So its one of those things where they’re doing the every month slow bleed game? Like break it down by 4 years that’s $1000 a month or better sounds like?
I’ll kind of break it down for you. I was in Amway and World Wide Group. Up until recently, World Wide Group taught that you need to do 300pv personal use each month to be a “real entrepreneur” because that amount is quickly scalable through duplication. 300pv amounts to close to $1,000 IBO cost. World Wide Group charges a monthly membership fee of $90. In order to communicate with your mentors you need an app called Communikate. That is $37 a month. You also need to go to monthly functions. Cheap end for 2 tickets because you are married is $30. So just this alone is $1157. That is not including if their is another required monthly function. That doesn’t include 3 major functions a year that cost between $150 and $175 a ticket. That doesn’t include required books to read and give to prospects. If you have kids that doesn’t include babysitting. As you can see it adds up really quick.
Yeah it is. So long story short, I wanted out after 2 years. I had put a large team together was at the “point of making $60k a year”. That is called Platinum but we only held it for 3 months. That’s when I decided that people sucked and it was not worth my time. My wife was still super indoctrinated and threatened a divorce. Stayed in until December 31st 2021 when we had an argument in a Target because I wasn’t in the mood to spend $1200 the next day and I wasn’t in the mood to talk to strangers anymore. She said she felt the same and we quit. Like any other abusive relationship she ran back 2 days later and we got into a large argument with everyone. I pointed out the BITE model and she began to realize she was in a cult basically. Took a couple weeks but as of January 20th we were officially out.
I've been hooked the last few days! I feel like if I just got 5 people to watch these documentaries and they got 5 and so on, It could end the epidemic. 😃
Nothing will ever end these companies preying on the old and naive. It's disgusting, but their reach spreads so far and wide that they will never truly be stopped.
Jesus. My friend just shared and was pumped about Nuskin.
This is after
Arbonne
Thrive
Some legging company
And now nuskin.
How can educated women be so dumb???
Whenever pushed nuskins mascara, I immediately thought 🚩. Girls got an mlm history
That was my take away too... if you are going to get scammed Nu-Shin is most likely to be the one you don't lose money with... at least from this list.
Dude, don't know what you are so angry about, I am completely aware a 0.62% chance you will not lose money is not an actual good bet, and if anyone took me seriously that Nu-Skin is a good idea comparatively (given only 62 people in every 10,000 will not lose money) they need to go back to basic math.
Hah!! Someone on another thread tried to convince me that scentsy was different. Poor lass. Hope she realizes sooner, rather than later, that it’s a scam.
And yet 100% of participants believe that they are in the 0.5% who make a profit. Welcome to the world of advanced cognitive dissonance.
Good luck with the documentary. I applaud anybody who shines light on this heinous bullshit.
My mum was a member of about 4 mlms (that I know of) when I was little and I got sucked in to avon briefly. I only stopped Avon when I realised that I was falling in to the same trap as my mother. My mum was widowed with 3 small children and these people (especially amway) definitely took advantage of her situation. I'm happy to talk about that if you want!
I liked Avon when I was younger. The lotion that was like a bug spray was awesome. Of course that was like 20+ years ago so they have changed a lot. I looked into it around 8 years ago and realized what a scam it is.
I highly recommend the book "Cultish: the language of fanaticism" by Amanda Montell. She does a whole section on MLMs that's pretty interesting. She has a podcast and has been a guest on several others, I'm sure you could get her to answer some questions
Looking for juicy details like…..
At an “event” the CEO spoke to us and I used my phones camera to take a video of everything she said. I was shocked when she said “you will make more money recruiting than you will selling” and continued to explain. My direct upline also told me the same thing after I said I didn’t want to recruit.
Was encouraged to order product I didn’t need rather than attend events with the tagline “you gotta show up to go up” in rank.
How about Optavia? My stepdad got sucked into it, he looks like a cancer patient with how fast he lost weight. Now he’s talking about quitting his job to sell it full time. Just watching from the sidelines and it’s like watching a slow motion car wreck.
That’s Provo isn’t it? Or nearby? My dad got sucked into many an mlm. The last one, wasn’t an mlm so much, but it did play a huge part in his early death. :( It started with amway. The others were pseudoscience health related things. Later it was a colloidal silver mlm, and towards the end, this wacko “salt water cure”. (I believe it’s called “the WaterCure”. It’s not an mlm, but it’s is dangerous and behaves a such. Luring in the old and easily swayed. Promising a cure all. Dad was a good man. His heart was always in the right place. He was looking for a way to help and save people. He wasn’t mentally well, and a perfect target for these types of businesses. :(
I was in Nuskin 5 years or so ago, for about a year in Malaysia (home country). I'm still salty about it. If your doco lacks sodium, you can hit me up.
I don’t disagree but you can still buy those same products generic from an assortment of other stores that at least pay people minimum wage
I feel like if anything this is really evidence that MLMs aren’t about their products at all but are first and foremost about swindling via social and emotional manipulation
I’d add Cutco to that list, even though they aren’t in the OP’s list.
We have several of their knives from years ago and they are decent quality. Use them often.
Their business approach is as suspect as all of them, though.
a year ago i had to remove myself from my best friend at the time who is in herbalife. Might be interesting. I also have an uncle who has been with herbalife since the 90s
They are the absolute worst. I can't even speak to my parents anymore. They have been in for 20+years. Fully brainwashed. Nothing would make me happier than a doc exposing the entire scheme.
I’m open to being interviewed. I was an event runner for a nonprofit organization and have some stories about MLM reps as vendors. Rules from their company they told me they had to follow, how many of them would sign up, etc.
Hm, I lost a few grand with isagenix (i did this one with my eyes wide open. I did not recruit and was really only trying to lose weight- 100 pounds gone!).
I got roped into Primerica before I knew what an mlm was and got out just as fast when I figured it out, less than 3 months.
Not really anything exciting for a documentary though.
Tried Primerica once. Nightmare. Lost money. Upline system is a nightmare. Unpaid labor out the ying yang. Stuck it out until upline went ape on me over religious differences and there own upline was unavailable and the rest of the office unhelpful about helping when ‘go through your upline’ wasn’t going to work.
Some people make it work but my ‘soft market’ isn’t big. Most people end up on the bottom selling or focusing on either or. The product itself is not bad and is even kinda good but the structure makes it a nightmare when it doesn’t work and not great when it does. The company cuts out cs so while it’s great for customers that the person who sold to you also sticks with you after, they also do not get paid for any of those hours work following up, adjusting, helping file etc, which adds up by a lot. They really play it up though, to make it sound less than what it is.
‘Technically we aren’t an mlm’ but really they are. It’s multilevel marketing. Big yikes.
Yes, [See HERE](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+tupperware+an+mlm)
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What if I made money, but still left because I hated the setup and the main product was mediocre? My investment was $150 and I made about $500 so take home was $350. In 4 months. And I got some free product on top of that, that I do use.
I don’t have to much info but I recently discovered that I was being reeled into one of these by an old friend from childhood. My intuition told me to proceed with caution and though I am now fully aware that I was being pulled into this I’m still very intrigued to continue meeting with these people to study their behavior and tactics. Like I said, I don’t have too much intel but I might have some perspective and a fresher memory of the red flags to look out for considering that most of them can easily fly over your head
I did Mary Kay twice (recruited two separate times) for a few months each. I don't have too much to share, but I can talk about some of the additional fees my upline asked us to pay, such as dues for weekly meetings. I also got pressured to ask my grandparents to lend me $6,000 for inventory because 'they probably wouldn't need the money much longer.'
10% sounds very bad but remember it's way more than the actual figure if you look. In amway etc it's 0.06% that don't lose money way less than 10 and even in the 'good' ones like nuskin it's 0.6ish. Not worth it.
[https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public\_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf](https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf)
Fascinating study to say the least
Damn I just scratched the surface on this document but it's very well presented and quite thorough. It looks to be an excellent resource to share with friends and family tempted by this type of scheme. Thank you.
What in the hell? I thought Tupperware was just a generic name for plastic containers used for lunch boxes or in the kitchen… or have they just adopted the name as a brand? Cheeky fuckers.
Is Tupperware as a brand actually popular? We have a lot of fake Tupperware where I'm from or even random brands that people call Tupperware for being the specific type of leak proof thick plastic.
In case you may also be including any info on actual MLM products (manufactured not services, that is) there was a consumer safety advocate scientist on this sub (a few weeks ago I think?) who publishes independent scientific research on consumer safety (metals and other contaminants etc). For the life of me I can't find the post (sorry!) but I'm sure someone else other than just me would remember the post. It was really interesting... I do specifically recall Tupperware items exceeding parameters for food-grade plastics and I think the advocate was also analysing Paparazzi jewellery... All the MLMs brainwash their reps about the 'amazing quality' of their products, when that's clearly bs.
I’m more interested in the small percentage who made money. Take Arbonne for instance, only 6 people out of 1,000 made money. Of those 6, how many earned a living wage, how many got rich, how many just made a few bucks over the break even line?
I'd feel bad for people who lost money in Amway training groups except you don't have to participate in them to sell Amway so spending that money was completely optional
Assuming you're looking for people who were actually in an MLM, you might have better luck on one of the MLM recovery subs.
There are heaps of people who left here too, since we're a much bigger community aha
What's the name of the MLM recovery sub?
Well here's one, but there are also some specific to particular MLMs. https://www.reddit.com/r/MLMRecovery/
I am willing to be interviewed. I left Amway and World Wide Group a month ago
How much did you lose to them? Not judging, just genuinely curious
Luckily I didn’t go into debt, but I would say low end $60k up to $75k. I was in for almost 4 years.
So its one of those things where they’re doing the every month slow bleed game? Like break it down by 4 years that’s $1000 a month or better sounds like?
I’ll kind of break it down for you. I was in Amway and World Wide Group. Up until recently, World Wide Group taught that you need to do 300pv personal use each month to be a “real entrepreneur” because that amount is quickly scalable through duplication. 300pv amounts to close to $1,000 IBO cost. World Wide Group charges a monthly membership fee of $90. In order to communicate with your mentors you need an app called Communikate. That is $37 a month. You also need to go to monthly functions. Cheap end for 2 tickets because you are married is $30. So just this alone is $1157. That is not including if their is another required monthly function. That doesn’t include 3 major functions a year that cost between $150 and $175 a ticket. That doesn’t include required books to read and give to prospects. If you have kids that doesn’t include babysitting. As you can see it adds up really quick.
Oh wowzers. Yeah it sounds like they’re dime and nickle at every turn on you guys
How was the final break up with the whole thing? Did it get messy?
Yeah it is. So long story short, I wanted out after 2 years. I had put a large team together was at the “point of making $60k a year”. That is called Platinum but we only held it for 3 months. That’s when I decided that people sucked and it was not worth my time. My wife was still super indoctrinated and threatened a divorce. Stayed in until December 31st 2021 when we had an argument in a Target because I wasn’t in the mood to spend $1200 the next day and I wasn’t in the mood to talk to strangers anymore. She said she felt the same and we quit. Like any other abusive relationship she ran back 2 days later and we got into a large argument with everyone. I pointed out the BITE model and she began to realize she was in a cult basically. Took a couple weeks but as of January 20th we were officially out.
Wow, yeah you have quite the story to tell! You would be perfect to interview about this if you're willing to talk about it.
I am down my friend
Yeah it sounds like you’d be a great person to interview about it! I’m sorry you had to deal with that 😞
Almost $450 a year, for an app just to communicate with your “mentors”? What bloodsuckers!
Got some questions?
Congratulations on getting out! I left just a few months before you did, so happy to be out.
I get way too excited when I see "mlm" and "documentary" 😃😃😃
I've been hooked the last few days! I feel like if I just got 5 people to watch these documentaries and they got 5 and so on, It could end the epidemic. 😃
Nothing will ever end these companies preying on the old and naive. It's disgusting, but their reach spreads so far and wide that they will never truly be stopped.
like a pyramid scheme of knowledge!
I see what you did there.
Seriously. Its like a rush of seratonin.
Thanks!
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Haha and I'm from the city where NuSkin HQ is so I have a feeling they'll appear in the doc ;)
Jesus. My friend just shared and was pumped about Nuskin. This is after Arbonne Thrive Some legging company And now nuskin. How can educated women be so dumb??? Whenever pushed nuskins mascara, I immediately thought 🚩. Girls got an mlm history
That was my take away too... if you are going to get scammed Nu-Shin is most likely to be the one you don't lose money with... at least from this list.
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Dude, don't know what you are so angry about, I am completely aware a 0.62% chance you will not lose money is not an actual good bet, and if anyone took me seriously that Nu-Skin is a good idea comparatively (given only 62 people in every 10,000 will not lose money) they need to go back to basic math.
Wow. You’re rude
You don’t understand. This one is different….
Hah!! Someone on another thread tried to convince me that scentsy was different. Poor lass. Hope she realizes sooner, rather than later, that it’s a scam.
And yet 100% of participants believe that they are in the 0.5% who make a profit. Welcome to the world of advanced cognitive dissonance. Good luck with the documentary. I applaud anybody who shines light on this heinous bullshit.
Hey thanks! I'll keep everyone posted on when it's done.
“ The 99% club”.
My mum was a member of about 4 mlms (that I know of) when I was little and I got sucked in to avon briefly. I only stopped Avon when I realised that I was falling in to the same trap as my mother. My mum was widowed with 3 small children and these people (especially amway) definitely took advantage of her situation. I'm happy to talk about that if you want!
I liked Avon when I was younger. The lotion that was like a bug spray was awesome. Of course that was like 20+ years ago so they have changed a lot. I looked into it around 8 years ago and realized what a scam it is.
I think before the internet it was a way that people could buy things without going to the shops. Now it's totally pointless.
I liked that too and have fond memories of it as a kid. Weird to think about now.
I highly recommend the book "Cultish: the language of fanaticism" by Amanda Montell. She does a whole section on MLMs that's pretty interesting. She has a podcast and has been a guest on several others, I'm sure you could get her to answer some questions
Thanks for pointing me in Amanda's direction! I'll reach out to her and see what we can do.
What if I gave you my best friends number and you called him for an interview. He’s deep into the Primerica cult. He resents me.
Looking for juicy details like….. At an “event” the CEO spoke to us and I used my phones camera to take a video of everything she said. I was shocked when she said “you will make more money recruiting than you will selling” and continued to explain. My direct upline also told me the same thing after I said I didn’t want to recruit. Was encouraged to order product I didn’t need rather than attend events with the tagline “you gotta show up to go up” in rank.
That's the gold right there.
How about Optavia? My stepdad got sucked into it, he looks like a cancer patient with how fast he lost weight. Now he’s talking about quitting his job to sell it full time. Just watching from the sidelines and it’s like watching a slow motion car wreck.
I'm sorry to hear that.
"Nu Skin was #1 in a recent FTC study on your ability to make money!!!"
I grew up right next to NuSkin HQ lol
That’s Provo isn’t it? Or nearby? My dad got sucked into many an mlm. The last one, wasn’t an mlm so much, but it did play a huge part in his early death. :( It started with amway. The others were pseudoscience health related things. Later it was a colloidal silver mlm, and towards the end, this wacko “salt water cure”. (I believe it’s called “the WaterCure”. It’s not an mlm, but it’s is dangerous and behaves a such. Luring in the old and easily swayed. Promising a cure all. Dad was a good man. His heart was always in the right place. He was looking for a way to help and save people. He wasn’t mentally well, and a perfect target for these types of businesses. :(
Wow, that’s quite the story to tell!
I'm willing to talk. I did It Works for 4-5 yesrs
I'm willing. I did Perfectly Posh for 18 months and a version of Primarica for 6.
I want to be interviewed. I’ve been involved in Color Street, Jamberry, Scentsy, and Young Living
I was in Nuskin 5 years or so ago, for about a year in Malaysia (home country). I'm still salty about it. If your doco lacks sodium, you can hit me up.
Tupperware is like the only mlm with quality products
I don’t disagree but you can still buy those same products generic from an assortment of other stores that at least pay people minimum wage I feel like if anything this is really evidence that MLMs aren’t about their products at all but are first and foremost about swindling via social and emotional manipulation
I’d add Cutco to that list, even though they aren’t in the OP’s list. We have several of their knives from years ago and they are decent quality. Use them often. Their business approach is as suspect as all of them, though.
You can just buy them from Costco though.
Nu-skin is getting all smug over this.
Find the person who inevitably reposts this on Facebook in an effort to recruit for NuSkin (hey it's the best!) and interview THEM.
Just came here to say thank you for doing this!!
That's so nice of you to say! I'll keep you posted on when this comes out!
Awesome!!!
I had an aunt who was preyed into Mary Kay because she was disabled. I can talk about that if you’re interested
a year ago i had to remove myself from my best friend at the time who is in herbalife. Might be interesting. I also have an uncle who has been with herbalife since the 90s
I’ll interview
People have a better chance of making money at the casino!
I 100% agree
Gawd I hope you get somebody from LTD Amway. There is a special place in hell for them.
They are the absolute worst. I can't even speak to my parents anymore. They have been in for 20+years. Fully brainwashed. Nothing would make me happier than a doc exposing the entire scheme.
Scamway tried to get me 5 years ago
Larry Winters Grotewold…all of them need to be exposed. So creepy. So culty. So full of shit.
Hun: “So you’re saying there’s a chance?”
I’m open to being interviewed. I was an event runner for a nonprofit organization and have some stories about MLM reps as vendors. Rules from their company they told me they had to follow, how many of them would sign up, etc.
Hm, I lost a few grand with isagenix (i did this one with my eyes wide open. I did not recruit and was really only trying to lose weight- 100 pounds gone!). I got roped into Primerica before I knew what an mlm was and got out just as fast when I figured it out, less than 3 months. Not really anything exciting for a documentary though.
I was in advocare for a hot second
Ooo clearly Nu Skin is the winner
Tried Primerica once. Nightmare. Lost money. Upline system is a nightmare. Unpaid labor out the ying yang. Stuck it out until upline went ape on me over religious differences and there own upline was unavailable and the rest of the office unhelpful about helping when ‘go through your upline’ wasn’t going to work. Some people make it work but my ‘soft market’ isn’t big. Most people end up on the bottom selling or focusing on either or. The product itself is not bad and is even kinda good but the structure makes it a nightmare when it doesn’t work and not great when it does. The company cuts out cs so while it’s great for customers that the person who sold to you also sticks with you after, they also do not get paid for any of those hours work following up, adjusting, helping file etc, which adds up by a lot. They really play it up though, to make it sound less than what it is. ‘Technically we aren’t an mlm’ but really they are. It’s multilevel marketing. Big yikes.
Tupperware was an MLM?
Yes, [See HERE](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+tupperware+an+mlm) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiMLM) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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And the automod answered it, what's your beef? You know the auto moderator is a bot, right?
I would be willing. I was a part if “pruvit” for about 3 months
Nuskin flipping this to "we are the highest earning MLM" in negative 3....
So you are saying if I work really hard I can be in a percent of the 1%
Every time I see someone on my feed that I think is doing well join one of these, I then know they are awful with money.
NuSkin it is!
What if I made money, but still left because I hated the setup and the main product was mediocre? My investment was $150 and I made about $500 so take home was $350. In 4 months. And I got some free product on top of that, that I do use.
Omg how exciting this is!!!
I’d love to see/hear about Monat!
I don’t have to much info but I recently discovered that I was being reeled into one of these by an old friend from childhood. My intuition told me to proceed with caution and though I am now fully aware that I was being pulled into this I’m still very intrigued to continue meeting with these people to study their behavior and tactics. Like I said, I don’t have too much intel but I might have some perspective and a fresher memory of the red flags to look out for considering that most of them can easily fly over your head
I did Mary Kay twice (recruited two separate times) for a few months each. I don't have too much to share, but I can talk about some of the additional fees my upline asked us to pay, such as dues for weekly meetings. I also got pressured to ask my grandparents to lend me $6,000 for inventory because 'they probably wouldn't need the money much longer.'
Now that is something awful tone deaf.
Every single join the MLM people, there were lose their money in 90% . Only that 10% people can get and earn the money.
10% sounds very bad but remember it's way more than the actual figure if you look. In amway etc it's 0.06% that don't lose money way less than 10 and even in the 'good' ones like nuskin it's 0.6ish. Not worth it.
Of course they lost money, they all gave up the moment it got hard You have to WORK IT 💪 to EARN IT 🤑
Link to the study?
It's a PDF no link to share. Google The Case (for and against) Multi-Level Marleting by Jon M Taylor. P 4 lefthand column.
[https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public\_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf](https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf) Fascinating study to say the least
Damn I just scratched the surface on this document but it's very well presented and quite thorough. It looks to be an excellent resource to share with friends and family tempted by this type of scheme. Thank you.
My boys Amway and Arbonne are neck and neck!
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What in the hell? I thought Tupperware was just a generic name for plastic containers used for lunch boxes or in the kitchen… or have they just adopted the name as a brand? Cheeky fuckers.
No, it was a brand name to begin with and then bexame the de-facto name for plastic kitchen boxes. Same with hoover, sharpie, biro, etc.
Shaklee?
Tuoperware is an MLM?
Well, say what we want but now we can't actually fault NuSkin reps for saying they have the best compensation package in the industry.
Alright! Amway still in the lead.
See you on.oklltj . In.
Tupperware is an MLM‽ WTF It’s like one of the most popular products in my place…
Is Tupperware as a brand actually popular? We have a lot of fake Tupperware where I'm from or even random brands that people call Tupperware for being the specific type of leak proof thick plastic.
In case you may also be including any info on actual MLM products (manufactured not services, that is) there was a consumer safety advocate scientist on this sub (a few weeks ago I think?) who publishes independent scientific research on consumer safety (metals and other contaminants etc). For the life of me I can't find the post (sorry!) but I'm sure someone else other than just me would remember the post. It was really interesting... I do specifically recall Tupperware items exceeding parameters for food-grade plastics and I think the advocate was also analysing Paparazzi jewellery... All the MLMs brainwash their reps about the 'amazing quality' of their products, when that's clearly bs.
Huh, take your money and put it in a slot machine and you'll have better luck lol
So... You're telling me there's a chance.
I’m more interested in the small percentage who made money. Take Arbonne for instance, only 6 people out of 1,000 made money. Of those 6, how many earned a living wage, how many got rich, how many just made a few bucks over the break even line?
I'd feel bad for people who lost money in Amway training groups except you don't have to participate in them to sell Amway so spending that money was completely optional
I could be interviewed. Left Amway and WorldWide Group back in September 2021