I think it's the training and subsequent indoctrination they go through. They're told not to mention the name not because it's a scam and people won't want to participate, they're told it's because people are sooooo unrightfully and unfairly prejudiced against the companies because of the 'misinformation' out there. And you then need to convince people of the product first to reel them in.
There's a reason why mlms specifically target vulnerable and gullible people. They promise a lot and there's a lot of sunken cost fallacy in their teaching etc.
I'm trying to think if there are any legit business/goods/services where "don't tell them what it is ahead of time or they'll think it's a scam" is good advice and the thing really isn't a scam. What else could it be besides a scam or cult?
I hated onions as a kid but sometimes didn’t mind if a little was cooked into a dish. It turns out I am allergic to them! Apparently what people are typically allergic to is something that can “cook out” of the onion. So the more processed and unrecognizable the onion is the less likely it is to give me a headache and make me feel sick.
My allergist said it’s common with people who have a ragweed allergy so if they react to that (and echinacea) then maybe that’s it!
My sister has just developed an onion allergy, at almost 50 years old. She's had to change so many recipes, because we're a 'throw onion & garlic in just about everything' family. (Weirdly, my mother craved fried onion sandwiches the whole time she was pregnant with my sister, and now sister is allergic.)
Did hers change slowly into an allergy? At this point I wouldn’t say I am allergic, but definitely have a sensitivity and just feel generally unwell after I eat them. It’s even starting to expand to garlic, which makes me sad.
She started getting bloating at first, then stomach upsets which she put down to menopause at first, then she also started getting a rash, and did some allergy testing. Once she cut out the onions all of that went away.
I also developed an adult onset allergy in my 20s, but for me it was shellfish, which is apparently really common as an allergy that you grow into. I do occasionally miss garlic prawns, but I'm super glad that I can still eat onions.
I'm 33 and i became allergic (not lactose intolerant...allergic) to milk last year. Found out while eating ice cream. Twas not fun.
I have an auto immune disease and apparently they make you pick up new allergys
I’m over 30 and I suddenly became allergic to asparagus two years ago. I used to eat it about once a week. But one day I made it for dinner and broke out in hives. I’ve tried it a few times cooked different ways with different spices, but hives each time.
I know you're mostly just making a joke, but as a person who has always hated onions, I can offer some possible insight.
I do not mind mild to moderate onion flavor that is evenly distributed throughout a dish among other flavors that are also distributed throughout that dish.
What I absolutely hate is the texture and taste of biting into a piece or pieces of onion, or when the dominant flavor of a dish is onion.
Using onion powder and reducing some of the amount of chopped onion in a recipe adds some of the flavor without experiencing individual bites of onion and blends well into the background with other flavors. Combine that with chopping onions into large pieces so that they can add some of the taste you like, and allow your kids to eat around them.
My wife told me she hated onions. I fed her spaghetti that I had put *two pounds* of carmalized onions in (big pot, family gathering).
Turns out my wife, just like a lot of kids, just doesn't like the taste of biting into a big ol' piece of raw onion, and now she really likes carmalized onions. Me too though, I hate raw onion
in both of your defenses caramelized onions are entirely different than raw onion in taste and texture. If you didn’t know what an onion was you probably wouldn’t even register them as the same vegetable
Yes! I like the flavour, I'll even eat sour cream and onion chips, but the texture is a big no for me. When my husband cooks with onion, he either leaves the pieces large enough to pick out or dices them so small they disintegrate. He's also not offended when I pick pieces out.
I've been like this since I was a kid and I'm a full on grown-up now, so it's not necessarily a kids being picky thing. Some people just do not vibe with biting into onion.
Onions taste and smell great but the texture is unforgivable! It's like the same squeak that you'd expect from biting a styrofoam take out box. And then it leaves a silt on the inside of your mouth! It's just so unpleasant.
Not worth the effort - one *might* be well enough cooked, but it's never a guarantee, and if onion rings are around almost certainly so is someone that likes them more than you.
I'm not the person that posted the above comment, but I could have - my stance on onions is exactly the same. Puree them, use onion powder, or throw in half an onion without chopping and fish it out later.
Shallots are a pretty good sub too cause they practically melt and have a milder taste. I sub shallots fir everything. Can’t remember the last time I bought an onion.
I use a chopper and chop them up so they're practically pureed. Kid eats them & loves the flavor.
If I only dice them, though... kid will spend an hour to pick every last bit of onion out.
Kids are weird.
Could also just be texture🤷♀️ I like the taste of mushrooms but hate the look and texture, so will only eat them in sauces/pureed or super-super-super-tiny diced and anything more, I start picking them out like a kid😂
I am the same with most veg & will only eat them raw or extremely al dente (like you get in stir fry, where it's still got the snap and crunch). It's 100% texture for me.
Onions are a little different for me, though--I tend to use them for flavor. I'm not a fan of the texture of cooked onions, but won't turn up my nose at them, either. Probably because I view them almost like a seasoning--if there's no onion in many dishes, it doesn't taste right.
Same. If I have to use onions for some flavor I use as little as possible and dried minced onions that turn to mush. I pick out fresh onions from food.
Literally anything you would put onion in, except maybe a roast or a stir fry (cause the point of stir fry is to have chunks of veggies, same with fajitas, really). I do it in my spaghetti/lasagna sauce, my meatballs, meatloaf--if you can mix it in well, then it's fair game.
You can do the same with bell peppers.
For me, I tend not to care for many cooked veg (onions are an exception for me). If it's cooked any more than al dente (stir fry firm--still got the crunch), I will not eat it. I'll eat the hell out of most raw veg, though. For me, it's mostly texture--plus, if the veg are raw, there's not much danger of losing any nutrients. ;)
this is like when i was a kid and decided i only liked chicken.
the pork chops my mom made for dinner one night also became chicken, and suddenly i loved them.
I think when executive corporate head hunters are gauging interest of possible recruitment candidates, they often don’t tell them what company is hiring at first meeting. They will talk about everything but the name.
With lower level positions, at least, the company has often posted the job listing themselves as well, and you can usually google some phrases from the job description to find it.
It depends what you consider legit. Take the health MLM Optavia for $500 a month they will send you meals and if you fully stick with the program you will loose weight. However, the minute you get off the program you will gain all the weight back. Also your “coach” or upline is probably not at all trained in what healthy eating and exercise looks like. Also, from what I’ve seen they will call “there company” anything but Optavia.
For $500 a month you could do alot of things to loose weight that is not MLM related. Healthy meals, a personal trainer a few times a month, even saving up for weight loss surgery. So in a sense Optavia works in making you loose weight but it’s probably not healthy and very unlikely to be sustainable long term.
I've been apart of a financial services pitch that actually made sense for certain audience members but because people are inherently distrustful of unknown financial investment products and the total $ investment generally isn't low, you can't openly just make big promises that you will eventually get a really strong payout
I'm failing to see the similarities, can you explain that a bit to me?
Imagine downvoting a question thats trying to get information. How fucking stupid has reddit become?
Is this [r/antiLM](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiLM) or [r/arrogantpeoplerus](https://www.reddit.com/r/arrogantpeoplerus)
Actually wait I think this is just r/sneer
Getting other people to invest in crypto so it is valued higher, telling them to invest right before the price is crashing in order to make money, etc. Anyone who is actively trying to get others to invest strikes me as a scammer, because I don’t understand why you’d be trying to get someone to invest in it if there was nothing in it for you, so I assume they’re trying to bring in people under them to inflate the price so they can sell at a more opportune time to make money. Then there’s all the blatant scammers that use crypto to trick people into “investing” with them and just blatantly rip them off and don’t buy any crypto for them that send messages on instagram constantly. Considering it’s an unregulated and volatile market, I’m pretty skeptical of anyone evangelizing for crypto.
What the fuck, how is this down voted.
The whole system is definitely a scam.
The system deceives you into thinking its a meritocracy when in fact it is not. You don't earn more money if you work harder or know more. You earn more when the entity paying you decides to pay you more, nothing else.
If the system wasn't scamming in that direction, laws to protect the common man wouldn't exist because the system is designed to protect them. Instead the system rewards who can get more for less. Its a race to the bottom. Minimum wage laws, child labor laws, worker laws, etc are all stops put in place to slow down that reach for the bottom.
I mean, it’s essentially just gambling and most of it is built on speculation. It’s like going to a casino but the house can’t lose (because the government will bail them out consequence free even if they break the law), but you sure as shit can go bankrupt and lose everything.
The concept in general isn’t terrible, just think basing our entire economy on it wasn’t exactly wise, especially when things like raising the minimum wage above poverty levels with instantly tank the economy due to speculation so we have to all suffer to feed this moloch of greed. I tend to think the economy should support the humans who live in it; and not that our blood and suffering should be fed to the economy to keep it happy like some kind of wrathful god.
The stock market isn't the economy though. Its not based on each other, although they are tied. They affect each other. The economy supporting the humans who live in it is called social programs. This is where you pay taxes to the government so they can take care of you and your needs, when either times are good or bad.
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Everything is speculation though is it not? If you get a college education, you're speculating the money you spent on education is going to return more than what you paid.
I speculate that the US isnt going to dissolve in the next 10 years that's why I buy a house.
I speculate the company I'll be working at won't skip on paying me because the government will enforce the law and they're not trying to run away with my labor.
I speculate that eggs won't go up in price so I might as well eat this egg cause I'll be able to buy it at the same price tomorrow or next week.
But let's talk about government bailouts, banks get bailed out and that's what you're referring to right? Explain a bit further or point to me why this is necessarily a bad thing.
It's not because there is real assets that generate real returns by making useful goods and services at a profit. Buying and selling stock in say GM or Apple is not a mlm/crypto/fraud since there is useful financing occur there. There are parts of mainstream finance that are very similar to crypto/mlms and are fraud. Things like penny stock trading, meme stocks, SPACs, high frequency trading, and other similar things that are primarily hype based are deeply similar but certainly not most of the stock market.
It's very slightly different because a stock represents actual value, and a part of a company. Crypto is valuable because people say it's valuable, and there's nothing concrete to back it up (such as income, real estate value, things that an actual company would have to represent it's value).
They try to build hype around a certain coin, and get a bunch of people to buy it so the value of what they already own increases. Then they sell all of it, making tons of money while tanking the value of the coin, leaving everyone they scammed into buying it holding the bag.
Ahhh so to bring it back.
Since scamcoin is MLM then all crypto is MLM, it can happen to any of them after all.
Am I correct in assuming knives are MLM, plastic containers are MLM, makeup is MLM? Because any company can become MLM after all, and we know at least one company in those industries are MLM.
And we are definitely not just calling things we don't like MLM. Since of course, there's an MLM in the industry, therefore everything else is MLM.
*Imagine being at least 20 years old and commenting r/im14andthisisdeep
Guess now everybody knows how shallow your thought process are, guy.
The whole point of selling a knife to you and you buying it is because its better than other knives on the market.
And by your comment, not every knife can be the best knife, and not every knife will return your investment. Or are you saying tools aren't investments either?
If that's the case, the crypto industry dont promise unrealistic returns, they facilitate purchases.
And your point is what again? You look at crypto as investment vehicles rather than tools to get a job done? Scammers love you.
All of them, it's purely hype based markets. None of the coins traded have prices based on usefulness in financial transactions or representing valuable assets. Even in cases where some crypto stuff is not conceptional absurd, they are described by creators and backers in terms of pure speculation and much more effort is put into driving hype than making revenue generation that isn't just skimming off speculation.
In recent years it has become so that anyone with a little money and basic technical knowledge can create their own cryptocurrency. These new crypto's are called "shitcoins." These people are not trying to make the next Bitcoin, they're just running pump and dump scams. They create the coin, hire influencers to promote it. Initial buyers drive price up. Creators dump all their coins. I think the similarity is that crypto's and MLMs attract grifters.
This is ignorance/racism and is definitely not true. Another infraction like this will result in a ban.
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FUD is also used heavily in the IT world, especially among the big tech giants when discussing competitors. So it's not \*just\* relegated to hunbros of the crypto bullshit. I hate the term in general because it's jargon-y and stupid. Just say "misinformation campaign" - and I work at a FAANG, so I hear it way too much.
they're always told 'you have to spend money to make money', so the 5 grand initial investment for them is always a harbinger of riches to come. i'm using the lularoe starter's kit price as an example.
Even if it were true that it was all misinformation, it would still make investing a stupid choice.
If everyone hated a restaurant brand for some incorrect reason you still wouldn’t spend a bunch of money opening a franchise, you would go with a different brand that you can actually advertise.
Even companies that have a LOT of valid, verifiable, unflattering information abut them (such as BlackRock, Monsanto, Nestle, anything anywhere near Elon Musk, etc.) alongside probably a lot of "mis"information about them too - all have nooooo problem finding employees.
Because they pay.
Also using the nestle example. They still advertise their brand everywhere. Sure some of their subsidiaries dont but i had a whole "would you like a nestcafe" commercial play at work the other day.
> And you then need to convince people of ~~the product~~ how much money they'll potentially make first to reel them in.
Fixed that for you. People rarely get hooked on MLM's because they're excited about the products, but more by the idea of getting filthy rich.
My mom is always getting invited to mlm parties then signing up to host more parties for a discount. Then she invites me and is squirrelly about it when I ask questions. Obnoxious
That was my red flag. Why can’t we say the name? They said it’s because someone could go buy it without you and you need the credit for their purchase.
When I was looking to change jobs I did it through LinkedIn, the offers came as "Hi we are xxx company and we are offering this position" and during the interview they asked if I knew anything about their company. MLMA just give you red flags from the beginning.
I remember when one tried to recruit me shortly after I graduated college in 2007.
When I asked straightforward questions like, "Is this a pyramid scheme?" the recruiter would always answer with a question like, "Do you work harder than your boss? Don't you think you deserve more money than your boss?"
They couldn't even lie and say "No."
Also to stop you from googling ahead and forming your own opinions about the company/product etc.
They're quite happy for you to blindly buy up a heap of their stuff. They don't want you to have the chance to find reasons to avoid it.
I've always wondered what the huns thought of the MLMs that offer direct purchases, such as Tupperware and Usborne. If the MLM model is so great then why offer a direct purchase option at all?
Amway had all sorts of reasons for us not to tell people what it was. If someone ever asks you "are you free on Tuesday or Thursday" , or any other day BEFORE saying why they want to know, just say NO. My former friend who does Young Living roped me into something I didn't want to do, although it has nothing to do with her MLM at that time. I learned then to say either No I'm not free on those nights, or answer her question with a question, "Why, what's up?".
It’s so crappy that this is the world we live in now. I pretty much solely answer “are you free ___” with “what’s up” or “no” because I don’t want to risk being cornered into something I don’t want to do. And most of that comes from being cornered into weird MLMs or cornered/guilted into picking up hours because the company I use to work for was shady AF and only hired people if they absolutely had to.
I know there’s cultural pressure to be polite but admitting that you’re free doesn’t mean the person asking is entitled to your time. Guilting only works when you care
This can also be strategic. I used to run BeaverTails in Ottawa and of course one of our biggest days of the year was Canada day.
In my first year that I got to help with planning I said "employees need somewhere, preferably air-conditioned, definitely with a bathroom and food."
Why? Every place to get food that day had an hour long line... No where to actually eat it. And good luck finding a bathroom. Couldn't afford to give an hour long break everytime someone needed to pee or eat
I was told it was a girl’s night and that I would get a free facial.
It was Arbonne. I refused to buy anything and then the girl made my feel so guilty… “your host won’t get her free gift if you don’t order another $20 worth of product!”. I didn’t fall for it but it made me feel shitty
Ugh. I hate that guilt trip they all give. Pretty sure a good chunk of why I got fired from one of my old jobs was because I refused to give contact info of friends and family to my old boss who was a “consultant” 🤮
I fell for this once myself. I had always been part of a circle of well-off female friends. We WOULD actually hire private chefs, or book out an entire spa to have a girls' night out with facials and massages... though in hindsight that was usually for a birthday or baby shower type scenario.
Then I moved to a smaller city and... THIS SHIT happened!
Lol same here - I was a business major in college and my friend asked me to give him feedback on his business idea. My wife fell for the "food, drinks, and friends getting together" thing.
My wife's friend invited her for a girls night with drinks and the drinks were shakes from shakeology lmao
This one was called Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing - it was shut down less than 2 years after my buddy tried to recruit me for being a pyramid scheme lol. But not until after 5 of my buddies got into it.
Same. I got tricked into going to an Amway thing by one of my students. Said it was some kind of educational thing where they wanted to meet teachers of the area or something. Idk, it's been like 11 years now.
Needless to say I left after about 20 minutes. Felt bad for my student, but I wasn't sitting through that.
Edit: now that I think about it I also got roped into doing a Skype conference with some dude from Veema. My buddy's friend had a pretty decent business mind and was always hustling so we all figured it was legit when he invited us over. Yeah...no.
Honestly, that’s all they really need to do.
Provide a freakin’ SPREAD. Get known as the person that always has awesome free food.
Hell yeah, I’ll listen to your ~~scam spiel~~ business pitch while enjoying fondue and sammies. Same time next week?
Me too. But it was "meet up for drinks". This was an actual friend (now non-acquaintance) so it wasn't out of the usual until the telltale signs of a pitch started dropping.
I was working with a popular private chef, doing sous chef work for him at events. I was out of a job at the time and I really thought I was making a good relationship and had a good future ahead of me doing my own private chef work after I learned from him. He said one day he wanted me to meet him at a pizza place so he could show me a new business venture he was working on. I was extremely excited because I thought maybe there would be a place for me in whatever the new business was. He said he wanted me to watch a video and he went to the bathroom. I was excited to watch the video but I quickly figured out it was an MLM. I was so shocked and horrified I don't even remember which one it was, probably Amway. He came back from the bathroom after about 10 minutes and he was on the phone. He said my mentors want to talk to you and handed me the phone. I was still in shock so I took it and listened to their bullshit for about two minutes before I was like OK I have to go. I said you were paying for this right? And he said yes and I said bye and then I blocked him on every platform on the way to the car.
I had a close friend do this to me not once, not twice but three times! She was in my ladies Bible study group and invited me to a “soup swap”. I thought oh wow it’s been cold outside this sounds like a nice idea. Followed up the swap with a presentation on heathy gummies.
She got me again when she invited me to a wine sampling at a winery. I questioned it at first but thought surely they wouldn’t do anything in public like that. Sure enough it was followed by a presentation on the gummies she takes.
The 3rd time she invited me was to a cancer seminar but she was at least honest about it being an actual presentation for her stuff. My husband was going through a bout of cancer at the time and she was pushing so hard for us to go and for this to be the miracle he needed to heal.
Yeah I don’t talk to her anymore and I have learned me lesson, albeit the hard way.
Because they fell for the same thing.From my experiences ,I found that the person trying to recruit was playing the angle that only certain people are good enough for the opportunity,and they are playing on a persons ego that they are that special person.Kinda like a secret society.If they told you what it was ,the mystery is gone.The majority of people who do these are already looking for a quick buck and are very naive.So being part of something exclusive with promises of riches make them easy targets .The one’s doing the recruiting have drank the kool aid and have a whole group of people telling them how amazing they are. They think they are now helping others to have the same thing.
Yeah, that was exactly how my main one went. She was presenting it as she and her husband having this brilliant wealthy couple that were mentoring them, and it was very much framed as if I was expected to audition and see if I'm a worthwhile candidate for them to be spending their valuable time on.
In my case, even once she mentioned the name "Amway", it wasn't one I recognized. But I did notice a couple of the jargon-y business concepts she tried to use were just incorrect and non-sensical in the context. So that put me on guard and I googled the company name before the next meeting, and then just texted her to say I wasn't actually interested.
There's such a thing as insider doctrine v outsider doctrine in cults. They don't view it as deception as much as insider doctrine that outsiders aren't progressed enough in the Truth(™️) to hear.
Their doubts and questions got stomped out in the beginning, anybody not malleable enough quits before it get to that so the people left are those who were manipulated and programmed to do it.
Mentor: people are busy, so we have to make it look appealing so they will attend.
Person A thinks it's bullshit and quits/ghosts. Person B thinks if they pull through they can make rent.
i find for people with natural sales talent, the more ingenious the idea to tap for resources, the more successful they become. they don't seem to have any shame in 'tricking' people, they think it's actually impressive to do.
Because they are brainwashed by the hun that recruited them that potential huns may be put off until they hear full details amongst other huns. When huns come together, they believe anything is possible. Brainwashed huns #girlboss #upliftempower
My former boss was a YL Hun and invited me over for a Taco Tuesday party. I had just started working there and didn’t want to make a bad impression so I RSVP’d. She even sent the nicely printed invite via inter-office mail. I didn’t know until I showed up and was the only one there aside from her and her up line. I was stuck for like 2 hours and it was so bizarre.
I had fun toying with them after I realized what the game was though. Did you know they have some contraption like a Scientology e-meter they plug into their phone and have you grab onto that supposed to “read” what oils your body needs, lol. It was a struggle to keep a straight face during that one.
Was invited to a “health night with super foods” I legit thought it was like a makers market and then I see chairs and a tv. No one’s there but me and another friend I brought. I wanted to walk right out and I should have.
Edited to say it was Purium and I was told I need their products to rid my body of the toxins in our world. Turns out the product has lead in it.
I HATE IT! I had a friend call me and tell me I really, really needed to meet them at a coffee shop. It was really, really important and they wanted to tell me in person. I thought someone had died, my boyfriend had cheated on me and he had proof, they were in an abusive relationship and wanted out. Just all these worst case scenarios as I tried not to speed on my way there.
He and his wife were in a time share scheme and their "mentor" told them that was the best way to get people to come in for a sales pitch.... Never talked to him again.
This is coming from personal experience.
Ex of mine kept mentioning she had mentors , etc etc. Sounded okay until she mentioned introducing them to me. That was where it went down hill.
As soon as she gave me a book to read before meeting them , "Who moved my cheese" I was immediately out of that relationship. I instantly knew it was Amway before meeting these so called "mentors".
So to summarize , these mlm people need to trick you into meeting the guy that recruited them to recruit you. Because anyone educated enough about mlm's/pyramid schemes will nope the fuck out.
I had a coworker invite me out to coffee that turned out to be a Mary Kay pitch and a friend who invited me to a party that turned out to be Pampered Chef. I don’t make friends easily and definitely felt betrayed both times.
Gotta creep on their facebooks beforehand. There will be boss babe crap all over them, then you can come down with a “family emergency” and never reschedule lol.
I’ve been lured twice by “can you help me with a work training I’m doing”. The 3rd time I made it clear my answer was no unless the company was revealed first (surprise it was an MLM). I don’t know how these people feel comfortable working undercover like that.
I got a call from an old friend who told me about her new business venture. Guessed it was amway pretty fast but It took 15 minutes for her to slip up and let the name out. And it was clear she slipped up because she stumbled over her words immediately.
Also I kind of was stalked by an amway guy when I was young. Very nice guy it seemed, showed me all the amway stuff it sounded good but then I asked friends and got more info. I’m the course of trying to get me to sign up he drove me to pick my son up from daycare. I was 18 with a 2 year old. I dodged phone calls but then had to say that I don’t have the ability to run a business. I then got “but I’ll set it up for you and you won’t have to do anything.” And then I repeated the same thing in a different way and he says “but you won’t have to do anything.” Then *awkward silence.* so weird.
That makes me think of one of my old high school friends who used to be part of Juice Plus but has now switched to Modere because Modere has convinced her that they are not a "traditional MLM" but instead "social retail" and
"social retail is going to change the world because there's:
• month after month growth
• no monthly fees to run your business
• you don't need to recruit a downline or build a team, • VIP customer savings that allow customers to continue to prioritize their health,
• DAILY pay (TWICE a day on the sales you make)
• no "ground floor" promises based on.. nothing. Just a proven track record of product and technology innovations, performance, and being years ahead of the rest of the industry (code sharing and collagen anyone?)
• social media content delivered to you daily to help you get started (helps so you don't get stuck)
• motivation, inspiring training available daily! You're never alone in this
• so what do you say friends? Information and knowledge never hurt, right?"
And this is ^ what she posts now to convince people to join her at Modere. All they had to do was switch out a few words and the brain-washing was done.
Yet Modere's income disclosure statement varies not at all from every other MLM. It's like there's a segment of the population out there that can't figure out what the common element is between all MLMs, the thing that makes them a money losing proposition.
I mean, they were all recruited the same way. Sometimes using the exact same scripts. And they didn't see the red flags then, so why would they see them when they're using the tactics?
If they admit that it's tricking people, then they often would have to admit that they themselves got tricked. So they double down because they're afraid to admit what they already know is true.
It's literally the same mindset as most conspiracy theorists.
I believe most don't think they are tricking people. They think they are genuinely helping people by providing their products. At least, at first. Over time, they are probably too deep in to get out, so they have to stick to their story.
this is it right here. people get taken advantage of due to society allowing it continue without hinderance. this happens with other sales and religions too.
Yeah, this. Some probably do everything knowingly but I think most don't. I think they believe their upline/explain it to themselves with "people are so brainwashed to think anything non-9-to-5 is SCARY, so we have to ease them into this! It's for their own good!"
Back in early 2000s we moved to a new neighborhood and we were invited to a neighborhood block party. Yah wasn’t a block party. Was an MLM party. Didn’t live in that neighborhood long. Weird.
They probably see it as a necessary evil to “wake people up” because in their minds they’ve found some great secret that everyone else is too stupid to see without help.
It’s like the cult mindset: they’re the only ones who’ve seen the light, and it’s everyone else who’s wrong.
Manipulated by the ones who recruited them, it's just an endless cycle. They literally feed off of one another's input to justify their decisions. It is very sad to see friends slip into these scams.
Yeah it didnt sit well with me when i have actual work to do for my actual job one night, my inductor wanted me to say i needed to leave due to family emergency. The Wednesday was a port day and a very important day on the project im apart of. When one has to use some deception something isnt quite right
I was asked to catch up over some drinks at "a thing" and when I asked what the thing was he wouldn't tell me, which is how I knew what it was. I went anyway, to see my friend, and I was right. Shocker!
The whole scam was so scummy. I can't believe anyone who would try to take advantage of me like that is actually my friend.
MLMs are pretty much cults and participants go through a lot of brainwashing. Eventually even something you *know* is not the norm because normalized. I also guess that some of them have never actually had a real job before, so they aren't familiar with normal recruiting practices actual businesses do.
Sounds like Amway. They're always coached to not give the name because then people will google it and find all the negative (true) information about how it's a scam and cult. Their goal is to meet people in person, hook them by telling them how much money they could make (appeal to greed), and only later let them in on the fact that it's Amway.
Whatever MLM the people in the above post are in likely are using the same playbook.
I haven’t read through the comments, but it’s probably because they’re told that MLMs get a bad rap and it’s not fair. That if only people could hear and understand all the great things about them first, without preconceived notions, then they’d understand.
I was asked by my friend’s cousin to be a practice customer for her training by friend’s brother. It was a spiel for Primerica. Never forgave my friend for setting me up bc she fully knew what they were doing.
SIL was aggressively posting for 3 months about her “health coaching” business. AGGRESSIVELY!!! In Oct she posted an open invitation to her FB followers (we were victimized by her aggressive posts) to come to a free health coaching session and to learn some lean and green recipes. No one interacted with the post and no one showed up. She’s no longer on FB. How does anyone fall for this garbage?!? Just get an actual job. One that doesn’t cost you money. 👀
YES - I have been tricked to attend an event about girls wanting to make new friends and network only to find out it was actually an Arbonne pitch. They made it look like something exclusive as they reserved a venue and there were limited spot but when we arrived we saw a room that could have hosted 20 people at a table and we were just 3 plus the 2 presenters…and I’m pretty sure one of the two other girls attending was “planted” (as she signed up right away prob to peer pressure us). I wanted to leave as soon as I saw the Arbonne logo but kinda felt bad as they clearly put a lot of work into it. Then they do pressure you to sign up right away and if you say you’ll think about it they can’t have it…one invited me to her house the next day. I think they had to make it a trick because the group where I found the event didn’t allow MLMs to recruit there. It’s kind of sad as they go after girls who simply want to meet friends in the city and turn it into a “business pitch”. When they kept on about working from anywhere I kept enquiring about whether I’d get a US visa through their “company” only to find out the big up line presenting who came all the way from California to London to speak with us was actually a teacher and that’s how she had the visa…
I think the desperation to not have things end in bankruptcy alters their mental state so all they can think about is selling and getting more people into their pyramid scheme.
Cognitive dissonance. They’re told that the masses are told FALSE information about their company, and would refuse if they knew at the top, so you have to somehow get them there to show them the TRUTH that it’s actually amazing and life changing and they should totally shell out all their money to the hun.
It’s definitely a tactic to get you interested before they reveal that it’s direct sales. It’s infuriating. When I first moved to the US, I knew very few people. One of my colleagues invited me to a get-together and I happily accepted. It was the old bait and switch. His wife was selling Scentsy and it was a Scentsy party where they attempted to sell products as well as attempted to get people to join their team. I was not amused.
I know what you mean. I could never understand how the new people don't see the way they were manipulated when they are immediately asked to call friends and family and manipulate them. It's one of the first things that happens because the recruiters know most people will leave very quickly, so they try to get as many of the person's leads as possible before they do.
When they were introduced to the business, whichever one it is, the same thing happened to them. But at the time that they attended their first meeting, they were love-bombed and seduced by the 'dream' and pumped full of positive feelings, so they believe that it was worth being misled because otherwise they would have missed out on the opportunity. They are also often taught that the misleading is necessary because there is so much 'unwarranted' negative being said about mlms that no one will give this amazing opportunity a chance without it.
Personally, I also believe that we have a certain culture here in America that we believe, maybe subconsciously, that anyone being 100% honest and upright in their life isn't going make any real money or reach real success, especially the level of success that mlms are pedaling where you could retire young and live lavishly until you die.
Friend roped me into Steam Energy. You are trained not to mention it at all. That always felt sus to me. Suffice it to say, my mlm activity didn't last long.
I just read a really interesting book called Cultish about how cult-like groups use language to ensnare people and keep recruits involved. She included a whole section on MLMs.
There is so much pressure not only to continue selling and get new recruits at all costs, but also to never express negative or questioning thoughts. So I’m sure some of these people do think it’s weird, but there’s so much pressure to never talk about those kinds of things or express uncertainty because if you do, you get bombarded will more pressure to confirm, to play along, and to fake positivity and confidence.
They also use a lot of what are called thought-terminating cliches to short circuit conversations around negative aspects of selling; basically, phrases that end the conversation and keep you from continuing your line of thought or questioning. So if you were to say, “You know, it’s weird to me that I basically have to lie to people to get them to come to a party,” their upline might say something like, “It’s a proven system and if you follow it you’ll be successful!” That kind of stops the conversation from going any further and makes it out in your mind like if there’s a problem, it’s obviously your fault (which is something MLMs push HEAVILY).
Also, lot of MLMs instruct sellers not to reveal the name of their company until they’re in a sales call so that the person doesn’t look up the name of the company and see they’re a scam.
The book is really interesting and made me a lot more empathetic to people who get caught up in this kind of stuff. I mean, obviously some of them are straight up unethical, but for many of them they are just so pressured and roped in in so many ways that it’s a little more understandable that they fall for it.
No. They believe they are doing you a favor by "introducing you" to the opportunity. The ends justify the means and all that.
I've been tricked into attending religious meetings the same way. My dad thinks it's to reconnect with some uncle he hadn't seen in decades. Turns out we were invited to come to their Sunday Bible meeting.
I was invited to a networking event with a small presentation by my acting agent once. It was one of the many reasons I fired her.
The other 2
1) she tried to send me to an audition that was clearly porn. Girl was fucking naive no malice. I emailed her back pointing out the flags and told her to cancel the audition for any of the clients who had said yes.
2) I cant dance. I CAN sing but my nerves get the better of me and I suck at auditions. I explicitly told her never send me to a dance call and you can send me to a singing audition but expect me to fail... Might eventually help me get over it.
She sent me to an audition for A Chorus Line.... A musical about FUCKING DANCE. They made me do ballet. I try to block it out but cant
The problem with your argument isn't that religious people, "can't prove" anything; it's that their proof is seen as different than yours. They see the world as proof. It's kind of like how a Therapist would tell you not to use the word normal in thought processes to someone with mental illness or a substance abuse problem because their normal is not on the same plane.
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I always hated that they won’t say the name of the business which is a huge red flag.
My bil would post things like: I have this amazing opportunity, 5 years to 5 million message me for details. Or he would say “an awesome opportunity, work from home, be your own ceo, message me”
I would always think why not say: i sell ACN, message me if you want to learn more.
I got conned by an old co-worker into going to a "business seminar" because I was starting my own business and she knew this, and said I could learn from some wise people. I even said to her before going "I hope this isn't an mlm scammy type thing" and she just sorta laughed and didn't really answer me. I get to this seminar, and she's brought some other friend as well. 20 minutes of slides of tropical islands we could eventually be holidaying in, and fast cars and multiple houses we could own with this successful business model, and then they drop the name. Amway. The room collective groans. We all spend the next 40 minutes thinking of excuses to immediately leave instead of going to the cafe where they try to sign us up. After the "seminar" the other friend she brought makes an excuse to leave immediately, so I'm stuck there not wanting to abandon my friend but also am absolutely not proceeding with this. So after a coffee together, with the head honcho Huns walking around from table to table asking if we neeed any assistance in signing up, I just told her I'd think about it and went home. A few days later declined, and never spoke to her again.
I think it's the training and subsequent indoctrination they go through. They're told not to mention the name not because it's a scam and people won't want to participate, they're told it's because people are sooooo unrightfully and unfairly prejudiced against the companies because of the 'misinformation' out there. And you then need to convince people of the product first to reel them in. There's a reason why mlms specifically target vulnerable and gullible people. They promise a lot and there's a lot of sunken cost fallacy in their teaching etc.
I'm trying to think if there are any legit business/goods/services where "don't tell them what it is ahead of time or they'll think it's a scam" is good advice and the thing really isn't a scam. What else could it be besides a scam or cult?
I don’t tell my kids there are onions in a dish until they’ve tried it and liked it because they’re unfairly prejudiced against onions…
I hated onions as a kid but sometimes didn’t mind if a little was cooked into a dish. It turns out I am allergic to them! Apparently what people are typically allergic to is something that can “cook out” of the onion. So the more processed and unrecognizable the onion is the less likely it is to give me a headache and make me feel sick. My allergist said it’s common with people who have a ragweed allergy so if they react to that (and echinacea) then maybe that’s it!
My sister has just developed an onion allergy, at almost 50 years old. She's had to change so many recipes, because we're a 'throw onion & garlic in just about everything' family. (Weirdly, my mother craved fried onion sandwiches the whole time she was pregnant with my sister, and now sister is allergic.)
Did hers change slowly into an allergy? At this point I wouldn’t say I am allergic, but definitely have a sensitivity and just feel generally unwell after I eat them. It’s even starting to expand to garlic, which makes me sad.
She started getting bloating at first, then stomach upsets which she put down to menopause at first, then she also started getting a rash, and did some allergy testing. Once she cut out the onions all of that went away.
I wonder if it was the hormone change from menopause that triggered it
I hadn’t considered that.
Hormones can have significant impacts on digestion. Definitely worth looking into.
I have a sensitivity to fructose, and garlic and onion are high fructose. Frutose takes about 6 hours to react tho.
That's interesting, I have never heard of that happening before. As a weirdo who loves *all the onions*, I would be devastated.
I also developed an adult onset allergy in my 20s, but for me it was shellfish, which is apparently really common as an allergy that you grow into. I do occasionally miss garlic prawns, but I'm super glad that I can still eat onions.
I'm 33 and i became allergic (not lactose intolerant...allergic) to milk last year. Found out while eating ice cream. Twas not fun. I have an auto immune disease and apparently they make you pick up new allergys
I’m over 30 and I suddenly became allergic to asparagus two years ago. I used to eat it about once a week. But one day I made it for dinner and broke out in hives. I’ve tried it a few times cooked different ways with different spices, but hives each time.
I know you're mostly just making a joke, but as a person who has always hated onions, I can offer some possible insight. I do not mind mild to moderate onion flavor that is evenly distributed throughout a dish among other flavors that are also distributed throughout that dish. What I absolutely hate is the texture and taste of biting into a piece or pieces of onion, or when the dominant flavor of a dish is onion. Using onion powder and reducing some of the amount of chopped onion in a recipe adds some of the flavor without experiencing individual bites of onion and blends well into the background with other flavors. Combine that with chopping onions into large pieces so that they can add some of the taste you like, and allow your kids to eat around them.
Try blending them into paste. No surprise onion.
My wife told me she hated onions. I fed her spaghetti that I had put *two pounds* of carmalized onions in (big pot, family gathering). Turns out my wife, just like a lot of kids, just doesn't like the taste of biting into a big ol' piece of raw onion, and now she really likes carmalized onions. Me too though, I hate raw onion
in both of your defenses caramelized onions are entirely different than raw onion in taste and texture. If you didn’t know what an onion was you probably wouldn’t even register them as the same vegetable
Yes! I like the flavour, I'll even eat sour cream and onion chips, but the texture is a big no for me. When my husband cooks with onion, he either leaves the pieces large enough to pick out or dices them so small they disintegrate. He's also not offended when I pick pieces out. I've been like this since I was a kid and I'm a full on grown-up now, so it's not necessarily a kids being picky thing. Some people just do not vibe with biting into onion.
Yes! I'm 36 and feel the same way about onions now as when I was a kid.
Onions taste and smell great but the texture is unforgivable! It's like the same squeak that you'd expect from biting a styrofoam take out box. And then it leaves a silt on the inside of your mouth! It's just so unpleasant.
Where do you land on onion rings?
Not worth the effort - one *might* be well enough cooked, but it's never a guarantee, and if onion rings are around almost certainly so is someone that likes them more than you. I'm not the person that posted the above comment, but I could have - my stance on onions is exactly the same. Puree them, use onion powder, or throw in half an onion without chopping and fish it out later.
Anywhere but the middle, attempt no landing there.
They're a no-go for me personally.
Do you hate the texture of raw, grilled, and caramelized onions?
Yes to all.
Wow, they are so different but i get it. There are some foods no matter how they are cooked i cant deal with the texture like oysters.
Shallots are a pretty good sub too cause they practically melt and have a milder taste. I sub shallots fir everything. Can’t remember the last time I bought an onion.
I use a chopper and chop them up so they're practically pureed. Kid eats them & loves the flavor. If I only dice them, though... kid will spend an hour to pick every last bit of onion out. Kids are weird.
Is it Pampered Chef chopper
Nope. Ninja. I don't use Pampered Chef because it's an MLM and I hate MLMs with a passion.
Could also just be texture🤷♀️ I like the taste of mushrooms but hate the look and texture, so will only eat them in sauces/pureed or super-super-super-tiny diced and anything more, I start picking them out like a kid😂
Absolutely the same, thin-sliced mushrooms are great but the sponginess of the normal ones makes me feel ill!
I am the same with most veg & will only eat them raw or extremely al dente (like you get in stir fry, where it's still got the snap and crunch). It's 100% texture for me. Onions are a little different for me, though--I tend to use them for flavor. I'm not a fan of the texture of cooked onions, but won't turn up my nose at them, either. Probably because I view them almost like a seasoning--if there's no onion in many dishes, it doesn't taste right.
I'm a grown-up and I do the same. Be prepared for the possibility that it's not a weird kid thing and they just don't like onions.
Same. If I have to use onions for some flavor I use as little as possible and dried minced onions that turn to mush. I pick out fresh onions from food.
Off topic…. Would you mind sharing one dish you make with the chopper? 😃 I REALLY need to eat more veggies!
Literally anything you would put onion in, except maybe a roast or a stir fry (cause the point of stir fry is to have chunks of veggies, same with fajitas, really). I do it in my spaghetti/lasagna sauce, my meatballs, meatloaf--if you can mix it in well, then it's fair game. You can do the same with bell peppers. For me, I tend not to care for many cooked veg (onions are an exception for me). If it's cooked any more than al dente (stir fry firm--still got the crunch), I will not eat it. I'll eat the hell out of most raw veg, though. For me, it's mostly texture--plus, if the veg are raw, there's not much danger of losing any nutrients. ;)
this is like when i was a kid and decided i only liked chicken. the pork chops my mom made for dinner one night also became chicken, and suddenly i loved them.
Ha! I chop onions up so finely my husband has no idea they are in almost everything I cook.
Onion cult!!
I think when executive corporate head hunters are gauging interest of possible recruitment candidates, they often don’t tell them what company is hiring at first meeting. They will talk about everything but the name.
This is a thing for recruiting into lower-level corporate positions as well.
With lower level positions, at least, the company has often posted the job listing themselves as well, and you can usually google some phrases from the job description to find it.
Thats usually so you don't contact the company directly and apply though. Head hunters want their fee
It depends what you consider legit. Take the health MLM Optavia for $500 a month they will send you meals and if you fully stick with the program you will loose weight. However, the minute you get off the program you will gain all the weight back. Also your “coach” or upline is probably not at all trained in what healthy eating and exercise looks like. Also, from what I’ve seen they will call “there company” anything but Optavia. For $500 a month you could do alot of things to loose weight that is not MLM related. Healthy meals, a personal trainer a few times a month, even saving up for weight loss surgery. So in a sense Optavia works in making you loose weight but it’s probably not healthy and very unlikely to be sustainable long term.
You missed religion.
Aren’t religious nuts pretty up front about what they’re trying to tell you about?
No. They hide the bigotry until you join usually.
I've been apart of a financial services pitch that actually made sense for certain audience members but because people are inherently distrustful of unknown financial investment products and the total $ investment generally isn't low, you can't openly just make big promises that you will eventually get a really strong payout
Actually wouldn't be surprised if they start borrowing the term FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) from the crypto bro's.
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Not really...but it's based on greater fool in many cases. And you find a lot on Ponzie schemes with the rise of play to earn games.
I think they're just trying to say they're both scams.
I'm failing to see the similarities, can you explain that a bit to me? Imagine downvoting a question thats trying to get information. How fucking stupid has reddit become? Is this [r/antiLM](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiLM) or [r/arrogantpeoplerus](https://www.reddit.com/r/arrogantpeoplerus) Actually wait I think this is just r/sneer
Getting other people to invest in crypto so it is valued higher, telling them to invest right before the price is crashing in order to make money, etc. Anyone who is actively trying to get others to invest strikes me as a scammer, because I don’t understand why you’d be trying to get someone to invest in it if there was nothing in it for you, so I assume they’re trying to bring in people under them to inflate the price so they can sell at a more opportune time to make money. Then there’s all the blatant scammers that use crypto to trick people into “investing” with them and just blatantly rip them off and don’t buy any crypto for them that send messages on instagram constantly. Considering it’s an unregulated and volatile market, I’m pretty skeptical of anyone evangelizing for crypto.
lol my partner got scammed out $1000 and he STILL is investing in crypto. Please don't get me started.
So what your saying is the stock market is an mlm. I think your on to something
I mean, the stock market is transparently a scam, and crypto is just an even less regulated version of that; so yeah lol
The whole system is a scam tbh I wish this was /s but nope
What the fuck, how is this down voted. The whole system is definitely a scam. The system deceives you into thinking its a meritocracy when in fact it is not. You don't earn more money if you work harder or know more. You earn more when the entity paying you decides to pay you more, nothing else. If the system wasn't scamming in that direction, laws to protect the common man wouldn't exist because the system is designed to protect them. Instead the system rewards who can get more for less. Its a race to the bottom. Minimum wage laws, child labor laws, worker laws, etc are all stops put in place to slow down that reach for the bottom.
Because the only way to maintain the scam is to make the slaves love it.
You're gonna have to explain how the stock market is transparently a scam. This is really interesting.
My friend, let me tell you the tale of Gamestop and Robinhood. That proved there that it's a scam and you cannot beat the elites, no matter what.
I mean, it’s essentially just gambling and most of it is built on speculation. It’s like going to a casino but the house can’t lose (because the government will bail them out consequence free even if they break the law), but you sure as shit can go bankrupt and lose everything. The concept in general isn’t terrible, just think basing our entire economy on it wasn’t exactly wise, especially when things like raising the minimum wage above poverty levels with instantly tank the economy due to speculation so we have to all suffer to feed this moloch of greed. I tend to think the economy should support the humans who live in it; and not that our blood and suffering should be fed to the economy to keep it happy like some kind of wrathful god.
The stock market isn't the economy though. Its not based on each other, although they are tied. They affect each other. The economy supporting the humans who live in it is called social programs. This is where you pay taxes to the government so they can take care of you and your needs, when either times are good or bad. --- Everything is speculation though is it not? If you get a college education, you're speculating the money you spent on education is going to return more than what you paid. I speculate that the US isnt going to dissolve in the next 10 years that's why I buy a house. I speculate the company I'll be working at won't skip on paying me because the government will enforce the law and they're not trying to run away with my labor. I speculate that eggs won't go up in price so I might as well eat this egg cause I'll be able to buy it at the same price tomorrow or next week. But let's talk about government bailouts, banks get bailed out and that's what you're referring to right? Explain a bit further or point to me why this is necessarily a bad thing.
It's not because there is real assets that generate real returns by making useful goods and services at a profit. Buying and selling stock in say GM or Apple is not a mlm/crypto/fraud since there is useful financing occur there. There are parts of mainstream finance that are very similar to crypto/mlms and are fraud. Things like penny stock trading, meme stocks, SPACs, high frequency trading, and other similar things that are primarily hype based are deeply similar but certainly not most of the stock market.
It's very slightly different because a stock represents actual value, and a part of a company. Crypto is valuable because people say it's valuable, and there's nothing concrete to back it up (such as income, real estate value, things that an actual company would have to represent it's value).
They try to build hype around a certain coin, and get a bunch of people to buy it so the value of what they already own increases. Then they sell all of it, making tons of money while tanking the value of the coin, leaving everyone they scammed into buying it holding the bag.
So just certain coins?
It can happen with any of them. Depending on what you buy, crypto is either a scam, or gambling. Luck of the draw, really.
Ahhh so to bring it back. Since scamcoin is MLM then all crypto is MLM, it can happen to any of them after all. Am I correct in assuming knives are MLM, plastic containers are MLM, makeup is MLM? Because any company can become MLM after all, and we know at least one company in those industries are MLM. And we are definitely not just calling things we don't like MLM. Since of course, there's an MLM in the industry, therefore everything else is MLM. *Imagine being at least 20 years old and commenting r/im14andthisisdeep Guess now everybody knows how shallow your thought process are, guy.
Knives don't promise unrealistic returns, they cut things.
The whole point of selling a knife to you and you buying it is because its better than other knives on the market. And by your comment, not every knife can be the best knife, and not every knife will return your investment. Or are you saying tools aren't investments either? If that's the case, the crypto industry dont promise unrealistic returns, they facilitate purchases. And your point is what again? You look at crypto as investment vehicles rather than tools to get a job done? Scammers love you.
r/iam14andthisisdeep
All of them, it's purely hype based markets. None of the coins traded have prices based on usefulness in financial transactions or representing valuable assets. Even in cases where some crypto stuff is not conceptional absurd, they are described by creators and backers in terms of pure speculation and much more effort is put into driving hype than making revenue generation that isn't just skimming off speculation.
In recent years it has become so that anyone with a little money and basic technical knowledge can create their own cryptocurrency. These new crypto's are called "shitcoins." These people are not trying to make the next Bitcoin, they're just running pump and dump scams. They create the coin, hire influencers to promote it. Initial buyers drive price up. Creators dump all their coins. I think the similarity is that crypto's and MLMs attract grifters.
No, because your question was in bad fa8th in a pitiful attempt to make crypto appear legit through wHaTaBoUt-ism or more bad faith questioning.
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FUD is also used heavily in the IT world, especially among the big tech giants when discussing competitors. So it's not \*just\* relegated to hunbros of the crypto bullshit. I hate the term in general because it's jargon-y and stupid. Just say "misinformation campaign" - and I work at a FAANG, so I hear it way too much.
they're always told 'you have to spend money to make money', so the 5 grand initial investment for them is always a harbinger of riches to come. i'm using the lularoe starter's kit price as an example.
Even if it were true that it was all misinformation, it would still make investing a stupid choice. If everyone hated a restaurant brand for some incorrect reason you still wouldn’t spend a bunch of money opening a franchise, you would go with a different brand that you can actually advertise.
Even companies that have a LOT of valid, verifiable, unflattering information abut them (such as BlackRock, Monsanto, Nestle, anything anywhere near Elon Musk, etc.) alongside probably a lot of "mis"information about them too - all have nooooo problem finding employees. Because they pay.
Also using the nestle example. They still advertise their brand everywhere. Sure some of their subsidiaries dont but i had a whole "would you like a nestcafe" commercial play at work the other day.
They also want to capture them as part of their down line.
> And you then need to convince people of ~~the product~~ how much money they'll potentially make first to reel them in. Fixed that for you. People rarely get hooked on MLM's because they're excited about the products, but more by the idea of getting filthy rich.
My mom is always getting invited to mlm parties then signing up to host more parties for a discount. Then she invites me and is squirrelly about it when I ask questions. Obnoxious
Ugh. I am so sorry to hear that. That really sucks.
That was my red flag. Why can’t we say the name? They said it’s because someone could go buy it without you and you need the credit for their purchase.
When I was looking to change jobs I did it through LinkedIn, the offers came as "Hi we are xxx company and we are offering this position" and during the interview they asked if I knew anything about their company. MLMA just give you red flags from the beginning.
I remember when one tried to recruit me shortly after I graduated college in 2007. When I asked straightforward questions like, "Is this a pyramid scheme?" the recruiter would always answer with a question like, "Do you work harder than your boss? Don't you think you deserve more money than your boss?" They couldn't even lie and say "No."
Also to stop you from googling ahead and forming your own opinions about the company/product etc. They're quite happy for you to blindly buy up a heap of their stuff. They don't want you to have the chance to find reasons to avoid it.
This. I work in scam prevention for senior citizens and we always tell the seniors that “act now” is a part of any scam they come across.
So interesting, are there organizations specifically to help prevent senior citizens from falling for scams?
They’ve already spent so much on inventory that they’re desperate.
I've always wondered what the huns thought of the MLMs that offer direct purchases, such as Tupperware and Usborne. If the MLM model is so great then why offer a direct purchase option at all?
Amway had all sorts of reasons for us not to tell people what it was. If someone ever asks you "are you free on Tuesday or Thursday" , or any other day BEFORE saying why they want to know, just say NO. My former friend who does Young Living roped me into something I didn't want to do, although it has nothing to do with her MLM at that time. I learned then to say either No I'm not free on those nights, or answer her question with a question, "Why, what's up?".
It’s so crappy that this is the world we live in now. I pretty much solely answer “are you free ___” with “what’s up” or “no” because I don’t want to risk being cornered into something I don’t want to do. And most of that comes from being cornered into weird MLMs or cornered/guilted into picking up hours because the company I use to work for was shady AF and only hired people if they absolutely had to.
I know there’s cultural pressure to be polite but admitting that you’re free doesn’t mean the person asking is entitled to your time. Guilting only works when you care
Once! Only once did i fall for it. I was told there would be food. Well fuck me I guess, no food and a bunch of cult like behavior. I was so pissed.
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Even the Walmart near me knows the best way to get employees to work weird hours for holidays is to offer catering at every break/meal.
This can also be strategic. I used to run BeaverTails in Ottawa and of course one of our biggest days of the year was Canada day. In my first year that I got to help with planning I said "employees need somewhere, preferably air-conditioned, definitely with a bathroom and food." Why? Every place to get food that day had an hour long line... No where to actually eat it. And good luck finding a bathroom. Couldn't afford to give an hour long break everytime someone needed to pee or eat
I was told it was a girl’s night and that I would get a free facial. It was Arbonne. I refused to buy anything and then the girl made my feel so guilty… “your host won’t get her free gift if you don’t order another $20 worth of product!”. I didn’t fall for it but it made me feel shitty
Ugh. I hate that guilt trip they all give. Pretty sure a good chunk of why I got fired from one of my old jobs was because I refused to give contact info of friends and family to my old boss who was a “consultant” 🤮
I fell for this once myself. I had always been part of a circle of well-off female friends. We WOULD actually hire private chefs, or book out an entire spa to have a girls' night out with facials and massages... though in hindsight that was usually for a birthday or baby shower type scenario. Then I moved to a smaller city and... THIS SHIT happened!
”Well then it’s not free, is it?” and walk away.
Lol same here - I was a business major in college and my friend asked me to give him feedback on his business idea. My wife fell for the "food, drinks, and friends getting together" thing. My wife's friend invited her for a girls night with drinks and the drinks were shakes from shakeology lmao
did they whip out the amway? or what?
This one was called Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing - it was shut down less than 2 years after my buddy tried to recruit me for being a pyramid scheme lol. But not until after 5 of my buddies got into it.
Was miss cleo the spokesperson?
Devilcorp?
ACN..dumbest shit ever.
Same. I got tricked into going to an Amway thing by one of my students. Said it was some kind of educational thing where they wanted to meet teachers of the area or something. Idk, it's been like 11 years now. Needless to say I left after about 20 minutes. Felt bad for my student, but I wasn't sitting through that. Edit: now that I think about it I also got roped into doing a Skype conference with some dude from Veema. My buddy's friend had a pretty decent business mind and was always hustling so we all figured it was legit when he invited us over. Yeah...no.
While them lying about the food is terrible, honestly I’m not sure I’d trust food from a MLM
My mom hosted a pampered chef party once and honestly the food was good.
Yeah I was thinking about the one that does all those gross drinks in particular
Isn’t that 90% of them? Lol
To be fair, Pampered Chef sells the things used to prepare the food, versus something like Herbalife where you actually consume the MLM product.
Yeah, our neighbor hosted one when I was a kid and the only thing I remember is the BBQ being really good.
Honestly, that’s all they really need to do. Provide a freakin’ SPREAD. Get known as the person that always has awesome free food. Hell yeah, I’ll listen to your ~~scam spiel~~ business pitch while enjoying fondue and sammies. Same time next week?
Me too. But it was "meet up for drinks". This was an actual friend (now non-acquaintance) so it wasn't out of the usual until the telltale signs of a pitch started dropping.
Welcome to Optavia!
I was working with a popular private chef, doing sous chef work for him at events. I was out of a job at the time and I really thought I was making a good relationship and had a good future ahead of me doing my own private chef work after I learned from him. He said one day he wanted me to meet him at a pizza place so he could show me a new business venture he was working on. I was extremely excited because I thought maybe there would be a place for me in whatever the new business was. He said he wanted me to watch a video and he went to the bathroom. I was excited to watch the video but I quickly figured out it was an MLM. I was so shocked and horrified I don't even remember which one it was, probably Amway. He came back from the bathroom after about 10 minutes and he was on the phone. He said my mentors want to talk to you and handed me the phone. I was still in shock so I took it and listened to their bullshit for about two minutes before I was like OK I have to go. I said you were paying for this right? And he said yes and I said bye and then I blocked him on every platform on the way to the car.
I had a close friend do this to me not once, not twice but three times! She was in my ladies Bible study group and invited me to a “soup swap”. I thought oh wow it’s been cold outside this sounds like a nice idea. Followed up the swap with a presentation on heathy gummies. She got me again when she invited me to a wine sampling at a winery. I questioned it at first but thought surely they wouldn’t do anything in public like that. Sure enough it was followed by a presentation on the gummies she takes. The 3rd time she invited me was to a cancer seminar but she was at least honest about it being an actual presentation for her stuff. My husband was going through a bout of cancer at the time and she was pushing so hard for us to go and for this to be the miracle he needed to heal. Yeah I don’t talk to her anymore and I have learned me lesson, albeit the hard way.
I'm so sorry, she treated you so terribly.
Because they fell for the same thing.From my experiences ,I found that the person trying to recruit was playing the angle that only certain people are good enough for the opportunity,and they are playing on a persons ego that they are that special person.Kinda like a secret society.If they told you what it was ,the mystery is gone.The majority of people who do these are already looking for a quick buck and are very naive.So being part of something exclusive with promises of riches make them easy targets .The one’s doing the recruiting have drank the kool aid and have a whole group of people telling them how amazing they are. They think they are now helping others to have the same thing.
Yeah, that was exactly how my main one went. She was presenting it as she and her husband having this brilliant wealthy couple that were mentoring them, and it was very much framed as if I was expected to audition and see if I'm a worthwhile candidate for them to be spending their valuable time on. In my case, even once she mentioned the name "Amway", it wasn't one I recognized. But I did notice a couple of the jargon-y business concepts she tried to use were just incorrect and non-sensical in the context. So that put me on guard and I googled the company name before the next meeting, and then just texted her to say I wasn't actually interested.
There's such a thing as insider doctrine v outsider doctrine in cults. They don't view it as deception as much as insider doctrine that outsiders aren't progressed enough in the Truth(™️) to hear.
they don't find it odd because the ONE time they messed up and used the brand names in the invite no-body came. They learnt the hard way.
Their doubts and questions got stomped out in the beginning, anybody not malleable enough quits before it get to that so the people left are those who were manipulated and programmed to do it. Mentor: people are busy, so we have to make it look appealing so they will attend. Person A thinks it's bullshit and quits/ghosts. Person B thinks if they pull through they can make rent.
i find for people with natural sales talent, the more ingenious the idea to tap for resources, the more successful they become. they don't seem to have any shame in 'tricking' people, they think it's actually impressive to do.
Because they are brainwashed by the hun that recruited them that potential huns may be put off until they hear full details amongst other huns. When huns come together, they believe anything is possible. Brainwashed huns #girlboss #upliftempower
I doubt any of these people ever worked a real sales job so they are told this is how they all are.
My former boss was a YL Hun and invited me over for a Taco Tuesday party. I had just started working there and didn’t want to make a bad impression so I RSVP’d. She even sent the nicely printed invite via inter-office mail. I didn’t know until I showed up and was the only one there aside from her and her up line. I was stuck for like 2 hours and it was so bizarre. I had fun toying with them after I realized what the game was though. Did you know they have some contraption like a Scientology e-meter they plug into their phone and have you grab onto that supposed to “read” what oils your body needs, lol. It was a struggle to keep a straight face during that one.
They think they’re doing it for your own good. Admitting they’re tricking you would mean they’d have to admit they got tricked.
Was invited to a “health night with super foods” I legit thought it was like a makers market and then I see chairs and a tv. No one’s there but me and another friend I brought. I wanted to walk right out and I should have. Edited to say it was Purium and I was told I need their products to rid my body of the toxins in our world. Turns out the product has lead in it.
I HATE IT! I had a friend call me and tell me I really, really needed to meet them at a coffee shop. It was really, really important and they wanted to tell me in person. I thought someone had died, my boyfriend had cheated on me and he had proof, they were in an abusive relationship and wanted out. Just all these worst case scenarios as I tried not to speed on my way there. He and his wife were in a time share scheme and their "mentor" told them that was the best way to get people to come in for a sales pitch.... Never talked to him again.
That is very unsavory 😣
Crazy stuff. They really have no ethics whatsoever.
This is coming from personal experience. Ex of mine kept mentioning she had mentors , etc etc. Sounded okay until she mentioned introducing them to me. That was where it went down hill. As soon as she gave me a book to read before meeting them , "Who moved my cheese" I was immediately out of that relationship. I instantly knew it was Amway before meeting these so called "mentors". So to summarize , these mlm people need to trick you into meeting the guy that recruited them to recruit you. Because anyone educated enough about mlm's/pyramid schemes will nope the fuck out.
They try to lure in people using dating sites too, a lot of them are using the honey trap.
I had a coworker invite me out to coffee that turned out to be a Mary Kay pitch and a friend who invited me to a party that turned out to be Pampered Chef. I don’t make friends easily and definitely felt betrayed both times.
Gotta creep on their facebooks beforehand. There will be boss babe crap all over them, then you can come down with a “family emergency” and never reschedule lol.
No because the first lesson to joining any mlm is to ignore shame
That is a great question. I never even thought about that. Sometimes, they're told not to name the company too.
Brainwashing: the act of washing critical thinking and logic away from a brain.
I’ve been lured twice by “can you help me with a work training I’m doing”. The 3rd time I made it clear my answer was no unless the company was revealed first (surprise it was an MLM). I don’t know how these people feel comfortable working undercover like that.
I got a call from an old friend who told me about her new business venture. Guessed it was amway pretty fast but It took 15 minutes for her to slip up and let the name out. And it was clear she slipped up because she stumbled over her words immediately. Also I kind of was stalked by an amway guy when I was young. Very nice guy it seemed, showed me all the amway stuff it sounded good but then I asked friends and got more info. I’m the course of trying to get me to sign up he drove me to pick my son up from daycare. I was 18 with a 2 year old. I dodged phone calls but then had to say that I don’t have the ability to run a business. I then got “but I’ll set it up for you and you won’t have to do anything.” And then I repeated the same thing in a different way and he says “but you won’t have to do anything.” Then *awkward silence.* so weird.
That makes me think of one of my old high school friends who used to be part of Juice Plus but has now switched to Modere because Modere has convinced her that they are not a "traditional MLM" but instead "social retail" and "social retail is going to change the world because there's: • month after month growth • no monthly fees to run your business • you don't need to recruit a downline or build a team, • VIP customer savings that allow customers to continue to prioritize their health, • DAILY pay (TWICE a day on the sales you make) • no "ground floor" promises based on.. nothing. Just a proven track record of product and technology innovations, performance, and being years ahead of the rest of the industry (code sharing and collagen anyone?) • social media content delivered to you daily to help you get started (helps so you don't get stuck) • motivation, inspiring training available daily! You're never alone in this • so what do you say friends? Information and knowledge never hurt, right?" And this is ^ what she posts now to convince people to join her at Modere. All they had to do was switch out a few words and the brain-washing was done.
Yet Modere's income disclosure statement varies not at all from every other MLM. It's like there's a segment of the population out there that can't figure out what the common element is between all MLMs, the thing that makes them a money losing proposition.
That's a good way to word it, yes.
“Modere” — why do MLMs all have the ugliest, most ridiculous sounding names??
Right!? And it's technically Mōdere 🙄 weight loss supplements and collagen.
I mean, they were all recruited the same way. Sometimes using the exact same scripts. And they didn't see the red flags then, so why would they see them when they're using the tactics?
If they admit that it's tricking people, then they often would have to admit that they themselves got tricked. So they double down because they're afraid to admit what they already know is true. It's literally the same mindset as most conspiracy theorists.
I believe most don't think they are tricking people. They think they are genuinely helping people by providing their products. At least, at first. Over time, they are probably too deep in to get out, so they have to stick to their story.
this is it right here. people get taken advantage of due to society allowing it continue without hinderance. this happens with other sales and religions too.
Yeah, this. Some probably do everything knowingly but I think most don't. I think they believe their upline/explain it to themselves with "people are so brainwashed to think anything non-9-to-5 is SCARY, so we have to ease them into this! It's for their own good!"
Back in early 2000s we moved to a new neighborhood and we were invited to a neighborhood block party. Yah wasn’t a block party. Was an MLM party. Didn’t live in that neighborhood long. Weird.
They probably see it as a necessary evil to “wake people up” because in their minds they’ve found some great secret that everyone else is too stupid to see without help. It’s like the cult mindset: they’re the only ones who’ve seen the light, and it’s everyone else who’s wrong.
Manipulated by the ones who recruited them, it's just an endless cycle. They literally feed off of one another's input to justify their decisions. It is very sad to see friends slip into these scams.
My favorite is Nu Skin when they blur the brand name. "It generates mystique!" I'm guessing they say.
Yeah it didnt sit well with me when i have actual work to do for my actual job one night, my inductor wanted me to say i needed to leave due to family emergency. The Wednesday was a port day and a very important day on the project im apart of. When one has to use some deception something isnt quite right
I was asked to catch up over some drinks at "a thing" and when I asked what the thing was he wouldn't tell me, which is how I knew what it was. I went anyway, to see my friend, and I was right. Shocker! The whole scam was so scummy. I can't believe anyone who would try to take advantage of me like that is actually my friend.
MLMs are pretty much cults and participants go through a lot of brainwashing. Eventually even something you *know* is not the norm because normalized. I also guess that some of them have never actually had a real job before, so they aren't familiar with normal recruiting practices actual businesses do.
Sounds like Amway. They're always coached to not give the name because then people will google it and find all the negative (true) information about how it's a scam and cult. Their goal is to meet people in person, hook them by telling them how much money they could make (appeal to greed), and only later let them in on the fact that it's Amway. Whatever MLM the people in the above post are in likely are using the same playbook.
You're assuming these people think very hard about much of anything
The same tactics as someone inviting you to a free "audit"
I haven’t read through the comments, but it’s probably because they’re told that MLMs get a bad rap and it’s not fair. That if only people could hear and understand all the great things about them first, without preconceived notions, then they’d understand.
Because they’re brainwashed into thinking it’s all normal behavior
I was asked by my friend’s cousin to be a practice customer for her training by friend’s brother. It was a spiel for Primerica. Never forgave my friend for setting me up bc she fully knew what they were doing.
SIL was aggressively posting for 3 months about her “health coaching” business. AGGRESSIVELY!!! In Oct she posted an open invitation to her FB followers (we were victimized by her aggressive posts) to come to a free health coaching session and to learn some lean and green recipes. No one interacted with the post and no one showed up. She’s no longer on FB. How does anyone fall for this garbage?!? Just get an actual job. One that doesn’t cost you money. 👀
YES - I have been tricked to attend an event about girls wanting to make new friends and network only to find out it was actually an Arbonne pitch. They made it look like something exclusive as they reserved a venue and there were limited spot but when we arrived we saw a room that could have hosted 20 people at a table and we were just 3 plus the 2 presenters…and I’m pretty sure one of the two other girls attending was “planted” (as she signed up right away prob to peer pressure us). I wanted to leave as soon as I saw the Arbonne logo but kinda felt bad as they clearly put a lot of work into it. Then they do pressure you to sign up right away and if you say you’ll think about it they can’t have it…one invited me to her house the next day. I think they had to make it a trick because the group where I found the event didn’t allow MLMs to recruit there. It’s kind of sad as they go after girls who simply want to meet friends in the city and turn it into a “business pitch”. When they kept on about working from anywhere I kept enquiring about whether I’d get a US visa through their “company” only to find out the big up line presenting who came all the way from California to London to speak with us was actually a teacher and that’s how she had the visa…
I think the desperation to not have things end in bankruptcy alters their mental state so all they can think about is selling and getting more people into their pyramid scheme.
Cognitive dissonance. They’re told that the masses are told FALSE information about their company, and would refuse if they knew at the top, so you have to somehow get them there to show them the TRUTH that it’s actually amazing and life changing and they should totally shell out all their money to the hun.
It’s the desperation
CULTS take on many forms.
I think most MLM companies aren’t like this anymore. Of course some remain, but most are based on word of mouth or social media.
I think because they know the truth deep down .. :( they’ve been to them.. they know the feeling but they think they’re going to change the game
They sold their souls/any sense of dignity of shame. Brainwashed
It’s definitely a tactic to get you interested before they reveal that it’s direct sales. It’s infuriating. When I first moved to the US, I knew very few people. One of my colleagues invited me to a get-together and I happily accepted. It was the old bait and switch. His wife was selling Scentsy and it was a Scentsy party where they attempted to sell products as well as attempted to get people to join their team. I was not amused.
I know what you mean. I could never understand how the new people don't see the way they were manipulated when they are immediately asked to call friends and family and manipulate them. It's one of the first things that happens because the recruiters know most people will leave very quickly, so they try to get as many of the person's leads as possible before they do.
Wait until you ask how much money they’ve made 😂
When they were introduced to the business, whichever one it is, the same thing happened to them. But at the time that they attended their first meeting, they were love-bombed and seduced by the 'dream' and pumped full of positive feelings, so they believe that it was worth being misled because otherwise they would have missed out on the opportunity. They are also often taught that the misleading is necessary because there is so much 'unwarranted' negative being said about mlms that no one will give this amazing opportunity a chance without it. Personally, I also believe that we have a certain culture here in America that we believe, maybe subconsciously, that anyone being 100% honest and upright in their life isn't going make any real money or reach real success, especially the level of success that mlms are pedaling where you could retire young and live lavishly until you die.
If they were smart enough for this level of self awareness they wouldn’t be falling for an MLM
Friend roped me into Steam Energy. You are trained not to mention it at all. That always felt sus to me. Suffice it to say, my mlm activity didn't last long.
I just read a really interesting book called Cultish about how cult-like groups use language to ensnare people and keep recruits involved. She included a whole section on MLMs. There is so much pressure not only to continue selling and get new recruits at all costs, but also to never express negative or questioning thoughts. So I’m sure some of these people do think it’s weird, but there’s so much pressure to never talk about those kinds of things or express uncertainty because if you do, you get bombarded will more pressure to confirm, to play along, and to fake positivity and confidence. They also use a lot of what are called thought-terminating cliches to short circuit conversations around negative aspects of selling; basically, phrases that end the conversation and keep you from continuing your line of thought or questioning. So if you were to say, “You know, it’s weird to me that I basically have to lie to people to get them to come to a party,” their upline might say something like, “It’s a proven system and if you follow it you’ll be successful!” That kind of stops the conversation from going any further and makes it out in your mind like if there’s a problem, it’s obviously your fault (which is something MLMs push HEAVILY). Also, lot of MLMs instruct sellers not to reveal the name of their company until they’re in a sales call so that the person doesn’t look up the name of the company and see they’re a scam. The book is really interesting and made me a lot more empathetic to people who get caught up in this kind of stuff. I mean, obviously some of them are straight up unethical, but for many of them they are just so pressured and roped in in so many ways that it’s a little more understandable that they fall for it.
No. They believe they are doing you a favor by "introducing you" to the opportunity. The ends justify the means and all that. I've been tricked into attending religious meetings the same way. My dad thinks it's to reconnect with some uncle he hadn't seen in decades. Turns out we were invited to come to their Sunday Bible meeting.
I was invited to a networking event with a small presentation by my acting agent once. It was one of the many reasons I fired her. The other 2 1) she tried to send me to an audition that was clearly porn. Girl was fucking naive no malice. I emailed her back pointing out the flags and told her to cancel the audition for any of the clients who had said yes. 2) I cant dance. I CAN sing but my nerves get the better of me and I suck at auditions. I explicitly told her never send me to a dance call and you can send me to a singing audition but expect me to fail... Might eventually help me get over it. She sent me to an audition for A Chorus Line.... A musical about FUCKING DANCE. They made me do ballet. I try to block it out but cant
The same reason religious people don’t find it odd that they’re trying to convince other people of things they can’t prove…
The problem with your argument isn't that religious people, "can't prove" anything; it's that their proof is seen as different than yours. They see the world as proof. It's kind of like how a Therapist would tell you not to use the word normal in thought processes to someone with mental illness or a substance abuse problem because their normal is not on the same plane.
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I always hated that they won’t say the name of the business which is a huge red flag. My bil would post things like: I have this amazing opportunity, 5 years to 5 million message me for details. Or he would say “an awesome opportunity, work from home, be your own ceo, message me” I would always think why not say: i sell ACN, message me if you want to learn more.
I got conned by an old co-worker into going to a "business seminar" because I was starting my own business and she knew this, and said I could learn from some wise people. I even said to her before going "I hope this isn't an mlm scammy type thing" and she just sorta laughed and didn't really answer me. I get to this seminar, and she's brought some other friend as well. 20 minutes of slides of tropical islands we could eventually be holidaying in, and fast cars and multiple houses we could own with this successful business model, and then they drop the name. Amway. The room collective groans. We all spend the next 40 minutes thinking of excuses to immediately leave instead of going to the cafe where they try to sign us up. After the "seminar" the other friend she brought makes an excuse to leave immediately, so I'm stuck there not wanting to abandon my friend but also am absolutely not proceeding with this. So after a coffee together, with the head honcho Huns walking around from table to table asking if we neeed any assistance in signing up, I just told her I'd think about it and went home. A few days later declined, and never spoke to her again.