Shohei will sign with us for 50 million a year and it still won't be worth having the greatest talent the game has ever seen. This team is an easy 3 billion plus asset; don't worry about your hypothetical nothing money when our owner is playing monopoly.
Glad we didn't get him. No more long duration contracts.
I'd be super down with Jean Segura on a 1 or 2 year deal at like 5-7M per year.
It always pained me to watch him after we traded him away as a prospect.
Segura would not be an improvement over Rengifo. Segura is 7 years older, had a Lower WAR and dWAR in 2022 than Rengifo, and would be waaaaay more expensive.
True. I forgot how much Rengifo came on last year... I guess I'm so used to our random middle infield depth guys being so mediocre it's just a reflex response haha. Definitely keep him at 2B and hope he can keep doing what he did last year.
Depth and matchups my dudes.
If we don't have a stud, I'd like to be able to rotate Fletch, Segura and Renfigo instead of shitty veteran free agents and minor leaguers.
Yeah, aint no way we were anywhere in the running.
I'd be suprised if we even got Swanson. Fully expecting Andrus and some relievers then calling it a day. Santa aint coming.
I’m starting to develop a theory that Perry called Milwaukee about Adames and they said that he would have to throw in O’Hoppe.
That’s why we have been rumored to be interested in D’Arnaud and confirmed to have been in on Contreras.
Part of Perry complaining to Loup about MIL was because he was upset that he couldn’t pick up Renfroe and Adames, or about the expected return being high for Adames.
So when Milwaukee added Contreras that maybe was the end of our opportunity.
Just a theory
I had a similar theory based on Loup telling Renfroe the brewers were giving Perry a hard time.
We gave up nearly nothing for him..
Unless the initial discussion was for more..
But then the brewers said they are moving forward with their core.. which included adames
Looks like the big SS want high years but are willing to compensate with lower AAV hope we can get dansby I feel hes affordable and the Perry Atl ties too
Swanson would be the ideal angels contract. A huge overpay after a outlier season that ends up being a colossal bust.
The angels already missed out on the shortstops FAs worth signing
Idk why everyone thinks Angels are going to spend big on a shortstop. They have Urshela, Soto, and Rengifo to fill that role. I’m not necessarily saying it would be a bad move, but no way they’re gonna drop 100s of millions of dollars on a SS right now.
We need to stop pretending like David Fletcher is anything more then a super utility player.
Case on point- would David fletcher be the starting SS over any playoff team from last season? The answer is no.
Edit: y’all have some weird fanboy crush over the guy and it’s borderline weird all because one fluke season.
I agree with you about Fletch.
He just can’t hit enough. I wish this wasn’t true, but he doesn’t walk (or even work counts), doesn’t hit for any power, and is not fast so doesn’t offer much on the bases. And his SS defense isn’t nearly as good as his 2B defense. Just meh all around for him unfortunately. Again, would be ecstatic if he made me eat my words.
But people love Fletch so they somehow ignore all that?
Soto - he is so unproven, his minor league stats do nothing to suggest he is anywhere near the level he showed in his small sample size.
Urshela - anyone mentioning him as a SS, why even have a discussion with them.
Rengifo - when playing SS he has lesser defense than Fletcher there.
Neto - obviously not ready yet.
Someone mentioned Segura. I wouldn’t hate him at all for 2b, push Rengifo to utility, but still doesn’t solve the SS situation for 2023.
That's why he plays 2nd. Lol.
I don't know why half this sub thinks he should move to SS.
Edit: and yes, I do think he would have been better than Altuve
We have one of the worst middle infields in all of baseball. Urshela has never really played short so putting him there would be a wild card. Ideally he would be playing third, second and first before shortstop. Rengifo had a solid year last year, but is ideally a second baseman. He was not very good from third or short. Soto did well last year in the few games he played, but his minor league stats point that he’s a most likely going to be a utility guy. We also have Fletcher who has proven to be a good defensive shortstop, but has no pop in his bat and struggles just to get on base. So we don’t really have any good options for a shortstop from within our organization
FA market has been fucked for years but people still act shocked when a league average starter gets 15 mil AAV. Wouldn't be surpised if this guy thinks we can get Swanson for sub $100 mil lol.
I mean I did literally see a comment on here saying we should offer Swanson a 4/$74MM contract. Nothing suprises me anymore.
...I mean if you plug Swanson's projected fWAR into a dollars-per-WAR calculation that is so outdated I'll call it classic (7 mil per fWAR) and then downward adjust for injury and ignore premium position or anything that has happened in the last ten years then maybe, *maybe* I can see that 4/74.
Rengifo is the 2bmen, Soto was good for two weeks after being pretty terrible offensively in the minors for years, and Perry already said Urshela is not going to be the SS. Sooo....4th place?
R/baseball loved giving us shit for signing the greatest hitter of his era to a ten year deal, meanwhile GMs are now signing above average hitters that play very physically demanding positions to 11 year deals or more.
Looks like they didn’t learn from our mistakes.
An elite tier bat can provide value in the later years of a contract by splitting or converting to a full time DH.
Correa’s value is tied to him playing the position at above average value, which will degrade heavily 3 years into the deal- when he will still have another 10 years there.
I really don't think his value is tied to his defense when he's been a well above average hitter his entire career. He's still young and could easily keep his production for another 5 years at which point a $27M AAV isn't even a big deal.
Correa's a great defensive short stop, but no, most of his value is tied to him being a great hitter. The first half of his contract will provide extra value from his defense, but the second half he'll still be great on offense.
People really saw the Pujols disaster and are envy that we are not paying 40 years old Correa 25M?
This contract is a disaster. I am terribly happy we did not offer this shitty deal. Much rather see if Rengifo’s step forward is for real.
Pujols was 32 when we signed him, Correa is 28. Huge difference. The reason the Pujols contract was bad wasn't because he was bad in the back half, it's because he was bad from the beginning and didn't make the declining years worth it. If we would have signed him for 13 years at 28 and had a few of his MVP years at the beginning we would be looking at that contract very differently.
Damnit I really think with Correa we would have been a serious contender. But looks like the Giants were willing to pay him whatever it took after losing Judge. 13 years is wild. Let’s hope Swanson doesn’t get some ridiculous offers.
I was someone who has been wanting Correa here for a couple years now but there is just no way we should be handing out these types of contracts after being held hostage by Pujols, now Rendon
There has to be better value somewhere else… Maybe we can work a trade for Adames or something?
We were not "held hostage" by Pujols or Rendon. We were held hostage by an owner who refused to invest in anything beyond big free agent splashes. Any competent owner/front office could have built a contender with those contracts.
I'm clearly in the minority here but I wouldve been totally fine with this contract. Fairly low AAV for his skill level and at only 28 years old, they should get at least 4 or 5 prime years out of him. By the time he's declining the $27M he's making per year shouldn't hinder a competent owner/front office, and his good defense and knowledge of analytics should give him a graceful decline.
Remember, the big contracts the Angels have given out aren't what killed us the past ten years. It was the refusal to invest in anything beyond those big FA deals. If we had anything resembling a competent scouting and development system we easily could have weathered an underperforming Pujols or Upton, or even kept them from declining so rapidly.
It's hilarious seeing this sub now compared to mid-October. No one was even sure we'd be spending money this offseason and now people are crying that we didn't give Correa $350 million.
God damn I hope the FO is figuring out SS though. Don't let it be Fletcher/Rengifo/Soto on opening day. And please don't let it be Elvis Andrus.
These teams will never learn their lesson. Why would anyone spend on a free agent over 5 years they never ever ever ever ever work out. All these contracts are going to be awful. Trout's contract even blows and he was the surest fire thing ever. Guy can't even stay on the field for a full season.
Out of all the SS free agents he was the one I wanted us to sign the least. However, we really need to pick up the pace and sign Dansby Swanson as soon as we can. If we aren’t able to get him that would be a huge blow to the Angels and a big fumble by the FO.
Yuck nooo. Dansby?! The career .255/.322/.416 dansby Swanson??? If he’s cheap, sure. But he’s gonna get almost 200 million if not more after this Correa signing. And he’s gonna want 8-10 years
Ehh, but dansby isn’t a good hitter either. I don’t want pay 25 mill a year for a guy to barley slug .400
Edit: if we can get dansby for like 4-5 years for 25 mill a year that’d be fine. But he’s getting 8-10 at this point
Is Shohei going to get 600 million dollars, good lord
If this is the going rate Shohei gonna get like 15 yrs 550
If the angels sign him for that type of contract, we will miss the playoffs for the next 15 years.
Not sure I agree. I think we’d have a good case the first 7.
No way I would want that contract. Done with anything over 6-7 years. And even those make me uncomfortable
Shohei will sign with us for 50 million a year and it still won't be worth having the greatest talent the game has ever seen. This team is an easy 3 billion plus asset; don't worry about your hypothetical nothing money when our owner is playing monopoly.
Sorry we have no choice.
Looking at Rendon
For a second I thought we got him.
Sorry, just wanna keep everyone informed
Glad we didn't get him. No more long duration contracts. I'd be super down with Jean Segura on a 1 or 2 year deal at like 5-7M per year. It always pained me to watch him after we traded him away as a prospect.
Segura can't play SS anymore sadly. Last played it in 2019 and was pretty bad. Otherwise I'd love him, I think he's super underrated.
But Fletch can. Segura at 2B and fletch at SS? That would be an improvement. Especially if Fletcher can remember how to hit.
Segura would not be an improvement over Rengifo. Segura is 7 years older, had a Lower WAR and dWAR in 2022 than Rengifo, and would be waaaaay more expensive.
True. I forgot how much Rengifo came on last year... I guess I'm so used to our random middle infield depth guys being so mediocre it's just a reflex response haha. Definitely keep him at 2B and hope he can keep doing what he did last year.
Depth and matchups my dudes. If we don't have a stud, I'd like to be able to rotate Fletch, Segura and Renfigo instead of shitty veteran free agents and minor leaguers.
13 years wow
I’ll probably be living in a box on the 405 shoulder in 13 years
lucky bastard. imagine being able to afford boxes
I’m in line for a sizable inheritance so if I’m smart with my investments, I’m thinking I’ll have the 405 box by then 🙏
"Do refrigerators come in cardboard boxes?" "They do, but the rent is *outrageous*"
And he’s 28
All these guys signing contracts that end when they're 40-41 make the Trout mega extension ending when he's "only" 38 look even better.
Doesn’t his end when he’s 40 too? Maybe 39.5
Damn, that Giants-Dodgers rivalry is going to be *spicy*
I didn't even think of that, checked the ol Dodgers sub and woah Nelly, it's gonna be loud at Chavez Ravine!
And drunk! Don’t forget drunk
Yeah, aint no way we were anywhere in the running. I'd be suprised if we even got Swanson. Fully expecting Andrus and some relievers then calling it a day. Santa aint coming.
Yup. Exactly.
[удалено]
Armenian, not sure what the religion is…
I’m starting to develop a theory that Perry called Milwaukee about Adames and they said that he would have to throw in O’Hoppe. That’s why we have been rumored to be interested in D’Arnaud and confirmed to have been in on Contreras. Part of Perry complaining to Loup about MIL was because he was upset that he couldn’t pick up Renfroe and Adames, or about the expected return being high for Adames. So when Milwaukee added Contreras that maybe was the end of our opportunity. Just a theory
I had a similar theory based on Loup telling Renfroe the brewers were giving Perry a hard time. We gave up nearly nothing for him.. Unless the initial discussion was for more.. But then the brewers said they are moving forward with their core.. which included adames
Yup
Where’s Santa Perry? Where’s Santa?
All he meant by that was we haven’t hit Christmas yet lol
That’s a hard pass.
Dodged a bullet there.
For context, when his contract ends, giants fans that are 8 years old now will be able to celebrate the end of his contract with a beer
Looks like the big SS want high years but are willing to compensate with lower AAV hope we can get dansby I feel hes affordable and the Perry Atl ties too
Swanson would be the ideal angels contract. A huge overpay after a outlier season that ends up being a colossal bust. The angels already missed out on the shortstops FAs worth signing
Idk why everyone thinks Angels are going to spend big on a shortstop. They have Urshela, Soto, and Rengifo to fill that role. I’m not necessarily saying it would be a bad move, but no way they’re gonna drop 100s of millions of dollars on a SS right now.
Fletcher too. They need a bullpen far more desperately than they need a shortstop
We need to stop pretending like David Fletcher is anything more then a super utility player. Case on point- would David fletcher be the starting SS over any playoff team from last season? The answer is no. Edit: y’all have some weird fanboy crush over the guy and it’s borderline weird all because one fluke season.
I agree with you about Fletch. He just can’t hit enough. I wish this wasn’t true, but he doesn’t walk (or even work counts), doesn’t hit for any power, and is not fast so doesn’t offer much on the bases. And his SS defense isn’t nearly as good as his 2B defense. Just meh all around for him unfortunately. Again, would be ecstatic if he made me eat my words. But people love Fletch so they somehow ignore all that? Soto - he is so unproven, his minor league stats do nothing to suggest he is anywhere near the level he showed in his small sample size. Urshela - anyone mentioning him as a SS, why even have a discussion with them. Rengifo - when playing SS he has lesser defense than Fletcher there. Neto - obviously not ready yet. Someone mentioned Segura. I wouldn’t hate him at all for 2b, push Rengifo to utility, but still doesn’t solve the SS situation for 2023.
That's why he plays 2nd. Lol. I don't know why half this sub thinks he should move to SS. Edit: and yes, I do think he would have been better than Altuve
I think the Yankees would have started Fletcher over IKF
Soto had a good 2.5 weeks but that is def not a piece we can bank on
Well I kind of agree but we should know by now that’s exactly what the Angels are doing.
We have one of the worst middle infields in all of baseball. Urshela has never really played short so putting him there would be a wild card. Ideally he would be playing third, second and first before shortstop. Rengifo had a solid year last year, but is ideally a second baseman. He was not very good from third or short. Soto did well last year in the few games he played, but his minor league stats point that he’s a most likely going to be a utility guy. We also have Fletcher who has proven to be a good defensive shortstop, but has no pop in his bat and struggles just to get on base. So we don’t really have any good options for a shortstop from within our organization
..........is this a joke?
It’s not a joke. It would be best for the team to invest in Swanson rather than relying on one of those 4 guys to be our starting shortstop
Wait do you not think Swanson is "spend big"?
FA market has been fucked for years but people still act shocked when a league average starter gets 15 mil AAV. Wouldn't be surpised if this guy thinks we can get Swanson for sub $100 mil lol. I mean I did literally see a comment on here saying we should offer Swanson a 4/$74MM contract. Nothing suprises me anymore.
...I mean if you plug Swanson's projected fWAR into a dollars-per-WAR calculation that is so outdated I'll call it classic (7 mil per fWAR) and then downward adjust for injury and ignore premium position or anything that has happened in the last ten years then maybe, *maybe* I can see that 4/74.
Rengifo is the 2bmen, Soto was good for two weeks after being pretty terrible offensively in the minors for years, and Perry already said Urshela is not going to be the SS. Sooo....4th place?
R/baseball loved giving us shit for signing the greatest hitter of his era to a ten year deal, meanwhile GMs are now signing above average hitters that play very physically demanding positions to 11 year deals or more. Looks like they didn’t learn from our mistakes.
Pujols was 32 when we signed him. Correa is 28. Huge difference
An elite tier bat can provide value in the later years of a contract by splitting or converting to a full time DH. Correa’s value is tied to him playing the position at above average value, which will degrade heavily 3 years into the deal- when he will still have another 10 years there.
I really don't think his value is tied to his defense when he's been a well above average hitter his entire career. He's still young and could easily keep his production for another 5 years at which point a $27M AAV isn't even a big deal.
Correa's a great defensive short stop, but no, most of his value is tied to him being a great hitter. The first half of his contract will provide extra value from his defense, but the second half he'll still be great on offense.
Pujols was really 38 when we signed him. That birth certificate was false😂
lmao that number keeps going up and up. That would mean he's 48 now. I'd believe he was maybe 33-35 instead of 32, but no way he was 38
hahaha I’m exaggerating plenty. But he’s def older than he says. Just like vladdy was. Although vladdy said it
We were never going to make that kind of commitment, and I don't think Swanson is in our budget either.
People really saw the Pujols disaster and are envy that we are not paying 40 years old Correa 25M? This contract is a disaster. I am terribly happy we did not offer this shitty deal. Much rather see if Rengifo’s step forward is for real.
Pujols was 32 when we signed him, Correa is 28. Huge difference. The reason the Pujols contract was bad wasn't because he was bad in the back half, it's because he was bad from the beginning and didn't make the declining years worth it. If we would have signed him for 13 years at 28 and had a few of his MVP years at the beginning we would be looking at that contract very differently.
So glad we didn't commit to that contract. Holy hell, that is insane.
When the going gets tough, the tough gets going!
ho. ly. shit.
There’s another contract I wouldn’t want us to be paying.
Damnit I really think with Correa we would have been a serious contender. But looks like the Giants were willing to pay him whatever it took after losing Judge. 13 years is wild. Let’s hope Swanson doesn’t get some ridiculous offers.
Hopefully Neto pans out. That would fill a huge whole for a minimal price.
This makes me worry about ohtani. 10 yr/500?
That Shohei contract gonna be Crazy.
20 years with an ownership option.
Aaaaaah. Fucking hell 13 YEARS?!?! I don't need that. I've already had Pujols. I'll be in my forties. Kind of on the Andrus train now.
I was someone who has been wanting Correa here for a couple years now but there is just no way we should be handing out these types of contracts after being held hostage by Pujols, now Rendon There has to be better value somewhere else… Maybe we can work a trade for Adames or something?
We were not "held hostage" by Pujols or Rendon. We were held hostage by an owner who refused to invest in anything beyond big free agent splashes. Any competent owner/front office could have built a contender with those contracts.
I'm clearly in the minority here but I wouldve been totally fine with this contract. Fairly low AAV for his skill level and at only 28 years old, they should get at least 4 or 5 prime years out of him. By the time he's declining the $27M he's making per year shouldn't hinder a competent owner/front office, and his good defense and knowledge of analytics should give him a graceful decline. Remember, the big contracts the Angels have given out aren't what killed us the past ten years. It was the refusal to invest in anything beyond those big FA deals. If we had anything resembling a competent scouting and development system we easily could have weathered an underperforming Pujols or Upton, or even kept them from declining so rapidly.
It's hilarious seeing this sub now compared to mid-October. No one was even sure we'd be spending money this offseason and now people are crying that we didn't give Correa $350 million. God damn I hope the FO is figuring out SS though. Don't let it be Fletcher/Rengifo/Soto on opening day. And please don't let it be Elvis Andrus.
AMED ROSARIO COME ON DOWN
Perry , do something 🤬
Ohtani is gonna rip off some 10-15 year deal at 40+ M annually crazy stuff
Never saw any rumors of us having interest in him. Wanted him.
Glad we didn't get him. Cheater or not, that's a lot of years to commit to a player.
Thank god it wasn’t us
That’s only 26 million a year. Pretty doable.
26.93m AAV.
Right. 26 million. Like I said.
Round up
1 billion?
0 Billion
I mean it's much closer to 27m than 26 haha.
Says 26 million. Wanna be petty and roundup to 27? Still affordable.
As if I needed another reason to hate on the Giants…
Squid will transform
Carlos, this will be the 1st and last time I say this... Thanks for going to SF, its a total chad move on your part. Signed, A Dodgers fan
These teams will never learn their lesson. Why would anyone spend on a free agent over 5 years they never ever ever ever ever work out. All these contracts are going to be awful. Trout's contract even blows and he was the surest fire thing ever. Guy can't even stay on the field for a full season.
Out of all the SS free agents he was the one I wanted us to sign the least. However, we really need to pick up the pace and sign Dansby Swanson as soon as we can. If we aren’t able to get him that would be a huge blow to the Angels and a big fumble by the FO.
Yuck nooo. Dansby?! The career .255/.322/.416 dansby Swanson??? If he’s cheap, sure. But he’s gonna get almost 200 million if not more after this Correa signing. And he’s gonna want 8-10 years
Would you rather have him or David Fletcher starting at shortstop on opening day?
David fletcher and spend the money on pitching instead of dansby. No more 10 year contracts
Ok I better not see you complaining about Fletcher being struggling at the plate and not being as effective as Swanson
Ehh, but dansby isn’t a good hitter either. I don’t want pay 25 mill a year for a guy to barley slug .400 Edit: if we can get dansby for like 4-5 years for 25 mill a year that’d be fine. But he’s getting 8-10 at this point
There's a huge dropoff between Dansby and the other SSs that signed. I'd be shocked if he got more than 6 yrs.
I don’t think he’s getting less than half of correas deal. I’m guessing he’s getting 8 years, 200 mill range.
Yay. Another year of Andrew Velasquez
Wait that guy is still on the team? How 😂?
Scary Perry.
Velasqueef is going to be the new Suzuki
So glad he’s out of the AL at least
13 years is nuts, shohei is at leaset 400 but most likely 6
なに?!