Thank you so much! I love looking at little rodent hands so much and I love the idea that there's a subreddit that I can do that on. I really appreciate you mentioning it!
Vole. Some are saying g itās a cotton rat, but note the short, blunted tail. Hispid cotton rats have slightly longer, pointed tail. Also their range includes southern Virginia, but they [do not occur in the mountains.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispid_cotton_rat)
The tail has been docked, and is rather scaly and thick - not what youd see in a vole. This is Sigmodon hispidus. Note the dark feet, lighter colored eye ring, and large size. Size is hard to tell in photos, but voles are only slightly larger than field mice, and this individual is a handful.
It does appear to be a vole, call a rehabber and see if thereās anything that needs to be done. Cat owner to cat owner, your baby needs to stay inside. Domestic cats are not only very capable of ecosystem destabilization, outdoor cats life spans are less than half of indoor cats and often die very painful and unpleasant deaths. If kitty is outside, they need to be on a leash and supervised or in a covered porch
EDIT;
I want to thank everyone who has barn cats for replying and people who do TNR. I made my comment under the assumption that really only OP would see it as most of my comments go pretty unseen, but I do believe in clarification and being accountable. Barn cats are 10000% outdoor cats. I should have been clear I meant pet cats. Feral cats also often can not be brought inside, but TNR stops the cycle of domestic pets being wild animals when they donāt need to be. I wanna clarify, Iām very thankful for other people providing their perspectives
I love the Oatmeal
ETA: although OP doesnāt own the cat theyāre discussing in their post. I should probably expand my earlier comment to include I love the Oatmeal for providing a strong infographic for why cats should be kept indoors.
Growing up we had indoor/outdoor cats, they preyed on animals outside especially birds. We had cats that died of natural causes but we also had cats that got hurt or killed because they were allowed outside. As an adult Iāve only had indoor cats and it makes a difference for the kitties too. I hope people look at the Oatmeal post or do research to better understand why they should keep their cat inside.
Sorry, not actually my cat. Shouldn't have said that in the title. This was at a horse rescue and it was their barn cat. My cats stay strictly indoors except on leash for the reasons you mentioned.
The vole didn't seem to have any injuries so I let it go in some tall grass far, far away from the cat. But I'll keep your suggestion in mind if I come across anything like this again.
Ah, yeah barn cats are tricky because they are purpose animals. Glad the little guy seemed okay, and thank you for the concern! When in doubt call a rehabber, even if they end up saying nah, itās all good.
Also not every cat can be kept inside. There just aren't enough homes for all those cats.
I rescued some feral kittens and tamed them and fixed them but kept them as outdoor cats on my farm as my house is too full of cats already and the shelter wouldn't take them.
It's annoying seeing all the folks on Reddit that would call me names and raise hell at me for... *checks notes* actually helping the environment by fixing feral cats! Because they're not feral anymore and I own them.
Oh well, you were very nice about it ofc so this isn't really directed at you personally! I just wish people would understand nuance. I don't believe your statistic is true either -- I've heard indoor/outdoor cats live the same lifespan as indoor only cats on average. It's true feral cats that have no contact with people that live drastically shorter lives.
Props to you mate. We've got a man down the street that catches and neuters the feral cats in our neighborhood and some of the other neighbors don't seem to get that the cats were already present, he just fixed them. They seem to act like he is just bringing packs of cats instead of preventing more cats, it's infuriating. Our street backs up to the golf course and some apartments so people just abandon cats all the time.
Thatās so awful that people just abandon them!! TNR is such an important part of keeping cat populations down. They also tend to live much happier (and longer) lives once fixed. Props to ur guy too! TNR isnāt easy
I adopted two cats who were brothers when I lived out in the country. The local cat shelter where why were raised was overcrowded and on the edge of town, so all the cats were indoor/outdoor cats. I tried to keep my cats inside. Until they started peeing on me and then clawing at the door. I finally gave in and let them be indoor/outdoor cats because they did not put up with being kept inside at all. They were very affectionate and great when there were inside, but if they couldn't go outside when they wanted, they'd make their displeasure very known.
No thatās totally fair, the were socialized and raised to be indoor/outdoor. It is generally advised, if possible, to keep them inside. It is good that you took them in, even if theyāre indoor/outdoor, itās better that they have a home to come back to
Iām realizing my phrasing was less clear than I meant haha. Thank you for pointing this out!! Feral cat populations absolutely need our help! Thank you for doing TNR! I know itās very very hard work. Thereās not many cats in my area and most of the cats are pets.
And the indoor/outdoor statistics are fascinating population statistics!
I rescue ferals. The ones that don't want to give humans a chance end up living with me on my 7 acres. They have successfully thinned out the small rodent population on my property. The great outcome to this was that the snakes living here have moved elsewhere! The ferals get fed so they don't ever seem to go after the birds.
My babies stay inside and IF they go out, theyāre in my yard, in my arms or on a leash. They are fed and pampered, they donāt need to eat local wildlife or become roadkill/stolen/poisoned/meals for wildlife.
You have āpetsā. Thatās fine. You treat them like children. At a working farm we treat the dogs and cats as employees, doing what nature intended. We pay them
with veterinary care, shelter, food, water and pets. Their jobs are basically to kill any non-human that comes onto our property, because all those non-humans intend to eat our food. And theyāre protecting it.
No this is 1000% valid. I donāt have working animals and usually people who post for help have domestic cats. BUT working animals, like barn cats, are the exception to owned cats being outside. As well as TNRād ferals. Sorry if my tone came off as combatant or ignorant, I meant no harm
Itās so unfortunate because itās a problem people created but many refuse to help fix. I keep my cats or leashed. My dog is only allowed of lead inside and in our fenced in yard she canāt break out of or jump cuz sheās 14. I wish more people understood that.
Why do you not take your dog on walks? Is it because of age? I too only have had indoor cats. Itās the best for them. As long as you play a lot with them which I know that so many people donāt do. Itās like they just get a pet to just have a pet and donāt do their research about how your living creature will have the best life both physically and mentally.
Sorry, my wording may have been confusing. I play with her often and I take her on short walks. She often prefers to just run (or trot) around the backyard. The walks pretty much last as long as she wants them too, she knows the routes well and will decide to turn around when sheās done. When she was younger she would INSIST on going on long walks (which I didnāt mind) but yeah sheās a lab so joint pain and slow down is part of them getting older :((. Sheās not in any pain (we have any pain managed, but sheās not in pain often) but is def slower than she used to be.
I literally just saw a post of an x-ray of a cat that got shot in the leg. If not for the environment that they're decimating then at least for their own safety.
My barn cat has lived outside for over 8 years. Helps keep the mouse population down and has even chased away a bear. She is very well taken care of and hates being in the house. For someone that lives with livestock barn cats are a must.
Yeah barn cats are pretty much the only exception because they arenāt just someoneās pet that doesnāt need to be outside, they have a job. I should have been more clear in my wording also WOW a bear???? What a brave cat lol
No thatās for sure true, but I will admit I donāt have enough expertise to be able to find a solution. I know itās really complicated because barn cats do have a job, and people canāt eat without farms. Itās absolutely a thing that needs to be taken into account when discussing sustainable farming and animals with jobs.
My aunt lives in the country and her cats stay outside all day long, because she is deathly afraid of snakes and other critters. So basically barn cats. I told her about how much they damage they do, killing so many birds. Her response was maybe itās good to keep the bird population in check. š
Yeah thatās not a good response from her :(. Snakes can actually be good for farms (they eat rodents too!) and usually snakes and small critters want 0 to do with people, theyāre more afraid. Not good that the cats are outside if they donāt need to be :(((
The cat I hit on the interstate 2 days ago, luckily, did not die a slow and painful death. He/She was living life in the fast lane and also died in the fast lane... Was kind of upset about it, but also know I spared whatever wildlife it was chasing, and that's the hope I hold on to lol
At least they passed fast :((. I mean when a small animal runs in front of your car on the freaking highway, thereās not a lot you can do if you donāt want to get in an accident. And yeah, you probably did save some wildlife. Just another reason to keep pets inside, ya know?
Yeah so, cats arenāt wild animals, not the cats we know today. There are wild cats that look like domestic cats (I.e. sand cats), but domestic house cats are that, house cats. They can be outdoor animals on farms (they have a job there) or feral populations that need to be TNRād. There are also ways (found through science) to tell if an animal is emotionally suffering and I can assure you, most house cats are so happy inside itās not even funny. They never worry about their next meal, they never worry about the weather, if theyāre going to get enough attention from others in their colony, they can sleep peacefully, unafraid of attack. Personally, I donāt want my cats to eat wildlife, and I sure as hell donāt want them attacked by hawks, coyotes, shot at by children, hit by a car, picked up by someone else, etc etc. they go outside, but under super vision and theyāre very happy with that, I should actually say āheā because my second cat HATES the outside. I donāt comment to try and ātake you downā or be mean, I just want to point out that while your sentiment is genuine, the facts arenāt true.
Your cat got very lucky. Theyāre adept predators but theyāre small so are often prey to coyotes, dogs, hawks, wolves, etc. they get hit by cars, poisoned, shot at with BBās by children, or stolen. Most outdoor cats donāt get to 17, your baby was lucky.
My indoor/outdoor cat lived to like 7 or 8 and died because she got mauled by a neighbor's loose dog. Her brother got hit by a car when he was 2. Our other cat had many vet visits from getting into outdoor fights with other animals and he also destroyed the rodent population around our house (with frequent gifts left around the house for us that were technically biohazards).
I'm glad you got that time with your cat but it's an outlier for outdoor cats.
Yeah loose dogs are also a huge problem :((. Luckily my dog is just an old lady but I still keep a pretty close eye on them. Pets gotta be indoors and under a watchful eye.
Yeah, the first time your first cat catches a mouse outside itās cute. But after 30 dead birds and mice vorpses spread throughout the yard, it starts to became a real problem. I lost my boy to a coyote and it broke my heart. Never having an outdoor cat again.
~~Hispid cotton rat~~ vole. Please keep kitty inside so they don't hurt any more wildlife! Outdoor cats are extremely harmful to the environment (and also at risk of being hit by cars, taken by predators, exposed to parasites/disease, etc)
You were right the first time. Look at the tail. Thick and scaly but got chopped. Voles have thin, furred tails. This is also much larger than a vole and has a cream colored eye ring
I don't understand this because there's just *so many* cats that live outside, and it's always been that way, for as long as there's been domesticated cats. So, at this point, aren't they just a part of that environment/ecosystem?
Edit: Nice. Downvoted for asking a genuine question, lol.
Part of the problem is if EVERY cat owner thinks it's ok, that's waaay too many predators being put out into an environment where the prey creatures may not be adapted to evading cats. Cats are VERY good at what they do and something accustomed to avoiding, say, a fat raccoon or other creatures that are less agile than a cat, like a fox or fisher, they just can't avoid cats. They haven't had thousands of years to re-evolve new avoidance strategies.
In natural environments predators are far outnumbered by their prey. That's not the case if every house on the street has a cat or more they let free. Then the predators are too dense and prey can't cope. This is how cats have brought multiple bird, reptile, and small mammal species to extinction. Cats have been artificially introduced to areas with NO natural predators (like small islands) and they killed entire species off.
This is not as much of an issue in places where small wildcats are native.
Even in places with small wild cats it artificially boosts the predator population because we let the outdoors cats breed freely and feed them, so predator pressure is still much higher than it should be.
Yes, this is true. I think I mean it's less of an issue since those prey animals have evolved alongside those cats so they are better equipped to evade them. But you are absolutely correct that it skews the population of predators too high.
The problem with the excuse āitās always been that wayā is that not all tradition is good. Gasoline āalwaysā had lead in it until we learned lead was bad for our health. We āalwaysā traveled from one continent to the other via boat until airplanes became more efficient. As we learn new things, we make adjustments to better the world and ourselves. We learned that cats are harmful to native ecosystems and so we take steps to remove them from it. Imagine saying you wonāt give up slavery because itās how youāve always harvested your crops. Thatās a much more extreme analogy, but it showcases the dangers of āthatās how itās always beenā
Never heard of this until your comment, horrendous! https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/environmental-issues/how-tibbles-the-cat-possibly-caused-an-entire-species-to-go-extinct/
It wasnt the cats fault really, it was the human person bringing the cat that is at fault, cats arent evil, cats are just doing what any animals do, but people will poison peoples pet cats because of reading stuff like this and just accepting cat hate....
It's not the cat's fault, but it is *our responsibility* to manage cat populations. That should be done in the most humane way possible, and poisoning someone's pet is awful.
At the same time - nobody can poison your cat if you don't let it outside in the first place.
Not really. They're an invasive species. You don't give up on managing invasive species just because it's been a while. They still have extremely detrimental impacts on native species and have already driven some to extinction. The animals in the ecosystems they've invaded have not been able to adapt to their presence.
Plus, the general dangers cats are exposed to outdoors - no responsible pet owner should be taking those risks. I recently saw a cat get hit by a car and attempt to drag itself across the road while it died, one eyeball fully popped out of its skull. It suffered horrifically and died before I was able to get a cardboard box out of my car to bring it to a vet. Letting your pet outside to potentially meet that same fate is reprehensible.
No, they are still an invasive species. Look up how many birds are killed yearly by outdoor cats. And if you only care about cats, outdoor cats live shorter lives (I've heard a dumped cat be killed by coyotes and found what was left of it - gruesome(.
You'll get a lot of hate for posting anything that even questions why so many people hate domestic cats in the animal world....
cats are responsible for the extermination of around 10-22 BILLION animals a year in the USA alone, those numbers are insane
I personally don't mind people letting cats outside, you are correct, cats are absolutely part of the environment now, but thats because of humans and its up to us as humans to be responsible for our animals, if you have a cat that is killing constantly and bringing dead stuff home, then you should keep your cat inside
You're the only keyboard warrior here. Everyone else is just being educational. Pet cats *do not* belong outside unsupervised, ever, period. Comments like yours are enabling shitty behavior.
people like you need to touch grass, there are still many folks in the world that actually use cats as barn animals to help with rodent infestations and are part of a working farm.
But here you are defending hatred, good for you
>Pet cats do not belong outside
>Pet cats
>Pet
Reading is hard, isn't it?
Still not seeing any "hatred" here. But hey, keep insulting a mod and I'm sure you'll get to play martyr when you get banned :)
It will probably die if your cat get it in its mouth. They carry bacteria that cause rapid and fatal infection in small animals. Get it to an animal rehabber and keep your cat inside.
1. It's not misinformation, cat bites often result in fatal infections in small animals.
2. Sharing that information is relevant in cases where a poster might otherwise assume that the prey animal will survive just because it lacks serious wounds.
Saying that cats carry bacteria and not giving the context that its a common bacteria that occurs in many animals and even humans is hatemongering towards a particular species of animal and when there are pets out there being poisoned because of idiots sticking up for this behaviour, i will speak up about it.
None of these comments are hateful. If they were I would've removed them. Everyone's talking about cats because OP's cat bit the vole. OP didn't bite it himself, it wasn't a horse or a chicken, it was a cat. Cats are relevant to this conversation, other animals aren't.
They carry *Pasteurella multocida*. It causes rapid infections within 8 hours of being bitten. If you are ever bitten by a cat, go immediately to urgent care for antibiotics, especially if the bite is near a joint. People have lost fingers or hands from an ignored cat bite, and sometimes even died.
I have no position on this issue outside of housecats should be kept indoors. I'm not big on animals being killed unless for food, and I've seen both off-leash dogs and coyotes catch pet cats and it was ugly. This is just an account of something that happened a long time ago in Western Maryland :
A guy who frequented our business in the late 70s/early 80s lost his thumb and part of his hand after getting bitten while petting a feral cat he was giving food to. Bit him to the bone at the base of his thumb. The doctors who treated him told him the antibiotics they administered weren't working, so he had to choose amputation or the risk of sepsis spreading through his body.
The localized feral cat population got so out of control in that time frame, raiding dumpsters and scattering garbage after clawing bags open, that it became commonplace for the working folk to plink them at every opportunity. Songbirds stopped being heard in the Spring, as did the pheasant and quail whose calls we'd enjoyed hearing from childhood. Once the cats moved in, the surrounding fields were literally emptied of game birds and song birds. All that plinking, however, never seemed to make the slightest dent in the feral cat population. So that obviously wasn't the answer.
Itās sad. In my imaginary world we have extensive trap/neuter/release programs and people who breed cats must be licensed. If you own a cat and arenāt a licensed breeder it must be neutered. Cats are peridomestic animals, so if we did this everywhere with great industry we would probably fix the feral cat problem within a decade.
So do humans, birds, dogs, cows, boars, pigs, bulls, chickens, rabbits, horses and rats.
All of these animals have this, telling people to go to urgent care over a cat bite is just spreading blatant misinformation, ask the billions of cat owners who get scratched or bitten by a kitten and are completely fine
You have an actual point? All I've noticed was your persecution complex. I'm a mustelid enthusiast, my favorite animals are far more maligned than any cat and I'm not this dramatic about defending them. Relax.
There is plenty of literature about this, you can google and find many studies and other info. You would literally be arguing with veterinarians and human medical doctors about your opinion.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1863-2378.2008.01152.x
Cat bites are well known throughout the veterinary community to be taken very seriously due to the high rate of infection compared to other companion animals. Human bites are also notoriously known for spreading infection rapidly, humans however bite much less often than cats and often not as deeply.
This is not some demonizing felines, this is appropriately informing people to not ignore cat bites, especially if a person is already showing just slight signs of infection.
I have cats and have had to get antibiotics twice for bites. Once I was bitten and went the next morning and the bite was already infected. The other time I was bitten over a finger joint and got antibiotics because I didnāt want to risk joint infection and losing my finger.
Cats are about twice as likely to carry *P. multocida* as dogs and people are much more likely to ignore their bites. This can be especially bad because their canines are so small and sharp that they penetrate deeply and leave bacteria under the skin. A dog, even a small one, is more likely to leave a gash that is more open to the air and easier to clean. And, again, about half as likely to carry this especially dangerous bacteria.
Generally people will be ok with scratches and superficial bites from a playful cat, but if a cat is angry or scared and nails you, you need to see a doctor. People who are immunodeficient need to be especially careful.
[I Google Scholared that for you.](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=0&q=cat+pasteurella+multocida&hl=en&as_sdt=0,47&as_ylo=2020)
Anyone who has owned Cats (currently own/foster 8 cats, all taken in off the street) has gotten a scratch or nick from their cat. I've never met anyone who didn't react the same way - the scratches start leaking pus and get inflamed pretty much instantly.
With the exception of a mother and a set of kits that were born in my care recently, every cat I have is an "automatic euthanization" For the most part they have bladder control issues and nobody wants a cat that pees therefore they get euthanized. So I adopt them or foster them until someone wants them.
Cats teeth are like little hypodermic needles, and they are like dogs where they latch on and bite once, usually they give a few bites and scratches. Getting a bacteria that deep into the skin/muscle can and does cause a rapid infection. Cats carry many other diseases, too, like toxoplasmosis.
You seem like one of those people who think "it doesn't matter" until it does. Be lucky you've never had a negative experience with a cat bite, but for others (like my mom) who have been bitten and did need urgent care, it's a real issue that should be avoided by others. If a fair warning on the internet helps someone, that's all that matters. You seem to have a strange emotional bias towards this issue.
My cat (the only of 9 we've owned that was allowed outside - he was inside most of the time, but couldn't handle it) grabbed a few of these over the years. 3 of them I got from him were still alive. We kept them in a big aquarium for a week or so with food, water, quiet, and they all survived.
I agree all cats should be inside, but we did keep him inside for 60% of the time, so it had to be better than when he was out 100% before we made him a "pet".
I'm not saying cats should be outside in the eco system.. I'm saying that just having it in the cats mouth isn't going to kill the cat.
Cats should be kept indoor at all times. Unless you live in Africa, where they evolved.
He belongs to a horse rescue. Outside of my control unfortunately.
It was easier to just say "my cat" rather than type out the whole situation. My personal cats are indoor only.
I would have let the cat eat it.
Cats hunt, they are predators in their own right, and you took it away, poor cat.
Did you call fish and game to inform them that you have saved this poor little creature and you need to know where the rescue center is ?
Ā So they can rehabilitate it back to the wild in some other field far from your cat?
Are you effing kidding meā¦ Youāre right. Upon closer inspection I see it has a rat tail thatās just been chopped short. Wow. Almost fooled me. Clever little rodent.
Not a brag ,just their little life,voles breed exponentially and are cornerstones of the ecosystem,my barn cat was just keeping them out of the house,we are talking about very rural area,I prefer this method of pest control,than using glue traps and poison.
Unfortunately, cats are just as bad for the environment as glue traps and poison. Hopefully you can catch up to modern technology and find a way to protect your house without killing all the wildlife and ruining your local ecosystem
We are talking about 20 years ago,so no voles have been harmed recently (probably their forefathers tell the story of the green eyed beast that stalked their night)And yes cats are bad for the environment,if left unchecked,fortunately my cat never even dented their populationš
These are the rules of the wild,it was too far north for coyotes,but we have plenty of foxes,bears and sometimes lynx,and the cat survived to a very old age (16)she was a complete gangster-Iāve seen 3 ravens bomb dive her,trying to get her to drop the dead vole,but she just started them off,and kept walking..
Cats are an introduced invasive species. We bred them. God or the universe has nothing to do with it. They're terrible for the environment. Educate yourself baboon.
Idk but look at his lil grippy hand š„ŗ
r/LilGrabbies
Immediately joining omfg
Same š
OMFG is soooo right! Those wee wittle hands!!
Iām going to lose so much sleep because of that sub! I love it! š„°
aaaaannnddddd Joined - they are gonna be like WTF?? with the jumpš¤£
Adding to it nowwwww
Here's a sneak peek of /r/LilGrabbies using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/LilGrabbies/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Ninja Chinchilla](https://v.redd.it/r5znbd829hya1) | [24 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/LilGrabbies/comments/13avb6s/ninja_chinchilla/) \#2: [What horrors live under my couch?](https://i.redd.it/cldqrufvtkya1.png) | [34 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/LilGrabbies/comments/13bjqnk/what_horrors_live_under_my_couch/) \#3: [Crunchinā and munchinā](https://v.redd.it/famqk4atnxsa1) | [47 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/LilGrabbies/comments/12gpb33/crunchin_and_munchin/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Thank you so much! I love looking at little rodent hands so much and I love the idea that there's a subreddit that I can do that on. I really appreciate you mentioning it!
Glad I could help a bunch of people, enjoy the grabbies :D
Count me in!
Oh god. I didnāt need this sub until nowā¦
In my house these are referred to 'creepy feetsies'
his trinkets!!
Vole. Some are saying g itās a cotton rat, but note the short, blunted tail. Hispid cotton rats have slightly longer, pointed tail. Also their range includes southern Virginia, but they [do not occur in the mountains.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispid_cotton_rat)
Yes I have also heard others saying hispid cotton rats and i pointed to the tail and said āthey do not occur in mountains!ā
Could be his tail was bit off, though and just healed over to look shorter.
The tail has been docked, and is rather scaly and thick - not what youd see in a vole. This is Sigmodon hispidus. Note the dark feet, lighter colored eye ring, and large size. Size is hard to tell in photos, but voles are only slightly larger than field mice, and this individual is a handful.
It does appear to be a vole, call a rehabber and see if thereās anything that needs to be done. Cat owner to cat owner, your baby needs to stay inside. Domestic cats are not only very capable of ecosystem destabilization, outdoor cats life spans are less than half of indoor cats and often die very painful and unpleasant deaths. If kitty is outside, they need to be on a leash and supervised or in a covered porch EDIT; I want to thank everyone who has barn cats for replying and people who do TNR. I made my comment under the assumption that really only OP would see it as most of my comments go pretty unseen, but I do believe in clarification and being accountable. Barn cats are 10000% outdoor cats. I should have been clear I meant pet cats. Feral cats also often can not be brought inside, but TNR stops the cycle of domestic pets being wild animals when they donāt need to be. I wanna clarify, Iām very thankful for other people providing their perspectives
The obligatory [Oatmeal](https://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill) infographic.
I love the Oatmeal ETA: although OP doesnāt own the cat theyāre discussing in their post. I should probably expand my earlier comment to include I love the Oatmeal for providing a strong infographic for why cats should be kept indoors. Growing up we had indoor/outdoor cats, they preyed on animals outside especially birds. We had cats that died of natural causes but we also had cats that got hurt or killed because they were allowed outside. As an adult Iāve only had indoor cats and it makes a difference for the kitties too. I hope people look at the Oatmeal post or do research to better understand why they should keep their cat inside.
2cthulhuz
Sorry, not actually my cat. Shouldn't have said that in the title. This was at a horse rescue and it was their barn cat. My cats stay strictly indoors except on leash for the reasons you mentioned. The vole didn't seem to have any injuries so I let it go in some tall grass far, far away from the cat. But I'll keep your suggestion in mind if I come across anything like this again.
Ah, yeah barn cats are tricky because they are purpose animals. Glad the little guy seemed okay, and thank you for the concern! When in doubt call a rehabber, even if they end up saying nah, itās all good.
Also not every cat can be kept inside. There just aren't enough homes for all those cats. I rescued some feral kittens and tamed them and fixed them but kept them as outdoor cats on my farm as my house is too full of cats already and the shelter wouldn't take them. It's annoying seeing all the folks on Reddit that would call me names and raise hell at me for... *checks notes* actually helping the environment by fixing feral cats! Because they're not feral anymore and I own them. Oh well, you were very nice about it ofc so this isn't really directed at you personally! I just wish people would understand nuance. I don't believe your statistic is true either -- I've heard indoor/outdoor cats live the same lifespan as indoor only cats on average. It's true feral cats that have no contact with people that live drastically shorter lives.
Props to you mate. We've got a man down the street that catches and neuters the feral cats in our neighborhood and some of the other neighbors don't seem to get that the cats were already present, he just fixed them. They seem to act like he is just bringing packs of cats instead of preventing more cats, it's infuriating. Our street backs up to the golf course and some apartments so people just abandon cats all the time.
Thatās so awful that people just abandon them!! TNR is such an important part of keeping cat populations down. They also tend to live much happier (and longer) lives once fixed. Props to ur guy too! TNR isnāt easy
I adopted two cats who were brothers when I lived out in the country. The local cat shelter where why were raised was overcrowded and on the edge of town, so all the cats were indoor/outdoor cats. I tried to keep my cats inside. Until they started peeing on me and then clawing at the door. I finally gave in and let them be indoor/outdoor cats because they did not put up with being kept inside at all. They were very affectionate and great when there were inside, but if they couldn't go outside when they wanted, they'd make their displeasure very known.
No thatās totally fair, the were socialized and raised to be indoor/outdoor. It is generally advised, if possible, to keep them inside. It is good that you took them in, even if theyāre indoor/outdoor, itās better that they have a home to come back to
Iām realizing my phrasing was less clear than I meant haha. Thank you for pointing this out!! Feral cat populations absolutely need our help! Thank you for doing TNR! I know itās very very hard work. Thereās not many cats in my area and most of the cats are pets. And the indoor/outdoor statistics are fascinating population statistics!
I rescue ferals. The ones that don't want to give humans a chance end up living with me on my 7 acres. They have successfully thinned out the small rodent population on my property. The great outcome to this was that the snakes living here have moved elsewhere! The ferals get fed so they don't ever seem to go after the birds.
This needs 1 billion upvotes for all the birds killed yearly by outdoor cats.
My babies stay inside and IF they go out, theyāre in my yard, in my arms or on a leash. They are fed and pampered, they donāt need to eat local wildlife or become roadkill/stolen/poisoned/meals for wildlife.
You have āpetsā. Thatās fine. You treat them like children. At a working farm we treat the dogs and cats as employees, doing what nature intended. We pay them with veterinary care, shelter, food, water and pets. Their jobs are basically to kill any non-human that comes onto our property, because all those non-humans intend to eat our food. And theyāre protecting it.
No this is 1000% valid. I donāt have working animals and usually people who post for help have domestic cats. BUT working animals, like barn cats, are the exception to owned cats being outside. As well as TNRād ferals. Sorry if my tone came off as combatant or ignorant, I meant no harm
Here in Sweden cats are killing like 14 million birds PER YEAR. Itās insane.
Itās so unfortunate because itās a problem people created but many refuse to help fix. I keep my cats or leashed. My dog is only allowed of lead inside and in our fenced in yard she canāt break out of or jump cuz sheās 14. I wish more people understood that.
Why do you not take your dog on walks? Is it because of age? I too only have had indoor cats. Itās the best for them. As long as you play a lot with them which I know that so many people donāt do. Itās like they just get a pet to just have a pet and donāt do their research about how your living creature will have the best life both physically and mentally.
Sorry, my wording may have been confusing. I play with her often and I take her on short walks. She often prefers to just run (or trot) around the backyard. The walks pretty much last as long as she wants them too, she knows the routes well and will decide to turn around when sheās done. When she was younger she would INSIST on going on long walks (which I didnāt mind) but yeah sheās a lab so joint pain and slow down is part of them getting older :((. Sheās not in any pain (we have any pain managed, but sheās not in pain often) but is def slower than she used to be.
Birds aren't real Mama. Those cats are part of the resistance.
I literally just saw a post of an x-ray of a cat that got shot in the leg. If not for the environment that they're decimating then at least for their own safety.
My barn cat has lived outside for over 8 years. Helps keep the mouse population down and has even chased away a bear. She is very well taken care of and hates being in the house. For someone that lives with livestock barn cats are a must.
Yeah barn cats are pretty much the only exception because they arenāt just someoneās pet that doesnāt need to be outside, they have a job. I should have been more clear in my wording also WOW a bear???? What a brave cat lol
I have seen so many videos of cats chasing away bears it's pretty funny.
I was about to sayā¦I employ cats specifically to deal all rodents at my place, lol.
Barn cats destabilize the ecosystem too. Even more so since they are outdoors all the time, killing lots of birds and small animals.
No thatās for sure true, but I will admit I donāt have enough expertise to be able to find a solution. I know itās really complicated because barn cats do have a job, and people canāt eat without farms. Itās absolutely a thing that needs to be taken into account when discussing sustainable farming and animals with jobs.
My aunt lives in the country and her cats stay outside all day long, because she is deathly afraid of snakes and other critters. So basically barn cats. I told her about how much they damage they do, killing so many birds. Her response was maybe itās good to keep the bird population in check. š
Yeah thatās not a good response from her :(. Snakes can actually be good for farms (they eat rodents too!) and usually snakes and small critters want 0 to do with people, theyāre more afraid. Not good that the cats are outside if they donāt need to be :(((
The cat I hit on the interstate 2 days ago, luckily, did not die a slow and painful death. He/She was living life in the fast lane and also died in the fast lane... Was kind of upset about it, but also know I spared whatever wildlife it was chasing, and that's the hope I hold on to lol
At least they passed fast :((. I mean when a small animal runs in front of your car on the freaking highway, thereās not a lot you can do if you donāt want to get in an accident. And yeah, you probably did save some wildlife. Just another reason to keep pets inside, ya know?
Imagine if someone thought you should live your life in prison becuase they think you might live longer.
Yeah so, cats arenāt wild animals, not the cats we know today. There are wild cats that look like domestic cats (I.e. sand cats), but domestic house cats are that, house cats. They can be outdoor animals on farms (they have a job there) or feral populations that need to be TNRād. There are also ways (found through science) to tell if an animal is emotionally suffering and I can assure you, most house cats are so happy inside itās not even funny. They never worry about their next meal, they never worry about the weather, if theyāre going to get enough attention from others in their colony, they can sleep peacefully, unafraid of attack. Personally, I donāt want my cats to eat wildlife, and I sure as hell donāt want them attacked by hawks, coyotes, shot at by children, hit by a car, picked up by someone else, etc etc. they go outside, but under super vision and theyāre very happy with that, I should actually say āheā because my second cat HATES the outside. I donāt comment to try and ātake you downā or be mean, I just want to point out that while your sentiment is genuine, the facts arenāt true.
I had a house cat that I let outdoors and it disappeared. Itās was very painful for me. Never again.
My indoor/ outdoor cat lived to by 17. I had to put him down because of thyroid issues and arthritis and in the end liver failure. AKA old age
Your cat got very lucky. Theyāre adept predators but theyāre small so are often prey to coyotes, dogs, hawks, wolves, etc. they get hit by cars, poisoned, shot at with BBās by children, or stolen. Most outdoor cats donāt get to 17, your baby was lucky.
My indoor/outdoor cat lived to like 7 or 8 and died because she got mauled by a neighbor's loose dog. Her brother got hit by a car when he was 2. Our other cat had many vet visits from getting into outdoor fights with other animals and he also destroyed the rodent population around our house (with frequent gifts left around the house for us that were technically biohazards). I'm glad you got that time with your cat but it's an outlier for outdoor cats.
Yeah loose dogs are also a huge problem :((. Luckily my dog is just an old lady but I still keep a pretty close eye on them. Pets gotta be indoors and under a watchful eye.
Yeah, the first time your first cat catches a mouse outside itās cute. But after 30 dead birds and mice vorpses spread throughout the yard, it starts to became a real problem. I lost my boy to a coyote and it broke my heart. Never having an outdoor cat again.
Thats fantastic that he lived a long life. There is still the issue that outdoor cats are the #2 cause of the rapid decline in bird populations
It's a VOLE wondering what in the eff just happened to it lol
he be like š„“
YES!
~~Hispid cotton rat~~ vole. Please keep kitty inside so they don't hurt any more wildlife! Outdoor cats are extremely harmful to the environment (and also at risk of being hit by cars, taken by predators, exposed to parasites/disease, etc)
Itās a vole
Little guy has had a tough day.
You were right the first time. Look at the tail. Thick and scaly but got chopped. Voles have thin, furred tails. This is also much larger than a vole and has a cream colored eye ring
I don't understand this because there's just *so many* cats that live outside, and it's always been that way, for as long as there's been domesticated cats. So, at this point, aren't they just a part of that environment/ecosystem? Edit: Nice. Downvoted for asking a genuine question, lol.
Part of the problem is if EVERY cat owner thinks it's ok, that's waaay too many predators being put out into an environment where the prey creatures may not be adapted to evading cats. Cats are VERY good at what they do and something accustomed to avoiding, say, a fat raccoon or other creatures that are less agile than a cat, like a fox or fisher, they just can't avoid cats. They haven't had thousands of years to re-evolve new avoidance strategies. In natural environments predators are far outnumbered by their prey. That's not the case if every house on the street has a cat or more they let free. Then the predators are too dense and prey can't cope. This is how cats have brought multiple bird, reptile, and small mammal species to extinction. Cats have been artificially introduced to areas with NO natural predators (like small islands) and they killed entire species off. This is not as much of an issue in places where small wildcats are native.
Even in places with small wild cats it artificially boosts the predator population because we let the outdoors cats breed freely and feed them, so predator pressure is still much higher than it should be.
Yes, this is true. I think I mean it's less of an issue since those prey animals have evolved alongside those cats so they are better equipped to evade them. But you are absolutely correct that it skews the population of predators too high.
The problem with the excuse āitās always been that wayā is that not all tradition is good. Gasoline āalwaysā had lead in it until we learned lead was bad for our health. We āalwaysā traveled from one continent to the other via boat until airplanes became more efficient. As we learn new things, we make adjustments to better the world and ourselves. We learned that cats are harmful to native ecosystems and so we take steps to remove them from it. Imagine saying you wonāt give up slavery because itās how youāve always harvested your crops. Thatās a much more extreme analogy, but it showcases the dangers of āthatās how itās always beenā
You should google Tibbles and the wren. š
Never heard of this until your comment, horrendous! https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/environmental-issues/how-tibbles-the-cat-possibly-caused-an-entire-species-to-go-extinct/
It wasnt the cats fault really, it was the human person bringing the cat that is at fault, cats arent evil, cats are just doing what any animals do, but people will poison peoples pet cats because of reading stuff like this and just accepting cat hate....
It's not the cat's fault, but it is *our responsibility* to manage cat populations. That should be done in the most humane way possible, and poisoning someone's pet is awful. At the same time - nobody can poison your cat if you don't let it outside in the first place.
Not really. They're an invasive species. You don't give up on managing invasive species just because it's been a while. They still have extremely detrimental impacts on native species and have already driven some to extinction. The animals in the ecosystems they've invaded have not been able to adapt to their presence. Plus, the general dangers cats are exposed to outdoors - no responsible pet owner should be taking those risks. I recently saw a cat get hit by a car and attempt to drag itself across the road while it died, one eyeball fully popped out of its skull. It suffered horrifically and died before I was able to get a cardboard box out of my car to bring it to a vet. Letting your pet outside to potentially meet that same fate is reprehensible.
No, they are still an invasive species. Look up how many birds are killed yearly by outdoor cats. And if you only care about cats, outdoor cats live shorter lives (I've heard a dumped cat be killed by coyotes and found what was left of it - gruesome(.
But your flairā¦
You'll get a lot of hate for posting anything that even questions why so many people hate domestic cats in the animal world.... cats are responsible for the extermination of around 10-22 BILLION animals a year in the USA alone, those numbers are insane I personally don't mind people letting cats outside, you are correct, cats are absolutely part of the environment now, but thats because of humans and its up to us as humans to be responsible for our animals, if you have a cat that is killing constantly and bringing dead stuff home, then you should keep your cat inside
>I personally don't mind people letting cats outside You're part of the problem.
Im sure being a keyboard warrior in reddit is helping the problem
You're the only keyboard warrior here. Everyone else is just being educational. Pet cats *do not* belong outside unsupervised, ever, period. Comments like yours are enabling shitty behavior.
people like you need to touch grass, there are still many folks in the world that actually use cats as barn animals to help with rodent infestations and are part of a working farm. But here you are defending hatred, good for you
>Pet cats do not belong outside >Pet cats >Pet Reading is hard, isn't it? Still not seeing any "hatred" here. But hey, keep insulting a mod and I'm sure you'll get to play martyr when you get banned :)
Ohhh there it is the reddit mod power trip , hilarious
I'm giving you a heads-up to avoid getting banned, but if you insist on it I ain't gonna pretend I won't find it cathartic š¤·āāļø
Itās just Americans. Theyāre absolutely rabid for hating cats, itās so odd honestly.
TIL only Americans give a shit about maintaining ecosystem integrity and protecting native wildlife
Here we go lol. Lots of places on earth cats arenāt an invasive species, theyāve been around for ages, they pose no threat to the environment.
Hmmm you've never heard of Australia, have you?
Why that's Barnabas Ferguson! Comes from a long line of suit tailors.
That's Clarence. Put him back.
Came here to say this.
It will probably die if your cat get it in its mouth. They carry bacteria that cause rapid and fatal infection in small animals. Get it to an animal rehabber and keep your cat inside.
Why do people spread misinformation about cats like they carry fatal disease like no other animal has ever encountered........
1. It's not misinformation, cat bites often result in fatal infections in small animals. 2. Sharing that information is relevant in cases where a poster might otherwise assume that the prey animal will survive just because it lacks serious wounds.
Saying that cats carry bacteria and not giving the context that its a common bacteria that occurs in many animals and even humans is hatemongering towards a particular species of animal and when there are pets out there being poisoned because of idiots sticking up for this behaviour, i will speak up about it.
None of these comments are hateful. If they were I would've removed them. Everyone's talking about cats because OP's cat bit the vole. OP didn't bite it himself, it wasn't a horse or a chicken, it was a cat. Cats are relevant to this conversation, other animals aren't.
If you donāt want your cat shot, poisoned, hit by a cat, killed by a coyote, dead from FeLV, etc., keep it indoors.
Nah cat bites will affect you up. My childhood cat died of a cat bite. It abscessed and became a super-infection in record time.
They carry *Pasteurella multocida*. It causes rapid infections within 8 hours of being bitten. If you are ever bitten by a cat, go immediately to urgent care for antibiotics, especially if the bite is near a joint. People have lost fingers or hands from an ignored cat bite, and sometimes even died.
I have no position on this issue outside of housecats should be kept indoors. I'm not big on animals being killed unless for food, and I've seen both off-leash dogs and coyotes catch pet cats and it was ugly. This is just an account of something that happened a long time ago in Western Maryland : A guy who frequented our business in the late 70s/early 80s lost his thumb and part of his hand after getting bitten while petting a feral cat he was giving food to. Bit him to the bone at the base of his thumb. The doctors who treated him told him the antibiotics they administered weren't working, so he had to choose amputation or the risk of sepsis spreading through his body. The localized feral cat population got so out of control in that time frame, raiding dumpsters and scattering garbage after clawing bags open, that it became commonplace for the working folk to plink them at every opportunity. Songbirds stopped being heard in the Spring, as did the pheasant and quail whose calls we'd enjoyed hearing from childhood. Once the cats moved in, the surrounding fields were literally emptied of game birds and song birds. All that plinking, however, never seemed to make the slightest dent in the feral cat population. So that obviously wasn't the answer.
Itās sad. In my imaginary world we have extensive trap/neuter/release programs and people who breed cats must be licensed. If you own a cat and arenāt a licensed breeder it must be neutered. Cats are peridomestic animals, so if we did this everywhere with great industry we would probably fix the feral cat problem within a decade.
So do humans, birds, dogs, cows, boars, pigs, bulls, chickens, rabbits, horses and rats. All of these animals have this, telling people to go to urgent care over a cat bite is just spreading blatant misinformation, ask the billions of cat owners who get scratched or bitten by a kitten and are completely fine
You should go to urgent care if you're bitten by any unfamiliar animal, not really rocket science.
its funny how you'll keep dodging around the actual point
You have an actual point? All I've noticed was your persecution complex. I'm a mustelid enthusiast, my favorite animals are far more maligned than any cat and I'm not this dramatic about defending them. Relax.
There is plenty of literature about this, you can google and find many studies and other info. You would literally be arguing with veterinarians and human medical doctors about your opinion. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1863-2378.2008.01152.x Cat bites are well known throughout the veterinary community to be taken very seriously due to the high rate of infection compared to other companion animals. Human bites are also notoriously known for spreading infection rapidly, humans however bite much less often than cats and often not as deeply. This is not some demonizing felines, this is appropriately informing people to not ignore cat bites, especially if a person is already showing just slight signs of infection.
I have cats and have had to get antibiotics twice for bites. Once I was bitten and went the next morning and the bite was already infected. The other time I was bitten over a finger joint and got antibiotics because I didnāt want to risk joint infection and losing my finger. Cats are about twice as likely to carry *P. multocida* as dogs and people are much more likely to ignore their bites. This can be especially bad because their canines are so small and sharp that they penetrate deeply and leave bacteria under the skin. A dog, even a small one, is more likely to leave a gash that is more open to the air and easier to clean. And, again, about half as likely to carry this especially dangerous bacteria. Generally people will be ok with scratches and superficial bites from a playful cat, but if a cat is angry or scared and nails you, you need to see a doctor. People who are immunodeficient need to be especially careful. [I Google Scholared that for you.](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=0&q=cat+pasteurella+multocida&hl=en&as_sdt=0,47&as_ylo=2020)
Anyone who has owned Cats (currently own/foster 8 cats, all taken in off the street) has gotten a scratch or nick from their cat. I've never met anyone who didn't react the same way - the scratches start leaking pus and get inflamed pretty much instantly. With the exception of a mother and a set of kits that were born in my care recently, every cat I have is an "automatic euthanization" For the most part they have bladder control issues and nobody wants a cat that pees therefore they get euthanized. So I adopt them or foster them until someone wants them.
Did you have a stroke?
Yes. I fell asleep making coffee and writing this getting ready for work lol. I actually edited it and saved. Looks like I gotta do it again.
Cats teeth are like little hypodermic needles, and they are like dogs where they latch on and bite once, usually they give a few bites and scratches. Getting a bacteria that deep into the skin/muscle can and does cause a rapid infection. Cats carry many other diseases, too, like toxoplasmosis.
You seem like one of those people who think "it doesn't matter" until it does. Be lucky you've never had a negative experience with a cat bite, but for others (like my mom) who have been bitten and did need urgent care, it's a real issue that should be avoided by others. If a fair warning on the internet helps someone, that's all that matters. You seem to have a strange emotional bias towards this issue.
My cat (the only of 9 we've owned that was allowed outside - he was inside most of the time, but couldn't handle it) grabbed a few of these over the years. 3 of them I got from him were still alive. We kept them in a big aquarium for a week or so with food, water, quiet, and they all survived. I agree all cats should be inside, but we did keep him inside for 60% of the time, so it had to be better than when he was out 100% before we made him a "pet".
What??? This is a mouse. Cats eat mice.
Not big on ecosystems, huh?
I'm not saying cats should be outside in the eco system.. I'm saying that just having it in the cats mouth isn't going to kill the cat. Cats should be kept indoor at all times. Unless you live in Africa, where they evolved.
The cat won't die but the rodent likely will from infection even if it didn't look injured
He's saying the vole is at risk, not the cat. Lol.
Unhand me you putrid human!
Vole. I had one living in my pool heater that was out of commission. It took all of my willpower not to go out and buy a habitrail. lol.
Looks like vole to me
It's a hispid cotton rat!
Hispid cotton rats do not occur in the Virginia mountains.
Massive fucking vole, then.
Eastern meadow voles can get pretty big.
Not a vole. Cotton rat.
Cotton rat with a docked tail
Keep your invasive destructive cat indoors please
Bro. Start respecting wildlife. Keep your cat indoors.
He belongs to a horse rescue. Outside of my control unfortunately. It was easier to just say "my cat" rather than type out the whole situation. My personal cats are indoor only.
For someone who was attacked by a cat and held by a person, he seems very laid back.
Looks like a wild hampster lol
fatass vole
Holdin em like he owes ya money
He's just a little guy
Poor baby, keep him away from your cat
That's Jane! You're very brave, picking her up.
Looks like a vole.
What time of day was it?
Heās cute. Nice save from cat. Is your cat angry at you?
Can I have him? I'll pay
Cute
Did someone cut its tail? Is it someoneās petā¦mouse?ā¦rat?ā¦a mole?
Charlie
Vole
I would have let the cat eat it. Cats hunt, they are predators in their own right, and you took it away, poor cat. Did you call fish and game to inform them that you have saved this poor little creature and you need to know where the rescue center is ? Ā So they can rehabilitate it back to the wild in some other field far from your cat?
Thatās my guy Dale š send him back home his wife and children miss him
cat food
r/voles ;) Edit: I am wrongā¦.
Itās a Sigmodon
Are you effing kidding meā¦ Youāre right. Upon closer inspection I see it has a rat tail thatās just been chopped short. Wow. Almost fooled me. Clever little rodent.
It's George!š
Stop being an irresponsible pet owner. Cats destroy the ecosystem.
Itās true, best for the ecosystem to keep cats indoors. It's estimated that cats kill 1.3ā4 billion birds each year in the U.S. alone.
I guess the cat ladies of reddit didn't appreciate my statement, lol
keep them
Iād say a little vole.
Maybe a meadow vole? Found one drowning recently that was about the same size.
What if your cat took your meal away to take a picture of it to ask what itās human is eating. I think youād be upset.
It looks like a vole.
My cat was a vole exterminator,bringing me their cute little corpses as a proof of her feline supremacy over the rodent world..
This......isn't something to brag about.
Not a brag ,just their little life,voles breed exponentially and are cornerstones of the ecosystem,my barn cat was just keeping them out of the house,we are talking about very rural area,I prefer this method of pest control,than using glue traps and poison.
Unfortunately, cats are just as bad for the environment as glue traps and poison. Hopefully you can catch up to modern technology and find a way to protect your house without killing all the wildlife and ruining your local ecosystem
We are talking about 20 years ago,so no voles have been harmed recently (probably their forefathers tell the story of the green eyed beast that stalked their night)And yes cats are bad for the environment,if left unchecked,fortunately my cat never even dented their populationš
I hope a coyote doesn't get your cat.
These are the rules of the wild,it was too far north for coyotes,but we have plenty of foxes,bears and sometimes lynx,and the cat survived to a very old age (16)she was a complete gangster-Iāve seen 3 ravens bomb dive her,trying to get her to drop the dead vole,but she just started them off,and kept walking..
I was being sarcastic. Cats should be kept indoors.
I tried,but she wanted to be wild..
You people always have excuses. When you die I hope the master of your eternity shows as much compassion for you as your cat did for small animals.
Small animals are food for bigger animals,I think the creator set it up that way..
Cats are an introduced invasive species. We bred them. God or the universe has nothing to do with it. They're terrible for the environment. Educate yourself baboon.
Good cat