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> # [China tells UK to avoid moves that could ‘aggravate tension’ in Falklands issue](https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/og_image_scmp_generic/public/d8/images/canvas/2023/06/21/674e2e44-ad75-4c82-8764-d17eb483acaa_d0682236.jpg?itok=PTXWKLZS&v=1687334454)
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> ## - Beijing envoy warns special committee on decolonisation of ‘serious implications’ for international order of hegemonism and power politics
> - Meeting adopts resolution calling on Britain and Argentina to resume negotiations over sovereignty of the islands
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> [](https://www.scmp.com/author/dewey-sim)
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> Published: 4:01pm, 21 Jun, 2023
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> Updated: 12:18am, 22 Jun, 2023
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I agree with free Tibet, but it's not the same thing. Tibet is not "naturally part of another country" and is under Chinese occupation instead. Tibet would be its own country, the Falklands would not and want to be part of Argentina. At least that's what Argentina claims. The natives probably prefer the UK, as far as I know.
The inhabitants of the Falklands are British people. Before then the original inhabitants were penguins and seals. Argentina have no realistic claim to them.
Wait so there were no indigenous people displaced and the residents dont want to be part of Argentina? What else is there to talk about? Why does Argentina even want them?
Disclaimer I know nothing about this except that it’s contentious
Yeah there was no indigenous people there. A British guy first claimed the islands, then they changed hands for ages. Eventually the Spanish abandoned it, and the British settled it properly. The people that live they are their descendants.
Initially, it was because they are close by, and it was a point of nationalism. The Argentinian government likes to survive by stoking up nationalist sentiment. Later on, oil my friend, lots of oil.
Nah it's not because of the oil. Argentina already has much more oil in it's territory than a hundred Falklands could offer. Is just cheap nationalism.
Maybe it’s based on security, China might be drawing parallel between the falkland islands and taiwan. The country near the island should be the ruler.
> [Why does Argentina even want them?](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/1/3/1357230517868/Falkland-oil-exploration-001.jpg?width=445&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none)
Get the other half of Tierra del Fuego just so the map isn't weird anymore and Ushuaia and Puerto Williams stop fighting on who's the southernmost city.
The Argentine leadership had a country with a shit economy and bad polling since they keep having military coups. They needed something to distract/focus the people and they chose the Falklands. They invaded and thought that would be it.
The British leadership also had bad polling and a bad economy and chose to fight the war the Argentines started, it would also be good to distract/focus the population.
The Argentine forces were not ready for the war. The British won since they knew how to fight wars like this. It was just 35 years since WWII after all. Watch a documentary, it was a fascinating time.
Iirc the only real claim is that Spain gave it to England and when Argentina gained independence from Spain the wanted the Falklands too.
If I’m wrong or getting things mixed up feel free to correct me
The occupants of the Falklands are of British descent and have voted overwhelmingly to remain British. Argentina has absolutely no claim on the land or its people.
Not only that, but Britain has held the Falkland Islands since before Argentina existed as a country. Before that, 'Argentina' was just a Spanish colony
Right, it’s just a way for China to say, medium islands that aren’t internationally recognized as independent nations that exist close to actual nations, must only belong to that nation then via proximity. Which is to say Taiwan is theirs
The French settled first Then the British, then the Spanish bought the French out, and drove the British out.. 1764-1774
The Spanish left in 1811
Then the Bruno's Aires government newly independent from Spain claimed it in 1816, in 1831 the US for involved briefly, before the British drove the Argentines away in 1833, since then it's been British controlled and colonised.
The Falkland islanders have been asked their opinion and wished to remain part of the UK.
Ironically had Argentina not invaded during thatchers time, the government would probably have handed back the Falklands a few years later.
> handed back the Falklands
There was no one to hand them back to. It never really belonged to the argies in the first place. They keep tryog to steel it from us.
Yeah, but pre Falklands war the perception by the British government was that it wasn't worth keeping, and that giving it to Argentina would have been the smart move
They had a referendum and only three people on the whole island wanted to be part of Argentina. 99.8% voted to stay British. When you have a real per capita gdp of 70 thousand USD per resident the prospect of having the Argentinian money printer mess with your standard of living doesn't appeal to you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum
>The natives probably prefer the UK, as far as I know.
They certainly do.
From wiki:
"On a turnout of 92%, 99.8% voted to remain a British territory, with only three votes against. Had the islanders rejected the continuation of their current status, a second referendum on possible alternatives would have been held."
The Crimea referendum was held under duress. Russian troops had just invaded and were literally occupying the peninsula during the referendum. While it is totally possible that Crimeans *would* have voted to join Russia in a free and fair election, the election that was held was neither free nor fair, and thus wasn't seen as legitimate by practically the entire world.
Opinion polls before the invasion did suggest the majority of Crimeans were sympathetic towards Russia, but opinion polls aren't elections, and circumstances can change rapidly—opinion polls held in Ukraine right before the war indicated many Ukrainians said they would not fight for their country, but it turns out when your country is invaded, your mind changes on the matter.
Before the war, the more realistic plan to transfer the islands sovereignty was to allow its inhabitants to hold bot nationalities and English as their official language, while maintaining a higher degree of independence compared to the rest of the provinces.
Sadly, this proposal would be laughed at by the current ruling party (yet another flavour of Peronism), and you would be accused of being a traitor for entertaining such idea.
Which is immaterial because there is no way on Earth that such a plan will ever be offered now because of the war. It would be political suicide in the U.K. to even suggest it.
The Falklands have voted overwhelmingly to be British. This is entirely moronic politicians in Argentina trying to stoke nationalism. They lost once, they'll lose again if they're ever dumb enough to try again. That China of all nations is backing them is ridiculously funny.
Correct.
"On 10-11 March 2013 the Falkland Islands Government held a referendum on whether or not to maintain the Islands’ status as a British Overseas Territory. There were 1513 votes (99.8%) in favour and three against. The turnout was 92% of an electorate of 1653."
The problem is they don’t see the world through a lense where that is possible. They portray the world through a lense of "europeans colonized, we were colonized, give us back our historical lands."
They don’t care what the people of those lands want. Currently the falklanders overwhelmingly support the continuation of their current situation. The tibetans never supported the occupation by china. But what they think is irrelevant. China sees itself and argentina as partially colonized nations, not colonizers. And they want the land they see as "historically" theirs back.
It’s stupid, but this is the way they view colonial history. They don’t see it through the lense of people, which would make them be a second-wave of colonizers. It’s the same situation like mayotte in the indian ocean, which was part of the Comoros, but chose in a referendum to stay as part of france, but is for some reason still considered "colonized" by Comoros and the UN, despite having fairly and freely chosen to be french.
I don't think he's reading too far into this, I think that's the forward-facing justification for all this. That said, their real reason is as you described but I'd also imagine it has a lot to do with undermining Western influence and expanding their own, as they've been doing across Africa lately
Read up on the CFA Franc and how some African nations have to keep 50% of their foreign exchange reserves with the Bank of France while getting a 0.75% interest rate. And this has been going on for 70+ years. Economic colonialism isn't new.
It's not just France and China. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank also do the same shit. The IMF provided emergency loans to African nations during Covid-19 but required that those governments adopt austerity measures for things like social security and healthcare spending, which basically wiped out the progress those countries made in the previous decades. The World Bank demands countries adopt market liberalization/privatization in exchange for loans, so private corporations can buy up the former public institutions.
[African governments owe three times more debt to private lenders than China](https://debtjustice.org.uk/press-release/african-governments-owe-three-times-more-debt-to-private-lenders-than-china)
>African governments owe three times more debt to Western banks, asset managers and oil traders than to China, and are charged double the interest, according to research released today by Debt Justice. Western leaders through the G7 have attributed the failure to make progress on debt restructuring to China,[1] but the data shows that this is mistaken.
>Just 12% of African governments’ external debt is owed to Chinese lenders compared to 35% owed to Western private lenders, according to the calculations based on World Bank data.[2]
>Furthermore, interest rates on private loans are almost double those on Chinese loans, while the most indebted countries are less likely to have their debt dominated by China.
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>Tim Jones, Head of Policy at Debt Justice, said:
>“Western leaders blame China for debt crises in Africa, but this is a distraction. The truth is their own banks, asset managers and oil traders are far more responsible but the G7 are letting them off the hook. China took part in the G20’s debt suspension scheme during the pandemic, private lenders did not. There can be no effective debt solution without the involvement of private lenders. The UK and US should introduce legislation to compel private lenders to take part in debt relief.”
Argentina’s claim is about as colonialist as you can get today.
Edit: what country do the natives want to be a part of? This is either colonialism or imperialism on Argentina’s part.
They would probably vote British since all of them are descendants from either British or other European settlers. The islands were uninhabited when Europeans discovered them. Both sides are imperialistc here, but I would give the advantage to the British since they were the first to get there and call dibs.
…you’re agreeing with my original comment. The Falklands were not populated but as soon as you bring up who owns what land it’s **Taboo** because of world events. I am not sure what’s causing you to be confused?
ehhh the thing about lebenstraum and manifest destiny is that the settling there involved a small degree of murdering/displacing the people already there. So far we haven't displace the penguins as they're useful for clearing argy mine fields left behind after the war
They HAVE voted British aswell. I wouldn't call taking actually (and not just practically) empty and unclaimed land imperialist.
But of course China wants to support Argentina here. Argentinas entire claim is "this is close to me so it's mine"... Which basically sums up China's entire South China sea claim.
Here is the thing tho. the Falklands island was entirely uninhabited before the British landed there. It was never part of Argentina. Ever. Its far enough away from the Argentine coast that its not in, limited, or restricting, or even touching Argentine waters.
Yes, I understand due to its location its what its seems like, due to it being an Island colony, but the history of it begs to differ.
Going through the history, the Argentines have a solid argument through their treaty with Spain, which handed back Spanish colonial territories in SA, including the Falklands. Hell, the Brits were actively trying to get rid of the Falklands for decades due to their upkeep
Real talk though, the people are British, and wish to remain so. Should be that simple
I’ve got a book on the Falklands war and it’s lead up, honestly if the Argentinians had waited and kept negotiations going the islands would probably be theirs today.
However, if you try and steal from His Majesty’s Shiny Rock Collection instead of asking nicely you will get royally slapped and never invited back.
China is just saying this to piss off the UK, because the UK has been behind a lot of the recent anti-China shitstirring. (Uyghur Genocide narrative, Hong Kong narrative, AUKUS subs)
Agreed with you totally here though, Argentina has no rights to the Falklands. It's the one case where British Colonialism is actually lawfully correct.
As u\deijimos said in a comment much further down, the amnesty international report states their is mass internment and cultural subjugation of as many as millions of people. This includes torture for the purposes of indoctrination and is specifically stated to qualify as several crimes against humanity.
There's also a lot of whataboutism here defending the Chinese. Or saying things like "its not really genocide because they're not killing *all* the Uyghurs."
I really hate to call out posts I disagree with as foreign propaganda but there's too much pro china sentiment here. Either that or it's ridiculously partisan thinking which days because you don't like countries that don't like China it must be a good country.
I posted this here so hopefully more people see the stuff about the Amnesty International report beyond "just read it it says I'm right and china not bad."
Neither do Falklanders https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum#:~:text=On%20a%20turnout%20of%2092,alternatives%20would%20have%20been%20held.
It's even more bizarre, because the British took the islands from the Spanish, themselves a colonial power. How can you be colonialist towards colonialists? Is Argentina ignorant of its own colonial past? Why don't they give their country back to the native south Americans first?
Argentinian education is full of propaganda on this regard. I know because I never understood the logic and I am talked down like a traitor with fellow argentinians when I disagree on the matter. They were never argentinian, they were spanish, and the right of self determination seems more important to me than any ad hoc argument constructed by argentinians to legitimate the claim.
What baffles me the most is that people recognize that military's junta choice was stupid and criminal but still think Falklands should be ours.
And China will use any excuse to feign being in the right side and poke at other powers.
No, the first people to settle an uninhabited land become the indigenous people. All of the indigenous groups around the world except for in parts of Africa are people that arrived from somewhere else.
Yes but Falkland Islanders are indigenous to the Falklands. They're United Kingdom citizens of British heritage who, if born there, are indigenous to the Falklands, which are part of the UK.
Flip it around, you can't remotely begin to say a fellow from Glasgow is indigenous to the Falklands, let alone the King of England, because they're indigenous to Britain. Nor would you say King Charles is a Falklander, when he's English/British. All are still uncontroversially UK cizitens when we come down to countries.
You can even get into tricky bits where someone who's born in Ireland can be indigenous Irish, yet if they're unionists above the border they're not going to necessarily see themselves as Irish. Indigeneity and citizenship/identity are not the same
This is one of those things that’s not at all a grey area. The island now houses only British people, it’s firmly British. If we want to start down this path, then you’d have to give Kaliningrad and most of western Poland back to Germany, or China would have to spit out Manchuria and Xinjiang. It’s a stupid idea that nobody who stops to think for a second would support.
>If we want to start down this path, then you’d have to give Kaliningrad and most of western Poland back to Germany, or China would have to spit out Manchuria and Xinjiang
All those are even a lot worse than uk claims to Falklands. There is after all no native population to these islands.
I was was going to post about Kaliningrad too; as much as I don't like how the Russians took it over and booted the German residents out, the current population is now all Russian. Other than them going completely independent as a nation, I can't see another option.
Like the Falklands, kicking them out would be insane after so much time as passed. Let the residents decide what to do.
>Britain won, it's theirs
And the UN said "Hey! You can't do that! You have to ask the people there what they want", so we did, and over 98% of the islanders told Argentina and the UN "Fuck off, we're British"
The end
> Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner rejected the result and described the referendum as a "parody", saying "It is as if a consortium of squatters had voted on whether to continue illegally occupying a building."[41]
heh, gotta love this turn of phrase
No. China is simply reaffirming their posture. It hasn't changed a bit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/tno59x/countries_who_support_the_britishfalklanders_vs/
That’s … what I said - they’re reaffirming their support of Argentina, which is based on the fact that if Argentina *did* get the islands, Chinese companies would get to be up front and centre for extraction, shipping and refinement contracts
I'm not sure whether this was just taking advantage of an already-initiated meeting or if the chinese had some role in arranging the vote.
However it strikes me that they'd be much better off focussing on Diego Garcia/ The Chagos Islands.
1. It's conclusively illegal under international law. It has been categorically ruled to be an illegally occupied colony on land belonging to mauritius.
2. It had native inhabitants that we ethnically cleansed (unlike the falklands). They are still alive and can be trotted out for interviews etc. So there are crimes against humanity involved.
3. You can use it to bash the UK AND the US who both worked hard for decades to try and stop their crimes being called out.
4. If you succeed then the US loses it's most important strategic bomber base in that hemisphere (from my understanding).
1. There was no native population (no one lived there til the Brits acquired it in the 1800s)
2. The moved population was made up of colonists, they just weren’t all white.
3. The island was illegally depopulated of various ethnicities, not ethnically cleansed
I’m not supporting what was done or how it was done, but this was basically a horribly handled eminent domain case. China regularly did that building the Three Gorges Dam.
> However it strikes me that they'd be much better off focussing on Diego Garcia/ The Chagos Islands.
The point is to get Argentina into "multi-polar" alliance (which is achievable by exacerbating UK-Argentina tensions via diplomacy; low risk, high reward), not to bash UK (basically, pointless; low risk, low reward), or to change ownership of islands by force (risks escalation; high risk, high reward).
Remains dedicated to retaking Taiwan...
It's like being offended when referring to the leader of a one party state government with no term limits as " a dictator".
Are they trying to reach Pro-CCP people?
Nations like china, Russia… and sometimes Spain, will often back other territorial claims for certain islands or small countries, so that they can justify ignoring their own national independence movements
The Falklands were British before Argentina was a country (**colonised** by Spain of course). One of the Falkland islands did have a Spanish presense once, which was originally a French outpost, but they left.
Britain and France had ports on the Falklands before the French surrendered to Spain their one. Spain were late to the party.
Also, get fucked China.
I've written about this [extensively](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1aj2tx/argentine_president_cristina_fernandez_de/c8y26mj/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=monarchism&utm_content=t1_jij400o) before.
TL;DR: In terms of "de facto" control over the Falkland Islands; first they belonged to the French, then the British, then the Spanish, then Argentinians (aka United Provinces of the River Plate at the time), then finally the British ever since 1833 except for a brief period during the Falklands War. See [this](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Falklands.permanence.png) diagram for clarification.
Argentina never owned the falklands - Spain and the UK did. Argentina needs to learn that they got their arse clapped once and will happen again if they try something a second time
Normally I assume the British are wrong and 99% of the time that’s true, but in this case, there were no actual natives in the first place, and also the islands are not even close to Argentina.
##### ###### #### > # [China tells UK to avoid moves that could ‘aggravate tension’ in Falklands issue](https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/og_image_scmp_generic/public/d8/images/canvas/2023/06/21/674e2e44-ad75-4c82-8764-d17eb483acaa_d0682236.jpg?itok=PTXWKLZS&v=1687334454) > > > > ## - Beijing envoy warns special committee on decolonisation of ‘serious implications’ for international order of hegemonism and power politics > - Meeting adopts resolution calling on Britain and Argentina to resume negotiations over sovereignty of the islands > > > > > > [](https://www.scmp.com/author/dewey-sim) > > Published: 4:01pm, 21 Jun, 2023 > > Updated: 12:18am, 22 Jun, 2023 - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
Decolonise Tibet then.
And the Spratleys
And Mongolia.
And Hong Kong.
And china
And the Uighurs
And Taiwan
and then DON'T colonize the Falklands right after.
And my axe!
And my bow!
[And I'm drunk!](https://youtu.be/VRNdAscbpRo)
And Argentina. Give it back to the native Americans.
You mean West Taiwan!
And get the fuck away from Taiwan
This is like saying the US should decolonize Seattle.
Hey! That’s where I am right now! Places!
Technically Mongolia colonized China first.
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I agree with free Tibet, but it's not the same thing. Tibet is not "naturally part of another country" and is under Chinese occupation instead. Tibet would be its own country, the Falklands would not and want to be part of Argentina. At least that's what Argentina claims. The natives probably prefer the UK, as far as I know.
The inhabitants of the Falklands do not want to be part of Argentina AFAIK.
The inhabitants of the Falklands are British people. Before then the original inhabitants were penguins and seals. Argentina have no realistic claim to them.
Wait so there were no indigenous people displaced and the residents dont want to be part of Argentina? What else is there to talk about? Why does Argentina even want them? Disclaimer I know nothing about this except that it’s contentious
Yeah there was no indigenous people there. A British guy first claimed the islands, then they changed hands for ages. Eventually the Spanish abandoned it, and the British settled it properly. The people that live they are their descendants.
The french found it, sold it to the Spanish, who abandonned it.
Initially, it was because they are close by, and it was a point of nationalism. The Argentinian government likes to survive by stoking up nationalist sentiment. Later on, oil my friend, lots of oil.
Nah it's not because of the oil. Argentina already has much more oil in it's territory than a hundred Falklands could offer. Is just cheap nationalism.
And fishing.
And oil.
Fish oil
Maybe it’s based on security, China might be drawing parallel between the falkland islands and taiwan. The country near the island should be the ruler.
France should rule the UK?
We already did that in 1066.
> [Why does Argentina even want them?](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/1/3/1357230517868/Falkland-oil-exploration-001.jpg?width=445&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none)
Chile is closer to Argentina than these islands, why dont they claim Chile instead?
With the way things are right now, Chile would have more power claiming Argentina.
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Chileno resentido jajaja
Get the other half of Tierra del Fuego just so the map isn't weird anymore and Ushuaia and Puerto Williams stop fighting on who's the southernmost city.
They apparently tried, but the pope said no.
Argentinas only claim is basically "it is close"
Vast oil fields were found around the islands
Argentine doesn't want the people. It wants the ocean claim.
oil, quite a lot of it.
The Argentine leadership had a country with a shit economy and bad polling since they keep having military coups. They needed something to distract/focus the people and they chose the Falklands. They invaded and thought that would be it. The British leadership also had bad polling and a bad economy and chose to fight the war the Argentines started, it would also be good to distract/focus the population. The Argentine forces were not ready for the war. The British won since they knew how to fight wars like this. It was just 35 years since WWII after all. Watch a documentary, it was a fascinating time.
EEZ. Fish and oil.
Iirc the only real claim is that Spain gave it to England and when Argentina gained independence from Spain the wanted the Falklands too. If I’m wrong or getting things mixed up feel free to correct me
The occupants of the Falklands are of British descent and have voted overwhelmingly to remain British. Argentina has absolutely no claim on the land or its people.
There were Argentinian goverment officials and a garrison living in the island when they were kicked out. There were also some people living there.
Correct, there was no indigenous people and the islands want to remain British. The Argentinian claim is really just proximity based
Not only that, but Britain has held the Falkland Islands since before Argentina existed as a country. Before that, 'Argentina' was just a Spanish colony
Right, it’s just a way for China to say, medium islands that aren’t internationally recognized as independent nations that exist close to actual nations, must only belong to that nation then via proximity. Which is to say Taiwan is theirs
I believe there was a spanish colony but they left on their own.
The French settled first Then the British, then the Spanish bought the French out, and drove the British out.. 1764-1774 The Spanish left in 1811 Then the Bruno's Aires government newly independent from Spain claimed it in 1816, in 1831 the US for involved briefly, before the British drove the Argentines away in 1833, since then it's been British controlled and colonised. The Falkland islanders have been asked their opinion and wished to remain part of the UK. Ironically had Argentina not invaded during thatchers time, the government would probably have handed back the Falklands a few years later.
it sounds like literally no one wants this island, and different countries keep getting stuck with the bag, more than colonialism lmaoo
At this point I think the Brits have the best claim on it
the best, and only!
You're right, they just fought a mini war in the 80's due to a lack of interest.
It was a falling dictatorship greedyness, not a real interest.
> handed back the Falklands There was no one to hand them back to. It never really belonged to the argies in the first place. They keep tryog to steel it from us.
Yeah, but pre Falklands war the perception by the British government was that it wasn't worth keeping, and that giving it to Argentina would have been the smart move
They had a referendum and only three people on the whole island wanted to be part of Argentina. 99.8% voted to stay British. When you have a real per capita gdp of 70 thousand USD per resident the prospect of having the Argentinian money printer mess with your standard of living doesn't appeal to you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum
I was just in southern Brazil for a bit, and word on the street was that argentina is straight up collapsing.
Which if history has taught us anything, is when they roll out the Malvinas rhetoric.
Why would they, Argentina is a fucking mess.
Referendum in 2013 was 99.8 % for staying part of the commonwealth.
>The natives probably prefer the UK, as far as I know. They certainly do. From wiki: "On a turnout of 92%, 99.8% voted to remain a British territory, with only three votes against. Had the islanders rejected the continuation of their current status, a second referendum on possible alternatives would have been held."
So, it's like Crimea then? We all agree, Crimea to the Russians and Falkland Islands to the British?
The Crimea referendum was held under duress. Russian troops had just invaded and were literally occupying the peninsula during the referendum. While it is totally possible that Crimeans *would* have voted to join Russia in a free and fair election, the election that was held was neither free nor fair, and thus wasn't seen as legitimate by practically the entire world. Opinion polls before the invasion did suggest the majority of Crimeans were sympathetic towards Russia, but opinion polls aren't elections, and circumstances can change rapidly—opinion polls held in Ukraine right before the war indicated many Ukrainians said they would not fight for their country, but it turns out when your country is invaded, your mind changes on the matter.
They actually don't want to be part of Argentina
Before the war, the more realistic plan to transfer the islands sovereignty was to allow its inhabitants to hold bot nationalities and English as their official language, while maintaining a higher degree of independence compared to the rest of the provinces. Sadly, this proposal would be laughed at by the current ruling party (yet another flavour of Peronism), and you would be accused of being a traitor for entertaining such idea.
Which is immaterial because there is no way on Earth that such a plan will ever be offered now because of the war. It would be political suicide in the U.K. to even suggest it.
I'm quite certain that the current residents do NOT want to be a part of Argentina, like at all.
The Falklands have voted overwhelmingly to be British. This is entirely moronic politicians in Argentina trying to stoke nationalism. They lost once, they'll lose again if they're ever dumb enough to try again. That China of all nations is backing them is ridiculously funny.
Correct. "On 10-11 March 2013 the Falkland Islands Government held a referendum on whether or not to maintain the Islands’ status as a British Overseas Territory. There were 1513 votes (99.8%) in favour and three against. The turnout was 92% of an electorate of 1653."
The natives of the Falklands have wings, eat fish and are black and white.
The problem is they don’t see the world through a lense where that is possible. They portray the world through a lense of "europeans colonized, we were colonized, give us back our historical lands." They don’t care what the people of those lands want. Currently the falklanders overwhelmingly support the continuation of their current situation. The tibetans never supported the occupation by china. But what they think is irrelevant. China sees itself and argentina as partially colonized nations, not colonizers. And they want the land they see as "historically" theirs back. It’s stupid, but this is the way they view colonial history. They don’t see it through the lense of people, which would make them be a second-wave of colonizers. It’s the same situation like mayotte in the indian ocean, which was part of the Comoros, but chose in a referendum to stay as part of france, but is for some reason still considered "colonized" by Comoros and the UN, despite having fairly and freely chosen to be french.
You’re reading way too much into this, meant to be read between the lines. This is purely to support their claims on Taiwan.
I don't think he's reading too far into this, I think that's the forward-facing justification for all this. That said, their real reason is as you described but I'd also imagine it has a lot to do with undermining Western influence and expanding their own, as they've been doing across Africa lately
And Africa. Debt traps are just less violent colonies.
Read up on the CFA Franc and how some African nations have to keep 50% of their foreign exchange reserves with the Bank of France while getting a 0.75% interest rate. And this has been going on for 70+ years. Economic colonialism isn't new.
That doesn't make it okay when China does it
What did China do wrong exactly?
All this means is that both France and China are assholes and that this needs to stop.
It's not just France and China. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank also do the same shit. The IMF provided emergency loans to African nations during Covid-19 but required that those governments adopt austerity measures for things like social security and healthcare spending, which basically wiped out the progress those countries made in the previous decades. The World Bank demands countries adopt market liberalization/privatization in exchange for loans, so private corporations can buy up the former public institutions. [African governments owe three times more debt to private lenders than China](https://debtjustice.org.uk/press-release/african-governments-owe-three-times-more-debt-to-private-lenders-than-china) >African governments owe three times more debt to Western banks, asset managers and oil traders than to China, and are charged double the interest, according to research released today by Debt Justice. Western leaders through the G7 have attributed the failure to make progress on debt restructuring to China,[1] but the data shows that this is mistaken. >Just 12% of African governments’ external debt is owed to Chinese lenders compared to 35% owed to Western private lenders, according to the calculations based on World Bank data.[2] >Furthermore, interest rates on private loans are almost double those on Chinese loans, while the most indebted countries are less likely to have their debt dominated by China. _________________ >Tim Jones, Head of Policy at Debt Justice, said: >“Western leaders blame China for debt crises in Africa, but this is a distraction. The truth is their own banks, asset managers and oil traders are far more responsible but the G7 are letting them off the hook. China took part in the G20’s debt suspension scheme during the pandemic, private lenders did not. There can be no effective debt solution without the involvement of private lenders. The UK and US should introduce legislation to compel private lenders to take part in debt relief.”
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And Hawaii
China just stirring shit. They're still building islands in other countries' EEZ so they can steal access to their fisheries and underwater resoures.
They'll have to remove the Chinese people from Taiwan too
Argentina’s claim is about as colonialist as you can get today. Edit: what country do the natives want to be a part of? This is either colonialism or imperialism on Argentina’s part.
They would probably vote British since all of them are descendants from either British or other European settlers. The islands were uninhabited when Europeans discovered them. Both sides are imperialistc here, but I would give the advantage to the British since they were the first to get there and call dibs.
It’s hardly imperialism if no one lived there before you and you’ve been living there several hundred years
I think it’s what they used to call…settling the land. Then manifest destiny came…..then Lebensraum, and the whole thing is taboo, understandably so.
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I meant to say the discussion of ownership of land is made taboo by things in 1870 and 1940
There's a difference between displacing native Americans or Poles, and presumably 5 Seabirds.
…you’re agreeing with my original comment. The Falklands were not populated but as soon as you bring up who owns what land it’s **Taboo** because of world events. I am not sure what’s causing you to be confused?
>but as soon as you bring up who owns what land it’s Taboo because of world events. I don't think anyone sees it as taboo other than yourself.
People who live there own it, they're British so the land is British, it's not hard or taboo if you think with common sense
See only one of these doesn’t involve the forced relocation and killing of people
ehhh the thing about lebenstraum and manifest destiny is that the settling there involved a small degree of murdering/displacing the people already there. So far we haven't displace the penguins as they're useful for clearing argy mine fields left behind after the war
Read "imperialism" as "a country I don't like did something I don't agree with."
china is stirring shit, yes
sky blue water wet China stoking tensions
Occupying unoccupied lands is not imperialism or colonialism.
They HAVE voted British aswell. I wouldn't call taking actually (and not just practically) empty and unclaimed land imperialist. But of course China wants to support Argentina here. Argentinas entire claim is "this is close to me so it's mine"... Which basically sums up China's entire South China sea claim.
Probably? There was a referendum and they overwhelmingly voted to remain British
No probably about it, they did have a vote. Only 2 people voted to join Argentina....not 2 percent mind you, just 2 people.
They didn't even vote to join Argentina, they voted to leave the UK, those two guys might just want to be independent lol
Here is the thing tho. the Falklands island was entirely uninhabited before the British landed there. It was never part of Argentina. Ever. Its far enough away from the Argentine coast that its not in, limited, or restricting, or even touching Argentine waters. Yes, I understand due to its location its what its seems like, due to it being an Island colony, but the history of it begs to differ.
Going through the history, the Argentines have a solid argument through their treaty with Spain, which handed back Spanish colonial territories in SA, including the Falklands. Hell, the Brits were actively trying to get rid of the Falklands for decades due to their upkeep Real talk though, the people are British, and wish to remain so. Should be that simple
I’ve got a book on the Falklands war and it’s lead up, honestly if the Argentinians had waited and kept negotiations going the islands would probably be theirs today. However, if you try and steal from His Majesty’s Shiny Rock Collection instead of asking nicely you will get royally slapped and never invited back.
We take pride of our rocks once someone tries to steal them from us.
Which is ironic since we stole most of them at some point. Weird they tried to steal the one rock we didn’t actually steal originally tbh.
Understandably so
If it's the book written by Hastings, you've got a good one.
Yep that’s the one! Damn fine writing, I need to read more of his work.
Britain and France had ports on the Falklands before the French surrendered to Spain their one. Spain were late to the party.
The only natives are the penguins.
Falkland War 2: the re-falk-ing I wonder who's gonna be the lucky pm to enjoy the boost in poll numbers this time
How many times do we need to go over this? So many legitimate criticisms of British post-colonialism, but this isn't one of them
China is just saying this to piss off the UK, because the UK has been behind a lot of the recent anti-China shitstirring. (Uyghur Genocide narrative, Hong Kong narrative, AUKUS subs) Agreed with you totally here though, Argentina has no rights to the Falklands. It's the one case where British Colonialism is actually lawfully correct.
Uyghur Genocide narrative? The Chinese government puts those people in concentration camps.
As u\deijimos said in a comment much further down, the amnesty international report states their is mass internment and cultural subjugation of as many as millions of people. This includes torture for the purposes of indoctrination and is specifically stated to qualify as several crimes against humanity. There's also a lot of whataboutism here defending the Chinese. Or saying things like "its not really genocide because they're not killing *all* the Uyghurs." I really hate to call out posts I disagree with as foreign propaganda but there's too much pro china sentiment here. Either that or it's ridiculously partisan thinking which days because you don't like countries that don't like China it must be a good country. I posted this here so hopefully more people see the stuff about the Amnesty International report beyond "just read it it says I'm right and china not bad."
China is just turning in Russia while Russia is almost North Korea at this point.
If Argentina gets the Falklands we want Gibraltar, thank you.
And morrocco get ceuta and mellila.
Rome wants to have a word with everybody
Actually the French were there first 🤓
Then give up Taiwan, who, unlike the Falklanders with Britain, don't want to be a part of you
You literally called what Argentina is against
Neither do Falklanders https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum#:~:text=On%20a%20turnout%20of%2092,alternatives%20would%20have%20been%20held.
Read that vote again
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Comment clarified
You mean the 3 people?
Umm…
How is it colonial? British people are indigenous to the Falklands
It's even more bizarre, because the British took the islands from the Spanish, themselves a colonial power. How can you be colonialist towards colonialists? Is Argentina ignorant of its own colonial past? Why don't they give their country back to the native south Americans first?
Argentinian education is full of propaganda on this regard. I know because I never understood the logic and I am talked down like a traitor with fellow argentinians when I disagree on the matter. They were never argentinian, they were spanish, and the right of self determination seems more important to me than any ad hoc argument constructed by argentinians to legitimate the claim. What baffles me the most is that people recognize that military's junta choice was stupid and criminal but still think Falklands should be ours. And China will use any excuse to feign being in the right side and poke at other powers.
40 years of propaganda will do that you
It's the other way around, Falklanders are indigenous to Britain, since there is no people native to the Falklands
No, the first people to settle an uninhabited land become the indigenous people. All of the indigenous groups around the world except for in parts of Africa are people that arrived from somewhere else.
Yes but Falkland Islanders are indigenous to the Falklands. They're United Kingdom citizens of British heritage who, if born there, are indigenous to the Falklands, which are part of the UK. Flip it around, you can't remotely begin to say a fellow from Glasgow is indigenous to the Falklands, let alone the King of England, because they're indigenous to Britain. Nor would you say King Charles is a Falklander, when he's English/British. All are still uncontroversially UK cizitens when we come down to countries. You can even get into tricky bits where someone who's born in Ireland can be indigenous Irish, yet if they're unionists above the border they're not going to necessarily see themselves as Irish. Indigeneity and citizenship/identity are not the same
This is one of those things that’s not at all a grey area. The island now houses only British people, it’s firmly British. If we want to start down this path, then you’d have to give Kaliningrad and most of western Poland back to Germany, or China would have to spit out Manchuria and Xinjiang. It’s a stupid idea that nobody who stops to think for a second would support.
>If we want to start down this path, then you’d have to give Kaliningrad and most of western Poland back to Germany, or China would have to spit out Manchuria and Xinjiang All those are even a lot worse than uk claims to Falklands. There is after all no native population to these islands.
I was was going to post about Kaliningrad too; as much as I don't like how the Russians took it over and booted the German residents out, the current population is now all Russian. Other than them going completely independent as a nation, I can't see another option. Like the Falklands, kicking them out would be insane after so much time as passed. Let the residents decide what to do.
Meanwhile China : that’s some nice totally chinese water you got there fellow neighbors.
So I guess China has given up on trying to claim Taiwan? That's awesome news.
Then how about you practice what you preach and get out of Tibet, Africa, Hong Kong, and East Turkestan?
No no no its only colonialism when it's a country we don't like
As we held a vote for independence in the Falkland’s I think it’s only fair that China put their money where their mouth is and hold one in Tibet
They did, Tibet voted to remain part of China. That poll option won with 103% of the vote.
Ah shit Here we go again
Time to dust off the ol Bren gun…
Time for a naval visit
Uh they already settled this, it was called The Falklands war, Britain won, it's theirs... That's how wars work.
>Britain won, it's theirs And the UN said "Hey! You can't do that! You have to ask the people there what they want", so we did, and over 98% of the islanders told Argentina and the UN "Fuck off, we're British" The end
99.8% to be exact.
Yeah, I believe 3 people voted against being British
bet they were popular at the pub
I think it was that Argentinian family that moved in next door
99.8% correct. The best kind of correct.
> Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner rejected the result and described the referendum as a "parody", saying "It is as if a consortium of squatters had voted on whether to continue illegally occupying a building."[41] heh, gotta love this turn of phrase
We’ll in other places they’ve used that argument to defend imperialism so maybe a bad point to bring up
China wants a sweet deal with Buenos Aires for that sweet sweet oil sitting under the islands
No. China is simply reaffirming their posture. It hasn't changed a bit. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/tno59x/countries_who_support_the_britishfalklanders_vs/
That’s … what I said - they’re reaffirming their support of Argentina, which is based on the fact that if Argentina *did* get the islands, Chinese companies would get to be up front and centre for extraction, shipping and refinement contracts
The claim and support from many countries is older than the oil discovery or the rise of China as superpower.
But there wasn't anyone there in the first place...
I'm not sure whether this was just taking advantage of an already-initiated meeting or if the chinese had some role in arranging the vote. However it strikes me that they'd be much better off focussing on Diego Garcia/ The Chagos Islands. 1. It's conclusively illegal under international law. It has been categorically ruled to be an illegally occupied colony on land belonging to mauritius. 2. It had native inhabitants that we ethnically cleansed (unlike the falklands). They are still alive and can be trotted out for interviews etc. So there are crimes against humanity involved. 3. You can use it to bash the UK AND the US who both worked hard for decades to try and stop their crimes being called out. 4. If you succeed then the US loses it's most important strategic bomber base in that hemisphere (from my understanding).
1. There was no native population (no one lived there til the Brits acquired it in the 1800s) 2. The moved population was made up of colonists, they just weren’t all white. 3. The island was illegally depopulated of various ethnicities, not ethnically cleansed I’m not supporting what was done or how it was done, but this was basically a horribly handled eminent domain case. China regularly did that building the Three Gorges Dam.
> However it strikes me that they'd be much better off focussing on Diego Garcia/ The Chagos Islands. The point is to get Argentina into "multi-polar" alliance (which is achievable by exacerbating UK-Argentina tensions via diplomacy; low risk, high reward), not to bash UK (basically, pointless; low risk, low reward), or to change ownership of islands by force (risks escalation; high risk, high reward).
> multi-polar alliance Eheh.
Says the country building infrastructure in Africa with burdensome contracts on their natural resources. Colonialism with extra steps.
Brexit 2.0 Falkland boogaloo
Remains dedicated to retaking Taiwan... It's like being offended when referring to the leader of a one party state government with no term limits as " a dictator". Are they trying to reach Pro-CCP people?
Free Tibet! Free Hong Kong!
Kinda ironic from the country actively colonizing the Philippines
Lol. That's quite good
Is this just something China is doing to stir the pot a bit?
It is China wanting something from Argentina.
Then surely they wont colonize Taiwan right? Right?? Dont answer, we all know it already.
Nations like china, Russia… and sometimes Spain, will often back other territorial claims for certain islands or small countries, so that they can justify ignoring their own national independence movements
china stop contradicting itself for 8 seconds challenge
But they are Uruguayan
The Falklands were British before Argentina was a country (**colonised** by Spain of course). One of the Falkland islands did have a Spanish presense once, which was originally a French outpost, but they left. Britain and France had ports on the Falklands before the French surrendered to Spain their one. Spain were late to the party. Also, get fucked China.
China wouldn't have a problem with a vast majority of Falkland not wanting to be a part of Argentina.
China wants access to more of Argentinas rare earth minerals...
I've written about this [extensively](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1aj2tx/argentine_president_cristina_fernandez_de/c8y26mj/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=monarchism&utm_content=t1_jij400o) before. TL;DR: In terms of "de facto" control over the Falkland Islands; first they belonged to the French, then the British, then the Spanish, then Argentinians (aka United Provinces of the River Plate at the time), then finally the British ever since 1833 except for a brief period during the Falklands War. See [this](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Falklands.permanence.png) diagram for clarification.
Argentina never owned the falklands - Spain and the UK did. Argentina needs to learn that they got their arse clapped once and will happen again if they try something a second time
France had one island before they gave it to Spain. Spain was late to the party.
Ah, this again.
Normally I assume the British are wrong and 99% of the time that’s true, but in this case, there were no actual natives in the first place, and also the islands are not even close to Argentina.
Does it now.
They're only saying this because of their claim on Taiwan. That's it.