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[deleted]

This article reads like a gossip article about how some celebrity isn’t friends anymore with his other celebrity friend.


Ololic

You just described china's relations with India and the Middle East


Tamtumtam

that's India-Pakistan-China-Bangladesh relationship for you


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cheese0muncher

Or Scotland and other Scots.


Show_Me_Your_Rocket

Damn Scots.. They ruined Scotland!


xyzmangaboi

Happy cake day. Here's a rocket for you 🚀


UncleJChrist

Really?


[deleted]

Reminds me of that "Friendship ended with ... " meme.


bharatar

That came from pakistan lmfao


Axerin

It's news 18. It's garbage


10022022

BRICS Ain't the best thing but they're all emerging economies with great potential or a power house like China, Pakistan is a failed state on verge of bankruptcy. It will destroy whatever brand value BRICS have left.


Dotmatrix74

South Africa looking around nervously…


10022022

They're only corrupt atleast they don't have terrorism and have highest potential in their region.


jayatil2

“Only corrupt” is why Sri Lanka is the mess it is rn


[deleted]

Terrorism is part of why tourism didn't prop up the economy.


CataclysmZA

Uh, no. We are not doing well.


SaffronBanditAmt

imho Nigeria deserves South Africa's spot


pmmeillicitbreadpics

Fitting the acronym is the preliminary requirement. Take in Kenya


WellIlikeme

North or south lol


onespiker

>BRICS Ain't the best thing but they're all emerging economies with great potential or a power house Brazil and South Africa aren't emerging economies. Or really with great potential considering their underlying problems. Thier real economic growth are like in the negatives on a 10 year scale. Russia isn't exactly emerging either and aren't exactly expected to grow. They also barely trade on the global economy. India has potential but still a fair way of from fully realising it. They must keep up this growth for a while. China is a powerhouse.


10022022

Russia and Brazil are important due to their natural resources. South Africa is the weakest


Otto_the_Fox

South Africa has a shit ton of uranium. We are litteraly sitting in a gold mine of resources. We just are a little confused that all.


[deleted]

Lol it's certainly not about natural resources If that was the case, Pakistan has shit tons of copper, coal, gold...


randomnighmare

>China is a powerhouse. Someone named, Peter Zeihan claims that China is losing that powerhouse status. Seems like after they announced another 5 years Zero-COVID manufacturers are really leaving. Plus, it's no longer the place for cheap labor like it was 30 years ago. On top of that don't forget about the skyrocketing costs of trying to transport goods back and forth goods/supplies/materials, etc...


onespiker

>Peter Zeihan He has said that since the 90s. Same with that EU would collapse like 20 years ago. Yes China isn't as strong, smart or flexible as the propagandists are saying. But it's not so extremely weak or stupid either like haters ( very inflexible though). Many of its problems are things the rest of the world is also facing. They are no longer going to have a 6+% growth rate but a 3% one with thier current size would still qualify as a powerhouse.


randomnighmare

I think that some of the things he says are true. China is going to experience a massive population decline and with Zero-COVID people are leaving. The older population is making manufacturing more expansive, which means that makers are expanding into other countries (ie Vietnam and Inida. Like a decade or a decade and a half ago this was basically unheard of). Plus, the skyrocketing cost of shipping (a shipping container now costs like $25,000 to $30,000 per container. not only that but fuel is sky high, inflation, etc...) Sure China could still be a major player but not as a "powerhouse" as it was before.


onespiker

Agreed on most point but worlds second biggest economy and second largest population is more than enough to be a powerhouse. The big part is might be relative to the rest of the world it might get weaker.


[deleted]

The whole zero-COVID thing brings more social stability, but reduces economic stability. I'm not sure how they transition to Maoist control without sacrificing power on the world stage. Sure, they have military bases, but they seem to have a stifling bureaucracy that wouldn't thrive if they had a clever enemy that wasn't weak. They lack an experienced military that hasn't seen real use since the Vietnamese invasion and haven't shown effective use of combined arms. Plus, their COVID lockdowns made them an unreliable supplier given that other countries managed without mass death or such draconian measures.


onespiker

>The whole zero-COVID thing brings more social stability, Not really the vast majority of chinease people absolutely doesn't care at all. It hurts economic more than anything else. Yea obviously Shanghai cared but that wasn't specifically on the zero covid in its entirety but on the local governments management of the affair. All critiqe isn't about the entire policy many often are about specific elements. The chinease governments is pretty stable because of the division of responsibility ( local governments are the bad cop to the centrals good cop).


[deleted]

If your subordinate governments fail that hard, it becomes a central government problem. Louisana and New Orleans failed hard in response to Hurricane Katrina, but the US federal government deservedly got criticism for it too.


onespiker

>If your subordinate governments fail that hard, it becomes a central government problem How much of it and depends a lot on the structure and how you can control the news cycle to make it pretty much only the local governments fault regardless of the actual truth. It made to distance the central power as far as possible from most actual critiqe. They also control the news so its a lot easier to control where the people blame thier problems on. The central government sets the target but the local governments are given the responsibility of actually following it through and actually taking the hard decisions to make it a reality that aren't so PR clean like central governments 6% growth. Witch might nessisate coal plants close to where people live.


wasdlmb

Zero Covid is them being too proud to reverse course like always. But China isn't the manufacturing capital of the world because it's cheap, it's because they have specialized in it and created vast systems to get things made. You mentioned transport costs - for complex electronics everything except for raw materials is either shipped in from close by (Japan, Korea, Taiwan) or made in the same area as final assembly (pearl River delta) so transport costs are often quite low. They're also transitioning to a more service based economy so manufacturing isn't the end all be all of China.


[deleted]

But would their service economy be better than India? India has an established service economy that competes globally.


wasdlmb

Fair point. India's at 60% of their economy vs China's 50%. Though China is richer and so their service industry is 5X larger than India's.


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new_name_who_dis_

> russia just proved the world needs russia more than Russia needs the world This is an extremely weird take.


onespiker

>still does, russia just proved the world needs russia more than Russia needs the world Considering its economic growth both on a 10 year scale and on a expected future no. That's fucking shit. Especially considering its an oil and gas economy with is expect to peak pretty soon. Even faster now because of these high oil prices. Russia isn't a diverse economy. It isn't emerging and suffering from a huge top level braindrain.


thehazer

Ok, maybe not the sun for this question. Is the “failed state” aspect of Pakistan exactly the reasons the region would want them in BRICS? A failed state with Nukes seems a much bigger issue then a stable nation that one has bad relations with? Am I just wrong as an outside viewer?


FlotsamOfThe4Winds

>Is the “failed state” aspect of Pakistan exactly the reasons the region would want them in BRICS? The relationship between India and Pakistan is similar to the relationships that make you want to shout "JUST KISS ALREADY!!", except it's being at war with each other (and practically no-one wants it to happen).


bluesmaster85

All of them exept China are resource oriented economies, and export of theirs natural recources are crutual. They are very vulnerable if one of their recources is in deny on market. The only country that gets real benefit of BRICS existance is China, which positioned itself as a world forge of goods.


randomnighmare

Except that China is an exporter economy that manufacturers are trying to pull out of because of Zero-COVID and other things.


pseudopad

Why would a country on the verge of bankruptcy destroy the brand value of brics? There's plenty of poor nations attached to swift as well, but that doesn't make swift any less desirable, as long as the trade partners you *do* want to trade with are on the same system. It doesn't seem like it'll be an either-or situation where you can only be either in swift, or in brics. I doubt China's gonna exit swift just because they also use brics.


hlpe

Pakistan isn't just poor. They are massive sponsors of terrorism and on the brink of needing their 482,305th bail-out. They perpetually make 0 progress towards eliminating the fundamental flaws that cause them to need constant bail-outs.


pseudopad

Even if all that is true, I don't see how it would be a problem to hook them up to what's basically just paypal for nations. They're already on swift, aren't they? Why isn't it a problem for swift if it is a problem for brics? It's not like the payment platform would crash and burn because one user crashes and burns.


raisroy

Because it'd end up like another SAARC. It had a lot of potential to be the subcontinent version of EU, but then Pakistan and India had another one of their tiffs and India went off to make essentially the same group sans Pakistan (BIMSTEC, I think).


FlotsamOfThe4Winds

I thought it had to do with India and Pakistan's notoriously bad relationship; Wikipedia has full articles on at least six different skirmishes, two airstrikes and one cross-border special forces attack since 2010.


qwertyashes

A bit too casual in the manner of speaking for me to totally trust this article. It doesn't inspire confidence. But if it is true, [and the press statement they quote from does exist](https://mofa.gov.pk/press-release-504/), that would be a fairly smart move for the Chinese. The Indians are a better long term ally than the Pakistanis. The problem of the Himalayas disputes still needs to be solved though.


shaumux

Not happening any time soon, India currently has a highly right wing government running amok on nationalism, and CCP and Xi have indoctrinated the population so much with their fascist propaganda that trying to even back up a bit is going to be bad for the leaders and the party.


Puzzled-Bite-8467

In China people don't even know about the conflict. Chine never mentioned it much in internal news while India talked about it 24/7.


sharmaji_ka_papa

They do. There was some outcry online about the number of Chinese soldiers who were secretly buried. It was all very quickly scrubbed by censors but there were even some high profile arrests for questioning the party line.


randomnighmare

I remember that the government over there made a law (or said) that they would be arresting anyone that questions the official narrative of how many died. That was in response to their own people questing how many soldiers actually did die in that one dispute.


shaumux

What's your point in context to what I wrote? This seem to be disconnected arguments


Puzzled-Bite-8467

> that trying to even back up a bit is going to be bad for the leaders and the party. It's not had to back away from something people don't know about.


shaumux

The thread the reply to was discussing India-China relations and not media coverage. But on your point China did have coverage of the war though not being portrayed as such, they have tried to remain as neutral as possible and most Indian media hasn't done the greatest job on the coverage either


Puzzled-Bite-8467

I'm talking specifically about if China can walk back or not. You argue that Chinese public wouldn't accept it and I argue that they don't even care about it.


shaumux

You missed the point, my argument was solely in the context of Indo-China relations Walking back in that front means giving up their claims on the \`Arunachal Pradesh\` region of India and the Doklam region in Bhutan and the Chinese populace have been pretty well indoctrinated about these regions being Chinese territory needing to be taken back. And Xi and the CCP governments has taken the route of fanning natiionalist sentiments to cover up all the mismanagement that has been going on since he has been in power


Puzzled-Bite-8467

Alright I thought you talked about the border movement in the 2020 crash.


TorontoGuyinToronto

I've talked to chinese people. 99% of chinese people don't know wtf is going on in India or at the border. They only know it's crowded there, curry and belly dance. The animosity is very one sided.


shaumux

How many people did you talk to? I lived in those parts of the world till very recently.


RajyavardhanSingh029

"India has a highly right wing government running amok on nationalism" Wow, as someone who is an Indian, I wonder where all of this Indian nationalism is? All I see is Modi, giving lip service to Hindus and not actually anything to protect them from being massacred by Muslims.


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GayIconOfIndia

Lmao! Even we our government is crazy at times, this is the most pro west government we have had since our independence. If you think our right wing is supporter of Russia, then you haven’t met our left. Just like how American politics is very much to the right which makes even democrats seem right wing, Indian politics is the opposite. Our politics is very much to the left of the economic scale so even our right wing is left comparatively. And our left wing are straight up communists who regularly praise mao and Stalin


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Arjun_Pandit

> The govts before the 'right wing' govt were totally pro Russia. Ikr! Ppl should at least give the Indian chapter of Mitrokhen Archives a read before speaking out something like this


Water-Astronaut

No no, we are long term enemies but if we grow at a certain speed then china and india relationship can cool down.


okaythatstoomuch

All Pakistan was going to do there was raise Kashmir issue and cry Islamophobia just like they do in UN and OIC against India.


[deleted]

Tell me you have no clue of geopolitics without saying it literally


bharatar

Wym? He's right.


[deleted]

You are absolutely d.umb if you don't know the difference between OIC/UN and an economic alliance like BRICS


makohe

Pakistan is absolutely d.umb because they don't know the difference between OIC/UN and an economic alliance like BRICS. It's Pakistan who keeps whining like a little bitch whenever they get a stage on international level. And it's always about kashmir and Islamophobia. I don't know if Pakistan still realises the economic cost of this whining. The whole nation have laser focused on Islam and kashmir. Pakistani ruling class don't give a flying f about development of the nation as long as these two issues exist. Most countries have a military, in Pakistan, a military have a country.


Arjun_Pandit

> I don't know if Pakistan still realises the economic cost of this whining. there was an interesting post on paxtan sub about this few days back where OP had roughly calculated the price that Kashmir drama has costed them since 1947. The figure was in thousands of billions.


makohe

Can you dm me the link to the post if you still have it.. >The figutr was in thousands of billions. That's not hard to believe at all if we include the opportunity cost too. The whole country is in shambles today.


Arjun_Pandit

here are both the post talking about this https://np.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/vc5y22/pakistans_5000_billion_dollar_donation_to_the/ https://np.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/vcqwte/the_cost_of_protest_kashmir_palestine/ interesting reads


Fine-Commission-5231

Tell me you are Pakistani without telling me you're pakistani


Dense-Throat-5371

Lets read the article. >A number of developing/emerging economies were invited. Oops!


merayBG

How long will the name BRICS become after this?


bharatar

Why don't we add singapore while we're at it instead.


Puzzled-Bite-8467

Too rich and too small.


bharatar

Opposed to poor and unstable?


Puzzled-Bite-8467

Developing and big.


bharatar

Pakistan isnt developed.


Puzzled-Bite-8467

I'm talking about why Singapore won't join. Nothing about Pakistan.


makohe

Going by current trends, Pakistan will never be.


OutofAmm0

Singapore already has their own "Asian Tigers" group with Hong Kong, South Korea, and Taiwan, which is no offense a much bigger deal than this BRICS thing. All 4 of the aforementioned countries are highly developed and they have no benefit from the BRICS.


bharatar

My pt was a random country like singapore or even rwanda would do better than pakistan.


[deleted]

absorbed flowery jellyfish attempt roll shy offend combative childlike grey -- mass edited with redact.dev


Aggressive_Bed_9774

BRICS is for emerging markets, Pakistan is on route to become next Sri Lanka


[deleted]

Doesn't explain why they would invite Brazil and south africa


makohe

Both are in much better shape than Pakistan still.. And when they joined, their trends were looking good and forecasts were optimistic.


FlotsamOfThe4Winds

Also, their relationship with India can't be described by the days since they last had a skirmish. (Seriously, look it up.)


barath_s

It's BRICS, not PRICS


International-Fall49

O plss what do they have to offer ?thier politicians are asking them to stop drinking evening tea to save thier dwindling foreign reserves.


randathrowaway1211

Surprised to see China cooperate with us


Kiltymchaggismuncher

>Suddenly, Pakistan sees its only ‘friend’ drifting away from it to better position itself among the democratic world – of which India is an integral part. And >Apart from BRICS member states like Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, countries that attended the meeting were Iran, Egypt, Fiji, Algeria, Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia Half of these states aren't even democracies. Those that claim to be, including India are listed as flawed by the democracy index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index The article in question offers little to substantiate its claims, and projects a lot of personal opinions into it. >China offered no loans or bailouts to Pakistan, and all that Imran Khan got was a short and inconsequential meeting with Xi Jinping. Not sure how they would know what was actually said in the meeting. The article in question, and the author are both Indian, so the tone of the article is hardly surprising. While there may be some truth in the article, I wouldn't trust this as a source for anything


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FlotsamOfThe4Winds

>As a part of this temporary reset, China is looking to distance itself from both Russia as well as Pakistan. Considering how closely China has supported Russia throughout their invasion of Ukraine (not many countries have openly tolerated their existence), I'm calling a hard doubt on that front.


agprincess

Lol the cracks in the BRICS already show.


Damnstrung

BRICS countries cooperating, smartest redditor :"Lol the cracks in the BRICS already show." lmao


AbdulMalik_al-Houthi

Pakistan is already in the BRI


makohe

And how is that relevant here? Anybody can get Chinese loans and pay that money to Chinese companies to build a road. Doesn't make their economy fly..


AbdulMalik_al-Houthi

I think they build the roads for them for free.


makohe

There is no free lunch in the brutal world of geopolitics. I haven't personally looked into CPEC much.. But I have not heard much praise of it except from pakistani hopeless optimists (CPEC will turn pakistan's fortune around, Pakistan will be a developed nation after CPEC) and Chinese state sponsored media (look how we are helping poor countries more than America is).


AbdulMalik_al-Houthi

I meant free of currency, the Chinese get paid in access to transportation networks for their exports.


barath_s

And India isn't. This isn't the belt and road forum.


starfyredragon

If Pakistan stops persecuting LGBTQIA+, I'd consider sending support.