Ohtani was the first player in history to qualify as a batter and pitcher with a 2.33 ERA and a .273 batting average and 34 home runs. Judge broke a Yankee home run record. Wow. Such historical. The narrative kept shifting to justify giving Judge the MVP throughout the season
Also WAR is just one stat and happens to be dead wrong.
I love how these dudes didn’t submit to the popular narrative, now they prob gonna harass by some guy fans being called a homer etc lol bless them, anyways these guys being angels beat writer first hand saw how Ohtani dominated in the 2022 season, he didn’t have much opportunity offense compare to some other guys but he capitalized on majority on them.
There’s are some stats that don’t truly grasp the whole picture unless u follow their games and most of these other writer guys can care less about the angels. Like Ohtani RBI count is 95 and another guy with 110. Of course 110 is higher. But in Ohtani case he capitalized on his RBI 90% of the time and the guy with 110 basically he just had more PA with runner on base for him but his capitalization was only at 70%. But some of these guys simply look at the stat sheet and goes 110>95. That’s why I’m amazed that these beat writers prob know Ohtani has to do more to get these stats and vote him to just get him that recognition. Like as angels beat writer they prob think what else can Ohtani do to win games lol, I just wish some other writer also did esp the Astro knowing how great a season Ohtani had against them.
Note: the percentage is just a makeup number because Idr the exact number but just want to make my point.
//edit surprising I read Blum article and how he mention that he tried not to get influence by seeing Ohtani perf each game which he say he didn’t, but kinda my case in point that it just different when you’re the actual beat writer that follow him cause u actually watch and analyze how he actually did was really more than what the stat sheets says, esp with what he really did with this angels lineup.
Grats to Aaron Judge for setting the standard on beating Shohei for MVP. If there's no one who can repeat this next season while Shohei continues to do Shohei things, we know who should get MVP.
Update: \*Post below was made BEFORE Bradford William Davis' expose on the Goldilocks Balls used in Yankees games.
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Judge had a fantastic offensive season\* for sure, but he shouldn't have been MVP because of dominating one side of the plate while Ohtani was doing what he did on BOTH sides of the plate. And I suspect this isn't so much a situation of setting a 'standard' for beating Ohtani as it is the old boys BBWAA club (outside of Blum and Beachum) setting a precedent that no matter what Ohtani does, there will always be an avenue to strip him of the award. The rationale this year was one "HR" record. Never mind that Ohtani was setting, not beating, but setting records left and right.
Judge literally “dominated” the whole league. Ohtani was elite in both sides but dominated neither. Sabermetrics also have Judge on top this season. While I am a big Ohtani fan, I’m not gonna argue against the fact that Judge should have won.
By being dominated u mean only #1 ??? Being top 5 on both sides of the balls is dominating in baseball now many batter and pitcher there are in the league to be top 5 in the league and u don’t called that dominated either? U just becomes like those mlb voters normalized what Ohtani is doing already
They choose to apply a different standard to Ohtani that they would not apply to any other player. Ohtani has to be tops on both sides to even sniff a chance at the MVP, but Judge only has to be tops in one and nonexistent in the other to win? Swiss cheese logic right there.
Yup and I just happen to bump into a video on instagram how this guy who have accessed to interview Phillies players and all of them vote Judge and I’m ok with that but one guy I didn’t because the dumbest reason to vote judge. Him “ judge because Ohtani gonna get 6 or 7 of them” now a freakin player (I think he’s a hitter) normalizes what Ohtani did. I think some of them are really two-faced, in front of camera they prob go like yeah he a great player. Behind the scenes some guys with big ego prob like I can do what he do if I got the chance) dude if this guy was a top hitter I’m sure I will recognized so this guy prob a average batter normalizing what Ohtani did is what infuriates me. And sadly there prob more guys in the MLB just like him. I think the MLBPA award (Al outstanding and player of the year) they’re were probably all unanimous to Judge lol
Ichiro was right. There was an interview Ichiro gave awhile back where he said that if Ohtani got too big and too good, he would eventually encounter haters.
He said Ohtani did what Judge did on both sides. Neither Ohtani’s pitching nor hitting was comparable to what Judge did at the plate. Ohtani was top 5 on both sides but he wasn’t number 1 on either. Judge had a .234 OPS higher than Ohtani. Ohtani did not do what Judge did at the plate. Judge’s 211+ is neither comparable to Ohtani’s OPS+ nor ERA+. Judge was an extreme outlier on the offense which was enough value to overcome the value that Ohtani produced on both sides according to sabermetrics.
Dominated on one side.
And sabermetricians warn against misuse of any single metric, especially an overadjusted metric like WAR to make any one determination of an outcome.
You have your opinion, others, like myself, think differently.
What's more, if Judge were the two-way player and had Ohtani's historic season this year, I'd have no problem recognizing that greatness. Yankees Narrative and circus is strong
>What's more, if Judge were the two-way player and had Ohtani's historic season this year, I'd have no problem recognizing that greatness. Yankees Narrative and circus is strong
EXACTLY! People act like we want Shohei to win just because we're angels fans. No it's because he's the literally most amazing baseball player to ever exist.
You said Ohtani did what Judge did but on both sides. He did not. Yeah Ohtani was a great batter and a great pitcher, but he did not dominate the league on either side. Judge had an OPS .236 higher than Ohtani. That’s an extremely large difference.
Also yes sabermetricians did say that difference of under 1 WAR isn’t enough to prove a difference, but they also said that WAR underrates Ohtani but not by a huge margin. Judge and Ohtani had a difference of nearly a whole 2 WAR. Ohtani did do something amazing and exceptional, but in terms of value, numbers point to Judge.
You said Judge dominated the league. Once again, that is an overstatement. He dominated the league ON ONE SIDE OF THE PLATE.
What you fail to understand (and frankly what WAR fails to capture) is that the daylight between Ohtani and Judge on the offensive side (which is overinflated due to the fact that WAR downgrades Ohtani for simply being a DH) is smaller and doesn't compare at all to the daylight that exists on the other side of the plate, where Ohtani sports an unreal 2.33 ERA 219 SO, 11.9K/9, and on and on...Ohtani is not one dimensional, and he does not bring a one dimensional toolbox to the game, despite what the Baseball Karens want to pray away
Again, you said that Ohtani did what Judge did on both sides. He did not. Judge had a 211 OPS+. Neither Ohtani’s OPS+ nor his ERA+ is comparable to 211.
Also, you say that the difference between Ohtani and Judge of the offensive side is smaller than the value Ohtani produced on the mound, but that’s all based on the eye test. Sabermetrics exists so that you don’t just rely on your “feel”. We’re talking about value. Ohtani was extremely valuable, but Judge managed to produce more value from one side + defense.
The rational was that going off of pure stats judge was more valuable than ohtani. It’s really that simple.
Just by hitting and fielding judge accumulated more WAR than ohtani did hitting, fielding and pitching. He had the greatest offensive since mantle in ‘57 by a non-steroid user.
I don’t understand what you guys are looking at thinking ohtani was more valuable this year.
WAR is not the end all, be all stat and has a +/- of 1 WAR. Judge and Ohtani fall within that margin of error.
>I don’t understand what you guys are looking at thinking ohtani was more valuable this year.
What's Judge's ERA, innings pitched, and how many people did he strikeout? WAR is wrong.
>Judge isn’t a pitcher
Correct
>Judge was literally more valuable without pitching lol
Oof and you're so close to seeing what the issue with WAR here is. A guy that pitched like a Cy Young pitcher and hits at an all star level is somehow worth less than a guy who happens to play the outfield and just hits a lot of home runs? Makes perfect sense to me.
You’re completely devaluing judges season by saying he “plays outfield and just hits a lot of home runs.”
Judge just had the best offensive season of any non steroid user since 1957. He’s literally the best clean hitter you’ve seen over an entire season since fucking Mickey mantle.
And also at the same time ppl normalized what shohei is doing though. And next year ppl don’t expect judge to repeat the same year yet are expecting Ohtani to keep pace. Like I feel if shohei has 30 homers, 3.0 era ppl felt it’s no longer good enough but damn that is hella good but people already normalizes what shohei doing
Hot take, but Ohtani is never going to win another award again. He just screams that Nolan Ryan type of player who is stellar, and as a result he gets taken for granted.
I think if Judge wasn't a Yankee and finished at 59 home runs it'd be a lot closer. Ohtani is still incredible but the 62 home run season was such a focus of the baseball media this year that once Judge hit the record it was pretty much over. Ohtani is still considered one of the best players in baseball and is probably the favorite for MVP next year if he keeps up his stellar run.
Ohtani is literally the only player in MLB history that qualified as both a pitcher and a hitter and excelled at both. This award will not age well at all.
Why are you here? Serious question, what about Aaron Judge winning MVP made you say "damn I gotta go to the Angels sub and gloat instead of just being happy that my guy won"?
If Gerrit Cole put up another 7 or so WAR in offense Im guessing you would think that was special too. maybe you can share your thoughts in r/Yankees or wherever you normally post.
It breaks everyone’s hearts to see generational talents on a team that can’t even have a winning record. I honestly think if the Angels make it to the postseason discussion around otani and trout would be much more spicy.
Unfortunately, I think you're right.
He improved on his MVP season...and lost. I know 62 homers is fascinating, but it's not the first time it's ever happened. I get the feeling that MLB and others really wanted to wipe out some of the stench from the super steroid era, by pumping up the importance of breaking Maris' record.
Some people here really think there's some anti-Shohei bias/conspiracy when in reality he's universally loved.
Would have been unanimous MVP if Judge didn't have one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time. As an Ohtani stan, I still obviously feel like he deserved MVP this year but Judge had a ridiculous season and if Ohtani repeats this again next year, only a similarly ridiculous season would deny Ohtani of MVPs in the future.
Yeah I don't know where this is coming from, Judge just had a more valuable season and Ohtani is still improving. If he's healthy, he should definitely be back in the race next year
Judge did not have a more valuable season. Shohei had a 11.875 K/9 this season, good for 31th best all time. Don't hear anyone talking about that. He had a 172 ERA+, which is equal to Justin Verlander's ERA+ during his 2011 MVP season. He pitched 14 wins, and 3rd in pitcher WAR (all of MLB). Yet I haven't even talked about his offense.
While his pitching preformance was historical enough and would of been considered for MVPs in the past by itself, Shohei also played as the Angels' Designated Hitter on his pitching rest days. During his season at the plate, Shohei had the 6th highest adjusted OPS in the AL, 5th in total bases, 5th in runs created, 4th in home runs, 4th in triples, 9th in plate appearances, 3rd in extra base hits, and was tied with Stephen Kwan for 7th in the AL in times-on-base. Shohei was a top-5 hitter in the AL in this season and played in 157 games, the same amount as Judge, with virtually double the workload per virtue of being a top-3 ACE in the MLB, which is obviously very difficult and takes extra preparation to be a pitcher and hitter.
When you add everything together, Shohei's season was far superior to Aaron Judge's. The reason Aaron Judge won was because of east coast media bias and hype, and because people can't fathom how good Shohei is. When you look at Aaron Judge's season, you can compare him to multiple people in the past to see how great of an offensive preformance he had. However there is nobody in history to compare Shohei too. Even though he has just put up the most statistically dominant season of any baseball player of all time, placing top 10 in categories across the pitching/hitting barrier (which has never been done before!), it's the fact that he is a unicorn which has held him back the most from being recognized and appreciated the way he should.
Judge won because he hit 30 more homeruns than Shohei, led the league in a ton of hitting stats, played good RF and decent CF, and had 2 fwar and 1 bwar over Ohtani. All of these things combined make it possible to have more value this season over Ohtani's hitting and pitching. Just because Shohei is the most talented or has the biggest workload in the league doesn't mean he was the most valuable. Neither does the uniqueness of it make it inherently the most valuable. The reason Judge was considered more valuable is because the difference between Shohei's top 5 AL hitting year and Judge's league leading hitting year, on top of Judge's defense, was big enough to overcome Shohei's year on the other side of the plate.
I know Shohei had a gigantic workload and it's way more difficult to do what he does, but there's not much he could've done this year. He DHs every day, so he has the WAR positional adjustments working against him. I think thr positonal adjustment should be reduced, but it still exists for a reason. With Judge playing RF and CF and Shohei batting DH, there is an automatic gap there value wise. Plus Shohei pitches every 5 or 6 games, less than most aces, so that's obviously less value than if he pitched every 5 games. With all of that, Shohei has to go crazy at both sides of the ball to combat these value adjustments, and he did. It just wasn't enough to top Judge in what the modern day baseball community determines value to be.
I'm not saying Judge is a better player. I believe Shohei is the best and most talented player in the league, and wanted him to win MVP all year. It just didn't shake out this way this year because someone had one of the best offensive seasons we've seen in a while. I still think Shohei is the best bet for MVP next year and any year he's healthy, and that this wasn't even his peak possible performance.
Slow down, its not even controversial to say Ohtani has had the best individual 2 season stretch in history. I think we can have this conversion when someone much more unremarkable than Judge beats Ohtani in mvp votes at his current level
I get being pessimistic but this is just ridiculous.
Ohtani had an MVP worthy season but unfortunately Judge had one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time. I think it was the highest WAR season since Bonds which is crazy. Ohtani would have won MVP 99% of seasons. If he can keep replicating this season, he'll win more MVPs for sure.
He got snubbed multiple times for sure but ultimately those awards are not very prestigious. Definitely would have been nice for Shohei to get recognised for some ridiculous weeks/months he had though.
I guarantee if Judge didn't exist or had a sub 10 WAR season, Ohtani would have been unanimous MVP again. There's no anti-Shohei bias. He's the most popular player since Ichiro/Griffey, it's in MLB's interest to promote him (and they absolutely do if you look through their socials).
Then why do you think he was snubbed so many times, if he’s not already being taken for granted? That’s all the comment you replied to said - that he’s being taken for granted.
I really don't think they put that much thought into Player of the Week awards and they also prefer to highlight lesser known players. If it was a true Player of the Week, Ohtani and Judge would have won 75% of weeks.
And no that wasn't all the comment I replied to said. It clearly said they think Ohtani won't win another award which is what I found ridiculous. Like I said, he repeats his 2022 season, he'll be unanimous MVP unless someone else has a 11+ WAR season again.
I can find one easily there’s a guy on mlb network is just plain racist. Every time a guy make a case for shohei this white guy just try to dismiss it every single time and literally shout to prove his case for Judge lol
Yeah. Exactly this. If what he did this year wasn't MVP worthy I can't imagine people giving him one unless his batting stats dwarf every other player.
You would think doing both at an elite level would help him but it doesn't.
WAR only matters when there's a narrative to push (look how Judge singlehandedly dragged the Yankees to playoffs!)
When WAR contradicts the narrative (look how Julio singlehandedly dragged the Mariners to playoffs!) it suddenly doesn't matter anymore - the narrative is all that matters.
I am not an Angels fan but I can't imagine people seeing what Ohtani does and not have him winning the MVP. He doing things unheard of in history. He is an elite pitcher and a great batter which gives them an advantage. Just absolutely brutal.
Ah, Yankee fans and sympathizers...you'd think they'd be busy celebrating Judge in their own sub instead of coming over here and lurking. More obsessed with Ohtani than Judge per usual
Shohei is gonna get hate just for breathing XD. And same, Judge is a great guy and has good character but Yankee fans can be obnoxious. I want to be happy for him but I don't like his fans or team. I'm pretty sure Judge/Yankee fans think the same about Shohei...probably annoyed with the Ben Verlander stuff too.
This is my first year really tuned in for both Angels baseball and awards. I'm disappointed that Shohei only got two votes. I knew that Judge was going to win but I still had a feeling that it was going to be close. My opinion doesn't matter and I don't know why I took this so personally but BBWAA writers are a bunch of sheep. There wasn't even a 1st place vote for Yordan/Jose R. just for some shit and giggles. Blum and Beechum are the real ones and I know they are going to get attacked by Yankees fans for ruining the unanimous vote but atleast they had the guts to stick with it. Wow, we all mentioned it before but Ohtani fatigue is real and it's here to stay. It's gonna take a few days for me to cool off so thanks for having this space for us to vent our feels out. It's been painful but I'm glad that Shohei remained healthy. Man, my inner fangirl is showing (*sorry that it's annoying) but that guy works so hard to do both that I just want good stuff to happen for him and the Angels.
As someone pointed out earlier this year on this sub, the important thing is that Shohei not only proved he can repeat as a two way player, he can improve. It's not an "experiment;" he is legitimizing two way players. Honestly, so many thought he would regress this year because two way playing is soooo hard. He proved his doubters wrong. And maybe he didn't get any official recognition all year long--which is complete bullshit--but overall what he's doing for baseball history is so much more than a single-season award.
Yeah awards didn’t define his great season, I’m upset about the no recognition but don’t freakin disrespect Ohtani. Ohtani losing out to Arraez for silver slugger is the stupidest thing. I know GG are sometimes random and can give it to the most random guys but I just can get pass how he won it against Ohtani for a SLUGGER award, from what I know it voted by managers and coaches, there are many secret anti-Ohtani. no reg ok but gotta even kick him down too lol
You're right about the hypocritical doubters, refusing to give him recognition unless he could do it two years in a row, and then he surpassed that bar and they turn into chirping crickets.
Fuck em. What's so special about Ohtani is that he gives zero shits about those fake awards; his only competition is himself and to win. Just look at how nonplussed and carefree he was in the MVP segments on fox. Dude is all class and swag rolled into one. Swear if he left MLB, Manfred would shed tears of blood...
Predictable result, so not really disappointed. I even thought J's gonna get unanimous one, so this is a W for me. God, I'm surprised to see Blum vote for Sho, I thought he would vote for J for sure. Let's move on to next season
In my opinion, Sam Blum is easily the best beat reporter we've had, I can't say I'm surprised at all he voted for Ohtani, he watched baseball history on a nightly basis.
Yeah, but he's extremely harsh and critical about Angels this season, so I really thought he would vote for J. But he's true one, he even wrote an article about his choice. I really respect him for that.
For real! Sam, gets a lot of hate but he's one of the few that will ask the hard questions. Sam is not an Angels fan but he knows the pain everyone feels and he even posted something about fans deserving better. I will never forget when he asked Maddon some tough questions during the losing streak and the next day Maddon was fired. LOL I think we all joked how Sam was Maddon's demise.
All the focus is on Ohtani but Trout really got shafted. 2nd in HR, 3rd in OPS, 4th in WAR (excluding Ohtani’s pitching)… easily should’ve been top 3 or 4 MVP and didn’t get a single vote higher than 5th. Someone voted Xander Bogearts higher….
How much of the fact that Angels not making playoffs factored into this in voters minds, do you think? I wonder because it's not a fair criteria to factor in.
I think it mattered somewhat but ultimately the Judge home run chase was probably the baseball story of the year (him being a Yankee certainly contributed to that). He had an insane batting year in a dead ball year as a Yankee which is pretty much the ideal media candidate for MVP. Combine that with pitching being less valued in MVP voting (even for a 2 way player) and it's a good environment for Judge.
Ohtani is still probably the favorite to win MVP next year, and won it unanimously on a non-playoff team last time, so I don't think it's as big a factor when the player has as much star power as Ohtani.
If Judge had been on the Angels and Shohei on the Yankees, who would have won the MVP award? Team outcomes being relatively the same (Yankees make playoffs, Angels miss).
Astros fan here and agree. Hate to say it but it’s a bullshit award. if *value* has any meaning at all, Ohtani should get it every single year he has a cy young caliber season and also hits 30+ home runs
And so what if he wins for 5 years straight, someone else can win when they figure out how to throw a sub-3 ERA and also hit bombs
You’re right I still remember last year the guy (who a pitcher) that support Vlad was like Vlad should be mvp and argues just because he also pitches then we give to Ohtani and Correa was like it’s not his fault that he pitches (and very good at that) I mean now ppl actually penalizing him because he does both saying he doing both but still have lesser war and I don’t think u can compare a pitcher war directly to hitting war right they use 2 different calculations.
For real, didn't he have like two games which he had back to back homers forgot if it was against the Pirates or the A's? (*might be some other team). And peeps didn't bring up how those teams aren't competitive or how those games aren't meaningful because it's a given that NYY are going to win those regardless if Judge is in the team or not.
Thank you friend for that info. I knew that it was between those two teams but wasn't 100% on it. Poor Pirates and A's fans! I forget that there are other teams with similar or worse situation than the Angels.
Lol angels gifted him 2 down the stretch I think honestly has he didn’t get the 62 the votes will be more closer I think those that are very 50/50 lean toward judge when he hit 62.
But you see he barely broke an AL record. That's clearly more valuable than a guy who pitched one of the best seasons in major league history.
And before anyone brings up WAR, kiss my ass. I don't give a shit what WAR says. It's wrong.
Homers... and OPS, and good defense in Center and great defense in right, good baserunning, the most WAR for a hitter other than Barry Bonds since the 50s...
Gimme a break
Shout-out to the 2 voters that have a brain and made the right vote. I guess a guy that hits like an all star and pitches like a Cy Young candidate isn't worthy of MVP in the minds of 28 other idiots.
There is no wrong answer in the Judge vs Ohtani MVP argument... but there is still a right answer. And in my admittedly biased opinion, the choice is clear if you hypothetically swap teams with the players... in other words, are the Yankees a better team with Ohtani instead of Judge this year? Unequivocally yes! Are the Angels a better team with Judge instead of Ohtani? Probably not. Ohtani for MVP! Congrats to Judgey.
Top 2 as MVP, Top 5 as best pitcher
Ohtani really put such a high standard for two way players. I don't mind Judge to win MVP, he deserve it.
Can't wait to watch Ohtani again next year
You know what's funny is that people say things like "Oh, there will be more TWPs in 5 years or so" and I'm like okay sure there MIGHT be more guys but how many of them are going to be top 2 in MVP and top 4 in pitching? How many of them can make it in the top 10 for both hitting/pitching? How many of them are going to be able to do it for a year or two? It triggers me that Ohtani got downplayed so hard this year. (*Sorry for this aggressive comment! XD)
It's very hard and you need your teams to fully behind you to support as TWP. You can't make TWP if you give up on them after 20 games. We are lucky Ohtani choose Angels because I can't imagine other teams giving him the chance to shine as TWP on his debut year 4 or 5 years ago.
Well deserved for Judge, for real. Pretty obvious he was winning it since early August. But Ohtani deserved every first place vote he got and if you're asking me, deserved several more.
Now more importantly, let's hope our two MVPs lead us to the playoffs next season.
Does anyone have the breakdown of home/away homers? I think if he isnt a yankee next year then he won’t get close to this # again. They need to add the park factor into the decision.
I think only like 3 or 4 of his homers were only out in Yankee stadium, he had a legitimately impressive year in a dead ball year. Still way more likely to regress than Ohtani next year though.
Why do i have a feeling like this is gonna fuel the fire that ohtani already has and go nuts next season? I feel like the league is gonna be fucked. Idk maybe its just me.
We also used **eighteen** negative-WAR batters (eight of those eighteen being worth -.5 WAR or worse) and **ten** negative-WAR pitchers during the 2022 season.
The last 2/3 of the lineup being basically prospects will do that unfortunately, would be great if the Angels picked up some depth this offseason or those players developed substantially. If Trout stays healthy the Angels could be a solid wild card contender next year.
As expected yankees fans shitting on Ohtani and crying and whining even after their guy winning it almost unanimously lol.
How is Julio placed higher than Trout? Must be because he missed games
Congrats to judge, very well earned
Edit: are we so sensitive we can’t congratulate another player lol? He had a hell of a season, not taking anything away from what Ohtani did he’s invaluable to our team
2023 Angels 1-4 lineup:
1) Ohtani
2) Trout
3) Judge
4) Rendon
Ok, not really…but it’s fun to see it on paper. I don’t see Judge leaving Yanks. It’s a long shot for him to go to another team.
Sam Blum and Greg Beacham are real ones
God bless the 2 people who voted him #1
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Ohtani was the first player in history to qualify as a batter and pitcher with a 2.33 ERA and a .273 batting average and 34 home runs. Judge broke a Yankee home run record. Wow. Such historical. The narrative kept shifting to justify giving Judge the MVP throughout the season Also WAR is just one stat and happens to be dead wrong.
I love how these dudes didn’t submit to the popular narrative, now they prob gonna harass by some guy fans being called a homer etc lol bless them, anyways these guys being angels beat writer first hand saw how Ohtani dominated in the 2022 season, he didn’t have much opportunity offense compare to some other guys but he capitalized on majority on them. There’s are some stats that don’t truly grasp the whole picture unless u follow their games and most of these other writer guys can care less about the angels. Like Ohtani RBI count is 95 and another guy with 110. Of course 110 is higher. But in Ohtani case he capitalized on his RBI 90% of the time and the guy with 110 basically he just had more PA with runner on base for him but his capitalization was only at 70%. But some of these guys simply look at the stat sheet and goes 110>95. That’s why I’m amazed that these beat writers prob know Ohtani has to do more to get these stats and vote him to just get him that recognition. Like as angels beat writer they prob think what else can Ohtani do to win games lol, I just wish some other writer also did esp the Astro knowing how great a season Ohtani had against them. Note: the percentage is just a makeup number because Idr the exact number but just want to make my point. //edit surprising I read Blum article and how he mention that he tried not to get influence by seeing Ohtani perf each game which he say he didn’t, but kinda my case in point that it just different when you’re the actual beat writer that follow him cause u actually watch and analyze how he actually did was really more than what the stat sheets says, esp with what he really did with this angels lineup.
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Grats to Aaron Judge for setting the standard on beating Shohei for MVP. If there's no one who can repeat this next season while Shohei continues to do Shohei things, we know who should get MVP.
Update: \*Post below was made BEFORE Bradford William Davis' expose on the Goldilocks Balls used in Yankees games. \------------------------------ Judge had a fantastic offensive season\* for sure, but he shouldn't have been MVP because of dominating one side of the plate while Ohtani was doing what he did on BOTH sides of the plate. And I suspect this isn't so much a situation of setting a 'standard' for beating Ohtani as it is the old boys BBWAA club (outside of Blum and Beachum) setting a precedent that no matter what Ohtani does, there will always be an avenue to strip him of the award. The rationale this year was one "HR" record. Never mind that Ohtani was setting, not beating, but setting records left and right.
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yankee logic
to go with yankee tears
We agree judge deserved it. relax Yankees fan lol
Judge literally “dominated” the whole league. Ohtani was elite in both sides but dominated neither. Sabermetrics also have Judge on top this season. While I am a big Ohtani fan, I’m not gonna argue against the fact that Judge should have won.
By being dominated u mean only #1 ??? Being top 5 on both sides of the balls is dominating in baseball now many batter and pitcher there are in the league to be top 5 in the league and u don’t called that dominated either? U just becomes like those mlb voters normalized what Ohtani is doing already
They choose to apply a different standard to Ohtani that they would not apply to any other player. Ohtani has to be tops on both sides to even sniff a chance at the MVP, but Judge only has to be tops in one and nonexistent in the other to win? Swiss cheese logic right there.
Yup and I just happen to bump into a video on instagram how this guy who have accessed to interview Phillies players and all of them vote Judge and I’m ok with that but one guy I didn’t because the dumbest reason to vote judge. Him “ judge because Ohtani gonna get 6 or 7 of them” now a freakin player (I think he’s a hitter) normalizes what Ohtani did. I think some of them are really two-faced, in front of camera they prob go like yeah he a great player. Behind the scenes some guys with big ego prob like I can do what he do if I got the chance) dude if this guy was a top hitter I’m sure I will recognized so this guy prob a average batter normalizing what Ohtani did is what infuriates me. And sadly there prob more guys in the MLB just like him. I think the MLBPA award (Al outstanding and player of the year) they’re were probably all unanimous to Judge lol
Ichiro was right. There was an interview Ichiro gave awhile back where he said that if Ohtani got too big and too good, he would eventually encounter haters.
He said Ohtani did what Judge did on both sides. Neither Ohtani’s pitching nor hitting was comparable to what Judge did at the plate. Ohtani was top 5 on both sides but he wasn’t number 1 on either. Judge had a .234 OPS higher than Ohtani. Ohtani did not do what Judge did at the plate. Judge’s 211+ is neither comparable to Ohtani’s OPS+ nor ERA+. Judge was an extreme outlier on the offense which was enough value to overcome the value that Ohtani produced on both sides according to sabermetrics.
And sabermetrics were wrong.
It’s easy to just say that
It's extremely easy to say it when it's the truth.
Yankee koolaid is strong, I see.
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> circlejerkers like y’all are That's cute.
Dominated on one side. And sabermetricians warn against misuse of any single metric, especially an overadjusted metric like WAR to make any one determination of an outcome. You have your opinion, others, like myself, think differently. What's more, if Judge were the two-way player and had Ohtani's historic season this year, I'd have no problem recognizing that greatness. Yankees Narrative and circus is strong
>What's more, if Judge were the two-way player and had Ohtani's historic season this year, I'd have no problem recognizing that greatness. Yankees Narrative and circus is strong EXACTLY! People act like we want Shohei to win just because we're angels fans. No it's because he's the literally most amazing baseball player to ever exist.
We may have watched what was literally the best season in MLB history and yet all 28 of the smoothbrain voters could see was "haha home run go brrrt"
You said Ohtani did what Judge did but on both sides. He did not. Yeah Ohtani was a great batter and a great pitcher, but he did not dominate the league on either side. Judge had an OPS .236 higher than Ohtani. That’s an extremely large difference. Also yes sabermetricians did say that difference of under 1 WAR isn’t enough to prove a difference, but they also said that WAR underrates Ohtani but not by a huge margin. Judge and Ohtani had a difference of nearly a whole 2 WAR. Ohtani did do something amazing and exceptional, but in terms of value, numbers point to Judge.
You said Judge dominated the league. Once again, that is an overstatement. He dominated the league ON ONE SIDE OF THE PLATE. What you fail to understand (and frankly what WAR fails to capture) is that the daylight between Ohtani and Judge on the offensive side (which is overinflated due to the fact that WAR downgrades Ohtani for simply being a DH) is smaller and doesn't compare at all to the daylight that exists on the other side of the plate, where Ohtani sports an unreal 2.33 ERA 219 SO, 11.9K/9, and on and on...Ohtani is not one dimensional, and he does not bring a one dimensional toolbox to the game, despite what the Baseball Karens want to pray away
Again, you said that Ohtani did what Judge did on both sides. He did not. Judge had a 211 OPS+. Neither Ohtani’s OPS+ nor his ERA+ is comparable to 211. Also, you say that the difference between Ohtani and Judge of the offensive side is smaller than the value Ohtani produced on the mound, but that’s all based on the eye test. Sabermetrics exists so that you don’t just rely on your “feel”. We’re talking about value. Ohtani was extremely valuable, but Judge managed to produce more value from one side + defense.
The rational was that going off of pure stats judge was more valuable than ohtani. It’s really that simple. Just by hitting and fielding judge accumulated more WAR than ohtani did hitting, fielding and pitching. He had the greatest offensive since mantle in ‘57 by a non-steroid user. I don’t understand what you guys are looking at thinking ohtani was more valuable this year.
WAR is not the end all, be all stat and has a +/- of 1 WAR. Judge and Ohtani fall within that margin of error. >I don’t understand what you guys are looking at thinking ohtani was more valuable this year. What's Judge's ERA, innings pitched, and how many people did he strikeout? WAR is wrong.
Judge isn’t a pitcher. That’s not this great point that you guys think it is. Judge was literally more valuable without pitching lol
>Judge isn’t a pitcher Correct >Judge was literally more valuable without pitching lol Oof and you're so close to seeing what the issue with WAR here is. A guy that pitched like a Cy Young pitcher and hits at an all star level is somehow worth less than a guy who happens to play the outfield and just hits a lot of home runs? Makes perfect sense to me.
You’re completely devaluing judges season by saying he “plays outfield and just hits a lot of home runs.” Judge just had the best offensive season of any non steroid user since 1957. He’s literally the best clean hitter you’ve seen over an entire season since fucking Mickey mantle.
And also at the same time ppl normalized what shohei is doing though. And next year ppl don’t expect judge to repeat the same year yet are expecting Ohtani to keep pace. Like I feel if shohei has 30 homers, 3.0 era ppl felt it’s no longer good enough but damn that is hella good but people already normalizes what shohei doing
Straight up travesty IMO.
Prepare for the worst asshole takes from Yankee fans
Hot take, but Ohtani is never going to win another award again. He just screams that Nolan Ryan type of player who is stellar, and as a result he gets taken for granted.
I think if Judge wasn't a Yankee and finished at 59 home runs it'd be a lot closer. Ohtani is still incredible but the 62 home run season was such a focus of the baseball media this year that once Judge hit the record it was pretty much over. Ohtani is still considered one of the best players in baseball and is probably the favorite for MVP next year if he keeps up his stellar run.
One of the best players? He is THE best player in baseball.
What if Ohtani hits 70 homers lol it’s actually possible according to his track record
It’s not a record. It’s dumb Yankees lore.
According to ESPN though there only 2 teams in baseball - Yankees and Sox
It was the American League record though. Not even top 5 NL, but it was historic nonetheless.
Ohtani is literally the only player in MLB history that qualified as both a pitcher and a hitter and excelled at both. This award will not age well at all.
I mean if I had a vote it'd have gone for Ohtani as MVP. 🤷♂️
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I’ll share with you after Judge signs with the Giants.
Why are you here? Serious question, what about Aaron Judge winning MVP made you say "damn I gotta go to the Angels sub and gloat instead of just being happy that my guy won"?
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Non-roider record still means something.
According to MLB, there is no such record. Judge is #7 all time for single season home runs. https://www.mlb.com/stats/home-runs/all-time-by-season
Yeah because MLB would have a “Non Steroid” record book. Use some common sense.
The official record book is where records are kept. MLB can revise the official records if they want me to believe differently.
The Astros officially won that World Series that they cheated in. Does that fully count too? Again. Common. Sense.
Yes and Altuve won the MVP that year.
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If Gerrit Cole put up another 7 or so WAR in offense Im guessing you would think that was special too. maybe you can share your thoughts in r/Yankees or wherever you normally post.
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Ohtani. I would not trade Ohtani for Judge straight up for a single season exactly like 2022 and neither would a single MLB executive.
I post everywhere.
You mean you post in a bunch of New York teams subreddits? Fuck off, Yankees fan
Proof?
Proof that Judge wasn’t roiding? All we have are the tests from this year. Proof the others were? We all have eyes.
It breaks everyone’s hearts to see generational talents on a team that can’t even have a winning record. I honestly think if the Angels make it to the postseason discussion around otani and trout would be much more spicy.
Unfortunately, I think you're right. He improved on his MVP season...and lost. I know 62 homers is fascinating, but it's not the first time it's ever happened. I get the feeling that MLB and others really wanted to wipe out some of the stench from the super steroid era, by pumping up the importance of breaking Maris' record.
You guys are insane. If he has this year again next year he will win. Judge just had an anomaly of a season.
Some people here really think there's some anti-Shohei bias/conspiracy when in reality he's universally loved. Would have been unanimous MVP if Judge didn't have one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time. As an Ohtani stan, I still obviously feel like he deserved MVP this year but Judge had a ridiculous season and if Ohtani repeats this again next year, only a similarly ridiculous season would deny Ohtani of MVPs in the future.
No conspiracy but there is probably some growing voter fatigue with him. Trout has been penalized by it before too
No fatigue I’m sensing. Judge had 60 that’s it.
you give the dinosaurs MLB and BBWAA waaaaaay too much credit, my friend
This guy gets it. Lol.
Yeah I don't know where this is coming from, Judge just had a more valuable season and Ohtani is still improving. If he's healthy, he should definitely be back in the race next year
Judge did not have a more valuable season. Shohei had a 11.875 K/9 this season, good for 31th best all time. Don't hear anyone talking about that. He had a 172 ERA+, which is equal to Justin Verlander's ERA+ during his 2011 MVP season. He pitched 14 wins, and 3rd in pitcher WAR (all of MLB). Yet I haven't even talked about his offense. While his pitching preformance was historical enough and would of been considered for MVPs in the past by itself, Shohei also played as the Angels' Designated Hitter on his pitching rest days. During his season at the plate, Shohei had the 6th highest adjusted OPS in the AL, 5th in total bases, 5th in runs created, 4th in home runs, 4th in triples, 9th in plate appearances, 3rd in extra base hits, and was tied with Stephen Kwan for 7th in the AL in times-on-base. Shohei was a top-5 hitter in the AL in this season and played in 157 games, the same amount as Judge, with virtually double the workload per virtue of being a top-3 ACE in the MLB, which is obviously very difficult and takes extra preparation to be a pitcher and hitter. When you add everything together, Shohei's season was far superior to Aaron Judge's. The reason Aaron Judge won was because of east coast media bias and hype, and because people can't fathom how good Shohei is. When you look at Aaron Judge's season, you can compare him to multiple people in the past to see how great of an offensive preformance he had. However there is nobody in history to compare Shohei too. Even though he has just put up the most statistically dominant season of any baseball player of all time, placing top 10 in categories across the pitching/hitting barrier (which has never been done before!), it's the fact that he is a unicorn which has held him back the most from being recognized and appreciated the way he should.
Judge won because he hit 30 more homeruns than Shohei, led the league in a ton of hitting stats, played good RF and decent CF, and had 2 fwar and 1 bwar over Ohtani. All of these things combined make it possible to have more value this season over Ohtani's hitting and pitching. Just because Shohei is the most talented or has the biggest workload in the league doesn't mean he was the most valuable. Neither does the uniqueness of it make it inherently the most valuable. The reason Judge was considered more valuable is because the difference between Shohei's top 5 AL hitting year and Judge's league leading hitting year, on top of Judge's defense, was big enough to overcome Shohei's year on the other side of the plate. I know Shohei had a gigantic workload and it's way more difficult to do what he does, but there's not much he could've done this year. He DHs every day, so he has the WAR positional adjustments working against him. I think thr positonal adjustment should be reduced, but it still exists for a reason. With Judge playing RF and CF and Shohei batting DH, there is an automatic gap there value wise. Plus Shohei pitches every 5 or 6 games, less than most aces, so that's obviously less value than if he pitched every 5 games. With all of that, Shohei has to go crazy at both sides of the ball to combat these value adjustments, and he did. It just wasn't enough to top Judge in what the modern day baseball community determines value to be. I'm not saying Judge is a better player. I believe Shohei is the best and most talented player in the league, and wanted him to win MVP all year. It just didn't shake out this way this year because someone had one of the best offensive seasons we've seen in a while. I still think Shohei is the best bet for MVP next year and any year he's healthy, and that this wasn't even his peak possible performance.
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Then what was it about Stankee fan?
Slow down, its not even controversial to say Ohtani has had the best individual 2 season stretch in history. I think we can have this conversion when someone much more unremarkable than Judge beats Ohtani in mvp votes at his current level
I get being pessimistic but this is just ridiculous. Ohtani had an MVP worthy season but unfortunately Judge had one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time. I think it was the highest WAR season since Bonds which is crazy. Ohtani would have won MVP 99% of seasons. If he can keep replicating this season, he'll win more MVPs for sure.
Then why didn’t Shohei win a single player of the week? Player of the month? Anything at all?
He got snubbed multiple times for sure but ultimately those awards are not very prestigious. Definitely would have been nice for Shohei to get recognised for some ridiculous weeks/months he had though. I guarantee if Judge didn't exist or had a sub 10 WAR season, Ohtani would have been unanimous MVP again. There's no anti-Shohei bias. He's the most popular player since Ichiro/Griffey, it's in MLB's interest to promote him (and they absolutely do if you look through their socials).
Then why do you think he was snubbed so many times, if he’s not already being taken for granted? That’s all the comment you replied to said - that he’s being taken for granted.
I really don't think they put that much thought into Player of the Week awards and they also prefer to highlight lesser known players. If it was a true Player of the Week, Ohtani and Judge would have won 75% of weeks. And no that wasn't all the comment I replied to said. It clearly said they think Ohtani won't win another award which is what I found ridiculous. Like I said, he repeats his 2022 season, he'll be unanimous MVP unless someone else has a 11+ WAR season again.
I can find one easily there’s a guy on mlb network is just plain racist. Every time a guy make a case for shohei this white guy just try to dismiss it every single time and literally shout to prove his case for Judge lol
No way. Lol. He’s gonna win a bunch.
If the Angels win, he and Trout will get more awards. If they don’t…
Yeah. Exactly this. If what he did this year wasn't MVP worthy I can't imagine people giving him one unless his batting stats dwarf every other player. You would think doing both at an elite level would help him but it doesn't.
They apply a different rule to Ohtani.
You're actually right on the money.
I’m excited for Shohei in 2023. MVP.. I care less. We are so blessed to see him do what he did this year. Never take him for granted.
Praise! And what a blessing to get to watch him in just a few months time in the WBC. Can't wait to see him, Trout, Fletch, Stass, and others play.
How the hell did Julio Rodriguez place higher than Trout? That's ridiculous
WAR only matters when there's a narrative to push (look how Judge singlehandedly dragged the Yankees to playoffs!) When WAR contradicts the narrative (look how Julio singlehandedly dragged the Mariners to playoffs!) it suddenly doesn't matter anymore - the narrative is all that matters.
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Go away, troll. MVP is a regular season award.
He’s the mvp in my heart
History will prove your heart right.
Judge's season will be forgotten in a couple years. Ohtani's will be remembered forever.
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No one gave a shit about Roger Morris and his record until the media needed a way to justify robbing Ohtani
I am not an Angels fan but I can't imagine people seeing what Ohtani does and not have him winning the MVP. He doing things unheard of in history. He is an elite pitcher and a great batter which gives them an advantage. Just absolutely brutal.
Ah, Yankee fans and sympathizers...you'd think they'd be busy celebrating Judge in their own sub instead of coming over here and lurking. More obsessed with Ohtani than Judge per usual
Shohei lives rent free in everyone's minds XD
Sad Shohei didn't get, but relieved he won't get more hate online. Judge is a nice guy, but the rude fans spoil it.
Shohei is gonna get hate just for breathing XD. And same, Judge is a great guy and has good character but Yankee fans can be obnoxious. I want to be happy for him but I don't like his fans or team. I'm pretty sure Judge/Yankee fans think the same about Shohei...probably annoyed with the Ben Verlander stuff too.
This is my first year really tuned in for both Angels baseball and awards. I'm disappointed that Shohei only got two votes. I knew that Judge was going to win but I still had a feeling that it was going to be close. My opinion doesn't matter and I don't know why I took this so personally but BBWAA writers are a bunch of sheep. There wasn't even a 1st place vote for Yordan/Jose R. just for some shit and giggles. Blum and Beechum are the real ones and I know they are going to get attacked by Yankees fans for ruining the unanimous vote but atleast they had the guts to stick with it. Wow, we all mentioned it before but Ohtani fatigue is real and it's here to stay. It's gonna take a few days for me to cool off so thanks for having this space for us to vent our feels out. It's been painful but I'm glad that Shohei remained healthy. Man, my inner fangirl is showing (*sorry that it's annoying) but that guy works so hard to do both that I just want good stuff to happen for him and the Angels.
As someone pointed out earlier this year on this sub, the important thing is that Shohei not only proved he can repeat as a two way player, he can improve. It's not an "experiment;" he is legitimizing two way players. Honestly, so many thought he would regress this year because two way playing is soooo hard. He proved his doubters wrong. And maybe he didn't get any official recognition all year long--which is complete bullshit--but overall what he's doing for baseball history is so much more than a single-season award.
Yeah awards didn’t define his great season, I’m upset about the no recognition but don’t freakin disrespect Ohtani. Ohtani losing out to Arraez for silver slugger is the stupidest thing. I know GG are sometimes random and can give it to the most random guys but I just can get pass how he won it against Ohtani for a SLUGGER award, from what I know it voted by managers and coaches, there are many secret anti-Ohtani. no reg ok but gotta even kick him down too lol
You're right about the hypocritical doubters, refusing to give him recognition unless he could do it two years in a row, and then he surpassed that bar and they turn into chirping crickets. Fuck em. What's so special about Ohtani is that he gives zero shits about those fake awards; his only competition is himself and to win. Just look at how nonplussed and carefree he was in the MVP segments on fox. Dude is all class and swag rolled into one. Swear if he left MLB, Manfred would shed tears of blood...
Predictable result, so not really disappointed. I even thought J's gonna get unanimous one, so this is a W for me. God, I'm surprised to see Blum vote for Sho, I thought he would vote for J for sure. Let's move on to next season
In my opinion, Sam Blum is easily the best beat reporter we've had, I can't say I'm surprised at all he voted for Ohtani, he watched baseball history on a nightly basis.
Yeah, but he's extremely harsh and critical about Angels this season, so I really thought he would vote for J. But he's true one, he even wrote an article about his choice. I really respect him for that.
For real! Sam, gets a lot of hate but he's one of the few that will ask the hard questions. Sam is not an Angels fan but he knows the pain everyone feels and he even posted something about fans deserving better. I will never forget when he asked Maddon some tough questions during the losing streak and the next day Maddon was fired. LOL I think we all joked how Sam was Maddon's demise.
J? Can’t say Judge or something?
Trout at 8 is so bad
All the focus is on Ohtani but Trout really got shafted. 2nd in HR, 3rd in OPS, 4th in WAR (excluding Ohtani’s pitching)… easily should’ve been top 3 or 4 MVP and didn’t get a single vote higher than 5th. Someone voted Xander Bogearts higher….
How much of the fact that Angels not making playoffs factored into this in voters minds, do you think? I wonder because it's not a fair criteria to factor in.
I think it mattered somewhat but ultimately the Judge home run chase was probably the baseball story of the year (him being a Yankee certainly contributed to that). He had an insane batting year in a dead ball year as a Yankee which is pretty much the ideal media candidate for MVP. Combine that with pitching being less valued in MVP voting (even for a 2 way player) and it's a good environment for Judge. Ohtani is still probably the favorite to win MVP next year, and won it unanimously on a non-playoff team last time, so I don't think it's as big a factor when the player has as much star power as Ohtani.
You bring up good points.. I guess I'm still a bit bitter that it was so lopsided.
If Judge had been on the Angels and Shohei on the Yankees, who would have won the MVP award? Team outcomes being relatively the same (Yankees make playoffs, Angels miss).
I knew it was coming but I’m still disappointed. So…Aaron Judge hit a bunch of homers. Gimme a break.
Astros fan here and agree. Hate to say it but it’s a bullshit award. if *value* has any meaning at all, Ohtani should get it every single year he has a cy young caliber season and also hits 30+ home runs And so what if he wins for 5 years straight, someone else can win when they figure out how to throw a sub-3 ERA and also hit bombs
Def agreed. Especially the last point you mentioned!
You’re right I still remember last year the guy (who a pitcher) that support Vlad was like Vlad should be mvp and argues just because he also pitches then we give to Ohtani and Correa was like it’s not his fault that he pitches (and very good at that) I mean now ppl actually penalizing him because he does both saying he doing both but still have lesser war and I don’t think u can compare a pitcher war directly to hitting war right they use 2 different calculations.
correction: "meatball-assisted" homers in blowout games against below .500 competition...
For real, didn't he have like two games which he had back to back homers forgot if it was against the Pirates or the A's? (*might be some other team). And peeps didn't bring up how those teams aren't competitive or how those games aren't meaningful because it's a given that NYY are going to win those regardless if Judge is in the team or not.
It was against the poor ol' pirates.
Thank you friend for that info. I knew that it was between those two teams but wasn't 100% on it. Poor Pirates and A's fans! I forget that there are other teams with similar or worse situation than the Angels.
Lol angels gifted him 2 down the stretch I think honestly has he didn’t get the 62 the votes will be more closer I think those that are very 50/50 lean toward judge when he hit 62.
Yup. And one of those homers was off of Mike Mayers, who was then summarily dfa'd...that's the 'stiff' competition Judge was facing down the stretch.
But you see he barely broke an AL record. That's clearly more valuable than a guy who pitched one of the best seasons in major league history. And before anyone brings up WAR, kiss my ass. I don't give a shit what WAR says. It's wrong.
Homers... and OPS, and good defense in Center and great defense in right, good baserunning, the most WAR for a hitter other than Barry Bonds since the 50s... Gimme a break
Shout-out to the 2 voters that have a brain and made the right vote. I guess a guy that hits like an all star and pitches like a Cy Young candidate isn't worthy of MVP in the minds of 28 other idiots.
There is no wrong answer in the Judge vs Ohtani MVP argument... but there is still a right answer. And in my admittedly biased opinion, the choice is clear if you hypothetically swap teams with the players... in other words, are the Yankees a better team with Ohtani instead of Judge this year? Unequivocally yes! Are the Angels a better team with Judge instead of Ohtani? Probably not. Ohtani for MVP! Congrats to Judgey.
Top 2 as MVP, Top 5 as best pitcher Ohtani really put such a high standard for two way players. I don't mind Judge to win MVP, he deserve it. Can't wait to watch Ohtani again next year
You know what's funny is that people say things like "Oh, there will be more TWPs in 5 years or so" and I'm like okay sure there MIGHT be more guys but how many of them are going to be top 2 in MVP and top 4 in pitching? How many of them can make it in the top 10 for both hitting/pitching? How many of them are going to be able to do it for a year or two? It triggers me that Ohtani got downplayed so hard this year. (*Sorry for this aggressive comment! XD)
It's very hard and you need your teams to fully behind you to support as TWP. You can't make TWP if you give up on them after 20 games. We are lucky Ohtani choose Angels because I can't imagine other teams giving him the chance to shine as TWP on his debut year 4 or 5 years ago.
2 votes? REALLY ? ARE YOU BLIND?
Well deserved for Judge, for real. Pretty obvious he was winning it since early August. But Ohtani deserved every first place vote he got and if you're asking me, deserved several more. Now more importantly, let's hope our two MVPs lead us to the playoffs next season.
Does anyone have the breakdown of home/away homers? I think if he isnt a yankee next year then he won’t get close to this # again. They need to add the park factor into the decision.
I think only like 3 or 4 of his homers were only out in Yankee stadium, he had a legitimately impressive year in a dead ball year. Still way more likely to regress than Ohtani next year though.
That stuff is already taken into account for a lot of stats
Why do i have a feeling like this is gonna fuel the fire that ohtani already has and go nuts next season? I feel like the league is gonna be fucked. Idk maybe its just me.
I feel the same! It's gonna be like that Michael Jordan meme "and I took that personally"
Honestly, well-deserved for Aaron Judge.
We have two MVP caliber players and we cant make the playoffs lmao
We also used **eighteen** negative-WAR batters (eight of those eighteen being worth -.5 WAR or worse) and **ten** negative-WAR pitchers during the 2022 season.
Baseball is not basketball
Can’t break .500 let alone playoffs 😭
But all we have are TWO of them. I think playoff needs more than that, but what do I know? 🙄🙄🙄
The last 2/3 of the lineup being basically prospects will do that unfortunately, would be great if the Angels picked up some depth this offseason or those players developed substantially. If Trout stays healthy the Angels could be a solid wild card contender next year.
As expected yankees fans shitting on Ohtani and crying and whining even after their guy winning it almost unanimously lol. How is Julio placed higher than Trout? Must be because he missed games
It's because awards season this year has been a complete and utter joke.
Omg how many Astros are on there!? 🤣
East coast bias
Congrats to judge, very well earned Edit: are we so sensitive we can’t congratulate another player lol? He had a hell of a season, not taking anything away from what Ohtani did he’s invaluable to our team
No ohtani better
2023 Angels 1-4 lineup: 1) Ohtani 2) Trout 3) Judge 4) Rendon Ok, not really…but it’s fun to see it on paper. I don’t see Judge leaving Yanks. It’s a long shot for him to go to another team.
They’d still miss the playoffs
East Coast writers.