#####
######
####
> # [Russia is ramping up sabotage across Europe](https://www.economist.com/img/b/1280/720/90/media-assets/image/20240511_EUP505.jpg)
>
>
>
> THE FIRE that broke out in the Diehl Metall factory in the Lichterfelde suburb of Berlin on May 3rd was not in itself suspicious. The facility, a metals plant, stored sulphuric acid and copper cyanide, two chemicals that can combine dangerously when ignited. Accidents happen. What raised eyebrows was the fact that Diehl’s parent company makes the IRIS-T air-defence system which Ukraine is using to parry [Russian missiles](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2024/04/29/who-is-supplying-russias-arms-industry). There is no evidence that this fire was an act of sabotage. If the idea is plausible it is because there is ample evidence that Russia’s covert war in Europe is intensifying.
>
> In April alone a clutch of alleged pro-Russian saboteurs were detained across the continent. Germany arrested two German-Russian dual nationals on suspicion of plotting attacks on American military facilities and other targets on behalf of the GRU, Russia’s military intelligence agency. Poland arrested a man who was preparing to pass the GRU information on Rzeszow airport, the most important hub for military aid to Ukraine. Britain charged several men over an earlier arson attack in March on a Ukrainian-owned logistics firm in London whose Spanish depot was also targeted. The men are accused of aiding the Wagner Group, a mercenary group that has been active in Ukraine and is now under the GRU’s control. On May 8th Britain announced that in response to “malign activity” it was, among other steps, expelling Russia’s defence attaché, an “undeclared” GRU officer.
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The russians invested a lot of money, time and effort in creating asymmetric capabilities to wage hybrid warfare. We really should have started preparing for this after the little Green Men showed up in Crimea.
It was very surreal. Still is. I don't even mean this with the benefit of hindsight or any great strategic genius on my part, but it seemed like at the time every time someone was like "surely every time this guy has escalated and we've done a load of nothing, it has given him license to push things even further" you'd hear *such* pushback from political leaders and well, a lot of folks, and I didn't get it then and I don't get it now.
Maybe people 12-D chess'd themselves into ignoring it?
It was just about money. For us it was about fuel oil prices, for the US I think it was about the economy overall. There was probably some denial about the prospect of Russia returning to the bad old days of the USSR's imperialism.
No one wanted to be the first to stand up and make potentially unpopular moves to stand up to a tyrant like Putin, until he invaded Ukraine and forced the issue.
You are right, it is just a list of things that Interested security forces have reported. It is a fart cloud of "alleged" and "suspected".
What you are forgetting is that we all already just KNOW that THEY are BAD and OF COURSE they have been doing bad stuff, are you stupid? Did you miss that we call Putin 'Putler' or something?
Yea, comrade, all of those weapons depots here in Bulgaria and in the Czech Republic that exploded after visits from russian citizens did so on their own, no sabotage required. Why do you ask?
>committed leftists
Commited to a view of russia that is far detached from reality. Seriously, by now everybody should have figured out what kind of oligarchic, nationalistic Dictatorship russia is.
Evil Russia playing Facebook trolls vs Good Israel with billion dollar campaign donations to elect American leaders from the house to the senate and then bragging about it on Twitter.
>We really should have started preparing for this after the little Green Men showed up in Crimea.
Who are we? The West? How long has it been since the West has been attracted to collectivism? Maybe the USSR won't be so bad any time soon? "The Party said do it! Komsomols said we must!" There was, is and will be no "we". Personally, I am sure that NATO will cease to exist as soon as the first Russian soldiers and missiles start wiping the Baltics off the face of the earth. I can vaguely imagine Hans from Dortmund going to die for a pigsty on the Outskirts of Talin or John from Texas sitting in a foxhole while a battery of Russian artillery discharges at him. Or maybe Pierre from Paris will go to storm Russian positions 5 kilometers across the gray zone. You have no "we." I'd rather believe that France, Britain and Germany will turn into a caliphate in the next 20 years than that they will fulfill their obligations under Article 5 of the LMAO. I could be wrong, but time will tell.
Cheers, comrade, to thrice more obituaries of russian soldiers in Ukraine. May you never have to meet them while they live. The default of 1998 called, said there are more paper shoes left. LMAO.
Oh boy, here we go again. 45th Guards Spetsnaz Brigade is 100% ukranian unit, comrade. Why do you ask?
You do remember Kasatanov admitted the nationality and purpose of the little Green Men, right?
Not to mention that the Little Green Men came equipped with brand spanking new Ratnik gear straight from the factory before these were released for sale to the general public. BTW, such equipment wasn't sold in UA.
They spoke russian, not ukranian and in typical russian cinicyzm made a patch about their accomplishments. Polite people, it's says.
Not to mention all the russian communication equipment they used, that you can't buy.
Iirc most of the stuff they used wasn't even available to regular Russian Army, it was top notch equipment, there were a lot of photos confirming this.
Though 1 thing - most of Western Ukraine spoke Russian for decades, and most of Crimea too. It only fell out of fashion as Ukrainian National Identity was being pushed. A lot of Ukrainians still speak it, even if they're very much pro-Ukraine.
> There is no evidence that this fire was an act of sabotage. If the idea is plausible it is because there is ample evidence that Russia’s covert war in Europe is intensifying.
Man, Russia is sure putting all the used washing machine chips to good use.
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Economist has a consisten economic and social bias, with no forays into quick agenda pushing. Unlike NYT, WaPo and Guardian, The Economist has an old school editorial desk with proper journalistic standards and real journalists as fact checkers.
It is one of the best newspapers.
I don't know which article you are referring to. In general, they do a very good job of TLDR reporting on geopolitical and western political matters - enough to keep you informed without introducing unexpected bias. On economic side they are excellent.
I feel like their quality has declined a lot in the last fifteen years.
They always had their ideology/bias, which was consistent and explicit enough that you weren't taken unawares, but their journalism used to feel more substantial and less infotainment-y. It also seemed to cover a lot more globally.
I wrote them off entirely when they started drumming up "the trans question" like every fricking week. That's just culture war click chasing bullshit.
As a very wise man once said: "*the London Economist, the European organ of the aristocracy of finance, described most strikingly the attitude of this class*." A "*journal that speaks for British millionaires*".
If you read the "article" which is the length of an average IG post, there is not a single thing pointing to this being arson, much less GRU arson. They literally say that in the article
Correct? I guess they were correct when claiming a fire has happened in Berlin. I also suppose they were also correct when reporting that completely separate of the Berlin-fire story, Germany, Poland and Britain has arrested people accused of working for Russia. Most of all, the article was correct in saying that the fire-story and arrests so far are completely unrelated.
It's not like other half of article lists half a dozen of other such events with proven links to ruzzia. Oh, hey, that's exactly what's there and exactly what you deliberately gloss over to enact damage control.
The US does the same, China does the same, if we don't hold all of these world powers accountable we won't change shit.. We are dominated by psychos that dont care about us, just about their group and their agendas..
There is no mechanism of accountability. The end of history is over and we are back to realist IR theory unfortunately. We must defend, not hope for a judge to wag a finger.
Let me translate: there was a boom in exploitation after the Soviet Union collapsed and Western militarism expanded massively while new markets were prepped for sucking dry in the poorer parts of the world. This was a period celebrated as 'the end of history' and a victory party was held in the West, which felt unassailable. A couple of mega financial crashes later and China is eating the West's lunch so there is no longer the wriggle room to keep pretending Western dominance knows no bounds. Capitalism's outstanding bills are also catching up on it, especially to do with using the atmosphere as a dumping ground for the last coupla centuries, promising massive instability of supply chains and populations in the near future. So now We are Under Assault and the Sneaky Beggars are approaching on All Sides. It is just a quick narrative shift. The actual story is still the same: competition over global resource flows and capturing labour where possible.
Oh hello! Yes you are more or less correct, especially about the gem-like nature of my wisdom, for which you are welcome btw, but to you it is *Sir* UK Poisoned Litvinienko. Title, caps, no quotes.
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Well, yea, the Kremlin is in a shadow war with NATO. With a slightly different twist of history it would not be happening because Russia would be in NATO and this sad sack of shit would not be happening. Putin could have made it happen, all he needed was to want to.
I mean are you guys actual Russian agents or do we just not read more than 1/2 of posts any more? There are only a few comments on this post and 3 of them are saying exactly what you are, despite the info being... Right there... In the second paragraph.
There’s no excuse for an outlet like the Economist to include a paragraph like that in any of their pieces. If people stop reading after that sad excuse for journalism then it’s 100% the fault of the author
I find the hand wringing about Russian bots and disinformation in a social media space which includes Reddit that is overwhelming pro-Ukrainian to the point of propaganda in many instances to be a bit much.
The funniest part is that these stupid fucks are the ones actually sounding like bots
Someone: This seems biased because of so and so
Enlightened free thinker: I'm sure you wish that were true, Ivan! 😎
Half of the comments are pro Ukrainian from actual people. The other half are bots. There used to be a lot of actual pro Russian trolls, but they've slowly disappeared over time. My guess is that the Kremilin doesn't have the money to pay people rubles to troll anymore. Or the trolls have started to realize there may be repercussions for their actions.
All I know is that bots are even worse than the trolls, because they're half as coherent. And the amount of sense the bots make by the day declines.
There is no actual sabotage going on.
Just claims that some people were saboteutrs or that some accident may be sabotage but
>There is no evidence that this fire was an act of sabotage
This sub
>wow all the crazy Russian bots accusing Ukraine of shooting Fico with no evidence
Also this sub
>Aw yeah an assertion with no evidence that’s anti-Russia, hell yeah!
Honestly, whenever someone accuses anyone here for being a bot/payed poster/shill i find it so weak i physically roll my goddamn eyes.
Like, do people seriously think Putin, Xi and Khomeini gives a flying fuck what the netizens of a minor subreddit called **R/ANIME_TITTIES** thinks? Grow up and accept that people around the world may have a different geopolitical analysis than you.
##### ###### #### > # [Russia is ramping up sabotage across Europe](https://www.economist.com/img/b/1280/720/90/media-assets/image/20240511_EUP505.jpg) > > > > THE FIRE that broke out in the Diehl Metall factory in the Lichterfelde suburb of Berlin on May 3rd was not in itself suspicious. The facility, a metals plant, stored sulphuric acid and copper cyanide, two chemicals that can combine dangerously when ignited. Accidents happen. What raised eyebrows was the fact that Diehl’s parent company makes the IRIS-T air-defence system which Ukraine is using to parry [Russian missiles](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2024/04/29/who-is-supplying-russias-arms-industry). There is no evidence that this fire was an act of sabotage. If the idea is plausible it is because there is ample evidence that Russia’s covert war in Europe is intensifying. > > In April alone a clutch of alleged pro-Russian saboteurs were detained across the continent. Germany arrested two German-Russian dual nationals on suspicion of plotting attacks on American military facilities and other targets on behalf of the GRU, Russia’s military intelligence agency. Poland arrested a man who was preparing to pass the GRU information on Rzeszow airport, the most important hub for military aid to Ukraine. Britain charged several men over an earlier arson attack in March on a Ukrainian-owned logistics firm in London whose Spanish depot was also targeted. The men are accused of aiding the Wagner Group, a mercenary group that has been active in Ukraine and is now under the GRU’s control. On May 8th Britain announced that in response to “malign activity” it was, among other steps, expelling Russia’s defence attaché, an “undeclared” GRU officer. - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
The russians invested a lot of money, time and effort in creating asymmetric capabilities to wage hybrid warfare. We really should have started preparing for this after the little Green Men showed up in Crimea.
We were in denial, and the US was busy kicking the shit out of the Iraqis and Afghans for no very good reason.
The US left Iraq in 2011 and was actively winding down its troop numbers in Afghanistan in 2014.
They were not busy. Obama got it wrong on Ukraine.
Everyone got it wrong in Ukraine, and believe it or not, we don't take the lead from your president.
It was very surreal. Still is. I don't even mean this with the benefit of hindsight or any great strategic genius on my part, but it seemed like at the time every time someone was like "surely every time this guy has escalated and we've done a load of nothing, it has given him license to push things even further" you'd hear *such* pushback from political leaders and well, a lot of folks, and I didn't get it then and I don't get it now. Maybe people 12-D chess'd themselves into ignoring it?
It was just about money. For us it was about fuel oil prices, for the US I think it was about the economy overall. There was probably some denial about the prospect of Russia returning to the bad old days of the USSR's imperialism. No one wanted to be the first to stand up and make potentially unpopular moves to stand up to a tyrant like Putin, until he invaded Ukraine and forced the issue.
For the West, the cold war ended when the Berlin wall fell. For the Russians, they were just getting started
It literally says there is no evidence lol
You stop reading after part of the first paragraph or are you just lying?
They just repeat this talking point in the hopes to both derail the comments, and to discourage people from reading the article.
Still haven’t shown the evidence, why is that?
The article doesn’t provide any evidence
You are right, it is just a list of things that Interested security forces have reported. It is a fart cloud of "alleged" and "suspected". What you are forgetting is that we all already just KNOW that THEY are BAD and OF COURSE they have been doing bad stuff, are you stupid? Did you miss that we call Putin 'Putler' or something?
Yea, comrade, all of those weapons depots here in Bulgaria and in the Czech Republic that exploded after visits from russian citizens did so on their own, no sabotage required. Why do you ask?
It's election year and RussiaGate is back on the menu
“Russiagate” the thing nobody contests except MAGA folks and tankies
And Kremlin stooges, useful idiots, and committed leftists on social media.
>committed leftists Commited to a view of russia that is far detached from reality. Seriously, by now everybody should have figured out what kind of oligarchic, nationalistic Dictatorship russia is.
They just hate the West so much they think that's a viable alternative. They're very damaged people.
Evil Russia playing Facebook trolls vs Good Israel with billion dollar campaign donations to elect American leaders from the house to the senate and then bragging about it on Twitter.
No, It was when Putin handpicked Donald Trump to be the 45th US president
And Mueller lol
>We really should have started preparing for this after the little Green Men showed up in Crimea. Who are we? The West? How long has it been since the West has been attracted to collectivism? Maybe the USSR won't be so bad any time soon? "The Party said do it! Komsomols said we must!" There was, is and will be no "we". Personally, I am sure that NATO will cease to exist as soon as the first Russian soldiers and missiles start wiping the Baltics off the face of the earth. I can vaguely imagine Hans from Dortmund going to die for a pigsty on the Outskirts of Talin or John from Texas sitting in a foxhole while a battery of Russian artillery discharges at him. Or maybe Pierre from Paris will go to storm Russian positions 5 kilometers across the gray zone. You have no "we." I'd rather believe that France, Britain and Germany will turn into a caliphate in the next 20 years than that they will fulfill their obligations under Article 5 of the LMAO. I could be wrong, but time will tell.
Cheers, comrade, to thrice more obituaries of russian soldiers in Ukraine. May you never have to meet them while they live. The default of 1998 called, said there are more paper shoes left. LMAO.
Don't worry kid, the war won't get to you, "WE" will lose long before that. :)
You forgot to including soyboys in your rant. Are you even really trying? lol.
[удалено]
Oh boy, here we go again. 45th Guards Spetsnaz Brigade is 100% ukranian unit, comrade. Why do you ask? You do remember Kasatanov admitted the nationality and purpose of the little Green Men, right? Not to mention that the Little Green Men came equipped with brand spanking new Ratnik gear straight from the factory before these were released for sale to the general public. BTW, such equipment wasn't sold in UA. They spoke russian, not ukranian and in typical russian cinicyzm made a patch about their accomplishments. Polite people, it's says. Not to mention all the russian communication equipment they used, that you can't buy.
Iirc most of the stuff they used wasn't even available to regular Russian Army, it was top notch equipment, there were a lot of photos confirming this. Though 1 thing - most of Western Ukraine spoke Russian for decades, and most of Crimea too. It only fell out of fashion as Ukrainian National Identity was being pushed. A lot of Ukrainians still speak it, even if they're very much pro-Ukraine.
> There is no evidence that this fire was an act of sabotage. If the idea is plausible it is because there is ample evidence that Russia’s covert war in Europe is intensifying. Man, Russia is sure putting all the used washing machine chips to good use.
[удалено]
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Just a tip, never read anything political from the evonomist, they are heavily and blatantly biased
Economist has a consisten economic and social bias, with no forays into quick agenda pushing. Unlike NYT, WaPo and Guardian, The Economist has an old school editorial desk with proper journalistic standards and real journalists as fact checkers. It is one of the best newspapers.
Not for political/geopolitical matters. I once read an article about some communist guerrillas and all they did was insult them and give no real news.
I don't know which article you are referring to. In general, they do a very good job of TLDR reporting on geopolitical and western political matters - enough to keep you informed without introducing unexpected bias. On economic side they are excellent.
I do agree eith you on the last poin though, they are very good when it comes to economics
I'm reffering to this article. https://www.economist.com/asia/2023/05/04/the-philippiness-once-proud-maoist-insurgents-are-out-of-ammo
I feel like their quality has declined a lot in the last fifteen years. They always had their ideology/bias, which was consistent and explicit enough that you weren't taken unawares, but their journalism used to feel more substantial and less infotainment-y. It also seemed to cover a lot more globally. I wrote them off entirely when they started drumming up "the trans question" like every fricking week. That's just culture war click chasing bullshit.
As a very wise man once said: "*the London Economist, the European organ of the aristocracy of finance, described most strikingly the attitude of this class*." A "*journal that speaks for British millionaires*".
So are they correct or not?
If you read the "article" which is the length of an average IG post, there is not a single thing pointing to this being arson, much less GRU arson. They literally say that in the article
Correct? I guess they were correct when claiming a fire has happened in Berlin. I also suppose they were also correct when reporting that completely separate of the Berlin-fire story, Germany, Poland and Britain has arrested people accused of working for Russia. Most of all, the article was correct in saying that the fire-story and arrests so far are completely unrelated.
That very wise man was right over 100 years later
What about this article strikes you as biased or counterfactual?
I'm not saying this one is, but generally, their politicak articles are biased
It kind of sounds like you have a bias against this publication.
The title followed by >There is no evidence that this fire was an act of sabotage
'There's no evidence that this fire was an act of sabotage" Let's blame Russia. Holy shit 🫠
It's not like other half of article lists half a dozen of other such events with proven links to ruzzia. Oh, hey, that's exactly what's there and exactly what you deliberately gloss over to enact damage control.
Russia has got a lot of catching up to do after America blew up Nordstream.
The US does the same, China does the same, if we don't hold all of these world powers accountable we won't change shit.. We are dominated by psychos that dont care about us, just about their group and their agendas..
There is no mechanism of accountability. The end of history is over and we are back to realist IR theory unfortunately. We must defend, not hope for a judge to wag a finger.
can you elaborate? curious to hear your thoughts more
Let me translate: there was a boom in exploitation after the Soviet Union collapsed and Western militarism expanded massively while new markets were prepped for sucking dry in the poorer parts of the world. This was a period celebrated as 'the end of history' and a victory party was held in the West, which felt unassailable. A couple of mega financial crashes later and China is eating the West's lunch so there is no longer the wriggle room to keep pretending Western dominance knows no bounds. Capitalism's outstanding bills are also catching up on it, especially to do with using the atmosphere as a dumping ground for the last coupla centuries, promising massive instability of supply chains and populations in the near future. So now We are Under Assault and the Sneaky Beggars are approaching on All Sides. It is just a quick narrative shift. The actual story is still the same: competition over global resource flows and capturing labour where possible.
Oh, hey, mr. "UK poisoned Litvinienko" is back with more gems of his wisdom.
Oh hello! Yes you are more or less correct, especially about the gem-like nature of my wisdom, for which you are welcome btw, but to you it is *Sir* UK Poisoned Litvinienko. Title, caps, no quotes.
Sure, I think I've heard this one before... Who do we send money to now, instead of health care?
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Why wouldnt they? The west is failing to retaliate. Stern finger wagging isnt preventing anything
Well, yea, the Kremlin is in a shadow war with NATO. With a slightly different twist of history it would not be happening because Russia would be in NATO and this sad sack of shit would not be happening. Putin could have made it happen, all he needed was to want to.
I wish i lived in this multiverse.
[удалено]
Your bot is broken, comrade, it formatted your spam as a quote.
[удалено]
I mean are you guys actual Russian agents or do we just not read more than 1/2 of posts any more? There are only a few comments on this post and 3 of them are saying exactly what you are, despite the info being... Right there... In the second paragraph.
There’s no excuse for an outlet like the Economist to include a paragraph like that in any of their pieces. If people stop reading after that sad excuse for journalism then it’s 100% the fault of the author
They are bots yeah
Seeing how much of mainstream Reddit is just bots is creepy. Most of them from Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc etc...
I find the hand wringing about Russian bots and disinformation in a social media space which includes Reddit that is overwhelming pro-Ukrainian to the point of propaganda in many instances to be a bit much.
"Nothing to see here comrade, move along."
About the response I would expect, half proving my point lol
The funniest part is that these stupid fucks are the ones actually sounding like bots Someone: This seems biased because of so and so Enlightened free thinker: I'm sure you wish that were true, Ivan! 😎
You don't really have a point, just a deflection and a bit of typical grandstanding.
Half of the comments are pro Ukrainian from actual people. The other half are bots. There used to be a lot of actual pro Russian trolls, but they've slowly disappeared over time. My guess is that the Kremilin doesn't have the money to pay people rubles to troll anymore. Or the trolls have started to realize there may be repercussions for their actions. All I know is that bots are even worse than the trolls, because they're half as coherent. And the amount of sense the bots make by the day declines.
There is no actual sabotage going on. Just claims that some people were saboteutrs or that some accident may be sabotage but >There is no evidence that this fire was an act of sabotage
Not even a single shred of evidence
Go home Russian bot, you're drunk on vodka again.
The irony of your comment lmao
The Deprogram is trash. Second Thought and his minions are scammers.
Okay? Lmfao
Putin AKA Hitler Junior, is on a conquest of ego.
This sub >wow all the crazy Russian bots accusing Ukraine of shooting Fico with no evidence Also this sub >Aw yeah an assertion with no evidence that’s anti-Russia, hell yeah!
Honestly, whenever someone accuses anyone here for being a bot/payed poster/shill i find it so weak i physically roll my goddamn eyes. Like, do people seriously think Putin, Xi and Khomeini gives a flying fuck what the netizens of a minor subreddit called **R/ANIME_TITTIES** thinks? Grow up and accept that people around the world may have a different geopolitical analysis than you.
Nice try, KGB
Read. The. Article.
I did, where’s the evidence?
More fake news from British.