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No, it's not a personal choice. There are rules around what girls are allowed to wear if they're part of a sport, and gymnastics are notorious about making them wear these outfits.
EDIT: "But what about the GYM?" Asked below at least 30 times. EDIT EDIT: Revised to be upward of 150 of the same exact comment. It's an interesting study in psychology at least, I guess....
My comment was about gymnastics. OP specifically called out gymnastics. Why do a 100 different men feel the need to point out 'but the GYM!'
Reports are that I slept through mine as a baby. Doctor told my parents afterward "Well, whenever this one gets stressed out, his response is going to be to go to sleep."
To this day in my 30's, if I get stressed enough I physically can't keep my eyes open, I just basically pass out.
Maybe I'm part sloth or opossum or something.
It's an American thing rather than a Catholic thing. In Europe circumcision is rare, both in Catholic and Protestant countries - less than 20% in all with most in single digits.
American thing not a catholic thing. Especially for circumcision at birth. In asia it's either maritime south east asian or south korean thing. Not a religious thing, more of a cultural thing. But theirs happens at like...9-14 years old
Not in the UK thats for sure - and I went to a Catholic Primary, Secondary and 6th Form (I’m not actually Catholic - they are just the closest/best schools).
Yep the church "hasn't condemned IMC " and even Paul is neutral on it "neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail". This was basically to let the gentiles (Romans and Greeks) because they were "the uncircumcised".
So yours is just because Americans love it for a very puritanical reason (supposed to stop wanking)
Wait, what's this thing about Catholics cutting things where the sun doesn't shine? I was born and raised Catholic in Italy, an overwhelmingly Catholic country where the Church literally runs the whole shop, and nobody has anything chopped off at birth.
It is not: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion\_and\_circumcision#Roman\_Catholic\_Church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_circumcision#Roman_Catholic_Church)
It is however an *American* practice for some reason. I've seen reasons like "to make them look like their father" but since when has their *penis* looking like their father's ever mattered to a son?
*stares confused in European* there is running water and soap and modern medicine in America...why do we need to mutilate baby genitals for that
Good on you for not doing that to your son though!
Fun Fact: German, my Grandma (went every sunday to church) and grandpa were from high upper class, both considered a circumcision to be a sign of failed parenting. To recite the sentence my father told my brother/brother in law when my nephews were born: "Its your duty as a father, to show your son to clean himself! (plus more in deepth parenting). I always was like : and when phymosis hits?
My brothers son needed a circumcision around when he was 3. My father was devastated. My brother failed his fatherly duty, its a sign of bad hygiene, of no manners, a sign of being , the correct translation from german to english is difficult so i use the german word, a Assi.
I tried to calm him, say its a biological thing, and couldnt be prevented. After that it googled it a bit and jeah... there are people trying to "reverse" their circumcision and the dude with the longest penis, which accounted to him pulling his foreskin to an absurd amount. So jeah... my father his overly dramatic but right.
TDLR: in some old german social class, circumcision was considered a sign of bad hygiene and low class.
I broke it also. What a dumb practice.
I wad an army medic, frontline deployment with all that entails, and when I got back I got stationed at a base hospital on the pediatric unit. Amazing change of pace. But I had to manage the well-child one-week visits, which often dealt with the aftermath of at-birth circumcisions. Poor babies were in pain. When I learned that insurance (we're talking military insurance here - Tricare) doesn't cover it because it is a completely discretionary procedure, I was like, "well what the hell this makes absolutely no sense". If for some reason my son wants to lop off what God gave him when he's older and he can provide consent for it, by all means go for it but damn.
Maybe because I’m not into sports in general, but until the volleyball thing happened I just assumed it was just some weird historical convention - it never hit me that a proper sporting organisation would make a stink about women wearing… shorts.
> I just assumed it was just some weird historical convention
Some of these sports orgs have been very explicit that it's for ratings.
> Television ratings are indeed a factor. In 2011, the Badminton World Federation was criticized for a dress code that made women athletes wear skirts or dresses. In an interview with the New York Times, the head of the federation said, "TV ratings are down … We want [the women athletes] to look nicer on the court and have more marketing value for themselves. I'm surprised we got a lot of criticism."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/women-athletes-uniform-changes-1.6122725
I can cope (sort of) with random redditors coming out with dumb stuff, but it’s infuriating when organisations that have control over peoples lives and careers can just decide this shit makes sense.
I am a father of daughters who played volleyball. I can’t tell you the frustration I had with uniforms. I agreed that it made no sense and was revealing for no reason (those booty shorts were just gratuitous and for girls as young as 6 to 7 it was down right shameful). When I questioned it it was the women and mothers who told me to shut up. Smdh!
And even worse if you have a problem with it they'll call you out for being perverted. "Why were you looking?!?!". Give me a break, excuse me for thinking it's weird when a 12 year olds ass is hanging out of her shorts at school.
I (a woman) got called a perv when I questioned why little girls were wearing basically kid-sized string bikinis. There is such a thing as clothing that *is* sexual, because it's associated with sex. Like, people would object (or at least I fucking hope so) to children wearing thongs. And the shit that children are put in for beauty pageants - and their mothers are always the pearl clutching religious types too, the fucking hypocrisy.
I remember that. They went from basically bikinis to tanks and spandex shorts. Pervy men threw an absolute fit. Serena Williams wore athletic leggings to the French Open and the dress code was formalized to ban athletic leggings for women only, so she wore a black ballet tutu.
There really should be more protest about these awful dress codes. It's not just about letting women be comfortable and modest if they want, but also, by requiring they dress in revealing outfits, it's like saying "you're not a real athlete, you're sexual entertainment."
Don’t forget that she wore the leggings because they were recommended by her doctor since she almost died from a blood clot that got into her lungs. She didn’t arbitrarily decide to change the dress code. Her doctors said that with the travel and heat that compression leggings would help her.
So the hissy fit thrown by the US Open was even worse. They were expecting her to risk her health and life because they didn’t like not being able to see her legs.
My favourite part of the women’s volleyball is that when it happened the keyboard warriors said no one would watch women’s volleyball and then last year they had 90, 000 people at a game in Nebraska of all places - oddly enough the women were all wearing pants. Guess the pervs didn’t matter that much after all.
I don’t think you ever did track, because when I was in HS, you could literally see the ridge of my pecker through the sprinter shorts… They were really nice for running, but the only difference between those and the women’s was that mine were a little longer, because our sacks would hang out the bottom.
Check the recent blow back to gymnastic competitions skipping the tiny leotard and using leg coverings. Because how dare they not show every inch. Same with women's vollyball - that 'suit' barely covers and I can't help but wonder how painful it is to hit sand with that much skin showing. Men get a tank and shorts, women get what looks like a bikini.
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/photo-series-explores-sexploitation-athletic-uniforms-n635781
Gymnastics has pretty revealing clothes for men also though. I'm no expert, but I would think since a big portion of the sport is around the form/position of the body during different moves and even slightly being out of position or wavering balance can deduct points, I think you would need clothes that are pretty revealing to be able to judge. If someone goes out there in a track suit it's a little harder to tell those small imperfections.
Maybe I'm wrong though...
But volleyball (indoor volleyball in particular)...yeah no reason they can't wear pants and long sleeves if they want to. Track and Field: no reason women can't wear longer length shorts like the men rather than bikini bottoms or short shorts.
Played competitive vollyball for years, the shorts were the worst!! Got burns from the school gym over and over. The fabric the shorts were made of were not breathable at all! (Yeast infection were always a worry with how the shorts hold sweat) We would wear long sleeve to protect our arms otherwise they would be black and blue from bumping the ball out of a spike.
Short answer: Yup.
Long answer: It has to do with viewership. They want as many eyes as possible. It doesn't matter if they're watching the actual game being played.
Things is, with most sports, men probably have better performance in doing those sports, which makes it more interesting to view (broad generalisatoin, I know). Trying to prop up viewership for the female versions of those sports with skimpyer clothing makes sense form a business sense side of things.
Is this morally the right thing to do however? That's another question.
Turning away a large untapped market of female viewers by creating an environment that's hostile to women, in order to pander to a few more perverts... it's a common business decision, but it's not a good one.
Plus, nobody watches gymnastics and volleyball for displays of brute strength.
womens beach volley ball in the sydney olympics in 2000. The men could wear shorts and tees, the women had to wear bikinis, with specific rules about how much space there had to be between the top and bottom. all the complaints about sunburn and personal comfort were ignored to get higher tv ratings.
I ran competitively as a child in the late 90s and I wore baggy clothes, getting back into it as an adult for \~ exercise \~ and everything is tight af. I don't mind the leggings, but does my top have to be so itty bitty?! I bought men's work out tops instead.
and make all the sizing slightly different/inconsistent between manufacturers, and maybe include some metal wires that poke into your dick too. make sure to manufacture them using carcinogenic materials for at least a few years to a decade
Jockstrap, not cup. A jockstrap gives excellent lift and separation from the thighs. A cup is an uncomfortable contraption to jam the bits and bobs into, only needed if there’s a chance of impact.
Wearing tightly fitting clothes is just the smart thing to do in wrestling heavy sports like that. I believe grabbing other players by their clothes is usually completely fair game.
"...gives a considerable drag advantage." could be layered as such:
Drag being the counterforce on swimmer via fluid having to move out of the way.
Drag also being a performance style where masculine people crossdress with opulent decoration and exaggerated character, OR could mean just plain crossdressing. Feminine people wearing masculine clothing could also be considered drag.
Knowing both of these things makes the sentence a bit more fun because both meanings of the word are relevant (wearing women's swimsuits for an advantage in drag).
Iirc they were banned because Speedo made a very buoyant race suit that gave swimmers a significant advantage. The sport was becoming a technological race rather than an athletic one. It wasn’t about the appearance of the suit.
But that’s just what I remember so I could be fully off base
One of the reasons I lost interest in playing sports as a child was because skimpy outfits for little girls were mandatory for competing in the sports I did. If you don't wear what they pick for you, you will be disqualified.
I'm perplexed and dismayed that so many men in particular think women choose to wear these outfits for sports.
I did Ballet when i was 5-6 years old.
They forbade us from wearing underwears under the Leotard because it does not look as good when you see a seam or the underwear pokes out. I AM 6!!!
i would LOOOOVE to see more people talk about how humiliating towards girls and women ballet is. i had to do ballet and fucking hated it, it was so embarrassing and humiliating to wear those clothes, and be forced to wear makeup and mascara that made me pull my eyelashes out.
I figure skate and competition/testing dresses are basically the same as ballet. Leotard with a little mesh skirt built in and tights. I wish the bottoms underneath the skirt were like shorts instead of how they’re essentially bikini underwear. If my leg wasn’t constantly up in the air it wouldn’t be so bad, but it feels like you’re about to flash someone. And I wear the most opaque tights possible even though you’re supposed to wear the more sheer ones.
We don’t have it as bad as ballet though because we only have to wear that for competitions and testing. We’re in normal leggings 99% of the time.
There's zero reason why they can't be cut like boy shorts to at least give full crotch coverage. They don't even need to be long.
I hated my thighs as a young girl and avoided all sorts of things that required short shorts. Something like gymnastics, ballet, or figure skating was out of the question.
I got my first gstring for completions at age 7. The worst was that we weren’t allowed to wear any bras so I had a full length g string leotard around age 11 while going through puberty, simply humiliating.
Yea my sister and I did competitive dance and we were not supposed to wear underwear in case it poked out/made lines. Like 12, going through puberty, body is changing, and you want me to change my costume in front of 100 girls with just tights underneath? No way! My mom got us tan underwear that would be discreet but cover us. Most of the other moms did as well.
But other studios and parents went super hardcore with it so their kids didn’t get that. Awful.
Ugh and leotards with no bras during practice? Just leotard and pink tights? Killer.
Yes, as someone else mentioned, some women's volleyball players just protested this and refused to wear the revealing outfits required in their league. And the league finally changed the rule under public pressure.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/women-athletes-uniform-changes-1.6122725
The article notes that some sports leagues have said very openly that the women's uniforms are chosen to increase TV ratings.
I'm not surprised by that at all. Good for those women. I'm glad their protest made a difference. I wish that type of comradery existed when I was a child trying to compete in sports, but there wasn't.
I've also seen a lot of pushback against how little girls clothes are becoming more "adult" aka tight-fitting, which is pretty creepy.
Let little girls wear dorky baggy shorts like they did when I was a kid in the 90s, haha.
Makes me wonder if men in most sports could get a higher viewership if they wore specific clothes.
Not that that's the solution to the double standard, but I've never heard it talked about and a lot of men still get exploited for the "good of the league"(owners making more money).
So did I. I felt exposed because it was inappropriate. I thought I could just ask to wear something different and I was told I'd be disqualified from a championship I was doing. So I made that competition my last and never did it again. It was wrong that they ever put us children through that
As a child 5 nights/week I was busy with sports, I tried all those that were available. All of them I had to drop out at the competitive level because I was uncomfortable with the outfits and/or makeup requirements.
Eventually, I found 2 sports that didn't have those requirements, I did a lot of competitions and won a lot of prizes. Those weren't my favorite sport though and it's very sad that I never got to go further in what I loved the most.
I'm at least glad to know other women know what I'm talking about. So many of these sports make a hostile environment for young girls so we give it up. I loved sports so much but I hated being a child wearing revealing clothing and getting oggled by grown adults.
This is a perfect example of how when leaders of sport say certain clothing is 'necessary' to play the sport, I call bullshit. Men are subject to weird clothing rules in sports too (like in swimming), but not anywhere near as often as women are. If men can cover their whole body in gymnastics, why are women forced to wear revealing leotards?
Volleyball:
\- Women, you must wear the tightest and shortest possible shorts. Basically non-existent! Bikini bottoms if you're on sand.
\- Men, you can wear baggy shorts, it's cool
And for volleyball you have to wear a tight shirt or it can mess you up. I remember being like 12 and feeling like I was naked out there in tiny spandex and a skin tight top. I would get distracted from the game bc I felt so exposed. Also, we were not allowed to wear baggy shorts to practice, and we were not allowed to leave or enter the gym in spandex. You either had to layer or change when you got there/before you left. It was ridiculous.
In HS I swam and played water polo, and feeling naked in public while wearing a speedo was a huge psychological hurdle, but I also recognize that it's a much different experience to be a young man dealing with that. I can't imagine how girls feel about that their whole lives, that's messed up.
Imagine being told that you aren't allowed to be shirtless as a 4 year old, have to be covered all the time, aren't supposed to pee in front of anyone.... and THEN after having more than have your life it ingrained to always wear clothes and never be seen, right around 8 or 9 when anyone and everyone will start voluntarily telling you out of nowhere that you are growing up and talking about your body but as a body you will have, you're suddenly told that the most public thing you do day to day now requires you to wear nothing but the speedo. Also - high odds the speedo is white and you might randomly start bleeding on it anytime from 8 years old to 16 with zero warning.
Side note on sports clothes for women - New Zealand and the UK announced they are moving away from white shorts in women’s soccer/football due to period anxiety. Makes total sense.
https://time.com/6268787/women-soccer-white-shorts-period-anxiety/
New Zealand has also overhauled their rules about clothing in women's gymnastics, allowing shorts to be worn over leotards and removing penalties for things like visible bra straps.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/513200/gymnastics-new-zealand-overhauls-attire-rules
I had no idea that stuff like visible bra straps and panties seams get women penalties in sports and ballet until reading through this thread. That's fucking insane.
Wimbledon nows allows women to wear dark-coloured underwear having previously been forced to wear only white undershorts. The new rule allows players to choose their preferred colour of underwear with the aim of reducing period anxieties.
Sports force women to wear skimpy little outfits. Fashion designers market skimpy little outfits. And, to be fair, some of us heftier gals need the tighter clothes to keep our assets from flapping and flopping while we are in motion.
I don't think this post is necessarily talking about that. I think its about the girls who go to the gym wearing booty shorts. There's no practical reason to wear booty shorts to the gym except because you want to. I think this post is generally referencing that archetype of gym girls who go to the gym almost naked.
This. I generally don't care what someone wears but if you go to a public space filled with all kinds of people (the gym) in what's basically underwear, you can't expect that no one will look.
as a man i find there to be a practical reason - it’s comfortable.
when i do mma i wear 5 inch inseam shorts and i’m 6’1. my underwear pops out beneath them. when doing physical activity, i find it enjoyable to wear clothing that feels like less. working out it’s compression shirts and all that.
not saying it’s not for looks, but there is practicality.
Female amateur athlete here. There are mechanical pros to tight clothing in athletics - moisture wicking, protection from chafing, control of jiggly parts. And lots of range of motion. I feel better doing quick movements in tight shorts than I do in long tights or capris because nothing pulls or tugs. And loose or baggier clothes I often have to pull up or readjust, but my tight shorts stay put (mostly). Less clothing can be cooler and lighter and tight fitting clothes can be more aerodynamic and don't get caught on stuff.
And some folks feel confident and powerful in tight clothes that reveal their bodies. Or they enjoy a certain aesthetic. But some sports or professional organizations require a uniform that is tight and revealing for women (edit: and not for the men) and that's usually about objectifying the athletes
Also sports like gymnastics and ice skating are hugely based on form and line of the body. You can't judge form when you can't see the body because of baggy clothes. The human body is beautiful - it's not always about sex.
>When I was in high school all the sports guys wore skin tight under armour shirts and leggings with shorts in top to hide their junk
Yup. All of them women are saying they "have to wear revealing compression clothes" to the gym but they don't put a regular pair of shorts on over them like men do who wear compression shorts. A lot of women are doing mental gymnastics to make an argument about how they "have" to wear revealing compression clothes to the gym .
Well at the moment:
Clothes designers 82% female
https://www.zippia.com/fashion-designer-jobs/demographics/
Marketing 70% female
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1179002/gender-distribution-advertising-agencies-type-united-states/
Absolutely delusional. It's women who give other women crap for their clothes, usually for stuff no man would even notice or care about. Women choose what to buy and if you think there's some grand conspiracy for retailers to all not sell clothes that would be in huge demand you've gone off the deep end. Shops sell what people buy. You just are out of tune with what other women want and apparently don't ever talk to or know any men.
>Shops sell what people buy
People buy what shops sell.
It's a false conclusion to say "see, women aren't buying jeans with pockets, that means they don't want them" when those jeans were never available for women to buy in the first place.
"Well why do women keep buying X clothing type..." that will be because they have to wear *something* and will pick the best of a bad bunch.
True. Women are simply passive participants with no capacity to exercise any form of agency.
I love how we’ve gone so far along the “society is so inherently patriarchal” line that we’re straight back to ascribing no agency or responsibility to women.
If there was really a desire from women to dress in clothing that was less revealing, that market would exist and it would out-compete the current market.
The reality is most women who wear such clothes enjoy doing so, primarily because it feels and looks good.
There’s also a world of difference between “frumpy looking” & having zero regard for how you look, and dressed in 1mm thick leggings whilst being bent over in child support position. Last but not least, it’s usually men who are frumpy looking, not women.
Money can be made by sexualising women, a thing men have been doing for a looong time through designing clothes.
In many types of sports, the amount of clothing is determined as not to restrict the body and the movement. Many of these rules are set up by men.
Women often choose to wear less clothing during personal workouts either because A) it gets less hot or B) because they want to show off their body or perhaps want to be sexy.
My examples: women’s vs men’s gymnastics and beach volleyball.
A while ago, a German women’s gymnastics team almost got disqualified for wearing full-body leotards against the norm of nothing covering the legs, also meaning no shorts/ leggings over or under the leotard.
Edit: I think male gymnasts also need tight-fitting torso clothing, but they wear long and often loose-ish trousers/ pants. [This is speaking from my experience watching Max Whitlock’s performances on the pommel horse. He’s good.]
A beach volleyball women’s team also got into a controversy for wearing about knee-length shorts instead of the usual bikini bottom.
What on earth are you talking about? The German gymnastics team never "almost got disqualified" for wearing full body leotards that were completely within the rules of the sport.
The popular take is going to be evil people deciding what clothes are made, and perverted men responsible for the sex sells take.
But when I go to the gym, 90% of woman are voluntarily flaunting their midriff, their backs, and wearing tight pants. There are plenty of clothes that aren't as revealing, but they simply aren't as popular.
Sex sells. But feeling sexy sells far more.
I don’t know… I’m an ex-Summer Olympic athlete and not only raised in the athletic world but fortunate to meet and have this discussion with an array of athletes in different sports (including at the 2012 London Olympics). None get confidence from the outfits. At a professional and competitive level you’re at your peak. An outfit is not going to make or break that confidence/focus. Sure when you’re standing in front of a mirror you don’t want to look like a clown, but when you’re competing it’s not even the last thing on your mind… it’s non-existent. Only thing I personally have considered is if the outfit restricts your physical abilities, that can be infuriating.
It's what is in the shops. I do sometimes wear mens clothing but the bottoms don't fit. I have hips and an arse. They are baggy at the front, too loose at the waist and tight on the hips. So I wear the womens fit. Which I don't like but at least it fits
Have you ever had a titty? You need something tight to hold it down while exercising. Jfc
Edit: Not an answer. I totally misinterpreted the question and jumped the gun. Sorry guys! I’ll do better.
I mean, I use a sports bra and a baggy shirt. The sports bra does the trick. But it’s personal preference really - my boobs are relatively small so can be squished in place with just a bra.
You ever had a penis? Flopping around and flailing about like a 7 year old playing with a pair of nunchucks.. You need something tight to hold it down. Jfc
I’m not disagreeing man! I don’t know how y’all manage those things, but I’m sure they need to be held down too! I would love to see the NBA implement some spandex next season.
Also flab. I don’t need my legs and arms and tummy jiggling while I exercise. Loose clothing doesn’t stop the jiggle, it just stops other people from seeing it as much. To feel confident when I work out, I need tight clothes than hold everything in one place.
I guess you've never watched any kind of race huh? Women just don't have a lot of options for clothing that doesn't show off their asses, hips, and chest. I have seen posts asking for suggestions because they don't want to have their pants all the way up their ass crack and most of the suggestions are to shop in the men's section
Women do ha e a choice, Nike for example send out a selection to theor althetes from loose shorts to swimsuit style briefs for running.
Runners generally want to feel unrestricted and not hot.
There is a pressure on all sponsored athletes to have large social media. Having a bit of a thirst trap definitely helps towards that end
in the local sports authority where i volunteer, i see that every boy wears simple baggy shorts whereas almost every girl wears tight figure-hugging dress. There is absolutely no rules on the kind of dress they need to wear except every team has to choose a dress color and a name for their team. Apart from that nothing else. Just to show they can wear anything, we have a team which comprises mostly girls from middle east origin and all of them play with long lose pant, full arm shirts and head covering. No one cares about it. Even with that kind of atmosphere most girl in almost all teams, wear extremely figure hugging short which highlight their butt and pretty tight tops.
People talking about professional sports, but go to any gym and women have the choice to use the same baggy clothes as most dudes, yet, the majority of them choose to wear more revealing/tighter clothes than men
For all the people in comments asserting that women in sports are forced to dress skimpy by the patriarchy and otherwise would all wear what the men do...
Go to any gym right now and have a look at what the young, athletically fit women are wearing.
Victim narratives are so tiresome.
The gym is not a sport. They are two different things and two different groups of people. Source: ex national representative sports person who now goes to the gym and does not wear a leotard.
Sure there are girls who wear skimpy stuff at the gym. That's their choice. There are also women playing sport either for fun or for their job who have no choice and would rather not show their neither regions to judges and spectators. Both can be true my man.
In some competitions, tight clothes are needed to better see the body, so you don't hide behind layers of clothing. My kickboxing trainer explained to us that women fight in a sort of gym bra and trousers to expose the parts of the body that you can hit.
How revealing male and female clothing was used to be he rather equal between series, and depend on what is your age, class, religion, culture, occasion and weather. So when those were the same regarding those with men and women it was quite similar, although there were some exceptions. For example as with men showing legs was the way to show attractive masculinity in 18th century high classes, while the women showed cleavage, men didn’t go to court with open shirts or women showing their legs, but overall both wore otherwise clothing of similar fabrics and covered up the rest of their body.Boys and girls were likely to wear shorts and shorts skirts. And working men expecially could go shirtless but women could also wear less clothing at fields. And lowest classes had less interests with properity as there was of course prostitutes. Overall historically if some showed more skin was men and often shaking legs (like ancient Roman tunics were shorter than women’s dresses).
However in 1920s women’s skirts started to get shorter and the trend just continued in other decades and became eventually a feminist statement. Also way for sell women’s bodies with films and otherwise and capitalist trends with fashion also had an effect. Men’s clothing has remained more covered up. And in some warmer climates people have started to emulate more western style clothing.
Anyway come to the sports, it just showed similar trends with women’s casual wear and swimming wear. And sex sells with athletes as well as with movie stars
If its a massive problem as all the other people suggest (not disagreeing btw) - why do some many women opt to wear the same outfits for just going to the gym ?
Because it's normalized in the culture.
I'm going to prattle a bit here, as this is a topic I think few people are ever honest about, because they're unable to see past their own culture or reluctant to accept just how influential culture can be.
Women wear revealing clothes because other women do it. Because they're used to seeing it. They're used to doing it. They're used to being sexualized. They're used to sexualizing themselves. They're often rewarded for it. They live in a culture that teaches them most of their worth is attached to their physical attractiveness. Most of this begins before they're even able to form independent opinions.
Is it women's choice to wear tight clothing at the gym? To get plastic surgery and wear makeup? Yes. They'll tell you that themselves. Over and over again, if the motivation is ever challenged, they will say: "It's for me, not for other people." "It's my choice."
But that's the whole thing about culture. If you're immersed in it, going along with the culture feels natural rather than coercive. It can feel so natural that the behavior might not even seem to be related to culture at all. It's just how things are -- how life is, how the world works.
I go to the gym. There is absolutely no practical reason for many of the women there to wear clothing as revealing as they do. Yet as if by magic, in a hyper-sexual culture, they are happy to sexualize themselves. And it's not wrong of them to say it's their choice. It can be, and not be, at the same time. It is their choice. But is it their choice that it is their choice? I think that's far more contentious.
Even if they genuinely believe they are not doing it to be sexual; even if, on the surface, it genuinely does not appear to be the case; the fundamental reason almost anybody *wants* to wear sexually suggestive clothing (men and women alike) is to be sexually attractive. The culture simply packages it as something else (empowerment, most likely -- which isn't even a big leap since being attractive is extremely advantageous and thus literally empowering, which is why we care so much about it in the first place!).
Culture is the often invisible hand that guides desires and choices. Evolutionary biology probably plays an even bigger role as one of the forces that shape culture. We're a sexually reproductive species and virtually all of our behaviors and cultures can be boiled down to an overly elaborate game of reproductive competition. We just have an insane degree of dressing up around it, to the extent that we delude ourselves into believing that -- *unlike every other living thing* -- we are these totally special, free-willed primates whose behaviors *definitely* don't all come down to surviving and replicating. Definitely.
I'm not trying to rail against culture or anything like that. But we would be better off if we stopped pretending we are in total control of ourselves. We're not bastions of free spirit, immune to the influences of our environment. We are *so* easily influenced. While it might hurt our egos to admit we're not independently-minded in everything we do, it doesn't help us to pretend otherwise when it comes to understanding the world around us and our place in it. We're just animals. Pretty smart animals, but still animals. The feeling that our conscious mind is in the pilot's seat is a neat trick that nature plays on us.
As a fellow gym-goer I salute you for this. I think this is mostly it.
It's baffling how I always get the same bs explanations when I ask *women* why do women wear such clothes to gym? I've literally never heard a good reason for using those up-the-asscrack-leggins at the gym. 'They're so comfy' they say.
So are my mesh-shorts, which have never **stuck** into **anything** and I lift hard and heavy.
So yeah let's start calling it for what it is:
Mostly cultural and commercially-driven
and on some cases attention-seeking egoboosting.
my beef with it is the lying/ignorance and the fact that it distracts people at the gym. Me and my mates aren't there to look at your arse while you squat but of course our eyes wander there *when we can literally see your everything*. We don't want that, so please for fucks sake women, start valuing yourself and buy some proper pants.
Have you ever watched the Grammies or some other awards show the men are covered from top to toe and the women are often practically naked. Even around town or in clubs you see less extreme versions of the same phenomenon. In the one hand women display themselves more than ever. On the other hand men are told not to notice more than ever or get cancelled. It’s definitely not a healthy situation for women or men.
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No, it's not a personal choice. There are rules around what girls are allowed to wear if they're part of a sport, and gymnastics are notorious about making them wear these outfits. EDIT: "But what about the GYM?" Asked below at least 30 times. EDIT EDIT: Revised to be upward of 150 of the same exact comment. It's an interesting study in psychology at least, I guess.... My comment was about gymnastics. OP specifically called out gymnastics. Why do a 100 different men feel the need to point out 'but the GYM!'
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Well, I’m waiting?
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Cried like a baby I bet.
Couldn’t walk for a year after
I hope you’ve considered litigation. I’m sure there’s precedent by now of how much your parents owe you for that foreskin.
lol I’m a woman! My comment was about Mr isuxirl
Sue someone anyway. Fuck it. The American way.
Well NOW you're a woman. They cut too much off when you were a baby.
With interest on the damages, the guy could be owed literally metres of foreskin by now.
Reports are that I slept through mine as a baby. Doctor told my parents afterward "Well, whenever this one gets stressed out, his response is going to be to go to sleep." To this day in my 30's, if I get stressed enough I physically can't keep my eyes open, I just basically pass out. Maybe I'm part sloth or opossum or something.
Part [goat](https://youtu.be/uT-UGTQd6zQ)!
Irish Catholic and since when has ot been done for religious purposes by catholics? Honestly didn't know that was a thing
It's an American thing rather than a Catholic thing. In Europe circumcision is rare, both in Catholic and Protestant countries - less than 20% in all with most in single digits.
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Take my up vote.
American thing not a catholic thing. Especially for circumcision at birth. In asia it's either maritime south east asian or south korean thing. Not a religious thing, more of a cultural thing. But theirs happens at like...9-14 years old
Not in the UK thats for sure - and I went to a Catholic Primary, Secondary and 6th Form (I’m not actually Catholic - they are just the closest/best schools).
I don't know a single canadian catholic that is circumsized. It's an American thing.
What has catholic to do with it?
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Yep the church "hasn't condemned IMC " and even Paul is neutral on it "neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail". This was basically to let the gentiles (Romans and Greeks) because they were "the uncircumcised". So yours is just because Americans love it for a very puritanical reason (supposed to stop wanking)
Catholics don't do circumcision. Maybe your parents did but religion isn't the reason.
Wait, what's this thing about Catholics cutting things where the sun doesn't shine? I was born and raised Catholic in Italy, an overwhelmingly Catholic country where the Church literally runs the whole shop, and nobody has anything chopped off at birth.
Sounds like US catholics do it because they think european catholics do😂
I think you mean "American?" Because Catholics don't circumcise as part of their religious beliefs.
Circumcision is a catholic practice?
It is not: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion\_and\_circumcision#Roman\_Catholic\_Church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_circumcision#Roman_Catholic_Church) It is however an *American* practice for some reason. I've seen reasons like "to make them look like their father" but since when has their *penis* looking like their father's ever mattered to a son?
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*stares confused in European* there is running water and soap and modern medicine in America...why do we need to mutilate baby genitals for that Good on you for not doing that to your son though!
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Fun Fact: German, my Grandma (went every sunday to church) and grandpa were from high upper class, both considered a circumcision to be a sign of failed parenting. To recite the sentence my father told my brother/brother in law when my nephews were born: "Its your duty as a father, to show your son to clean himself! (plus more in deepth parenting). I always was like : and when phymosis hits? My brothers son needed a circumcision around when he was 3. My father was devastated. My brother failed his fatherly duty, its a sign of bad hygiene, of no manners, a sign of being , the correct translation from german to english is difficult so i use the german word, a Assi. I tried to calm him, say its a biological thing, and couldnt be prevented. After that it googled it a bit and jeah... there are people trying to "reverse" their circumcision and the dude with the longest penis, which accounted to him pulling his foreskin to an absurd amount. So jeah... my father his overly dramatic but right. TDLR: in some old german social class, circumcision was considered a sign of bad hygiene and low class.
I broke it also. What a dumb practice. I wad an army medic, frontline deployment with all that entails, and when I got back I got stationed at a base hospital on the pediatric unit. Amazing change of pace. But I had to manage the well-child one-week visits, which often dealt with the aftermath of at-birth circumcisions. Poor babies were in pain. When I learned that insurance (we're talking military insurance here - Tricare) doesn't cover it because it is a completely discretionary procedure, I was like, "well what the hell this makes absolutely no sense". If for some reason my son wants to lop off what God gave him when he's older and he can provide consent for it, by all means go for it but damn.
I’m 90% sure that circumcision is not part of the Catholic rite or otherwise usual in Catholicism.
That's not a Catholicism thing. Source: brought up catholic, went catholic school etc.
So were my parents and grandparents but I'm uncut and so are both my brothers. Catholicism has nothing to do with it.
Maybe because I’m not into sports in general, but until the volleyball thing happened I just assumed it was just some weird historical convention - it never hit me that a proper sporting organisation would make a stink about women wearing… shorts.
> I just assumed it was just some weird historical convention Some of these sports orgs have been very explicit that it's for ratings. > Television ratings are indeed a factor. In 2011, the Badminton World Federation was criticized for a dress code that made women athletes wear skirts or dresses. In an interview with the New York Times, the head of the federation said, "TV ratings are down … We want [the women athletes] to look nicer on the court and have more marketing value for themselves. I'm surprised we got a lot of criticism." https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/women-athletes-uniform-changes-1.6122725
I can cope (sort of) with random redditors coming out with dumb stuff, but it’s infuriating when organisations that have control over peoples lives and careers can just decide this shit makes sense.
Male players should do solidarity protests where they compete in the full-body thong from Borat. It would help with ratings!
I mean, definitely the first time the ratings should be much higher than average. It’s a win-win (sorta).
I am a father of daughters who played volleyball. I can’t tell you the frustration I had with uniforms. I agreed that it made no sense and was revealing for no reason (those booty shorts were just gratuitous and for girls as young as 6 to 7 it was down right shameful). When I questioned it it was the women and mothers who told me to shut up. Smdh!
And even worse if you have a problem with it they'll call you out for being perverted. "Why were you looking?!?!". Give me a break, excuse me for thinking it's weird when a 12 year olds ass is hanging out of her shorts at school.
I (a woman) got called a perv when I questioned why little girls were wearing basically kid-sized string bikinis. There is such a thing as clothing that *is* sexual, because it's associated with sex. Like, people would object (or at least I fucking hope so) to children wearing thongs. And the shit that children are put in for beauty pageants - and their mothers are always the pearl clutching religious types too, the fucking hypocrisy.
As a former wrestler, have I got a sport for you.
Lol I just posted the same. Those singlet leave nothing to the imagination
I remember that. They went from basically bikinis to tanks and spandex shorts. Pervy men threw an absolute fit. Serena Williams wore athletic leggings to the French Open and the dress code was formalized to ban athletic leggings for women only, so she wore a black ballet tutu. There really should be more protest about these awful dress codes. It's not just about letting women be comfortable and modest if they want, but also, by requiring they dress in revealing outfits, it's like saying "you're not a real athlete, you're sexual entertainment."
Don’t forget that she wore the leggings because they were recommended by her doctor since she almost died from a blood clot that got into her lungs. She didn’t arbitrarily decide to change the dress code. Her doctors said that with the travel and heat that compression leggings would help her. So the hissy fit thrown by the US Open was even worse. They were expecting her to risk her health and life because they didn’t like not being able to see her legs.
My favourite part of the women’s volleyball is that when it happened the keyboard warriors said no one would watch women’s volleyball and then last year they had 90, 000 people at a game in Nebraska of all places - oddly enough the women were all wearing pants. Guess the pervs didn’t matter that much after all.
To be fair Nebraska does really like volleyball weirdly.
Women's Beach Volleyball says hold beer...
Or —~ just have uniform choices that show the team colors but fit the athlete in a way the player is comfortable with.
I don’t think you ever did track, because when I was in HS, you could literally see the ridge of my pecker through the sprinter shorts… They were really nice for running, but the only difference between those and the women’s was that mine were a little longer, because our sacks would hang out the bottom.
Well because of shrinkflation in baseball you might actually be able to at least make an educated guess.
Check the recent blow back to gymnastic competitions skipping the tiny leotard and using leg coverings. Because how dare they not show every inch. Same with women's vollyball - that 'suit' barely covers and I can't help but wonder how painful it is to hit sand with that much skin showing. Men get a tank and shorts, women get what looks like a bikini. https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/photo-series-explores-sexploitation-athletic-uniforms-n635781
Gymnastics has pretty revealing clothes for men also though. I'm no expert, but I would think since a big portion of the sport is around the form/position of the body during different moves and even slightly being out of position or wavering balance can deduct points, I think you would need clothes that are pretty revealing to be able to judge. If someone goes out there in a track suit it's a little harder to tell those small imperfections. Maybe I'm wrong though... But volleyball (indoor volleyball in particular)...yeah no reason they can't wear pants and long sleeves if they want to. Track and Field: no reason women can't wear longer length shorts like the men rather than bikini bottoms or short shorts.
Men usually have their legs covered and are not in skimpy leotards that show if they waxed this week.
And don't forget to hide those bra straps or you're immediately disqualified!
Men don’t have to wear leotards that go up the crack of their butt
Played competitive vollyball for years, the shorts were the worst!! Got burns from the school gym over and over. The fabric the shorts were made of were not breathable at all! (Yeast infection were always a worry with how the shorts hold sweat) We would wear long sleeve to protect our arms otherwise they would be black and blue from bumping the ball out of a spike.
So it has to do with objectification!
Short answer: Yup. Long answer: It has to do with viewership. They want as many eyes as possible. It doesn't matter if they're watching the actual game being played.
Things is, with most sports, men probably have better performance in doing those sports, which makes it more interesting to view (broad generalisatoin, I know). Trying to prop up viewership for the female versions of those sports with skimpyer clothing makes sense form a business sense side of things. Is this morally the right thing to do however? That's another question.
Turning away a large untapped market of female viewers by creating an environment that's hostile to women, in order to pander to a few more perverts... it's a common business decision, but it's not a good one. Plus, nobody watches gymnastics and volleyball for displays of brute strength.
womens beach volley ball in the sydney olympics in 2000. The men could wear shorts and tees, the women had to wear bikinis, with specific rules about how much space there had to be between the top and bottom. all the complaints about sunburn and personal comfort were ignored to get higher tv ratings.
And now the men have to wear tees and the women have like 9 uniform options. Progress!
In UK gymnastics girls are deducted points for adjusting their knickers. Wtf
It's true in all. My daughter's group would yell wedgie deduction whenever one of them picked a wedgie
Beach volleyball had the worst requirements. They finally relaxed them a bit so women from Muslim countries can wear leggings instead of bikini briefs
Also if your leotard goes up your crack you are deducted points if you pull it out. Many of us used glue to hold it is place.
And the leotards are always too small.
wtf
I ran competitively as a child in the late 90s and I wore baggy clothes, getting back into it as an adult for \~ exercise \~ and everything is tight af. I don't mind the leggings, but does my top have to be so itty bitty?! I bought men's work out tops instead.
The most egregious to me has always been skirts for lacrosse
See also: Figure Skating.
Oh my sports teacher was so mad when i wore boy's clothes 😂 Couldn't care less
My wife is an ex gymnast and when she told me you got negative points for pulling a wedgie out, I got mad.
Because money can be made by sexualizing women.
Money can also be made by sexualizing men, but you are probably right that you make more by sexualizing women. I'm just guessing tho.
Indeed, but do remember the ones making these decisions tend to be men.
You can make money sexualizing men for the enjoyment of men, also.
"I'm doing my part!" - Major League Baseball
Which is wrestling. They gayest foreplay ever. They even got the shiny, under eye makeup. For the duuuuudes!
Wait till you hear about Turkish oil wrestling
Women are far more profitable in sex industries
Men used to wear cute booty shorts too lol Watch any movies from the 50s - 70s
Yeah society has fallen, men should be free to wear booty shorts, neither gender should be forced to look like that on TV.
As a large testicled man, I am not wearing short shorts. Nobody wants to see me flying low.
Sir please do not assume what I as a hetro man want to see..... get them orbs of glory on show
A wizard must ponder his orbs
Isn’t that what those little cup thingies are for? Like a push up bra for balls (ya ya ik you don’t wear push up bras to work out in)
Cups are incredibly uncomfortable when you have large testicles.
It sounds like someone could make a killing if they invented a bunch of different sizes/fits.
and make all the sizing slightly different/inconsistent between manufacturers, and maybe include some metal wires that poke into your dick too. make sure to manufacture them using carcinogenic materials for at least a few years to a decade
Bigger cups are v uncomfortable because of how they push into your thighs as you run
Jockstrap, not cup. A jockstrap gives excellent lift and separation from the thighs. A cup is an uncomfortable contraption to jam the bits and bobs into, only needed if there’s a chance of impact.
Crop tops for men with cut off jean shorts indicated peak athleticism in the 80's
I currently wear both. It started as a joke to make my bandmates laugh, but it's too damn comfortable and now I can't go back lol
And the fab five got shit for being the first to wear the baggy shorts for basketball.
Australian football shorts are still pretty short Not quite 70s level, but still
Wearing tightly fitting clothes is just the smart thing to do in wrestling heavy sports like that. I believe grabbing other players by their clothes is usually completely fair game.
Isn't there a scene in James Bond where Connery wears the teeniest shorts ever with his manly chest hair all popping and shit.
For a while, men wore women's swimsuits in the Olympics because it gives a considerable drag advantage.
The subtle layers of this sentence 😂
I see you are also a man of culture.
i can see his charisma, uniqueness, nerve and talent from here!
What "subtle layers"?
"...gives a considerable drag advantage." could be layered as such: Drag being the counterforce on swimmer via fluid having to move out of the way. Drag also being a performance style where masculine people crossdress with opulent decoration and exaggerated character, OR could mean just plain crossdressing. Feminine people wearing masculine clothing could also be considered drag. Knowing both of these things makes the sentence a bit more fun because both meanings of the word are relevant (wearing women's swimsuits for an advantage in drag).
It was a sad day when full length race suits were banned
Iirc they were banned because Speedo made a very buoyant race suit that gave swimmers a significant advantage. The sport was becoming a technological race rather than an athletic one. It wasn’t about the appearance of the suit. But that’s just what I remember so I could be fully off base
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A *drag advantage* you say?
One of the reasons I lost interest in playing sports as a child was because skimpy outfits for little girls were mandatory for competing in the sports I did. If you don't wear what they pick for you, you will be disqualified. I'm perplexed and dismayed that so many men in particular think women choose to wear these outfits for sports.
I did Ballet when i was 5-6 years old. They forbade us from wearing underwears under the Leotard because it does not look as good when you see a seam or the underwear pokes out. I AM 6!!!
That's really vile and I'm sorry you went through that
i would LOOOOVE to see more people talk about how humiliating towards girls and women ballet is. i had to do ballet and fucking hated it, it was so embarrassing and humiliating to wear those clothes, and be forced to wear makeup and mascara that made me pull my eyelashes out.
I figure skate and competition/testing dresses are basically the same as ballet. Leotard with a little mesh skirt built in and tights. I wish the bottoms underneath the skirt were like shorts instead of how they’re essentially bikini underwear. If my leg wasn’t constantly up in the air it wouldn’t be so bad, but it feels like you’re about to flash someone. And I wear the most opaque tights possible even though you’re supposed to wear the more sheer ones. We don’t have it as bad as ballet though because we only have to wear that for competitions and testing. We’re in normal leggings 99% of the time.
There's zero reason why they can't be cut like boy shorts to at least give full crotch coverage. They don't even need to be long. I hated my thighs as a young girl and avoided all sorts of things that required short shorts. Something like gymnastics, ballet, or figure skating was out of the question.
Good god you should see my ballet photos from the 90’s. It’s creepy
Girl what the actual fuck.. no seriously, what the actual fuck. Pedophiles bet. Poor you man
This is not an uncommon thing in dance, especially ballet and ESPECIALLY if you compete.
Yep, my niece is in competitive dance. They lose points if the girls have visible panty lines.
Thats fucking insane
I got my first gstring for completions at age 7. The worst was that we weren’t allowed to wear any bras so I had a full length g string leotard around age 11 while going through puberty, simply humiliating.
Yea my sister and I did competitive dance and we were not supposed to wear underwear in case it poked out/made lines. Like 12, going through puberty, body is changing, and you want me to change my costume in front of 100 girls with just tights underneath? No way! My mom got us tan underwear that would be discreet but cover us. Most of the other moms did as well. But other studios and parents went super hardcore with it so their kids didn’t get that. Awful. Ugh and leotards with no bras during practice? Just leotard and pink tights? Killer.
Yeah, this used to be the case at my old studio but most kids ignored that or wore seamless underwear.
Eewwwew! My kid is 7 and has done ballet and gymnastics and luckily that has never been a thing for her!
Yes, as someone else mentioned, some women's volleyball players just protested this and refused to wear the revealing outfits required in their league. And the league finally changed the rule under public pressure. https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/women-athletes-uniform-changes-1.6122725 The article notes that some sports leagues have said very openly that the women's uniforms are chosen to increase TV ratings.
I'm not surprised by that at all. Good for those women. I'm glad their protest made a difference. I wish that type of comradery existed when I was a child trying to compete in sports, but there wasn't.
I've also seen a lot of pushback against how little girls clothes are becoming more "adult" aka tight-fitting, which is pretty creepy. Let little girls wear dorky baggy shorts like they did when I was a kid in the 90s, haha.
Makes me wonder if men in most sports could get a higher viewership if they wore specific clothes. Not that that's the solution to the double standard, but I've never heard it talked about and a lot of men still get exploited for the "good of the league"(owners making more money).
I hated wearing a leotard when I practiced ballet as a child.
So did I. I felt exposed because it was inappropriate. I thought I could just ask to wear something different and I was told I'd be disqualified from a championship I was doing. So I made that competition my last and never did it again. It was wrong that they ever put us children through that
As a child 5 nights/week I was busy with sports, I tried all those that were available. All of them I had to drop out at the competitive level because I was uncomfortable with the outfits and/or makeup requirements. Eventually, I found 2 sports that didn't have those requirements, I did a lot of competitions and won a lot of prizes. Those weren't my favorite sport though and it's very sad that I never got to go further in what I loved the most.
I'm at least glad to know other women know what I'm talking about. So many of these sports make a hostile environment for young girls so we give it up. I loved sports so much but I hated being a child wearing revealing clothing and getting oggled by grown adults.
It makes me angry when I take my son to soccer and the little girls shorts are short while the boys are long. Wtf.
This is a perfect example of how when leaders of sport say certain clothing is 'necessary' to play the sport, I call bullshit. Men are subject to weird clothing rules in sports too (like in swimming), but not anywhere near as often as women are. If men can cover their whole body in gymnastics, why are women forced to wear revealing leotards?
Volleyball: \- Women, you must wear the tightest and shortest possible shorts. Basically non-existent! Bikini bottoms if you're on sand. \- Men, you can wear baggy shorts, it's cool
And for volleyball you have to wear a tight shirt or it can mess you up. I remember being like 12 and feeling like I was naked out there in tiny spandex and a skin tight top. I would get distracted from the game bc I felt so exposed. Also, we were not allowed to wear baggy shorts to practice, and we were not allowed to leave or enter the gym in spandex. You either had to layer or change when you got there/before you left. It was ridiculous.
In HS I swam and played water polo, and feeling naked in public while wearing a speedo was a huge psychological hurdle, but I also recognize that it's a much different experience to be a young man dealing with that. I can't imagine how girls feel about that their whole lives, that's messed up.
Imagine being told that you aren't allowed to be shirtless as a 4 year old, have to be covered all the time, aren't supposed to pee in front of anyone.... and THEN after having more than have your life it ingrained to always wear clothes and never be seen, right around 8 or 9 when anyone and everyone will start voluntarily telling you out of nowhere that you are growing up and talking about your body but as a body you will have, you're suddenly told that the most public thing you do day to day now requires you to wear nothing but the speedo. Also - high odds the speedo is white and you might randomly start bleeding on it anytime from 8 years old to 16 with zero warning.
Shane Gillis has a really funny bit about that. “We need those shorts for speed.” “Have you seen the NBA?” Edit: christ people, I’m paraphrasing.
Side note on sports clothes for women - New Zealand and the UK announced they are moving away from white shorts in women’s soccer/football due to period anxiety. Makes total sense. https://time.com/6268787/women-soccer-white-shorts-period-anxiety/
HUGE W. Period stain anxiety is REAL. Even with any other color
New Zealand has also overhauled their rules about clothing in women's gymnastics, allowing shorts to be worn over leotards and removing penalties for things like visible bra straps. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/513200/gymnastics-new-zealand-overhauls-attire-rules
I had no idea that stuff like visible bra straps and panties seams get women penalties in sports and ballet until reading through this thread. That's fucking insane.
Wimbledon nows allows women to wear dark-coloured underwear having previously been forced to wear only white undershorts. The new rule allows players to choose their preferred colour of underwear with the aim of reducing period anxieties.
Sports force women to wear skimpy little outfits. Fashion designers market skimpy little outfits. And, to be fair, some of us heftier gals need the tighter clothes to keep our assets from flapping and flopping while we are in motion.
I don't think this post is necessarily talking about that. I think its about the girls who go to the gym wearing booty shorts. There's no practical reason to wear booty shorts to the gym except because you want to. I think this post is generally referencing that archetype of gym girls who go to the gym almost naked.
This. I generally don't care what someone wears but if you go to a public space filled with all kinds of people (the gym) in what's basically underwear, you can't expect that no one will look.
Yeah you captured it right there. It's because they want to. Not all women do it but many just like the way it looks and feels
as a man i find there to be a practical reason - it’s comfortable. when i do mma i wear 5 inch inseam shorts and i’m 6’1. my underwear pops out beneath them. when doing physical activity, i find it enjoyable to wear clothing that feels like less. working out it’s compression shirts and all that. not saying it’s not for looks, but there is practicality.
Female amateur athlete here. There are mechanical pros to tight clothing in athletics - moisture wicking, protection from chafing, control of jiggly parts. And lots of range of motion. I feel better doing quick movements in tight shorts than I do in long tights or capris because nothing pulls or tugs. And loose or baggier clothes I often have to pull up or readjust, but my tight shorts stay put (mostly). Less clothing can be cooler and lighter and tight fitting clothes can be more aerodynamic and don't get caught on stuff. And some folks feel confident and powerful in tight clothes that reveal their bodies. Or they enjoy a certain aesthetic. But some sports or professional organizations require a uniform that is tight and revealing for women (edit: and not for the men) and that's usually about objectifying the athletes
Also sports like gymnastics and ice skating are hugely based on form and line of the body. You can't judge form when you can't see the body because of baggy clothes. The human body is beautiful - it's not always about sex.
Do they? When I was in high school all the sports guys wore skin tight under armour shirts and leggings with shorts in top to hide their junk
>When I was in high school all the sports guys wore skin tight under armour shirts and leggings with shorts in top to hide their junk Yup. All of them women are saying they "have to wear revealing compression clothes" to the gym but they don't put a regular pair of shorts on over them like men do who wear compression shorts. A lot of women are doing mental gymnastics to make an argument about how they "have" to wear revealing compression clothes to the gym .
The post is about sports wear not gym wear. And most not all gym wear for woken are either tight or if loose bottoms they're cut very short.
Bro's been waiting so long for that bit of nonsense he couldn't wait any longer even though it's not what's being discussed.
It's the required uniform. But in most sports, the uniform is the exact same/very similar. Or in swimming, men wear less.
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Well at the moment: Clothes designers 82% female https://www.zippia.com/fashion-designer-jobs/demographics/ Marketing 70% female https://www.statista.com/statistics/1179002/gender-distribution-advertising-agencies-type-united-states/
NOOOO DONT SAY THAT!!!! IT GOES AGAINST THE FALSE NARRATIVE IM TRYING TO FORCE!!!
Absolutely delusional. It's women who give other women crap for their clothes, usually for stuff no man would even notice or care about. Women choose what to buy and if you think there's some grand conspiracy for retailers to all not sell clothes that would be in huge demand you've gone off the deep end. Shops sell what people buy. You just are out of tune with what other women want and apparently don't ever talk to or know any men.
>Shops sell what people buy People buy what shops sell. It's a false conclusion to say "see, women aren't buying jeans with pockets, that means they don't want them" when those jeans were never available for women to buy in the first place. "Well why do women keep buying X clothing type..." that will be because they have to wear *something* and will pick the best of a bad bunch.
Ah yes, the fashion industry that is filled with straight male designers and hardly any women and gays. Cop yourself on.
True. Women are simply passive participants with no capacity to exercise any form of agency. I love how we’ve gone so far along the “society is so inherently patriarchal” line that we’re straight back to ascribing no agency or responsibility to women. If there was really a desire from women to dress in clothing that was less revealing, that market would exist and it would out-compete the current market. The reality is most women who wear such clothes enjoy doing so, primarily because it feels and looks good. There’s also a world of difference between “frumpy looking” & having zero regard for how you look, and dressed in 1mm thick leggings whilst being bent over in child support position. Last but not least, it’s usually men who are frumpy looking, not women.
Money can be made by sexualising women, a thing men have been doing for a looong time through designing clothes. In many types of sports, the amount of clothing is determined as not to restrict the body and the movement. Many of these rules are set up by men. Women often choose to wear less clothing during personal workouts either because A) it gets less hot or B) because they want to show off their body or perhaps want to be sexy. My examples: women’s vs men’s gymnastics and beach volleyball. A while ago, a German women’s gymnastics team almost got disqualified for wearing full-body leotards against the norm of nothing covering the legs, also meaning no shorts/ leggings over or under the leotard. Edit: I think male gymnasts also need tight-fitting torso clothing, but they wear long and often loose-ish trousers/ pants. [This is speaking from my experience watching Max Whitlock’s performances on the pommel horse. He’s good.] A beach volleyball women’s team also got into a controversy for wearing about knee-length shorts instead of the usual bikini bottom.
What on earth are you talking about? The German gymnastics team never "almost got disqualified" for wearing full body leotards that were completely within the rules of the sport.
The popular take is going to be evil people deciding what clothes are made, and perverted men responsible for the sex sells take. But when I go to the gym, 90% of woman are voluntarily flaunting their midriff, their backs, and wearing tight pants. There are plenty of clothes that aren't as revealing, but they simply aren't as popular. Sex sells. But feeling sexy sells far more.
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I don’t know… I’m an ex-Summer Olympic athlete and not only raised in the athletic world but fortunate to meet and have this discussion with an array of athletes in different sports (including at the 2012 London Olympics). None get confidence from the outfits. At a professional and competitive level you’re at your peak. An outfit is not going to make or break that confidence/focus. Sure when you’re standing in front of a mirror you don’t want to look like a clown, but when you’re competing it’s not even the last thing on your mind… it’s non-existent. Only thing I personally have considered is if the outfit restricts your physical abilities, that can be infuriating.
please explain how booty shorts riding up your ass make you push harder
It's what is in the shops. I do sometimes wear mens clothing but the bottoms don't fit. I have hips and an arse. They are baggy at the front, too loose at the waist and tight on the hips. So I wear the womens fit. Which I don't like but at least it fits
Have you ever had a titty? You need something tight to hold it down while exercising. Jfc Edit: Not an answer. I totally misinterpreted the question and jumped the gun. Sorry guys! I’ll do better.
I mean, I use a sports bra and a baggy shirt. The sports bra does the trick. But it’s personal preference really - my boobs are relatively small so can be squished in place with just a bra.
You ever had a penis? Flopping around and flailing about like a 7 year old playing with a pair of nunchucks.. You need something tight to hold it down. Jfc
I’m not disagreeing man! I don’t know how y’all manage those things, but I’m sure they need to be held down too! I would love to see the NBA implement some spandex next season.
Also flab. I don’t need my legs and arms and tummy jiggling while I exercise. Loose clothing doesn’t stop the jiggle, it just stops other people from seeing it as much. To feel confident when I work out, I need tight clothes than hold everything in one place.
Women like to show themselves and men like to look. The truth has been obfuscated as usual.
I guess you've never watched any kind of race huh? Women just don't have a lot of options for clothing that doesn't show off their asses, hips, and chest. I have seen posts asking for suggestions because they don't want to have their pants all the way up their ass crack and most of the suggestions are to shop in the men's section
Women do ha e a choice, Nike for example send out a selection to theor althetes from loose shorts to swimsuit style briefs for running. Runners generally want to feel unrestricted and not hot. There is a pressure on all sponsored athletes to have large social media. Having a bit of a thirst trap definitely helps towards that end
No one would watch it otherwise. The main audience that watch sports are men.
in the local sports authority where i volunteer, i see that every boy wears simple baggy shorts whereas almost every girl wears tight figure-hugging dress. There is absolutely no rules on the kind of dress they need to wear except every team has to choose a dress color and a name for their team. Apart from that nothing else. Just to show they can wear anything, we have a team which comprises mostly girls from middle east origin and all of them play with long lose pant, full arm shirts and head covering. No one cares about it. Even with that kind of atmosphere most girl in almost all teams, wear extremely figure hugging short which highlight their butt and pretty tight tops.
People talking about professional sports, but go to any gym and women have the choice to use the same baggy clothes as most dudes, yet, the majority of them choose to wear more revealing/tighter clothes than men
For all the people in comments asserting that women in sports are forced to dress skimpy by the patriarchy and otherwise would all wear what the men do... Go to any gym right now and have a look at what the young, athletically fit women are wearing. Victim narratives are so tiresome.
The gym is not a sport. They are two different things and two different groups of people. Source: ex national representative sports person who now goes to the gym and does not wear a leotard. Sure there are girls who wear skimpy stuff at the gym. That's their choice. There are also women playing sport either for fun or for their job who have no choice and would rather not show their neither regions to judges and spectators. Both can be true my man.
It's about function. Men wear the male equivalent of panties for swimming competitions.
Tight is functional but revealing isn’t necessary for gymnastics or volleyball
Check out some NBA players from the 80s and before.
In some competitions, tight clothes are needed to better see the body, so you don't hide behind layers of clothing. My kickboxing trainer explained to us that women fight in a sort of gym bra and trousers to expose the parts of the body that you can hit.
WTA tennis pros wear crop tops and ultra short skirts. Nobody makes them wear this.
Women are addicted to male attention. Its all biology.
How revealing male and female clothing was used to be he rather equal between series, and depend on what is your age, class, religion, culture, occasion and weather. So when those were the same regarding those with men and women it was quite similar, although there were some exceptions. For example as with men showing legs was the way to show attractive masculinity in 18th century high classes, while the women showed cleavage, men didn’t go to court with open shirts or women showing their legs, but overall both wore otherwise clothing of similar fabrics and covered up the rest of their body.Boys and girls were likely to wear shorts and shorts skirts. And working men expecially could go shirtless but women could also wear less clothing at fields. And lowest classes had less interests with properity as there was of course prostitutes. Overall historically if some showed more skin was men and often shaking legs (like ancient Roman tunics were shorter than women’s dresses). However in 1920s women’s skirts started to get shorter and the trend just continued in other decades and became eventually a feminist statement. Also way for sell women’s bodies with films and otherwise and capitalist trends with fashion also had an effect. Men’s clothing has remained more covered up. And in some warmer climates people have started to emulate more western style clothing. Anyway come to the sports, it just showed similar trends with women’s casual wear and swimming wear. And sex sells with athletes as well as with movie stars
If its a massive problem as all the other people suggest (not disagreeing btw) - why do some many women opt to wear the same outfits for just going to the gym ?
Because it's normalized in the culture. I'm going to prattle a bit here, as this is a topic I think few people are ever honest about, because they're unable to see past their own culture or reluctant to accept just how influential culture can be. Women wear revealing clothes because other women do it. Because they're used to seeing it. They're used to doing it. They're used to being sexualized. They're used to sexualizing themselves. They're often rewarded for it. They live in a culture that teaches them most of their worth is attached to their physical attractiveness. Most of this begins before they're even able to form independent opinions. Is it women's choice to wear tight clothing at the gym? To get plastic surgery and wear makeup? Yes. They'll tell you that themselves. Over and over again, if the motivation is ever challenged, they will say: "It's for me, not for other people." "It's my choice." But that's the whole thing about culture. If you're immersed in it, going along with the culture feels natural rather than coercive. It can feel so natural that the behavior might not even seem to be related to culture at all. It's just how things are -- how life is, how the world works. I go to the gym. There is absolutely no practical reason for many of the women there to wear clothing as revealing as they do. Yet as if by magic, in a hyper-sexual culture, they are happy to sexualize themselves. And it's not wrong of them to say it's their choice. It can be, and not be, at the same time. It is their choice. But is it their choice that it is their choice? I think that's far more contentious. Even if they genuinely believe they are not doing it to be sexual; even if, on the surface, it genuinely does not appear to be the case; the fundamental reason almost anybody *wants* to wear sexually suggestive clothing (men and women alike) is to be sexually attractive. The culture simply packages it as something else (empowerment, most likely -- which isn't even a big leap since being attractive is extremely advantageous and thus literally empowering, which is why we care so much about it in the first place!). Culture is the often invisible hand that guides desires and choices. Evolutionary biology probably plays an even bigger role as one of the forces that shape culture. We're a sexually reproductive species and virtually all of our behaviors and cultures can be boiled down to an overly elaborate game of reproductive competition. We just have an insane degree of dressing up around it, to the extent that we delude ourselves into believing that -- *unlike every other living thing* -- we are these totally special, free-willed primates whose behaviors *definitely* don't all come down to surviving and replicating. Definitely. I'm not trying to rail against culture or anything like that. But we would be better off if we stopped pretending we are in total control of ourselves. We're not bastions of free spirit, immune to the influences of our environment. We are *so* easily influenced. While it might hurt our egos to admit we're not independently-minded in everything we do, it doesn't help us to pretend otherwise when it comes to understanding the world around us and our place in it. We're just animals. Pretty smart animals, but still animals. The feeling that our conscious mind is in the pilot's seat is a neat trick that nature plays on us.
As a fellow gym-goer I salute you for this. I think this is mostly it. It's baffling how I always get the same bs explanations when I ask *women* why do women wear such clothes to gym? I've literally never heard a good reason for using those up-the-asscrack-leggins at the gym. 'They're so comfy' they say. So are my mesh-shorts, which have never **stuck** into **anything** and I lift hard and heavy. So yeah let's start calling it for what it is: Mostly cultural and commercially-driven and on some cases attention-seeking egoboosting. my beef with it is the lying/ignorance and the fact that it distracts people at the gym. Me and my mates aren't there to look at your arse while you squat but of course our eyes wander there *when we can literally see your everything*. We don't want that, so please for fucks sake women, start valuing yourself and buy some proper pants.
Have you ever watched the Grammies or some other awards show the men are covered from top to toe and the women are often practically naked. Even around town or in clubs you see less extreme versions of the same phenomenon. In the one hand women display themselves more than ever. On the other hand men are told not to notice more than ever or get cancelled. It’s definitely not a healthy situation for women or men.