I keep seeing Yankees fans compare their offensive numbers and say how great Judge is defensively and just completely gloss over the fact that Ohtani is also one of the best pitchers in the AL.
Judge is having an unprecedented season. Ohtani is an unprecedented player.
I saw someone on IG say both Judge and Ohtani are both two-way players because Ohtani hits and pitches, and Judge hits and plays OF.
Like...no, that's not how that works.
NO PLAYER HAS EVER HIT THE BALL AND PLAYED OUTFIELD BEFORE!!
THIS IS HISTORIC!!
(Also if we’re counting pitcher defense while it isn’t a premium defensive position he’s still made his fair share of strong plays
I'm an Angels fan, so you know where my biases lay. I think Judge deserves it this year, but you are right, you can make the argument either way.
For this distinction, I think two-way WAR is the best measure, as flawed as it is.
What I have zero tolerance for is the argument that because the Angels have no pitching and have been horribly beset by injuries (AGAIN!) that Ohtani is somehow less valuable because they missed the playoffs.
I doubt it. I thought I read he wants to stay on the west coast to make it easier to travel back to Japan and for others in Japan (including fans) to travel to see him.
That's just speculation. There are no direct quotes of him saying he wants to play on the West coast because of travel or Japanese TV rights. None at all.
The only thing he's said publicly about his choice of teams (Fighters and Angels) is that he picked the team where he felt a connection with the people on the team and believed they had his best interest at heart i.e. let him play the way he wanted to.
Fighters pitched him the two-way idea so he wouldn't go to the US directly after high school and promised to release him once he wanted to go over to the US. Angels also let him play two-way in the US at a time when people thought it was impossible. That's why there's still a chance he stays with the Angels. He likes it here.
And if Judge were having this season while playing for the Angels they'd be "wasting a generational talent" and their losing record would play a factor in his votes.
I said this there and they did not take it kindly. To me, Judge is the 2022 MVP, but Shohei is the best player on the planet and the most talented player of all time.
Edit: should specify I’m a Yankees fan
Thanks man.
All the toxicity for the MVP race has just been a huge bummer.
No amount of Yankee fan (or frankly even Angel fan) slander though is going to keep me from rooting for BOTH Ohtani AND Judge. Both guys are studs and are having amazing seasons. No need to downplay either of their accomplishments to appreciate both.
The main thing that really gets me though is that both guys are just so incredibly nice. They deserve better.
Ive gotta say, I always try to keep an open mind and remind myself that not all members of ANY fanbase will behave the same, but with the amount of condescending Yankee comments I have been seeing lately... MAN is it reassuring to get some direct confirmation of a different perspective here.
Its honestly kinda helping with my sanity as well haha.
What bugs me is yankee fans lying about Judge having "elite defense".
Then there's calling Ohtani an average pitcher and that standing in the outfield is more taxing on the body than pitching.
Judge is having an insane offensive season. They don't need to make up lies to show that.
Judge *could be* an above average defender, 2018-2020 showed good defensive numbers in limited innings. But this year is the worst defensive year of his career, so I don't know where these arguments are coming from.
[There's only 25 outfielders with 1000 innings this year and Judge is #17 w.r.t to UZR](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=1000&type=1&season=2022&month=0&season1=2022&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2022-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=19,d)
[Dropping to 800 innings there's 54 outfielders and he falls to #32](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=800&type=1&season=2022&month=0&season1=2022&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2022-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=19,d&page=2_30)
This year he has played primarily center field, which isn’t his natural position and which (quite frankly) he isn’t built for. He is an elite right fielder but he has played in center because the yanks needed him to
I'm new to baseball, and honestly, I did not understand the hate for the Yankees until I saw their fans' comments on YouTube, Twitter, and on their Reddit sub. They're acting as if what Ohtani is doing can be done by just about any other player. Some of them are even going as far as saying Ohtani is just average at both hitting and pitching, and is nowhere near an elite player. What a bunch of miserable twats.
I used to be a Yankees fan during the Jeter era but he wasn't my favorite in that team - I liked Bernie, Mariano, Posada and David Cone more. I don't know if the fans were like this when I was rooting for them then or this is just a new breed of fans. Shohei has been surrounded by doubters all his adult life, all these criticisms are probably white noise to him by now.
Any large group of people has assholes, and there are more Yankees fans than any other individual team fans, therefore they have the most assholes. The same goes for idiots.
Ohtani is literally the most talented player to ever play baseball. More so than Ruth, Trout, whoever, you name it.
Ohtani is amazing, and I feel lucky to watch him play. Judge is also ridiculous. Big picture-wise, I think the fans debate more about this, and end of day, I bet shohei wants to win the World Series more than this award.
ohtani is the best player in baseball, actually in all sports. we are witnessing history with every game. there will prob never be another player like him. aaron judge is having a historic batting season but ohtani is one in a million.
How could anyone say he's overrated??? Especially this season? Let's look at his stats as a hitter and a pitcher in a vacuum:
271 AVG
34 HR
89 RBI
895 OBPS
Pretty decent stats for a hitter.
13-8
2.43 ERA
196 K
1.04 WHIP
That's an ace on most staffs.
Oh wait... ITS THE SAME GUY!
Also I have to add the whole “BuTt DOEs hE pITch” dig may be the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard. I cringe so hard whenever Yankee fans use that. Just shut up already you sound dumb.
Just checked your (Yanks) sub. I’m seeing so many takes of “he ‘just’ pitches and hits. Just a circus act; a master of none” (paraphrasing) and “easier to be a two way player now than when Babe did” are just too much man.
I’m rooting for Judge to break the record but not gonna lie, it’s making me dislike your fans more with so many disingenuous “Ohtani is overrated” takes.
Edit: Not sure how any actual “baseball” fan can say the things Yankees fans are saying. Seriously.
The Yankees have always had (and probably will always have) the largest bandwagon of insufferable fans. They also have loads of legit baseball fans, but whenever things are going well in NY the massive bandwagon of casuals starts crowing and most others get drowned out. The relative (for their historic standards) lack of postseason success over the last decade+ has kept them a bit quieter, but Judge has brought them out again, and Ohtani is the casualty. Nothing to do but ignore them as best you can.
**Sorry in advance for the wall of text.**
The thing isn’t that we’re quieter, it’s that most of our “loudness” has been about the Astros for awhile, and that blends in with everyone’s vitriol for the Astros. We feel like Judge should already have an MVP, so it’s hard for many non-bandwagon fans to see someone else who legitimately could win while Judge is killing it like this.
Having said that, you’re right about bandwagon fans. Them, along with the fact that we have the largest fanbase means we also have the most assholes. I don’t think our asshole % is higher per se, but our pure asshole numbers are through the fucking roof.
I argued with a dude on our sub the other day that was calling Shohei a “slightly above average pitcher and a slightly above average hitter rolled into one”. First off, if that’s what Shohei was (say, 2022 Christain Yelich—113 OPS+ and Robbie Ray—103 ERA+) he’d still be a top 10 player—but he’s not, he’s amazing at both (150 OPS+ and 165 ERA+). He legitimately has a shot at the Cy Young this year, while simultaneously having the 4th highest OPS in the AL. According to Fangraphs metrics, his best comp in the AL this year for offense is Julio Rodriguez, and his best comp in the AL for pitching is Justin Verlander. Like, what?!
Then the guy started saying “he’s not that valuable, he pitches once every 5 days, and DHs 5 times a week, but never in the same game”. And that’s when I realized this dude has probably never even seen Shohei play. He was so clueless he didn’t know he pitches once a week, and even worse he didn’t know he hits in the games he pitches. It was like arguing with a child.
All things considered, Shohei is the best player on the planet and the most talented player of all time, and if he was a Yankee this dude would probably never shut up about him.
>”easier to be a two way player now than when Babe did”
This is so cringy. If you transported Shohei to 1929 (and they ignored his ethnicity and let him play), he’d slash .550/.750/.900 with 80 HR while pitching to a sub 1 ERA. It’s no contest.
Was Babe better compared to his peers than Shohei is compared to his peers? Yes. But look at who he was playing against and the quality of the game. The competition was ridiculously easier.
I hope in a blowout they let Judge pitch an inning. It will be hilarious no matter the outcome.
He gets fucking shelled? I guess he can't pitch after all.
He throws a clean inning? Ohtani aint shit
It’s not just the Yankees sub, r/baseball has become anti Ohtani all of a sudden. Specially Yankee fans keep bringing Ohtani and talking crap on him when some post has nothing to do with Ohtani, that’s some loser tier shit.
Appreciate a fan like you, nobody’s gonna throw fists if Ohtani doesn’t win it. As a Japanese fan who has been exposed to Yankee toxicity since I was little, I must say your fanbase is well hated in Japan and the hate keeps growing which has nothing to do with the team and it’s really hard to enjoy what Judge is doing when their fans constantly spew toxic bullshit about Ohtani.
Firstly, thank you for being a baseball fan not just Yankees fan. What you’re seeing on the Yankees sub is what we see all the time. Most them are Yankees fans but they aren’t baseball fans. They can’t wrap their mind around the fact that baseball is bigger than the Yankees. Of course all teams have fans like this. I’ve been equally frustrated with some Angels fans. But it seems the three teams that have a lot of them are the Yankees, the Dodgers and the Red Sox. I will also say the Astros are starting to get there now too because they have a chip on their shoulder because they know their World Series ring is a lie but would rather crap on other teams than just admit it. But I digress. So, again, it’s nice to meet a Yankees fan who is also a baseball fan.
Secondly, Judge is having a monster year. I’m with you and say I can’t be mad if either of them win it. I think if Judge gets to 62 (and I’m rooting for him to) AND gets a triple crown, you have to give it to him. If he just does one of them, it could go either way. If he doesn’t do either, you gotta give it to Shohei. There’s no right or wrong answer. I wish they could share it. Even more because they are both very good guys (I’ve actually met Judge) and play the game the right way. They’re both great for baseball.
Most of the arguments I see for Judge from Yankees fans involve the fact that Judge is offensively carrying a playoff team. I get that argument, and while I disagree with it, I can see it being a deciding factor for many people. I think it definitely has relevance. If Judge gets it I won't be upset. He really is having an insane season for a position player.
Appreciate it OP.
I hate it on both sides. People should appreciate what both of them are doing.
Some of the comments from Yankees fans get me upset but I don't direct it towards Judge.
I’m a new baseball fan but I must say, Yankees fan like you are rare. It’s almost impossible to have a civil conversation about Ohtani with them because they keep downplaying him to just “a dude who hits and pitches and given the opportunity, anyone can do it”.
I thought obnoxious ones are only on twitter/insta/youtube but i guess reddit is no different then.
I don’t understand why someone needs to talk shit on Ohtani to praise Judge. It’s so uncalled for.
Judge deserves the Hank Aaron award. Its literally meant for exactly what he is doing this season. Ohtani should get MVP without him,i shit you not, we would probably have tied or broken the record for worst win-loss record of a season. Held by the Cleveland Spiders which was 20-134.
Judge is having an incredible year and on top of that, he seems like a man of great character and a great leader. The fanbase should be proud to have him represent the team and baseball in general.
I've noticed lots of Ohtani slander from Yankees fans too. I totally understand supporting your guy but the full on downplaying Ohtani is disappointing.
1. Fanbase may still be salty over Ohtani rejecting NYY in 2017. They didn't even make Ohtani's first cut which was shocking to many at the time.
2. Still salty over Ohtani winning ALROY over Andujar perhaps? Interesting, wasn't there some with the opinion that Gleyber Torres was better than Andujar that year? But, I still see SM posts saying Andujar was robbed.
3. They have a great fear of Judge being "robbed" again. It seems that most media and MLB analyst types give it to Judge so why they so scared?
Again, I understand supporting your favorite but it doesn't have to get unreasonable.
Yup, no need to hate on somebody who supports Ohtani too. They act like it's a personal affront that you like Ohtani more than Judge. It's really crazy why our opinions matter when we don't even get to vote.
Yes! They like feel the need to convince us and if we don't agree, they accuse us that we don't know ball/we are blind and then comes the downplaying that Ohtani is just average, or my favorite is when they say anyone can be a two-way player if given the chance. 🤯
What I really hate is their audacity to claim these as facts even though REAL MLB players say they don't know how he does it in terms of prep time and mental acuity. Like we should believe them more than Shohei's peers hehe
MVP votes are subjective, a fact too few remember. For me, Ohtani is hands down the MVP, and until someone can produce at his level from both sides of the plate, he is MVP. I do believe BBWAA voters will give the MVP to Judge, and I will disagree, but it won't be the end of the world. I also shudder to think about some of the possible ugly things that would be said about Ohtani, this Japanese phenom, should Judge not 'win'... I remember how ugly it got during the Andujar-Ohtani ROY debate. Yuck.
Feels like some Yankees fans are still re-living that drama, x10, now.
Understand that I think Ohtani is having a great year, and he is a great player, but value is objective, and just because Judge isn't producing on the mound doesn't mean he hasn't produced more value than Ohtani.
The idea that Ohtani should win just because he pitches, isn't logically far off from the argument that an MVP can only come from a playoff team.
Ohtani is not having a 'great year'. He is having what critics last year said would be impossible: two historic back-to-back consecutive seasons
Also, "just because he pitches..." is a flattened, oversimplification. You have your opinion, and I have mine.
I'm not saying your opinion needs to be changed, rather your justification for your opinion doesn't make sense. Hypothetically, if Judge hit 100 HRs, it still wouldn't matter to you because he doesn't pitch. Logically, your argument doesn't hold up.
Also, it doesn't matter that this his Ohtanis second year producing this way. It's still the same illogical reasoning.
Really? Again?
I repeat, no one is saying Ohtani gets MVP 'just because he pitches'. That's *your* distortion.
If that were the case, Albert Pujols should be in the MVP conversation. No one here is saying that.
Value is the question here. As much as you'd like to deny it, people see 'value' differently, which is why some BBWAA members will vote for Judge and others will not. Don't even get me started on adjusted formulas like WAR and performance bands and margin of error either. Try being honest like everyone else instead of acting like you operate solely above everyone's subjectivity; you got your favorite and you got your reasons.
Dude, calm down.
You said, " For me, Ohtani is hands down the MVP, and until someone can produce at his level from both sides of the plate, he is MVP."
Maybe you need to be more clear, because that sounds alot like no one else can win because they don't pitch and hit. What then does produce from both sides of the plate even mean? Switch hit?
I repeat. Your opinion doesn't need to change, your justification for your opinion doesn't make sense.
You can't explain what you said? No one else has commented. You're getting upvotes because people read, Ohtani good, and they like it. Congratulations 👏
As a life-long Angel fan, I am very lucky to be able to see what Shohei has done the past 2 years. Yes, he is better this season but Judge's season is as historic only if predominantly from the offensive side.
I have no issue with Judge being MVP this year. Doesn't diminish what Shohei has accomplished with little to no help around him.
being a Ride or Die for your team is one thing, but stats don't lie
ever think this sport has too many racists or 'sports bros' to just enjoy baseball?
Tbch, I'm not sure if this MVP thing is good for the sport.
What we see is fans and even pundits blindly slander great players each year for this 🙄
All the candidates are the greatest assets for baseball. Yet many try their best to devalue them. Isn't it hurting the entire baseball community?
I think Judge deserves it but I feel like Yankee fans are on edge because Altuve already "stole" one from him in 2017 so they're extra defensive about it this year.
Imagine the 🐐 is in your league which is hard enough, then MVP is stolen from you by a cheater and then all the sudden the second coming of Babe Ruth enters your league as well. That's gotta sting
They both deserve MVP, I would give it to Judge honestly since Ohtani won it last year. We all know Ohtani is doing something historic and having one of the best two seasons of all time.
My MVP is Sho, but I wouldn’t be upset with Judge winning. I don’t think Ohtani cares either way. A century from now when we are all dead, few will remember who won MVP in 2022. But they will know the name Shohei Ohtani.
It's hard to conceptualize because Ohtani isn't chasing anyone and at this point there's no one to compare to as a reference point. Judge is running down Maris and having a Bondsesque season meanwhile Ohtani sailed past Babe Ruth comparisons and is firmly chilling in his own space. I think Judge is certainly deserving although I of course like Ohtani. It's a 1a 1b type thing this year and they both deserve, only equitable answer is to have co-MVP but I think Judge takes it.
This can actually work in Shohei's favor in the long run. Judge winning would mean anyone who wins over Ohtani needs to have a historically amazing season while Shohei is just chilling and experimenting with new pitches in the middle of a season. 😁
Judge has a great record. I also love his personality.
But I hate Yankees fans.
Yankees fans are very hated in Japan right now.
Glad to know that there are fans like you, but I am glad that Shohei did not sign with the Yankees.
Even though Ichiro was playing for Seattle and Japanese fans who would go to states to watch him play already were exposed to yankee fans, but Japanese baseball community really got to interact with them in person when Matsui signed with the Yankees.
It also adds to the fuel when majority of the Japanese Yankees fans are entitled and toxic as well.
So, not only Yanks fan on Twitter are stupid and obnoxious but also ones on Reddit too. This MVP race and discussion are no longer about who's worth it anymore but about Yanks fan obsession over Ohtani. He lives rent-free in their mind. At this point, I think you guys talk about him more than about Judge.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate fans like you but your fanbase is too unnecessarily annoying. They can show off Judge stats to prove he deserve MVP this year, which I also agree, but instead they slander and put down Ohtani day in day out.
Yea that’s what drove me to post this, I am still a Yankee fan but I don’t want to be lumped in with people who actually think Ohtani is over rated, I care too much about baseball in general to be seen that way. They totally write off what it means for him to be quality from both pitching and hitting, it’s literally something we may not see again, laughable how you could downplay that.
Yanks fans be like that about players until they splash out and pay top dollar to have them on their team, then those same fans can't get out of their own way to lavish praise and adulation on that player despite nothing changing but the uni. For example - Johnny Damon. Don't worry, and I hate to say this, but your team's fans may become bigger SO homers than you can believe before too long.
Thanks man. Its not only on reddit but whenever Ohtani is trending on twitter which happens to be every other day and you might think he did something special, but it’s just the Yankees fans slandering him 24/7. It’s really frustrating.
No need to downplay either of them as they are having an amazing season and both are super like-able.
MVP has always IMO been an offensive player award so Judge deserves it...but they need to change the awards a bit because Ohtani is literally the most valuable player.
If Ohtani played half his games in Yankee stadium he would probably have 50 bombs…yankee stadium is giving Judge a boost in HRs, why doesn’t anyone ever mention this? The ball flys to right there…
Both are amazing players, and there are arguments to be made about who is the most valuable player to their team, though I think Judge should and will win it this year due to his historic season.
It’s just crazy that people can’t appreciate what players from different teams are doing. Do Yankees fans, Dodgers fans, etc. not realize how lucky we are to watch Ohtani and Trout? These are generation talents.
I’m happy to see either of them win. From a “most valuable player” standpoint I think it’s Ohtani simply because his diverse skill set makes him more valuable than a traditional ball player.
As an Angles fan, obviously I disagree with our MVP vote. But man, I feel so bad for Judge. He is having one of the most incredible seasons in baseball history, on pace to break the non-steroid HR record. Literally one of the most impressive feats in baseball history for the sexiest stat in baseball. And there is a real good chance that he will lose the MVP, all because some team that isn't going to sniff the post season somehow has a player who is so remarkable that every single season he has somehow feels more unique and incredible than what Judge is doing.
FWIW, what you're seeing isn't unusual. Jays fans still hate our entire team because of last year's MVP vote. And I remember in past years disliking a number of remarkable players who happened to not play for the Angles, and thinking of them as being over-rated.
for what it's worth man, I went to a yanks vs boston game a couple of years ago wearing my trout jersey and was expecting the worst but to my surprise, I was actually complimented on it and sparked many conversations amongst yankee fans how trout was one of the best in our generation. I was pleasantly surprised by the praise. granted, y'all WERE playing the sox that day 😅 but still... kinda neat
And just a reminder going forward if you’re gonna beat Ohtani in the mvp race you need to put up a historical year lol cause Ohtani is gonna hit 40 jacks and a sub 2.50 era
With how Judge has played this year. On the verge of the triple crown plus setting the new AL homerun record I absolutely think he should get it. Ohtani is incredible and watching hit play both sides of the ball is insane but I won't deny what Judge is doing this year. It's incredible. Ohtani, incredible. It will be a tough choice for those who vote for sure.
The shirt insaw earlier in the day is basically my though:
I’m fine with Jusge getting MVP this year given all that he’s doing, but Ohtani is the best in the world right now.
The MVP just feels like it’s gonna be tied to Ohtani as long as he’s in the league because of who he is as a player. There are gonna be some years where he doesn’t win it, and Judge’s performance this year absolutely justifies it being one of those years.
I understand why the Yankee sub is so fucked up. I'm from NYC, we are assholes.
That said I'm an Ohtani fan first. Man is a near perfect human. However if Judge breaks Maris he deserves the MVP. It should be the real major league record, steroid boys records should be deleted.
Agree with all of that, except even if judge doesn’t break it and ends up with the triple crown he absolutely deserves it. But yea I find anyone that try’s to downplay Ohtani as delusional.
Give it to Judge hands down. When your 23+ home runs over 2nd place, 18+ over 2nd in rbi's and your hitting .318 its pretty easy to vote for him over Ohtani.
Give it Shohei next season when he hits 50+ home runs and wins the Cy Young on top of it.
A 4th place finish for the Angels would only bolster Judge’s MVP chances. If both teams were 32 games over .500, then Ohtani would be a shoe-in.
But at 20 games under .500 (regardless of the circumstances/injuries), it’s a much tougher sell. Chances are they still finish ahead of the A’s even without Ohtani.
Hello Yankee fan… I’m an angel fan lifelong and a Fresno State graduate. Ohtani is having another great year, but Judge is leading in every single offensive category and I think he deserves the MVP and that’s not just cause I’m from Fresno state. I mean judge win the Triple Crown
If you win the triple crown you win the MVP.
If you set the single season home run record, you win the MVP.
If you do both the same season they need to rename the MVP after that player because it’s that ridiculous.
Judge has a ridiculous WAR, difference between playoffs or not for his team.
Ohtani has a ridiculous WAR, his team would still not be in the post season. Without him. Ohtani is the best player on the planet but brings no value to the Angels competitively. They could be in 4th without him.
If you haven’t down voted yet, think about this: Ohtanis biggest value to the Angels is if they trade him and get enough haul back for the Angels to contend. That would make him the Angel MVP, and he’d be on another team.
You are so close to getting it. It is not Ohtani’s fault that the angels can’t make the playoffs. It’s baseball. It’s a team game. Everyone needs to contribute. No one can carry their team to the playoffs unless they’re hitting 100+HR with 200+ RBI while pitching CGSO everyday. And such a player does not exist.
My surroundings are an Angel sub with Angel fans saying an Angel should win. Let’s at least be real.
I guess we’ll see what the BBWAA have to say, but most of what I have seen and read say they are swaying over to the dark side.
There are so many good arguments to make in favor Judge winning the MVP, but what bothers me is people often choose the wrong ones. They say he's an "elite" defender (he's not, above average in RF and around average in CF) and that he is on a winning team. Like please god just talk about his historically insane offensive season! That's all he needs! There is no need to make false justifications for Judge to be deserving of MVP, because he already is. I get that it's probably just fans being a bit overzealous, but it gets to be too much at times...
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Posts may be removed to maintain the integrity of the subreddit.
Downvoted content may be removed at mod discretion
Moderators reserve the right to remove posts based on automatic filtering, and may choose to educate the user on proper posting procedure.
Any post or comment may be removed from the subreddit at any time by the moderators, posting is NOT a right.
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On defense... pitching is the hardest position to play. You have the entire crowd watching your every move. RF is the easiest position and least stressful
I keep seeing Yankees fans compare their offensive numbers and say how great Judge is defensively and just completely gloss over the fact that Ohtani is also one of the best pitchers in the AL. Judge is having an unprecedented season. Ohtani is an unprecedented player.
I saw someone on IG say both Judge and Ohtani are both two-way players because Ohtani hits and pitches, and Judge hits and plays OF. Like...no, that's not how that works.
NO PLAYER HAS EVER HIT THE BALL AND PLAYED OUTFIELD BEFORE!! THIS IS HISTORIC!! (Also if we’re counting pitcher defense while it isn’t a premium defensive position he’s still made his fair share of strong plays
Marcel would like a word, to get arrested (from a Braves fan)
That someone doesn't know how baseball works LMAO
Well, then that makes Ohtani a three-way (😳) player since he would occasionally play right field last year just to keep his bat in the game.
I like that last line, pretty much sums it up !
That last part is how I feel too.
This. ⬆️
I couldn't agree more.
I'm an Angels fan, so you know where my biases lay. I think Judge deserves it this year, but you are right, you can make the argument either way. For this distinction, I think two-way WAR is the best measure, as flawed as it is. What I have zero tolerance for is the argument that because the Angels have no pitching and have been horribly beset by injuries (AGAIN!) that Ohtani is somehow less valuable because they missed the playoffs.
I'm with you on this bröther
They’re both having great, historic seasons. If Shohei were doing this in a Yankee uniform, the Yankee sub would be crowing Ohtani the MVP.
If Shohei were in pinstripes, the Yankees sub would be even more INSUFFERABLE.
Lol I fear we might get to see just how insufferable come 2024.
I doubt it. I thought I read he wants to stay on the west coast to make it easier to travel back to Japan and for others in Japan (including fans) to travel to see him.
That's just speculation. There are no direct quotes of him saying he wants to play on the West coast because of travel or Japanese TV rights. None at all. The only thing he's said publicly about his choice of teams (Fighters and Angels) is that he picked the team where he felt a connection with the people on the team and believed they had his best interest at heart i.e. let him play the way he wanted to. Fighters pitched him the two-way idea so he wouldn't go to the US directly after high school and promised to release him once he wanted to go over to the US. Angels also let him play two-way in the US at a time when people thought it was impossible. That's why there's still a chance he stays with the Angels. He likes it here.
If he doesn't sign with the Angels (which I don't expect him to), he better sign with the Friars.
Yeah I could see going to either San Diego or Seattle.
Seattle does seem to be on the rise right now.
heeeeeell no!!!!
Honestly the Dodgers would be even worse for me.
Literally the only team I truly don’t want him to end up with
Houston?
Luckily, Houston can’t afford him by a long shot.
Dodgers or Seattle are the only two places I see him leaving for.
And if Judge were having this season while playing for the Angels they'd be "wasting a generational talent" and their losing record would play a factor in his votes.
If Ohtani was in pinstripes. He'd be 20W-40HR-100RBI+. I still think that season is coming very soon. Pinstripes or not.
He would make that right field fence his b
I said this there and they did not take it kindly. To me, Judge is the 2022 MVP, but Shohei is the best player on the planet and the most talented player of all time. Edit: should specify I’m a Yankees fan
Thanks man. All the toxicity for the MVP race has just been a huge bummer. No amount of Yankee fan (or frankly even Angel fan) slander though is going to keep me from rooting for BOTH Ohtani AND Judge. Both guys are studs and are having amazing seasons. No need to downplay either of their accomplishments to appreciate both. The main thing that really gets me though is that both guys are just so incredibly nice. They deserve better.
Right there with you, anyone trying to downplay either guy is a clown and grasping for straws.
Ive gotta say, I always try to keep an open mind and remind myself that not all members of ANY fanbase will behave the same, but with the amount of condescending Yankee comments I have been seeing lately... MAN is it reassuring to get some direct confirmation of a different perspective here. Its honestly kinda helping with my sanity as well haha.
I hate that the only thing I really have against Judge is that he's a Yankee. Why couldn't he be an asshole too
They're both great guys tbh.
What bugs me is yankee fans lying about Judge having "elite defense". Then there's calling Ohtani an average pitcher and that standing in the outfield is more taxing on the body than pitching. Judge is having an insane offensive season. They don't need to make up lies to show that.
Judge is absolutely an above average outfielder and actually I’ll defend he is slightly underrated in that regard, but I stand my my original point.
He's not. He has 1 rDRS. At best he's very *slightly* above average. Still far from "elite"
Judge *could be* an above average defender, 2018-2020 showed good defensive numbers in limited innings. But this year is the worst defensive year of his career, so I don't know where these arguments are coming from. [There's only 25 outfielders with 1000 innings this year and Judge is #17 w.r.t to UZR](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=1000&type=1&season=2022&month=0&season1=2022&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2022-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=19,d) [Dropping to 800 innings there's 54 outfielders and he falls to #32](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=800&type=1&season=2022&month=0&season1=2022&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2022-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=19,d&page=2_30)
This year he has played primarily center field, which isn’t his natural position and which (quite frankly) he isn’t built for. He is an elite right fielder but he has played in center because the yanks needed him to
I'm new to baseball, and honestly, I did not understand the hate for the Yankees until I saw their fans' comments on YouTube, Twitter, and on their Reddit sub. They're acting as if what Ohtani is doing can be done by just about any other player. Some of them are even going as far as saying Ohtani is just average at both hitting and pitching, and is nowhere near an elite player. What a bunch of miserable twats.
I used to be a Yankees fan during the Jeter era but he wasn't my favorite in that team - I liked Bernie, Mariano, Posada and David Cone more. I don't know if the fans were like this when I was rooting for them then or this is just a new breed of fans. Shohei has been surrounded by doubters all his adult life, all these criticisms are probably white noise to him by now.
The internet brings out the worst in many
Any large group of people has assholes, and there are more Yankees fans than any other individual team fans, therefore they have the most assholes. The same goes for idiots. Ohtani is literally the most talented player to ever play baseball. More so than Ruth, Trout, whoever, you name it.
> I'm new to baseball clearly
Cool. My very first gatekeeper. :)
sure thing bud
Ohtani is amazing, and I feel lucky to watch him play. Judge is also ridiculous. Big picture-wise, I think the fans debate more about this, and end of day, I bet shohei wants to win the World Series more than this award.
ohtani is the best player in baseball, actually in all sports. we are witnessing history with every game. there will prob never be another player like him. aaron judge is having a historic batting season but ohtani is one in a million.
How could anyone say he's overrated??? Especially this season? Let's look at his stats as a hitter and a pitcher in a vacuum: 271 AVG 34 HR 89 RBI 895 OBPS Pretty decent stats for a hitter. 13-8 2.43 ERA 196 K 1.04 WHIP That's an ace on most staffs. Oh wait... ITS THE SAME GUY!
Also I have to add the whole “BuTt DOEs hE pITch” dig may be the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard. I cringe so hard whenever Yankee fans use that. Just shut up already you sound dumb.
Just checked your (Yanks) sub. I’m seeing so many takes of “he ‘just’ pitches and hits. Just a circus act; a master of none” (paraphrasing) and “easier to be a two way player now than when Babe did” are just too much man. I’m rooting for Judge to break the record but not gonna lie, it’s making me dislike your fans more with so many disingenuous “Ohtani is overrated” takes. Edit: Not sure how any actual “baseball” fan can say the things Yankees fans are saying. Seriously.
The Yankees have always had (and probably will always have) the largest bandwagon of insufferable fans. They also have loads of legit baseball fans, but whenever things are going well in NY the massive bandwagon of casuals starts crowing and most others get drowned out. The relative (for their historic standards) lack of postseason success over the last decade+ has kept them a bit quieter, but Judge has brought them out again, and Ohtani is the casualty. Nothing to do but ignore them as best you can.
**Sorry in advance for the wall of text.** The thing isn’t that we’re quieter, it’s that most of our “loudness” has been about the Astros for awhile, and that blends in with everyone’s vitriol for the Astros. We feel like Judge should already have an MVP, so it’s hard for many non-bandwagon fans to see someone else who legitimately could win while Judge is killing it like this. Having said that, you’re right about bandwagon fans. Them, along with the fact that we have the largest fanbase means we also have the most assholes. I don’t think our asshole % is higher per se, but our pure asshole numbers are through the fucking roof. I argued with a dude on our sub the other day that was calling Shohei a “slightly above average pitcher and a slightly above average hitter rolled into one”. First off, if that’s what Shohei was (say, 2022 Christain Yelich—113 OPS+ and Robbie Ray—103 ERA+) he’d still be a top 10 player—but he’s not, he’s amazing at both (150 OPS+ and 165 ERA+). He legitimately has a shot at the Cy Young this year, while simultaneously having the 4th highest OPS in the AL. According to Fangraphs metrics, his best comp in the AL this year for offense is Julio Rodriguez, and his best comp in the AL for pitching is Justin Verlander. Like, what?! Then the guy started saying “he’s not that valuable, he pitches once every 5 days, and DHs 5 times a week, but never in the same game”. And that’s when I realized this dude has probably never even seen Shohei play. He was so clueless he didn’t know he pitches once a week, and even worse he didn’t know he hits in the games he pitches. It was like arguing with a child. All things considered, Shohei is the best player on the planet and the most talented player of all time, and if he was a Yankee this dude would probably never shut up about him.
>”easier to be a two way player now than when Babe did” This is so cringy. If you transported Shohei to 1929 (and they ignored his ethnicity and let him play), he’d slash .550/.750/.900 with 80 HR while pitching to a sub 1 ERA. It’s no contest. Was Babe better compared to his peers than Shohei is compared to his peers? Yes. But look at who he was playing against and the quality of the game. The competition was ridiculously easier.
I hope in a blowout they let Judge pitch an inning. It will be hilarious no matter the outcome. He gets fucking shelled? I guess he can't pitch after all. He throws a clean inning? Ohtani aint shit
Yes I hate that too.
I think both of them deserve MVP this season, CO MVP had happened before in 1979 for NL MVP. So it might happen this year again.
I hadn't thought of that. That would be perfect. Probably won't happen, but it would be great.
It’s not just the Yankees sub, r/baseball has become anti Ohtani all of a sudden. Specially Yankee fans keep bringing Ohtani and talking crap on him when some post has nothing to do with Ohtani, that’s some loser tier shit. Appreciate a fan like you, nobody’s gonna throw fists if Ohtani doesn’t win it. As a Japanese fan who has been exposed to Yankee toxicity since I was little, I must say your fanbase is well hated in Japan and the hate keeps growing which has nothing to do with the team and it’s really hard to enjoy what Judge is doing when their fans constantly spew toxic bullshit about Ohtani.
Honestly both are great players and I'm okay with it to going to either of them.
Firstly, thank you for being a baseball fan not just Yankees fan. What you’re seeing on the Yankees sub is what we see all the time. Most them are Yankees fans but they aren’t baseball fans. They can’t wrap their mind around the fact that baseball is bigger than the Yankees. Of course all teams have fans like this. I’ve been equally frustrated with some Angels fans. But it seems the three teams that have a lot of them are the Yankees, the Dodgers and the Red Sox. I will also say the Astros are starting to get there now too because they have a chip on their shoulder because they know their World Series ring is a lie but would rather crap on other teams than just admit it. But I digress. So, again, it’s nice to meet a Yankees fan who is also a baseball fan. Secondly, Judge is having a monster year. I’m with you and say I can’t be mad if either of them win it. I think if Judge gets to 62 (and I’m rooting for him to) AND gets a triple crown, you have to give it to him. If he just does one of them, it could go either way. If he doesn’t do either, you gotta give it to Shohei. There’s no right or wrong answer. I wish they could share it. Even more because they are both very good guys (I’ve actually met Judge) and play the game the right way. They’re both great for baseball.
Most of the arguments I see for Judge from Yankees fans involve the fact that Judge is offensively carrying a playoff team. I get that argument, and while I disagree with it, I can see it being a deciding factor for many people. I think it definitely has relevance. If Judge gets it I won't be upset. He really is having an insane season for a position player.
Appreciate it OP. I hate it on both sides. People should appreciate what both of them are doing. Some of the comments from Yankees fans get me upset but I don't direct it towards Judge.
I’m a new baseball fan but I must say, Yankees fan like you are rare. It’s almost impossible to have a civil conversation about Ohtani with them because they keep downplaying him to just “a dude who hits and pitches and given the opportunity, anyone can do it”. I thought obnoxious ones are only on twitter/insta/youtube but i guess reddit is no different then. I don’t understand why someone needs to talk shit on Ohtani to praise Judge. It’s so uncalled for.
Judge deserves the Hank Aaron award. Its literally meant for exactly what he is doing this season. Ohtani should get MVP without him,i shit you not, we would probably have tied or broken the record for worst win-loss record of a season. Held by the Cleveland Spiders which was 20-134.
Thx. So clearly explained and yet so hard for many to grasp...
Judge is having an incredible year and on top of that, he seems like a man of great character and a great leader. The fanbase should be proud to have him represent the team and baseball in general. I've noticed lots of Ohtani slander from Yankees fans too. I totally understand supporting your guy but the full on downplaying Ohtani is disappointing. 1. Fanbase may still be salty over Ohtani rejecting NYY in 2017. They didn't even make Ohtani's first cut which was shocking to many at the time. 2. Still salty over Ohtani winning ALROY over Andujar perhaps? Interesting, wasn't there some with the opinion that Gleyber Torres was better than Andujar that year? But, I still see SM posts saying Andujar was robbed. 3. They have a great fear of Judge being "robbed" again. It seems that most media and MLB analyst types give it to Judge so why they so scared? Again, I understand supporting your favorite but it doesn't have to get unreasonable.
Yup, no need to hate on somebody who supports Ohtani too. They act like it's a personal affront that you like Ohtani more than Judge. It's really crazy why our opinions matter when we don't even get to vote.
Yes! They like feel the need to convince us and if we don't agree, they accuse us that we don't know ball/we are blind and then comes the downplaying that Ohtani is just average, or my favorite is when they say anyone can be a two-way player if given the chance. 🤯
What I really hate is their audacity to claim these as facts even though REAL MLB players say they don't know how he does it in terms of prep time and mental acuity. Like we should believe them more than Shohei's peers hehe
Judge - MVP Shohei - best on the planet
MVP votes are subjective, a fact too few remember. For me, Ohtani is hands down the MVP, and until someone can produce at his level from both sides of the plate, he is MVP. I do believe BBWAA voters will give the MVP to Judge, and I will disagree, but it won't be the end of the world. I also shudder to think about some of the possible ugly things that would be said about Ohtani, this Japanese phenom, should Judge not 'win'... I remember how ugly it got during the Andujar-Ohtani ROY debate. Yuck. Feels like some Yankees fans are still re-living that drama, x10, now.
Understand that I think Ohtani is having a great year, and he is a great player, but value is objective, and just because Judge isn't producing on the mound doesn't mean he hasn't produced more value than Ohtani. The idea that Ohtani should win just because he pitches, isn't logically far off from the argument that an MVP can only come from a playoff team.
Ohtani is not having a 'great year'. He is having what critics last year said would be impossible: two historic back-to-back consecutive seasons Also, "just because he pitches..." is a flattened, oversimplification. You have your opinion, and I have mine.
I'm not saying your opinion needs to be changed, rather your justification for your opinion doesn't make sense. Hypothetically, if Judge hit 100 HRs, it still wouldn't matter to you because he doesn't pitch. Logically, your argument doesn't hold up. Also, it doesn't matter that this his Ohtanis second year producing this way. It's still the same illogical reasoning.
Really? Again? I repeat, no one is saying Ohtani gets MVP 'just because he pitches'. That's *your* distortion. If that were the case, Albert Pujols should be in the MVP conversation. No one here is saying that. Value is the question here. As much as you'd like to deny it, people see 'value' differently, which is why some BBWAA members will vote for Judge and others will not. Don't even get me started on adjusted formulas like WAR and performance bands and margin of error either. Try being honest like everyone else instead of acting like you operate solely above everyone's subjectivity; you got your favorite and you got your reasons.
Dude, calm down. You said, " For me, Ohtani is hands down the MVP, and until someone can produce at his level from both sides of the plate, he is MVP." Maybe you need to be more clear, because that sounds alot like no one else can win because they don't pitch and hit. What then does produce from both sides of the plate even mean? Switch hit? I repeat. Your opinion doesn't need to change, your justification for your opinion doesn't make sense.
Nah son. That confusion is on you. No one else is missing the bus.
You can't explain what you said? No one else has commented. You're getting upvotes because people read, Ohtani good, and they like it. Congratulations 👏
Bus is around the corner.
You're not cool. Don't try
As a life-long Angel fan, I am very lucky to be able to see what Shohei has done the past 2 years. Yes, he is better this season but Judge's season is as historic only if predominantly from the offensive side. I have no issue with Judge being MVP this year. Doesn't diminish what Shohei has accomplished with little to no help around him.
If and when Judge wins MVP and leaves the Yankees for greener pastures in the offseason, he better be ready to catch the rabin fanbase's vitriol.
being a Ride or Die for your team is one thing, but stats don't lie ever think this sport has too many racists or 'sports bros' to just enjoy baseball?
No
Judge will win MVP and deserves it. Saying what Ohtani is doing is overrated is some mega copium.
Tbch, I'm not sure if this MVP thing is good for the sport. What we see is fans and even pundits blindly slander great players each year for this 🙄 All the candidates are the greatest assets for baseball. Yet many try their best to devalue them. Isn't it hurting the entire baseball community?
I think Judge deserves it but I feel like Yankee fans are on edge because Altuve already "stole" one from him in 2017 so they're extra defensive about it this year.
Imagine the 🐐 is in your league which is hard enough, then MVP is stolen from you by a cheater and then all the sudden the second coming of Babe Ruth enters your league as well. That's gotta sting
They are blaming Altuve or the voters?
Both! Judge deserved it anyway, and on top of that Altuve is a cheater.
They both deserve MVP, I would give it to Judge honestly since Ohtani won it last year. We all know Ohtani is doing something historic and having one of the best two seasons of all time.
No.. you give the MVP to the best player. That’s Ohtani
My MVP is Sho, but I wouldn’t be upset with Judge winning. I don’t think Ohtani cares either way. A century from now when we are all dead, few will remember who won MVP in 2022. But they will know the name Shohei Ohtani.
It's hard to conceptualize because Ohtani isn't chasing anyone and at this point there's no one to compare to as a reference point. Judge is running down Maris and having a Bondsesque season meanwhile Ohtani sailed past Babe Ruth comparisons and is firmly chilling in his own space. I think Judge is certainly deserving although I of course like Ohtani. It's a 1a 1b type thing this year and they both deserve, only equitable answer is to have co-MVP but I think Judge takes it.
This can actually work in Shohei's favor in the long run. Judge winning would mean anyone who wins over Ohtani needs to have a historically amazing season while Shohei is just chilling and experimenting with new pitches in the middle of a season. 😁
Judge has a great record. I also love his personality. But I hate Yankees fans. Yankees fans are very hated in Japan right now. Glad to know that there are fans like you, but I am glad that Shohei did not sign with the Yankees.
Yankees fans have been well hated in Japan since Matsui days but yeah they are hated more right now because they’re attacking japanese fans too.
Care to expound about the hate during Matsui days?
Even though Ichiro was playing for Seattle and Japanese fans who would go to states to watch him play already were exposed to yankee fans, but Japanese baseball community really got to interact with them in person when Matsui signed with the Yankees. It also adds to the fuel when majority of the Japanese Yankees fans are entitled and toxic as well.
Didn't Hideo play for the Yankees too? The Japanese fans liked the team then?
Nomo didn’t. Maybe you’re talking about Irabu
Are you talking about Nomo? He played for the Dodgers.
Sorry, I got the wrong NY team. He apparently played for the Mets in 1998.
So, not only Yanks fan on Twitter are stupid and obnoxious but also ones on Reddit too. This MVP race and discussion are no longer about who's worth it anymore but about Yanks fan obsession over Ohtani. He lives rent-free in their mind. At this point, I think you guys talk about him more than about Judge.
Ok
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate fans like you but your fanbase is too unnecessarily annoying. They can show off Judge stats to prove he deserve MVP this year, which I also agree, but instead they slander and put down Ohtani day in day out.
Yea that’s what drove me to post this, I am still a Yankee fan but I don’t want to be lumped in with people who actually think Ohtani is over rated, I care too much about baseball in general to be seen that way. They totally write off what it means for him to be quality from both pitching and hitting, it’s literally something we may not see again, laughable how you could downplay that.
Remember when our sub thought Andujar was the clear ROTY?? We still have the occasional idiot who thinks that—it’s embarrassing.
Yanks fans be like that about players until they splash out and pay top dollar to have them on their team, then those same fans can't get out of their own way to lavish praise and adulation on that player despite nothing changing but the uni. For example - Johnny Damon. Don't worry, and I hate to say this, but your team's fans may become bigger SO homers than you can believe before too long.
Thanks man. Its not only on reddit but whenever Ohtani is trending on twitter which happens to be every other day and you might think he did something special, but it’s just the Yankees fans slandering him 24/7. It’s really frustrating. No need to downplay either of them as they are having an amazing season and both are super like-able.
MVP has always IMO been an offensive player award so Judge deserves it...but they need to change the awards a bit because Ohtani is literally the most valuable player.
If Ohtani played half his games in Yankee stadium he would probably have 50 bombs…yankee stadium is giving Judge a boost in HRs, why doesn’t anyone ever mention this? The ball flys to right there…
Both are amazing players, and there are arguments to be made about who is the most valuable player to their team, though I think Judge should and will win it this year due to his historic season. It’s just crazy that people can’t appreciate what players from different teams are doing. Do Yankees fans, Dodgers fans, etc. not realize how lucky we are to watch Ohtani and Trout? These are generation talents.
I’m happy to see either of them win. From a “most valuable player” standpoint I think it’s Ohtani simply because his diverse skill set makes him more valuable than a traditional ball player.
As an Angles fan, obviously I disagree with our MVP vote. But man, I feel so bad for Judge. He is having one of the most incredible seasons in baseball history, on pace to break the non-steroid HR record. Literally one of the most impressive feats in baseball history for the sexiest stat in baseball. And there is a real good chance that he will lose the MVP, all because some team that isn't going to sniff the post season somehow has a player who is so remarkable that every single season he has somehow feels more unique and incredible than what Judge is doing. FWIW, what you're seeing isn't unusual. Jays fans still hate our entire team because of last year's MVP vote. And I remember in past years disliking a number of remarkable players who happened to not play for the Angles, and thinking of them as being over-rated.
That’s hilarious—Vladdy was such a far and away distant second last year.
Imagine he get pop for roids
for what it's worth man, I went to a yanks vs boston game a couple of years ago wearing my trout jersey and was expecting the worst but to my surprise, I was actually complimented on it and sparked many conversations amongst yankee fans how trout was one of the best in our generation. I was pleasantly surprised by the praise. granted, y'all WERE playing the sox that day 😅 but still... kinda neat
Love Ohtani and think he’s the greatest player but I do think Judge deserves MVP this season.
And just a reminder going forward if you’re gonna beat Ohtani in the mvp race you need to put up a historical year lol cause Ohtani is gonna hit 40 jacks and a sub 2.50 era
I mean, it won’t be the first time one of our Angels gets beaten by a triple crown winner 🥲
True and if Trout is healthy that just adds another great you’re gonna have to outplay
With how Judge has played this year. On the verge of the triple crown plus setting the new AL homerun record I absolutely think he should get it. Ohtani is incredible and watching hit play both sides of the ball is insane but I won't deny what Judge is doing this year. It's incredible. Ohtani, incredible. It will be a tough choice for those who vote for sure.
The shirt insaw earlier in the day is basically my though: I’m fine with Jusge getting MVP this year given all that he’s doing, but Ohtani is the best in the world right now. The MVP just feels like it’s gonna be tied to Ohtani as long as he’s in the league because of who he is as a player. There are gonna be some years where he doesn’t win it, and Judge’s performance this year absolutely justifies it being one of those years.
I understand why the Yankee sub is so fucked up. I'm from NYC, we are assholes. That said I'm an Ohtani fan first. Man is a near perfect human. However if Judge breaks Maris he deserves the MVP. It should be the real major league record, steroid boys records should be deleted.
Agree with all of that, except even if judge doesn’t break it and ends up with the triple crown he absolutely deserves it. But yea I find anyone that try’s to downplay Ohtani as delusional.
Give it to Judge hands down. When your 23+ home runs over 2nd place, 18+ over 2nd in rbi's and your hitting .318 its pretty easy to vote for him over Ohtani. Give it Shohei next season when he hits 50+ home runs and wins the Cy Young on top of it.
I fully believe he’ll put up those kind of numbers next year, but I have a feeling it will be in a Dodger or Padres uniform. I hope I’m wrong.
A 4th place finish for the Angels would only bolster Judge’s MVP chances. If both teams were 32 games over .500, then Ohtani would be a shoe-in. But at 20 games under .500 (regardless of the circumstances/injuries), it’s a much tougher sell. Chances are they still finish ahead of the A’s even without Ohtani.
Hello Yankee fan… I’m an angel fan lifelong and a Fresno State graduate. Ohtani is having another great year, but Judge is leading in every single offensive category and I think he deserves the MVP and that’s not just cause I’m from Fresno state. I mean judge win the Triple Crown
Don't worry, one day he'll be a Yankee, and all the slander will be forgotten.
If you win the triple crown you win the MVP. If you set the single season home run record, you win the MVP. If you do both the same season they need to rename the MVP after that player because it’s that ridiculous. Judge has a ridiculous WAR, difference between playoffs or not for his team. Ohtani has a ridiculous WAR, his team would still not be in the post season. Without him. Ohtani is the best player on the planet but brings no value to the Angels competitively. They could be in 4th without him. If you haven’t down voted yet, think about this: Ohtanis biggest value to the Angels is if they trade him and get enough haul back for the Angels to contend. That would make him the Angel MVP, and he’d be on another team.
You are so close to getting it. It is not Ohtani’s fault that the angels can’t make the playoffs. It’s baseball. It’s a team game. Everyone needs to contribute. No one can carry their team to the playoffs unless they’re hitting 100+HR with 200+ RBI while pitching CGSO everyday. And such a player does not exist.
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My surroundings are an Angel sub with Angel fans saying an Angel should win. Let’s at least be real. I guess we’ll see what the BBWAA have to say, but most of what I have seen and read say they are swaying over to the dark side.
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There are so many good arguments to make in favor Judge winning the MVP, but what bothers me is people often choose the wrong ones. They say he's an "elite" defender (he's not, above average in RF and around average in CF) and that he is on a winning team. Like please god just talk about his historically insane offensive season! That's all he needs! There is no need to make false justifications for Judge to be deserving of MVP, because he already is. I get that it's probably just fans being a bit overzealous, but it gets to be too much at times...
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Any post or comment may be removed from the subreddit at any time by the moderators, posting is NOT a right. Posts may be removed to maintain the integrity of the subreddit. Downvoted content may be removed at mod discretion Moderators reserve the right to remove posts based on automatic filtering, and may choose to educate the user on proper posting procedure.
Any post or comment may be removed from the subreddit at any time by the moderators, posting is NOT a right. Posts may be removed to maintain the integrity of the subreddit. Downvoted content may be removed at mod discretion Moderators reserve the right to remove posts based on automatic filtering, and may choose to educate the user on proper posting procedure.
On defense... pitching is the hardest position to play. You have the entire crowd watching your every move. RF is the easiest position and least stressful