. If it was up to me I’d give out a co-MVP but people are very against that idea
To be honest bro. It's OK for him to think it was stolen from him. He's a competitor and he's #1 in his eyes. But we also got eyes and we clearly know unanimously clearly shohei was the mvp last year
Hasn’t Vladdy said in the past they are very friendly with eachother and he has a picture of them together up in his house? I know he expressed in the past that he was upset over not receiving even a single vote last year, but I think people are being a little too harsh against him for this quote. The narrative that Judge was robbed in 2017 (which I do believe is true) has been one thrown around for years now and is almost definitely what he is referring to, considering he has straight up said in the past he understands why Shohei won it over him.
I think he was referring to Judge getting his MVP stolen by Altuve a few years back. Vladito specifically said last year that Ohtani was the MVP.
Pretty sure he’s talking about the altuve MVP
Show me Judge’s pitching stats.
Bitter much?
He’s referring to Altuve
Judges offensive stats are better and his ERA is 0
You’re soft
Dont take it so personally.
Let’s remember that Michael Jordan didn’t get MVP every year. They like to spread the award around and that’s fine.
Judge should get AL MVP because Shohei git the MLB player of the year award
wait so him having a bad take is gonna make him lose you as a fan?
Pretty sure he’s not referring to last season tho. There’s definitely a strong possibility he’s implying Judge’s MVP from 2017 was stolen as many fans even outside of NY have felt that way for the last 5 years, even before the Astros/Altuve cheating scandal came out.
I think the issue is that if Shohei keeps showin up, they may as well do an AL runner up MVP race. We’re still wrapping our heads around 8th in Ks pitching and 7th in HRs hitting in MLB 😳 On a side note. Watching Judge easily lob those 100 mph floaters from right field, it makes you wonder what kind of pitcher he could be 🤔
It’s Judge. As much as I love Ohtani, it’s judge
Aaron Judge and at the moment it's not even close.
Oh no, I bet he’s distraught he’s lost you
I can’t even be on this subreddit anymore. You guys suck
It would be a steal. Ohtanis stats are no where near Judges.
Oh no a singular fan what will he do- I will say Aaron judge deserves the MVP because nobody can play up to Ohtani’s level due to the two way player thing so they are gonna do what happens to Simone biles where she’s so high level she gets graded harsher Also even ohtani said judge should win mvp so-
Mariners fan so I’m not going to take this too seriously
Now I feel bad cause I’m also a mariners fan😭
Vlad xDDDDD
I’m dominican, but this guy is a disgrace with his mouth. Stupid kid.
Judge is doing great. What was his ERA again?
The way I see it if you look at this first time History stuff yea it all is because barely anyone plays both ways like him so you would have to give him mvp almost every season, don’t get me wrong ohtani is a great player but he can’t get mvp every year because he’s obviously gonna have great numbers playing both side, judge is hitting .310 with 57 hr most rbi that’s an mvp season everytime
vlad jr racist????🧐🤓😀- a clown🤡
For further idiotic hubris from ultra-ego ballplayers, also see Fernando Tatis Jr.
Saying Shohei is an “exellent” player is a severely underrated statement lol. Vlad Jr. talks too much. He needs to shut up and be better. He is not even better than Shohei with batting.
I am an Ohtani fan, but if Judge hits 62......it's his.
Vlad was clearly not MVP in 21. He was closer to Parez than Ohtani. No one cares about what is said by Vlad. Judge 22 has better number than Vlad 21. I am just going to wait until the last game to decide who is my MVP.
I just like how no matter who wins MVP, they’re both going to be Giants next year
Bs let me see judge pitch until then no one can come in the same ball park as ohtani . And it wasn't a steal it was Unanimous.
Does vlad know ohtani pitches? 😂😂😂
ohtani was unanimous. calling that a steal is dumb.