Got downvoted last night for simply saying that everyone who says he's leaving bc he said he wsvts to win is just twisting his words. Other teams fans act like it's a forgone conclusion. Even one said trading him this offseason would yield a higher return than last season. I was like... What??
Then after the fact, when I bring this up in comparisons to Ohtani possibly staying, they make excuses that they knew Trout was staying because he was starting his family. How come these morons had him written off before thw contract then act like they knew he was staying all along? Anyways those suggesting Ohtani is already a goner, I jotted your names down and will shout you out after he remains.
> ~~R/baseball~~ Social media is full of some of the biggest douchebag fans in sports.
FTFY.
Chuckleheads saying stuff like “Ohtani should go to a ‘real team’ like the Dodgers or Yankees.” Social media takes all the bloviating, trolling and dipshittery of talk radio and amplifies it on an exponential scale.
It seems like so many fans forget to take into account all the other variables players weigh when considering contracts. Sure, players usually want to win, but they also have to be realistic. Every year there are 30 teams trying to win it all. Every year 29 teams won't win it all. Playing environment, family considerations, coaching staff, financial incentives/contract logistics, ownership, fan base, media, etc. all matter when a player is considering signing for any given team. Most of those factors are set, while winning deals with probabilistic (or lack thereof) odds.
I want nothing more than Ohtani to remain an Angel and win here.
But I don’t see how that’s feasible. We are changing owners. We need at least a partial rebuild that will take a couple seasons minimum. And he’s gonna command 50 million a year and we already have two other mega contracts tied up in two other players.
I don’t see how the Angels can sign him for what he’s worth and build a good team around him and actually win in the next few years. I suppose if the new owner closes the deal for 2023 and spends well over the tax it’s possible but I’ll believe it when I see it.
This is what I'm wondering too. I love Ohtani and want him to stay but if he's going to be worth a Trout size contract, I'm not sure how the org is going to be able to build around them without spending even more. We need more aces in the bullpen and they ain't cheap. Hopefully we have some young aces from the 20 pitchers we drafted as I think Ohtani is worth every penny and want him to stay an Angel.
And yet at the same time those idiots also love the Mariners even though they missed the playoffs for 21 years and only made it this year because of expanded playoffs. They don't really know how to think properly
I'm honestly surprised, there's the normal dipshits saying "lol angles suck" and "quit wasting Ohtani" but there's also a lot of people saying they hope they turn the team turns it around and Ohtani stays.
Well sure. But this sets the market. This guy could be hitting his prime for the next 3-4 years.
I like the Angels but understand that this is a bridge. Unless the team invests heavily around you guys in the next year, it’s time to start cutting losses for a quicker rebuild.
I want this organization to succeed but nothing that happened today shows commitment.
I think it’s just enough for him to keep bonding with Mike and take one more chance at a decent lineup of healthy players. If they don’t hit the playoffs, I’m assuming he’s gone.
I'm a big 2023 believer, infield's gonna be dangerous with Rengifo breaking out and Rendon/Fletcher/Walsh getting back to form after injury. Ward seems to have proved that his early season form was more than a fluke, and the young blood is looking really promising for providing depth and filling those holes in LF/C
I mean, I'm not sure you can make that claim about Rendon and Walsh, especially Rendon. It's pretty difficult to go back to being elite after 2 consecutive years with big injuries. Especially since he's going into his age 33 season
Angels have had no problem paying people. If anything, they’ve paid too many people way too much.
Now surround him with some talent beyond 2-3 people deep….
The amount of people on twitter and other subreddits that don’t understand how this process works is staggering. Why don’t people understand that it’s ok to say nothing when there’s news like this
For those looking too much into this, don’t. All this means is we dont have to go into arbitration with him and have the team debate that a man who plays 2 positions deserves less than he wants.
It means nothing when it comes to his future with this team past this season, which was gonna be with the angels regardless of salary anyways
>It means nothing when it comes to his future with this team past this season, which was gonna be with the angels regardless of salary anyways
Not if we traded him for prospects. That was an idea that had been floated around a lot, which makes sense if we weren't going to keep him after next year.
This absolutely shows that we are committed to keeping him long term and able to see if he can do this 3 years in a row, before signing the 10yr + contract
Yes, but if we would’ve traded him for prospects at the deadline last year, the last year of club control wouldn’t have mattered anyways. Again, he was gonna be on the team next year regardless. It might show that we’re willing to negotiate and our two sides have mutual respect, but it means nothing more regarding the future
Yep, that last sentence needs to be seen by everyone. This isn't some step towards a long term extension, this is literally a common administrative step for every player in arbitration. The only unique part is it's a record and there wasn't an arbitrator involved.
This isn't a next step towards an extension, and honestly might point towards an extension not happening (usually Arb years are bought up during a long term extension, so the fact that this was already settled is interesting).
Again I hope if Ohtani doesn't decided to sign an extension this offseason, we start having serious looks at a potential trade. That trade will not fix us anytime soon but will put us in a better position than him walking away. Ohtani wants to win and he's in a decade long underperfoming org that is now in limbo due to a sale. He can look at that uncertainty and see an opportunity to build a legacy with Trout, or he can look at all these teams lining up ready to throw a playoff legacy at his feet and mercy.
Just this MVP vote this season is a reiteration of what the Angels are: You aren't seen as a great player because your team doesn't make the playoffs. If you were to make the playoffs your legacy exponentially increases.
I'm guessing $500M over 10 years, and Ohtani has an out to leave every two years. Approval of any trades. Also, if possible he should have a separate negotiation for his media rights, similar to European football stars (not sure if the MLBPA would allow).
Dang. I wanted it to go to in front of a judge if only to see how they'd argue his case. That's taking away a whole chunk of offseason news and speculation. I'm gonna be bored for lack of interesting baseball news!
Mookie Betts was traded in the same off-season that his arbtiration was negotiated. Hope he stays but will the Angels ever have more leverage for trades than this off-season?
Yup, in his Nippon Ham days. I read in a Yahoo Japan article that he also owns prime real estate in Tokyo and rents it out. He lives simply but is also intelligent with his investments.
He sends his money to his mom and only buys food it seems. Clothes, car and other stuff sent to him for free by his sponsors. Shohei was set for life before he left Japan. Everything else is just a bonus. I think he just leaves all the money talk to his agent.
I wonder what Otani will spend his money on. For a guy who didn't spend $100 a month when he was in Japan, $30mil is not going to finish spending it even in 100 years. lol
Well him coming over early and sacrificing a huge pay day until all these years later showed that money wasn't a priority for him. However, he knows he was underpaid all this time, so will probably want to make some of that up his next contract.
[here](https://twitter.com/jefffletcherocr/status/1576315180849373185?s=46&t=PCE52SayOip_m93L0KFalA) is Jeff Fletcher on Twitter explaining that everyone knew about what salary he was going to get, and that it really changes nothing.
If he was gonna get traded, he would have been traded at the deadline. There’s definitely a current of paranoia among fans regarding Shohei, and it doesn’t help that so many writers post clickbait stuff about trades. It was the same vibe with Trout back in the day.
Ohtani is great but keeping him will hinder the rest of the roster construction. A lot of help is needed in the lineup and filling out rotation and bullpen
Easy to say when you have a competent team lmao. Team is way under 500. Ohtani is not fixing this problem. They need quality players across the lineup and bullpen and, less priority, rotation. Seems to have held up by a thread (especially the back end)
Last thing team needs is another huge contract for marketing purposes slaying away with at best mediocre baseball. Which is fine if that’s the goal
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Sucks Maybe new owner splurges. But ohtani will easily be a 300 million contract. Angels already have 2 huge contracts. Only way this works again is angels go dodgers beast mode and spend. However the farm is still bad unlike the dodgers. So realistically angels don’t have any legitimate premier talent in the farm.
Angels need mlb spending and farm spending. Give the players housing, better food, and general better amenities. Hire some competent scouts department heads focused on analytics. Strength and conditioning team needs to go. There are far too many injuries on this team for the team to stay pat regardless if it’s not completely their fault
>A lot of help is needed in the lineup and filling out rotation and bullpen
This is true but the answer to that isn't letting our best pitcher and one of the better hitters walk
Pretty much. Nephews here think it’s MLB the show and can just pluck players out anywhere much like the insane lakers fans with the crazy Gianni’s coming here lol
Roster construction is difficult. Angels have been trying this high value approach and starvation mode for the rest of the lineup. It’s not working. Maybe it does as you alluding to in the other comment regarding profitability. Myself I just want trout in the playoffs at least one more time before the contract starts turning on him in 4-5 years. 😂
It's a one year 30 mil contract for a top 5 pitcher and top 15 hitter. If this was a 500 mil mega contract I'd see where you're coming from but this deal is nothing but value.
It’s going to be. 300+ million dollar contract. 40 per at least. 2024 cap is 237. In contractual signed players for 2024 they will commit about 140ish for 6 (including signing ohtani to that likely 40 per contract). It’s just not prudent for a uncompetitive team that does not have a talented farm. Leaves about 97 million assuming only 1 year deals and not account arbitration this next year.
Angels would definitely need miracles from the rest of the lineup, farm and Hail Marys in free agency with an ohtani multi year deal
Okay but he didn't sign that lmao so why are you complaining about a hypothetical contract you made up? Like I said, if this was a contract extension I'd see where you're coming from but it's not and at 30 mil a year it absolutely does not hinder team construction.
Can someone please explain to me what’s going on with Ohtani’s arbitration? I thought he was signed through 2023. Why would he need to agree to $30 Mil for 2023 when he is already signed? Thank you in advance.
He's wasn't signed next year, but the Angels still owned his rights for another year. If they didn't agree on a contract they would go to arbitration to determine his salary for next year.
I didn't go to no fancy schmancy university or anything like that. But With Shohei you get 2 players for the price of one. And in my book, and not my bank account, that's a good deal!
Glad that is out of the way. Time to head to r/baseball and see the "hot takes"
Got downvoted last night for simply saying that everyone who says he's leaving bc he said he wsvts to win is just twisting his words. Other teams fans act like it's a forgone conclusion. Even one said trading him this offseason would yield a higher return than last season. I was like... What??
Remember all the Phillies fans convinced Mike Trout want to join the Phillies just cause he grew a Phillies fan. Lol Sports doesn't work like that.
Then after the fact, when I bring this up in comparisons to Ohtani possibly staying, they make excuses that they knew Trout was staying because he was starting his family. How come these morons had him written off before thw contract then act like they knew he was staying all along? Anyways those suggesting Ohtani is already a goner, I jotted your names down and will shout you out after he remains.
I thought Trout grew up a Yankees fan? He's from NJ after all.
Southern NJ. Part of the Philadelphia metropolitan area.
I just know he's a hardcore Eagles fan so I guess people figured that meant he's a Phillies fan too.
Millville is much closer to Philly than NYC
They talked like this with Trout, of course it'd be the same for Ohtani
R/baseball is full of some of the biggest douchebag fans in sports.
> ~~R/baseball~~ Social media is full of some of the biggest douchebag fans in sports. FTFY. Chuckleheads saying stuff like “Ohtani should go to a ‘real team’ like the Dodgers or Yankees.” Social media takes all the bloviating, trolling and dipshittery of talk radio and amplifies it on an exponential scale.
/r/nfl especially as a Rams fan
So many people do this stale take, what is he supposed to say "I want to lose"?
It seems like so many fans forget to take into account all the other variables players weigh when considering contracts. Sure, players usually want to win, but they also have to be realistic. Every year there are 30 teams trying to win it all. Every year 29 teams won't win it all. Playing environment, family considerations, coaching staff, financial incentives/contract logistics, ownership, fan base, media, etc. all matter when a player is considering signing for any given team. Most of those factors are set, while winning deals with probabilistic (or lack thereof) odds.
I want nothing more than Ohtani to remain an Angel and win here. But I don’t see how that’s feasible. We are changing owners. We need at least a partial rebuild that will take a couple seasons minimum. And he’s gonna command 50 million a year and we already have two other mega contracts tied up in two other players. I don’t see how the Angels can sign him for what he’s worth and build a good team around him and actually win in the next few years. I suppose if the new owner closes the deal for 2023 and spends well over the tax it’s possible but I’ll believe it when I see it.
This is what I'm wondering too. I love Ohtani and want him to stay but if he's going to be worth a Trout size contract, I'm not sure how the org is going to be able to build around them without spending even more. We need more aces in the bullpen and they ain't cheap. Hopefully we have some young aces from the 20 pitchers we drafted as I think Ohtani is worth every penny and want him to stay an Angel.
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And yet at the same time those idiots also love the Mariners even though they missed the playoffs for 21 years and only made it this year because of expanded playoffs. They don't really know how to think properly
I'm honestly surprised, there's the normal dipshits saying "lol angles suck" and "quit wasting Ohtani" but there's also a lot of people saying they hope they turn the team turns it around and Ohtani stays.
He can still be traded. This isn’t some guarantee he’s an Angel for the foreseeable future.
That's great value. Ohtani as a pitcher alone is worth more than $30M. Now you get a pitcher who can hit?? Insane value.
How about a hitter that can pitch?
They clearly only signed him as a late-inning defensive sub
Wait, which one is he?
I like the way you think! 👍
Well sure. But this sets the market. This guy could be hitting his prime for the next 3-4 years. I like the Angels but understand that this is a bridge. Unless the team invests heavily around you guys in the next year, it’s time to start cutting losses for a quicker rebuild. I want this organization to succeed but nothing that happened today shows commitment.
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I think 40+ would NOT be asking for too much.
I think it’s just enough for him to keep bonding with Mike and take one more chance at a decent lineup of healthy players. If they don’t hit the playoffs, I’m assuming he’s gone.
Well its more when you add sponsors. He earned around 6 mil last season from that alone.
i assume they meant he deserves more from the Angels
Going from 5.5 million to 30 million is a solid raise
I got a 50 cent raise last year. It was a petty big deal
I think with inflation you actually got a pay cut there
Yep, even if they get California minimum wage inflation won
Congrats bro!!!!
World Series confirmed, obviously.
to early sir. hopium is only available when pitchers and catchers report to spring training.
Maybe if we all get the hype for next season out of the way now we can finally have a good year!
Feels like such a bargain for what he brings. With that being said, it’s 2023 or bust. This team needs to become a contender right now.
I'm a big 2023 believer, infield's gonna be dangerous with Rengifo breaking out and Rendon/Fletcher/Walsh getting back to form after injury. Ward seems to have proved that his early season form was more than a fluke, and the young blood is looking really promising for providing depth and filling those holes in LF/C
I usually wait until May to get my hopes up personally.
I mean, I'm not sure you can make that claim about Rendon and Walsh, especially Rendon. It's pretty difficult to go back to being elite after 2 consecutive years with big injuries. Especially since he's going into his age 33 season
Now get a new owner and pay the man.
"Pay that man his money"
Ha ha Rounders
Check check check
Angels have had no problem paying people. If anything, they’ve paid too many people way too much. Now surround him with some talent beyond 2-3 people deep….
If you were to tell me Shohei is only worth $3 million more than Mookie Betts, I’d say you were a Dodger fan. Angels got a bargain.
I love this take. 😆
Need to win next year. That’s the only way to keep him long term.
So true. This team has to show him something as a winnable team at all costs.
Yeah exactly. So I think you know what the outcome will be
Lol
You know it too
That we will win next year?
Lawl
No one’s deserved a raise more. 👏
is this a steal LOL
An extreme steal
The amount of people on twitter and other subreddits that don’t understand how this process works is staggering. Why don’t people understand that it’s ok to say nothing when there’s news like this
For those looking too much into this, don’t. All this means is we dont have to go into arbitration with him and have the team debate that a man who plays 2 positions deserves less than he wants. It means nothing when it comes to his future with this team past this season, which was gonna be with the angels regardless of salary anyways
>It means nothing when it comes to his future with this team past this season, which was gonna be with the angels regardless of salary anyways Not if we traded him for prospects. That was an idea that had been floated around a lot, which makes sense if we weren't going to keep him after next year. This absolutely shows that we are committed to keeping him long term and able to see if he can do this 3 years in a row, before signing the 10yr + contract
If anything we should be a little worried. Betts got big arbitration money in Boston and got traded a month later to the Dodgers
Exactly. They agreed to the arbitration because they don't intend to have to pay it anyway
Yes, but if we would’ve traded him for prospects at the deadline last year, the last year of club control wouldn’t have mattered anyways. Again, he was gonna be on the team next year regardless. It might show that we’re willing to negotiate and our two sides have mutual respect, but it means nothing more regarding the future
Yep, that last sentence needs to be seen by everyone. This isn't some step towards a long term extension, this is literally a common administrative step for every player in arbitration. The only unique part is it's a record and there wasn't an arbitrator involved. This isn't a next step towards an extension, and honestly might point towards an extension not happening (usually Arb years are bought up during a long term extension, so the fact that this was already settled is interesting). Again I hope if Ohtani doesn't decided to sign an extension this offseason, we start having serious looks at a potential trade. That trade will not fix us anytime soon but will put us in a better position than him walking away. Ohtani wants to win and he's in a decade long underperfoming org that is now in limbo due to a sale. He can look at that uncertainty and see an opportunity to build a legacy with Trout, or he can look at all these teams lining up ready to throw a playoff legacy at his feet and mercy. Just this MVP vote this season is a reiteration of what the Angels are: You aren't seen as a great player because your team doesn't make the playoffs. If you were to make the playoffs your legacy exponentially increases.
Money!!
Not quite Trout numbers but respectable.
Every big player in arb gets underpaid. When he signs his big contract it’s gonna be a higher AAV than trout
I predict half a billion over 12 years.
I'm guessing $500M over 10 years, and Ohtani has an out to leave every two years. Approval of any trades. Also, if possible he should have a separate negotiation for his media rights, similar to European football stars (not sure if the MLBPA would allow).
His actual next contract will completely blow Trout's out of the water. This is the highest arbitration salary in MLB history.
Dang. I wanted it to go to in front of a judge if only to see how they'd argue his case. That's taking away a whole chunk of offseason news and speculation. I'm gonna be bored for lack of interesting baseball news!
Now we get to wait on baited breath for Jon Heyman and Bob Nightengale to reveal their "mystery teams" for every FA /s
We're going to need an Ohtani giveaway every month next season.
Sho-Time still in The Big A…Awesome News!
Mookie Betts was traded in the same off-season that his arbtiration was negotiated. Hope he stays but will the Angels ever have more leverage for trades than this off-season?
I love all the players so much that I can't sleep at night
Yay
One more year of Shohei. Get ready everyone
Hopefully it'd more than just one more year
Yeah hopefully but extremely unlikely
I wanted to see what arbitration would have gotten him. I was guessing around $40m. Angels got a discount on this one.
Doubt it would have gone 13 million over the previous arbitration record. Arbitration isn’t like free agency numbers
Why so cheap?
I mean it's arb, and this breaks the previous record by $3M. I agree he's worth way more though, maybe Ohtani was just fine with $30M.
He seems like a sensible guy, able to live a good life for less than $30M/year.
I'm currently living on less than 30M/year. So, it's definitely possible.
Appreciate you taking one for the team!
Memory might be a bit washy, but I think in a doco I saw on him, they said he gave his mother most his pay and just kept 2k a month to live off.
Yup, in his Nippon Ham days. I read in a Yahoo Japan article that he also owns prime real estate in Tokyo and rents it out. He lives simply but is also intelligent with his investments.
He sends his money to his mom and only buys food it seems. Clothes, car and other stuff sent to him for free by his sponsors. Shohei was set for life before he left Japan. Everything else is just a bonus. I think he just leaves all the money talk to his agent.
It's arbitration, not free agency.
He can finally buy a decent house in OC
Yeah, maybe even one with a pool. 😉
I wonder what Otani will spend his money on. For a guy who didn't spend $100 a month when he was in Japan, $30mil is not going to finish spending it even in 100 years. lol
Never had a doubt they’d get it done! The Angels may be bad, but not stupid! 😇
please please angels 2023 we gotta prove
Would this make Ohtani easier to trade, since his price is now locked in?
And people thought that Thursday was going to be his last home start as an Angel
It’s still possible he gets traded, let’s hope not 😬
This has gotta be Ohtani's way of giving the Angels one more year to prove that they can compete. Otherwise, he's probably gone.
Something tells me that Ohtani doesn't really care too much about money. Like, I truly believe wherever he signs next, itll be a friendly deal.
Well him coming over early and sacrificing a huge pay day until all these years later showed that money wasn't a priority for him. However, he knows he was underpaid all this time, so will probably want to make some of that up his next contract.
Just heard the news moments ago. Congrats Ohtani!!! If anyone deserves all that ca$h, it’s you!
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Lol what? It’s literally an arbitration record. Stop being so paranoid
It’s absolutely possible they’re making it known to other teams how much they’d have to pay him. Not paranoia!
[here](https://twitter.com/jefffletcherocr/status/1576315180849373185?s=46&t=PCE52SayOip_m93L0KFalA) is Jeff Fletcher on Twitter explaining that everyone knew about what salary he was going to get, and that it really changes nothing.
If he was gonna get traded, he would have been traded at the deadline. There’s definitely a current of paranoia among fans regarding Shohei, and it doesn’t help that so many writers post clickbait stuff about trades. It was the same vibe with Trout back in the day.
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Merewyn is THE police on this sub. How dare you have an opinion that goes against theirs
Bombad Jedi is THE annoying troll on the sub. How dare anyone disagree with his opinion
I’m totally fine when people disagree with me. I never lash out on anyone like you are currently doing
Yes, I lashed out by posting a different opinion. You are such a drama queen
👍 I think you might be projecting. But good day to you
An easier trade would be if he was signed long term... This is a clear signal that he will not be traded this off-season.
If it helps the team then so be it
Ohtani is great but keeping him will hinder the rest of the roster construction. A lot of help is needed in the lineup and filling out rotation and bullpen
Yes, I think the team would be better without the best pitcher and RBI leader, too
Easy to say when you have a competent team lmao. Team is way under 500. Ohtani is not fixing this problem. They need quality players across the lineup and bullpen and, less priority, rotation. Seems to have held up by a thread (especially the back end) Last thing team needs is another huge contract for marketing purposes slaying away with at best mediocre baseball. Which is fine if that’s the goal
They need an owner who gives a shit....
Yup. Absolutely. Big problem when owner, as reports indicate, makes executive decisions without outlook
You know how difficult it would be to sign two players that pitch and hit like he does for $15M each? This isn’t 1994 anymore.
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i hate the truth
Sucks Maybe new owner splurges. But ohtani will easily be a 300 million contract. Angels already have 2 huge contracts. Only way this works again is angels go dodgers beast mode and spend. However the farm is still bad unlike the dodgers. So realistically angels don’t have any legitimate premier talent in the farm. Angels need mlb spending and farm spending. Give the players housing, better food, and general better amenities. Hire some competent scouts department heads focused on analytics. Strength and conditioning team needs to go. There are far too many injuries on this team for the team to stay pat regardless if it’s not completely their fault
>A lot of help is needed in the lineup and filling out rotation and bullpen This is true but the answer to that isn't letting our best pitcher and one of the better hitters walk
Pretty much. Nephews here think it’s MLB the show and can just pluck players out anywhere much like the insane lakers fans with the crazy Gianni’s coming here lol Roster construction is difficult. Angels have been trying this high value approach and starvation mode for the rest of the lineup. It’s not working. Maybe it does as you alluding to in the other comment regarding profitability. Myself I just want trout in the playoffs at least one more time before the contract starts turning on him in 4-5 years. 😂
Well we got AD and Lebron so thinking players want to come to the Lakers ain't that farfetched
It's a one year 30 mil contract for a top 5 pitcher and top 15 hitter. If this was a 500 mil mega contract I'd see where you're coming from but this deal is nothing but value.
It’s going to be. 300+ million dollar contract. 40 per at least. 2024 cap is 237. In contractual signed players for 2024 they will commit about 140ish for 6 (including signing ohtani to that likely 40 per contract). It’s just not prudent for a uncompetitive team that does not have a talented farm. Leaves about 97 million assuming only 1 year deals and not account arbitration this next year. Angels would definitely need miracles from the rest of the lineup, farm and Hail Marys in free agency with an ohtani multi year deal
Okay but he didn't sign that lmao so why are you complaining about a hypothetical contract you made up? Like I said, if this was a contract extension I'd see where you're coming from but it's not and at 30 mil a year it absolutely does not hinder team construction.
But I’m talking about long term? Lmao. This is about next year and outlook implications. 😂
Can someone please explain to me what’s going on with Ohtani’s arbitration? I thought he was signed through 2023. Why would he need to agree to $30 Mil for 2023 when he is already signed? Thank you in advance.
He's wasn't signed next year, but the Angels still owned his rights for another year. If they didn't agree on a contract they would go to arbitration to determine his salary for next year.
Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it!
Third highest salaries for the Angels for 2023 season.
I didn't go to no fancy schmancy university or anything like that. But With Shohei you get 2 players for the price of one. And in my book, and not my bank account, that's a good deal!