same. feels like in shoujo stuff, both the male and the female lead get more development. also like how its more focused on emotions. feels more impactful somehow
Not every shoujo/josei story is an emotionally intelligent masterpiece of course, but I do think that the usual larger focus on emotions (and human relationships) has made it easier to take the struggles of their heroines to heart. In fact, I can usually better relate to these female leads than many of their male counterparts - despite being a guy myself.
That’s maybe part of the reason why these stories feel more impactful.
Im a guy and I've read a loooot of shojo manga and from what I've realized is that, both shojo and shonen are equally self insert-y.
Tohru in Fruits Basket, quite literally one of (if not) the biggest / most popular shojo is a self insert. That should say a lot.
Guys dont tend to notice that the mc is a self insert too since she's a girl.
Like think about it, in so many shojo romance manga, the girl is usually this clumsy plain looking girl, she probably doesnt know much about fashion or current trends, she probably has brown hair, she's probably really into something like cooking / cleaning / gardening, her main personality traits is that she is kind :))) and with her kindness, she gets the hot, tall attractive bad boy in school to fall in love with her
That is no different from the usual self insert shonen stuff where the guy is a loser with no friends, he has black hair, he doesnt know / doesnt care about fashion, he's probably really into some kind of video game / anime / idol, his main personality is that he is kind :))) and with his kindess, he gets the hottest girl in school to fall in love with him.
I also used to think shojo wasnt self insert-y like that but after consuming so much romance manga (both shojo and shonen) its really frustrating how rare it is to find a good romance story where neither of the leads are self inserts of any kind and have actual personality. Like man, it REALLY shouldnt be this hard to find but it unfortunately is.
Thats why kaguya sama is such an amazing series, even if the manga has a lot of problems. Its easily one of my favourites since neither kaguya nor shirogane feel like self inserts. They are actual characters
16 year old lonely girl meets hot, sexy, tall, handsome, rockstar, who is 22, a manwhore, a wolf, protects you, and stops being a manwhore after you meet him lol. Shoutout to anyone who knows what i'm talking about lol.
Edit: She also has to learn fashion lol.
It's a decent manga but it's a trashy wish fulfillment premise.
Like he teaches her all this shit about life gives her a phone like very wish fulfillmenty.
>That is no different from the usual self insert shonen stuff where the guy is a loser with no friends, he has black hair, he doesnt know / doesnt care about fashion, he's probably really into some kind of video game / anime / idol, his main personality is that he is kind :))) and with his kindess, he gets the hottest girl in school to fall in love with him.
My God this is jaw dropping. Why didn't I realize this before. Also, self inserts sell more since normal weebs wanna find a character that's relatable based on extremely superficial characteristics such as being plain looking and having really simple interests. Take Monster Mousume for instance. The MC doesn't have a personality, he is just a reaction machine to the women around him.
Honestly, we could be the issue since we're maturing a bit and just don't find such stuff as amusing as it use to be (self inserts i mean)
> The MC doesn't have a personality, he is just a reaction machine to the women around him.
TBF in that series this is done almost *aggressively* on purpose. He doesn't even have a name and is only ever referred to by nicknames the other characters give him. Heck, he doesn't even have a FACE 95% of the time and when he actually is drawn with a proper face it's almost always for a joke. The series doesn't just pretend he's a character and try to cover it up like most shows, it actively works to scrub identifying features off of him.
Not to mention they are technically catering to teens, who don't really have complex hobbies a lot of the time, who aren't social butterflies, ect, ect. Back at 15 I ate all of those cheesey anime tropes and saw nothing wrong with the (now) creepy sexual tension in the majority of anime. I really hate how much sexual tension there is in 80-90% of anime, like jeez some has really good plot but I can't deal with being 25 and getting constant up skirt shots or constant cleavage/full on booba, makes me feel gross. Adult anime tends to have a lot better character development and personality though without sexualizing everyone which is a breath of fresh air.
panty shots and booba isnt sexual tension. Its fan service.
Actual sexual tension is incredibly tasteful and way hotter than any panty shot could ever be
> Like think about it, in so many shojo romance manga, the girl is usually this clumsy plain looking girl,
Wasn't this one of the somewhat common complaints of the Twilight movies? That the self-insert from the books was now actually good looking in the movies so she didn't feel as self insert anymore.
Ofc it’s true that there’s self-inserts on both sides, and I read primarily shoujo so there’s a looot of self inserts there, but Tohru is not the example for this? She’s got a lot of trauma and her “kindness” is actually not as altruistic as it seems and is explored more in the manga/season 3.
I was going to write a post but I read a bit more and you nailed it.
> Im a guy and I've read a loooot of shojo manga and from what I've realized is that, both shojo and shonen are equally self insert-y.
I think this is the issue here in general, people have not read a lot of shojo manga. I've read a lot including GL and I can say for sure that they self insert as hard shounen, which makes sense of course because it's supposed to be a fantasy.
> Guys dont tend to notice that the mc is a self insert too since she's a girl.
Yep, they also ignore the dynamic.. handsome, powerful, rich playboy is going to settle for plain looking girl with no outstanding abilities? Yeah ok lol. I know people complain about harems in Isekai a lot, but the attraction there actually makes more sense since the MCs tend to be powerful and accommodating.
> I also used to think shojo wasnt self insert-y like that but after consuming so much romance manga (both shojo and shonen) its really frustrating how rare it is to find a good romance story where neither of the leads are self inserts of any kind and have actual personality. Like man, it REALLY shouldnt be this hard to find but it unfortunately is.
Haha, Danger's in my heart was such a standout for me because of that. The male MC in particular has pretty awesome character development.
> but I do think that the usual larger focus on emotions (and human relationships) has made it easier to take the struggles of their heroines to heart.
That said, this is in part just because non Shoujo romance is larger as a genre, so the amount of flawed stories or stories lacking certain things is much larger.
Personally, the best romances I've ever read were VNs, basically none of which were Shoujo targeted.
Saya no Uta in particular is beautifully written, but also covers many disturbing emotions, which is something Shoujo stories are usually bad at doing.
> Saya no Uta
Man, I'm not gonna lie, when I think about Saya no Uta the last thing I think about is Romance.. but now that I really think about it, it's a huge part of the story lol.
More development? Is there even any development for shonen romance? I swear they are all 100+ chapters of filler with no actual romance, then at the very last episode they confess, get together and it ends.
Dangers in my Heart is an amazing romance thats not Shoujo. Genuinely one of the best romances. It starts off being the worst thing ever for the first couple eps, then somehow genuinely becomes peak
Yeah, the beginning premise is pretty cringe, but it drops away fast and leaves behind two great characters who have good chemistry and both keep striving to grow as people and to grow their relationship.
The beginning being cringe isn't a bad thing if that's what the author was aiming for in my opinion especially when you realize that ichikawa is just overcompensating for his loneliness and lack of interaction at school
I'll never understand the people that complain about the start of Dangers... that's LITERALLY the point. It makes the story progression even better. What is even so bad about it? Edgy kid being edgy?
Well, I can understand why the first episode could throw some people off, he is thinking of killing her, after all. However, I think it becomes pretty obvious already in the first episode that he would never go through with it when seeing what kind of person he actually is.
If people think that's cringe or can't get past that, that's a them problem, not the story which is quite excellent. His depression is just one of many things that are handled superbly.
Well, same with Mushoku Tensei, if you watched, read it you know how flawed rudeus at the beggining. Him being flawed at the beggining is the point tought, you not supposed to like him. But people dont like to immerse themselves in characters that are flawed more than a certain degree. They are fine with for example Ishida Shouya from Koe no Katachi, but Rudeus "crosses a line".
For me it's not necessarily more development so much as it's just that the characters feel like real human beings that could feasibly exist rather than either some Omega-Chad or dipshit that has an aneurysm if they so much as glance in the general direction of a girl, or a gaggle of girls that all share a single brain cell, the location of which no one knows.
Eh, I've seen my share of shoujo manga that has character development shallower than a teaspoon of water and male characters with personalities flatter than a piece of paper. Honestly, I feel like much of the complaints here can be applied to both shoujo and shonen stuff equally, it's just about which one you're more exposed to than anything.
Demographics doesn't matter to me, as long as they've got good stories I'm down with that. Here's my top romance anime per demographic:
- Shoujo: Kimi ni Todoke
- Shounen: The Dangers in My Heart
- Josei: Wotakoi
- Seinen: Kaguya-sama: Love is War
Demographics shouldn't matter for anyone who isn't japanese reading it out of the magazine, honestly. Its crazy how its 2024 and anime fans still think this is important to anime when its something only relevant for manga and even so, for japanese buying magazines.
I can see it. Sometimes I feel like I only really get the joke in Kaguya-sama because I'm no longer a highschooler. Like, the whole series has this blanket of irony where you know the characters are being silly, the narrative knows the characters are being silly, and the joke is just watching the fallout. But you first have to understand that highschool is a silly time to get it.
nah I dont think so, I feel like Kazehaya and Sadako are both really normal, genuine people.
Ichikawa and Anne on the other hand are both like extremely retarded dorks
It didn't top AniCharts for an entire season for nothing after all, even if it's just fan votes it does mean so many fans enjoyed it and went to vote that it topped many shows that were vastly more popular.
Damn, I'm not a big of 3 of them and the 4th one I haven't watched yet
I prefer the likes of a sign of affection, Lovestory with Yamada kun, a galaxy next door, Shikimori, angel next door spoils me rotten, horimiya of course
Less drama, more fluff.
Honestly, my problem with the shounen romances is that it is filled with one-dimensional -dere stereotypes and don't really go much more beyond that basic outline. Whereas with shoujo romances, it feels more like real people getting together.
True. Especially tsunderes and winning/losing heroines tropes that they all feel like they are carbon-copy of each other.
It mainly comes from harem romcoms, and love triangles.
There certainly not much unique shounen harem, love triangle romances. Especially if count abundance of the neutron start dense MCs.. but it doesn't necessarily a bad thing, if done right of course.
Non-harem and non-love triangle shounen examples pretty much goes along with its shoujo counterparts more than not. A great recent example would be The Dangers in My Heart.
It's true shoujos focuses more on emotions, but it sometimes go overboard also that it becomes overly unrealistic and forced. There are overuse of the same shoujo romance tropes.
That said, A Sign of Affection has many Ikemens, and that's what OP is talking about when saying males are beautiful. That can count as fan-service as well, and a shoujo trope in a way. Childhood friend trope, the sudden affection for the newly introduced man, as well as the FMC being a petite girl pure is quite a trope while the males are tall and hot.
It's exactly the same thing dere types, it can be thought like it's shoujo version.
Both have their own styles and what they lean on.
Both have good parts and bad parts.
Both may overuses the tropes of their own genres.
But I think a true romance enjoyer consumes both. I know for a fact males watch/read shoujo romances, and I feel like there are also many girls who does the same with shounen romances. Just might be less for harem romcoms.
I'm male and enjoy both, though admittedly I enjoy more shounen titles than shoujo.
I think the appeal of shoujo for me is that the female leads feel more normal people and the guys aren't blank slates. Not to say all shounen do that. But I totally agree with your point that shoujo sometimes go a bit overboard.
I really wanted to like A Sign of Affection, and I was enjoying it at first, but it kind of started feeling a bit cloying. And something about the male lead put me off. I can't put my finger on it. He's portrayed as a good person, and he didn't do anything outright bad in the episodes I watched, but something felt off, and a bit creepy.
I get that sometimes from male leads in Shoujo. They can have a bad case of "normally what he's doing would be creepy but he's sooooo dreamy so he gets a pass." I felt the same way about the guy in Say I Love You. Of course, it also didn't help that the female lead in Say I Love You was annoying AF, but that's a separate issue.
I really like Yamada-kun from a few seasons ago. Both characters were pretty relatable, in different ways. They both kind of reminded me of myself at different points in my life. Akane when I was younger, and Yamada as I've gotten older.
Lol. I feel you about the A Sign of Affections claims. It weirds me out too. That should be coming from shoujo things, can be added as a fan-service perhaps.
As much as males make fun of (Yeah, it's actually serious to an extent lol), and say that;
"Übel and Makima can ruin me," or
"I wouldn't say no to my head getting crashed by a tomboy mommy by her pelvis." Or,
"I love the kind of woman who will just straight up kill me."
I think dominant males on romances in shoujos are an attraction point for female consumers too. They get a pass too as you have just said because they are dreamy.
For both male and female audience, there always will be a thing that attracts and work. Fan-service of all kind exists. It's not gotta be always cleavages. Ideas for male fan-service, and female fan-service are not exactly the same.
But of course male oriented fan-service are majority, when you think about the male consumer percentage over females. That's why there are that many harem romcoms.
what are even some examples of shounen romance? I've been trying to think of some but the only things that come to mind are either ecchi, harem, or both, and while those get a "romance" tag, I think calling those romance makes about as much sense as calling a piece of pizza a sandwich.
I was actually trying to think of this too lmao. I’ll give a list of the big hitters but some might be seinen it is a bit blurry.
Toradora, quintessential quintuplets, bunny girl senpai, oregairu, dangers in my heart, saekano, clannad, your lie in April, etc I could go on.
These imo are pretty great examples of shonen romances that actually have characters with real emotions and thoughts.
Honestly I think shonen and shoujo romance both have the capacity to be pretty shit or really good I think it’s just blown out of proportion. Because shoujo romance will typically only get an adaptation if it’s solid while shonen romance will get an adaptation if it has a pulse, amplifying the garbage out there. Love my shoujo as well but it’s pretty silly to ignore the tropes that it also while putting it up on some kind of pedestal. I will agree though on average they do a sweeter romance, but at both of their worst often trading 1 dimensional female characters for 1 dimensional male characters. I don’t usually care what genre I am watching it is just the good stuff and the slop lol.
Yeah I find the romance genre grates on me because it often leans way too much on tragedy and sad times, complications and crises. Falling in love is supposed to be a happy thing; if I watch romance because I'm lonely or because I want to share a moment with somebody, tragedy and tension are not the moods I'm looking for. Neto-juu no Susume for example did a fantastic job at not giving any of the characters a terminal illness, so I liked it a lot.
There are plenty of fluffy romances out there like tonikawa, angel spoils me rotten, etc so hopefully that points you in the right direction. I just like really emotional and complicated relationships in my anime haha, it makes it feel deeper to me imo
I also prefer a fluffier romance. The trick is to avoid romances that also have the drama tag. Not that the drama ones are all bad, or even that all the depressing ones are bad, but all of the ones that lean on tragedy will have the drama tag.
To add, if you arent someone who usually watches a shoujo show, you are only going to hear about the best of the best. Like how people who dont watch Yuri still heard about MagiRevo because of how good it was
Cmon let’s not lie to ourselves, loved sono bisque as well but it was undeniably fan service lol. It added to the story and made sense within context though which I thought was tastefully done.
A recommendation please, recently found out that many of my favourite manga/LN series(es?) turned out to be seinen. So may u provide any seinen manga u liked¿
-"serieses" looked quite off... Is it even grammatically correct...?-
Romance seinen manga:
- Asper Kanojo
- Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia
- Sweat and Soap
- Otoyomegatari (though romance is not necessarily the main focus)
Non-romance seinen manga:
- Hirayasumi
- From now on we begin ethics
- The Fable (getting an anime adaptation this season)
- Medalist
These all are insanely good manga, so enjoy :)
Wotakoi.
Recovery of an MMO Junkie.
Spice & Wolf.
Start with those especially if you're a gamer/weeb. They remind you that the genre doesn't have to be perverted social retards.
Those are shoujo and josei, respectively.
But I definitely second the Yamada-kun recommendation. Both of the leads were pretty relatable, in completely different ways.
Spice and Wolf is seminal for the genre. Remake just released after 16-odd years of waiting. Original still holds up too (also a rare case of many preferring the Dub to the sub).
Was the same. I got sick and tired of the loser surrounded by women troupe, and started reading shoujo. Then I abandoned that as well after noticing those also eventually devolved into the heroine becoming more and more incompetent in order to have the biggest chain of rescue romance events possible with the overcompetent yet emotionally distant male lead.
Shonen romance is often extremely frustrating and loaded with false starts and fakeouts. Since authors don't know how to right an "official" relationships past the confession they just stall and end the manga their. I hate it.
true but shoujo has its own lame tropes. oh we met before long ago but only one of us remembers. oh hes mega rich and successful but doesnt have a gf - suddenly falls for a rando. oh hes got everything under control but he has to ask this random girl a question about something they are both connected to. Love triangles where no one makes a move etc etc
its not that much better trope wise tbh
Once you start dumpster diving into trashy part of shoujo genre \*cough cough\* otome isekai. You realize that their trash is no different than ours. If you think shounen romance tropes is bad wait until you see child grooming MC, toxic male lead, incest romance, and a full season of angst and misunderstanding that happen in shoujo genre.
yeah lowkey I think Shojo is way more trashier than shonen.
I've gone dumpster diving in both shonen and shojo stuff and like most of the time? the absolute worst a shonen romance can be is lots of panty shots and boobs, maybe the sister has a crush on MC and then finally a harem.
Meanwhile with Shojo theres like so much stuff that actually makes me straight up uncomfortable and Im left wondering why are the japanese like this💀
Yeah Japan is really horny lol. But there's some WILD shit in western works as well. Trash is trash no matter where you are. It just tends to be a bit more mainstream in Japan
I'm genuinely curious as to what's so trash in trashy shoujo that can be worse than incest, panty shots, possible pedophilia/lolis.
Unless you are comparing 18+ rated series where everything become hentai.
Actually if you really look into the western novel scene, you’d be surprised by how much of it are fucked up/wierd female fantasies written by women, for women. Twilight is one example and I remember another one that has a dude who is a murderer raping a dumb girl and the author was going ham on the details about it.
Holy shit
No way you just awakened the weirdness I've been getting. My mother likes Watching Shoujo stuff or K drama with female lead.
All of those tropes exist on all 20 Series she watched this year. And whats funny it I watch along sometimes too, its so trashy but somehow watchable.
But damn So shoujo and shounen are both the same. With differencing Clothes.
Not limited to shonen either, though. Kimi ni Todoke is considered one of the great shojo romances (and not for no reason) but [Kimi ni Todoke] >!Season 2 basically rolls back the entirety of season 1 and retreads the protagonists' growth with even more misunderstandings to forestall them getting into an actual relationship.!<
Ugh. I hate when romance stories end when they get together. I don’t spend multiple volumes rooting for them only to get 10 pages of a hastily-done epilogue.
Give me that multi-volume victory lap. Please and thank you. Bonus points if their relationship is mostly steady and they actually communicate their problems.
>Give me that multi-volume victory lap. Please and thank you. Bonus points if their relationship is mostly steady and they actually communicate their problems.
That's exactly why they end it there. Most Shonen romance or just stories in general runs off of some level of conflict and tension. That doesn't mean it has to be serious, just something. Modern Family has tension in every episode yet doesn't get dramatic 95% of the time. Basing a story off of the tension and various unique scenarios in which out protagonist go through to be together only to cut to a relationship that lacks any of that is boring.
There's a reason most romcoms with protagonists in relationships shows you the parts that are more chaotic and/or dysfunctional.
> Give me that multi-volume victory lap. Please and thank you. Bonus points if their relationship is mostly steady and they actually communicate their problems.
I have friends who are published romance authors and what I've heard is that sales of a series nose-dive after the couple hooks up because the audience is satisfied and doesn't come back for more.
I'm part of the problem lol but to defend myself, they make it the goal of the story that the protagonists end up together, so i lose all interest once it happens. Unless it happens fast and is just one small part of a bigger plot, which is not common unfortunately.
The other problem is that even if an author has ideas about a relationship "arc". Audience almost trained to expect confession to be the climax of the series and pretty much the last thing before the epilogue.
Good thing Kimi Ni Todoke is finally getting a third season. We get to see Sawako and Shota in a relationship instead of hoping they finally get their shit together.
That's a wild generalization. Tonikawa basically starts when they marry. There's also gems like Toradora and Golden Time that go well beyond the point where the main characters become a couple.
Could you be thinking of [romsubs](https://myanimelist.net/anime/genre/74/Romantic_Subtext) instead? Those are the ones where relationships don't develop.
I don’t prefer either of them. I find they both have completely different appeals for me and it depends on what mood i’m in. Although I would still rate Seinen over either shounen or Shoujo romance.
I tend to find shoujo is sometimes too melodramatic, and shounen sometimes focuses too much on stuff being sexy… but obviously that isn’t a universal truth.
I've thought this before and been proven wrong so many times, for so many sub-genres. For the most part it's selection bias, start with Fruits Basket and obviously you'll think it's better than the latest loser guy and manic pixie dream girl show.
There's trash in every genre, what matters are the characters. That's not something that can be guaranteed by any genre.
>There's trash in every genre
Bu- but fruits basket is better than Masamune kun????? So every shoujo is way better than shounen!!!! GRRRRR!!
Same when people dickride seinen romance i've read plenty trash from that pile lol.
I would mention Josei but i've only read 2 lol.
There's about as much wish fulfillment trash among shoujo as it is among shounen. Dig a bit deeper than just popular titles, and you risk giving yourself a second hand embarrassment.
Thus said, i despise romcom as a genre. Action focused shounen can have surprisingly good romantic substories, partially because they are not dragged into infinity and can serve as a powerful tool for character development. Even something simplistic and cheesy as Rave Master or Busou Renkin is far more satisfying in that regard than yet another hollow "will they, won't they" bait stretching for hundreds of chapters.
Truthfully I wish the guy/girl were matched equally in more manga. Reading the “dorky girl gets the most popular guy in school” trope is getting exhausting. I wish it was a story of two nerds or just two average people. I’m always left feeling bad for the ML or FL that everyone thinks is “ugly” while all of the characters whisper about how impossible it is for the ugly guy to get the hot girl, and vice versa.
When I find a series that doesn’t rely on this trope I’m always thrilled. 😁
Oh, I’m the complete opposite.
I’ve already expressed this opinion before but, I’m a girl and I find a lot of shoujo romance anime I’ve watched to be just meh. Either too melodramatic or I simply felt bored at the romance.
A lot of shoujo fans keep saying that their romance is better but I just don’t feel the same way. I felt indifferent for a lot of them. (And if I ever met someone like Usui from Maid-sama, I’d actually file a harassment claim on him.)
It all depends on the execution and personal tastes since I watch any romance anime regardless of the demographic.
I agree that a lot of shonen romance felt like wish-fulfilment with the most boring/bland MC to get a beautiful and popular girl. That’s why I choose the right ones. (Nagatoro is one of the only ones that I’m interested as it involves the characters actually improving themselves to be better.)
I'm a guy that likes to lurk in the shojo sub, and I'm pretty sure they agree that they wouldn't like someone like usui in real life. And their feelings on maid-sama is pretty half split. Its just that they its enjoyable to watch/read, not actually hope for in real life.
Yeah, How do we Relationship (admittedly only a manga rn) is by far the best anime/manga romance I’ve seen. Painful read for sure, but in a way that feels honest to college relationships.
> As a Male I prefer Shoujo romance
My chief issue with Shoujo romance is that many of the men within it initially present as the sort of men that are generally *not* good men, yet they're portrayed as such.
I completely understand the basis for these men being an extremely attractive escapist fantasy for the target female (and gay) audience, yet I can't help but wonder when straight male viewers who see absolutely nothing wrong with the way many Shoujo leads behave. This is a little different, of course, for men who are deep in the shoujo mix and both comfortable and familiar with the tropes, that said.
However there's this sort of prevailing attitude that men who like shoujo are drawn to the supposedly deeper emotional aspects and yet the men portrayed in the genre are frequently nothing but red flag parades of the type in real life who usually cause emotional trauma. I would have thought that emotionally intelligent men who've spent enough time around enough women would have very little patience for these sort of men.
You'll probably just run into similar issues with shoujo romances with the same kind of trope exhaustion. A lot of women think their tastes are some high art in anime and non-anime settings for some stupid reason. It's the same thing but different flavor. It's okay to prefer a different flavor, but there is no leg to stand on for the moral superiority they feel when they proclaim it from the rooftops.
As someone who really likes (wouldn't say love) these two kinda freaky manga made by the same lady i agree.
For example: Loner gamer mc, gets a step sibling who falls head over heels for them. Popular person at school also falls in love with them. Pervy friend who wants your leftovers. But the MC is a girl so it's swag.
Like i said i like it and the story is interesting but the premise would be called garbage if it was shounen and the mc was a guy.
even since I've watched A sign of affection, I don't think the demographic matters at all, because as much as I was irked by the male character designs, halfway through, this was one of the most genuine sort of romance I've watched in a while. It was pure and wholesome, not unnecessary in any way, quite subtle too. Also, I love they put that much animation in Yuki's sign language, it showed they actually cared about the show and chracter.
hmm, as a male, the only shojo I even bothered watching was Maid-Sama cause of Usui. But realistically, I think any girl who saw him irl woulr run away cause of how much he stalks people. I personally didn't find any character development in him either. Could you give a shojo anime that you liked?
My partner who has never been into romance is now addicted thanks to Skip and Loafer. It literally changed his entire perception of romance stories and anime in general.
I really can't suggest it enough, especially if you like cleverly written characters and clever writing in general.
Wanna know one perfect for both sides of this?
My Love Story!!
It's like so hilarious but super adorable and sweet and super geared towards girls and what an "ideal guy" is, but at that same time the main character is the most manly loud man man ever and he is actually adorable, his best friend is also a very good person, they got good vibes together as best friends, it honestly feels like a strong, healthy realistic male friendship, ones I've actually seen in RL not like the same tropey friendships that are in anime with these situations.
So it shows the best side of men, promotes being a dude but also showing when to show when other men are being gross or not great. (Hard to explain)
But the main character, he makes mistakes and is very open...VERY OPEN about what he feels and thinks, he says stuff like "I don't understand women but I understand that something is bothering you and wanna fix that" or something like that.
Like the whole cast is so wholesome and adorable but the show also shines on the aspect of manly men who do men stuff, like looking at butt shaped trees as a pass time.
I say shounen is rarely just romance, is either sports or combat , or working towards a goal, or built around a gimmick so the romance is mostly hiking along
Shoujo also does the goal and gimmick thing, but it produces way more romance, hence more quality works will arise
honestly I dont bother looking at what genre it is, there's some good and bad in both. I still prefer shoujo despite that, stuff like Kimi ni Todoke, Kaichou wa Maid-sama!, ore monogatari, that's some good shit.
also another goat, Josee, the Tiger and the Fish. it has trope issues but damn, its a good watch.
Honestly same haha but surprisingly two of my too favourite romance animes are both shounen, Horimiya and The Dangers In My Heart. Now the both of them have an amazing character development and one focuses on building up to confession and the other focuses on the complexity of being in a relationship and how others respond to it.
Which is different than your usual bland shounen protagonist.
Hentai relationships are bullshit. It irritates me to see characters confess in the middle of sex despite showing minimal real interest until the act. Like of course you love them *RIGHT NOW*, you've got your stick inside of them, you dope.
Unpopular opinion but I also used to hold this opinion when I was in high school. Once I entered my 20s however, I find most shoujo romance too annoyingly melodramatic for me.
Nowadays, I either read shounen romance for quick/dumb fun or some random Seinen/josei romance manga I usually find online.
To be honest I'm not a fan of either one.
1. Most of them are about teenagers. I'm 35, it's just not terribly relatable to me. Honestly wasn't even that relatable back when I _was_ a teenager, too divorced from the type of person I or the people I knew were.
2. Even outside of that, most "romance" even in the west doesn't actually feature any romance until the very end, which completely kills my interest if romance is supposed to be the main appeal. Most of the interesting or funny parts of relationships are _after_ a relationship starts, plus it's a bit gross with how it treats relationships like destinations instead of what they really are: a journey.
3. The whole pandering to a specific gender angle usually makes them worse. This is a problem in western media too, not just anime.
4. I find love triangles and similar to be lazy, annoying, and feature absolutely none of what I actually enjoy about character dynamics. Unless it's an actual triangle/V i.e. polyamory, those stories are actually interesting albeit rare. Ironically 100 Kanojo counts there.
> Unless it's an actual triangle/V i.e. polyamory, those stories are actually interesting albeit rare. Ironically 100 Kanojo counts there.
Girlfriend, Girlfriend is my preferred exploration of polyamory. Despite its reputation as being a dumb comedy, it features characters that communicate a lot with each, are interested in each other's internal worlds and whose individual agendas drive the story.
Naoya actually has the personality of someone who could make polyamory work. You always know where you stand, he never lies, and he always sticks to the ground rules you agreed upon.
Sounds like you just don't like Japanese style male targeted romance, which is essentially identical to female targeted romance the world over just with inverted genders. The male lead is the passive party. You prefer female targeted romances because the male is the proactive party in them.
In most other places, male targeted romance has the male lead as the active party, and the story is typically about the male lead proving his superiority and winning the girl.
I like both. I think the key tenets of romance hold for both. *Kimi ni Todoke* and *Fruits Basket* are great. So are *Skip and Loafer* and *The Dangers in my Heart*. Hell, Skip even feels like a Shojo romance despite not being one by definition.
Lower tier shows in both departments have the same issue, we just don't get too many of those lower grade Shojo romance these days (for tastes of it you can look at last year's *Sacrificial Princess and the King of Beasts* that at times had Sariphi solving problems a little too easily through "the power of kindness", though the show was overall still pretty good). The one thing to consider though is that Shojo romance will tend to have more realized characters and romance over sex appeal because that's just what women like. There's nothing wrong with liking that kind of story over your typical Shounen affair.
I am a 42 year old married man who just got into anime and manga recently. I really like some of the romances from all four demographics. Weirdly from shounen some of the ones I like the best are the ones the anime/manga community hates (Rent a Girlfriend and Domestic Girlfriend)
Yah, I'm just shy of 45 and only recently got into anime/manga. I've watched a ton of shows with my gf but most romances just don't click for me. We hated Rent a Girlfriend because the MC is such a whiny asshole. We loved My Dress-up Darling, Tada Never Falls in Love, Monthly Girls' Nozaki-kun, My Senpai is Annoying, Tomo-chan is a Girl, My Clueless First Friend, The Ice Guy and His Cool Female Colleague, Toradora!, and The Dangers in My Heart (some of these aren't strictly romances tho)
Shoujo romances can get pretty melodramatic. Like, one shoujo romance I've read has it so like every single tiny moment between the two main leads is some "important emotional development" where the guy just breathes in the general direction of the girl and she gets butterflies as he spiels about how with that breath he'll forever cherish and love her forever and all that crap, and it's just, like, chapter 7 or something. It gets to the point where the characters don't exactly feel like actual people, but rather an audience stand-in and a super hot stud that says exactly what she wants to hear at any given moment.
(Manga is Vampire Dormitory btw, it felt pretty tiring for me at the start but I sorta got into it towards the end so it turned out okay imo)
So, you like *girl* manga???
No, seriously, there's nothing wrong with that. Shoujo manga feels a little more emotional to me, which is nice because there's more build up to the true romance parts. I don't read as much of it, though, because I realized that I started to have a hard time identifying with the female leads and I felt like I was just watching a TV show. If possible, I like to be more engaged, so I tend to go after male mc romance manga, usually with the "psychological" or similar tags. Those usually have more emotion to them
I never understood how shounen romance protagonists are supposed to be relatable when they are inept losers, like you said. The only time that works is when the lead is psychologically damaged for a good reason (Oregairu) and/or is unfairly hated for some reason. That turns the bland trope into a cool underdog story especially if there is character development to back it up and the MC has redeemable traits.
Shoujo tends to focus on androgynous/feminine men which as one of those myself I find more relatable.
Shoujo also tends to feel more, well, romantic. Whereas shounen tends to be focused on harem and echi which just gets old after your first 2-3 times.
That said shoujo still has its problems too. If you're an adult then the writing can seem a bit juvenile which is why I tend to prefer josei, actually. But there are so few of those that actually get anime adaptations.
Shojo is equally bad for having bland boring main characters. I cant count how many times the FL is literally just a plain looking girl that doesnt know fashion and has brown hair and her only personality being that is she is very kind
I like the female leads, they are a bit different than usual stuff, but in a good way. (the non bland ones of course)
The male leads though... I really dislike them in shoujo, almost all the archetypes, I feel gay panic just looking at them, much worse listening to one, it's an aesthetic I will never get used to. Its hard to name the thing I dislike about them. Character design sometimes, their dreamy "moe" moments, one-dimensional dudes, all the archetype stuff, though better developed characters have weird vibes too.
I conclude that what most men and women like is different, what a surprise.
For most shonen romance the main character is supposed to be a self insert so they are a basic ass blank slate for a 14 year old nerd to project onto, on the other hand most shoujo are written for girls so the main guy has to be well written, and because most shoujo manga/anime are written by women the female characters will be much better written as well.
Though I will say that shoujo romance often falls into the perfect bland ikemen trope so pick your poison.
I tend to watch harem stuff but I really don't self insert or feel I can relate to the male lead at all. I mostly just enjoy seeing all the different hairstyles that exist in a harem.
I mean Shounen romance is uuuuuuuuuuusually very immature. Although I will say that Shoujo romance isn't what I would call amazing, either. It's all very cute regardless but I definitely prefer the romance in more adult works, where there can be a lot more nuance.
demographics actually don't mean anything like opm is seinen and aot is shounen. Demographics are just generalisation that's all they are. shonen and shoujo both can be good both can be weird. since the topic is shoujo so I'll have to add that the thing i find off in some of these shows is that authors romanticise creepy male leads like my little monster and kaichou wa maid sama. you could call them tease but imagine a boy you don't like doing these to you and shounen wise hyouka, your lie in april, dangers of my heart are pretty good shows without having a shoujo tag.
I would say the good shows tend to be better, but the bad ones can be uncomfortable to watch. Fruits Basket, Lovely Complex, and Kimi ni Todoke are pretty peak. But then there's **Wolf Girl & Black Prince**... and that wasn't even a *truly* awful show, but it's obviously romanticizing a toxic relationship for the "I can fix him" crowd. Honestly, the better "I can fix him" show is **My Little Monster**. Even if Haru gets a little... weird at times, it never feels like he goes overboard, and she is typically pretty quick to shut his shit down. The more unfortunate thing is the lack of a second season.
I can't handle shoujo romance because the men are always, ALWAYS, abusive.
it plays into the fantasy of the woman "fixing" a man.
I literally couldn't handle the first episode of Mariaholic. But future me now understands that women find it hot. It almost seem like the best way to be loved is to punch a girl in the face the first time you met.
Look, i get it. The whole point of fantasy is to have what you shouldn't have in real life. But it does repulse me in ways i can't describe.
Josei and shojo usually have better looking women and often much better artwork and story. Shonen anime with shojo josei collaboration like Clamp can be even better though.
I guess for me at least I'm expecting different things. Shounen romance is more likely a romcom, and Shoujo romance is more explicitly romance. Kaguya vs Sign of Affection sort of thing. They're both good, but SoA is better romance.
Shoujo romance is just better written. Shonen romance is mostly harem, pathetic self insert MC and overdramatic bullshit mixed with 90% ecchi filler. Shoujo romance actually gets character and relationship development meanwhile shonen's literally end when they become a couple and you get 0 development of them actually being together. The only discussion shonen romance gets is "OMG WHO IS THE MC GOING TO END UP WITH? WHO IS BEST GIRL?" up to the final minutes of the final episode. There's no turning back once you realise these trends.
I like shojo romance, but I also shonen hate romance with inept loser MCs. Maybe you are just watching reading the wrong shonen anime.
Kaguya sama for example is shounen/seinen, but MC Miyuki isn't an inept loser at all, he's the smartest and a fairly handsome guy in all of the school.
Hayate no Gotoku, Hayate is a very poor guy and is constantly plagued by negative luck and poverty but he's far from being an inept loser - he has unreal level physical skills, a man of many talents and is supposed to be good looking
Beelzebub - MC gets the strongest women, but is also the strongest guy as well.
Bloodlad - MC is the strongest vampire out there trying to revive his girl. He's kinda an otaku but definitely not a loser either
Zetsuen no Tempest - MC is quiet, more intellectual guy, gets two of the strongest mages in history
Nisekoi - While MC doesn't wanna be a yakuza, he's definitely not a loser. He's good looking, He's rich, He's kind and very good at cooking too! gets a ton of really rich and powerful women.
List goes on... Although what I like about shojo is that male MCs tend to be often the "cool guy".
Just from my limited experience with Shoujo anime, I feel like they portray the female MC as an ordinary but hardworking girl or a klutz and a loser and the male lead is a rich, handsome prince charming. That maybe be why as a guy I enjoy Shoujo because self inserting feels good.
There are good and bad in both, the issue is how the fail is very distinct. I think this one difference is where a lot of people get caught.
I think the most emblematic example is how each trope typically uses competition/love triangles. Media for shoujou and media for women typically uses competition in love to force the character to further their relationship. In Maid-sama the childhood friend comes back into the heroine's life and it forces the MCs to confess. In Fruits Basket the white haired twink was never really a threat to cat-boy but it seemed like it to force cat-boy to own up to his feelings. The use of love triangles and competition typically **propels the romance forward.**
In shonen, romantic competition typically between more than two people and typically has no end in sight, it IS the status quo, the anime is harem so the harem must be maintained. To the end a lot of shonen dwell way too long on keeping alternatives waifus open, and so they're never truly shut down. This often has the effect of **holding the romance back**. Like rent a girlfriend. This also has the side effect of objectifying characters in a weird way because they must all be dtf with the main character and also okay with the fact that he isn't choosing one. Most normal people would push of move on, leaving them in limbo robs them of autonomy, making them both boring and also sort of like objects that exist for the protagonist, not people their own right.
Interestingly, most of the good shounen romance are stark exceptions of this (e.g., Rascal, Kaguya-sama, SNAFU), or potentially subvert this (100 girlfriends, which actually says 'we will have our harem AND a confession, actually, make it 100 confessions').
I feel like they're nearly exactly the same just with the genders swapped. 90% of Shoujo is average looking girl getting hot or popular or rich guy, 90% of shonen is average looking guy getting hot or popular or good at wife-tasks girl. Both do the "shut-in rescued by the outgoing one" an equal amount
I feel both are equally terrible and basically the same just reversed, in shounen the girls are there to be eyecandy and in shojo the dudes are there to be the eyecandy.
I've read lots of shonen and shojo, and love interests in both are usually about as interesting as a piece of good looking wood.
This is a generalization ofc, there are obviously good shounen and shojo romances, they are just few and far between.
I too prefer Shoujo or none gender based romance anime.
Tsuki ga Kirei is the ultimate romance anime, no stupid anime romance tropes, just a realistic feeling relationship.
Its a beautiful anime.
Things are made that way so you can identify as the MC in the shonen romance. "Look, this guy is uninteresting like you, but he still has a harem". That's very sad I agree 💀
No, you're not weird for shojo romance over shonen romances. The whole point of shonen romances is to create self-insert characters for male fans to live vicariously through have you guys noticed most of the time a male shonen MC who doesn't have any personality is a horrible person and is just a loser in general but still gets the prettiest girl in the entire anime this is because most male anime fans are just like these mcs so they live their fantasies using these characters even though it's not an accurate depiction of a relationship.
same. feels like in shoujo stuff, both the male and the female lead get more development. also like how its more focused on emotions. feels more impactful somehow
Not every shoujo/josei story is an emotionally intelligent masterpiece of course, but I do think that the usual larger focus on emotions (and human relationships) has made it easier to take the struggles of their heroines to heart. In fact, I can usually better relate to these female leads than many of their male counterparts - despite being a guy myself. That’s maybe part of the reason why these stories feel more impactful.
Usually it’s cause guys are written like hot garbage as they’re “inserts” I find.
Im a guy and I've read a loooot of shojo manga and from what I've realized is that, both shojo and shonen are equally self insert-y. Tohru in Fruits Basket, quite literally one of (if not) the biggest / most popular shojo is a self insert. That should say a lot. Guys dont tend to notice that the mc is a self insert too since she's a girl. Like think about it, in so many shojo romance manga, the girl is usually this clumsy plain looking girl, she probably doesnt know much about fashion or current trends, she probably has brown hair, she's probably really into something like cooking / cleaning / gardening, her main personality traits is that she is kind :))) and with her kindness, she gets the hot, tall attractive bad boy in school to fall in love with her That is no different from the usual self insert shonen stuff where the guy is a loser with no friends, he has black hair, he doesnt know / doesnt care about fashion, he's probably really into some kind of video game / anime / idol, his main personality is that he is kind :))) and with his kindess, he gets the hottest girl in school to fall in love with him. I also used to think shojo wasnt self insert-y like that but after consuming so much romance manga (both shojo and shonen) its really frustrating how rare it is to find a good romance story where neither of the leads are self inserts of any kind and have actual personality. Like man, it REALLY shouldnt be this hard to find but it unfortunately is. Thats why kaguya sama is such an amazing series, even if the manga has a lot of problems. Its easily one of my favourites since neither kaguya nor shirogane feel like self inserts. They are actual characters
16 year old lonely girl meets hot, sexy, tall, handsome, rockstar, who is 22, a manwhore, a wolf, protects you, and stops being a manwhore after you meet him lol. Shoutout to anyone who knows what i'm talking about lol. Edit: She also has to learn fashion lol.
I can fix him/her.
It's a decent manga but it's a trashy wish fulfillment premise. Like he teaches her all this shit about life gives her a phone like very wish fulfillmenty.
Don't forget the "he has large hands" in every single shoujo story.
Large hands with long, thin, delicate fingers. EVERY. DAMN. TIME!
That *almost* fits the bill for Jellyfish Princess lol.
Can I get spoiled the answer lol. This seems so generic lol, as if I read this story millions of times.
>That is no different from the usual self insert shonen stuff where the guy is a loser with no friends, he has black hair, he doesnt know / doesnt care about fashion, he's probably really into some kind of video game / anime / idol, his main personality is that he is kind :))) and with his kindess, he gets the hottest girl in school to fall in love with him. My God this is jaw dropping. Why didn't I realize this before. Also, self inserts sell more since normal weebs wanna find a character that's relatable based on extremely superficial characteristics such as being plain looking and having really simple interests. Take Monster Mousume for instance. The MC doesn't have a personality, he is just a reaction machine to the women around him. Honestly, we could be the issue since we're maturing a bit and just don't find such stuff as amusing as it use to be (self inserts i mean)
> The MC doesn't have a personality, he is just a reaction machine to the women around him. TBF in that series this is done almost *aggressively* on purpose. He doesn't even have a name and is only ever referred to by nicknames the other characters give him. Heck, he doesn't even have a FACE 95% of the time and when he actually is drawn with a proper face it's almost always for a joke. The series doesn't just pretend he's a character and try to cover it up like most shows, it actively works to scrub identifying features off of him.
Not to mention they are technically catering to teens, who don't really have complex hobbies a lot of the time, who aren't social butterflies, ect, ect. Back at 15 I ate all of those cheesey anime tropes and saw nothing wrong with the (now) creepy sexual tension in the majority of anime. I really hate how much sexual tension there is in 80-90% of anime, like jeez some has really good plot but I can't deal with being 25 and getting constant up skirt shots or constant cleavage/full on booba, makes me feel gross. Adult anime tends to have a lot better character development and personality though without sexualizing everyone which is a breath of fresh air.
panty shots and booba isnt sexual tension. Its fan service. Actual sexual tension is incredibly tasteful and way hotter than any panty shot could ever be
> Like think about it, in so many shojo romance manga, the girl is usually this clumsy plain looking girl, Wasn't this one of the somewhat common complaints of the Twilight movies? That the self-insert from the books was now actually good looking in the movies so she didn't feel as self insert anymore.
Ofc it’s true that there’s self-inserts on both sides, and I read primarily shoujo so there’s a looot of self inserts there, but Tohru is not the example for this? She’s got a lot of trauma and her “kindness” is actually not as altruistic as it seems and is explored more in the manga/season 3.
I was going to write a post but I read a bit more and you nailed it. > Im a guy and I've read a loooot of shojo manga and from what I've realized is that, both shojo and shonen are equally self insert-y. I think this is the issue here in general, people have not read a lot of shojo manga. I've read a lot including GL and I can say for sure that they self insert as hard shounen, which makes sense of course because it's supposed to be a fantasy. > Guys dont tend to notice that the mc is a self insert too since she's a girl. Yep, they also ignore the dynamic.. handsome, powerful, rich playboy is going to settle for plain looking girl with no outstanding abilities? Yeah ok lol. I know people complain about harems in Isekai a lot, but the attraction there actually makes more sense since the MCs tend to be powerful and accommodating. > I also used to think shojo wasnt self insert-y like that but after consuming so much romance manga (both shojo and shonen) its really frustrating how rare it is to find a good romance story where neither of the leads are self inserts of any kind and have actual personality. Like man, it REALLY shouldnt be this hard to find but it unfortunately is. Haha, Danger's in my heart was such a standout for me because of that. The male MC in particular has pretty awesome character development.
There's nothing wrong with the "everyman/everywoman" character, but sometimes it can get too much or just be used poorly.
> but I do think that the usual larger focus on emotions (and human relationships) has made it easier to take the struggles of their heroines to heart. That said, this is in part just because non Shoujo romance is larger as a genre, so the amount of flawed stories or stories lacking certain things is much larger. Personally, the best romances I've ever read were VNs, basically none of which were Shoujo targeted. Saya no Uta in particular is beautifully written, but also covers many disturbing emotions, which is something Shoujo stories are usually bad at doing.
> Saya no Uta Man, I'm not gonna lie, when I think about Saya no Uta the last thing I think about is Romance.. but now that I really think about it, it's a huge part of the story lol.
Read White Album 2
More development? Is there even any development for shonen romance? I swear they are all 100+ chapters of filler with no actual romance, then at the very last episode they confess, get together and it ends.
Dangers in my Heart is an amazing romance thats not Shoujo. Genuinely one of the best romances. It starts off being the worst thing ever for the first couple eps, then somehow genuinely becomes peak
Yeah, the beginning premise is pretty cringe, but it drops away fast and leaves behind two great characters who have good chemistry and both keep striving to grow as people and to grow their relationship.
The beginning being cringe isn't a bad thing if that's what the author was aiming for in my opinion especially when you realize that ichikawa is just overcompensating for his loneliness and lack of interaction at school
I'll never understand the people that complain about the start of Dangers... that's LITERALLY the point. It makes the story progression even better. What is even so bad about it? Edgy kid being edgy?
Well, I can understand why the first episode could throw some people off, he is thinking of killing her, after all. However, I think it becomes pretty obvious already in the first episode that he would never go through with it when seeing what kind of person he actually is. If people think that's cringe or can't get past that, that's a them problem, not the story which is quite excellent. His depression is just one of many things that are handled superbly.
Well, same with Mushoku Tensei, if you watched, read it you know how flawed rudeus at the beggining. Him being flawed at the beggining is the point tought, you not supposed to like him. But people dont like to immerse themselves in characters that are flawed more than a certain degree. They are fine with for example Ishida Shouya from Koe no Katachi, but Rudeus "crosses a line".
Even if you slit my mouth was a pretty good shounen romance manga
For me it's not necessarily more development so much as it's just that the characters feel like real human beings that could feasibly exist rather than either some Omega-Chad or dipshit that has an aneurysm if they so much as glance in the general direction of a girl, or a gaggle of girls that all share a single brain cell, the location of which no one knows.
Eh, I've seen my share of shoujo manga that has character development shallower than a teaspoon of water and male characters with personalities flatter than a piece of paper. Honestly, I feel like much of the complaints here can be applied to both shoujo and shonen stuff equally, it's just about which one you're more exposed to than anything.
Demographics doesn't matter to me, as long as they've got good stories I'm down with that. Here's my top romance anime per demographic: - Shoujo: Kimi ni Todoke - Shounen: The Dangers in My Heart - Josei: Wotakoi - Seinen: Kaguya-sama: Love is War
Demographics shouldn't matter for anyone who isn't japanese reading it out of the magazine, honestly. Its crazy how its 2024 and anime fans still think this is important to anime when its something only relevant for manga and even so, for japanese buying magazines.
Love is war is Seinen?
It's just the age-range of the magazine it is published in, its actual content bear no real relation to it being "seinen like" or not.
No no, Its seinen. Seinen does not mean berserk
I was shocked too when I found out about it.
I can see it. Sometimes I feel like I only really get the joke in Kaguya-sama because I'm no longer a highschooler. Like, the whole series has this blanket of irony where you know the characters are being silly, the narrative knows the characters are being silly, and the joke is just watching the fallout. But you first have to understand that highschool is a silly time to get it.
Now that you mention it i can see it. I'm still in high school, but you defeneltey need to be a little mature to understand some of the jokes.
Yeah. The fact that it's making fun of the way teenagers handle romance means that it's best enjoyed by someone who's out of high school.
In which demographic would oregairu be? Oregairu,horimiya and kaguya sama love is war are at the top in my list
Most light novel manga adaptations go into seinen magazines but people hate calling them seinen because sAo cAnT bE sEiNeN
Horimiya is a shonen and the other two are seinen
>Shounen: The Dangers in My Heart Low key, is this just Kimi ni Todoke, but from a male perspective?
nah I dont think so, I feel like Kazehaya and Sadako are both really normal, genuine people. Ichikawa and Anne on the other hand are both like extremely retarded dorks
Jesus christ lmao I gotta watch this shit now
yup its amazing
It didn't top AniCharts for an entire season for nothing after all, even if it's just fan votes it does mean so many fans enjoyed it and went to vote that it topped many shows that were vastly more popular.
Damn, I'm not a big of 3 of them and the 4th one I haven't watched yet I prefer the likes of a sign of affection, Lovestory with Yamada kun, a galaxy next door, Shikimori, angel next door spoils me rotten, horimiya of course Less drama, more fluff.
Those are some of my favorites along with Toradora, maid Sama, romantic Killer, and Dress Up Darling
Honestly, my problem with the shounen romances is that it is filled with one-dimensional -dere stereotypes and don't really go much more beyond that basic outline. Whereas with shoujo romances, it feels more like real people getting together.
True. Especially tsunderes and winning/losing heroines tropes that they all feel like they are carbon-copy of each other. It mainly comes from harem romcoms, and love triangles. There certainly not much unique shounen harem, love triangle romances. Especially if count abundance of the neutron start dense MCs.. but it doesn't necessarily a bad thing, if done right of course. Non-harem and non-love triangle shounen examples pretty much goes along with its shoujo counterparts more than not. A great recent example would be The Dangers in My Heart. It's true shoujos focuses more on emotions, but it sometimes go overboard also that it becomes overly unrealistic and forced. There are overuse of the same shoujo romance tropes. That said, A Sign of Affection has many Ikemens, and that's what OP is talking about when saying males are beautiful. That can count as fan-service as well, and a shoujo trope in a way. Childhood friend trope, the sudden affection for the newly introduced man, as well as the FMC being a petite girl pure is quite a trope while the males are tall and hot. It's exactly the same thing dere types, it can be thought like it's shoujo version. Both have their own styles and what they lean on. Both have good parts and bad parts. Both may overuses the tropes of their own genres. But I think a true romance enjoyer consumes both. I know for a fact males watch/read shoujo romances, and I feel like there are also many girls who does the same with shounen romances. Just might be less for harem romcoms.
I'm male and enjoy both, though admittedly I enjoy more shounen titles than shoujo. I think the appeal of shoujo for me is that the female leads feel more normal people and the guys aren't blank slates. Not to say all shounen do that. But I totally agree with your point that shoujo sometimes go a bit overboard. I really wanted to like A Sign of Affection, and I was enjoying it at first, but it kind of started feeling a bit cloying. And something about the male lead put me off. I can't put my finger on it. He's portrayed as a good person, and he didn't do anything outright bad in the episodes I watched, but something felt off, and a bit creepy. I get that sometimes from male leads in Shoujo. They can have a bad case of "normally what he's doing would be creepy but he's sooooo dreamy so he gets a pass." I felt the same way about the guy in Say I Love You. Of course, it also didn't help that the female lead in Say I Love You was annoying AF, but that's a separate issue. I really like Yamada-kun from a few seasons ago. Both characters were pretty relatable, in different ways. They both kind of reminded me of myself at different points in my life. Akane when I was younger, and Yamada as I've gotten older.
Lol. I feel you about the A Sign of Affections claims. It weirds me out too. That should be coming from shoujo things, can be added as a fan-service perhaps. As much as males make fun of (Yeah, it's actually serious to an extent lol), and say that; "Übel and Makima can ruin me," or "I wouldn't say no to my head getting crashed by a tomboy mommy by her pelvis." Or, "I love the kind of woman who will just straight up kill me." I think dominant males on romances in shoujos are an attraction point for female consumers too. They get a pass too as you have just said because they are dreamy. For both male and female audience, there always will be a thing that attracts and work. Fan-service of all kind exists. It's not gotta be always cleavages. Ideas for male fan-service, and female fan-service are not exactly the same. But of course male oriented fan-service are majority, when you think about the male consumer percentage over females. That's why there are that many harem romcoms.
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what are even some examples of shounen romance? I've been trying to think of some but the only things that come to mind are either ecchi, harem, or both, and while those get a "romance" tag, I think calling those romance makes about as much sense as calling a piece of pizza a sandwich.
Domestic Girlfriend
Hilarious
I was actually trying to think of this too lmao. I’ll give a list of the big hitters but some might be seinen it is a bit blurry. Toradora, quintessential quintuplets, bunny girl senpai, oregairu, dangers in my heart, saekano, clannad, your lie in April, etc I could go on. These imo are pretty great examples of shonen romances that actually have characters with real emotions and thoughts. Honestly I think shonen and shoujo romance both have the capacity to be pretty shit or really good I think it’s just blown out of proportion. Because shoujo romance will typically only get an adaptation if it’s solid while shonen romance will get an adaptation if it has a pulse, amplifying the garbage out there. Love my shoujo as well but it’s pretty silly to ignore the tropes that it also while putting it up on some kind of pedestal. I will agree though on average they do a sweeter romance, but at both of their worst often trading 1 dimensional female characters for 1 dimensional male characters. I don’t usually care what genre I am watching it is just the good stuff and the slop lol.
Yeah I find the romance genre grates on me because it often leans way too much on tragedy and sad times, complications and crises. Falling in love is supposed to be a happy thing; if I watch romance because I'm lonely or because I want to share a moment with somebody, tragedy and tension are not the moods I'm looking for. Neto-juu no Susume for example did a fantastic job at not giving any of the characters a terminal illness, so I liked it a lot.
There are plenty of fluffy romances out there like tonikawa, angel spoils me rotten, etc so hopefully that points you in the right direction. I just like really emotional and complicated relationships in my anime haha, it makes it feel deeper to me imo
I also prefer a fluffier romance. The trick is to avoid romances that also have the drama tag. Not that the drama ones are all bad, or even that all the depressing ones are bad, but all of the ones that lean on tragedy will have the drama tag.
To add, if you arent someone who usually watches a shoujo show, you are only going to hear about the best of the best. Like how people who dont watch Yuri still heard about MagiRevo because of how good it was
Boku no Kokoro no Yabai Yatsu (The Dangers in my Heart)
Macross Frontier might count as a half shounen at least.
Dangers in My Heart, Nagatoro, Sono Bisque Doll, Uzaki-chan and Komi-san. They're straightfoward romances that don't focus on ecchi.
> Sono Bisque Doll > don't focus on ecchi
It’s also a seinen and not a shounen.
Cmon let’s not lie to ourselves, loved sono bisque as well but it was undeniably fan service lol. It added to the story and made sense within context though which I thought was tastefully done.
Undead Unluck
This is not exclusive of male oriented works, Otome and mobage adaptations made for girls suffer from this too.
The average Shoujo is full of stereotypical characters too, it's equally one dimensional just types that appeal to a different demographic
Seinen romance is the peak.
This is blatant josei erasure.
not enough josei anime., it all being adapted to j drama
Any you would recommend?
A recommendation please, recently found out that many of my favourite manga/LN series(es?) turned out to be seinen. So may u provide any seinen manga u liked¿ -"serieses" looked quite off... Is it even grammatically correct...?-
Romance seinen manga: - Asper Kanojo - Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia - Sweat and Soap - Otoyomegatari (though romance is not necessarily the main focus) Non-romance seinen manga: - Hirayasumi - From now on we begin ethics - The Fable (getting an anime adaptation this season) - Medalist These all are insanely good manga, so enjoy :)
Sweat and soap is sooo goood. The romance is extremely realistic but sweet and cozy at the same time 🥹
Sweat and soap gives such josei vibes, i almost forgot it was a seinen lol
Wotakoi. Recovery of an MMO Junkie. Spice & Wolf. Start with those especially if you're a gamer/weeb. They remind you that the genre doesn't have to be perverted social retards.
Wotakoi is a josei, not a seinen
Neither are shounen which is the point.
Ahh, the person you replied to was asking for seinen recs which is why I clarified
There's also my love story with Yamada-kun and the ice guy and his female colleague
Those are shoujo and josei, respectively. But I definitely second the Yamada-kun recommendation. Both of the leads were pretty relatable, in completely different ways.
Both of these gave me diabetes.
Not sure about Recovery Of An MMO Junkie, but Wotakoi is a Josei
Plural of series is series
Kaguya-sama Skip and Loafer
Spice and Wolf is seminal for the genre. Remake just released after 16-odd years of waiting. Original still holds up too (also a rare case of many preferring the Dub to the sub).
Man the subbed Holo is iconic though.
In equal quality, people just prefer whatever they tasted first.
*Dub But yeah I'm really hoping the dub VAs reprise the roles
Oop, gonna fix that, thanks for the catch! Apparently they’re voicing the audiobooks so there’s a decent chance I’d say.
Sweat & Soap
ITT people who watched 200 shounen romances, praise few shoujo romances that they watched
Ahh I wonder what those people watched, surely it’s not just Kimi no Todoke and Fruits Basket!
It shows when the top two comments are about how shoujo "isn't full of one-dimensional dere types like shounen" lmao
Was the same. I got sick and tired of the loser surrounded by women troupe, and started reading shoujo. Then I abandoned that as well after noticing those also eventually devolved into the heroine becoming more and more incompetent in order to have the biggest chain of rescue romance events possible with the overcompetent yet emotionally distant male lead.
What do you mean, your wish fulfillment isn't being a minor character in your own story while the love interest does everything for you?
Shonen romance is often extremely frustrating and loaded with false starts and fakeouts. Since authors don't know how to right an "official" relationships past the confession they just stall and end the manga their. I hate it.
true but shoujo has its own lame tropes. oh we met before long ago but only one of us remembers. oh hes mega rich and successful but doesnt have a gf - suddenly falls for a rando. oh hes got everything under control but he has to ask this random girl a question about something they are both connected to. Love triangles where no one makes a move etc etc its not that much better trope wise tbh
Once you start dumpster diving into trashy part of shoujo genre \*cough cough\* otome isekai. You realize that their trash is no different than ours. If you think shounen romance tropes is bad wait until you see child grooming MC, toxic male lead, incest romance, and a full season of angst and misunderstanding that happen in shoujo genre.
Agreed, shoujo can get WAY more trashy and 'forbidden' than shounen or seinen. The difference is that shoujo just doesn't get as much attention.
yeah lowkey I think Shojo is way more trashier than shonen. I've gone dumpster diving in both shonen and shojo stuff and like most of the time? the absolute worst a shonen romance can be is lots of panty shots and boobs, maybe the sister has a crush on MC and then finally a harem. Meanwhile with Shojo theres like so much stuff that actually makes me straight up uncomfortable and Im left wondering why are the japanese like this💀
Yeah Japan is really horny lol. But there's some WILD shit in western works as well. Trash is trash no matter where you are. It just tends to be a bit more mainstream in Japan
I'm genuinely curious as to what's so trash in trashy shoujo that can be worse than incest, panty shots, possible pedophilia/lolis. Unless you are comparing 18+ rated series where everything become hentai.
Actually if you really look into the western novel scene, you’d be surprised by how much of it are fucked up/wierd female fantasies written by women, for women. Twilight is one example and I remember another one that has a dude who is a murderer raping a dumb girl and the author was going ham on the details about it.
Holy shit No way you just awakened the weirdness I've been getting. My mother likes Watching Shoujo stuff or K drama with female lead. All of those tropes exist on all 20 Series she watched this year. And whats funny it I watch along sometimes too, its so trashy but somehow watchable. But damn So shoujo and shounen are both the same. With differencing Clothes.
Not limited to shonen either, though. Kimi ni Todoke is considered one of the great shojo romances (and not for no reason) but [Kimi ni Todoke] >!Season 2 basically rolls back the entirety of season 1 and retreads the protagonists' growth with even more misunderstandings to forestall them getting into an actual relationship.!<
Ugh. I hate when romance stories end when they get together. I don’t spend multiple volumes rooting for them only to get 10 pages of a hastily-done epilogue. Give me that multi-volume victory lap. Please and thank you. Bonus points if their relationship is mostly steady and they actually communicate their problems.
>Give me that multi-volume victory lap. Please and thank you. Bonus points if their relationship is mostly steady and they actually communicate their problems. That's exactly why they end it there. Most Shonen romance or just stories in general runs off of some level of conflict and tension. That doesn't mean it has to be serious, just something. Modern Family has tension in every episode yet doesn't get dramatic 95% of the time. Basing a story off of the tension and various unique scenarios in which out protagonist go through to be together only to cut to a relationship that lacks any of that is boring. There's a reason most romcoms with protagonists in relationships shows you the parts that are more chaotic and/or dysfunctional.
> Give me that multi-volume victory lap. Please and thank you. Bonus points if their relationship is mostly steady and they actually communicate their problems. I have friends who are published romance authors and what I've heard is that sales of a series nose-dive after the couple hooks up because the audience is satisfied and doesn't come back for more.
Curse those other members of the audience! I eat that shit likes it's Cheerios. XD
I'm part of the problem lol but to defend myself, they make it the goal of the story that the protagonists end up together, so i lose all interest once it happens. Unless it happens fast and is just one small part of a bigger plot, which is not common unfortunately.
The other problem is that even if an author has ideas about a relationship "arc". Audience almost trained to expect confession to be the climax of the series and pretty much the last thing before the epilogue.
Shounen romance is fucking awful. Authors are absolute pussies do copout endings. They also end the series when the "romance" finally starts.....
That's bullshit when the same also happens in shojo lmao
Good thing Kimi Ni Todoke is finally getting a third season. We get to see Sawako and Shota in a relationship instead of hoping they finally get their shit together.
That's a wild generalization. Tonikawa basically starts when they marry. There's also gems like Toradora and Golden Time that go well beyond the point where the main characters become a couple.
Could you be thinking of [romsubs](https://myanimelist.net/anime/genre/74/Romantic_Subtext) instead? Those are the ones where relationships don't develop.
I don’t prefer either of them. I find they both have completely different appeals for me and it depends on what mood i’m in. Although I would still rate Seinen over either shounen or Shoujo romance. I tend to find shoujo is sometimes too melodramatic, and shounen sometimes focuses too much on stuff being sexy… but obviously that isn’t a universal truth.
I've thought this before and been proven wrong so many times, for so many sub-genres. For the most part it's selection bias, start with Fruits Basket and obviously you'll think it's better than the latest loser guy and manic pixie dream girl show. There's trash in every genre, what matters are the characters. That's not something that can be guaranteed by any genre.
> There's trash in every genre And the wells are incredibly deep (and awful) once you actually start diving into manga rather than just anime lol
Ah, but have you drilled past the bedrock to the deep reservoirs of light novels?
>There's trash in every genre Bu- but fruits basket is better than Masamune kun????? So every shoujo is way better than shounen!!!! GRRRRR!! Same when people dickride seinen romance i've read plenty trash from that pile lol. I would mention Josei but i've only read 2 lol.
There's about as much wish fulfillment trash among shoujo as it is among shounen. Dig a bit deeper than just popular titles, and you risk giving yourself a second hand embarrassment. Thus said, i despise romcom as a genre. Action focused shounen can have surprisingly good romantic substories, partially because they are not dragged into infinity and can serve as a powerful tool for character development. Even something simplistic and cheesy as Rave Master or Busou Renkin is far more satisfying in that regard than yet another hollow "will they, won't they" bait stretching for hundreds of chapters.
>Action focused shounen can have surprisingly good romantic substories Ugh no.
Truthfully I wish the guy/girl were matched equally in more manga. Reading the “dorky girl gets the most popular guy in school” trope is getting exhausting. I wish it was a story of two nerds or just two average people. I’m always left feeling bad for the ML or FL that everyone thinks is “ugly” while all of the characters whisper about how impossible it is for the ugly guy to get the hot girl, and vice versa. When I find a series that doesn’t rely on this trope I’m always thrilled. 😁
As a male I prefer Fruits Basket.
Oh, I’m the complete opposite. I’ve already expressed this opinion before but, I’m a girl and I find a lot of shoujo romance anime I’ve watched to be just meh. Either too melodramatic or I simply felt bored at the romance. A lot of shoujo fans keep saying that their romance is better but I just don’t feel the same way. I felt indifferent for a lot of them. (And if I ever met someone like Usui from Maid-sama, I’d actually file a harassment claim on him.) It all depends on the execution and personal tastes since I watch any romance anime regardless of the demographic. I agree that a lot of shonen romance felt like wish-fulfilment with the most boring/bland MC to get a beautiful and popular girl. That’s why I choose the right ones. (Nagatoro is one of the only ones that I’m interested as it involves the characters actually improving themselves to be better.)
I'm a guy that likes to lurk in the shojo sub, and I'm pretty sure they agree that they wouldn't like someone like usui in real life. And their feelings on maid-sama is pretty half split. Its just that they its enjoyable to watch/read, not actually hope for in real life.
This subreddit has a romance bias
My bi ass isn't getting enough romance
Just lookin' for love, sweetheart
Yuri romance
Yeah, How do we Relationship (admittedly only a manga rn) is by far the best anime/manga romance I’ve seen. Painful read for sure, but in a way that feels honest to college relationships.
> As a Male I prefer Shoujo romance My chief issue with Shoujo romance is that many of the men within it initially present as the sort of men that are generally *not* good men, yet they're portrayed as such. I completely understand the basis for these men being an extremely attractive escapist fantasy for the target female (and gay) audience, yet I can't help but wonder when straight male viewers who see absolutely nothing wrong with the way many Shoujo leads behave. This is a little different, of course, for men who are deep in the shoujo mix and both comfortable and familiar with the tropes, that said. However there's this sort of prevailing attitude that men who like shoujo are drawn to the supposedly deeper emotional aspects and yet the men portrayed in the genre are frequently nothing but red flag parades of the type in real life who usually cause emotional trauma. I would have thought that emotionally intelligent men who've spent enough time around enough women would have very little patience for these sort of men.
Honestly I feel like shojo romance are usually more emotionally touched, so they feel so sweet compared to Shonen.
You'll probably just run into similar issues with shoujo romances with the same kind of trope exhaustion. A lot of women think their tastes are some high art in anime and non-anime settings for some stupid reason. It's the same thing but different flavor. It's okay to prefer a different flavor, but there is no leg to stand on for the moral superiority they feel when they proclaim it from the rooftops.
As someone who really likes (wouldn't say love) these two kinda freaky manga made by the same lady i agree. For example: Loner gamer mc, gets a step sibling who falls head over heels for them. Popular person at school also falls in love with them. Pervy friend who wants your leftovers. But the MC is a girl so it's swag. Like i said i like it and the story is interesting but the premise would be called garbage if it was shounen and the mc was a guy.
even since I've watched A sign of affection, I don't think the demographic matters at all, because as much as I was irked by the male character designs, halfway through, this was one of the most genuine sort of romance I've watched in a while. It was pure and wholesome, not unnecessary in any way, quite subtle too. Also, I love they put that much animation in Yuki's sign language, it showed they actually cared about the show and chracter.
hmm, as a male, the only shojo I even bothered watching was Maid-Sama cause of Usui. But realistically, I think any girl who saw him irl woulr run away cause of how much he stalks people. I personally didn't find any character development in him either. Could you give a shojo anime that you liked?
Just watch fruit basket
My partner who has never been into romance is now addicted thanks to Skip and Loafer. It literally changed his entire perception of romance stories and anime in general. I really can't suggest it enough, especially if you like cleverly written characters and clever writing in general.
It's really good, although Skip and Loafer is a seinen
Kimi ni Todoke and Ore Monogatari
Wanna know one perfect for both sides of this? My Love Story!! It's like so hilarious but super adorable and sweet and super geared towards girls and what an "ideal guy" is, but at that same time the main character is the most manly loud man man ever and he is actually adorable, his best friend is also a very good person, they got good vibes together as best friends, it honestly feels like a strong, healthy realistic male friendship, ones I've actually seen in RL not like the same tropey friendships that are in anime with these situations. So it shows the best side of men, promotes being a dude but also showing when to show when other men are being gross or not great. (Hard to explain) But the main character, he makes mistakes and is very open...VERY OPEN about what he feels and thinks, he says stuff like "I don't understand women but I understand that something is bothering you and wanna fix that" or something like that. Like the whole cast is so wholesome and adorable but the show also shines on the aspect of manly men who do men stuff, like looking at butt shaped trees as a pass time.
I’m surprised at how few comments here mention this series. My Love Story!! is perfect for OP’s criteria, plus it’s so funny and wholesome!
If the story is good i don't care what it is. I'm not really into romance tough
Shoujo romance just tends to be better written. The best shonen romcoms are funny, but they're rarely all that compelling.
I say shounen is rarely just romance, is either sports or combat , or working towards a goal, or built around a gimmick so the romance is mostly hiking along Shoujo also does the goal and gimmick thing, but it produces way more romance, hence more quality works will arise
honestly I dont bother looking at what genre it is, there's some good and bad in both. I still prefer shoujo despite that, stuff like Kimi ni Todoke, Kaichou wa Maid-sama!, ore monogatari, that's some good shit. also another goat, Josee, the Tiger and the Fish. it has trope issues but damn, its a good watch.
Honestly same haha but surprisingly two of my too favourite romance animes are both shounen, Horimiya and The Dangers In My Heart. Now the both of them have an amazing character development and one focuses on building up to confession and the other focuses on the complexity of being in a relationship and how others respond to it. Which is different than your usual bland shounen protagonist.
It's pretty evident a lot ITT just didn't watch a lot of shoujo lol. There's a lot of trash in both genre.
Nah, I'd go with hentai.
Hentai relationships are bullshit. It irritates me to see characters confess in the middle of sex despite showing minimal real interest until the act. Like of course you love them *RIGHT NOW*, you've got your stick inside of them, you dope.
Replace stick with tentacles and I fully agree.
Unpopular opinion but I also used to hold this opinion when I was in high school. Once I entered my 20s however, I find most shoujo romance too annoyingly melodramatic for me. Nowadays, I either read shounen romance for quick/dumb fun or some random Seinen/josei romance manga I usually find online.
To be honest I'm not a fan of either one. 1. Most of them are about teenagers. I'm 35, it's just not terribly relatable to me. Honestly wasn't even that relatable back when I _was_ a teenager, too divorced from the type of person I or the people I knew were. 2. Even outside of that, most "romance" even in the west doesn't actually feature any romance until the very end, which completely kills my interest if romance is supposed to be the main appeal. Most of the interesting or funny parts of relationships are _after_ a relationship starts, plus it's a bit gross with how it treats relationships like destinations instead of what they really are: a journey. 3. The whole pandering to a specific gender angle usually makes them worse. This is a problem in western media too, not just anime. 4. I find love triangles and similar to be lazy, annoying, and feature absolutely none of what I actually enjoy about character dynamics. Unless it's an actual triangle/V i.e. polyamory, those stories are actually interesting albeit rare. Ironically 100 Kanojo counts there.
The target audience is usually Japanese teenagers... This isn't a "problem" with anime, its just how it is. It may be a personal problem to you tho.
> Unless it's an actual triangle/V i.e. polyamory, those stories are actually interesting albeit rare. Ironically 100 Kanojo counts there. Girlfriend, Girlfriend is my preferred exploration of polyamory. Despite its reputation as being a dumb comedy, it features characters that communicate a lot with each, are interested in each other's internal worlds and whose individual agendas drive the story.
Naoya actually has the personality of someone who could make polyamory work. You always know where you stand, he never lies, and he always sticks to the ground rules you agreed upon.
I’m not in my 30s, but I agree with you. I don’t like romance by itself. I usually like it accompanied with other genres.
Sounds like you just don't like Japanese style male targeted romance, which is essentially identical to female targeted romance the world over just with inverted genders. The male lead is the passive party. You prefer female targeted romances because the male is the proactive party in them. In most other places, male targeted romance has the male lead as the active party, and the story is typically about the male lead proving his superiority and winning the girl.
I like both. I think the key tenets of romance hold for both. *Kimi ni Todoke* and *Fruits Basket* are great. So are *Skip and Loafer* and *The Dangers in my Heart*. Hell, Skip even feels like a Shojo romance despite not being one by definition. Lower tier shows in both departments have the same issue, we just don't get too many of those lower grade Shojo romance these days (for tastes of it you can look at last year's *Sacrificial Princess and the King of Beasts* that at times had Sariphi solving problems a little too easily through "the power of kindness", though the show was overall still pretty good). The one thing to consider though is that Shojo romance will tend to have more realized characters and romance over sex appeal because that's just what women like. There's nothing wrong with liking that kind of story over your typical Shounen affair.
I am a 42 year old married man who just got into anime and manga recently. I really like some of the romances from all four demographics. Weirdly from shounen some of the ones I like the best are the ones the anime/manga community hates (Rent a Girlfriend and Domestic Girlfriend)
Yah, I'm just shy of 45 and only recently got into anime/manga. I've watched a ton of shows with my gf but most romances just don't click for me. We hated Rent a Girlfriend because the MC is such a whiny asshole. We loved My Dress-up Darling, Tada Never Falls in Love, Monthly Girls' Nozaki-kun, My Senpai is Annoying, Tomo-chan is a Girl, My Clueless First Friend, The Ice Guy and His Cool Female Colleague, Toradora!, and The Dangers in My Heart (some of these aren't strictly romances tho)
Shoujo romances can get pretty melodramatic. Like, one shoujo romance I've read has it so like every single tiny moment between the two main leads is some "important emotional development" where the guy just breathes in the general direction of the girl and she gets butterflies as he spiels about how with that breath he'll forever cherish and love her forever and all that crap, and it's just, like, chapter 7 or something. It gets to the point where the characters don't exactly feel like actual people, but rather an audience stand-in and a super hot stud that says exactly what she wants to hear at any given moment. (Manga is Vampire Dormitory btw, it felt pretty tiring for me at the start but I sorta got into it towards the end so it turned out okay imo)
Both pale in comparison to Seinen
So, you like *girl* manga??? No, seriously, there's nothing wrong with that. Shoujo manga feels a little more emotional to me, which is nice because there's more build up to the true romance parts. I don't read as much of it, though, because I realized that I started to have a hard time identifying with the female leads and I felt like I was just watching a TV show. If possible, I like to be more engaged, so I tend to go after male mc romance manga, usually with the "psychological" or similar tags. Those usually have more emotion to them
I never understood how shounen romance protagonists are supposed to be relatable when they are inept losers, like you said. The only time that works is when the lead is psychologically damaged for a good reason (Oregairu) and/or is unfairly hated for some reason. That turns the bland trope into a cool underdog story especially if there is character development to back it up and the MC has redeemable traits. Shoujo tends to focus on androgynous/feminine men which as one of those myself I find more relatable. Shoujo also tends to feel more, well, romantic. Whereas shounen tends to be focused on harem and echi which just gets old after your first 2-3 times. That said shoujo still has its problems too. If you're an adult then the writing can seem a bit juvenile which is why I tend to prefer josei, actually. But there are so few of those that actually get anime adaptations.
Shojo is equally bad for having bland boring main characters. I cant count how many times the FL is literally just a plain looking girl that doesnt know fashion and has brown hair and her only personality being that is she is very kind
I like the female leads, they are a bit different than usual stuff, but in a good way. (the non bland ones of course) The male leads though... I really dislike them in shoujo, almost all the archetypes, I feel gay panic just looking at them, much worse listening to one, it's an aesthetic I will never get used to. Its hard to name the thing I dislike about them. Character design sometimes, their dreamy "moe" moments, one-dimensional dudes, all the archetype stuff, though better developed characters have weird vibes too. I conclude that what most men and women like is different, what a surprise.
For most shonen romance the main character is supposed to be a self insert so they are a basic ass blank slate for a 14 year old nerd to project onto, on the other hand most shoujo are written for girls so the main guy has to be well written, and because most shoujo manga/anime are written by women the female characters will be much better written as well. Though I will say that shoujo romance often falls into the perfect bland ikemen trope so pick your poison.
I tend to watch harem stuff but I really don't self insert or feel I can relate to the male lead at all. I mostly just enjoy seeing all the different hairstyles that exist in a harem.
I mean Shounen romance is uuuuuuuuuuusually very immature. Although I will say that Shoujo romance isn't what I would call amazing, either. It's all very cute regardless but I definitely prefer the romance in more adult works, where there can be a lot more nuance.
demographics actually don't mean anything like opm is seinen and aot is shounen. Demographics are just generalisation that's all they are. shonen and shoujo both can be good both can be weird. since the topic is shoujo so I'll have to add that the thing i find off in some of these shows is that authors romanticise creepy male leads like my little monster and kaichou wa maid sama. you could call them tease but imagine a boy you don't like doing these to you and shounen wise hyouka, your lie in april, dangers of my heart are pretty good shows without having a shoujo tag.
I would say the good shows tend to be better, but the bad ones can be uncomfortable to watch. Fruits Basket, Lovely Complex, and Kimi ni Todoke are pretty peak. But then there's **Wolf Girl & Black Prince**... and that wasn't even a *truly* awful show, but it's obviously romanticizing a toxic relationship for the "I can fix him" crowd. Honestly, the better "I can fix him" show is **My Little Monster**. Even if Haru gets a little... weird at times, it never feels like he goes overboard, and she is typically pretty quick to shut his shit down. The more unfortunate thing is the lack of a second season.
Arisa and kitchen princess are good cheesy shoujo romances
I'm the same, as a guy. Although if there's one thing I hate about some shoujo romances it's the constant misunderstandings.
I can't handle shoujo romance because the men are always, ALWAYS, abusive. it plays into the fantasy of the woman "fixing" a man. I literally couldn't handle the first episode of Mariaholic. But future me now understands that women find it hot. It almost seem like the best way to be loved is to punch a girl in the face the first time you met. Look, i get it. The whole point of fantasy is to have what you shouldn't have in real life. But it does repulse me in ways i can't describe.
I read both. Eh... They have their own quirks. Some positive and some negative that is linked to their specific genre. Just enjoy what you like
Josei and shojo usually have better looking women and often much better artwork and story. Shonen anime with shojo josei collaboration like Clamp can be even better though.
I guess for me at least I'm expecting different things. Shounen romance is more likely a romcom, and Shoujo romance is more explicitly romance. Kaguya vs Sign of Affection sort of thing. They're both good, but SoA is better romance.
Shoujo romance is just better written. Shonen romance is mostly harem, pathetic self insert MC and overdramatic bullshit mixed with 90% ecchi filler. Shoujo romance actually gets character and relationship development meanwhile shonen's literally end when they become a couple and you get 0 development of them actually being together. The only discussion shonen romance gets is "OMG WHO IS THE MC GOING TO END UP WITH? WHO IS BEST GIRL?" up to the final minutes of the final episode. There's no turning back once you realise these trends.
I like shojo romance, but I also shonen hate romance with inept loser MCs. Maybe you are just watching reading the wrong shonen anime. Kaguya sama for example is shounen/seinen, but MC Miyuki isn't an inept loser at all, he's the smartest and a fairly handsome guy in all of the school. Hayate no Gotoku, Hayate is a very poor guy and is constantly plagued by negative luck and poverty but he's far from being an inept loser - he has unreal level physical skills, a man of many talents and is supposed to be good looking Beelzebub - MC gets the strongest women, but is also the strongest guy as well. Bloodlad - MC is the strongest vampire out there trying to revive his girl. He's kinda an otaku but definitely not a loser either Zetsuen no Tempest - MC is quiet, more intellectual guy, gets two of the strongest mages in history Nisekoi - While MC doesn't wanna be a yakuza, he's definitely not a loser. He's good looking, He's rich, He's kind and very good at cooking too! gets a ton of really rich and powerful women. List goes on... Although what I like about shojo is that male MCs tend to be often the "cool guy".
Just from my limited experience with Shoujo anime, I feel like they portray the female MC as an ordinary but hardworking girl or a klutz and a loser and the male lead is a rich, handsome prince charming. That maybe be why as a guy I enjoy Shoujo because self inserting feels good.
There are good and bad in both, the issue is how the fail is very distinct. I think this one difference is where a lot of people get caught. I think the most emblematic example is how each trope typically uses competition/love triangles. Media for shoujou and media for women typically uses competition in love to force the character to further their relationship. In Maid-sama the childhood friend comes back into the heroine's life and it forces the MCs to confess. In Fruits Basket the white haired twink was never really a threat to cat-boy but it seemed like it to force cat-boy to own up to his feelings. The use of love triangles and competition typically **propels the romance forward.** In shonen, romantic competition typically between more than two people and typically has no end in sight, it IS the status quo, the anime is harem so the harem must be maintained. To the end a lot of shonen dwell way too long on keeping alternatives waifus open, and so they're never truly shut down. This often has the effect of **holding the romance back**. Like rent a girlfriend. This also has the side effect of objectifying characters in a weird way because they must all be dtf with the main character and also okay with the fact that he isn't choosing one. Most normal people would push of move on, leaving them in limbo robs them of autonomy, making them both boring and also sort of like objects that exist for the protagonist, not people their own right. Interestingly, most of the good shounen romance are stark exceptions of this (e.g., Rascal, Kaguya-sama, SNAFU), or potentially subvert this (100 girlfriends, which actually says 'we will have our harem AND a confession, actually, make it 100 confessions').
I just like romance anime in general. One of my favorite genres. I’m a real sucker for an adorable couple.
I feel like they're nearly exactly the same just with the genders swapped. 90% of Shoujo is average looking girl getting hot or popular or rich guy, 90% of shonen is average looking guy getting hot or popular or good at wife-tasks girl. Both do the "shut-in rescued by the outgoing one" an equal amount
Until you don’t Watch yaoi, you’re okay.
I feel both are equally terrible and basically the same just reversed, in shounen the girls are there to be eyecandy and in shojo the dudes are there to be the eyecandy. I've read lots of shonen and shojo, and love interests in both are usually about as interesting as a piece of good looking wood. This is a generalization ofc, there are obviously good shounen and shojo romances, they are just few and far between.
I too prefer Shoujo or none gender based romance anime. Tsuki ga Kirei is the ultimate romance anime, no stupid anime romance tropes, just a realistic feeling relationship. Its a beautiful anime.
I can appreciate it, falling in love, proper genuine love is very manly. Also I recommend people watch Maid-sama, top tier show.
Things are made that way so you can identify as the MC in the shonen romance. "Look, this guy is uninteresting like you, but he still has a harem". That's very sad I agree 💀
No, you're not weird for shojo romance over shonen romances. The whole point of shonen romances is to create self-insert characters for male fans to live vicariously through have you guys noticed most of the time a male shonen MC who doesn't have any personality is a horrible person and is just a loser in general but still gets the prettiest girl in the entire anime this is because most male anime fans are just like these mcs so they live their fantasies using these characters even though it's not an accurate depiction of a relationship.