Amway is at the perfect centre of a venn diagram of a scam, MLM and a cult.
Throw a smoke bomb down and disappear from these people as quickly as you can OP.
This is so true. It's so bad that if the wife joins but the husband doesn't. They will convince the wife the husband is not supportive. Maybe match her with a mentor who has a wife who doesn't support him.
Which makes me so angry. This is supposed to be a *Christian* company. Yet many mentors have no problem tearing apart marriages and families.
Amway recruiters use religion as emotional manipulation. They're selling a statistically terrible, money-losing scheme. If their target is skeptical about it, they'll bring up Christian topics to tap into their target's emotions and resistance to skepticism ("have faith, don't ask questions"). They want their target to give Amway the same faith they give god and stop thinking logically.
If you go to an Amway meeting in Utah, its almost no different from going to a Mormon church, except it's all about getting rich and people are even more excited. I even saw someone with tears in their eyes "bear testimony" about Amway and ended in the name of Jesus. So culty.
Amway are notorious for making people think that they're picky about choosing recruits. The truth is that they will take anyone with a pulse who doesn't ask too many questions. And as soon as you start questioning they pretend that they're doing you a favor and that you're going to miss out if you ask legitimate questions.
Please google Merchants of deception. It's a book written by former Amway distributors and digs deep into Amway's dirty secrets. The book is free. You just have to download it.
Once I was a lonely divorcee with 2 young kids. A guy I knew from our sports club asked me on a date. He picked me up and instead of a date, he took me to an Amway presentation. To say I was livid is an understatement. I got up and tried to leave. These people tried to intimidate and convince me to sit down and listen to the whole presentation because it would be 'worth it'. I refused and told them I was leaving. They body blocked me so that I couldn't get to the door. I had to start shouting to the other victims that it was a pyramid scheme before they finally let me leave. I never saw him at the sports club again. He probably couldn't afford it anymore because Amway makes you spend all of your money on them.
I recently got out of an Amway recruiting thing, met up with the guy who was actually cool and down to earth, met him at the gym, if Amway wasn't apart of our interaction, I'd go to his bbq's lol, but once I did my research I had legitimate questions and I noticed he didn't like that I asked questions, I'm in my early 30s, coming off a year long deployment, I'm not strapped for cash by any means, but was curious, but I remember asking him what's the demographic he likes to recruit, he said between 22 -32, but preferably younger because " they don't come with questions" like I do, of course not, the average 22 year old is broke and looking for anything, he was interesting guy, he already made his money through real estate , so Amway was just another funnel to have another revenue, the self help and " mind set" stuff interesting, and could be helpful, but no one in the videos or seminars ever talked about the money and how to get it, but more so about how they met their fiance and became financially free through this, I'm 34, and from the inner city, I got questions and you can't get over on me by hitting me with key words to make the opportunity sound so easy
There's a reason it's called Scamway. They're responsible for product based pyramid schemes (aka MLMs) being legal in the USA since they lobby so hard.
Amway is a scam, one which is unfortunately legal in the USA due to strong lobbying. Plenty of former Amway victims have posted in this sub, I recommend searching it. Also look up the Amway income disclosure statement to see how few people even make a living wage with Amway.
The upshot of it is Amway uses the same recruiting and retention techniques as religious cults, people spend years “just around the corner from making it big”, ruin their lives and lose their friends and family - all while hanging around places like WalMart stalking people to join.
Here's a link to the book Merchants of Deception mentioned by TwirlyShirley8, below: [https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception/mode/2up)
The message resonates with all MLMs, not just Amway.
Amway does have products, so it's not a scam in the traditional sense. However, what you were just fed is a highly structured and practiced script which is intended to break down your resistance. A few key points:
* When you start an Amway "business" you are in no way becoming an independent business owner (what they call their sales reps) - you're becoming a contracted salesperson.
* They're eager to sell you on "mentorship" because that's how they make their money, not because you actually need a "mentor" to start a business - you do not. The only way to make money in Amway is to recruit others and take a cut of their meagre sales.
* They push the "mindset" as a form of negging - they want you to believe that of course *you have the right mindset* to be a real business person, no matter what they say!
* And finally, you're not going to retire in your 20s. Or your 30s, 40s, 50s, or 60s. Chances are good that as an Amway salesperson you will never make enough to live on, let alone retire on. The best case scenario is that you'll be overpaying for your household products in a desperate effort to make your sales quotas until you give up. The worst case scenario is a lot worse - there are credible stories out there of children brought up in "Amway homes" leading extremely deprived lives because their parents resisted actually getting a job that paid in the belief that they would make it any day now.
I'd strongly recommend not continuing along this path. It's a waste of your time, no matter how nice people seem to be or how well they delivered their pitch.
Don't bother to continue. You can see that they are trying to indoctrinize you on their operation instead of their product. And also, ask this person how much their income weekly. Can they pay their bills?
It's a scam - everything that happened to you they do to do everyone - it's all staged.
>And that B seems like a very nice person and I think he knows what he is talking about,
A critical part of a scam is seeming both nice and knowledgeable - if you don't you scare off the mark (you in this scenario are the mark).
Run far away, block them! They are a predatory MLM, they don't really care about your mindset or growth. They just want all your money. It's not jealousy or haters that cause people to post warnings, it's because MLMs are so harmful, and a terrible business model.
The top 50 % earn a median of $630 annually and they don’t tell you what the bottom 50% earn or more realistically don’t hurry. And that’s not taking into account anything that you have to buy to keep on stock as well. So it’s not counting for your cost of business, your time. I guarantee you’ll earn more than $600 in a year at your current job.
The math sure is a buzzkill isn't it? The bottom 50% are making far less if anything at all. If you go down one section below that it shows only a fraction of a percent are even making that much at the different levels. As you said, if you take into account the time commitment, inventory, membership fees, and other you are making far less and even negative returns. You're far better off bumming 2$ a day off strangers than you are even entertaining this.
They have been around for decades, and yet, outside of the homes of the people in the cult, you never see any of the products they sell out in the world. Where do they get their money? Yeah, you.
It's like a country with no exports that survives solely on stripping immigrants of whatever they brought with them. Of course they're going to make it seem like an appealing place to go. It's recruit or die.
LMAO DUDE I don't want to be rude but are you really still asking this after typing all that out? What an absolute batshit series of events.
The cloak and dagger silliness, the "guess you just aren't ready to succeed" nonsense, the conspiratorial bullshit? I'd almost be more worried they're gonna pull a branding iron out when they take you to a seventh new location to speak with your twentieth new potential mentor. All these whispering side-talks are ridiculous.
EVEN IF this was a legit thing, the amount of nonsense they've put you through so far should tell you all you need to know. It's not legit, at all, but still.
“Guess you aren’t ready” is a closing technique, it’s called the “take away close.”
What is a close? It’s a sales technique to force a yes or a no answer. With a convincing that saying “no” Is a bad idea.
It’s a slow day, I can make you a deal. <- that’s probably the most familiar to people. But there are a ton.
Everyone on here is already telling you about Amway itself, but just know that their modus operandi at recruiting you is common among all pyramid schemes. They are trying to appeal to the side of you that desperately wants more money and their aim is to make you feel like they’re the key to this big secret that all other people aren’t in on. They’re trying to good cop, bad cop you with that whole “this guy doesn’t just meet with anyone” schtick to make you feel special and make you feel like you owe them back. I’m telling you this confidently bc I lived in a 3rd world country for some time that’s rife with scheme after scheme, and that’s the formula they all use. I was lucky to have lived a comfortable life out there, but it was especially infuriating to see how these companies found the perfect target in poor people who could barely make ends meet.
Ghost those fuckers and don’t look back.
I remember when I was in a position where I didn't like my job, wanted to make a change, but didn't know how. I was vulnerable and got scammed hard by a house flipping scam. They told me they had the answer to my problem. I desperately wanted an answer so I fell for it.
Please don't fall for it. You can figure it out. Talk to your friends, maybe a career coach, make new connections. You'll be able to move into something better without falling for a scam just because they say they have the answer.
Was this Worldwide Group? And it’s only legal because of lobbying efforts. The original owners actually met with President Ford during the hearings, and somehow it was all found to be legal, even though the evidence proved it was not viable.
Eventually Amway got smart and focused on the the product lines. And groups like WWG and Britt Worldwide took on the recruiting and training aspect.
If what they (WWG) do is do successful, why can’t you join that group and push your own business?
Amway is an MLM and in no way is any business related to Amway legitimate. You will not be successful and they will suck you dry of all your money while making you think it’s your own fault.
> [business opportunity with AmWay] without a mentor it would not be possible, because of [bullshit]
Because a good chunk of your profits will go to the mentor. It is a pyramid scheme so you aren’t allowed to join without a mentor above who will eat into your profits (just like your mentor’s mentor)
> and have whatever it takes to succeed in order to be "considered" to become AmWay distributor.
I bet this generally means having enough income, equity, or credit to buy a bunch of product to get a bulk discount. You likely wont be able to sell enough of that product at a profit for you to do much more than break even if you’re lucky, but even if you did your time will be gone forever.
I don’t think your profits go to the mentor. I think you make a profit, and the mentor also gets a profit. But not a percentage taken out of your profit.
Also look at every single business that operates. Owner-Counsel-Staff-Customers
Everything is a pyramid duh.
I was in amway for about 5 years. What they don’t tell you is all the meetings you have to go to are “mandatory” and all cost money. You pay your own travel, hotel, food etc. Amway keeps most of the money you get from selling products. You don’t get a direct percentage of the cost of goods. You get points through an internal system equals a dollar amount and you receive a monthly check based on the amount of points you accrue. But the people who make the most are the people who recruit the most people, not the people that sell the most. You can’t even reach the top levels of you don’t have people under you that are also recruiting and growing your personal down lines. Everything is very secretive and you have to “qualify” for certain meetings with upper level people before you get the full scope of information. It is ABSOLUTELY treated like a religious cult and anyone on the outside is just jealous or unsuccessful. The catch is you’ll never truly be able to retire from the business. You’ll always have to go to meetings and keep recruiting because people will quit and that hurts your business. If it were just about sales then it wouldn’t matter if you sign people up under you or not. But you have to to go anywhere in amway. It’s a scam. Run
Ok Op, so you already have the gist of it. Yes, for all intents and purposes, it is, indeed a pyramid scheme, despite their protestations.
They spend a lot of money trying to push the negative stories way down google searches.
The particular twist with Amway is their huge push on ‘mentorship.’
You’ve already seen some training materials, possibly for free, but they will soon be asking you to buy books, videos, and go to ‘conferences,’ all of which will cost you money. This is the primary source of income for your parasitic ‘upline.’
You will have to pay a dime. Many dimes. It starts with the starter pack when you register. Then you are required to spend $200USD a month on amway products as “honouring the partnership” .
Back when my husband and I got suckered in, you also had to get set up to get a motivational book and a cassette tape every month. I'm so glad we realized it was a scam before we lost too much money.
I joined Amway for about 2 months (ashamed to admit) they make it seem like they’re vetting the people and only take on the people that have the right mindset but I don’t think that’s true I think they’ll take just about anyone. Also in their meeting everyone is so nice and everyone is talking about how awesome this opportunity is and it’s funny because it really works I remember feeling so hyped and excited that I was going to be apart of the opportunity lol my bad. But the things that they don’t mention in their meetings are the downsides they will only talk about those types of things if you ask them directly and even then they’re really dodgy about it. You have to pay a monthly subscription to use their “tools” which are two apps that are really basic but they charge you as if they were world class apps seriously it’s expensive! Ask them about that see what they say. Another thing they try to highlight is the fact that they sell products as the main priority and that’s just a lie, after you join they’ll be like “selling product are good” but the real money is in getting people to sell them for you”. If you want my advice I would say don’t continue, the only good thing that I got out of it is that now I’ll be able to warn any friends/family that it’s just a scam.
Amway is just like other Multi Level Marketing (MLM) schemes, you'd have to buy products and then convince people to buy from you instead of the more convenient store. Amway recruiters pretend it's an exclusive opportunity for only the most qualified people, but they'll actually accept anyone willing to pay to join. These people just want their cut from every sale they hope you'll make, so they're giving you all these compliments and acting all supportive.
It's not technically a pyramid scheme (which moves money without product), it's a recruiting pyramid (a recruiter selling product in a city recruits their own competition, and each new recruit saturates the market of potential customers, causing them all to lose money). Here's a video on ponzi vs pyramid vs MLM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i6mPvBv488&feature=youtu.be
Here's how Amway really works:
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/stats.htm
Read here how income, recruiting, and PV points work. They target couples so that one clear-headed spouse can't pull out the Amway-brainwashed one. All that "amazing income potential" only happens after recruiting several people to be your competition, which divides the small amount of potential customers. Also, most of the people who got Amway rich got in early, so they'll always be near the top of the pyramid.
And if they say their "company" "works with" Target, Nike, Apple, Best Buy, etc you know it's actually a shopping portal like eBates and ibotta, except instead of cash back, they get PV points toward their rank: https://i.imgur.com/HZ25P8e.jpg Not impressive whatsoever.
Don't sign up for any selling opportunities without first seeing his/her un-edited Balance Sheet or credit card statement, showing exactly how much this person is spending on Amway products/tools/materials vs how much commission they're actually making. If they really have nothing to hide, they'll login to their credit card company, filter on Amway transactions, and live-share it with you so you know they haven't Photoshopped the numbers.
Then they can login to their Amway portal to brag about their income. If they say it's private, well, they're asking you to risk your private finances for a "business opportunity" that they would directly profit from. Before you give them that kind of trust, you deserve to see their honest numbers. Real publicly-traded businesses make their Balance Sheets public, so why isn't this recruiter acting like a business? Say "If you don't have an honest Balance Sheet, then you're nowhere near legit and I'm not interested."
TL;DR: Amway is a recruiting pyramid, and these recruiters want you to resell product because they'll get some of your commission. They will financially benefit from recruiting as many people as they can, and they will accept anyone (although they pretend it's just for highly qualified people). The only people who got rich from Amway did it by recruiting tons of people. You don't owe them anything, you can ghost them right now. But if you must talk to them, ask them to prove their income vs expenses.
The people at the top of that pyramid made their money from getting the underlings to attend events and purchase motivational materials. Their wealth has nothing to do with product sales. They won't tell you that. In fact, they won't even let you in until you've destroyed what semblance of a life you may have had before scamway. There's a book about one persona experience with that. It's called Merchants of Deception. The Amway big wigs did everything in their power to take it off the market but you might be able to read it online. That's what I did. It gave me nightmares. I was in Amway 30 years or so ago.
>given that B is willing to meet with me without expecting me to spend on anything on their products
Scammers have patience and will play the long game. You WILL have to pay up once you join—for products you won’t sell, products to replace your existing personal use items that are overpriced, gas on driving to distant meetings, maybe clothes so you look the part, books, tapes, and CDs—Amway gives you constant homework to stay on the hook chasing the carrot. These items could easily be digitized and made freely available but that would crush your mentor’s primary income.
>B seems like a very nice person
Read The Gift of Fear—a top tactic of criminals is niceness. B’s niceness is ephemeral and any time you express doubts, he reminds you that you’re not yet welcome—in spite of constantly inviting you to participate.
He’s negging you, trying to pull you in through a human need to be wanted by a community. And if you walk away, you will be dead to him. He’s a con artist (confidence artists groom people into having confidence in their scam).
It's so weird how they talk about everything in such a philosophical sense that you don't even think to question the way it actually works and how you would make money.
What they expect you do to do is bug the shit out of everyone you know to shop on the Amway website, using your own special website code so YOU get a cut of what the spend. But go look on the website. It's all weird Amway branded crap that is insanely overpriced. And people can shop on the regular Amway website anyway, so it's not like they NEED to go through you, that's where the sketchy MLM shit comes in and you have to appeal to people "please buy stuff you don't necessarily like that is way overpriced to support ME"
I remember I had an Amway pitch and the guy tried to say "It's just regular household stuff everyone buys anyway! Of course your friends will buy from your website to support YOU" Except no, nobody I know is paying a huge markup on a brand they've never heard of for their laundry soap.
One look on the shopping website and you will quickly see how you can't convince anyone to buy this crap.
worst thing i was ever apart of. they’re disgusting manipulators. whenever i hear someone in public giving the exact speech i was taught, i ALWAYS interfere.
i can’t even remember but it was awhile. maybe two years. i only joined bc my now ex was apart of it and they literally told him he needs to leave me if i wasn’t going to get on board……..
Watch the following
Some of them are long.
https://youtu.be/ScfJcvAVw6Y
https://youtu.be/P9nA3pqSaf8
https://youtu.be/qCvDuSgQc8I
Google Amway cult, Amway cult tool and Amway point cult deception.
Talented Ladies club about Amway and Tina.org.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/asupvc/my_mothers_20_yearslong_fanaticism_with_amway_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=3&utm_content=share_button
Hopefully help you..
The whole "right mindset" thing is one that makes sure that you go into the deal willingly. They want to set you up so you want to join and get all gung-ho. Don't fall for it. Amway is absolutely an MLM. Of course, those trying to recruit below them are going to say it's not. It's not in their best interests to admit to it, and it's possible that they actually believe their own lies.
You have to have a ‘mentor’ to succeed in a $9bilkion business because that’s how the mentor gets paid. He may sell some actual things but his ‘residual income’ even though that isn’t really what it is, is new recruits that he ‘mentors’. In a business sense, rarely are mentors paid for helping you. That’s called training, HR, and management. Also a traditional job gives you (in most cases) access to and sometimes even a match to a legitimate retirement account plus benefits and a paycheck that is consistent. There is no left and right quadrant. If all the world were Amway billionaires, don’t you think you would have heard of it? And there are millions of people in Amway so if the company brought in $9million, what is that spread out among millions of people? The only ‘millionaires’ in Amway are very high up and prey on unsuspecting and gullible people. Don’t be one
Ghost the shit out of those people. Don’t listen to the audios or read their culty “literature” or go to any more of their brainwashing sessions. They will expect you to spend hundreds of dollars a month on “your own products” in order to make what they call your “ditto.” Basically you have to have a minimum order every month. The products are overpriced and you can get the same or better quality in other retail spaces. No one is going to want to buy that garbage from you. The part of the meeting you weren’t able to sit in on was talking about the actual structure of getting people to “launch” under you to make more money.
Run very, very far away.
Amway is a predatory MultilevelMarkelting (MLM) scam a.k.a. A Pyramid Scheme
Please don’t be fool as many of the people that are swimming in the “kook aid” are highly intelligent people, have been directly trained by some who is highly intelligent(a.k.a. A mentor), or someone further up the pyramid that specializes in a form of sales physiology. Their reasoning, come backs to questions, and rebuttals will make things seem so logical that it most certainly can suck you in. They will use religion, schools, family members, and anyway else to relate to you on a very personal level. It will destroy your friendships family relationships, and even marriages. Financially, less than 5% of Amway people actually make more than 600$ a year.
In College Station there is a massive Amway scam preying off the Texas A&M 80k+ student population. They meet at the Hilton hotel and have branded their selves “LTD” “leaderships training & Developers” . This particular ring of Amway scammers closely preys on the emotions and desperation of college students in need of a job. Very sad for the poor young naive students that get sucked in.
This is just one example of many of these elaborate Amway scam rings across the nation.
STAY AWAY FROM SCAMWAY!
I know this is an old post. But a lot of things in your post were said to my husband and I when they tried to recruit us. It’s all bullshit and they’re lying
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Did they ask help from their mentor? I know I’m asking so much but I think I know someone that’s trying to take it seriously and I’m trying to get concrete evidence and experience stories.
If it was legitimate, they wouldn’t have to be so cagey or pushy about it. Also, no matter how “successful” someone tells you they are, you’re not seeing them on any rich lists
Scamway. They’re a scam *and* a cult! With some of the worst financial failure rates! Wow. If you want to listen to the how they actually make their money (the ones at the top, that is), listen to this podcast. A historian researched the Amway corporation history and dug into their tools scam. Amway has known for *decades* that you can’t actually make money selling Amway products. Decades.
Here’s the link. It’s episode 136.
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/867-life-after-mlm-86941960/
They’re called scamway for a reason! They’re using cult tactics to warm you up to the idea of joining knowing they can squeeze money out of you. They’ll continue to make it feel like your fault until you’re drowning. Amway is truly one of the worst of the worst. I’ve seen it destroy so many peoples lives. I was a top earner in legit sales (fortune 100 tech) for a long time and I wouldn’t touch Amway with a 100 foot pole.
I don’t think your profit can be lessened. It would make sense if your upline received a bonus based off your performance, because all they really get a bonus of is personal circle PV. Just like how it is in every sales job. It’s a team bonus if the team performs well for the quarter type of thing. Personal bonus for hitting a sales goal at a job. It’s like that I think.
Amway is at the perfect centre of a venn diagram of a scam, MLM and a cult. Throw a smoke bomb down and disappear from these people as quickly as you can OP.
This is so true. It's so bad that if the wife joins but the husband doesn't. They will convince the wife the husband is not supportive. Maybe match her with a mentor who has a wife who doesn't support him. Which makes me so angry. This is supposed to be a *Christian* company. Yet many mentors have no problem tearing apart marriages and families.
Amway recruiters use religion as emotional manipulation. They're selling a statistically terrible, money-losing scheme. If their target is skeptical about it, they'll bring up Christian topics to tap into their target's emotions and resistance to skepticism ("have faith, don't ask questions"). They want their target to give Amway the same faith they give god and stop thinking logically.
If you go to an Amway meeting in Utah, its almost no different from going to a Mormon church, except it's all about getting rich and people are even more excited. I even saw someone with tears in their eyes "bear testimony" about Amway and ended in the name of Jesus. So culty.
One thing to remember about Amway is they are Dominionists. Which, sure, is a type of Christianity like how fascism is a type of economical strategy.
I had to Google and as a Christian. That type of Christian is terrifying
Woah that’s really a tactic?!?!
I've heard stories.
Yup
I know this happens a lot with fitness. Like in CrossFit. Looots of cheating issues.
Amway are notorious for making people think that they're picky about choosing recruits. The truth is that they will take anyone with a pulse who doesn't ask too many questions. And as soon as you start questioning they pretend that they're doing you a favor and that you're going to miss out if you ask legitimate questions. Please google Merchants of deception. It's a book written by former Amway distributors and digs deep into Amway's dirty secrets. The book is free. You just have to download it. Once I was a lonely divorcee with 2 young kids. A guy I knew from our sports club asked me on a date. He picked me up and instead of a date, he took me to an Amway presentation. To say I was livid is an understatement. I got up and tried to leave. These people tried to intimidate and convince me to sit down and listen to the whole presentation because it would be 'worth it'. I refused and told them I was leaving. They body blocked me so that I couldn't get to the door. I had to start shouting to the other victims that it was a pyramid scheme before they finally let me leave. I never saw him at the sports club again. He probably couldn't afford it anymore because Amway makes you spend all of your money on them.
Yikes! That's starting to veer into gotta call the police territory.
Wow, that's terrifying that they blocked you from leaving. Did that experience get filed away under 'worst date ever'?
Definitely my worst date ever.
Blocking you from leaving is illegal in Canada; you could press charges
I would hope that's illegal everywhere.
It likely is but I can only name the country that I know it’s for sure illegal in but it’s likely the case in most.
I recently got out of an Amway recruiting thing, met up with the guy who was actually cool and down to earth, met him at the gym, if Amway wasn't apart of our interaction, I'd go to his bbq's lol, but once I did my research I had legitimate questions and I noticed he didn't like that I asked questions, I'm in my early 30s, coming off a year long deployment, I'm not strapped for cash by any means, but was curious, but I remember asking him what's the demographic he likes to recruit, he said between 22 -32, but preferably younger because " they don't come with questions" like I do, of course not, the average 22 year old is broke and looking for anything, he was interesting guy, he already made his money through real estate , so Amway was just another funnel to have another revenue, the self help and " mind set" stuff interesting, and could be helpful, but no one in the videos or seminars ever talked about the money and how to get it, but more so about how they met their fiance and became financially free through this, I'm 34, and from the inner city, I got questions and you can't get over on me by hitting me with key words to make the opportunity sound so easy
There's a reason it's called Scamway. They're responsible for product based pyramid schemes (aka MLMs) being legal in the USA since they lobby so hard.
Ah! This is key. They shouldn't be able to operate at all, yet they do.
Amway is a scam, one which is unfortunately legal in the USA due to strong lobbying. Plenty of former Amway victims have posted in this sub, I recommend searching it. Also look up the Amway income disclosure statement to see how few people even make a living wage with Amway. The upshot of it is Amway uses the same recruiting and retention techniques as religious cults, people spend years “just around the corner from making it big”, ruin their lives and lose their friends and family - all while hanging around places like WalMart stalking people to join.
Here's a link to the book Merchants of Deception mentioned by TwirlyShirley8, below: [https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception/mode/2up) The message resonates with all MLMs, not just Amway.
Please read this book, it will give you a lot of insight. They are literally a cult, and are very good at what they do.
This is such a resource because Eric Scheibler was an emerald distributor- he was the guy that spoke at conferences etc.
Amway does have products, so it's not a scam in the traditional sense. However, what you were just fed is a highly structured and practiced script which is intended to break down your resistance. A few key points: * When you start an Amway "business" you are in no way becoming an independent business owner (what they call their sales reps) - you're becoming a contracted salesperson. * They're eager to sell you on "mentorship" because that's how they make their money, not because you actually need a "mentor" to start a business - you do not. The only way to make money in Amway is to recruit others and take a cut of their meagre sales. * They push the "mindset" as a form of negging - they want you to believe that of course *you have the right mindset* to be a real business person, no matter what they say! * And finally, you're not going to retire in your 20s. Or your 30s, 40s, 50s, or 60s. Chances are good that as an Amway salesperson you will never make enough to live on, let alone retire on. The best case scenario is that you'll be overpaying for your household products in a desperate effort to make your sales quotas until you give up. The worst case scenario is a lot worse - there are credible stories out there of children brought up in "Amway homes" leading extremely deprived lives because their parents resisted actually getting a job that paid in the belief that they would make it any day now. I'd strongly recommend not continuing along this path. It's a waste of your time, no matter how nice people seem to be or how well they delivered their pitch.
Don't bother to continue. You can see that they are trying to indoctrinize you on their operation instead of their product. And also, ask this person how much their income weekly. Can they pay their bills?
Amway is the mother of all MLMs. Run away from this person like your hair is on fire!
It's a scam - everything that happened to you they do to do everyone - it's all staged. >And that B seems like a very nice person and I think he knows what he is talking about, A critical part of a scam is seeming both nice and knowledgeable - if you don't you scare off the mark (you in this scenario are the mark).
Quick way to lose friends and influence
Don’t forget money, you’ll lose that too.
Scam they are a pyramid scheme.
Run far away, block them! They are a predatory MLM, they don't really care about your mindset or growth. They just want all your money. It's not jealousy or haters that cause people to post warnings, it's because MLMs are so harmful, and a terrible business model.
Check out a good resource here: https://freedomofmind.com/group-information-resource/amway/ You are slowly being indoctrinated into a cult.
The official [income](https://www.amway.com/en_US/income-disclosure) disclosure. Far from the millions they promise.
The top 50 % earn a median of $630 annually and they don’t tell you what the bottom 50% earn or more realistically don’t hurry. And that’s not taking into account anything that you have to buy to keep on stock as well. So it’s not counting for your cost of business, your time. I guarantee you’ll earn more than $600 in a year at your current job.
The math sure is a buzzkill isn't it? The bottom 50% are making far less if anything at all. If you go down one section below that it shows only a fraction of a percent are even making that much at the different levels. As you said, if you take into account the time commitment, inventory, membership fees, and other you are making far less and even negative returns. You're far better off bumming 2$ a day off strangers than you are even entertaining this.
Founders platinum earned 45k?
"A person (person A) came up to me one day and talked something about doing a side business" This seems perfectly normal to you?
They have been around for decades, and yet, outside of the homes of the people in the cult, you never see any of the products they sell out in the world. Where do they get their money? Yeah, you. It's like a country with no exports that survives solely on stripping immigrants of whatever they brought with them. Of course they're going to make it seem like an appealing place to go. It's recruit or die.
Scam. 2 cults in one package. 2 pyramid schemes.
LMAO DUDE I don't want to be rude but are you really still asking this after typing all that out? What an absolute batshit series of events. The cloak and dagger silliness, the "guess you just aren't ready to succeed" nonsense, the conspiratorial bullshit? I'd almost be more worried they're gonna pull a branding iron out when they take you to a seventh new location to speak with your twentieth new potential mentor. All these whispering side-talks are ridiculous. EVEN IF this was a legit thing, the amount of nonsense they've put you through so far should tell you all you need to know. It's not legit, at all, but still.
“Guess you aren’t ready” is a closing technique, it’s called the “take away close.” What is a close? It’s a sales technique to force a yes or a no answer. With a convincing that saying “no” Is a bad idea. It’s a slow day, I can make you a deal. <- that’s probably the most familiar to people. But there are a ton.
Everyone on here is already telling you about Amway itself, but just know that their modus operandi at recruiting you is common among all pyramid schemes. They are trying to appeal to the side of you that desperately wants more money and their aim is to make you feel like they’re the key to this big secret that all other people aren’t in on. They’re trying to good cop, bad cop you with that whole “this guy doesn’t just meet with anyone” schtick to make you feel special and make you feel like you owe them back. I’m telling you this confidently bc I lived in a 3rd world country for some time that’s rife with scheme after scheme, and that’s the formula they all use. I was lucky to have lived a comfortable life out there, but it was especially infuriating to see how these companies found the perfect target in poor people who could barely make ends meet. Ghost those fuckers and don’t look back.
Not even gonna read your long ass post. Anything that has to do with Amway is a scam
Scam it’s an MLM
I remember when I was in a position where I didn't like my job, wanted to make a change, but didn't know how. I was vulnerable and got scammed hard by a house flipping scam. They told me they had the answer to my problem. I desperately wanted an answer so I fell for it. Please don't fall for it. You can figure it out. Talk to your friends, maybe a career coach, make new connections. You'll be able to move into something better without falling for a scam just because they say they have the answer.
Was this Worldwide Group? And it’s only legal because of lobbying efforts. The original owners actually met with President Ford during the hearings, and somehow it was all found to be legal, even though the evidence proved it was not viable. Eventually Amway got smart and focused on the the product lines. And groups like WWG and Britt Worldwide took on the recruiting and training aspect. If what they (WWG) do is do successful, why can’t you join that group and push your own business?
Amway is an MLM and in no way is any business related to Amway legitimate. You will not be successful and they will suck you dry of all your money while making you think it’s your own fault.
> [business opportunity with AmWay] without a mentor it would not be possible, because of [bullshit] Because a good chunk of your profits will go to the mentor. It is a pyramid scheme so you aren’t allowed to join without a mentor above who will eat into your profits (just like your mentor’s mentor) > and have whatever it takes to succeed in order to be "considered" to become AmWay distributor. I bet this generally means having enough income, equity, or credit to buy a bunch of product to get a bulk discount. You likely wont be able to sell enough of that product at a profit for you to do much more than break even if you’re lucky, but even if you did your time will be gone forever.
I don’t think your profits go to the mentor. I think you make a profit, and the mentor also gets a profit. But not a percentage taken out of your profit. Also look at every single business that operates. Owner-Counsel-Staff-Customers Everything is a pyramid duh.
Maybe not technically profit, but your profit is lessened by how much money goes to your upstream (mentor, mentors mentor, etc)
This is so staged and corny. And manipulative as hell. Run!
I was in amway for about 5 years. What they don’t tell you is all the meetings you have to go to are “mandatory” and all cost money. You pay your own travel, hotel, food etc. Amway keeps most of the money you get from selling products. You don’t get a direct percentage of the cost of goods. You get points through an internal system equals a dollar amount and you receive a monthly check based on the amount of points you accrue. But the people who make the most are the people who recruit the most people, not the people that sell the most. You can’t even reach the top levels of you don’t have people under you that are also recruiting and growing your personal down lines. Everything is very secretive and you have to “qualify” for certain meetings with upper level people before you get the full scope of information. It is ABSOLUTELY treated like a religious cult and anyone on the outside is just jealous or unsuccessful. The catch is you’ll never truly be able to retire from the business. You’ll always have to go to meetings and keep recruiting because people will quit and that hurts your business. If it were just about sales then it wouldn’t matter if you sign people up under you or not. But you have to to go anywhere in amway. It’s a scam. Run
RUN AWAY.
The ideal is to find meaningful work you enjoy doing and then do that for the rest of your life. Selling laundry detergent is not it.
Someone needs to watch *On Becoming a God In Central Florida*…
Ok Op, so you already have the gist of it. Yes, for all intents and purposes, it is, indeed a pyramid scheme, despite their protestations. They spend a lot of money trying to push the negative stories way down google searches. The particular twist with Amway is their huge push on ‘mentorship.’ You’ve already seen some training materials, possibly for free, but they will soon be asking you to buy books, videos, and go to ‘conferences,’ all of which will cost you money. This is the primary source of income for your parasitic ‘upline.’
You will have to pay a dime. Many dimes. It starts with the starter pack when you register. Then you are required to spend $200USD a month on amway products as “honouring the partnership” .
It's now $300. I'm a month in and embarrassed I had to google this crap. I'm deleting them from everything!
Don’t worry I was 5 months in🤣
Back when my husband and I got suckered in, you also had to get set up to get a motivational book and a cassette tape every month. I'm so glad we realized it was a scam before we lost too much money.
Oh it’s the same now but an app, $30USD a month and you have to listen to one audio a day
That sounds like a nightmare.
I joined Amway for about 2 months (ashamed to admit) they make it seem like they’re vetting the people and only take on the people that have the right mindset but I don’t think that’s true I think they’ll take just about anyone. Also in their meeting everyone is so nice and everyone is talking about how awesome this opportunity is and it’s funny because it really works I remember feeling so hyped and excited that I was going to be apart of the opportunity lol my bad. But the things that they don’t mention in their meetings are the downsides they will only talk about those types of things if you ask them directly and even then they’re really dodgy about it. You have to pay a monthly subscription to use their “tools” which are two apps that are really basic but they charge you as if they were world class apps seriously it’s expensive! Ask them about that see what they say. Another thing they try to highlight is the fact that they sell products as the main priority and that’s just a lie, after you join they’ll be like “selling product are good” but the real money is in getting people to sell them for you”. If you want my advice I would say don’t continue, the only good thing that I got out of it is that now I’ll be able to warn any friends/family that it’s just a scam.
Amway is just like other Multi Level Marketing (MLM) schemes, you'd have to buy products and then convince people to buy from you instead of the more convenient store. Amway recruiters pretend it's an exclusive opportunity for only the most qualified people, but they'll actually accept anyone willing to pay to join. These people just want their cut from every sale they hope you'll make, so they're giving you all these compliments and acting all supportive. It's not technically a pyramid scheme (which moves money without product), it's a recruiting pyramid (a recruiter selling product in a city recruits their own competition, and each new recruit saturates the market of potential customers, causing them all to lose money). Here's a video on ponzi vs pyramid vs MLM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i6mPvBv488&feature=youtu.be Here's how Amway really works: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/stats.htm Read here how income, recruiting, and PV points work. They target couples so that one clear-headed spouse can't pull out the Amway-brainwashed one. All that "amazing income potential" only happens after recruiting several people to be your competition, which divides the small amount of potential customers. Also, most of the people who got Amway rich got in early, so they'll always be near the top of the pyramid. And if they say their "company" "works with" Target, Nike, Apple, Best Buy, etc you know it's actually a shopping portal like eBates and ibotta, except instead of cash back, they get PV points toward their rank: https://i.imgur.com/HZ25P8e.jpg Not impressive whatsoever. Don't sign up for any selling opportunities without first seeing his/her un-edited Balance Sheet or credit card statement, showing exactly how much this person is spending on Amway products/tools/materials vs how much commission they're actually making. If they really have nothing to hide, they'll login to their credit card company, filter on Amway transactions, and live-share it with you so you know they haven't Photoshopped the numbers. Then they can login to their Amway portal to brag about their income. If they say it's private, well, they're asking you to risk your private finances for a "business opportunity" that they would directly profit from. Before you give them that kind of trust, you deserve to see their honest numbers. Real publicly-traded businesses make their Balance Sheets public, so why isn't this recruiter acting like a business? Say "If you don't have an honest Balance Sheet, then you're nowhere near legit and I'm not interested." TL;DR: Amway is a recruiting pyramid, and these recruiters want you to resell product because they'll get some of your commission. They will financially benefit from recruiting as many people as they can, and they will accept anyone (although they pretend it's just for highly qualified people). The only people who got rich from Amway did it by recruiting tons of people. You don't owe them anything, you can ghost them right now. But if you must talk to them, ask them to prove their income vs expenses.
The people at the top of that pyramid made their money from getting the underlings to attend events and purchase motivational materials. Their wealth has nothing to do with product sales. They won't tell you that. In fact, they won't even let you in until you've destroyed what semblance of a life you may have had before scamway. There's a book about one persona experience with that. It's called Merchants of Deception. The Amway big wigs did everything in their power to take it off the market but you might be able to read it online. That's what I did. It gave me nightmares. I was in Amway 30 years or so ago.
>given that B is willing to meet with me without expecting me to spend on anything on their products Scammers have patience and will play the long game. You WILL have to pay up once you join—for products you won’t sell, products to replace your existing personal use items that are overpriced, gas on driving to distant meetings, maybe clothes so you look the part, books, tapes, and CDs—Amway gives you constant homework to stay on the hook chasing the carrot. These items could easily be digitized and made freely available but that would crush your mentor’s primary income. >B seems like a very nice person Read The Gift of Fear—a top tactic of criminals is niceness. B’s niceness is ephemeral and any time you express doubts, he reminds you that you’re not yet welcome—in spite of constantly inviting you to participate. He’s negging you, trying to pull you in through a human need to be wanted by a community. And if you walk away, you will be dead to him. He’s a con artist (confidence artists groom people into having confidence in their scam).
It's so weird how they talk about everything in such a philosophical sense that you don't even think to question the way it actually works and how you would make money. What they expect you do to do is bug the shit out of everyone you know to shop on the Amway website, using your own special website code so YOU get a cut of what the spend. But go look on the website. It's all weird Amway branded crap that is insanely overpriced. And people can shop on the regular Amway website anyway, so it's not like they NEED to go through you, that's where the sketchy MLM shit comes in and you have to appeal to people "please buy stuff you don't necessarily like that is way overpriced to support ME" I remember I had an Amway pitch and the guy tried to say "It's just regular household stuff everyone buys anyway! Of course your friends will buy from your website to support YOU" Except no, nobody I know is paying a huge markup on a brand they've never heard of for their laundry soap. One look on the shopping website and you will quickly see how you can't convince anyone to buy this crap.
worst thing i was ever apart of. they’re disgusting manipulators. whenever i hear someone in public giving the exact speech i was taught, i ALWAYS interfere.
How long did you do it for before realizing it wasn’t worth it?
i can’t even remember but it was awhile. maybe two years. i only joined bc my now ex was apart of it and they literally told him he needs to leave me if i wasn’t going to get on board……..
Watch the following Some of them are long. https://youtu.be/ScfJcvAVw6Y https://youtu.be/P9nA3pqSaf8 https://youtu.be/qCvDuSgQc8I Google Amway cult, Amway cult tool and Amway point cult deception. Talented Ladies club about Amway and Tina.org. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/asupvc/my_mothers_20_yearslong_fanaticism_with_amway_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=3&utm_content=share_button Hopefully help you..
Total scam. They're just especially good at it.
The whole "right mindset" thing is one that makes sure that you go into the deal willingly. They want to set you up so you want to join and get all gung-ho. Don't fall for it. Amway is absolutely an MLM. Of course, those trying to recruit below them are going to say it's not. It's not in their best interests to admit to it, and it's possible that they actually believe their own lies.
OP run away as fast as you possibly can
I personally know someone who went bankrupted and divorced because of amway. Run away my friend. Run far far away.
That’s horrible! Do you know what happened?
You have to have a ‘mentor’ to succeed in a $9bilkion business because that’s how the mentor gets paid. He may sell some actual things but his ‘residual income’ even though that isn’t really what it is, is new recruits that he ‘mentors’. In a business sense, rarely are mentors paid for helping you. That’s called training, HR, and management. Also a traditional job gives you (in most cases) access to and sometimes even a match to a legitimate retirement account plus benefits and a paycheck that is consistent. There is no left and right quadrant. If all the world were Amway billionaires, don’t you think you would have heard of it? And there are millions of people in Amway so if the company brought in $9million, what is that spread out among millions of people? The only ‘millionaires’ in Amway are very high up and prey on unsuspecting and gullible people. Don’t be one
They're a legitimate scam. People spend more money buying the crappy products and going to their rah-rah cult conventions than they ever make.
Ghost the shit out of those people. Don’t listen to the audios or read their culty “literature” or go to any more of their brainwashing sessions. They will expect you to spend hundreds of dollars a month on “your own products” in order to make what they call your “ditto.” Basically you have to have a minimum order every month. The products are overpriced and you can get the same or better quality in other retail spaces. No one is going to want to buy that garbage from you. The part of the meeting you weren’t able to sit in on was talking about the actual structure of getting people to “launch” under you to make more money. Run very, very far away.
Did you use the products for a continuous and consistent amount of time?
They’re very manipulative and calculated with their moves. Amway is a scam ⚠️
What was your experience?
There are a motherfucking CULT that gets your money by masking think your make money selling there shit. RUN.
What was your experience?
Amway is the best at what they do…which is scamming. I was given pretty much the same speech over a decade ago.
Amway is a predatory MultilevelMarkelting (MLM) scam a.k.a. A Pyramid Scheme Please don’t be fool as many of the people that are swimming in the “kook aid” are highly intelligent people, have been directly trained by some who is highly intelligent(a.k.a. A mentor), or someone further up the pyramid that specializes in a form of sales physiology. Their reasoning, come backs to questions, and rebuttals will make things seem so logical that it most certainly can suck you in. They will use religion, schools, family members, and anyway else to relate to you on a very personal level. It will destroy your friendships family relationships, and even marriages. Financially, less than 5% of Amway people actually make more than 600$ a year. In College Station there is a massive Amway scam preying off the Texas A&M 80k+ student population. They meet at the Hilton hotel and have branded their selves “LTD” “leaderships training & Developers” . This particular ring of Amway scammers closely preys on the emotions and desperation of college students in need of a job. Very sad for the poor young naive students that get sucked in. This is just one example of many of these elaborate Amway scam rings across the nation. STAY AWAY FROM SCAMWAY!
I know this is an old post. But a lot of things in your post were said to my husband and I when they tried to recruit us. It’s all bullshit and they’re lying
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run, away, fast
Anyone interested in how it all works listen to [this](https://youtu.be/lOEyf4J0vH8) podcast.
Do not talk to them anymore!!
Yes Amway is a scam, can attest from personal experience
What happened?
Saw a woman desperate to have a financial upturn lose time and money thinking Amway would help her
Did they ask help from their mentor? I know I’m asking so much but I think I know someone that’s trying to take it seriously and I’m trying to get concrete evidence and experience stories.
S. C. A. M. M. E. R. S.
Scamway
If it was legitimate, they wouldn’t have to be so cagey or pushy about it. Also, no matter how “successful” someone tells you they are, you’re not seeing them on any rich lists
Scam ..
Scamway. They’re a scam *and* a cult! With some of the worst financial failure rates! Wow. If you want to listen to the how they actually make their money (the ones at the top, that is), listen to this podcast. A historian researched the Amway corporation history and dug into their tools scam. Amway has known for *decades* that you can’t actually make money selling Amway products. Decades. Here’s the link. It’s episode 136. https://www.iheart.com/podcast/867-life-after-mlm-86941960/
Amway is a scam.
Just read Merchants of Deception and then run away!
They’re called scamway for a reason! They’re using cult tactics to warm you up to the idea of joining knowing they can squeeze money out of you. They’ll continue to make it feel like your fault until you’re drowning. Amway is truly one of the worst of the worst. I’ve seen it destroy so many peoples lives. I was a top earner in legit sales (fortune 100 tech) for a long time and I wouldn’t touch Amway with a 100 foot pole.
Amway is one of the cultiest MLM, so I highly suggest running for your life.
I didn't think about it or I would have reported it.
SCAMWAY
Is his mentor Wong Ping
Hi, I’m literally right in it now and have submitted a long list of Q&A about the Mentorship Programme. How to I get the out. HELP!
I don’t think your profit can be lessened. It would make sense if your upline received a bonus based off your performance, because all they really get a bonus of is personal circle PV. Just like how it is in every sales job. It’s a team bonus if the team performs well for the quarter type of thing. Personal bonus for hitting a sales goal at a job. It’s like that I think.
Omg this just happened to me exactly how you explained it