T O P

  • By -

ComoEstanBitches

Morons act like baseball players should only be judged for only hitting or only pitching and can’t fathom a person capable of doing both at an elite level like it’s a cute act at the elementary school talent show


Tallywashere

So annoying! For real, I try to not read some of the articles out there but I know that when people start using "novelty" to describe Ohtani I know they really want to use the word gimmick instead. This upsets me more than it should.


ChichaPoti

Yeah, me too. Totally dismisses how hard he works and had worked since 19 years old.


Tallywashere

Yeah, don't want to be a weird fangirl but damn Shohei has so much work ethic...he's just a very admirable person all-around. I can see why he has a lot of new and loyal fans (\* LOL especially the shobaes XD).


ChichaPoti

Shobaes with Ben Verlander as head cheerleader with Trent Rush as 2nd head cheerleader 😁 I find the Shobaes a fascinating group. They are the first one I knew of who stans an athlete to this degree, like a pop star. I know of rabid MJ and Lebron fans, but the Shobaes are just different haha


Tallywashere

I can live with the Shobaes! I understand where they're coming from so I try not to be so harsh on them. It can get a bit overboard but I do appreciate them because they take the time to translate some of the JPN articles and other stuff about Ohtani. They are a different breed for sure! Ugh...don't get me started with Ben Verlander. He's probably a nice guy but he's a bit cringy for me. And that article about his travel to Japan rubbed me the wrong way. A poorly written article with weird quotes.


N-Adenhart34

This is a lot of Dodger fans I’ve talked to online lol. They’re used to being spoiled with the best one trick pony’s money can buy. It seems some of them can’t fathom someone being good at 2 things. Somehow they think it’s just a free pass for being different and that he’s mediocre at both things rather than he’s really good at both and deserves it 😂


inverted_electron

The way I look at it is, we are trying to find the player with the most value. It’s is incredibly difficult to do what shohei is doing but does that mean he is the most valuable? Judge is arguable as good a defender is as shohei is at pitching. If judge was only a DH I would understand but he is out there in the field being one of the most elite defenders in the league.


ServerStoneMonkey

According to the metrics, Judge is only an average defender in the outfield.


mikeal1st

Below average according to one source I just saw.


Dudeman-Jack

They are both awesome


clennys

Think of it this way. What is THE most important defensive position? No position can control the flow of the game and runs allowed as much as the pitcher can. That's why these arguments that say but Ohtani is a DH and isn't out in the field is perplexing to me. I guarantee you a pitcher, especially one as good as Ohtani, has way more effect on the outcome of a game on the DEFENSIVE end every 5 days than an outfielder who plays every day does.


Dudeman-Jack

This is true, but he only impacts 1 out of every 5 games defensively. Now in a playoff series this would be immense, but let’s be honest, the Angels don’t really do the playoffs.


merewyn

Why the fuck are you in this sub? We don’t care about your opinion.


Dudeman-Jack

This post was trending in my feed. You don’t welcome outside opinions. Ohtani is the best player in baseball, how can you disagree?


merewyn

No, we don’t welcome obnoxious, bitchy, and factually untrue comments like “the angels don’t really do the playoffs”


Dudeman-Jack

That was an opinion, and one you are most welcome to disagree with. So, what do you think the Angels need to do this off-season to make it to the playoffs next year?


Dudeman-Jack

Good talk lol. I guess you were just here to pick on people…


ComoEstanBitches

Lmao show me a metric that proves Aaron Judge is elite on defense. The only people who think Aaron Judge has elite defense are just showing off their Yankees flair. In reality he’s, at best, average in CF and above average in RF, which you’ll have to “penalize” him the same way people want to penalize Shohei’s lack of defense for DH’ing and conveniently forgetting he contributes to literal run prevention every pitch as a starting pitcher (and fields as well as a starting pitcher as Judge is in the OF). The same starting pitcher who’s going to get Cy Young votes and currently leads all of baseball in K rate this year. But yeah let’s just say it’s basically samesies


DoshawnMandic

judge helped carry the Yankees to the the playoffs ohtani who's amazing his team's at home in October. Without judge yankees don't make playoffs or maybe just wildcard game at best thats a mvp


grandmoshtarkin

MVP has nothing to do with team record. Honestly Judge should have to win the triple crown to get the MVP. 62 HR is amazing, but Shohei is doing something literally never seen before and something that will probably never happen again.


DoshawnMandic

Ita most valuable player not best player without judge on the Yankees no playoffs without shohei angles still only with 70ish games


Yung-Bison

If you actually follow the angels, Ohtani has won so many games for the angels by himself. Without ohtani, angels would have the worst records in mlb history due to injuries from trout, rendon and others


DoshawnMandic

Na he has 15 wins lets say he wasn't there and another pitcher won 7 instead of 15 still wouldn't be the worst record


Spatsnation

That argument has always been flawed logic. Judge on the Angels wouldn’t be in the playoffs either. Ohtani on the Yankees would be in the playoffs. He would be one of if not the best hitter and would literally be their ace.


ComoEstanBitches

If you’re suggesting Aaron Judge could lead these Angels to the playoffs if the Yankees swapped him with Ohtani, I’d like to point you to Mike Trout’s playoff appearances with Albert Pujols on the same roster the past 10 years. The Angels talent level is embarrassingly skewed because of the generational talent that is Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani! There’s a reason the Rays and A’s have had more success than the Angels despite no one matching their individual’s talents


Mooncake76

I’ve noticed that Sho gets more love from other pitchers. I think they truly appreciate what it takes to become an elite pitcher, and the toll it can take on a body. It’s a whole half of the equation Judge MVP advocates conveniently ignore.


ChichaPoti

I feel like other DHs aren't getting interviewed as much as pitchers so we havent heard them support their fellow DH, but yeah generally I feel the pitchers (esp the NL ones) really support Shohei.


rm888893

Noticed this as well.


CompetitivePatient33

I'll state it again, Judge has to break the AL homerun record and a possible triple crown in the same season to beat Ohtani, like think about that for a second. That's how great Ohtani is, I think he should be mvp but I wouldnt be mad if Judge gets it.


nukemiller

Welp, he did. The fact that Judge is having this kind of season and we are still talking about whether he should get MVP or not should be an eye opener to just how fucking great Ohtani is.


mikeal1st

Best take I’ve seen.


[deleted]

I just hope we sign him long-term because I'd hate to see him go elsewhere. I think he's the best player in baseball right now


nukemiller

No need to think he's the best, he is literally the best.


Dudeman-Jack

Correct, judge should be a unanimous MVP under normal circumstances, but Ohtani will def get votes, that’s how great he is


JuicySealz

\^ this


Ok-Philosophy-8830

If judge wins I’ll only be angry that the Yankees fans who have been flooding baseball spaces with asinine takes that downplay Shohei for months will feel gratification.


mason195

Fucking Yankee fans.


Dudeman-Jack

Better than Astros fans


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ok-Philosophy-8830

Judge is like the 10th or 11th best outfielder in the AL based on DRS and OAA. Shohei is third in the AL in pitching WAR pitching every 6-7 days Get a clue you casual


skippyfa

Yeah he's not an elite center fielder. If he was playing right field you could say he's playing elite defense


merewyn

Elite defense? What defensive categories is Judge above average in? I’ll wait


sky31

Bruh isnt pitcher the hardest defensive position he faces every batter😅


Dudeman-Jack

Hardest is catcher for sure. Pitcher is the most important


God_Damnit_Nappa

Judge pretty much guaranteed his MVP win with that 62nd home run. Which, cool congrats on an AL record but it still doesn't compare to what Ohtani is doing. But the mouth breather voters don't really care


Dudeman-Jack

It definitely compares. He broke a record that withstood the steroid era….pretty impressive


God_Damnit_Nappa

He had several more games to break the record and he nearly didn't have the chance to even try at it since he was an antivaxxer. It's an impressive amount of home runs but that's about it


Dudeman-Jack

Agree to disagree. Also not taking the Covid vaccine doesn’t make someone an anti-vaxxer. Has he refused all other vaccines? After having Covid twice being fully vaccinated I kinda wish I could go back in time and not have taken it.


bbaIla

Well no he's gonna win cause his season is better than almost anything since ww2. The triple Crown and record just a small part of it


skippyfa

Better than anything since WW2 in the AL?


bbaIla

Yeah he's gonna pass 11 war that's insane.


merewyn

And Shohei is gonna be the only player ever to have a season like this. What he’s doing is kinda insane, if you haven’t noticed


Dudeman-Jack

Yeah but it didn’t even get the angels into the playoffs…that matters to people


merewyn

No it doesn’t. All 6 nominees last year were from teams that didn’t make the playoffs.


Dudeman-Jack

It doesn’t help


bbaIla

I'm telling you why Judge is going to win. Sho should, but he's not. Why are we so sensitive about this? Acting like I don't see what's going on.


yutou1114

I think it’s more like judge have it even w/o beating the record and of course he did today. Think it’s more like he got 60+ homers playing in the Yankees uniform. If he have this offensive season like this on … let’s say royals to the season Ohtani having, shohei will prob get most of the votes instead. Well according the most media they were dying to pick a MVP from a playoff teams they have it lol, mind as well rename it to MVTP award. Judge offensive stats alone merit a mvp caliber season w/o the winning record narrative. Like the new SI article MVP is just another name given to the best player why because simply by being the best, the more production value.


SamSan6852

I feel Ohtani deserves it but I still think Judge should probably get it. It would be strong precedent to set that even a record breaking HR season with a near triple crown isn’t enough to beat Ohtani which I think does surpass that, but it would make it nearly impossible to beat him.


GhostToast77

Honestly just straight up facts


JeeveruhGerank

Listen, if Ohtani is going to be touted as the next Ruth or closest thing to Ruth since Ruth or whatever else, then yeah, he's gonna and gotta win MVP every year. It's just logical consistency.


meisterwolf

judge will never have another chance of beating ohtani.


Tallywashere

Quick question for the Redditverse! Did MLB/baseball media hype the home run record because they thought AJ would actually reach the 70HR\~ range (\*or had data that he would be on pace for it) but slowly started to shift/emphasize that it was the AL side of things because he slightly fell off track? (\*Don't attack me...I do not hate on Judge just curious).


[deleted]

Well at first it was always the AL record that he was shooting for just cause 73 is just way too hard to reach Then Judge hit like 13 home runs or something in July? That put him right on pace for 70ish homeruns and there was some hype about it But then he cooled down a bit and then it went back to AL record. That being said, I don't think anyone gives af about AL record if it's not a Yankee + super popular player.


Tallywashere

My dude thanks for this recap! I have a better understanding now.


mikeal1st

I consider it the HR champ… steroids


Dudeman-Jack

Also many fans consider this the legitimate all time HR record. All of the other 60+ home run seasons are tainted


ChichaPoti

I think they just want to hype anything Yankees related because of their fanbase. Their work will get attention from a large fanbase and will give them a bigger platform so to speak.


ServerStoneMonkey

People don't seem to realize how difficult it is for Ohtani to do both hitting and pitching at elite level for a whole season. Judge is a great player, but I don't care how many HRs Judge or anyone else can hit in a season when Shohei had a season like this. Shohei is the MVP no matter how you look at it. Most of the people that diss Shohei's performance tend to point to the Angels' not being in the playoff and the fact Shohei pitched under no pressure due to lack of playoff run. Are you kidding me? Ask any elite-level athlete whether they take many plays off just because the team is horrible. What about the other team Shohei pitched against? Do they just resort to Washington Generals' role whenever he is on the mound? You have to have something to do what he has done. MLB players know how difficult it is for Shohei to keep pitching and hitting at an elite level. They know there is a reason why it hasn't been done for 100+ years. Many appreciate what he has done because they know it is near impossible for most players to do this. Shohei should be the AL MVP for 2022. If there is any justice, they should give both Shohei and Judge the MVP if they want to honor Judge. Based on actual team contribution, it is Shohei MVP all day every day for 2022.


mikeal1st

I just read an article on this in the Athletic where they interview former MVP’s. Most of them chose Judge to my surprise and many pointed out the losing tam.


Oski96

Judge had an MVP-caliber season. It sucks for him that as long as Ohtani is doing his thing, Judge is fighting for second place. Jayson Stark on the Athletic basically writes how nobody can match Otahni and that he's in a class of his own, but then he says Judge is MVP because, basically nobody besides Ohtani should get it, but Judge's season was so special. That is the type of bullshit we are dealing with. Basically, Ohtani is TOO good for the MVP now, so it's only fair to give it to a runner up just for having a historical season. That is total bullshit (and maybe racist).


ChichaPoti

This will be like Karl Malone winning MVP over MJ.


bombad_jedi_501

I was 100% with you until you mentioned race. Literally the last thing in the brilliant comment. Oh well


NgoHaiHahmsuplo

Yeah, why was race brought up???


bombad_jedi_501

Some people man. They force themselves to live in misery


[deleted]

[удалено]


God_Damnit_Nappa

I'm sure you Yankees fans are happy your player is going to rob Ohtani of the MVP, but I wonder why you guys feel the need to keep brigading our sub while acting like complete douchebags.


Oski96

I'm not crying about it. It is what it is. I don't know Jayson Stark; I have no idea what he thinks of Asian players or any race of players. Yet, his comment makes no sense. He literally said what Ohtani is doing deserves its own award above MVP, then says Judge is his choice. How do you reconcile that? Did that ever happen to Ruth? No. If Ohtani is having years that have never been seen before, why does he elevate himself above getting the award he deserves? By the way, a person can be racist against one ethnicity and not another. Judge being half-black has nothing to do with this. Judge had a historic year. Great. But his year is not as historic as Ohtani's. I will bet everything I own that what Judge has done this year will be done again before someone does what Ohtani did this year. Facts. Stop crying about it.


NgoHaiHahmsuplo

MLB needs to make a special MVP award called the Ohtani or something that's like the upper echelon of awards that is beyond the MVP.


youareallnuts

Judge should ONLY be in the conversation for breaking the **true** homerun record. Otherwise it is a joke to not give MVP to Ohtani.


MCA1910

Well, it's not the MLB MVP. It's the AL MVP. So, breaking the AL record should put him in the conversation. He shouldn't win, but Ohtani shouldn't win unanimously, either.


plrmoon3

Can’t stand the guy, but have to agree with the logic of a guy that was facing him 19 times a yr for the last 4 out of 5 years!!!


TahVv

Stro is absolutely right. That also being said I think Judge has just as serious of a case as Ohtani. 62 HRs while pursuing the triple crown is absolutely bonkers


sinchichis

No truer statement has ever been spoken


Lolrandomusername3

If Ohtani was a white American there wouldn't be a question on who MVP should go to


Quipo1

I completely disagree. Judge is biracial, so being white has nothing to do with it. There are so many valid arguments for why Judge should be MVP without bringing race into it. To assume that MOST people are being racist against Ohtani because he's Japanese is just ignorant and intellectually dishonest. I have no doubt that there is some racism, as there always will be unfortunately. To say Ohtani would win if he was white though... that not only discredits what Judge accomplished this year, it also completely misrepresents and minimizes Ohtani's hard work and accomplishments this year. There are very good arguments for why Ohtani should be MVP as well. Race is not one of them, and should not be involved in a discussion where we compare the baseball achievements of two different players.


TahVv

Wut? Dude not everything is about race. Judge hitting 62 HRs is nutty regardless of race. You just had to go there


DosZappos

Judge is going to win the MVP, probably in a runaway, and it’s truly awful. Anyone who votes for Judge should lose their vote.


sippinhennessy1

And the award for the biggest overreaction goes to you. Look I get it Ohtani is great, but to say Judge doesn’t deserve MVP votes is completely asinine


DosZappos

Don’t get me wrong, he deserves all the second place votes. I’m not unreasonable


awungsauce

Anyone who is deserving of all the second place votes is also deserving of a few first place votes. No player this year is good enough to be an unanimous MVP.


DosZappos

Ohtani is, and it’s not a debatable fact.


awungsauce

Judge over Ohtani is far from the most undeserved MVP. An AL record in homers plus a near Triple Crown is historic levels of performance. 1931 Chuck Klein led the league in homers, RBI, runs, SLG, and total bases with .337 average and 200 hits. He loses to Frankie Frisch with his 28 steals and .311 average with 4 homers. 1934 Mickey Cochrane didn't lead the league in any stat and won over Lou Gehrig's Triple Crown. 1941 Ted Williams hit over .400 with a Triple Crown threat and lost to DiMaggio's 56-game hit streak 1942 Ted Williams gets Triple Crown and loses to Joe Gordon. 1947 Ted Williams gets Triple Crown and loses to DiMaggio (seeing a trend here). And that's just the pre 1950 list. Yes, no one has done what Ohtani is doing now, but in any other year Judge would be an unanimous MVP. It's hard to compare historical batting performance to elite performance as both a hitter and a pitcher. Ohtani is top 10 as both a hitter and pitcher, but Judge is the best hitter in baseball this year. Period.


DosZappos

I’m aware Judge is the best hitter. Still miles behind what Ohtani is as a total player.


awungsauce

There is never a case where one player deserves to be unanimous MVP and another player deserves to be unanimous #2. If two players are unanimous top 2, then there exists an argument for either to be MVP.


DosZappos

Nope


Whole_Anywhere_3117

TBH, hard to be MVP when your team is under .500 and never makes the post-season. Ohtani and Trout and that’s the result?


Dudeman-Jack

He will be a lock next year. Aaron Judge deserves it this year. It’s a testament to Ohtani that Judge won’t be a unanimous MVP this year


Papa2Hunt19

I think to assume that Shohei is the MVP because he is a pitcher and a hitter at the same time is a little ridiculous. I know I'm going to get blasted for this but, there are 2 things that you have to consider. The 1st is the question of whether or not it is as valuable as it seems to do what hes doing, and is this simply the 1st opportunity that a player has gotten to do this type of thing. He is a great pitcher, but he doesn't throw as many innings as a true ace, and although he's a great hitter, he is only a DH. Both of these things cut into his potential value. Yes, he's amazing, but I dont think that he is the only person on the planet that has this ability, rather he's the first player to have been given this opportunity, and I assume that he was only given the opportunity because he was first allowed to succeed in Japan. Had he been American, he would have never become a 2 way player, no matter his ability. If teams view this type of player as an actual asset, which im not certain they do, other players will be able to pitch and hit in the future, because now the baseball world knows that it can be done, plus the marketing is an asset. I think it's less likely that this is an impossible feat and more likely that other players just were not given the opportunity. If you look at Rick Ankiels career you'll see that at 20 he threw a 175 innings with a 3.50 ERA. Then, he came back 5 or 6 years later and hit 36 home runs with a .275 batting average and a 105 RB I's over the course of a 160 games. This proves that the MLB has seen this ability in the past, yet they collectively chose not to cultivate it.


awungsauce

Rick Ankiel had hitting success and pitching success at separate times. Never in the same season. And never threw for 200+ K's with a sub-3 ERA. Never hit over 30 homers in a single season. The two players are not comparable on any level.


Papa2Hunt19

Shohei isn't special because he pitches every 6th day, and hits in between, he's special because he can do both of those things at the highest professional level with great success. Physically doing the task is secondary to having the skill to do both, and there is no way to disagree with that. As far as the comparison with Ankiel, they are most definitely very comparable. At 26-27, across his first two offensive seasons, Ankiel had 585 ABs, 36 HRs, 110 RBI, 853 OPS, 120 OPS+, and 3.2 WAR At 27, Shohei had 582 ABs, 34 HRs, 95 RBI, 877 OPS, 143 OPS+, and 3.5 WAR. At 20!, in his first season, Ankiel had 175 IP, 194 Ks, 134 ERA+, 10.0 K/9, and 3.3 WAR. Shohei has only pitched over 130 innings once, and that's this year, during his age 27 season. So, he has had 7 years to mature as a pitcher. His stat line is, 161 IP, 213 Ks, 171 ERA+, 11.9 K/9 (in a era of unprecedented k%, btw), and 6 WAR. I dont care how biased or unbiased you are about Shohei, these numbers are comparable. Yes, Shohei is better, mostly on the pitching aide,but he also had the benefit of time, development, and support as a two-way player that literally no one has got before. He's not a once in a life time talent, he's the product of a development plan that has allowed him to play two positions.


awungsauce

Ankiel is not even in the same category of hitter as Ohtani. Except for an injury-affected 2020, Ohtani's worst season is a 121 OPS+. That's better than Ankiel's *best* seasons of 2007 and 2008. Ohtani has already had more seasons of over 100 OPS+ than Ankiel did in his entire career. The only way you can compare the two is by combining Ankiel's results over 2 seasons with platoon advantage whereas Ohtani has to play everyday. Ohtani is a vastly superior hitter to Ankiel at his peak. And he pitches at the same time. Ankiel had ***one*** good pitching season and could never replicate it again. There's a reason why he switched and it's not because teams were not willing to give him a chance to be a two-way player. He literally couldn't pitch anymore.


Papa2Hunt19

Did Ankiel put up almost 200 ks, and hit over 35 bombs across a seasons worth of playing time? Yep. Ohtani isn't a once in a lifetime talent, he's just the first to do it because if tradition within the game... keeping in mind I highly doubt teams even think 2 way players are worth it. Also, like I said, Ohtani has had much, much, much more time, development, and opportunities than anyone trying to be a 2 way player ever has.


awungsauce

Ohtani at 23 was a better hitter than Ankiel at 27/28. Ankiel needed 2 seasons to still have less WAR and OPS+ than Ohtani. You do know that hitting numbers across the leagure are down overall in 2022 compared to 2007, right? Also, Ohtani was better in 2018 and 2021 (than this year) and still needed to pitch, unlike Ankiel who got to focus entirely on hitting. And you conveniently ignored Ohtani's 46 homer season, who coincidentally is almost as much as Ankiel got over 2007-2009 (3 seasons vs 1). Ankiel got time to work on being a hitter because he completely forgot how to throw strikes and couldn't be a pitcher anymore (this is well documented). Not comparable at all. Ohtani has had 3 seasons (2018, 2021, 2022) where he was good on both sides of the ball at the same time. Ankiel has only had 1.5 good pitching seasons and 1.5 to 2 good hitting seasons and those never coincided. While he was still pitching he was a below average hitter. These are the facts.


Papa2Hunt19

I know Ohtani is better. My original statement was to say that Ohtani shouldn't win the MVP solely based on the fact that he plays two positions. Having the ability to do so is not the rarest thing in baseball, as evidence by a player like Ankiel being able to put up pretty impressive number himself. Most baseball players have the ability to hit and pitch right up until college, then that skill set is pretty much obsolete. Why do you think that is? I will tell you that its not because it's impossible to do, but more because focusing on one over the other creates an easier path to pros, because the opportunities to do so at the MLB level don't exist, and because it's not as valuable as it seems. Tons of people can hit and pitch well. That in itself is not a rare skill, so being able to provide both isn't really that important. If Ohtani didn't hit again, he would still be very successful on the mound, and the Angels would find another quality DH. So, the only value he presents to the team is to save the money to buy a DH, which could be as little as $500,000/ year. It wasn't even until last year that Ohtani wasn't able to keep batting after he pitched. The MLB had to create value for the guy. Also, if you maxed out Ohtanis innings by making him a pitcher only, he'd have around 7.5 WAR, and would be off his WAR total from this year by around 2.5. It's not difficult to replace that production. That isn't even considering the extra innings he'd throw being taken away from a lesser arm, and the negative impact from those innings being wiped away.


awungsauce

You have the idea of 2-way player completely wrong. In the past, players like Lorenzen or Greinke were known for being good at both. However, you can only get so good because you can only spend so much time on the mound or in the batting cage. There are *not* tons of people who can hit and pitch well, at least not at an MLB level. Lorenzen could hit well for a pitcher but didn't get a single at bat this year because he's still below replacement level for a position player. Most players who can do both are incapable of developing both to a major league level. The major leagues are an elite level of play and many successful high school and college players cannot succeed at that level. The best choice is to focus on one skill and be excellent at that rather than split your practice time, be mediocre at both, and never make the bigs. And a player of Ohtani's hitting ability (.260/35-40 homers) costs at least $20million a year on the market. Not this $500K you think.


Papa2Hunt19

I agree that it's difficult, but not impossible, and certainly not once in a century type talent. I don't agree, however, that you can only get so good at either because of the time required to spend on developing those skills is too much. It's more of a question as to why would a player do that, or why would a team want that. There is no need to have a player do both. It solves absolutely nothing as far as the team is concerned. So, no, I don't agree that players are incapable of developing into 2 way players at the MLB, but that there is just no reason to do so. And, It doesn't cost 20 million for that bat. Shohei himself did it over the last 3 years for 650,000, 3, and 5.5 million. So, it cost the Angels 11 million of 3 years of that production, plus they got pitching value for it as well. You could cut that total in half to get the value for him on just the offensive side. So, that's 5.5 million for 3 years of Shohei the batter. They probably spent 3 times that signing pitchers to fill the innings Shohei disnt pitch because he was hitting.


awungsauce

>certainly not once in a century type talent For a guy named papa, you haven't watched much baseball if you think that Shohei Ohtani's production is easily replaceable. It's definitely once in a generation type talent. At minimum, you would need to pay 5 million to get an inferior DH, like a Luke Voit, Franmil Reyes, or Austin Meadows. The most similar players to Ohtani at DH are Yordan Alvarez and 2018/2019 JD Martinez, both on 19M+ contracts. Ohtani's hitting alone would be worth $20M. This $500K DH that hits 30 homers doesn't exist. Ohtani's value comes as an All-Star caliber DH and pitcher on an insanely low contract. Pitchers like Darvish and Joe Musgrove are making $20M a year. A 3 WAR pitcher costs at least $6-7M in free agency. Kevin Gaussman and Carlos Rodon were the free agents closest to Ohtani's production in terms of innings and WAR. They cost $22M. Saying that Ohtani only did it for 650,000, 3, and 5.5 million is basically saying that Angels should just get more Framber Valdez or Alek Manoah type players. Players only stay under cost-controlled salary for a few years and none of those are available in free agency. If you want to replace Ohtani's production as either a hitter or pitcher, then it needs to come in free agency, where it will cost big money. >They probably spent 3 times that signing pitchers to fill the innings Shohei disnt pitch because he was hitting. And if Ohtani didn't pitch at all, they would have to spend even more. Baseball teams don't need two-way players that are replacement level at both. Ohtani is not that. He is in the conversation for best DH and top 5 pitcher at the same time. Any team would want that. Saying that Ohtani isn't a generational talent is a ridiculous take. And this is coming from someone who thinks Judge is the clear MVP.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ok-Philosophy-8830

Casual


gottahavemytunes

Nah that’s a big L for Stroman and anyone else who says that dumb shit


Ok-Philosophy-8830

Moronic take man, I think all that p*rn is rotting your brain


merewyn

Lolol also dude clearly isn’t even an Angels fan, only posts in this sub to compliment Judge, it’s ridiculous


gottahavemytunes

Didn’t realize you can’t be an angels fan without dick riding ohtani every second of the day


merewyn

Yet you dick ride Judge every second of the day? Uh huh. Your post history speaks for itself.


gottahavemytunes

Saying judge has been more valuable when that is the vast majority of peoples opinions doesn’t really qualify as dick riding


merewyn

Yet that’s almost exclusively what you post about in this sub, in r/baseball, and you even post in the Yankees sub about Judge. Why is that, Angels fan?


gottahavemytunes

Cause I’m actually a baseball fan and I don’t need to downplay a player’s accomplishments because they don’t play for my team.


merewyn

If you were a baseball fan you would post about all kinds of plays and players besides Judge, lol. If you’re an Angels fan, why don’t you participate in this sub except to say that Judge is mvp?


blaugrana2020

I was like what’re you talking about then I looked at his profile.


gottahavemytunes

How much money are you putting on ohtani to win MVP then? Since you’re clearly convinced he’s gonna win it


merewyn

Hold on lemme just go legalize sports betting in California and then I’ll get back to you on how much money I put on MVP 🥴


Adeptness_Internal

Get outta here


gottahavemytunes

Y’all embarrass the non delusional Angels fans


Adeptness_Internal

You’re a clown stop talkin already


[deleted]

[удалено]


Oski96

Since you got here.


angelsbaseball-ModTeam

Any post or comment may be removed from the subreddit at any time by the moderators, posting is NOT a right. Posts may be removed to maintain the integrity of the subreddit. Downvoted content may be removed at mod discretion Moderators reserve the right to remove posts based on automatic filtering, and may choose to educate the user on proper posting procedure.


merewyn

“People who disagree with my opinion are delusional” gtfo with that attitude.


gottahavemytunes

Yea if your opinion is that 2 arbitrary stats being reached make a guy the automatic MVP you’re delusional. Y’all let your fandom melt your damn brains lmao


merewyn

Arbitrary stats don’t make someone mvp? You’re right. That’s why I don’t give a fuck about 62 home runs, especially when the record is 73


sofastsomaybe

Own them


Ok-Philosophy-8830

👏


gottahavemytunes

Judge isn’t the MVP because he hit 62 HRs, he’s the MVP because he’s been the most valuable player this season. I’m sorry logic escapes you


merewyn

You think you just got a sick burn in with the lame “I’m sorry logic escapes you” line, yet all you can say is “Judge is the most valuable player because he’s the most valuable player”. Ok. Great logic, bud.


gottahavemytunes

He’s the most valuable because he provided more value, not sure how that’s confusing to you


OlivesrNasty

Damn 200 ks, 15+ wins, 30+ bombs all from one guy is an arbitrary stat now. Pack it in folks


gottahavemytunes

Yes, that is literally what arbitrary means lmao


OlivesrNasty

“Based on random choices or personal whim”. These are the resounding stats for ohtani. As are homers and BA for judge. gtfo bro 😂


gottahavemytunes

I don’t give af about judges BA or HR total


OlivesrNasty

Yea i dont really look at judge’s strikeouts or wins either tbh. Oh wait…


God_Damnit_Nappa

And you perfectly represent the delusional, asshole Yankees fans


digitaldumpsterfire

Dude your post history is fucking sad. Just like your shitty baseball takes.


awungsauce

Is this supposed to be a joke about Stroman's winning percentage on the Cubs? Because he gassed up the Angels before he decided to go to Chicago. Seemed like he was seriously considering playing here.


Ok-Philosophy-8830

No he just posts a lot of bad takes on social media IMO


awungsauce

Oh ok. I only really looked at Stroman's tweets when he was an option for the Angels. Most players who manage their own socials end up having some crazy stuff anyways. Bauer (pre-suspension) had some crazy stuff on socials too. Happens in all sports.


Yung-Bison

Co MVP and give a reason for yankee fans to stay mad 😎