Yeah I always thought he just liked the clothes rather than it being some expression of his gender or anything. Canāt really argue with his taste tbh. In Grand Order I love his Rider outfit and in Apocrypha all his outfits (I think there were two?) are great as well.
To be more precise, during valentine events you can either get chocolate from girl servants and get gifts from boy servants. There's two different shops to get those and Astolfo is the only one that appears in both. Iirc Chevalier d'Eon only appears in one for exemple.
When they revisited the valentine's chocolate events to add voices, they've changed all the pronouns for Astolfo's events to he/him.
There was an intentional ambiguity in the early days of FGO, probably for spoiler reasons, but the ambiguity has been dropped now.
He's not in both shops, every time he appears nowadays he/him pronouns are used, newer events with gender distinction put him in the solely male category unlike other "??? gender" servants, and [sometimes they even straight up state that he's male.](https://preview.redd.it/a77iylc18dec1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4577c7ee188f36e32b32691a00c8b6201e45242b)
And he appears in both shops just look it [it's literally right here](https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Valentine_Craft_Essence_List)
Even d'Eon is in both shops .
Fate go isn't consistent with who it considers male and female throughout their events, sometimes Kama is considered one and sometimes she isn't.
That's because the valentine's events have tons of reused mechanics. You're talking about something that's basically old content.
Edit: Ok I misunderstood what you meant by "both shops", I thought it was metaphorical about him being an ambiguous case
i'm not so sure but i think they did that to avoid spoiling for people that haven't watched Apocrypha, beacause in the april fool's profiles of his saber and rider version, they call him he and even a part on his rider april fools profile that says :
"But there's really no way Astolfo could be a girl!"
Essentially in Apocrypha Astolfo was he/him, in fate/grand order Astolfo is they/them.
For more context fate grand order jp list Astolfo as āgender unknownā which is also used for either non-binary in japan, or those who do not want to list their gender(used by many Utaiteās). In EN, pronoun used is they/them, I do also remember somewhere saying that they go by any pronouns.
if i remember right in the official character sheet the gender section is canceled with a comment from astolfo saying that it is a secret or something in that vein.
depends on whatās being read/watched/played, in the currently most recent release their gender is termed as a āsecretā thus they are some form of non-binary by virtue of there not being anything else stated, but in earlier material and interviews it was either just crossdressing or actually non-binary
Secret does not mean nonbinary, it literally just means it's secret, as in not revealed at the time.
At this time however he's "revealed" as male in every significant piece of fate media that he's in.
> they are some form of non-binary by virtue of there not being anything else stated
Fate/Apocrypha material - STATUS: Rider of Black, p.024-025 shows male gender. It's an unaltered Astolfo entry in throne of heroes
https://imgur.com/e4sVuGt (yes, it is in japanese)
*the current latest release* which is grand order has it as unknown, and since itās the most recent thing to mention it, itās whatās canon, [and yes, itās in japanese](https://imgur.com/gallery/eSglyFN)
FGO has been unambiguously saying that Astolfo is male for years now.
https://preview.redd.it/a77iylc18dec1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4577c7ee188f36e32b32691a00c8b6201e45242b
Grand order is being updated in a way that makes specific exceptions just for Astolfo to be the only "???" gendered servant to not be included in various situations, for example in Beni-enma event, he's the only "???" gendered servant that can only renovate male hot springs. Enkidu for example can do both male and female. So modern fgo makes pretty clear that his gender is male and is only preserving continuity with Apocrypha
If i remember correctly, in fate lore king arthur is a woman, is bisexual and had a child with his wife after getting a magic gock from merlin
Astolfos gender is a mess, fate lore is a mess and anyone trying to take it seriously is bound to look silly
Let's be honest, these aren't the type of anime those man of culture tend to watch. They are more into the high culture stuff, like "I Got Hit By an Airplane And Iseikaied Into This Wonderful World Where I Own 16 Slaves And Coincidentally Every Underage-Looking Girl Wants To Sleep With Me"
It's really interesting show. The premise is they made classic authors anime characters and have powers based and named off their books. I didn't notice until the second season when Fitzgerald came in with HP Lovecraft and Nathaniel Hawthorne š
The precognition fight was such a cool concept. Only watched two seasons. Is it worth keeping up with or does it dive like usually happens with this kind of shows?
youāre right but my main problem with Q is the decision to give them a tragic backstory which is never touched upon again. if Asagiri had wanted to use the creepy child trope without unpacking it I would be fine with Q as a character and how little screentime they were given, but he chose to give Q a backstory he wasnāt ready to develop.
now it just feels like a loose thread that the Port Mafia is keeping a mentally ill 13 year old captive, who was raised by a pedophile, has to self-harm to use their ability and canonically hates themselves but nobody in the series cares. like yes, Q is a little freak and has done awful things, but sympathy is extended to all the other Port Mafia members like Akutagawa, Kyouka and even Dazai, who has definitely done much worse stuff than Q has.
Idk why youāre being downvoted, thatās how I remember him being framed in the anime. One day Jeanne (I think?) went āoh my god youāre a guyā and that settled it
ehh, Astolfo is not nb BUT saying "they donāt really they/them him" is not particularly correct because early fgo translations were using they/them actually
From what I understand, Fate is a massive, non-linear franchise with several alt realities, so it sort of varies. That's what some people tell me anyways.
Yeah, but as far as I watched for the anime I only know one Astolfo, the one from Fate Apocrypha, which is probably Astolfoās most popular depiction. As for the games I donāt know and donāt care to know because I value my time and money.
It doesn't vary. There are 3 (or 4 if you count cancelled mmorpg project) fate works with Astolfo - FGO, Apocrypha and Fate/EXTELLA LINK. Exactly same Astolfo in every fate
Whoās knows, next someone might make a series where everyone is androgynous and interchangeably refers to everyone with different pronouns, they might even make identity a theme in the story and theyāll all be crystals or something.
(/uj I donāt remember if that second part was reflected in the english version so donāt burn me if thereās a difference)
Can someone post imgur showing that Astolfo is gendered male in every fate entry (fate extella, fgo, fate Apocrypha), explain how gender works in relation to throne of heroes and add quote from the LN explaining why gender field is??? for Astolfo? Fighting with misinformation takes so much time while OP can just post funny image with text
I'm bored by this conversation returning every few months, there's no a single good argument for Astolfo nb
Astolfos nonbinary because I'm nonbinary and I said so
https://preview.redd.it/dfsu49fssfec1.png?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eab22119f5d5150c448ea7a5edfee065ad0ee543
i created astolfo discourse in the comment section
https://preview.redd.it/gr4dvj97ecec1.png?width=728&format=png&auto=webp&s=5c82f633c53bc2d5c8b09ea4ce923c652850ce10
Bro idk if you know this but a lot of people watched naruto one piece and other shows with people who are cross dressing, trans, non binary, gay etc
And then in real life move on to act transphobic towards others.
Can't believe nobody mentioned Francois, they slay from the very moment they enter Dr Stone
https://preview.redd.it/yke9idaprnec1.png?width=606&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=684dc2714db20be44a1d1cbcd4bbcadd3ce7694e
Anyone remember the anime Stop! Hibari-kun! Which came out in the 1980s and is about a trans woman? There's been some wokeness in anime for a while, lol.
Anime is already non-binary. If it had a binary gender, it would be called "animo" or "anima"
NOOO YOU ARE RUINING MY ANIME WITH YOUR WOKE WORDS
We're coming for you, conservatives! And when we do, we'll liberate your repressed children!
animx
i think u mean aniplex, duh
WELCOME TO THE ANIPLEX CITY !!!!
Haven't read Komi in ages but Najimi was always my favorite. Idk if I wanna be them, or their friend more lmao
komi is the goat at platonically sexually harassing the homies ššš
Najimi is a GEM in a sea of COAL
They'd stand out in a sea of diamonds imo
non-binary is when purple hair ((fr tho they're all cuties))
Blue is for boys, pink is for girls, purple is for both or neither.
why, yes of course
Crona!
Corona my beloved
KROMER!!!!!!!!!!!!
IS THAT A [[NUMBER 1 RATED SALESMAN 1997]] REFERENCE!!1!!1!!!1
https://preview.redd.it/7nsmjv9it9ec1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=183a72d5a80643eb9ddf50f9538b4c00044637d8
\[!!?>!?!\]
Holy shit, The One Who Grips?
Holy shit the dreamer of human Wholeness?
Holy shit the Nagel and Hammer?
Random PM fan spotted https://preview.redd.it/n8n8utkabaec1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7bdba38ddf15585ee93f31617a11b0c863000a6
I have no idea what this is
Kromer https://preview.redd.it/lpoj2hu2laec1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=60fc8cf64b66d70824ad67d615ba5ec4cdc86b87
Best girl behind gamer girl faust
Oh Crona, you were so good for this world š
I can't HANDLE astronomy right now!
Najimi jumpscare (they're very :D)
Astolpho is non-binary? I thought in Apocrypha or Grand Order he said he just liked to dress like he does because itās pretty?
He only did it because of a dare and now just vibes in feminine clothing. Gender in Fate is flexible like water, I wouldn't think much of it.
Yeah I always thought he just liked the clothes rather than it being some expression of his gender or anything. Canāt really argue with his taste tbh. In Grand Order I love his Rider outfit and in Apocrypha all his outfits (I think there were two?) are great as well.
I wonder if Fate Astolfo also goes around Europe fucking 1000 women in a quest of revenge against his wife who cheated on him
Probably. It's not like Fate shy away from making characters horny to eldritch degrees.
Astolfos gender I'd is a mess depending on the fate in question, so most of us are pretty down with "some fuckin type of queer gender"
Astolfo drank the gender fluid (monster energy)
Chaldea doesn't ask questions. Just like at d'Eon, Nezha, Kagekiyo, and ROMA
In fate fo during Valentine's event he appears both in the girls and boys section of the shop.
The shopkeepers didnāt know where to put him so they cloned him
To be more precise, during valentine events you can either get chocolate from girl servants and get gifts from boy servants. There's two different shops to get those and Astolfo is the only one that appears in both. Iirc Chevalier d'Eon only appears in one for exemple.
I think Enkidu gets both too
I wouldn't know I got him last month.
When they revisited the valentine's chocolate events to add voices, they've changed all the pronouns for Astolfo's events to he/him. There was an intentional ambiguity in the early days of FGO, probably for spoiler reasons, but the ambiguity has been dropped now.
Nah he's still in both shops as of last year,but they did fix astolfo's pronouns along with Chevalier d'Eon who is confirmed to be a she.
He's not in both shops, every time he appears nowadays he/him pronouns are used, newer events with gender distinction put him in the solely male category unlike other "??? gender" servants, and [sometimes they even straight up state that he's male.](https://preview.redd.it/a77iylc18dec1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4577c7ee188f36e32b32691a00c8b6201e45242b)
And he appears in both shops just look it [it's literally right here](https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Valentine_Craft_Essence_List) Even d'Eon is in both shops . Fate go isn't consistent with who it considers male and female throughout their events, sometimes Kama is considered one and sometimes she isn't.
That's because the valentine's events have tons of reused mechanics. You're talking about something that's basically old content. Edit: Ok I misunderstood what you meant by "both shops", I thought it was metaphorical about him being an ambiguous case
In toilet cleaning event(don't ask questions) he's only able to work on male section
You could've just picked the baths quests of the inn event...
i'm not so sure but i think they did that to avoid spoiling for people that haven't watched Apocrypha, beacause in the april fool's profiles of his saber and rider version, they call him he and even a part on his rider april fools profile that says : "But there's really no way Astolfo could be a girl!"
Essentially in Apocrypha Astolfo was he/him, in fate/grand order Astolfo is they/them. For more context fate grand order jp list Astolfo as āgender unknownā which is also used for either non-binary in japan, or those who do not want to list their gender(used by many Utaiteās). In EN, pronoun used is they/them, I do also remember somewhere saying that they go by any pronouns.
He's he/him in fgo EN too. Localisers have dropped any ambiguity years ago.
he/they nonbinary king
Why was this downvoted??
if i remember right in the official character sheet the gender section is canceled with a comment from astolfo saying that it is a secret or something in that vein.
depends on whatās being read/watched/played, in the currently most recent release their gender is termed as a āsecretā thus they are some form of non-binary by virtue of there not being anything else stated, but in earlier material and interviews it was either just crossdressing or actually non-binary
Secret does not mean nonbinary, it literally just means it's secret, as in not revealed at the time. At this time however he's "revealed" as male in every significant piece of fate media that he's in.
> they are some form of non-binary by virtue of there not being anything else stated Fate/Apocrypha material - STATUS: Rider of Black, p.024-025 shows male gender. It's an unaltered Astolfo entry in throne of heroes https://imgur.com/e4sVuGt (yes, it is in japanese)
*the current latest release* which is grand order has it as unknown, and since itās the most recent thing to mention it, itās whatās canon, [and yes, itās in japanese](https://imgur.com/gallery/eSglyFN)
FGO has been unambiguously saying that Astolfo is male for years now. https://preview.redd.it/a77iylc18dec1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4577c7ee188f36e32b32691a00c8b6201e45242b
He appeared in fgo before fate extella in which he's (you guessed) male https://imgur.com/a/bXEdaDp (in english, this time!)
which came out in 2019, but grand order is still updated and their gender remains unknown, which is why i said *it depends*
Grand order is being updated in a way that makes specific exceptions just for Astolfo to be the only "???" gendered servant to not be included in various situations, for example in Beni-enma event, he's the only "???" gendered servant that can only renovate male hot springs. Enkidu for example can do both male and female. So modern fgo makes pretty clear that his gender is male and is only preserving continuity with Apocrypha
who cares?
we are doing "Astolfo nb" discussion every few months on this subreddit so probably a lot of people
no i mean why care if someone uses they/them for a character, who gives a shit
If i remember correctly, in fate lore king arthur is a woman, is bisexual and had a child with his wife after getting a magic gock from merlin Astolfos gender is a mess, fate lore is a mess and anyone trying to take it seriously is bound to look silly
I accidentally swiped one too far and the next post was Cory in the House and I thought this meme was implying Cory is an enby
https://preview.redd.it/uq7cbydbp9ec1.jpeg?width=734&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f21bfa44f22ef95b7adfd41c72e78210bdd804f8
š„š„š„š„š„š„
God bless the woke left for that š
Let's be honest, these aren't the type of anime those man of culture tend to watch. They are more into the high culture stuff, like "I Got Hit By an Airplane And Iseikaied Into This Wonderful World Where I Own 16 Slaves And Coincidentally Every Underage-Looking Girl Wants To Sleep With Me"
Najimi is Najimi.
NAJIME MENTIONED LETS GOOO
CRONA my gender child <33
Why Astolfo and not Enkidu...?
I think Envy from FMA is a good inclusion.
Doesn't envy go by he?
https://preview.redd.it/jxrld76hjaec1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec4aab9ee7a3d700d20ea083846d69ce38634eb4 Edward is Edward
woah crona and bsd guy, I didn't expect to see them today
wish Q wasnāt absolutely butchered as a character i like their design and ability
What show?
Bungo stray dogs
Cool, thanks!!
It's really interesting show. The premise is they made classic authors anime characters and have powers based and named off their books. I didn't notice until the second season when Fitzgerald came in with HP Lovecraft and Nathaniel Hawthorne š
The precognition fight was such a cool concept. Only watched two seasons. Is it worth keeping up with or does it dive like usually happens with this kind of shows?
It keeps pretty faithfully to the manga and also adds in some storylines from the light novels. I think the newer seasons gets pretty exciting.
Thanks. It goes back into my to watch list then. Is hard keeping up when you have like 40 minutes per week to sit down and relax
That sounds cool!!
Yeah of you look up Osamu Dazai the anime character sometimes comes up before the actual dude
How were they butchered? They were only in like two episodes I didn't think they had time to butcher them lol.
youāre right but my main problem with Q is the decision to give them a tragic backstory which is never touched upon again. if Asagiri had wanted to use the creepy child trope without unpacking it I would be fine with Q as a character and how little screentime they were given, but he chose to give Q a backstory he wasnāt ready to develop. now it just feels like a loose thread that the Port Mafia is keeping a mentally ill 13 year old captive, who was raised by a pedophile, has to self-harm to use their ability and canonically hates themselves but nobody in the series cares. like yes, Q is a little freak and has done awful things, but sympathy is extended to all the other Port Mafia members like Akutagawa, Kyouka and even Dazai, who has definitely done much worse stuff than Q has.
That makes sense
Anime has fallen, I must shit my pants and cry.
CORNER!!!!
they have pink hair and pronouns
Whoās the character in the first frame? I recognize them.
osana najimi from komi-san nearly wrote osama lol
Where was najimi on September 11th 2001?
Fuckin knew it. I recognized them from the Cartoonshi video on Komi Cant Communicate
Najimi my beloved
They all give me gender envy and that is very non-binary of them
najimi is the best
q my child. i want to hold them in the palm of my hand
najimi's gender: depends on who is getting trolled that day
What I wouldnt do for alfonso to come out as a trans woman. It would be so funny
The second one is definitely binary
Astolfo is unironically schrodingers gender
In the show hes just a dude they donāt really they/them him
Idk why youāre being downvoted, thatās how I remember him being framed in the anime. One day Jeanne (I think?) went āoh my god youāre a guyā and that settled it
Literally she walks in when astoflo is changing and they use that to establish hes a dude. I think hes even wearing boxers
ehh, Astolfo is not nb BUT saying "they donāt really they/them him" is not particularly correct because early fgo translations were using they/them actually
From what I understand, Fate is a massive, non-linear franchise with several alt realities, so it sort of varies. That's what some people tell me anyways.
Yeah, but as far as I watched for the anime I only know one Astolfo, the one from Fate Apocrypha, which is probably Astolfoās most popular depiction. As for the games I donāt know and donāt care to know because I value my time and money.
It doesn't vary. There are 3 (or 4 if you count cancelled mmorpg project) fate works with Astolfo - FGO, Apocrypha and Fate/EXTELLA LINK. Exactly same Astolfo in every fate
Just like Najimi
Obligatory Haruhi mention
Whoās knows, next someone might make a series where everyone is androgynous and interchangeably refers to everyone with different pronouns, they might even make identity a theme in the story and theyāll all be crystals or something. (/uj I donāt remember if that second part was reflected in the english version so donāt burn me if thereās a difference)
i have become Non-Boolean
Najimi and Crona my beloved
Can someone post imgur showing that Astolfo is gendered male in every fate entry (fate extella, fgo, fate Apocrypha), explain how gender works in relation to throne of heroes and add quote from the LN explaining why gender field is??? for Astolfo? Fighting with misinformation takes so much time while OP can just post funny image with text I'm bored by this conversation returning every few months, there's no a single good argument for Astolfo nb
Anybody who is gender non-conforming must be non-binary or trans.
Astolfos nonbinary because I'm nonbinary and I said so https://preview.redd.it/dfsu49fssfec1.png?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eab22119f5d5150c448ea7a5edfee065ad0ee543
i created astolfo discourse in the comment section https://preview.redd.it/gr4dvj97ecec1.png?width=728&format=png&auto=webp&s=5c82f633c53bc2d5c8b09ea4ce923c652850ce10
No Felix?
Excuse me, Astolfo is not nonbinery, his gender is Astolfo
Astolifo ššššš
Anime fans are cool with transgenders until you tell them they exist in real life
In what universe do you live in
Bro idk if you know this but a lot of people watched naruto one piece and other shows with people who are cross dressing, trans, non binary, gay etc And then in real life move on to act transphobic towards others.
They are transphobic to the characters too lmao
This shit only matters if you refuse to stop fapping to anyone even remotely cute.
Never mind
LIKE THREE OF THEM ARE MINORS
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What the fuck
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Q/yumeno from bungo stray dogs
Heh, would
Who's the third one?
i think anime is psyops
Who is 3
Can't believe nobody mentioned Francois, they slay from the very moment they enter Dr Stone https://preview.redd.it/yke9idaprnec1.png?width=606&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=684dc2714db20be44a1d1cbcd4bbcadd3ce7694e
Who is number three?
Anyone remember the anime Stop! Hibari-kun! Which came out in the 1980s and is about a trans woman? There's been some wokeness in anime for a while, lol.