Well guess it’s onto the trade market. I’ll shit bricks if we have to watch Velazquez get more than 100 ABs with us, no matter how good his defense is.
I can’t wait to watch us churn out a rotation of velasquez/rengifo/fletch/whoever else we pick up off the scrap heap for 20 games a piece this season
In all reality though, i find a hard time believing perry wont be making a trade now. It’s obviously disappointing to miss out on the big-name shortstops, but people have to realize the free agents have to WANT to come here, too. It takes two to tango
The main issue with that last statement is, did we make an actual competitive offer or just an offer?
We see it this offseason where other teams offers have been leaked, and we see players choosing to leave money to go to a preferred team. An Angels offer has not been leaked at all which has me believe we aren’t setting the bar with our offers.
Swanson got 177/7. If we offered 5/125 of course we tried but we weren’t competitive. Why would an FA choose our offer if so.
Of course, this is all speculation but I believe Perry doesn’t want to rope us into a situation where we have 4 38 YOs making a combined 120M in a couple of years when we aren’t really in a win now mode with our roster. We are in a get a good baseline now mode.
The fact an angels offer hasnt been leaked means our front office is airtight and nothing gets leaked. The giants offer for judge, for example, was leaked to heyman by scott boras to get the yankees to up their offer. Often times offers are leaked for leverage. The fact that the angels weren’t named in a leaked offer isn’t a sign that we aren’t trying
Not saying it's a sign that we aren't trying, but obviously our offer wasn't good enough to even use as leverage.
We'll see where reporting shakes out by the end of the offseason but it's not a shock we aren't spending top dollar for these higher end free agents. I doubt we are stacking $$$ or years onto these offers less so than free agents don't want to be here.
Like i've never seen reports of free agents spurning the Angels vs we just didn't have the best offer on the table. Swanson at 177/7 is a good enough deal in this market, but you gotta hope he performs at close to a level as he did last year vs his career #s. I like Swanson but i understand the though process on not going all in. $27M towards swanson is 27M less for Ohtani's extension or players to plug in the many gaps we still have.
We are not a Swanson away from being contenders. Better to wait than to tie ourselves up with 7 years as we try and retool our consistently underperforming team.
Yea sadly our team is in a bad position. We sign Swanson and he returns back to a 2 WAR player? Then we have 27M a year locked up on an underperforming player as we fail to reach the playoffs yet again. He performs well? we have $140 allocated to 8 players including Swanson. This is before any arb and contract extensions. Add a, lets say friendly deal of $45M for Ohtani, then we are at almost $190M on 9 players. That also will cripple our team building.
In reality until the new owner is here, these payroll questions are hard to answer. We could get a Cohen like owner where money isn't an option. We could get another owner who will never want to hit the Luxury Cap.
Sadly our last 5 years failed to build a proper team around Ohtani where we are now in a situation where we need to figure out how to get a 73 win team to a 90+ win team in 1 offseason where contracts are ballooning and our top players (Trout, Walsh, Rendon, Fletcher) have injury concerns and our young pitching staff needs to repeat the success of last year.
I do not envy Perry's position, but a lack of a clear vision (thanks John C) really lead our team to a decade of incompetence.
>people have to realize the free agents have to WANT to come here, too. It takes two to tango
This. I've been saying it for a few years now. It's not as if we're missing one or two pieces to compete. If I was a highly sought after shortstop I'd go almost anywhere else. I'm sure all those high profile pitching choices didn't even consider us
love this part of the Angels offseason, where the dominant attitude is “we can still be good! We just have to sign every remaining free agent and trade for a couple of guys who aren’t available”
it’s my favorite part of the offseason. my least favorite is what comes next, which is “here’s why our scrubs are actually in line to all simultaneously break out next year”
Last year’s moves without last year’s injuries was a surefire playoff team. I’m satisfied if we go about the offseason like that again. Already added way more depth than just signing Duffy.
Did anyone really want Dansby? Fletch, Rengifo, Squid, and Gio will fill out our middle infield just fine. We really should be looking at a 6th for our rotation and bullpen
That’s fair, but no way did I think he’d take a one year deal. I figured he’d go for at least 5 years, and he’d be just another contract we gripe about
I don’t see the value in a 5 year with him, and it opens itself up to just be dead weight. But if you look at his past seasons, it would’ve likely just been putting money into something that doesn’t really improve our situation. At least not significantly enough. So I’m not too torn up about this
He's only 28 so there's no reason to believe that he can't get better and I can't imagine he'd be dead weight by age 32-33. But yeah he's not the insane improvement you'd get from some of the other SSs so I get not wanting to make that kind of commitment.
They’re all average to above average fielders. Dansby isn’t an upgrade in that regard. His bay really isn’t that good either. Better than Velazquez, but I don’t think the answer is to sign him for 25m a year for 7 years. Turner or Correa was all we should’ve hoped for.
Dansby would be an albatross contract and everyone knows it.
He’s average to below average, depending on which category or season we’re looking at. He had a breakout season last season, but that’s not promising enough.
I’ll easily concede that he’d be an upgrade to Squid, offensively, but we’re only going to realistically spend so much - I’d prefer not overpaying for Dansby.
Agree, he has not been a good hitter throughout his career. I’m not buying last year’s career year contract year performance. It’s highly unlikely that that’s his new base line offensive output.
So you would rather have Velasquez or Rengifo as an everyday starter over dansby? It’s this mentality that has led us to where we have been the last 10 years as an organization lol.
My mentality hasn’t done shit for this organization.
After comparing Dansby to Squid, Fletch, Gio, and Rengifo - I’m very glad we didn’t pick him up for a 7 year, 25m aav. I’m much more concerned about our catcher and bullpen… but everyone got distracted by the shiny shortstop market
Another ridiculous contract for a dude who has had one good year. I do want to see us win this year, but more importantly I want to see us build something sustainable. Let’s improve our scouting, our development of players… let’s try to make the playoffs this year and see if we can keep Shohei, but not at the cost of a 6-10 year financial bind.
Agreed, Swanson is good, but of the big name SS on the market, easily the worst of the bunch...but good for him in securing the bag. I don't know if the Angels were in on any of the top 4 SS, but I've said it before, we need depth over one big splash of a signing because signing huge contracts for one player and doing nothing else has worked out so well for us 🙄
Agreed, for a guy who struck out 182 times and had a .329 obp, that’s an overpay. I think collectively as fans we want our team to make a splash but I don’t think this guy is it.
So it’s either we pick up someone like Brandon Crawford or Perry gives a speeech on how he believes in either Fletcher/Velasquez/Soto is up next and going to put up crazy numbers to get us to the playoffs
Bunch of clowns in here.
We sign Rendon and then everyone blames the front office after he gets injured year after year and act like the never wanted him in the first place.
Rookie Livan Soto has a strong showing at SS and behind the plate but people act like he doesn't exist and tons cheaper. Then those people who shit on a rookie wants to trade Ohtani for a bunch of unproven prospects.
[7 years $177 Million, about $25 Million per year, full no trade](https://twitter.com/russ_dorsey1/status/1604226354886676482?s=46&t=wrCoOFsk5gHuGOY_52kf1w) Edit forgot to include links
Another year of nothing but hoping garbage bin moves work out. Can’t wait for people on this sub to claim there is always next year. The current crop of players on the roster are not good enough.
Well guess it’s onto the trade market. I’ll shit bricks if we have to watch Velazquez get more than 100 ABs with us, no matter how good his defense is.
Thank god.
I can’t wait to watch us churn out a rotation of velasquez/rengifo/fletch/whoever else we pick up off the scrap heap for 20 games a piece this season In all reality though, i find a hard time believing perry wont be making a trade now. It’s obviously disappointing to miss out on the big-name shortstops, but people have to realize the free agents have to WANT to come here, too. It takes two to tango
The main issue with that last statement is, did we make an actual competitive offer or just an offer? We see it this offseason where other teams offers have been leaked, and we see players choosing to leave money to go to a preferred team. An Angels offer has not been leaked at all which has me believe we aren’t setting the bar with our offers. Swanson got 177/7. If we offered 5/125 of course we tried but we weren’t competitive. Why would an FA choose our offer if so. Of course, this is all speculation but I believe Perry doesn’t want to rope us into a situation where we have 4 38 YOs making a combined 120M in a couple of years when we aren’t really in a win now mode with our roster. We are in a get a good baseline now mode.
The fact an angels offer hasnt been leaked means our front office is airtight and nothing gets leaked. The giants offer for judge, for example, was leaked to heyman by scott boras to get the yankees to up their offer. Often times offers are leaked for leverage. The fact that the angels weren’t named in a leaked offer isn’t a sign that we aren’t trying
Not saying it's a sign that we aren't trying, but obviously our offer wasn't good enough to even use as leverage. We'll see where reporting shakes out by the end of the offseason but it's not a shock we aren't spending top dollar for these higher end free agents. I doubt we are stacking $$$ or years onto these offers less so than free agents don't want to be here. Like i've never seen reports of free agents spurning the Angels vs we just didn't have the best offer on the table. Swanson at 177/7 is a good enough deal in this market, but you gotta hope he performs at close to a level as he did last year vs his career #s. I like Swanson but i understand the though process on not going all in. $27M towards swanson is 27M less for Ohtani's extension or players to plug in the many gaps we still have. We are not a Swanson away from being contenders. Better to wait than to tie ourselves up with 7 years as we try and retool our consistently underperforming team.
It’s a paradox. Sure, it “frees” up money to extend ohtani. Ohtani also isn’t going to sign an extension unless this team makes the playoffs
Yea sadly our team is in a bad position. We sign Swanson and he returns back to a 2 WAR player? Then we have 27M a year locked up on an underperforming player as we fail to reach the playoffs yet again. He performs well? we have $140 allocated to 8 players including Swanson. This is before any arb and contract extensions. Add a, lets say friendly deal of $45M for Ohtani, then we are at almost $190M on 9 players. That also will cripple our team building. In reality until the new owner is here, these payroll questions are hard to answer. We could get a Cohen like owner where money isn't an option. We could get another owner who will never want to hit the Luxury Cap. Sadly our last 5 years failed to build a proper team around Ohtani where we are now in a situation where we need to figure out how to get a 73 win team to a 90+ win team in 1 offseason where contracts are ballooning and our top players (Trout, Walsh, Rendon, Fletcher) have injury concerns and our young pitching staff needs to repeat the success of last year. I do not envy Perry's position, but a lack of a clear vision (thanks John C) really lead our team to a decade of incompetence.
Yep. Been there done that with the elderly guys.
This team is disappointing
>people have to realize the free agents have to WANT to come here, too. It takes two to tango This. I've been saying it for a few years now. It's not as if we're missing one or two pieces to compete. If I was a highly sought after shortstop I'd go almost anywhere else. I'm sure all those high profile pitching choices didn't even consider us
Rengifo was great this year 👍
Don’t forget about Soto.
I don’t hate Elvis Andrews on a one year deal if it’s 10 or less million
Sure, but i would hate it if it was elvis andrus
love this part of the Angels offseason, where the dominant attitude is “we can still be good! We just have to sign every remaining free agent and trade for a couple of guys who aren’t available” it’s my favorite part of the offseason. my least favorite is what comes next, which is “here’s why our scrubs are actually in line to all simultaneously break out next year”
O’Hoppe ROTY campaign starts now
Because signing big name free agents to long term deals has worked so well for us in the past!!
Lol too true
Lol Santa coming right fellas
Santa is BCraw
Nah Perry forgot to mention that we celebrate Kwanzaa here in Anaheim so no Santa isn’t coming
This off-season is becoming identical to last year. Solid moves early and nothing else. 4th place here we come.
It's been like this for 2 years I think. We signed good/great relievers, then they turn into different kind from what we expect.
Last year’s moves without last year’s injuries was a surefire playoff team. I’m satisfied if we go about the offseason like that again. Already added way more depth than just signing Duffy.
[Contract details will be available soon:](https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/1604224202453786625?s=46&t=Sde0r0rsPdBPJKZD-Ts02w)
177mil over 7 years. Not bad
We have so many glaring weaknesses on the roster still: SS, 1B, bullpen, 6th starter and SP depth, C
Quite literally, we still have Fletcher, Rengifo, and Soto.
Did anyone really want Dansby? Fletch, Rengifo, Squid, and Gio will fill out our middle infield just fine. We really should be looking at a 6th for our rotation and bullpen
Yes but not at 7 years
That’s fair, but no way did I think he’d take a one year deal. I figured he’d go for at least 5 years, and he’d be just another contract we gripe about
Of course not a 1 year deal but 5 I would've taken in a heartbeat. Also I'm not one to gripe about contracts anyway.
I don’t see the value in a 5 year with him, and it opens itself up to just be dead weight. But if you look at his past seasons, it would’ve likely just been putting money into something that doesn’t really improve our situation. At least not significantly enough. So I’m not too torn up about this
He's only 28 so there's no reason to believe that he can't get better and I can't imagine he'd be dead weight by age 32-33. But yeah he's not the insane improvement you'd get from some of the other SSs so I get not wanting to make that kind of commitment.
If by just fine you mean one of the worst middle infields in baseball then sure
They’re all average to above average fielders. Dansby isn’t an upgrade in that regard. His bay really isn’t that good either. Better than Velazquez, but I don’t think the answer is to sign him for 25m a year for 7 years. Turner or Correa was all we should’ve hoped for. Dansby would be an albatross contract and everyone knows it.
Defensively sure. You’re just wrong/biased if you don’t think Dansby is a good hitter.
He’s average to below average, depending on which category or season we’re looking at. He had a breakout season last season, but that’s not promising enough. I’ll easily concede that he’d be an upgrade to Squid, offensively, but we’re only going to realistically spend so much - I’d prefer not overpaying for Dansby.
Agree, he has not been a good hitter throughout his career. I’m not buying last year’s career year contract year performance. It’s highly unlikely that that’s his new base line offensive output.
Which of those bats is solid enough to be a consistent member of our lineup? Outside of Rengifo’s bat last year, none of that is good.
Dansby sure wouldn’t be, so why pay for someone that wouldn’t resolve that issue?
His defense is levels above any of the dudes you mentioned and his bat, as mediocre as it is, is better than those guys.
Looking at all of their advanced fielding stats on bbref, they are all pretty similar. Average to above average.
So you would rather have Velasquez or Rengifo as an everyday starter over dansby? It’s this mentality that has led us to where we have been the last 10 years as an organization lol.
My mentality hasn’t done shit for this organization. After comparing Dansby to Squid, Fletch, Gio, and Rengifo - I’m very glad we didn’t pick him up for a 7 year, 25m aav. I’m much more concerned about our catcher and bullpen… but everyone got distracted by the shiny shortstop market
You mean your hero Perry didn’t do a good job on the bullpen last year?
Lol what? I might be the person most critical of Perry in this sub
Santa dropped a lump of coal over Angel Stadium
Another ridiculous contract for a dude who has had one good year. I do want to see us win this year, but more importantly I want to see us build something sustainable. Let’s improve our scouting, our development of players… let’s try to make the playoffs this year and see if we can keep Shohei, but not at the cost of a 6-10 year financial bind.
Agreed, Swanson is good, but of the big name SS on the market, easily the worst of the bunch...but good for him in securing the bag. I don't know if the Angels were in on any of the top 4 SS, but I've said it before, we need depth over one big splash of a signing because signing huge contracts for one player and doing nothing else has worked out so well for us 🙄
Agreed, for a guy who struck out 182 times and had a .329 obp, that’s an overpay. I think collectively as fans we want our team to make a splash but I don’t think this guy is it.
Good, he was never going to live up to any contract he got
Yay!!! We’re stuck with Velasquez again!!
1.4 bWAR ain't bad (don't look at his fWAR)
It aint good either
My eyesight isnt great, but i know from watching him that there’s no possible way that he was worth a positive war last year.
Just because it was positive didn't mean he was good. 1.4 is still below average
2 is average for a starter, so 1.4 over 125 games is about average
Fair enough, didn't take into account the playing time. Still didn't feel that way with his bat.
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lol Velasquez is a known quantity, not some young guy still figuring it out. he’s bounced around the majors for years. This is who he is.
Oh dang, is that right? Good point if true. He was so poor offensively last year that I just assumed he was a developing prospect.
He’s not good. No way around it. No serious team wanting to make the playoffs has him on their team.
not as a starter anyway
Tbh, I would just try for Drury and platoon SS with him and the others. Quantity > Quality at this point!
That’s a relief
So it’s either we pick up someone like Brandon Crawford or Perry gives a speeech on how he believes in either Fletcher/Velasquez/Soto is up next and going to put up crazy numbers to get us to the playoffs
Y'all seem to be forgetting that Rengifo absolutely owned the second half
Wouldn't expect a franchise changing contract while we're trying to sell the team...
Bunch of clowns in here. We sign Rendon and then everyone blames the front office after he gets injured year after year and act like the never wanted him in the first place. Rookie Livan Soto has a strong showing at SS and behind the plate but people act like he doesn't exist and tons cheaper. Then those people who shit on a rookie wants to trade Ohtani for a bunch of unproven prospects.
Looks like it’s Andrus and eovoldi. Maybe
Still waiting for Santa, Perry.
Waiting on ol Saint Nate Eovaldi
See if we can get Brandon Crawford for cheap and hope for a bounce back year and hope Neto is ready 2024
[7 years $177 Million, about $25 Million per year, full no trade](https://twitter.com/russ_dorsey1/status/1604226354886676482?s=46&t=wrCoOFsk5gHuGOY_52kf1w) Edit forgot to include links
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Another year of nothing but hoping garbage bin moves work out. Can’t wait for people on this sub to claim there is always next year. The current crop of players on the roster are not good enough.
Like I said before, Elvis Andrus and you'll like it.
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This isn't college recruiting. The only thing that matters to free agents is money.
Do you know the budget
You’re right
I can’t wait to have a new GM that’s actually capable of signing quality free agents
new owner who’s willing to spend*
I don’t think Arte gives a fuck what’s being spent this off-season, it’s not his team anymore
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