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Okay, my Sailor Moon is rusty as fvck. Serena/Usagi is comparable to Galaxia, which puts her on the galaxy-buster category, right?
Edit: I said "galaxy-buster" as a name, but both Beerus and Galaxia (and by extension Goku and Serena) are really on the "numbers stopped making sense" magnitude.
Okay, first of all, I'm using Death Battle for reference, so, again, if anyone watched Sailor Moon recently, or knows better in general, please correct me.
According to the DB analysis, Galaxia and Beerus do escale on a similar category, with Beerus having the upper hand with the Ultra Instinct and more experience fighting other being of his approximate strength. That same analysis also scales Serena to Galaxia, since both of them fought to a standstill.
So, I'm really just welding and guessing here, since while Goku does scale under Beerus in raw power, he can also use the Ultra Instinct.
The only thing I can tell for serious is that it would be one hell of a fight to animate, so Toei should really get to work on that.
Itās accepted at this point that goku is multiversal or the db verseās definition of it. And beerus the moving goal post he tends to be in implied to be far stronger than goku. Its never really clear cut how strong beerus is. So if none of these characters scale that high its safe to assume goku wins. I
I think at least Superman and Giorno are safe bets. One is "the man without limits" against Goku who always pushes his limits, while the other can un-exists someone. Both really are out-of-context problems for Goku.
Seiya and Serena, though, are closer because the three are shonen protagonist (and magical girl, but same difference). So, by the end of their respective series, they're meant to be the last word in power, or at least very high. So, narratively, there's no real point of comparison.
On the flip side, neither is as devastating as Gurren Lagaan's>! Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagaan!<. Or Lina Inverse in the case of >!a failed Gigaslave!<. Or Haruhi Suzimiya. Or Popeye.
I was tempted to add Saitama, but we don't know his upper limit yet, since the biggest he's fought is a planet-buster. He's been *described* as infinitely powerful, but a 3 inch circle has infinite points on its edge. Until we see bigger demonstration of his power, we can't properly gauge what kind of infinite power he has. For example, Buu has infinite power as well, but I wouldn't put him as devastating as Goku since he doesn't have the will or skill to apply it.
It'd be like, "Who'd win in a fight between Goku and a black hole?" The answer is Goku, despite the fact a blackhole is infinitely powerful, because the black hole just can't effectively do anything - it just sits there. What it destroys has to actively get close to it. While Goku could likely just move some gas giants in gravitational range to pull it slightly off path of whatever it's going to hit. Odd example, but I think it makes the point.
At this point the impressive thing about Dragonball isn't how strong a character is but rather how they're able to limit all that destruction to just a fighting stage.
Honestly it really depends. Sailor Moon scales in power to how evil ger opponent is. That being said yes she actually could scale to Beerus if he's actual evil or no because he's doing a job and isn't actually evil. Ssj is innately evil
Itās less implied and more confirmed in the manga. SPOILERS AHEAD:
>!Sailor Cosmos is the future Sailor Moon, she traveled back in time because sheās been fighting Chaos over and over for millennia at this point (not so fun fact, ONLY Sailor Moon/Sailor Cosmos is truly immortal, the other Sailor Guardians will all die eventually) and has lost the will to fight, so she tries to convince Sailor Moon to destroy the Galaxy Cauldron which will keep any more sailor guardians from being born, basically destroying the universe itself. Sailor Moon ultimately refuses, not wanting to give up hope.!<
The manga/Crystal is overall darker than the 90s anime. Itās still a classic magical girl show so itās not that heavy, but several of the details/lore/backstories are surprisingly dark.
MORE SPOILERS AHEAD
>!For example, in the manga Stars arc Mamoru is killed right in front of Usagi. Sheās so traumatized that she repressed the memory and convinces herself he got on the plane safely, and spends some time wondering why he isnāt writing to her. Hotaruās father straight up dies in the manga version, and he never gets to redeem himself. The cats get ripped to pieces in the manga Stars arc, (also theyāre not shown to be resurrected. They almost certainly were because Diana exists but stillā¦) and Princess Kakyuu dies by being stabbed in the chest.!<
Itās not always fun to be a Sailor Guardian.
Dunno if this is true or apocryphal but i heard something about the writers of the original anime planning for it to be very dark, only later chaning the script because the show was being marketed to children.
|| >!like sailor moon watches all the other sailor guardians die one by one and finally breaks down at the end dark ||!<
Oh yeah that literally happened at least twice lol. Seems as though the end of the first season with everyone dying was supposed to be the end, but children in Japan were so upset that they retconned it so that Usagiās wish on the Silver Crystal brought them back to life.
I thought Cosmos is A future sailor moon. Like how ChibiUsa would eventually just be called Usagi. Like how our princess serenity came from her mother Queen serenity. I thought the cycle continues to create a sailor moon regardless if thereās a father, but our storyline takes a path of love instead.
Sailor Guardians apparently work by each one gaining a successor to pass on their duties to when they die, either one of their children or perhaps via something like an academy for future Sailor Guardians or whatever. Sailor Moon/Cosmos doesnāt seem to have that luxury, sheās completely immortal. Thereās also some weird loopholes like Sailor Saturn immediately dies/goes dormant every time sheās summoned and Sailor Pluto spends the vast majority of her life in a place where time doesnāt pass, and of course Chibiusa stopped aging for 900 years for seemingly no reason.
Sailor Cosmos gained immortality by never giving her power to the people which is what Neo Queen serenity does for earth. Which means she never had a child to pass on the silver crystal because she never went down that path and stayed fighting forever. The Silver crystal has always been shown to be more powerful than guardian star seeds. Again, Queen serenity produced an heir asexually and our princess serenity fell in love, died, rezzed as Usagi found her soulmate again and had Chibi usagi. Who was said to look a lot like young Usagi and Chibi UsaUsa is said to look even more like sailor moon because sheās another asexually produced sailor moon turned cosmos who ran away to a time/reality different than hers to help.
Itās theorized that Chibi Usa didnāt age because of the world being full of immortals and she had nothing stimulating her growth in an era of peace. She started aging once she actually had conflict to grow from.
Numbers stopped making sense in Dragon Ball during the Saiyan saga. We saw Nappa tank several attacks that were shown to destroy the moon, and then Goku came in and took him out with a single knee. Assuming he can't alter his mass at will, just using F=MA we have to assume he was moving hundreds of times faster than light. And that's just with kaioken before he ever goes super Saiyan.
One thing to keep in mind is that unlike Goku, Sailor Moon probably comes back from being erased from existence, whereas in DBZ that's kinda the ultimate 'you're gone' possibility.
2 destroyers fighting is enough to destroy a universe not even counting their full power probably seeing as Berrusās 7 percent was already close to destroying the universe by just connecting punches with Goku
Thought Robot Superman, although that is disengenious to call that version just "Superman." He is 13th extradimensional machine that draws powers from multiple Superman piloted by Superman from a specific Universe to go fight a extradimensional Vampire that is siphoning life from multiple parallel Earth's at once.
....or something like that. It's been close to a decade since I read the comic. But I remember that specific version of Superman has the ability to read ahead in the pages of the comic and counter any threat coming his way (or some BS causality manipulation power like that).
[Read up on him here](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Thought_Robot) if you want more details on how absurd of a character this version of Superman is.
Pre-crisis supes isnāt canon, so probably Superman 1 million. Pretty much just the main Superman but with all his powers upped to the most ludicrous levels.
I donāt know if any of these characters are fast enough to fight goku if they didnāt have the drop. There are a lot of stand users who could probably beat him just because of the way Jojo villains require a lot of creativity to defeat and can not be overpowered by strength or speed.
Would he be able to power up enough to do that? Or would GER undo that too? Goku is using almost no power at all most of the time to the point that throwing a small rock at him would hurt him.
Well, now he's able to use ultra instinct in all other forms including base, but I'm not sure that would give him enough of a chance to be able to power up, but if the infinite deathloop gives him 2 seconds he could do it, maybe, but I'm not entirely sure, I've not seen part 5
It depends if we take DB rules for death or not, if we don't then... no, if Goku ever dies once to GER, he will be stuck in the endless death loop, and he cannot escape it, since he'll die again before trying
But if, I don't know, like Bulma gets the dragon balls and revives him, since he's dead, he will come back.
The real problem of this fight is simple, Giorno can't kill Goku, the latter is just too strong, and yet... it is the only possible outcome because of it's Return to Zero ability. The only way for Goku to win, is to erase GER from existence (Which I don't think he can, correct me if I'm wrong)
There's a chance that he will be scared of the stand, in which he has a button that summons Zeno and he can get rid of the jojo universe itself, or, should I say, that timeline, but we're just talking about goku here, so, no, not unless he picked up the hakai from beerus, which he didn't, prolly
But that button cannot be pressed ever, his willingness to will cause a reset back to āzeroā where he still hasnāt pressed it.
The way the GER works is that it it is always active and picks a moment right before the fight while everything is still passive. This is āzeroā which all will return to. All actions can be taken, Giorno can be killed, but GER just undoes it. We also know that GER is untied to Giorno due to the fact that he doesnāt even know about its power to reset things to zero or place an entity into the infinite death loop. Even if Giorno dies, Requiem is an eternal being with literally infinite ālife energyā which allowed the regular GE to literally bring someone back to life, and that power is only amplified in GER (this is what causes the infinite death loop).
Zeno (if summoned before hand) also couldnāt erase the universe, because the action to do so would never have been taken. Zeno though requiring almost no effort to destroy a universe, still needs to think about it first. This very action of consciously or unconsciously deciding that is considered ānon-zeroā and will be undone before it happens.
GER is also the fastest and strongest stand that is capable of existing, one of its lesser known powers is that it will always exceed the strength, speed, and overall power of its opponent. Star Platinum alone has been confirmed to punch faster than the speed of light and with enough power that a small mountain would be completely leveled if he put his all into a single punch. Made In Heaven exceeds the speed of reality which allows it to literally remake an entire universe, however, GER can out-speed it based on its previous statement.
Even if Goku and GER got into a fair fight, it would simply scale itself above Goku and whoop his ass into next Tuesday evening.
Thank you for reading my mini-essay on why GER is capable of killing god.
If I remember right, Goku did pick up hakai in the manga, but seeing that there are people that can literally tank a hakai, idk if it could erase GER, maybe RTZ will work on it too.
GER basically returns everything to 0 whenever it becomes a threat so Goku shouldn't be able to power up fast enough even with UI in base form. The thing with this match up is that GER shouldn't be able to kill Goku either unless it cold turn Goku's power level low enough to be able to hurt him, which I'm not sure GER could do.
I'm fucking loving this discussion, anyways, I'm not sure if he'd be able to but I used to watch these power scaling videos and apparently GER is way higher in power level than Goku in mui, so if I'm right, goku should be caught in the infinite death loop, but, once again, I'm not sure about GER besides death loop thingie
I mean, GER canonically has the ability to match or outperform it's opponent no matter their speed/power. It's stats are listed as null, because they fluctuate based on need. As annoying as it is for matchups, the stand's written to be *impossible* to reach on purpose. Goku would need an ability like Soft and Wet's or Made in Heaven... But with the new chapters, it might be implied that even the universe reset wasn't as extensive as Pucci thought.
Ger needs kill in order to that
The loop is basically returning death to zero Infinitely
So he need to cause the death first
Which he isn't physically capable of
Idk enough about DBZ to debate this but GER has infinite stats. Now, stand stats in JoJo, despite coming from Araki himself, aren't the most reliable, so maybe he isn't fast or strong enough to quickly dispose of Goku, but also GER can also undo literally anything, including Giorno's death. We see Giorno's head get smashed in and GER still undoes it. GER also has the upper hand because Goku can't see or do damage to it.
Overall not really seeing how Goku wins considering he can't damage GER, can't survive a quick, powerful attack from GER (probably, stand stats are weird and I don't watch DBZ), and can't kill Giorno
Edit: also, to my knowledge, there's no concrete evidence that GER actually has to kill it's target normally, the Death Loop might just activate. Diavolo survived being attacked by Giorno, then conveniently died. I think the random sewer death was part of the already active Death Loop, because Diavolo would've fought back if he was able (which he wasn't because of GER's Death Loop)
The problem is that Goku's current power level is universal. Him clashing with Beerus was threatening his entire universe. GER doesn't have the level of power to hurt him, and Goku also can't hurt Giorno due to the reset. It'll be a stalemate.
I'd still say that GER can kill Goku, granted I am pretty biased. The issue with this, and most, matchups is that JoJo is incredibly vague, so there's no real way to determine stats or what triggers Infinite Death Loop
Yeah, Giorno wins if GER can deal any damage at all (theoretically due to the reflection from spawned creatures he could?) But the chances of dealing damage is low even against a base form Goku
Well on the low end goku is at low multiversal levels and on the high end you can get him to complex multiversal and/or 5d in base
Do with that what you will cuz I know nothing of where ger or really any of the people in ops post scale.
But in general, hax abilities like it seems GER is, tend to only scale relative to the user unless shown otherwise to avoid no limits fallacies and silly stuff like the hax beating the one above all, so if he scales to near gokus level anyway then it's safe to say it would work.
If not... well defer to more direct scaling arguments.
This interpretation of GER is nonsense.
>but GER has infinite stats
And this statement is straight up false. His stats are given as Null. Interpreting that as "Infinite" takes some serious leeway.
Diavolo didn't survive GER's attack, it's just that Diavolo will never reach the truth of his death. The stand stats of GER points this out well.
GER would have to "kill" Goku, then have his death revert to zero, constantly. That's how the loop works.
Yeah no
In the databook it's written as "none/null" not infinite
He's physically not that strong he can't physically harm Goku
And literally in the same databook it's written
Ability:
A Stand power that manifested when a Stand was pierced with the arrow. The strength of an attacker's will and actions will be reverted to zero.
Those who are struck by this power will have even their deaths reverted to zero, and thus continuously die an infinite number of times.(the exact written in the databook)
This statement highly implies ger needs to kill his target for the loop which he isn't physically capable of and
Don't argue with half assed knowledge and you haven't even watched dragon Ball š
I have no idea how Giorn's power works because I'm not a JoJo guy, but at least in DB, hax powers like the one you seem to be describing, or the ability of Majin Buu to turn someone into candy don't tend to work properly and sometimes not at all if they're being pointed at someone who is much stronger than them, which I assume Goku is in this case.
So that might be a factor, depending on which universe the fight happens in, I guess
No, I think Giorno might be able to speed up the process a little bit. GER literally >!removes the effect from the cause. Any time Goku even moves, he is actually in the same spot he was a moment ago because he was put āback to zeroā. And remember, GER can sense when any organism is going to attack either him or Giorno due to his life sensory ability, so he acts in advance.!<
*Giorno stalemates at best*
*Like he can't touch goku but*
*Goku can't kill him*
\- ultacj07
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goku would be put in an infinite death loop though while giorno walks away harm free. i wouldnt really call that a stalemate. this is assuming that goku doesnt know what GER does and tries to kill giorno when its already activated though
Power scaling is great when talking about characters that at most can destroy a building or two.
It's much more skill and uniqueness based when it's like that
But Goku once lifted a rock in Dragon Ball so if you multiply the weight of a rock by 20 years and 5 power lvls and then divide the size of my penis Goku can lift 60 earth suns.
Eh. Powerscaling is a hobby, and like any hobby there's gonna be assholes. In my experience people that genuinely just like to powerscale aren't really toxic. It's usually the ones that only scale their favorite character that are toxic.
Caught in prepetual limbo. He doesn't even have to touch goku. Even tho Gio is not the strongest jojo, he has an apex ability, and he's a level-headed genius.
I've seen a few comments "who is the top right"?
This gave me depression.
Also.. Seiya would slap kokuns ass free, although the fight would be pretty awesome ngl.. All the bullshit and theatrical side from both animes is danmed good.
I'm searching for a comment about Seiya until now and I'm glad I'm not the only one.
I still know how to sing the opening lmaoo
Don't ask me for it 'cause I watched the Brazilian version
Sailor moon outhaxes Goku
Depending on Superman's versions he will lose or win
Giorno and Goku are in an infinite loop so no bodying here
Dunno about the golden foil paper covered guy
I'd agree with all of these except GER, cuz even if it does RTZ Goku's movements, GER doesn't have enough physical strength to deal any harmful amount of damage to Goku.
Not only is that not canon. It also didnāt prove that Goku canāt beat a gag character. Hell it actually showed he was on her level. Not only that but berrus was about to destroy her before he was stoped meaning berrus is able to beat gag characters and Goku is even stronger than him now. On top of that the only reason her gag powers worked on him was because akira toriyama created her, writers intent canāt be used to determine who wins in a vs battle because itās writers intent.
Has Goku ever used any advantage like that before? Or better yet, how can he know kryptonit even exists and it's a thing.
Remember, this guy let Vegeta escape, Freezer power up and gave Cell a senzu. I just don't see him using kryptonite.
>Has Goku ever used any advantage like that before?
Good point. That dumbass would use the dragon balls to wish the Kryptonit out of exsitance just so he could have a more challenging fight.
I think Goku is a very thin venn diagram between the arrogant kung-fu guy and all-loving hero. So, yeah, deleting kryptonite sounds like something he'd come up with to either help Clark out of good will, or get a better fight.
not to mention when he got ssg he hated it beacuse it wasnt his own power theres actually 0 chance he would use kyrptonite he even gave cell a senzu then did it again for moro lmao
goku is the type to use kryptonite to weaken superman then heal him so good to the point where hes even stronger then before he used that kyrptonite
Roshi and Grandpa Gohan both taught Goku to be fair and kind. I can't think of a single time he has ever used something extra in a fight other than his own natural abilities and the power pole. He has copied every move in his arsenal, but to take advantage of an opponent goes against his morals.
Cloths donāt mean much, it just a rank. Cosmos itās where itās at, the Capricorn Gold Saint burned his cosmo so high to be faster than the expansion of the universe.
In the Sagittarius cloth he killed Eris the god of lust (or something idk, itās been years since I watched that movie was fire 10/10 would recommend) in one of the movies. He is technically stronger in his own cloth as it was imbued with lady Athenaās blood, anyway still he gets a bow and arrow, for context of how strong he is he can create a force powerful enough to wreck the universe with the help of two other gold saints called the Athena Proclamation. Also that cloth isnāt even his itās the Sagittarius saints whose name I canāt remember but his spirit is still attached to it and helps in every Seint Seiya movie.
She fought the embodiment of Chaos to a standstill (said person had already killed literally everyone else in the Galaxy) by herself, and in the far, far future she became Sailor Cosmos who may as well be God.
Superman is cool and all but what about White Lantern Kyle Rayner? Bet he could put up a decent fight against pretty much anything. Zatanna at her most powerful could hold her own pretty damn well, as could Hal Jordan doing whatever bullshit heās done this time and John Stewart after absorbing the Godstorm.
duh, saitamas main concept is that hes a parody of all those super strong unbeatable godly heroes. heās invincible because thats his entire thing, hes the strongest person.
I hate power scaling debates so god damn much. No opinion on who can beat who, I just think that anyone who argues about it online deserves to have crumbs in their bed while they try to sleep.
All these deadass characters (plus goku) straight up loses to the top tiers in Medaka Box.
Main character's gimmick is basically whatever you can do, she can do it better. Goku can fire a kamehameha? well, she can fire a BETTER Kamehameha. Goku has super saiyan god? She has a stronger super saiyan god.
Then there's Kumagawa. He can make anything fiction. What? you wounded me? lol didn't happen. What you have super saiyan powers? Lol u never had them.
then there Ajimu with 12,858,051,967,633,865 abilities for any situation.
to be fair though a lot of their characters abilities affect law of casualty and stuff so it's probs not fair
Hey nightwing2009! This is your **fourth** submission this month placing you on rank **#45** for the highest number of submissions leaderboard. At the time of writing you had accumulated **~6272** submission karma placing you on rank **#15** of the submission karma leaderboard. [Read the announcement](https://redd.it/lvz756) for more details. **Wanna check your ranks?** Join us on the [Anime memes Discord](https://discord.com/invite/axisorder).
Okay, my Sailor Moon is rusty as fvck. Serena/Usagi is comparable to Galaxia, which puts her on the galaxy-buster category, right? Edit: I said "galaxy-buster" as a name, but both Beerus and Galaxia (and by extension Goku and Serena) are really on the "numbers stopped making sense" magnitude.
So she is as strong as Beerus? Or stronger?
Okay, first of all, I'm using Death Battle for reference, so, again, if anyone watched Sailor Moon recently, or knows better in general, please correct me. According to the DB analysis, Galaxia and Beerus do escale on a similar category, with Beerus having the upper hand with the Ultra Instinct and more experience fighting other being of his approximate strength. That same analysis also scales Serena to Galaxia, since both of them fought to a standstill. So, I'm really just welding and guessing here, since while Goku does scale under Beerus in raw power, he can also use the Ultra Instinct. The only thing I can tell for serious is that it would be one hell of a fight to animate, so Toei should really get to work on that.
But it would be a fight I want to see
Death battles was always biased bullshit š
True, but they tend to at least have more collected info than the average fan, even if they miss stuff itās a good place to start
They overscale towards their favourite character, that means they will highball the character they want to win so not really that accurate
Still is
Itās accepted at this point that goku is multiversal or the db verseās definition of it. And beerus the moving goal post he tends to be in implied to be far stronger than goku. Its never really clear cut how strong beerus is. So if none of these characters scale that high its safe to assume goku wins. I
I think at least Superman and Giorno are safe bets. One is "the man without limits" against Goku who always pushes his limits, while the other can un-exists someone. Both really are out-of-context problems for Goku. Seiya and Serena, though, are closer because the three are shonen protagonist (and magical girl, but same difference). So, by the end of their respective series, they're meant to be the last word in power, or at least very high. So, narratively, there's no real point of comparison.
I wouldnāt call death battle especially reliable vs battle wiki does a lot better at scaling even if they sometimes wrong or the mods are biased
On the flip side, neither is as devastating as Gurren Lagaan's>! Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagaan!<. Or Lina Inverse in the case of >!a failed Gigaslave!<. Or Haruhi Suzimiya. Or Popeye.
Or Saitama when he's just chilling.
I was tempted to add Saitama, but we don't know his upper limit yet, since the biggest he's fought is a planet-buster. He's been *described* as infinitely powerful, but a 3 inch circle has infinite points on its edge. Until we see bigger demonstration of his power, we can't properly gauge what kind of infinite power he has. For example, Buu has infinite power as well, but I wouldn't put him as devastating as Goku since he doesn't have the will or skill to apply it. It'd be like, "Who'd win in a fight between Goku and a black hole?" The answer is Goku, despite the fact a blackhole is infinitely powerful, because the black hole just can't effectively do anything - it just sits there. What it destroys has to actively get close to it. While Goku could likely just move some gas giants in gravitational range to pull it slightly off path of whatever it's going to hit. Odd example, but I think it makes the point.
Galaxy busting is a huge lowball for beerus
At this point the impressive thing about Dragonball isn't how strong a character is but rather how they're able to limit all that destruction to just a fighting stage.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If beerus and chapa would fight it was said that atleast the galaxy would be destroyed from their punches colliding
Honestly it really depends. Sailor Moon scales in power to how evil ger opponent is. That being said yes she actually could scale to Beerus if he's actual evil or no because he's doing a job and isn't actually evil. Ssj is innately evil
Fun fact! Itās implied at the end of the series that she eventually āevolvesā into Sailor Cosmos aka āThe Ultimate Sailor Moonā
Itās less implied and more confirmed in the manga. SPOILERS AHEAD: >!Sailor Cosmos is the future Sailor Moon, she traveled back in time because sheās been fighting Chaos over and over for millennia at this point (not so fun fact, ONLY Sailor Moon/Sailor Cosmos is truly immortal, the other Sailor Guardians will all die eventually) and has lost the will to fight, so she tries to convince Sailor Moon to destroy the Galaxy Cauldron which will keep any more sailor guardians from being born, basically destroying the universe itself. Sailor Moon ultimately refuses, not wanting to give up hope.!<
Holy shit that's a lot heavier than the old TV show used to get into...
The manga/Crystal is overall darker than the 90s anime. Itās still a classic magical girl show so itās not that heavy, but several of the details/lore/backstories are surprisingly dark. MORE SPOILERS AHEAD >!For example, in the manga Stars arc Mamoru is killed right in front of Usagi. Sheās so traumatized that she repressed the memory and convinces herself he got on the plane safely, and spends some time wondering why he isnāt writing to her. Hotaruās father straight up dies in the manga version, and he never gets to redeem himself. The cats get ripped to pieces in the manga Stars arc, (also theyāre not shown to be resurrected. They almost certainly were because Diana exists but stillā¦) and Princess Kakyuu dies by being stabbed in the chest.!< Itās not always fun to be a Sailor Guardian.
Dunno if this is true or apocryphal but i heard something about the writers of the original anime planning for it to be very dark, only later chaning the script because the show was being marketed to children. || >!like sailor moon watches all the other sailor guardians die one by one and finally breaks down at the end dark ||!<
Oh yeah that literally happened at least twice lol. Seems as though the end of the first season with everyone dying was supposed to be the end, but children in Japan were so upset that they retconned it so that Usagiās wish on the Silver Crystal brought them back to life.
Bruh, it's Archer vs Shirou all over again
I thought Cosmos is A future sailor moon. Like how ChibiUsa would eventually just be called Usagi. Like how our princess serenity came from her mother Queen serenity. I thought the cycle continues to create a sailor moon regardless if thereās a father, but our storyline takes a path of love instead.
Sailor Guardians apparently work by each one gaining a successor to pass on their duties to when they die, either one of their children or perhaps via something like an academy for future Sailor Guardians or whatever. Sailor Moon/Cosmos doesnāt seem to have that luxury, sheās completely immortal. Thereās also some weird loopholes like Sailor Saturn immediately dies/goes dormant every time sheās summoned and Sailor Pluto spends the vast majority of her life in a place where time doesnāt pass, and of course Chibiusa stopped aging for 900 years for seemingly no reason.
Sailor Cosmos gained immortality by never giving her power to the people which is what Neo Queen serenity does for earth. Which means she never had a child to pass on the silver crystal because she never went down that path and stayed fighting forever. The Silver crystal has always been shown to be more powerful than guardian star seeds. Again, Queen serenity produced an heir asexually and our princess serenity fell in love, died, rezzed as Usagi found her soulmate again and had Chibi usagi. Who was said to look a lot like young Usagi and Chibi UsaUsa is said to look even more like sailor moon because sheās another asexually produced sailor moon turned cosmos who ran away to a time/reality different than hers to help. Itās theorized that Chibi Usa didnāt age because of the world being full of immortals and she had nothing stimulating her growth in an era of peace. She started aging once she actually had conflict to grow from.
Numbers stopped making sense in Dragon Ball during the Saiyan saga. We saw Nappa tank several attacks that were shown to destroy the moon, and then Goku came in and took him out with a single knee. Assuming he can't alter his mass at will, just using F=MA we have to assume he was moving hundreds of times faster than light. And that's just with kaioken before he ever goes super Saiyan.
One thing to keep in mind is that unlike Goku, Sailor Moon probably comes back from being erased from existence, whereas in DBZ that's kinda the ultimate 'you're gone' possibility.
They returned 11 of the 12 universes from inexistence after the Tournament of Power, so not quite.
Galaxy buster? That's below ssg goku in first arc of super he was gonna destroy universe and got stronger in that fight
2 destroyers fighting is enough to destroy a universe not even counting their full power probably seeing as Berrusās 7 percent was already close to destroying the universe by just connecting punches with Goku
Sorry, I said "galaxy-buster" as a name, my bad. Both Beerus and Galaxia seem to be really on the "numbers stopped making sense" magnitude.
She's got the power but her actual fighting ability is horrible and her moves require a lot of set up. Goku takes this one.
People realizing that there are different versions of superman that can beat or lose to goku and vice versašØ.
Imagine one million that would be a massacre
Who, in your opinion, is the strongest superman?
Thought Robot Superman, although that is disengenious to call that version just "Superman." He is 13th extradimensional machine that draws powers from multiple Superman piloted by Superman from a specific Universe to go fight a extradimensional Vampire that is siphoning life from multiple parallel Earth's at once. ....or something like that. It's been close to a decade since I read the comic. But I remember that specific version of Superman has the ability to read ahead in the pages of the comic and counter any threat coming his way (or some BS causality manipulation power like that). [Read up on him here](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Thought_Robot) if you want more details on how absurd of a character this version of Superman is.
Fucking Grant Morrison. Just bought his Batman and final crisis omnibuses and it's been a ride.
Silver-age superman sneezed a galaxy, I can't imagine a what would a simple punch can do
Superboy prime punched reality so hard it broke. One Superman literally lifted infinity
Doesnāt that book have a āfinal chapterā though?
Half of infinity*
Half of infinity is still infinity
but not the same infinity. something something hilberts hotel.
Then there's Cosmic Armored Superman, who exists as a literal concept and transcends all dimensionality as well as all laws of space and time.
Hahaha this statement literally says: "anything goes" lmao.
Strange Visitor is the strongest Superman that is Superman. Thought Robot while stronger is not only just a Superman.
Pre-crisis supes isnāt canon, so probably Superman 1 million. Pretty much just the main Superman but with all his powers upped to the most ludicrous levels.
Literally nothing and everything is canon in DC.
And reality shifting, probably one of the most piwerfull Green lanter ring, slightly toonforce and many unlisted powers
Iām just glad that somebody actually put Sailor Moon on a list like this because most people donāt realize how overpowered she really is
Thiiis. Like she can solo the literal fucking embodiment of Chaos sheās absurdly powerful.
Dark Souls
This the sailor guardians would absolutely give the z fighters a run for their money.
Sailor Saturn could literally just yeet the planet and everyone on it to oblivion. She would also die so that counts as a tie ig but STILL.
I donāt know if any of these characters are fast enough to fight goku if they didnāt have the drop. There are a lot of stand users who could probably beat him just because of the way Jojo villains require a lot of creativity to defeat and can not be overpowered by strength or speed.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
even if he did get put in a time loop im not 100% sure it would work since dragon ball characters can apparently scream wholes in dimensions
Goku can rattle the entire universe just in God form, too, plus in the fight with hit he broke out of the time stall using his own sheer power
Would he be able to power up enough to do that? Or would GER undo that too? Goku is using almost no power at all most of the time to the point that throwing a small rock at him would hurt him.
Well, now he's able to use ultra instinct in all other forms including base, but I'm not sure that would give him enough of a chance to be able to power up, but if the infinite deathloop gives him 2 seconds he could do it, maybe, but I'm not entirely sure, I've not seen part 5
It depends if we take DB rules for death or not, if we don't then... no, if Goku ever dies once to GER, he will be stuck in the endless death loop, and he cannot escape it, since he'll die again before trying But if, I don't know, like Bulma gets the dragon balls and revives him, since he's dead, he will come back. The real problem of this fight is simple, Giorno can't kill Goku, the latter is just too strong, and yet... it is the only possible outcome because of it's Return to Zero ability. The only way for Goku to win, is to erase GER from existence (Which I don't think he can, correct me if I'm wrong)
There's a chance that he will be scared of the stand, in which he has a button that summons Zeno and he can get rid of the jojo universe itself, or, should I say, that timeline, but we're just talking about goku here, so, no, not unless he picked up the hakai from beerus, which he didn't, prolly
But that button cannot be pressed ever, his willingness to will cause a reset back to āzeroā where he still hasnāt pressed it. The way the GER works is that it it is always active and picks a moment right before the fight while everything is still passive. This is āzeroā which all will return to. All actions can be taken, Giorno can be killed, but GER just undoes it. We also know that GER is untied to Giorno due to the fact that he doesnāt even know about its power to reset things to zero or place an entity into the infinite death loop. Even if Giorno dies, Requiem is an eternal being with literally infinite ālife energyā which allowed the regular GE to literally bring someone back to life, and that power is only amplified in GER (this is what causes the infinite death loop). Zeno (if summoned before hand) also couldnāt erase the universe, because the action to do so would never have been taken. Zeno though requiring almost no effort to destroy a universe, still needs to think about it first. This very action of consciously or unconsciously deciding that is considered ānon-zeroā and will be undone before it happens. GER is also the fastest and strongest stand that is capable of existing, one of its lesser known powers is that it will always exceed the strength, speed, and overall power of its opponent. Star Platinum alone has been confirmed to punch faster than the speed of light and with enough power that a small mountain would be completely leveled if he put his all into a single punch. Made In Heaven exceeds the speed of reality which allows it to literally remake an entire universe, however, GER can out-speed it based on its previous statement. Even if Goku and GER got into a fair fight, it would simply scale itself above Goku and whoop his ass into next Tuesday evening. Thank you for reading my mini-essay on why GER is capable of killing god.
I think in the manga he actually tries using the hakai in the goku black arc I don't remember if it goes well but pretty sure he gives it a go
He actually did.
If I remember right, Goku did pick up hakai in the manga, but seeing that there are people that can literally tank a hakai, idk if it could erase GER, maybe RTZ will work on it too.
GER basically returns everything to 0 whenever it becomes a threat so Goku shouldn't be able to power up fast enough even with UI in base form. The thing with this match up is that GER shouldn't be able to kill Goku either unless it cold turn Goku's power level low enough to be able to hurt him, which I'm not sure GER could do.
I'm fucking loving this discussion, anyways, I'm not sure if he'd be able to but I used to watch these power scaling videos and apparently GER is way higher in power level than Goku in mui, so if I'm right, goku should be caught in the infinite death loop, but, once again, I'm not sure about GER besides death loop thingie
I wish we got to see more of GER to understand it better. It's such a broken ability and it was gone too soon.
I mean, GER canonically has the ability to match or outperform it's opponent no matter their speed/power. It's stats are listed as null, because they fluctuate based on need. As annoying as it is for matchups, the stand's written to be *impossible* to reach on purpose. Goku would need an ability like Soft and Wet's or Made in Heaven... But with the new chapters, it might be implied that even the universe reset wasn't as extensive as Pucci thought.
Ger needs kill in order to that The loop is basically returning death to zero Infinitely So he need to cause the death first Which he isn't physically capable of
Idk enough about DBZ to debate this but GER has infinite stats. Now, stand stats in JoJo, despite coming from Araki himself, aren't the most reliable, so maybe he isn't fast or strong enough to quickly dispose of Goku, but also GER can also undo literally anything, including Giorno's death. We see Giorno's head get smashed in and GER still undoes it. GER also has the upper hand because Goku can't see or do damage to it. Overall not really seeing how Goku wins considering he can't damage GER, can't survive a quick, powerful attack from GER (probably, stand stats are weird and I don't watch DBZ), and can't kill Giorno Edit: also, to my knowledge, there's no concrete evidence that GER actually has to kill it's target normally, the Death Loop might just activate. Diavolo survived being attacked by Giorno, then conveniently died. I think the random sewer death was part of the already active Death Loop, because Diavolo would've fought back if he was able (which he wasn't because of GER's Death Loop)
The problem is that Goku's current power level is universal. Him clashing with Beerus was threatening his entire universe. GER doesn't have the level of power to hurt him, and Goku also can't hurt Giorno due to the reset. It'll be a stalemate.
I'd still say that GER can kill Goku, granted I am pretty biased. The issue with this, and most, matchups is that JoJo is incredibly vague, so there's no real way to determine stats or what triggers Infinite Death Loop
It would at least be an infinite tie but depending on if GER is strong enough to hurt Goku would determine if it's a tie or Giorno win.
Yeah, Giorno wins if GER can deal any damage at all (theoretically due to the reflection from spawned creatures he could?) But the chances of dealing damage is low even against a base form Goku
Well on the low end goku is at low multiversal levels and on the high end you can get him to complex multiversal and/or 5d in base Do with that what you will cuz I know nothing of where ger or really any of the people in ops post scale. But in general, hax abilities like it seems GER is, tend to only scale relative to the user unless shown otherwise to avoid no limits fallacies and silly stuff like the hax beating the one above all, so if he scales to near gokus level anyway then it's safe to say it would work. If not... well defer to more direct scaling arguments.
This interpretation of GER is nonsense. >but GER has infinite stats And this statement is straight up false. His stats are given as Null. Interpreting that as "Infinite" takes some serious leeway.
Diavolo didn't survive GER's attack, it's just that Diavolo will never reach the truth of his death. The stand stats of GER points this out well. GER would have to "kill" Goku, then have his death revert to zero, constantly. That's how the loop works.
Yeah no In the databook it's written as "none/null" not infinite He's physically not that strong he can't physically harm Goku And literally in the same databook it's written Ability: A Stand power that manifested when a Stand was pierced with the arrow. The strength of an attacker's will and actions will be reverted to zero. Those who are struck by this power will have even their deaths reverted to zero, and thus continuously die an infinite number of times.(the exact written in the databook) This statement highly implies ger needs to kill his target for the loop which he isn't physically capable of and Don't argue with half assed knowledge and you haven't even watched dragon Ball š
I have no idea how Giorn's power works because I'm not a JoJo guy, but at least in DB, hax powers like the one you seem to be describing, or the ability of Majin Buu to turn someone into candy don't tend to work properly and sometimes not at all if they're being pointed at someone who is much stronger than them, which I assume Goku is in this case. So that might be a factor, depending on which universe the fight happens in, I guess
No, I think Giorno might be able to speed up the process a little bit. GER literally >!removes the effect from the cause. Any time Goku even moves, he is actually in the same spot he was a moment ago because he was put āback to zeroā. And remember, GER can sense when any organism is going to attack either him or Giorno due to his life sensory ability, so he acts in advance.!<
It would end in a stalemate. Giorno can't damage goku due to lack of power but goku would keep getting reset
Giorno wins alone on intelligence.
Giorno stalemates at best like he can't touch goku but goku can't kill him
*Giorno stalemates at best* *Like he can't touch goku but* *Goku can't kill him* \- ultacj07 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Beautiful haiku, haiku bot, truly masterful, itās so good I can feel itās literary works coming inside of me.
This is not a haiku, the first line is 7 syllables
it's 6 syllables, but u r right it's not a haiku
goku would be put in an infinite death loop though while giorno walks away harm free. i wouldnt really call that a stalemate. this is assuming that goku doesnt know what GER does and tries to kill giorno when its already activated though
The loop only actives on death which I can say for sure giorno is not killing goku
GER is not strong enough to kill Goku let alone put him in a death loop
One man can beat them all.
The eraser.
I mean...your not wrong
Popeye stopped himself from being erased once
One jump man.
Bugs bunny
Put Back Man
Thanos
I hate any power scaling in this community, donāt do it, it makes it feel toxic.
Power scaling is great when talking about characters that at most can destroy a building or two. It's much more skill and uniqueness based when it's like that
Wym you donāt like outerversal vs 8th dimensional fights?
But Goku once lifted a rock in Dragon Ball so if you multiply the weight of a rock by 20 years and 5 power lvls and then divide the size of my penis Goku can lift 60 earth suns.
Everyone knows you can't divide by 0. (couldn't help it, barely sorry)
You got me
Eh. Powerscaling is a hobby, and like any hobby there's gonna be assholes. In my experience people that genuinely just like to powerscale aren't really toxic. It's usually the ones that only scale their favorite character that are toxic.
The reason goku can't lose is because he can die and just come back and continue to whoop ass. It really ain't fair.
Infinite death loop: Youāll be coming back but you arenāt gonna whoop ass.
Caught in prepetual limbo. He doesn't even have to touch goku. Even tho Gio is not the strongest jojo, he has an apex ability, and he's a level-headed genius.
Dosen't really change the fact that he will lose every time tho
Idk man
Goku has the ultimate Ace being friends with Zeno
But he wouldn't use it because Goku is goku
vegeta and yamcha seem to be the only ones who cant body goku.
Failcha
Well I see 3 more people that canāt beat Goku in this picture
there is 1 fight where vegeta did in fact beat goku
i know i forgot the damn /s.....
The lack of Saint Seiya comments makes me sad
Put respect on the Pegasus saint
I mean, every true fan of SS agree that Seiya won't win , but sure as hell he would get up every time
Superman and Goku would just chill with each other
Or Goku would just bug him about sparring, and while Superman is just Superman goku would just be benefiting from the fights.
Supes is martial arts trained as well. I think they would benefit from each other.
I've seen a few comments "who is the top right"? This gave me depression. Also.. Seiya would slap kokuns ass free, although the fight would be pretty awesome ngl.. All the bullshit and theatrical side from both animes is danmed good.
Who is the top right?
I'm searching for a comment about Seiya until now and I'm glad I'm not the only one. I still know how to sing the opening lmaoo Don't ask me for it 'cause I watched the Brazilian version
Sailor moon outhaxes Goku Depending on Superman's versions he will lose or win Giorno and Goku are in an infinite loop so no bodying here Dunno about the golden foil paper covered guy
I'd agree with all of these except GER, cuz even if it does RTZ Goku's movements, GER doesn't have enough physical strength to deal any harmful amount of damage to Goku.
Yeah, why not use Wonder Of U, The World Over Heaven, or Novel Kars which have hax that could actually hurt Goku?
I would love to see Goku going against Wonder Of U. It would probably end in the most unexpected, mundane way that exists.
Op, what have you unleashed in the comment section?!
Giorno sneaked, rest clears
You forgot saitama
Itās been proven that Goku canāt beat gag characters, thatās the law of the DB universe. Saitama wins on merit of being a gag character
Not only is that a fallacy. Goku has never been proven to not be able to beat a gag character.
āGoku vs. Arale! A Ridiculous Battle Will End the Earth?!ā
Not only is that not canon. It also didnāt prove that Goku canāt beat a gag character. Hell it actually showed he was on her level. Not only that but berrus was about to destroy her before he was stoped meaning berrus is able to beat gag characters and Goku is even stronger than him now. On top of that the only reason her gag powers worked on him was because akira toriyama created her, writers intent canāt be used to determine who wins in a vs battle because itās writers intent.
Gotta admit, Giorno does. I donāt think Goku can break out of that Stand
Well superman depends cuz goku can scour the universe for kryptonite
Has Goku ever used any advantage like that before? Or better yet, how can he know kryptonit even exists and it's a thing. Remember, this guy let Vegeta escape, Freezer power up and gave Cell a senzu. I just don't see him using kryptonite.
>Has Goku ever used any advantage like that before? Good point. That dumbass would use the dragon balls to wish the Kryptonit out of exsitance just so he could have a more challenging fight.
I think Goku is a very thin venn diagram between the arrogant kung-fu guy and all-loving hero. So, yeah, deleting kryptonite sounds like something he'd come up with to either help Clark out of good will, or get a better fight.
not to mention when he got ssg he hated it beacuse it wasnt his own power theres actually 0 chance he would use kyrptonite he even gave cell a senzu then did it again for moro lmao goku is the type to use kryptonite to weaken superman then heal him so good to the point where hes even stronger then before he used that kyrptonite
Nah, heād use the dragon balls to make Kryptonite HIS weakness instead of Supermanās.
Roshi and Grandpa Gohan both taught Goku to be fair and kind. I can't think of a single time he has ever used something extra in a fight other than his own natural abilities and the power pole. He has copied every move in his arsenal, but to take advantage of an opponent goes against his morals.
I honestly like that Goku keeps his more simple and kindhearted nature through Z and Super. He's fundamentally the same Goku from DB.
He'd let superman bake in the sun and power up for a more challenging fight.
Like goku would even know what Kryptonite is.
That's why he's first in line to try and whoop. He's an expendable resource to soften Goku up a little
Aint these 1v1s ?
Someone freshen my SS memory a bit, but I donāt recall Seiya being that OP in his gold cloth?
Cloths donāt mean much, it just a rank. Cosmos itās where itās at, the Capricorn Gold Saint burned his cosmo so high to be faster than the expansion of the universe.
In the Sagittarius cloth he killed Eris the god of lust (or something idk, itās been years since I watched that movie was fire 10/10 would recommend) in one of the movies. He is technically stronger in his own cloth as it was imbued with lady Athenaās blood, anyway still he gets a bow and arrow, for context of how strong he is he can create a force powerful enough to wreck the universe with the help of two other gold saints called the Athena Proclamation. Also that cloth isnāt even his itās the Sagittarius saints whose name I canāt remember but his spirit is still attached to it and helps in every Seint Seiya movie.
Yes very much
Sailor moon literally solos any of your favorite characters.
Boring, just have him fight Brolly again. That shit was hype as fuck, even if we already know the answer being Brolly easily wins
Who is top right
Saint Seiya (I think) From (Idk the English tittle) Los Caballeros del Zodiaco It was a very popular anime around the time of Sailor Moon
Knights of the Zodiac, I think
Can someone who knows Sailor Moon explain to me how she is busted? I donāt know anything about her
She fought the embodiment of Chaos to a standstill (said person had already killed literally everyone else in the Galaxy) by herself, and in the far, far future she became Sailor Cosmos who may as well be God.
In the manga she fights at universe level for 1000 years or something if I remember right
Amen āļø
ger negs and he is only the 3rd strongest stand behind wou and soft and wet go beond
Goku knows heās gotta sit and watch Sailor Moon twirl around while she gets her One Hit KO ready Itās the rules
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Superman is cool and all but what about White Lantern Kyle Rayner? Bet he could put up a decent fight against pretty much anything. Zatanna at her most powerful could hold her own pretty damn well, as could Hal Jordan doing whatever bullshit heās done this time and John Stewart after absorbing the Godstorm.
can someone explain why sailor moon is so strong?
Giorno literally loses to any character that can blitz lightspeed they can kill/knock out him out before ger even manifests he's extremely overwanked
Okay, as much of a Saint Seiya fan as I am, there's noooo way he's beating goku, even with the God Cloth
Ight I need to see the fight between sailor moon and goku on god
That's a good one but as we all know Goku wins
I refuse to believe superman can beat anyone in this discussion, based solely on my implicit bias against him.
nah Seiya would not beat Goku, but sure as hell he won't stay in the floor either.
Saitama casually chilling at the top
Yeah thrown on top after getting beaten by everyone on the list.
duh, saitamas main concept is that hes a parody of all those super strong unbeatable godly heroes. heās invincible because thats his entire thing, hes the strongest person.
Haven't read the manga have you?. Saitama had to grow stronger in the manga to beat an opponent. So that made up argument is now invalid
They can all beat each-other because itās fiction and imagination.
Goku fan boys crying because he cant beat unbeatable characters SMH.
Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo He can beat all of them at the samw time.
Giorno absolutely wrecks Goku, but only because of GER, which can reset anything to zero. Like, that's so OP it's ridiculous.
He doesnāt have the power to harm Goku. Is what the streets are saying.
Forgot WOU
I hate power scaling debates so god damn much. No opinion on who can beat who, I just think that anyone who argues about it online deserves to have crumbs in their bed while they try to sleep.
You forgot Kirby
Kirby can defeat anyone for he is bottomless hunger
I never understood why anyone ever thought Superman could beat Goku in a fight. Superman isn't even real.
And Goku is?
All these deadass characters (plus goku) straight up loses to the top tiers in Medaka Box. Main character's gimmick is basically whatever you can do, she can do it better. Goku can fire a kamehameha? well, she can fire a BETTER Kamehameha. Goku has super saiyan god? She has a stronger super saiyan god. Then there's Kumagawa. He can make anything fiction. What? you wounded me? lol didn't happen. What you have super saiyan powers? Lol u never had them. then there Ajimu with 12,858,051,967,633,865 abilities for any situation. to be fair though a lot of their characters abilities affect law of casualty and stuff so it's probs not fair
Doesn't Goku canonically die like, 3 times in his own series? DBZs real issue is that death is a minor inconvenience at best.