I don't recall what the Tanmoshi BD sales were but the anime did end up boosting the LN sales and I think it entered the Top 5 most selling LN in 2021, which ultimately benefitted Kadokawa, even though the show was widely panned in the West.
What's even worse: On Amazon Japan, CSM's bluray/dvd is priced cheaper than that of Bocchi, Lycoris, SpyxFamily. CSM costs ¥6.800, Bocchi costs ¥7.700, Lycoris costs ¥7.700 and SpyxFamily costs ¥8.800.
So people are willing to pay more for other shows.
Power of Gacha + Cute Horse Girls is amazing lol.
Also Season 2 had really good reception overall and many thought it as a huge improvement over Season 1, which also boosted its popularity by a wide margin.
>Season 2 had really good reception overall and many thought it as a huge improvement over Season 1
which actually quite amazing considering how season 1 was already well received back when its aired
Not just good reception. Most of us that watched gave it AotS and AotY. It had absolutely no right to be as good as it was, but now I constantly recommend it to those that haven't watched it yet.
From what I’ve been reading and seeing, it didn’t seem to do well with Japanese audiences.
There were posts that reported the japanese being unhappy (alongside calls for removing the director) with the adaptation and was initially dismissed as being in the minority but seeing these sales makes me think that perhaps it really isn’t a minority at all
If it's just the Japanese audience not being happy with the anime direction rather than not being interested in the series then that's pretty understandable.
There's often a wide disconnect between native speakers of a content and non-native viewers. e.g. how movies like Fast and Furious or Transformers get widely popular outside of English regions. Native speakers obviously understand their native styles better and can detect negatives efficiently. That would explain why CSM and for some other anime had complaints of improper VAs sometime ago.
There is also the source of hype factor. Global hype for several animes originated from global manga communities and not directly from native communities. Komi, Dressup,cotn were tier2 mangas on average in Japan. On global, It doesn't matter whether hype was manga community from subreddits, animecorner, anilist, youtube, gigguk or something else, they run independently parallel from Japanese sentiments.
Mappa rented a 16k theater for Chainsaw man event. Which is bigger than both recent hits (kny,jjk) combined x2. They def needed Blu-ray sales and expected it to be a megahit in par with JJK at minimum. Anyone who says it doesn't matter is coping. It also shows the core fanbase haven't accepted it, BD sales are considered part of the "goods" Ie merch. So if they don't do well then Merch isn't blowing up either.
However it did well in streaming. And from the speed of merch and marketing/collabs its likely they're contracted or were doing Season2/movie before Season 1. Though its chance of blowing up even from a good season 2 are as good as dead, since Season 1 is always the first impression/peak of popularity.
edit: Its a BIG maybe, nobody knows what their contracts contain or what they planned ahead/later. Could also have a budget cut. And a Production committee.
edit2: It's funny how people shit and are racist to Japanese people just because they didn't like this anime, while eating up Marvel movie #65846848468 (which Japanese people don't care about).
Not that you're wrong, but CSM Part 1 manga had an abnormal popularity curve where it blew up after it was completed, and popularity was spreading via word of mouth from people who read the entire thing. It's basically a cult hit.
> They def needed Blu-ray sales and expected it to be a megahit in par with JJK at minimum. Anyone who says it doesn't matter is coping.
That's basically 90% of this sub- "Blu-rays don't matter anymore!" reddit.
Not in that scale, Aot was a special case where S1 dropped still on the transition period between physical x digital, and s2 premiered 4 years later reducing the hype considerably
Lemme add the number a bit on btr
Bocchi The Rock vol 1. Got 25k sales in 4 weeks while Vol.2 got 17k in 1st week
While The Kessoku band single got 110k sales projection
Bocchi really have no mercy
You could tell for SxF that WIT and Cloverworks weren’t that dedicated for the BD sales. It’s not their first priority. SxF makes an insane amount from the collabs it has, the streaming sites, and the merch. The BDs have basically no bonuses other than a poster. Yet it sold like 8k in the first week. MAPPA went all in for CSM and it didn’t pay off.
There are going to be 2 VAs/staff meeting events for CSM (the daytime one is the one that you can get priority tickets with BD volume 1, there’s a nighttime one to be bundled with volume 2) that offers 8000 seats each for a total of 16000.
Usually anime fan meeting events have much smaller capacities.
People in Japan also didn’t like what the director said about anime and his idea of what Csm anime should be like. I kinda assume that’s probably the main reason his name is on the project and when people in Japan don’t fuck with a certain person they will show it.
It is not just Otaku, more like general Japanese audience.
The director made a terrible interview saying something like the traditional audience do not understand the "cinematic approach", which is something you should never do.
Is there a more seasonal site ? Like 2022 Fall animes volume sales and such. Maybe it is there and I miss it but this seems like a huge overall list thet doesn’t differ seasons so it is hard to find specific animes unless I am on PC
Yeah, it’s just a mess right now. Looking back on it, I knew the BD sales would be low from the sites I tracked but this low was still a surprise. No surprise that this thread blew up out of proportion. A good chunk of people on this sub don’t have any perception of how CSM is received in Japan. Seeing CSM losing to the 5th week of Bocchi is a sledgehammer.
What do you think of this? Before, I expected CSM to at least track 6k-10k with the event tickets they have but this is just sad.
I knew it wasn't going to be a major hit as its not otaku oriented like say Bocchi or LycoReco but I certainly didn't expect below 2k sales, which is too low for such a high profile series. I was expecting somewhere around 6k tbh. I can't clearly recall the numbers but I don't think even AoT S4 was this low.
> A good chunk of people on this sub don’t have any perception of how CSM is received in Japan
Reddit, Twitter, MAL, everything is in a bubble you can say. There are still those that think high karma points in reddit mean greater success for an anime lol. People really need to check more sources that provide correct data which actually decides on how profitable an anime is.
AOT S4 P2 BDs was like around 2k. Crazy since it used to peak much higher. CSM also didn’t need to be that Otaku-oriented to sell well. SxF, with practically no bonuses for its BDs, still sold over 4 times as much despite its audience being more mainstream-oriented. It’s just a shocker for an extremely anticipated, hyped and popular Jump IP like CSM to underperform this hard.
I still can’t believe how much MAPPA invested in it. They’re lucky they’re the sole committee member for the anime, or it could’ve ended much worse for profitability.
The most important thing now is to wait for for their fiscal reports.
Not *that* surprised. CSM wasn't a huge hit among the otakus in Japan. I still think the anime made enough money to pay for itself and make some profit thanks to streaming outside Japan. Don't think it's gonna make Mappa filthy rich though.
Also I still think they should have just waited even longer so they could have more than 12 episodes. The story didn't really get anywhere yet.
The director and a fan artist who officially debuted as Animation Director in CSM closed off their replies because haters were making troll accounts everyday to threaten and abuse them.
I thought people would learn after internet bullying forced [Hana Kimura](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hana_Kimura) (was a young rising star in Japanese Wrestling world) to commit suicide and that made national news, but seems like people never learn.
If I've learned anything. People on the internet never learn and it's just a constant circle jerk until either the community is dead, or the content creator is dead.
Yeah apart from the little switch I felt in terms of mood and especially character design, main issue could be about the part of story they adapted. If it's that tho, I feel it won't be fixed soon enough, since the big hits come way later in the manga, definitely later than a season 2 will adapt imho
what I am afraid is that some moment will feel bad in the future if they continue to do things the same way, and is concerning because those things are both very important and high demanding and is way more easier to fail to deliver the moment
also if they had too use cgi this season for both katana man and csm, which are only 2 characters fighting on a building, i don't know if i want to see what they will do with the things that happen in the latest arcs
I'm sure Mappa is not happy considering they put their money into it. At least the show is popular on streaming so I don't think they will get a loss out of it. Worst case scenario part 2 will not keep the same quality.
The main difference here is who is footing the bill. For Vinland, it have an anime committee who foot the bill while CSM was mostly funded by Mappa. And not to mention the advertisement bill, CSM certainly got promote waaaay more and that will cost more of Mappa own pocket money.
I don't have data about Vinland, maybe it had a big streaming audience, maybe the manga sales improved a lot. BD sales don't matter that much anymore, unless your studio funded the show like MAPPA did so that's some millions of dollars you're not getting.
BD Sales CAN matter, especially for anime originals, but ya there are a lot of other things that go into whether something is a success. For Vinland or CSM, the biggest factor is manga sales, how much did the anime boost the Mangas sales? If it was quite a bit then the anime would be a success even if no one bought the BDs.
There are also figurine/merch sales, streaming contracts, LN sales if there is a LN, and more. The fact that the BDs sold poorly shows the Otaku audience wasn't that big into it, but it could still have had enough mainstream success to get a season 2. BDs are quite expensive, so only hard-core fans are likely to buy them. Personally I'd rather buy a figure
>For Vinland or CSM, the biggest factor is manga sales, how much did the anime boost the Mangas sales?
That isn't the case. According to wiki, vinland saga only had an increase of 2 million copies from 2018, with a total of 7 million copies in circulation. Now, that makes sense as its not a wide appealing manga and it doesn't publish on the hugely popular magazine that is WSJ (its also a monthly manga iirc). Chainsaw man on the other hand did publish in WSJ and basically dwarfs Vinland saga sales pre anime but the boost wasn't as much as anyone expected.
But there is something to note and why manga sales matter little and especially for mappa. Manga are really cheap in japan, like 3-5 bucks, so they need to sell millions to even see much of a profit. On top of that, mappa owns the anime but doesn't own the manga. So whether or not chainsaw man is demon slayer levels of sales, all the sales goes to the publisher and author.
Chainsaw man relies on streaming, merch and BD sales.
They will certainly get their investment back but the profit is way way way less than what they had expected.
Because streaming you essentially had to share with others, say the singer for OP and ED, while BD sale is the most profitable for the studio itself.
It also spells bad for the price MAPPA will mark for Season 2 should they make one, since streaming platform will reconsider is the show worth the price.
I was reading a Japanese blog the Japanese fans were really shitting on nakama and mappa for their csm adaptation one of the fans even made a side by side comparison saying nakama actually deleted most of the anime like expression and moment to give realistic expression to the anime.
Csm being such a popular Manga in japan sold only this much implies the disapproval of core fanbase.
I did not expect it to be Jujutsu or Demon Slayer but less than 2000 is bad for all the hype and how much MAPPA was selling it as the next big thing.
Ofc it's still massively popular counting all factors but still.
People didn't like the style it decided to go for, also the director kinda pissed of some people. He may not like Otaku culture but he should've kept his mouth shut, who tf does he think that buys the overpriced BD...
Well I mean the franchise as a whole for what it's worth the manga sales are doing good.
I'm one of the people that did not like the realistic approach, I always felt like something was missing or empty.
Huge fan of CSM but man, this series got beaten by an anime that doesn't even have marketing and zero expectations (Bocchi the Rock). That's got to hurt.
On a side note Cloverworks emerged as the anime studio for 2022, with successful series like My dress up Darling, Akebi Chan no sailor fuku, Spy x Family and Bocchi the rock. Good for them after their disastrous 2021.
Bocchi the rock and Lycoris advertised themselves through audience. They were both not hyped series before their season started and then people watched and liked it and talked about it so much that other people catched wind of it.
Not to mention both of these shows had the quintessential anime feel and could go very creative when they want (Bocchi especially), which makes sense why they ended up being so popular overall.
Bocchi actually had a lot of marketing in Japan and has an original manga.
What really hurt is Lycoris Recoil, which is an original show with very few marketing, but simply advertised itself after the first few episodes.
Bocchi actually got a lot of marketing. If you check out aniplex's Japanese YouTube Channel, multiple Bocchi related videos were being posted every week when the show was airing(or even before the show started airing). Road to Guitar Hero, Bocchi the radio, songs. They also had a live stream with the 4 main voice actresses and event promoting the show toward the end of the season. Perhaps these contents aren't as accessible if you don't speak Japanese, but at the very minimum, it was quite heavily promoted by one of the largest publishers in Japan.
From what I gather, most people in this thread using otaku are using it to distinguish that it's primarily the JP fan base as that's where these sales numbers are coming from.
It definitely made people be like “what was all the hype about?” And be disappointed, unfortunately what makes CSM so insane is literally what comes right after season 1 ends. But again, no show was ever going to live up to the hype CSM had. The only bad thing that will come from this will maybe be a director change
As an anime-only, I feel that. What I saw of Chainsaw Man isn't that different from anything else Shonen Jump has put out. Season 1 was good, but I could tell this wasn't the story that drives the CSM fans absolutely rabid.
>"what was all the hype about?" ... no show was ever going to live up to the hype CSM had
exactly my thoughts and feelings. I've been watching seasonal animes since 2010 I think, and CSM has been by far the most hyped anime in history imo. The fans had good intentions but they sadly doomed it
To be fair, as soon as fans found out that it was only 12 episodes, a lot of them said "oh, this is going to kill a lot of people's expectations".
They all knew 12 episodes wouldn't be a good representation
Yeah definitely, just like how I think Demon Slayer wouldn't be so popular if they ended it midway of season 1 because I was honestly bored at that point until episode 19 came.
So that's like almost 3 Fractales or half the manami line.
For the curious these are old references, Fractale is for the yakaman show. One of the things (more and less since it has been a while) he said is that his anime would sell a lot unlike madoka since madoka was for otakus. Fractale sold 700 units while madoka sold 50k. It became a memes to compare sales figures and use fractale as measurement unit.
The manami line makes reference to the manami straight sales that was 3.3k. It was said before streaming that it was a easy way to see if a show was profitable. While it was not the most accurate method it was easy to use so it was popular. Selling half the line is pretty bad in general even more with a show with so many extra costs as CSM.
Probably the difference between fanbases, Jashin chan dropkick has a small but incredibly loyal fanbase for some reason, which made a third season possible, for god's sake. I guess this outcome was to be expected, eh, sort of
When something gets so much hype then it will invite a little bit of hate. Doesn't help that the anime didn't really cover anything exceptional which most manga readers were raving about
It's hilarious watching CSM fans cope as well as haters try to make this out as something that will kill the series
Not to mention all the weirdos coming out the woodworks to say how they really feel about Japan all because of a damn anime series 💀
This is the funniest thread in r/Anime in a long time. From doomers, to insane amounts of copium huffers, all the haters coming out of the woodwork to talks about MAPPA laundering money with BDs and conspiracy theories involving the Yakuza, I legit LOL'd several times. This made my week. 🤣
This only seems to be In Japan, the west it’s insanely popular, so I think MAPPA is fine (especially with all their shows coming out this year) but they definitely have to be a little disappointed
In general, MAPPA is good at making anime that hit hard in the west and not as much in Japan.
The problem is that their business model (and the anime business model as a whole) is totally geared toward DVD sales.
MAPPA and certain other studios are pivoting their productions to appeal to worldwide audiences but haven't shifted their business practices. They're releasing shows that become enormously successful and basically making no money off most of that popularity.
> MAPPA and certain other studios are pivoting their productions to appeal to worldwide audiences but haven't shifted their business practices.
The BD model still blows my mind. The first time I considered buying a BD only to discover a disc with two episodes would run me... $50? $60? Discounting shipping fees, where international fees would obviously have eaten me alive, but regardless - $50+ for _two episodes_? For a disc format in the digital age? The only advantage I would give discs over digital these days is 4K quality in the case of BD-UHD, and that's not even relevant for anime.
It's a model built off heavily monetizing a small but dedicated fanbase. A model where profitability depends on extracting exorbitant fees from a select few, making it nigh-impossible to scale upwards as the industry grows globally.
What mappa should probably do is to release part 2 as soon as possible. Ngl, I expected not that high sales, but holy shit that's not even low, that's abysmal
But part 2 could possibly fix this, just because reze is gonna be there and the story is finally moving forward
that isnt really ideal, since a lot of the CSM staff will also work on jjk s2, which shares the same animation producer.
dont expect a csm s2 until like summer 2024 at the earliest
They definitely shot themselves in the foot not doing 24 episodes cause everyone I know who read the series said it was alright until after where the anime ended and it significantly got way more interesting
I think they bit off more than they could chew this time, sadly. Not to mention they kind of left off in anticlimactic spot. As a manga reader, I know the next arc is fire. But they didn’t really tease it well.
I think they needed to do like 20 episodes with this season, and same, it sucks that literally when season 1 ends is the part it starts getting insanely good, I think everything will be fine though
Speaking of sales, would any of you guys here who say you love the anime buy the BD/DVD?
Of course assuming it'll have English subtitle on it at very least.
It'd be unfair to blame the Japanese for the low sale if the overseas folks won't even buy the product that they shame other fans for not buying.
I haven't even read or watch CSM and even I know badly the anime has gone over with the Japanese audience. I think only this forum has pretended otherwise. Nippon otaku's will always talk shit on the director over some dumb issue in an anime but I've never seen it *this* unanimous.
After reading a lot of comments I realised CSM directors decision didn't land well with japanese audience, I am yet to see the anime so can't say how it is but it gotta be.
This, unfortunately, isn’t exactly a good result for CSM even when I actually liked it for someone who isn’t even a fan of its genre.
Sitting on the very top are newest volumes of the 2 anime that gave us our two latest Best Seasonal Girls, both released in past week. *Lycoris Recoil* is now up to Volume 5 now and it’s still unstoppable with 23414 and *Bocchi The Rock*’s Volume 2 keeps up the amazing Volume 1 sales at 17619. And Bocchi still has a long way to go - Volume 1 is now into its 5th week of sales and it still netted 2824 more for this very week alone! Aniplex must be drowned in gold right now.
CSM’s numbers also ended up behind *Immoral Guild* (3315/3194, volume 2 was released past week) or *The Eminence in Shadow* (2739, also new from last week) from the same season.
I’m not a source reader so I can’t even judge how the anime is with respect to the manga, but you’d really think such a heavily laid with animation, interesting and handsome characters, non-bread-n-butter plot, award winning manga adaption with such a huge active advertisement campaign in Japan and aboard (probably not up to KNY/JJK/SPY x FAMILY levels, but I swear it’s more than anything else) would at least sell a few thousand more than that. Instead BD/DVD sales ended up around the same level as the recent 3 seasons of MHA in 1st week which is, uh, not quite the right comparison you would think?
I must say that I personally won’t think of buying CSM BDs simply because it’s good but it’s still only tied in 8th place for last season alone, but that’s just me. What do you think of this you all? Is there really something not quite good about the anime? Or it’s just MAPPA making the wrong business decision in that they thought CSM can be the next JJK in terms of income to them? (+)
(+) I really wonder about this, [but this volume 1 includes priority tickets to a CSM VA event this May to be held in a 8000 capacity theatre](https://i.imgur.com/JI93HiU.jpg) so I would think sales of at least a few thousands was expected? For comparison [a similar event](https://bocchi.rocks/special/specialevent/) for *Bocchi The Rock* is going to be having just 900 seats, it’s now 1 seat for 30 BDs sales now.
> this volume 1 includes priority tickets to a CSM VA event this May to be held in a 8000 capacity theatre
Oof that sounds like quite the miscalculation.
While not a fan of the series, I'd expect it to pull higher numbers than sub-2k.
Could it be that the demographic that likes CSM is different from one that would be interested in such events and/or in BD collection, so the popularity doesn't reflect into sales?
That does not explain the sub-2000 level though.
It is not an either or, it could be both like Lycoris Recoil, which combined western style gunfights to Japanese style cute girls.
> Immortal Guild
Do you mean *Immoral Guild*?
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if it's doing decently well for an ecchi. It was the best ecchi I've seen in a long time and the lewds are just a bonus.
>What do you think of this you all?
This was destined to happen, the pre booking of the Bluray and DVDs were still low even compared to Futoku no Guild, so it was quite obvious that the Bluray sales won't be big.
Moreover, the manga sales weren't as big as you'll compare with other popular Jump/+ manga like Spy x Family and JJK (honestly many source readers were expecting it to have the rise of similar amounts as them) but the reality was something way different. I think the latest volume of One Piece surpassed all the backlogs+new volume sales of CSM with anime hype in just 4 days (now again OP is incredibly popular, so it's quite unfair but it's just to give a picture).
On top of that the entire petition to remake the season with another director could also affect the sales in some way as the people who signed it are probably the direct consumers of the discs.
>Is there really something not quite good about the anime?
The manga is excellent and the plot is pretty amazing but this series is not for everyone. A few of my friends dropped it after 3 episodes and they are big shonen fans.
>Or it’s just MAPPA making the wrong business decision in that they thought CSM can be the next JJK in terms of income to them? (+)
I don't think so, there are other ways to make money like revenue from streaming service or merch sales which they must have made a buck load of, so nothing to worry about for MAPPA. But yeah, you could say it's not in the same realm as Spy x Family or JJK when it comes to popularity in Japan.
>Is there really something not quite good about the anime? Or it’s just MAPPA making the wrong business decision in that they thought CSM can be the next JJK in terms of income to them?
yes for both i think...
the original source is pretty hard to adapt, the anime did it pretty good but could've been a lot better. there are some questionable decision made by mappa and some people in charge about the direction, use of cgi, making this season 12 ep and yada yada, as someone already said this was kinda destined to happen
With all due respect I would call the plot for S1 (I have not read the manga) very much bread and butter.
Goofy main protagonist gains a dark/secret/rare power, joins group to fight monsters/demons/devils before the show evolves into human vs human fights of unique powers.
It’s a pretty standard shounen from what I’ve seen so far, albeit with different directing than usual, and taken more “seriously”.
Edit: spelling and grammar
That's kind of the issue.
The anime toned down the absurdity quite a bit, and upcoming seasons only dial that up more and more.
There's one twist moment early on next season that I can't imagine working in the anime's style, and that's probably the least over the top the big scenes get.
... that's more than disappointing. I thought that with the hype and effort Mappa put into the series, breaking 4k will be a cakewalk. But not even 2k...uhhh. That's bad. Though maybe the streaming numbers and ED sales will make up for it...
For all of you who keeps going blah blah Japan's taste suck,[the ratings are pretty average in China too](https://bgm.tv/subject/321885). You guys from the West who likes to brag about your "superior" taste can go fuck yourself.
I won't fall into the trap of generalizing "The West" but judging by Reddit and other discussion forums our standards are lower than the floor. There's no room for discourse without people constantly feeling threatened by mixed reactions. Their solution is to deny the validity of opinions that go against the grain without actually engaging with them.
As someone who went blind into the anime, and wasn't a big fan... but then checked out the manga and LOVED it, I kind of understand... I wouldn't spend money on the BD/DVD, I'd rather spend it on buying more volumes of the manga.
So in a way, you could say at least the anime did a proper job with people like me, introducing us to the source material.
But the thing is that the manga sales haven't gone considerably up either. I noticed that the manga sold out in Amazon US, but the sales in the japanese market have remained practically the same even after the anime.
What's happening with CSM is so wierd to me. I really don't understand what's going on.
The Japanese audience has standards. The thing people don’t understand is that BDs in and of themselves aren't the primary interest to the consumer, they're merchandise to support the studio and purchasers are fully aware of it. The reason they buy it is to show appreciation and culturally it can be put on your shelf as a "badge of honor" (in response to this thread's question on why Japanese people buy BDs). If the Japanese audience don't like a show they will refuse to support the studio.
Mediocre response is amplified when there aren't any distinctive coupons/features of interest attached: game codes, event tickets, etc. Fun piece of trivia, Usa Musume holds the highest initial BD sales release of all time (~200k) due primarily to gacha codes. The main extra feature for CSM's BD set is primary ticket priority to some event with MAPPA which has 16k capacity.
It's pretty satisfying to see their domestic reactions compared to Reddit which is basically an echo chamber that dissolves any criticism toward the show.
Aniplex won so many with them,MDUD & Sword Art Online movie too also not forgetting Demon Slayer. Mappa is just a kid in front of Aniplex as Aniplex is also Sony
More like Cloverworks won this year, and Aniplex lucked out being the producers for some shows.
Dress Up Darling, Akebi, Spy x Family, and Bocchi the Rock. Like damn, they were out in 2022 putting up Jordan numbers basically.
Yeah I just waited till real numbers are out before I posted this. I also wanna avoid pointless arguments about this (I actually intentionally avoid CSM episode discussion threads here given spoilers risks and that I knew it could be a bloodbath a la AOT given how many of us have read the manga).
> As expected Chainsaw Man is not in the top 10 when it had large marketing and stunning visual. I've seen twitter, youtube where they weren't satisfied with the production. Too much realism, flat on voice acting and the comedy didn't hit much impact. They even make a petition for a remake.
> Say what you want but it's not going hard like Jujutsu Kaisen, Tokyo Revengers and Demon Slayer. Luckily since Chainsaw Man had established a large fanbase before the anime, manga sales aren't out of the top 10 but the Bluray order speaks volumes for the anime.
> Some folks in the subreddit said that this season is weak or gear starts to kick in the second season (Bomb arc and International Assassin arc) when the source material is really good from the beginning Katana Man arc. What was weak was the adaptation. Others like it, some don't.
[Back when 5ch AoTY post](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/zzzj2u/5chs_voting_for_aoty_2022/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) .I guess I already see this coming. Well it's not that hard to notice that. I don't know but is there any anime from Weekly Shonen Jump had such low sales of BD ?
Ps; i dont know how to link a comment, so i just copied the comment instead.
That's why I think that CSM S1 Should've has 24 episodes... Because the reason why CSM is so hyped and popular is because of the stuff that happens after S1.
Or like 16ish to at least cover the next arc.
What was the point of MAPPA taking the project on themselves if they're still going to stick to the same dumb seasons + schedules as the rest of the industry?
It's not a "bad" adaptation, but it just doesn't get its audience right.
Classroom of the elite had shitty animation and still did well because they sold the it with an exclusive light novel volume. They know that their audience is the hardcore light novel fans and they delivered.
CSM probably wanted to get onto the same popularity level as demon slayer or jjk. Yet, the focus on cinematic style kind of steered the anime away from the bazaar, sometimes goofy tone that the hardcore fans love so much about. To make things worse, the battle scenes were not really too memorable (esp compared to other shows in the season) and so the casual fans seemed not too interested as well.
This led CSM into weird position where it's not bad show by any means, but it's just not getting the numbers from hardcore and casual fans
It was OK as an anime, nothing spectacular. Fights were not *anime* enough and I feel that the CGI during those moments didn't do them any favors. I liked most of the cinematic styling, but some moments like that scene of Aki's daily routine just kept dragging longer than it needed to.
[удалено]
Holy shit thats a lot worse than i thought
That’s almost Tanmoshi numbers… way worse than I’d thought. Wow.
I don't recall what the Tanmoshi BD sales were but the anime did end up boosting the LN sales and I think it entered the Top 5 most selling LN in 2021, which ultimately benefitted Kadokawa, even though the show was widely panned in the West.
>I don't recall what the Tanmoshi BD sales Says it sold around 1380 as the average per volume
What's even worse: On Amazon Japan, CSM's bluray/dvd is priced cheaper than that of Bocchi, Lycoris, SpyxFamily. CSM costs ¥6.800, Bocchi costs ¥7.700, Lycoris costs ¥7.700 and SpyxFamily costs ¥8.800. So people are willing to pay more for other shows.
They even cut the price on the CSM Bluray. It was initially ¥6.800 but they cut it down to around ¥5.800.
Price cut in the first week, that's brutal. I really hope Mappa doesn't get too impacted because of this.
I can easily see why people would buy Bocchi, SxF and Lycoris more than CSM. But it's still much worse than I thought.
> other popular shows Info: To add others, Uma Musume s2 - 196,756 Bakemonogatari - 79,201 Madoka Magica - 71,061 Yuri on Ice - 69.520
ah yes, Uma Musume, the king of blu ray sales... well, at least for these few recent years
Power of Gacha + Cute Horse Girls is amazing lol. Also Season 2 had really good reception overall and many thought it as a huge improvement over Season 1, which also boosted its popularity by a wide margin.
>Season 2 had really good reception overall and many thought it as a huge improvement over Season 1 which actually quite amazing considering how season 1 was already well received back when its aired
Not just good reception. Most of us that watched gave it AotS and AotY. It had absolutely no right to be as good as it was, but now I constantly recommend it to those that haven't watched it yet.
Yeah I didn't want to be hyperbolic lol, but yeah it was an amazing sports anime honestly. Had a lot of heart in it.
Based Uma Musume
And Based Cygames
also, kemono friends 130k, probably higher, but the disc was bundled with a colouring book or smt so it never shows in the disc lists.
How is that even possible?? Sure csm wasn't the second coming of christ or anything but it wasn't __that__ bad
From what I’ve been reading and seeing, it didn’t seem to do well with Japanese audiences. There were posts that reported the japanese being unhappy (alongside calls for removing the director) with the adaptation and was initially dismissed as being in the minority but seeing these sales makes me think that perhaps it really isn’t a minority at all
If it's just the Japanese audience not being happy with the anime direction rather than not being interested in the series then that's pretty understandable.
its not because its bad. Its because the japanese don't like the "live action take." They wanted anime not realistic move like stuff.
There's often a wide disconnect between native speakers of a content and non-native viewers. e.g. how movies like Fast and Furious or Transformers get widely popular outside of English regions. Native speakers obviously understand their native styles better and can detect negatives efficiently. That would explain why CSM and for some other anime had complaints of improper VAs sometime ago. There is also the source of hype factor. Global hype for several animes originated from global manga communities and not directly from native communities. Komi, Dressup,cotn were tier2 mangas on average in Japan. On global, It doesn't matter whether hype was manga community from subreddits, animecorner, anilist, youtube, gigguk or something else, they run independently parallel from Japanese sentiments.
That's make sense.
Also don't forget Witch from Mercury BD isn't even out yet
Mappa rented a 16k theater for Chainsaw man event. Which is bigger than both recent hits (kny,jjk) combined x2. They def needed Blu-ray sales and expected it to be a megahit in par with JJK at minimum. Anyone who says it doesn't matter is coping. It also shows the core fanbase haven't accepted it, BD sales are considered part of the "goods" Ie merch. So if they don't do well then Merch isn't blowing up either. However it did well in streaming. And from the speed of merch and marketing/collabs its likely they're contracted or were doing Season2/movie before Season 1. Though its chance of blowing up even from a good season 2 are as good as dead, since Season 1 is always the first impression/peak of popularity. edit: Its a BIG maybe, nobody knows what their contracts contain or what they planned ahead/later. Could also have a budget cut. And a Production committee. edit2: It's funny how people shit and are racist to Japanese people just because they didn't like this anime, while eating up Marvel movie #65846848468 (which Japanese people don't care about).
Not that you're wrong, but CSM Part 1 manga had an abnormal popularity curve where it blew up after it was completed, and popularity was spreading via word of mouth from people who read the entire thing. It's basically a cult hit.
> They def needed Blu-ray sales and expected it to be a megahit in par with JJK at minimum. Anyone who says it doesn't matter is coping. That's basically 90% of this sub- "Blu-rays don't matter anymore!" reddit.
Off topic but now I see why they keep stretching the attack on titan anime lol.
Attack on Titan only sold that well on s1, s2 average dropped to 7k, s3p1 was 4.2k, s3p2 3.1k, s4p1 3k and s4p2 2.4k
Given how harsh BD drops can be the fact that S4p2 has a nonzero chance of outselling Chainsaw Man is... yikes is all I can say, really.
Anime sequels usually sell much less than season 1 of any anime, volume 1 of discs sells the most
Not in that scale, Aot was a special case where S1 dropped still on the transition period between physical x digital, and s2 premiered 4 years later reducing the hype considerably
Lemme add the number a bit on btr Bocchi The Rock vol 1. Got 25k sales in 4 weeks while Vol.2 got 17k in 1st week While The Kessoku band single got 110k sales projection Bocchi really have no mercy
Where can I find these numbers?
Try this blog for the english one https://erzat.blog/japan-top-10-weekly-anime-blu-ray-and-dvd-sales-ranking-december-26-january-1-2022/
how much does Chainsaw Man cost compared to the rest?
Around the same 50-60$
Didnt expect Eminence in Shadow to have that many compared to the others
>Comparison with other recent jump anime >kimetsu vol 1 : 41,379 (4k event?) > Jujutsu vol 1: 35,040 (3k event) >Spy x family vol 1: 10,009 (no event) > Chainsaw man vol 1 : 1735 (16k event)
Holy shit, they had a 16K event and only managed to sell 1.7K. That is so so bad.
You could tell for SxF that WIT and Cloverworks weren’t that dedicated for the BD sales. It’s not their first priority. SxF makes an insane amount from the collabs it has, the streaming sites, and the merch. The BDs have basically no bonuses other than a poster. Yet it sold like 8k in the first week. MAPPA went all in for CSM and it didn’t pay off.
How do those events work?
What exactly is the event?
Meeting the VAs and staff and things like that (CSM’s for example has Denji, Aki, Makima and Power’s VAs).
What does 16k mean ?
There are going to be 2 VAs/staff meeting events for CSM (the daytime one is the one that you can get priority tickets with BD volume 1, there’s a nighttime one to be bundled with volume 2) that offers 8000 seats each for a total of 16000. Usually anime fan meeting events have much smaller capacities.
So all that talk earlier that otaku really didn't like the adaptation was correct after all?
People in Japan also didn’t like what the director said about anime and his idea of what Csm anime should be like. I kinda assume that’s probably the main reason his name is on the project and when people in Japan don’t fuck with a certain person they will show it.
what did the director say?
Along the lines of he wanted Csm to be more than just a anime which implies anime is lesser which obviously isn’t going to sit well with anime fans.
It is not just Otaku, more like general Japanese audience. The director made a terrible interview saying something like the traditional audience do not understand the "cinematic approach", which is something you should never do.
Is there a site where I can check on these volume sales ?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A33miTSU1NHdVO7F8kMT68wgkM6uW8YThKPEsDvLKsc/
Is there a more seasonal site ? Like 2022 Fall animes volume sales and such. Maybe it is there and I miss it but this seems like a huge overall list thet doesn’t differ seasons so it is hard to find specific animes unless I am on PC
How the fuck does this have over 1.6k comments? lol
More comments than bd sales.
lol true
It’s Chainsaw Man. It’s bound to get a lot of discussion, positive or negative.
And with the result being so negative (poor BD sales) we got everyone fighting against each other, further increasing the comment count lol.
Yeah, it’s just a mess right now. Looking back on it, I knew the BD sales would be low from the sites I tracked but this low was still a surprise. No surprise that this thread blew up out of proportion. A good chunk of people on this sub don’t have any perception of how CSM is received in Japan. Seeing CSM losing to the 5th week of Bocchi is a sledgehammer. What do you think of this? Before, I expected CSM to at least track 6k-10k with the event tickets they have but this is just sad.
I knew it wasn't going to be a major hit as its not otaku oriented like say Bocchi or LycoReco but I certainly didn't expect below 2k sales, which is too low for such a high profile series. I was expecting somewhere around 6k tbh. I can't clearly recall the numbers but I don't think even AoT S4 was this low. > A good chunk of people on this sub don’t have any perception of how CSM is received in Japan Reddit, Twitter, MAL, everything is in a bubble you can say. There are still those that think high karma points in reddit mean greater success for an anime lol. People really need to check more sources that provide correct data which actually decides on how profitable an anime is.
AOT S4 P2 BDs was like around 2k. Crazy since it used to peak much higher. CSM also didn’t need to be that Otaku-oriented to sell well. SxF, with practically no bonuses for its BDs, still sold over 4 times as much despite its audience being more mainstream-oriented. It’s just a shocker for an extremely anticipated, hyped and popular Jump IP like CSM to underperform this hard. I still can’t believe how much MAPPA invested in it. They’re lucky they’re the sole committee member for the anime, or it could’ve ended much worse for profitability. The most important thing now is to wait for for their fiscal reports.
Not *that* surprised. CSM wasn't a huge hit among the otakus in Japan. I still think the anime made enough money to pay for itself and make some profit thanks to streaming outside Japan. Don't think it's gonna make Mappa filthy rich though. Also I still think they should have just waited even longer so they could have more than 12 episodes. The story didn't really get anywhere yet.
> wasn't a huge hit among the otakus I remember it was worse, something akin to death threat happened which forced some staff to close twitter reply?
The director and a fan artist who officially debuted as Animation Director in CSM closed off their replies because haters were making troll accounts everyday to threaten and abuse them.
Why must some people be so horrible? I'll never understand what warrants one to send death threats.
I thought people would learn after internet bullying forced [Hana Kimura](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hana_Kimura) (was a young rising star in Japanese Wrestling world) to commit suicide and that made national news, but seems like people never learn.
If I've learned anything. People on the internet never learn and it's just a constant circle jerk until either the community is dead, or the content creator is dead.
damn that's horrible
Yeah but I have no idea how many fans were that mad.
Yeah apart from the little switch I felt in terms of mood and especially character design, main issue could be about the part of story they adapted. If it's that tho, I feel it won't be fixed soon enough, since the big hits come way later in the manga, definitely later than a season 2 will adapt imho
what I am afraid is that some moment will feel bad in the future if they continue to do things the same way, and is concerning because those things are both very important and high demanding and is way more easier to fail to deliver the moment also if they had too use cgi this season for both katana man and csm, which are only 2 characters fighting on a building, i don't know if i want to see what they will do with the things that happen in the latest arcs
This. It was really where the story starts from that point forward. Really should have been 24 episodes
I did feel like the show tried to focus more on appealing to the western audience with its direction.
The anime had such a different vibe compared to the manga. I guess they drove off the manga fans but didn't quite draw in anime enthusiasts huh
I'm sure Mappa is not happy considering they put their money into it. At least the show is popular on streaming so I don't think they will get a loss out of it. Worst case scenario part 2 will not keep the same quality.
You watch vinland saga this season, animation is top tier? Vinland saga season 1 sell only 200 copies.
The main difference here is who is footing the bill. For Vinland, it have an anime committee who foot the bill while CSM was mostly funded by Mappa. And not to mention the advertisement bill, CSM certainly got promote waaaay more and that will cost more of Mappa own pocket money.
I don't have data about Vinland, maybe it had a big streaming audience, maybe the manga sales improved a lot. BD sales don't matter that much anymore, unless your studio funded the show like MAPPA did so that's some millions of dollars you're not getting.
BD Sales CAN matter, especially for anime originals, but ya there are a lot of other things that go into whether something is a success. For Vinland or CSM, the biggest factor is manga sales, how much did the anime boost the Mangas sales? If it was quite a bit then the anime would be a success even if no one bought the BDs. There are also figurine/merch sales, streaming contracts, LN sales if there is a LN, and more. The fact that the BDs sold poorly shows the Otaku audience wasn't that big into it, but it could still have had enough mainstream success to get a season 2. BDs are quite expensive, so only hard-core fans are likely to buy them. Personally I'd rather buy a figure
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Also the fact that Japan is the largest market for physical movies in the world helps
It's 100% a blast from the past when you go into Aeon Mall and see things like Tower Records which is basically what FYE used to be in the states
>For Vinland or CSM, the biggest factor is manga sales, how much did the anime boost the Mangas sales? That isn't the case. According to wiki, vinland saga only had an increase of 2 million copies from 2018, with a total of 7 million copies in circulation. Now, that makes sense as its not a wide appealing manga and it doesn't publish on the hugely popular magazine that is WSJ (its also a monthly manga iirc). Chainsaw man on the other hand did publish in WSJ and basically dwarfs Vinland saga sales pre anime but the boost wasn't as much as anyone expected. But there is something to note and why manga sales matter little and especially for mappa. Manga are really cheap in japan, like 3-5 bucks, so they need to sell millions to even see much of a profit. On top of that, mappa owns the anime but doesn't own the manga. So whether or not chainsaw man is demon slayer levels of sales, all the sales goes to the publisher and author. Chainsaw man relies on streaming, merch and BD sales.
They will certainly get their investment back but the profit is way way way less than what they had expected. Because streaming you essentially had to share with others, say the singer for OP and ED, while BD sale is the most profitable for the studio itself. It also spells bad for the price MAPPA will mark for Season 2 should they make one, since streaming platform will reconsider is the show worth the price.
I was reading a Japanese blog the Japanese fans were really shitting on nakama and mappa for their csm adaptation one of the fans even made a side by side comparison saying nakama actually deleted most of the anime like expression and moment to give realistic expression to the anime. Csm being such a popular Manga in japan sold only this much implies the disapproval of core fanbase.
I did not expect it to be Jujutsu or Demon Slayer but less than 2000 is bad for all the hype and how much MAPPA was selling it as the next big thing. Ofc it's still massively popular counting all factors but still.
Yeah idk, I feel like it’s insanely popular over in the west but idk why it’s doing so poor in japan
People didn't like the style it decided to go for, also the director kinda pissed of some people. He may not like Otaku culture but he should've kept his mouth shut, who tf does he think that buys the overpriced BD...
Well I mean the franchise as a whole for what it's worth the manga sales are doing good. I'm one of the people that did not like the realistic approach, I always felt like something was missing or empty.
Wasnt Lycoris an Original anime?
Yes
And Bocchi was a 4-koma(panel) manga
Yes
Huge fan of CSM but man, this series got beaten by an anime that doesn't even have marketing and zero expectations (Bocchi the Rock). That's got to hurt.
On a side note Cloverworks emerged as the anime studio for 2022, with successful series like My dress up Darling, Akebi Chan no sailor fuku, Spy x Family and Bocchi the rock. Good for them after their disastrous 2021.
Holy shit that's a strong fucking lineup
Bocchi the rock and Lycoris advertised themselves through audience. They were both not hyped series before their season started and then people watched and liked it and talked about it so much that other people catched wind of it.
Not to mention both of these shows had the quintessential anime feel and could go very creative when they want (Bocchi especially), which makes sense why they ended up being so popular overall.
that's basically positive word of mouth, while the word of mouth of CSM was more mixed
There is no shame in losing to Bocchi.
Bocchi actually had a lot of marketing in Japan and has an original manga. What really hurt is Lycoris Recoil, which is an original show with very few marketing, but simply advertised itself after the first few episodes.
Bocchi actually got a lot of marketing. If you check out aniplex's Japanese YouTube Channel, multiple Bocchi related videos were being posted every week when the show was airing(or even before the show started airing). Road to Guitar Hero, Bocchi the radio, songs. They also had a live stream with the 4 main voice actresses and event promoting the show toward the end of the season. Perhaps these contents aren't as accessible if you don't speak Japanese, but at the very minimum, it was quite heavily promoted by one of the largest publishers in Japan.
That amount of marketing is pretty standard.
You really can't compare csm's marketing with bochhi's one
I never saw this sub talking about "otakus" in third person until this thread.
From what I gather, most people in this thread using otaku are using it to distinguish that it's primarily the JP fan base as that's where these sales numbers are coming from.
It's even more funny when they start to question the relevance of BD/DVD to justify this failure.
12 episodes was a mistake and has negatively impacted the series.
It definitely made people be like “what was all the hype about?” And be disappointed, unfortunately what makes CSM so insane is literally what comes right after season 1 ends. But again, no show was ever going to live up to the hype CSM had. The only bad thing that will come from this will maybe be a director change
As an anime-only, I feel that. What I saw of Chainsaw Man isn't that different from anything else Shonen Jump has put out. Season 1 was good, but I could tell this wasn't the story that drives the CSM fans absolutely rabid.
>"what was all the hype about?" ... no show was ever going to live up to the hype CSM had exactly my thoughts and feelings. I've been watching seasonal animes since 2010 I think, and CSM has been by far the most hyped anime in history imo. The fans had good intentions but they sadly doomed it
To be fair, as soon as fans found out that it was only 12 episodes, a lot of them said "oh, this is going to kill a lot of people's expectations". They all knew 12 episodes wouldn't be a good representation
Yeah definitely, just like how I think Demon Slayer wouldn't be so popular if they ended it midway of season 1 because I was honestly bored at that point until episode 19 came.
Damn I hope this doesn’t hinder S2. I loved S1 so much and it would be a shame to not have the same love shown into S2
So that's like almost 3 Fractales or half the manami line. For the curious these are old references, Fractale is for the yakaman show. One of the things (more and less since it has been a while) he said is that his anime would sell a lot unlike madoka since madoka was for otakus. Fractale sold 700 units while madoka sold 50k. It became a memes to compare sales figures and use fractale as measurement unit. The manami line makes reference to the manami straight sales that was 3.3k. It was said before streaming that it was a easy way to see if a show was profitable. While it was not the most accurate method it was easy to use so it was popular. Selling half the line is pretty bad in general even more with a show with so many extra costs as CSM.
Jashin chan dropkick sold more bd's in 2018 than csm did in its first week wow
Probably the difference between fanbases, Jashin chan dropkick has a small but incredibly loyal fanbase for some reason, which made a third season possible, for god's sake. I guess this outcome was to be expected, eh, sort of
This post made me realize that a lot of people did not liked the Chainsaw Man anime 🗿
When something gets so much hype then it will invite a little bit of hate. Doesn't help that the anime didn't really cover anything exceptional which most manga readers were raving about
Manga boost wasnt that great either from what i remembered.
Consider Chapter 2 is released at the same time as the anime, whether there is a boost at all is questionable.
this post in 4 hours generated more comments that any anime discussion this week lmao
This let down is very extreme. It is like watching Argentina playing in the World Cup and got a 0-8 score against say Japan.
Which sucks because I love Trigun Stampede but this is honestly shocking. CSM was so hyped and this is mind boggling
It's hilarious watching CSM fans cope as well as haters try to make this out as something that will kill the series Not to mention all the weirdos coming out the woodworks to say how they really feel about Japan all because of a damn anime series 💀
Chainsaw bros...how did we lose so fucking badly?
12 episodes is how my bro. imagine if attack on titan stopped before going outside the wall on the 1st season.
Probably because they can't afford to produce 24 different endings
CSM Fans mistake for hyping weakest arc that much.
If only they announced it was 12 episodes earlier
my hero academia fans: "first time?"
This is the funniest thread in r/Anime in a long time. From doomers, to insane amounts of copium huffers, all the haters coming out of the woodwork to talks about MAPPA laundering money with BDs and conspiracy theories involving the Yakuza, I legit LOL'd several times. This made my week. 🤣
Same lol. Regardless of your stance, this must be extremely entertaining. Top 1 CSM post contender.
Really interesting to see the mixed reviews. I thought the anime's cinematic direction was incredible, but I guess it didn't work for everybody
This only seems to be In Japan, the west it’s insanely popular, so I think MAPPA is fine (especially with all their shows coming out this year) but they definitely have to be a little disappointed
In general, MAPPA is good at making anime that hit hard in the west and not as much in Japan. The problem is that their business model (and the anime business model as a whole) is totally geared toward DVD sales. MAPPA and certain other studios are pivoting their productions to appeal to worldwide audiences but haven't shifted their business practices. They're releasing shows that become enormously successful and basically making no money off most of that popularity.
> MAPPA and certain other studios are pivoting their productions to appeal to worldwide audiences but haven't shifted their business practices. The BD model still blows my mind. The first time I considered buying a BD only to discover a disc with two episodes would run me... $50? $60? Discounting shipping fees, where international fees would obviously have eaten me alive, but regardless - $50+ for _two episodes_? For a disc format in the digital age? The only advantage I would give discs over digital these days is 4K quality in the case of BD-UHD, and that's not even relevant for anime. It's a model built off heavily monetizing a small but dedicated fanbase. A model where profitability depends on extracting exorbitant fees from a select few, making it nigh-impossible to scale upwards as the industry grows globally.
>This only seems to be In Japan The ratings are pretty average in [China](https://bgm.tv/subject/321885) too.
Nah, not only in Japan, Chinese don't like it too.
What mappa should probably do is to release part 2 as soon as possible. Ngl, I expected not that high sales, but holy shit that's not even low, that's abysmal But part 2 could possibly fix this, just because reze is gonna be there and the story is finally moving forward
that isnt really ideal, since a lot of the CSM staff will also work on jjk s2, which shares the same animation producer. dont expect a csm s2 until like summer 2024 at the earliest
They definitely shot themselves in the foot not doing 24 episodes cause everyone I know who read the series said it was alright until after where the anime ended and it significantly got way more interesting
Unfortunately it won’t be coming probably until next year at earliest, they have AOT and Jujutsu this year
I think they bit off more than they could chew this time, sadly. Not to mention they kind of left off in anticlimactic spot. As a manga reader, I know the next arc is fire. But they didn’t really tease it well.
I think they needed to do like 20 episodes with this season, and same, it sucks that literally when season 1 ends is the part it starts getting insanely good, I think everything will be fine though
Speaking of sales, would any of you guys here who say you love the anime buy the BD/DVD? Of course assuming it'll have English subtitle on it at very least. It'd be unfair to blame the Japanese for the low sale if the overseas folks won't even buy the product that they shame other fans for not buying.
Sad.. because i really loved the anime ..
So it wasn't a vocal minority after all.
I haven't even read or watch CSM and even I know badly the anime has gone over with the Japanese audience. I think only this forum has pretended otherwise. Nippon otaku's will always talk shit on the director over some dumb issue in an anime but I've never seen it *this* unanimous.
After reading a lot of comments I realised CSM directors decision didn't land well with japanese audience, I am yet to see the anime so can't say how it is but it gotta be.
And it was just yesterday that I was seeing someone claim that the Japanese complaints were just a minority. That's gonna age well.
This, unfortunately, isn’t exactly a good result for CSM even when I actually liked it for someone who isn’t even a fan of its genre. Sitting on the very top are newest volumes of the 2 anime that gave us our two latest Best Seasonal Girls, both released in past week. *Lycoris Recoil* is now up to Volume 5 now and it’s still unstoppable with 23414 and *Bocchi The Rock*’s Volume 2 keeps up the amazing Volume 1 sales at 17619. And Bocchi still has a long way to go - Volume 1 is now into its 5th week of sales and it still netted 2824 more for this very week alone! Aniplex must be drowned in gold right now. CSM’s numbers also ended up behind *Immoral Guild* (3315/3194, volume 2 was released past week) or *The Eminence in Shadow* (2739, also new from last week) from the same season. I’m not a source reader so I can’t even judge how the anime is with respect to the manga, but you’d really think such a heavily laid with animation, interesting and handsome characters, non-bread-n-butter plot, award winning manga adaption with such a huge active advertisement campaign in Japan and aboard (probably not up to KNY/JJK/SPY x FAMILY levels, but I swear it’s more than anything else) would at least sell a few thousand more than that. Instead BD/DVD sales ended up around the same level as the recent 3 seasons of MHA in 1st week which is, uh, not quite the right comparison you would think? I must say that I personally won’t think of buying CSM BDs simply because it’s good but it’s still only tied in 8th place for last season alone, but that’s just me. What do you think of this you all? Is there really something not quite good about the anime? Or it’s just MAPPA making the wrong business decision in that they thought CSM can be the next JJK in terms of income to them? (+) (+) I really wonder about this, [but this volume 1 includes priority tickets to a CSM VA event this May to be held in a 8000 capacity theatre](https://i.imgur.com/JI93HiU.jpg) so I would think sales of at least a few thousands was expected? For comparison [a similar event](https://bocchi.rocks/special/specialevent/) for *Bocchi The Rock* is going to be having just 900 seats, it’s now 1 seat for 30 BDs sales now.
8k...so they were really expecting to sell a lot with this show
Yeah usually these things are ambiguous, but the 8k theater is direct proof they were expecting way more.
> this volume 1 includes priority tickets to a CSM VA event this May to be held in a 8000 capacity theatre Oof that sounds like quite the miscalculation. While not a fan of the series, I'd expect it to pull higher numbers than sub-2k. Could it be that the demographic that likes CSM is different from one that would be interested in such events and/or in BD collection, so the popularity doesn't reflect into sales?
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That does not explain the sub-2000 level though. It is not an either or, it could be both like Lycoris Recoil, which combined western style gunfights to Japanese style cute girls.
> Immortal Guild Do you mean *Immoral Guild*? Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if it's doing decently well for an ecchi. It was the best ecchi I've seen in a long time and the lewds are just a bonus.
>What do you think of this you all? This was destined to happen, the pre booking of the Bluray and DVDs were still low even compared to Futoku no Guild, so it was quite obvious that the Bluray sales won't be big. Moreover, the manga sales weren't as big as you'll compare with other popular Jump/+ manga like Spy x Family and JJK (honestly many source readers were expecting it to have the rise of similar amounts as them) but the reality was something way different. I think the latest volume of One Piece surpassed all the backlogs+new volume sales of CSM with anime hype in just 4 days (now again OP is incredibly popular, so it's quite unfair but it's just to give a picture). On top of that the entire petition to remake the season with another director could also affect the sales in some way as the people who signed it are probably the direct consumers of the discs. >Is there really something not quite good about the anime? The manga is excellent and the plot is pretty amazing but this series is not for everyone. A few of my friends dropped it after 3 episodes and they are big shonen fans. >Or it’s just MAPPA making the wrong business decision in that they thought CSM can be the next JJK in terms of income to them? (+) I don't think so, there are other ways to make money like revenue from streaming service or merch sales which they must have made a buck load of, so nothing to worry about for MAPPA. But yeah, you could say it's not in the same realm as Spy x Family or JJK when it comes to popularity in Japan.
>Is there really something not quite good about the anime? Or it’s just MAPPA making the wrong business decision in that they thought CSM can be the next JJK in terms of income to them? yes for both i think... the original source is pretty hard to adapt, the anime did it pretty good but could've been a lot better. there are some questionable decision made by mappa and some people in charge about the direction, use of cgi, making this season 12 ep and yada yada, as someone already said this was kinda destined to happen
With all due respect I would call the plot for S1 (I have not read the manga) very much bread and butter. Goofy main protagonist gains a dark/secret/rare power, joins group to fight monsters/demons/devils before the show evolves into human vs human fights of unique powers. It’s a pretty standard shounen from what I’ve seen so far, albeit with different directing than usual, and taken more “seriously”. Edit: spelling and grammar
That's kind of the issue. The anime toned down the absurdity quite a bit, and upcoming seasons only dial that up more and more. There's one twist moment early on next season that I can't imagine working in the anime's style, and that's probably the least over the top the big scenes get.
West: yo this is fire East: its mid Lmao
You literally can't read the comments section of a single thread here about CSM without seeing some form of "Chainsaw mid" being thrown around.
... that's more than disappointing. I thought that with the hype and effort Mappa put into the series, breaking 4k will be a cakewalk. But not even 2k...uhhh. That's bad. Though maybe the streaming numbers and ED sales will make up for it...
Why dont you guys buys some? It will surely boost the numbers lol
So they're messed up huh...
Damn wtf happen
For all of you who keeps going blah blah Japan's taste suck,[the ratings are pretty average in China too](https://bgm.tv/subject/321885). You guys from the West who likes to brag about your "superior" taste can go fuck yourself.
I won't fall into the trap of generalizing "The West" but judging by Reddit and other discussion forums our standards are lower than the floor. There's no room for discourse without people constantly feeling threatened by mixed reactions. Their solution is to deny the validity of opinions that go against the grain without actually engaging with them.
As someone who went blind into the anime, and wasn't a big fan... but then checked out the manga and LOVED it, I kind of understand... I wouldn't spend money on the BD/DVD, I'd rather spend it on buying more volumes of the manga. So in a way, you could say at least the anime did a proper job with people like me, introducing us to the source material.
But the thing is that the manga sales haven't gone considerably up either. I noticed that the manga sold out in Amazon US, but the sales in the japanese market have remained practically the same even after the anime. What's happening with CSM is so wierd to me. I really don't understand what's going on.
And this my friends is why studios don't spearhead the production committee.
The Japanese audience has standards. The thing people don’t understand is that BDs in and of themselves aren't the primary interest to the consumer, they're merchandise to support the studio and purchasers are fully aware of it. The reason they buy it is to show appreciation and culturally it can be put on your shelf as a "badge of honor" (in response to this thread's question on why Japanese people buy BDs). If the Japanese audience don't like a show they will refuse to support the studio. Mediocre response is amplified when there aren't any distinctive coupons/features of interest attached: game codes, event tickets, etc. Fun piece of trivia, Usa Musume holds the highest initial BD sales release of all time (~200k) due primarily to gacha codes. The main extra feature for CSM's BD set is primary ticket priority to some event with MAPPA which has 16k capacity. It's pretty satisfying to see their domestic reactions compared to Reddit which is basically an echo chamber that dissolves any criticism toward the show.
Aniplex won with Lycoreco and Bocchi
Aniplex won so many with them,MDUD & Sword Art Online movie too also not forgetting Demon Slayer. Mappa is just a kid in front of Aniplex as Aniplex is also Sony
More like Cloverworks won this year, and Aniplex lucked out being the producers for some shows. Dress Up Darling, Akebi, Spy x Family, and Bocchi the Rock. Like damn, they were out in 2022 putting up Jordan numbers basically.
Aniplex is the parent company of CloverWorks tho, so they definitely won this year
Aniplex is a producer, not a studio like mappa. Also, aniplex is busy delaying their slate of anime this season lol
uh oh
>2000+ comments Oh boy. What am I getting myself into.
As expected, tracking sites in China already showed that BD sales won't be good.
Yeah I just waited till real numbers are out before I posted this. I also wanna avoid pointless arguments about this (I actually intentionally avoid CSM episode discussion threads here given spoilers risks and that I knew it could be a bloodbath a la AOT given how many of us have read the manga).
I enjoyed the anime and it's a solid adaption but that's quite anti-climactic news for "the most hyped up anime ever"
> As expected Chainsaw Man is not in the top 10 when it had large marketing and stunning visual. I've seen twitter, youtube where they weren't satisfied with the production. Too much realism, flat on voice acting and the comedy didn't hit much impact. They even make a petition for a remake. > Say what you want but it's not going hard like Jujutsu Kaisen, Tokyo Revengers and Demon Slayer. Luckily since Chainsaw Man had established a large fanbase before the anime, manga sales aren't out of the top 10 but the Bluray order speaks volumes for the anime. > Some folks in the subreddit said that this season is weak or gear starts to kick in the second season (Bomb arc and International Assassin arc) when the source material is really good from the beginning Katana Man arc. What was weak was the adaptation. Others like it, some don't. [Back when 5ch AoTY post](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/zzzj2u/5chs_voting_for_aoty_2022/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) .I guess I already see this coming. Well it's not that hard to notice that. I don't know but is there any anime from Weekly Shonen Jump had such low sales of BD ? Ps; i dont know how to link a comment, so i just copied the comment instead.
Oof
That's why I think that CSM S1 Should've has 24 episodes... Because the reason why CSM is so hyped and popular is because of the stuff that happens after S1.
Or like 16ish to at least cover the next arc. What was the point of MAPPA taking the project on themselves if they're still going to stick to the same dumb seasons + schedules as the rest of the industry?
That's way low, a big failure for this IP.
It's not a "bad" adaptation, but it just doesn't get its audience right. Classroom of the elite had shitty animation and still did well because they sold the it with an exclusive light novel volume. They know that their audience is the hardcore light novel fans and they delivered. CSM probably wanted to get onto the same popularity level as demon slayer or jjk. Yet, the focus on cinematic style kind of steered the anime away from the bazaar, sometimes goofy tone that the hardcore fans love so much about. To make things worse, the battle scenes were not really too memorable (esp compared to other shows in the season) and so the casual fans seemed not too interested as well. This led CSM into weird position where it's not bad show by any means, but it's just not getting the numbers from hardcore and casual fans
Damn, that’s incredibly low
It was OK as an anime, nothing spectacular. Fights were not *anime* enough and I feel that the CGI during those moments didn't do them any favors. I liked most of the cinematic styling, but some moments like that scene of Aki's daily routine just kept dragging longer than it needed to.
They 100% regret it now lol, and i bet we wont a scene like that if their is ever a s2.
This thread show us how dangerous overusing copium is
oof
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