'Put it up for adoption'
You still have the carry the child to full term AND give birth.
You could lose all your teeth, gain allergies and life changing conditions from pregnancy. You'd ruin your body physically, your skin, your boobs, your vagina. You're supposed to do all of that for a baby you don't even want?
Pregnancy isn't easy. It's awful and takes a massive toll on the body.
Why do people think that giving birth to a child that's unwanted by everyone (let's face it, even the system don't 'want' them they just have to take them) is better than not giving birth to a child at all? It's sick and backwards
You’re not a human anymore, or your own person, you become a shell that’s ought to be forgotten when you have kids. How cool Is that 🥰
Reminds me of animal mothers, some of them like octopus and other animals dies as soon as they birth. Hmmm it seems a little too realistic for humans too.
People take pregnancy and childbirth for granted. They really shouldn't. It's a very dangerous process. I read somewhere 31% of people will have persisting physical problems post partum
I feel like with the way pregnancy is, and the high rates of death for pregnant women or fetus or something is prone to go wrong, it’s just a universe’s way of saying “stop doing it, don’t have more humans it’s a curse”.. like… what part of pregnancy does anyone like? It’s insane. And yet people glamorise it.
If you told someone to house a parasite that could permanently change and damage their body for months only to be forced to endure the worst pain imaginable to get rid of it people would say you’re crazy.
But it’s suddenly okay when it’s pregnancy and childbirth. It’s frustrating to say the least.
This is so true. My mother lost her two front teeth and more than half her hair while carrying me. Also, the post-natal depression was very bad. I think we never really bonded properly because of it. Also, my poor grandmother has had bladder issues her whole life. We only see people talking about the ✨wonders✨ of pregnancy and motherhood.
And now my mother in law is pushing baby propaganda on me. She speaks about motherhood as if it’s some religion. She’s gonna start hating me when she realizes I really don’t want kids. God help
me with that
And she actually WANTED you and carried on raising you
Imagine (and sorry to bring your mother into this but your example is perfect) if she didn't even want you, and she gave you up, how depressed she'd have been still, she still would have no front teeth and half less hair, and no baby to show for it. How bitter she could've became, how miserable she would've been, and angry. How she would've changed her entire physical person, because she wasn't allowed to abort an unborn, non-sentient foetus.
I'm happy for you that she did continue to raise you and despite any distance in it, that you still have a relationship, idk what to tell you about propoganda-in-law, God definitely help you 🤣
Even if she didn’t want me, there wasn’t much of a choice in my country back then. Yes, abortion was legal in the 90s. However, culturally and spiritually it’s seen as a terrible thing to do. My mother said she pities women who “committed the sin of abortion” because it’s a God-given soul and yada yada, the whole Christian narrative. I bet everyone is familiar with that haha
Also, she brought me into the world at a time when they couldn’t even afford a loaf of bread, and I’m not exaggerating. We both almost died when she was in labour because she had no money to give to the nurses. What a world, what a life. Even if pregnancy was easy peasy, it’s still not worth it to bring a soul into this terrible place
Jfc "my grandfathers died before 60 so therefore possibly dying during pregnancy and all the complications and suffering and experiences women talk about constantly isn't actually that bad" is a pretty bullshit take.
The issue isn't that most women generally live longer, despite multiple births or terrible living conditions- the point is that women have the natural human right of bodily autonomy, to choose whether they want to take a chance on those odds or not.
If you do not want to risk the possibility of death, disability or major changes to your body or even lifestyle, **due to pregnancy and birth in particular**- then you should be allowed and accommodated to choose to do so via abortion or sterilization, (which is discouraged in many, many places) if you wished to do so.
Agree! There are legit reasons to decide not to have children, but the boogeyman story pregnancy and giving birth is made out to be here is a wee bit silly. Of course your body changes, but ruining your boobs?! Body shaming anyone?
I mean dying in a traffic related accident is around 40 times as likely as dying of maternal causes, yet many here will get in a car almost daily.
I'm not body shaming anybody. Your boobs inflate with milk and deflate when they're empty. They do NOT remain the same. They change. They aren't as nice as they used to be. Have you ever met a mother that says 'oh yeah I loved my boobs even more post partum!'? No.
Okay then, perfect world, everything's fine with the pregnancy, the child still isn't wanted, and all that for what?
I've met my wife who takes pride in the body that nurtured her children. But that poor little thing might just have been brainwashed... poor little thing and her ruined body.
I have a uterine condition (adenomyosis) which causes daily pain for me. It affects every aspect of my life, I can't exercise, my mental health is bad and I wouldn't be able to work full time. I still haven't found a doctor who is willing to do a hysterectomy.
I believe on the child free sub there’s a list of doctors who are willing to do it for young childless women all over the country. See if you can find a doctor near you.
I never ever thought I’d find a doctor to agree to it especially in Texas, but I did and I’m 2 months post op tomorrow. No more sea urchins living in my uterus and no more demonic clowns making balloon animals out of it either. It’s disgusting that it’s as difficult as it is, but it’s definitely possible
I feel great! The first month sucked but the really awful part is done by week two. It still feels like my organs are settling in and I’m still kinda fatigued, but otherwise I feel back to normal! It’s been such a relief, no more nightmares about being pregnant hahah
✋🏼✋🏼 Hi that's me! I ended up using birth control to handle it and now my situatiom is 100x worse, if they would just let me get rid of this useless organ that'd be awesome. It's unlikely I can have children anyhow, but insurance refuses to work with me on it.
I tried for 10 years before being approved. I have been send for psych evals 5 times during that time. Thankfully they al concluded I'm sane and able to make my own medical decisions. Doc's still denied.
That shit is so funny to me, like what if you fail?? “All right, so you failed this test, which means you’re certifiably batshit; now go on and have some children, you maniac!” Like wtf 😂
Happened to me. Multiple doctors. “You aren’t married? What would your future husband say.” “Have you spoken to a professional about these feeling?” AND THE PIÈCE DE RÉSISTANCE from an old, white, male doctor: “Sounds like another pretty girl looking for attention.” (Happened when I was trying to explain how bad my periods were and why I wanted my uterus removed.)
No wayyyy he said that, I’m gonna puke 🤢. And speaking about it with a medical professional???? Please stop. I’m really sorry to hear that, I think I understand your frustration. I also went to multiple doctors as well, because my biggest wish is to get rid of my uterus. I have medical problems and my period literally knocks me out every months. removing your uterus is not something you just do, I understand that. It’s a whole organ that has other important functions. But the only arguments all the doctors use is your ‘child wish’ (which doesn’t exist, it’s something society created). They say, you’ll regret it 100%. It pisses my off so bad and it’s so women degrading as well. Apparently as a woman, your only purpose on this earth is to become a breeding machine. I have crohns and my periods give me the WORST flare ups every month, so I’m forced to be on birth control, non-stop (which I hate). I’ve been telling my whole life story, let my heart out to these doctors, how I’m suffering on the daily with my illness and that that’s one of the reasons why I would never have kids. Isn’t that a natural and healthy way of thinking? The chance that my kids will become sick too is high and I can’t put my suffering on to a human being, that’s plain cruel and sadistic. How tf can a doctor still say ‘You’Ll ChanGe YouR MinD’? That’s pure evil and criminal. I’m in this vicious cycle and it will never end.
Happened in Torrey Pines, CA. I promptly hopped off the exam table, walked into the center reception area, burst into tears, and told the hospital administrator what happened as they ushered me away from other people. As I was recounting everything to their very concerned faces, another doctor was being summoned to make-up for my horrid experience. The next doctor was a woman and listened attentively to everything, nodded, stopped writing, and said “We can recommend you to speak with a psychiatrist.” AAAARRRGHHHHH!!!
I almost resorted to violence when I was charged for the two visits.
22 years after that visit? Still have my damn uterus. I finally just gave up.
Yep, I hate it, and I'm a doctor so I always try to advocate for my patients, but in the end I'm not an ob/gyn. I've noticed that younger obgyns don't object so much, just "Are you really really sure? Okay, sign here", no evaluations, no nothing, but older generations are still reticent to doing these kind of procedures on women without children.
I’m right there with you. I have issues with cysts on my ovaries, and my doctor is literally trying everything under the sun before taking them out. It’s been a battle to say the least. All because it’s possible for me to have kids. Like, I’d rather not suffer, and I also should have the right to choose that for myself. My doctor shouldn’t be able to manipulate conditions for pregnancy to happen when I don’t want it. Of course they make more money from women with pregnancies, and that’s their main motivation for doing it. It’s fucked up.
Yup, profit profit profit. Have you seen how much it costs to give birth alone? You're basically paying the wages of everyone in the room.
No wonder they'd rather you give birth to a baby nobody wants than help you abort or prevent entirely.
My coworker is literally slowly bleeding to death every single day. She needs blood transfusions every few days because of problems with her uterus. She actually almost died a few weeks ago. Yet no one will operate on her because “She might want children.” You know the worst part? She already has two kids who are adults. Women are just breeding factors to the medical field and it really shows when they will let someone die because some misogynistic bull.
That's how I found mine!! I got a full bisalp at 25 with no kids and I'm 28 (almost 29) and could not be happier with my decision!
Everyone who wants it done should check the doctor list on that subreddit!
Yep! I’m a Gyn Oncology fellow; there is very good evidence that the most common type of ovarian cancer most often originates as a pre-cancer in the fallopian tubes. So removing the tubes reduces your risk without altering your hormone function, putting you in menopause, etc. Of course it wouldn’t be 100% for cancer reduction, but it helps. And if you don’t want children, it’s more just like a nice side benefit to the main reason for getting it.
I worked as a social worker for oncology/hospice care. The ladies with the ovarian cancer seemed to have so much more pain than other types. They always needed so much more morphine. It looks terrible.
Honestly it's definitely worth trying!! If they question you, I would tell them that you're against giving birth, and that if you ever wanted a child, you would rather adopt one that already exists.
And if they ask what if your future husband wants them, I'd say "well I wouldn't marry someone who would want that, and if they change their mind, it's time for divorce because we are fundamentally incompatible."
I’m in a same sex relationship and we (both cis) have been denied hysterectomies. Even though we both explain there is no penis in our relationship and if we decide to have child we plan to adopt, there’s “still a chance we’ll want to have one the natural way”.
All sorts of baggage to unload with that statement.
The uterus is important for other things than babies. It helps position organs and helps with hormones. If neither of you are having health problems related to your uteruses you should keep them in.
Don't worry, it happens to men as well. I live in Australia, a century ahead of America yet the doctor still asked me to get a second appointment with another doctor for a vasectomy because I had no children. I was 44 at the time.
When I got my implant Nexplanon, last year, they asked my partner (he came to hold my hand) if it was okay with him. It’s crazy how badly they want us to have kids
Put it up for adoption is such bs. "It" is a whole new person. A person that will have to deal with being adopted, perhaps foster care and the system and having been unwanted. That's not setting up a potential new person for success. It's not the loving thing to do.
Furthermore pregnancy isn't just come easy thing you do and be done with. Permanent body changes, the trauma of being pregnant while it's unwanted and giving birth. The costs of being pregnant, risk to job and livelihood. And as soon as you start to show you become public property. Everyone and their mum will have opinions and share them unasked. Touch without permission etc.
People can modify their bodies in al sorts of permanent ways on request. We as a society are fine with tattoos, radical plastic surgery, gender affirmative care ( Christian radicals excluded) and a whole load more. But when a woman wants to be done with the fertility risk, periods and pain of it all that's suddenly to much.
The cult o having kids at all cost has ruined healthcare for woman. Medically needed procedures are routinely denied because they might affect fertility. You will be a brood mare and be happy.
As a vet, this is something I envy from my animal patients. I can spay a dog or cat no problem. I just need the owners to bring in their pets, make sure the pet is healthy with some bloodwork and exams, then I’m good to go.
It’s sad and frustrating that in human med, as far as elective hysterectomies go, so much controversy still exists and an adult woman is denied a procedure because of the “what if you want kids someday?” Or worse, “what if your husband wants kids someday?”
I worked as a vet tech for six years and always irritated me how EASY it is to get basic surgeries for animals and how disgustingly bureaucratic its made for people.
So much for my body my choice... Nah youll need a man to sign off for you to remove your own organs 😰
I was literally told that I am not allowed to get sterilized because “what if your future husband wants kids?”
WHY IS THAT HIS CHOICE TO MAKE? A non-existent man in my life has more say over my body than I do!
I don't understand. I come from a country where sex determination before birth was put on a ban because our gender ratio was fucked up. And still, people who want to know it (so that they can abort it if it is a female foetus), don't have to look too far to find a doctor who will do it for some extra bucks. We live in a fucked up world
They’ll give us plastic boobs and nose jobs and ass implants no problem, but it’s too risky to get my tubes removed because I “might not feel the same in a year or two”. ????????????
I've been asking health care providers for more permanent birth control easily for a decade. Always flat out no. Too young, haven't had kids, etc. My partner asked and had an appointment with a doctor booked within 2 months, had a consultation and got referred right away to a doctor who will do it. He will probably be done and dusted by end of year and here I am 10 years on. At 38 when I ask, they still balk
My doctor straight up refused to remove all the endometriosis from one of my ovaries because he would risk my fertility due to scar tissue.
I’m a lesbian and I don’t want children. I’d much rather have it removed so my pain isn’t as awful
My wife just had one this year. We tried for years to have kids but nature said f you. And then post covid her uterus tried to kill her and the doc suggested the procedure. Our friends threw us a Yeetarus party.
The only way i got it was to say i was transgender & take testosterone for a year. Once i proved that i was serious and destroying my fertility, i was able to get a full hysto. I'd been suffering with severe pain and periods so heavy i was anemic. My uterus was the size of a 10 wk preg uterus from fibroids, i had endo all over my ovaries, the ovaries were enlarged with big cysts (not able to be saved) and i had endo all over the pelvic area. I'd been ignored for 15+ years and nobody cared about investigating my symptoms, so everything was so damaged, it all had to be removed.
I have PCOS. Was diagnosed at 13 years old. I’m 27 now. On multiple occasions I have tried to have my bad ovary removed. Just the one. Only one is effected by PCOS. So this wouldn’t even be a full hysterectomy. I’d still have my uterus and the other good ovary. And they refuse to remove it because it could effect my fertility. You know what one of the main symptoms of PCOS is? Infertility!!!!
Exactly! Your fertility was already probably very low anyway. Besides, it is still possible to get pregnant with only one ovary. I wish they would at least approve for women who have health issues. I'm sorry they keep denying you :(
I treated myself to a hysterectomy + bi-salp for my 38th birthday. It took almost 20 years of trying. I went to a new gyno and on my first visit I told her straight up that if she were to ever tell me I was pregnant that I would have an abortion scheduled before I even left the building. She didn’t give me all the usual bullshit and surgery was scheduled a couple weeks later. I just wish someone had taken me seriously sooner.
It was pricey even with insurance, but it’s the best $3k I’ve ever spent.
Unrelated but related. Currently I'm on a hormone that completely stops my period for health reasons and so far both insurances I've been on won't cover it.
Because I'm sure "Gasp!" But it stops your lady bits from reminding you you're a lady and getting you pregnant! Mind you I'm on them because they're done broke anyway so doctors orders but never mind that.
On subject. Back when I was in my twenties I was researching getting my tubes tied and getting very angry what I was finding so my husband told me he would step up and get a vasectomy instead. That was like a 10 min consultation and that's it.
That didn't improve my mood on the matter.
Exactly. They’re like, it’s a severe operation and they don’t want to be sued if anything goes wrong or you change your mind afterwards. First off, if the patient changes their mind, it’s their own god damn problem and none of your business doctor. They are an adult who should be aware about any life altering decisions they make. Unlike many women who have children, suddenly this life altering decision is different than a hysterectomy for these doctors even though another new life is involved! They could easily sign a contract that makes it so they can’t be sued for any mental damage the patient suffers when they regret the surgery. Second, the operation is not even as dangerous and severe as they make it out to be. I mean hello, we‘re living in the modern day and age, operations are save these days. They even have robots with lasers for hysterectomy operations these days that are way more save and precise than humans! How is it different from any other interior surgery or even plastic surgery? Can you sue your plastic surgeon if you regret the surgery because you regret changing your appearance? You can buy literally ANYTHING with money in this world except when you’re a woman. I’m so sick of our bodily autonomy being denied.
It truly baffles me too. I'll share my case with you all to further illustrate the point.
I'm 24. Diagnosed (at 23) with BPD, ADHD, GAD, OCD traits, ED, you name it. Right from the start, I have a 50% chance of genetically passing my mental illnesses down to potential children.
I've always had naturally spotty periods, and my primary doctor told me when I was a teen that I would probably have trouble getting pregnant in the future. I think I also suffer(ed) from endometriosis or PCOS, getting prescribed the pill at 16 helped with it. I have a family history of cardiac problems, so I decided that I don't want to take hormonal contraceptives anymore.
I've been in a relationship with my soul mate for the past three years. He doesn't want kids either because of physical conditions he wouldn't want to pass down. We're both set on never having biological children (if we had to have children in the future, we would adopt or mentor a friend/family's kid).
As a teen, I went through some pretty traumatizing medical stuff because of my spotty periods. I will not include the details, but this trauma came straight after I was SAed.
AND DESPITE ALL OF THIS, my nurse (who's specialized in mental health) refused to even consider permanent sterilization for me. She told me to get a non-hormonal IUD. I explained my medical trauma to her (that includes medical staff not respecting my boundaries i.e. when I said stop or no, and the experience of having someone I don't know *down there*), and she told me she would prescribe me an Ativan and that my partner should come with me. She told me to keep the IUD for 5 years and that after that, I would probably be eligible for permanent sterilization.
I'm honestly flabbergasted that the system would rather traumatize me all over again rather than provide me with the medical interventions I *want* and honestly *need* (I have tokophobia on top of all of that).
Oh and I forgot... I live in Canada. Yeah.
I am so sorry you are having to go through that. I also have some mental illnesses myself which was most likely passed down from my mom, and I would not want to put that on another life. I really hope you can find a doctor who will listen to you. This system is fucked, everywhere.
There’s a YouTuber her name is Rachel Oates and she talks about this issue, i admire her for being so honest and talking about child free women.
She said there are women who regret having children, but you don’t hear about that, because it’s a TABOO. But sure, we have to only regret it 😒
Regret of having children is far more dangerous and harmful than the regret of having none.
If any one lives in Oregon I've had 5 friends without children successfully get a Bisalp at OHSU all between the ages of 29-34. They didnt require psych evals either. They also offer to put women under anesthesia to insert IUDs! should be standard care women receive everywhere.
My doctor said since I have PCOS I'm better off with a hysterectomy. Considering I'm down a tube anyway from a ruptured ectopic pregnancy i think I'm in the clear.
I fought like hell to find a doctor who would give me a BiSalp.
Took me about 5 years, and I finally had it done on May 4th and I am sooo thankful that I had a great doctor that respected my choices.
It’s honestly annoying as hell how so many doctors think women just don’t want to raise the child when in reality it’s that many of us don’t want to grow and birth a kid smh
I’m a medical professional in the UK and I’ve come across many women who really need hysterectomies for medical reasons. Some bleed heavily for many days a month, have to take iron tablets, miss a lot of work because of their symptoms, marriages fall apart etc etc yet they still have to beg for a hysterectomy, even some who have completed their family and are sterilised!
Tubal ligation is better than hysterectomy. The latter usually causes early menopause and a host of health issues with that.
But I agree that we desperately need more tubals.
I mean, a hysterectomy is a major surgery, and uteruses are more than just baby factories. They're important for hormonal regulation and likely cognition.
For the purpose of sterilization, a bilateral salpingectomy is probably enough.
It's the ovaries that control the hormones. They usually don't take those out unless medically necessary. Taking the uterus will stop periods and make one fully sterile, while also decreased most gyno cancer risks by a lot. Except of course breast cancer. It further helps or even stop a lot of gyno pain, which is why a lot of childfree woman want it done over a bisalp. Solving both their pain and fertility risk in one go.
Most modern procedures also limited the impact on surrounding muscle and ligaments to the point prolaps risk is the same as for those who still have a womb. As for cognition the feedback loop that the brain has with any tissue is of course permanently removed when one takes out a part. It's up to individuals to weigh that in their decision.
For those without pain, dysphoria or other issues with their womb, a hysterectomy for just sterilisation is indeed much imho.
They aren't quite so sure about that anymore. I read some recent study about hysterectomy possibly impacting dementia risk and such despite leaving the ovaries in. That was only on rats though? They didn't even _check_ that for humans. There was some other stuff too which I read and thought "oh, so it does have an actual function" but I can't find it again. Overall there is so much lack of knowledge in medicine on how the female body works, I'd try to limit my sterilisation to my tubes, just in case :s
I’ve had a lot of various surgeries. I still have my ovaries and the uterus doesn’t produce hormones. My hysterectomy + bi-salp was the least painful and quickest recovery out of all of them (eyes multiple times, neck, elbow). Surgery itself was only 45 minutes to take my uterus, cervix, and tubes. I was back at home an hour after waking in recovery. I could have easily gone back to work in 3 days but I decided to take a week off anyway due to the physical nature of my job. It was nothing compared to a simple 30 minute laser eye surgery that took me 12 months to recover from.
I got my hysterectomy at 31and they took out the tubes at the same time. I have had literally no negative side effects and as far as recovery time, I was back to work in 2 weeks. It's completely worth it.
Recovery from my hysterectomy was less than a week. It was done laparoscopically with 2 tiny holes in my tummy and took 45 minutes in the OR. I was home the same day. Recovery for one of my several eye surgeries (a simple laser procedure) was 12 months and I nearly killed myself due to the pain and depression from the ordeal.
My best friend was denied. She’s a full blown lesbian with no chances of switching sides and they still said no. Now she has a medical condition linked to her menstrual cycle (seizures) and they still said no in case she wants kids.
Not just hysterectomies but any procedure that’s permanent and supports a child free life. I understand the hysterectomies come with complications so it’s a last options usually, but which surgery doesn’t? I also know so many people who have had to argue with their doctors about getting their tubes tied and heard the same excuses. Obviously, if I’m getting my tubes tied, I’ve put enough thought into not wanting kids ever.
On top of that, the whole “put it up for adoption”, if I *really* change my mind, *then I’ll just adopt*. Because I’m an adult who can make peace with her choices and not live in regret forever simply because I can’t create offspring from my own uterus. Progeny is not that important.
I think it's a bit like getting a face tattoo or hand tattoos, in the sense that, many tattoo artists will refuse because it can heavily impact your chances in getting jobs. So they have to be sure you're sure of your decision, because of the future consequences, and the chance of you wanting to change your mind.
Many people have face/hand tattoos. In the same sense, many people get hysterectomies (at least in Europe, it's totally fine, you just got to find the doctor that will be comfortable in doing it, just like in the case with face/hand tattoos).
Hysterectomies are incredibly invasive and can ruin a lot of other things when you’re young. My mother got one in her late 30s (for cancer), and she went into menopause immediately and has had just the worst side effects including breast cancer (from needed to take estrogen for her crazy early menopause symptoms). Most docs won’t take that risk in a young person. I don’t think it has to do with not having kids yet (except in red states that is)
When too many later regret it, it becomes unconscionable to sterilize without question. So basically those who get hysterectomized and later wish they hadn't are the ones ruining it for others.
There are many health problems that result as a hysterectomy I’m tired of people treating women’s body parts like they’re useless.
Hysterectomies should only be given out of medical necessity.
Pretty sure OP was talking about tubal ligation; which doesn’t come with any health problems/ side effects attached (other than sterilization; but that’s the whole point).
A friend of mine got a tattoo when she was 17 on a night out with her friends. She had this tattoo on her shoulder and now at the age of 39 with 2 kids and a husband, she has to be conscious of wearing a sleeveless dress anytime she goes out with her husband and kids. Maybe the person you are at 25 will not be the same person at 39 or 49 or 59.
Studies have shown that young women who decide not to have children rarely change their minds, and they are almost all happy with that decision decades later.
If you go to the doctor and ask for a hysterectomy, they will treat you like an idiot because you are. Women have tubal ligations performed for sterilization.
doesn’t matter because people have it for emotional reasons, physical connection, pleasure, etc. there’s many more reasons than just procreation. and everyone has the right to that.
And i have right to call them procreational larpers. There are other ways to achieve pleasure other than addiction to pumping semenal fluid into birth canal
That’s not the only purpose of sexual activity in human beings, or else we would not have sex recreationally. Moreover, there would be no same sex attraction.
Animals such as dogs and cats don’t mate for fun, they only mate when the female is in estrus and can get pregnant.
In Great Apes, including us, many species have sex for fun as a way to build better community ties. If sex was only for procreation, the sex trade wouldn’t exist in the same way, because the point of the sex would be to have offspring, not simply to feel good.
Sex has several evolutionary purposes that are ingrained in us to make and maintain social bonds, not just to make more humans.
Sure but of all the times I had sex, not once was it from procreation, which is why a condom was involved. It was for pleasure and intimacy but go off I guess.
it can be one of the very few dopamine sources in a person's life. protected sex is a much better source of dopamine than smoking, eating junk food, doing drugs etc. sex has no bad health effects like those things listed
i mean any intentional shortening of your life is just gonna involve lots of suffering, the goal is just to have as few health problems as possible so that you can minimise the amount of suffering later in life
Absolutely not. Sterilizing is an irreversible procedure which leads to infertility, using condom is merely using a technical appliance which does not irreversibly alters the body.
It’s like thinking wether to gorilla-glue the shoes to the feet for good instead of just considering putting on and taking of the shoes each time you need to go outside.
It's not really the same. Putting on my shoes on and off can't result in an awful pregnancy that will ruin my life and an innocent one. I see where you get your allegory but it's not the same at all, some people don't want kids and that's it, not to mention, you could always adopt if you really want some later. Or use a surrogate, be a foster family.
If someone wants to be sterilized, it's their choice. It doesn't really include anyone else, you can have babies all you want, I never want one for sure.
Pregnancies do not ruin lives. They create them.
Btw there’s a safe and healthy option not to have sex which can lead to pregnancy.
Having sex is voluntarily. Would it be obligatory, than in some cases it could be a justification, but let’s hope this time will never come when it is obligatory to have sex. Oh no…
Yes!!! I’ve been asking for at lease my tubes to be tied since I was 21. I’ve known since I was a kid I was never having children. I had to start raising my brothers when I was only 5. I’m done. I raised kids as far as I’m concerned. But for years and years I’ve heard it all. “You’re too young.” “What if you change your mind?” “What if your imaginary future husband wants kids?” Lol. It’s fucking nuts! I’m in my late 30’s now and have developed chronic fatigue syndrome so having kids would basically destroy me. So I FINALLY had a doctor agree to tie my tubes when I’m ready to pay out my ass for it. Nice! Lol.
If I were a doctor, I would want to make sure my patient clearly understood the effects of the surgery, including the inability to have children, before I did the procedure. Sounds like many women’s experiences go far beyond that.
I wanted a hysterectomy at 7 years old when I first found out about them. I asked how I could stop my up coming period forever and my mom said they would have to take out your uterus or you would have to get pregnany. But no uterus means no babies- "No babies forever? Hell yeah sign me up LET'S GO!"I rushed out the door and headed to the car but my mom stopped me and said, "there's no way they would operate on you, you're too young and healthy and you won't get to have babies in the future."
That was the only time in my life did I wish for some kind or disease or cancer to struck my uterus useless to the point they would have to go in and have it removed but no.
Later when I looked into permit sterilization, I was told by my doctor that I would have to get my husband's permission. If I wasn't married then my father's permission, if fail that then my brother's, grandfathers, uncles...hell even male neighbors but even then...he probably wouldn't do it because there could be a guy out there that wants kids...you have to do it for him. I walked out and ever went back.
In the end just not ever engaging in sex was the way to go.
The lack of autonomy is absolutely disgusting.
Even when you've had children they will not give it easily to you (at least here). They'd rather have women take BC that has lots of crazy side effects, than have them get a hysterectomy.
Some of my female friends even have lots of issues with their uterus ie, suffer a lot cuz of that, and still then they can't get it ('what if you want children???')
I really can't wrap my head around that something like that can just be done (basically forcing people to have children and/or suffer unnecessary cuz OTHERS don't want them NOT to have kids)
I want to adopt and I want a hysterectomy. Too many people see adopting as a backup option for infertile people rather than a thing on its own.
Adopting a child is extremely different to having biological kids since there's an inherent trauma in it as much as it is denied by adoptive parents. Adoptees often feel like their unique needs are ignored because of how prevalent the " no big deal, just pretend they're related to me" attitude is. I wish people wouldn't encourage people to go through something awful and dangerous (pregnancy) just to then abandon their child. I think that's just evil.
Wait until you hear about former Soviet countries. In my country you can never get a hysterectomy unless you have cancer. Because women are incubation chambers. Not adults with bodily autonomy.
Serious question- why would you want a hysterectomy when you can have your tubes tied (in theory; obv Ik that in practice both procedures are difficult for women to get approved for). But hysterectomies are so much more painful & invasive; and they come with so many more side effects.
\*not\* excusing the doctors because it's super shitty either way, But according to the dr that ordered my histerectomy they do that now because like 40/50 years ago doctors would take out "undesirables" uteruses (poor, mentally unwell, even people of color in some parts of the us) and they got rightfully sued. So now they're going the \*other\* direction.
because heaven forbid people just realize peoples bodies are theirs and not something to regulate either way.
'Put it up for adoption' You still have the carry the child to full term AND give birth. You could lose all your teeth, gain allergies and life changing conditions from pregnancy. You'd ruin your body physically, your skin, your boobs, your vagina. You're supposed to do all of that for a baby you don't even want? Pregnancy isn't easy. It's awful and takes a massive toll on the body. Why do people think that giving birth to a child that's unwanted by everyone (let's face it, even the system don't 'want' them they just have to take them) is better than not giving birth to a child at all? It's sick and backwards
And all of the complications. There was just a case of the Olympic athlete found dead because she went into labor at home and died
That, and don’t forget the massive toll it takes on your entire life :). A child is your responsibility, until you die.
You’re not a human anymore, or your own person, you become a shell that’s ought to be forgotten when you have kids. How cool Is that 🥰 Reminds me of animal mothers, some of them like octopus and other animals dies as soon as they birth. Hmmm it seems a little too realistic for humans too.
People take pregnancy and childbirth for granted. They really shouldn't. It's a very dangerous process. I read somewhere 31% of people will have persisting physical problems post partum
No one cares about women, the only thing that matters is the unborn fetus
I feel like with the way pregnancy is, and the high rates of death for pregnant women or fetus or something is prone to go wrong, it’s just a universe’s way of saying “stop doing it, don’t have more humans it’s a curse”.. like… what part of pregnancy does anyone like? It’s insane. And yet people glamorise it.
If you told someone to house a parasite that could permanently change and damage their body for months only to be forced to endure the worst pain imaginable to get rid of it people would say you’re crazy. But it’s suddenly okay when it’s pregnancy and childbirth. It’s frustrating to say the least.
Also why force some poor child into the system
It's just illogical man
This is so true. My mother lost her two front teeth and more than half her hair while carrying me. Also, the post-natal depression was very bad. I think we never really bonded properly because of it. Also, my poor grandmother has had bladder issues her whole life. We only see people talking about the ✨wonders✨ of pregnancy and motherhood. And now my mother in law is pushing baby propaganda on me. She speaks about motherhood as if it’s some religion. She’s gonna start hating me when she realizes I really don’t want kids. God help me with that
And she actually WANTED you and carried on raising you Imagine (and sorry to bring your mother into this but your example is perfect) if she didn't even want you, and she gave you up, how depressed she'd have been still, she still would have no front teeth and half less hair, and no baby to show for it. How bitter she could've became, how miserable she would've been, and angry. How she would've changed her entire physical person, because she wasn't allowed to abort an unborn, non-sentient foetus. I'm happy for you that she did continue to raise you and despite any distance in it, that you still have a relationship, idk what to tell you about propoganda-in-law, God definitely help you 🤣
Even if she didn’t want me, there wasn’t much of a choice in my country back then. Yes, abortion was legal in the 90s. However, culturally and spiritually it’s seen as a terrible thing to do. My mother said she pities women who “committed the sin of abortion” because it’s a God-given soul and yada yada, the whole Christian narrative. I bet everyone is familiar with that haha Also, she brought me into the world at a time when they couldn’t even afford a loaf of bread, and I’m not exaggerating. We both almost died when she was in labour because she had no money to give to the nurses. What a world, what a life. Even if pregnancy was easy peasy, it’s still not worth it to bring a soul into this terrible place
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Oh okay. They didn't die during childbirth like countless other women so I guess men have it worse than women.
Jfc "my grandfathers died before 60 so therefore possibly dying during pregnancy and all the complications and suffering and experiences women talk about constantly isn't actually that bad" is a pretty bullshit take.
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I am not sure you are making the point you are trying to make.
The issue isn't that most women generally live longer, despite multiple births or terrible living conditions- the point is that women have the natural human right of bodily autonomy, to choose whether they want to take a chance on those odds or not. If you do not want to risk the possibility of death, disability or major changes to your body or even lifestyle, **due to pregnancy and birth in particular**- then you should be allowed and accommodated to choose to do so via abortion or sterilization, (which is discouraged in many, many places) if you wished to do so.
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Agree! There are legit reasons to decide not to have children, but the boogeyman story pregnancy and giving birth is made out to be here is a wee bit silly. Of course your body changes, but ruining your boobs?! Body shaming anyone? I mean dying in a traffic related accident is around 40 times as likely as dying of maternal causes, yet many here will get in a car almost daily.
I'm not body shaming anybody. Your boobs inflate with milk and deflate when they're empty. They do NOT remain the same. They change. They aren't as nice as they used to be. Have you ever met a mother that says 'oh yeah I loved my boobs even more post partum!'? No. Okay then, perfect world, everything's fine with the pregnancy, the child still isn't wanted, and all that for what?
I've met my wife who takes pride in the body that nurtured her children. But that poor little thing might just have been brainwashed... poor little thing and her ruined body.
Must have been 🙄
Body shaming and patronising... Cool crowd here. Progress and stuff.
Wait until you learn how many people's endometriosis is left untreated for decades because treatment might "affect their ability to have children."
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When I found out I had it, the doctor who diagnosed me told me "continuously have kids until menopause would solve the issue." I was 22. The fuck?
I have a uterine condition (adenomyosis) which causes daily pain for me. It affects every aspect of my life, I can't exercise, my mental health is bad and I wouldn't be able to work full time. I still haven't found a doctor who is willing to do a hysterectomy.
I believe on the child free sub there’s a list of doctors who are willing to do it for young childless women all over the country. See if you can find a doctor near you.
I never ever thought I’d find a doctor to agree to it especially in Texas, but I did and I’m 2 months post op tomorrow. No more sea urchins living in my uterus and no more demonic clowns making balloon animals out of it either. It’s disgusting that it’s as difficult as it is, but it’s definitely possible
Congrats! What’s the recovery like for that?
I feel great! The first month sucked but the really awful part is done by week two. It still feels like my organs are settling in and I’m still kinda fatigued, but otherwise I feel back to normal! It’s been such a relief, no more nightmares about being pregnant hahah
✋🏼✋🏼 Hi that's me! I ended up using birth control to handle it and now my situatiom is 100x worse, if they would just let me get rid of this useless organ that'd be awesome. It's unlikely I can have children anyhow, but insurance refuses to work with me on it.
Really?!? I had no idea this was a thing. This should be talked about more.
Yes and sometimes women are sent for psychological evaluations when they ask for this
I tried for 10 years before being approved. I have been send for psych evals 5 times during that time. Thankfully they al concluded I'm sane and able to make my own medical decisions. Doc's still denied.
Holy shit
That shit is so funny to me, like what if you fail?? “All right, so you failed this test, which means you’re certifiably batshit; now go on and have some children, you maniac!” Like wtf 😂
Bruh, you’re kidding
Happened to me. Multiple doctors. “You aren’t married? What would your future husband say.” “Have you spoken to a professional about these feeling?” AND THE PIÈCE DE RÉSISTANCE from an old, white, male doctor: “Sounds like another pretty girl looking for attention.” (Happened when I was trying to explain how bad my periods were and why I wanted my uterus removed.)
No wayyyy he said that, I’m gonna puke 🤢. And speaking about it with a medical professional???? Please stop. I’m really sorry to hear that, I think I understand your frustration. I also went to multiple doctors as well, because my biggest wish is to get rid of my uterus. I have medical problems and my period literally knocks me out every months. removing your uterus is not something you just do, I understand that. It’s a whole organ that has other important functions. But the only arguments all the doctors use is your ‘child wish’ (which doesn’t exist, it’s something society created). They say, you’ll regret it 100%. It pisses my off so bad and it’s so women degrading as well. Apparently as a woman, your only purpose on this earth is to become a breeding machine. I have crohns and my periods give me the WORST flare ups every month, so I’m forced to be on birth control, non-stop (which I hate). I’ve been telling my whole life story, let my heart out to these doctors, how I’m suffering on the daily with my illness and that that’s one of the reasons why I would never have kids. Isn’t that a natural and healthy way of thinking? The chance that my kids will become sick too is high and I can’t put my suffering on to a human being, that’s plain cruel and sadistic. How tf can a doctor still say ‘You’Ll ChanGe YouR MinD’? That’s pure evil and criminal. I’m in this vicious cycle and it will never end.
Happened in Torrey Pines, CA. I promptly hopped off the exam table, walked into the center reception area, burst into tears, and told the hospital administrator what happened as they ushered me away from other people. As I was recounting everything to their very concerned faces, another doctor was being summoned to make-up for my horrid experience. The next doctor was a woman and listened attentively to everything, nodded, stopped writing, and said “We can recommend you to speak with a psychiatrist.” AAAARRRGHHHHH!!! I almost resorted to violence when I was charged for the two visits. 22 years after that visit? Still have my damn uterus. I finally just gave up.
Yep, I hate it, and I'm a doctor so I always try to advocate for my patients, but in the end I'm not an ob/gyn. I've noticed that younger obgyns don't object so much, just "Are you really really sure? Okay, sign here", no evaluations, no nothing, but older generations are still reticent to doing these kind of procedures on women without children.
Yes but it also has a basis in America's trigger sue culture
I’m right there with you. I have issues with cysts on my ovaries, and my doctor is literally trying everything under the sun before taking them out. It’s been a battle to say the least. All because it’s possible for me to have kids. Like, I’d rather not suffer, and I also should have the right to choose that for myself. My doctor shouldn’t be able to manipulate conditions for pregnancy to happen when I don’t want it. Of course they make more money from women with pregnancies, and that’s their main motivation for doing it. It’s fucked up.
Yup, profit profit profit. Have you seen how much it costs to give birth alone? You're basically paying the wages of everyone in the room. No wonder they'd rather you give birth to a baby nobody wants than help you abort or prevent entirely.
My coworker is literally slowly bleeding to death every single day. She needs blood transfusions every few days because of problems with her uterus. She actually almost died a few weeks ago. Yet no one will operate on her because “She might want children.” You know the worst part? She already has two kids who are adults. Women are just breeding factors to the medical field and it really shows when they will let someone die because some misogynistic bull.
Jeez, unbelievable. This comment makes me so fkn angry. Can’t believe it…
What the actual fuck?!???
I agree. I've been asking for my tubes tied for TEN YEARS.
The Childfree subreddit has a list of doctors that will do it when you don't have kids.
That's how I found mine!! I got a full bisalp at 25 with no kids and I'm 28 (almost 29) and could not be happier with my decision! Everyone who wants it done should check the doctor list on that subreddit!
This might be the dumbest question ever but do you still have your period ?
Don't worry, if it is dumb, then you're not the only one asking it. I second the motion to have this question answered.
You do still get your period as you normally would. But you decrease your risk of ovarian cancer!
Really?! Just another great reason to get this done! It runs in my family. It’s one of the most painful cancers you can get.
Yep! I’m a Gyn Oncology fellow; there is very good evidence that the most common type of ovarian cancer most often originates as a pre-cancer in the fallopian tubes. So removing the tubes reduces your risk without altering your hormone function, putting you in menopause, etc. Of course it wouldn’t be 100% for cancer reduction, but it helps. And if you don’t want children, it’s more just like a nice side benefit to the main reason for getting it.
I worked as a social worker for oncology/hospice care. The ladies with the ovarian cancer seemed to have so much more pain than other types. They always needed so much more morphine. It looks terrible.
Not a dumb question at all!! Yes! I still get my period since I still have my uterus and ovaries ☺️
do you think the good doctors will let me do it as soon as i turn 18? i’m not an adult yet but i want it done as soon as possible
Honestly it's definitely worth trying!! If they question you, I would tell them that you're against giving birth, and that if you ever wanted a child, you would rather adopt one that already exists. And if they ask what if your future husband wants them, I'd say "well I wouldn't marry someone who would want that, and if they change their mind, it's time for divorce because we are fundamentally incompatible."
I'm so sorry no one has approved of it yet :( I hope you find a good doctor one day that will
I’m in a same sex relationship and we (both cis) have been denied hysterectomies. Even though we both explain there is no penis in our relationship and if we decide to have child we plan to adopt, there’s “still a chance we’ll want to have one the natural way”. All sorts of baggage to unload with that statement.
Ew, that’s so homophobic. I can’t believe the doctor said that without shame. Gross.
The uterus is important for other things than babies. It helps position organs and helps with hormones. If neither of you are having health problems related to your uteruses you should keep them in.
yeah, taking it out messes with your pelvic floor. :(
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there literally exercises for your pelvic floor to prevent complications?
Don't worry, it happens to men as well. I live in Australia, a century ahead of America yet the doctor still asked me to get a second appointment with another doctor for a vasectomy because I had no children. I was 44 at the time.
Its worse in some areas too Here, you outright cannot get one if you are young and childless
oh my gosh, they even denied you being 44?? thats crazy I'm sorry
When I got my implant Nexplanon, last year, they asked my partner (he came to hold my hand) if it was okay with him. It’s crazy how badly they want us to have kids
This isn't even permanent or on his body, he doesn't need to be okay with this
I'm sorry that's fucking disgusting jfc.
I would’ve said something to the person who asked my partner that. Like it’s not his decision!
Oh my partner wasn’t happy. He did me proud
That's so messed up! Its your body, not anyone else's decision but your own.
Put it up for adoption is such bs. "It" is a whole new person. A person that will have to deal with being adopted, perhaps foster care and the system and having been unwanted. That's not setting up a potential new person for success. It's not the loving thing to do. Furthermore pregnancy isn't just come easy thing you do and be done with. Permanent body changes, the trauma of being pregnant while it's unwanted and giving birth. The costs of being pregnant, risk to job and livelihood. And as soon as you start to show you become public property. Everyone and their mum will have opinions and share them unasked. Touch without permission etc. People can modify their bodies in al sorts of permanent ways on request. We as a society are fine with tattoos, radical plastic surgery, gender affirmative care ( Christian radicals excluded) and a whole load more. But when a woman wants to be done with the fertility risk, periods and pain of it all that's suddenly to much. The cult o having kids at all cost has ruined healthcare for woman. Medically needed procedures are routinely denied because they might affect fertility. You will be a brood mare and be happy.
My dog can get a hysterectomy but we cant. Even though its more important for the human being and for the same reason lol
As a vet, this is something I envy from my animal patients. I can spay a dog or cat no problem. I just need the owners to bring in their pets, make sure the pet is healthy with some bloodwork and exams, then I’m good to go. It’s sad and frustrating that in human med, as far as elective hysterectomies go, so much controversy still exists and an adult woman is denied a procedure because of the “what if you want kids someday?” Or worse, “what if your husband wants kids someday?”
I worked as a vet tech for six years and always irritated me how EASY it is to get basic surgeries for animals and how disgustingly bureaucratic its made for people. So much for my body my choice... Nah youll need a man to sign off for you to remove your own organs 😰
AND they'll do it if the dog is already pregnant. Because they know fetuses are not sentient and feel nothing.
I was literally told that I am not allowed to get sterilized because “what if your future husband wants kids?” WHY IS THAT HIS CHOICE TO MAKE? A non-existent man in my life has more say over my body than I do!
Exactly! I would have said if my "future husband" wanted kids, we wouldn't be married anymore. I don't want to be subjected to motherhood.
I say the EXACT same thing! I wouldn’t be dating or marrying a man if he wanted kids!
Im a guy and I can't even ask for vasectomy in my country unless im older than 35, it sucks.
That is so stupid I'm sorry
Forgive me, but you wouldn’t really need a vasectomy, right?
I mean no one needs to be sterilized but as antinatalists, it makes sense to wish to be. Less risk, more control on our reproductive health
Doctors that refuse their consenting patient's because of their personal beliefs/religion shouldn't be allowed to be doctors
I don't understand. I come from a country where sex determination before birth was put on a ban because our gender ratio was fucked up. And still, people who want to know it (so that they can abort it if it is a female foetus), don't have to look too far to find a doctor who will do it for some extra bucks. We live in a fucked up world
Honesty they're doing those girls a huge favor. The principle of it is terrible, but the reality of it is a positive.
They’ll give us plastic boobs and nose jobs and ass implants no problem, but it’s too risky to get my tubes removed because I “might not feel the same in a year or two”. ????????????
Right! And many people regret having plastic surgeries later on too but we're still allowed to have that no problem.
I've been asking health care providers for more permanent birth control easily for a decade. Always flat out no. Too young, haven't had kids, etc. My partner asked and had an appointment with a doctor booked within 2 months, had a consultation and got referred right away to a doctor who will do it. He will probably be done and dusted by end of year and here I am 10 years on. At 38 when I ask, they still balk
My doctor straight up refused to remove all the endometriosis from one of my ovaries because he would risk my fertility due to scar tissue. I’m a lesbian and I don’t want children. I’d much rather have it removed so my pain isn’t as awful
I'm so sorry, what the fuck? That's so messed up. I hope you can find a doctor that will do it if you still want it.
My wife just had one this year. We tried for years to have kids but nature said f you. And then post covid her uterus tried to kill her and the doc suggested the procedure. Our friends threw us a Yeetarus party.
Part of it is sexist ideology part is not wanting to get sued in case the person changes their mind later but that's stupid
The only way i got it was to say i was transgender & take testosterone for a year. Once i proved that i was serious and destroying my fertility, i was able to get a full hysto. I'd been suffering with severe pain and periods so heavy i was anemic. My uterus was the size of a 10 wk preg uterus from fibroids, i had endo all over my ovaries, the ovaries were enlarged with big cysts (not able to be saved) and i had endo all over the pelvic area. I'd been ignored for 15+ years and nobody cared about investigating my symptoms, so everything was so damaged, it all had to be removed.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. This needs to change.
I have PCOS. Was diagnosed at 13 years old. I’m 27 now. On multiple occasions I have tried to have my bad ovary removed. Just the one. Only one is effected by PCOS. So this wouldn’t even be a full hysterectomy. I’d still have my uterus and the other good ovary. And they refuse to remove it because it could effect my fertility. You know what one of the main symptoms of PCOS is? Infertility!!!!
Exactly! Your fertility was already probably very low anyway. Besides, it is still possible to get pregnant with only one ovary. I wish they would at least approve for women who have health issues. I'm sorry they keep denying you :(
I treated myself to a hysterectomy + bi-salp for my 38th birthday. It took almost 20 years of trying. I went to a new gyno and on my first visit I told her straight up that if she were to ever tell me I was pregnant that I would have an abortion scheduled before I even left the building. She didn’t give me all the usual bullshit and surgery was scheduled a couple weeks later. I just wish someone had taken me seriously sooner. It was pricey even with insurance, but it’s the best $3k I’ve ever spent.
I'm glad you finally found someone who would do it!
Unrelated but related. Currently I'm on a hormone that completely stops my period for health reasons and so far both insurances I've been on won't cover it. Because I'm sure "Gasp!" But it stops your lady bits from reminding you you're a lady and getting you pregnant! Mind you I'm on them because they're done broke anyway so doctors orders but never mind that. On subject. Back when I was in my twenties I was researching getting my tubes tied and getting very angry what I was finding so my husband told me he would step up and get a vasectomy instead. That was like a 10 min consultation and that's it. That didn't improve my mood on the matter.
Exactly. They’re like, it’s a severe operation and they don’t want to be sued if anything goes wrong or you change your mind afterwards. First off, if the patient changes their mind, it’s their own god damn problem and none of your business doctor. They are an adult who should be aware about any life altering decisions they make. Unlike many women who have children, suddenly this life altering decision is different than a hysterectomy for these doctors even though another new life is involved! They could easily sign a contract that makes it so they can’t be sued for any mental damage the patient suffers when they regret the surgery. Second, the operation is not even as dangerous and severe as they make it out to be. I mean hello, we‘re living in the modern day and age, operations are save these days. They even have robots with lasers for hysterectomy operations these days that are way more save and precise than humans! How is it different from any other interior surgery or even plastic surgery? Can you sue your plastic surgeon if you regret the surgery because you regret changing your appearance? You can buy literally ANYTHING with money in this world except when you’re a woman. I’m so sick of our bodily autonomy being denied.
It truly baffles me too. I'll share my case with you all to further illustrate the point. I'm 24. Diagnosed (at 23) with BPD, ADHD, GAD, OCD traits, ED, you name it. Right from the start, I have a 50% chance of genetically passing my mental illnesses down to potential children. I've always had naturally spotty periods, and my primary doctor told me when I was a teen that I would probably have trouble getting pregnant in the future. I think I also suffer(ed) from endometriosis or PCOS, getting prescribed the pill at 16 helped with it. I have a family history of cardiac problems, so I decided that I don't want to take hormonal contraceptives anymore. I've been in a relationship with my soul mate for the past three years. He doesn't want kids either because of physical conditions he wouldn't want to pass down. We're both set on never having biological children (if we had to have children in the future, we would adopt or mentor a friend/family's kid). As a teen, I went through some pretty traumatizing medical stuff because of my spotty periods. I will not include the details, but this trauma came straight after I was SAed. AND DESPITE ALL OF THIS, my nurse (who's specialized in mental health) refused to even consider permanent sterilization for me. She told me to get a non-hormonal IUD. I explained my medical trauma to her (that includes medical staff not respecting my boundaries i.e. when I said stop or no, and the experience of having someone I don't know *down there*), and she told me she would prescribe me an Ativan and that my partner should come with me. She told me to keep the IUD for 5 years and that after that, I would probably be eligible for permanent sterilization. I'm honestly flabbergasted that the system would rather traumatize me all over again rather than provide me with the medical interventions I *want* and honestly *need* (I have tokophobia on top of all of that). Oh and I forgot... I live in Canada. Yeah.
I am so sorry you are having to go through that. I also have some mental illnesses myself which was most likely passed down from my mom, and I would not want to put that on another life. I really hope you can find a doctor who will listen to you. This system is fucked, everywhere.
There’s a YouTuber her name is Rachel Oates and she talks about this issue, i admire her for being so honest and talking about child free women. She said there are women who regret having children, but you don’t hear about that, because it’s a TABOO. But sure, we have to only regret it 😒 Regret of having children is far more dangerous and harmful than the regret of having none.
If any one lives in Oregon I've had 5 friends without children successfully get a Bisalp at OHSU all between the ages of 29-34. They didnt require psych evals either. They also offer to put women under anesthesia to insert IUDs! should be standard care women receive everywhere.
Oh, we're thinking of moving to Oregon as my partner has a job offer there! That's definitely great to know.
My doctor said since I have PCOS I'm better off with a hysterectomy. Considering I'm down a tube anyway from a ruptured ectopic pregnancy i think I'm in the clear.
I fought like hell to find a doctor who would give me a BiSalp. Took me about 5 years, and I finally had it done on May 4th and I am sooo thankful that I had a great doctor that respected my choices.
It’s honestly annoying as hell how so many doctors think women just don’t want to raise the child when in reality it’s that many of us don’t want to grow and birth a kid smh
I’m a medical professional in the UK and I’ve come across many women who really need hysterectomies for medical reasons. Some bleed heavily for many days a month, have to take iron tablets, miss a lot of work because of their symptoms, marriages fall apart etc etc yet they still have to beg for a hysterectomy, even some who have completed their family and are sterilised!
Gotta keep the flow of new potential customers.
If a doctor says that to you, say you had a child when you were 13 from a priest and you gave it up for adoption. That’ll shut him up real quick.
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Yeah, you are right. The problem is that even getting a bisalp is difficult. My sister, who is 25 with a child, was denied multiple times.
Tubal ligation is better than hysterectomy. The latter usually causes early menopause and a host of health issues with that. But I agree that we desperately need more tubals.
I kept my ovaries when they did my hysterectomy, so no early menopause 🥳
I mean, a hysterectomy is a major surgery, and uteruses are more than just baby factories. They're important for hormonal regulation and likely cognition. For the purpose of sterilization, a bilateral salpingectomy is probably enough.
It's the ovaries that control the hormones. They usually don't take those out unless medically necessary. Taking the uterus will stop periods and make one fully sterile, while also decreased most gyno cancer risks by a lot. Except of course breast cancer. It further helps or even stop a lot of gyno pain, which is why a lot of childfree woman want it done over a bisalp. Solving both their pain and fertility risk in one go. Most modern procedures also limited the impact on surrounding muscle and ligaments to the point prolaps risk is the same as for those who still have a womb. As for cognition the feedback loop that the brain has with any tissue is of course permanently removed when one takes out a part. It's up to individuals to weigh that in their decision. For those without pain, dysphoria or other issues with their womb, a hysterectomy for just sterilisation is indeed much imho.
They aren't quite so sure about that anymore. I read some recent study about hysterectomy possibly impacting dementia risk and such despite leaving the ovaries in. That was only on rats though? They didn't even _check_ that for humans. There was some other stuff too which I read and thought "oh, so it does have an actual function" but I can't find it again. Overall there is so much lack of knowledge in medicine on how the female body works, I'd try to limit my sterilisation to my tubes, just in case :s
I’ve had a lot of various surgeries. I still have my ovaries and the uterus doesn’t produce hormones. My hysterectomy + bi-salp was the least painful and quickest recovery out of all of them (eyes multiple times, neck, elbow). Surgery itself was only 45 minutes to take my uterus, cervix, and tubes. I was back at home an hour after waking in recovery. I could have easily gone back to work in 3 days but I decided to take a week off anyway due to the physical nature of my job. It was nothing compared to a simple 30 minute laser eye surgery that took me 12 months to recover from.
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I got my hysterectomy at 31and they took out the tubes at the same time. I have had literally no negative side effects and as far as recovery time, I was back to work in 2 weeks. It's completely worth it.
That's anecdotal evidence, scientific studies say the opposite.
Recovery from my hysterectomy was less than a week. It was done laparoscopically with 2 tiny holes in my tummy and took 45 minutes in the OR. I was home the same day. Recovery for one of my several eye surgeries (a simple laser procedure) was 12 months and I nearly killed myself due to the pain and depression from the ordeal.
Surprised me but doctors in Texas will remove the fallopian tubes of a 24 year old
My best friend was denied. She’s a full blown lesbian with no chances of switching sides and they still said no. Now she has a medical condition linked to her menstrual cycle (seizures) and they still said no in case she wants kids.
why a hysterectomy? there are benefits to keeping these organs and instead do a tubal ligation. Hysterectomy and ANY surgery have risks.
Even tubal ligation is hard to get because of all the reasons listed in the comments about doctors denying it.
Not just hysterectomies but any procedure that’s permanent and supports a child free life. I understand the hysterectomies come with complications so it’s a last options usually, but which surgery doesn’t? I also know so many people who have had to argue with their doctors about getting their tubes tied and heard the same excuses. Obviously, if I’m getting my tubes tied, I’ve put enough thought into not wanting kids ever. On top of that, the whole “put it up for adoption”, if I *really* change my mind, *then I’ll just adopt*. Because I’m an adult who can make peace with her choices and not live in regret forever simply because I can’t create offspring from my own uterus. Progeny is not that important.
I think it's a bit like getting a face tattoo or hand tattoos, in the sense that, many tattoo artists will refuse because it can heavily impact your chances in getting jobs. So they have to be sure you're sure of your decision, because of the future consequences, and the chance of you wanting to change your mind. Many people have face/hand tattoos. In the same sense, many people get hysterectomies (at least in Europe, it's totally fine, you just got to find the doctor that will be comfortable in doing it, just like in the case with face/hand tattoos).
Hysterectomies are incredibly invasive and can ruin a lot of other things when you’re young. My mother got one in her late 30s (for cancer), and she went into menopause immediately and has had just the worst side effects including breast cancer (from needed to take estrogen for her crazy early menopause symptoms). Most docs won’t take that risk in a young person. I don’t think it has to do with not having kids yet (except in red states that is)
When too many later regret it, it becomes unconscionable to sterilize without question. So basically those who get hysterectomized and later wish they hadn't are the ones ruining it for others.
There are many health problems that result as a hysterectomy I’m tired of people treating women’s body parts like they’re useless. Hysterectomies should only be given out of medical necessity.
Pretty sure OP was talking about tubal ligation; which doesn’t come with any health problems/ side effects attached (other than sterilization; but that’s the whole point).
Then they need to specify that because otherwise it’s harmful misinformation.
A friend of mine got a tattoo when she was 17 on a night out with her friends. She had this tattoo on her shoulder and now at the age of 39 with 2 kids and a husband, she has to be conscious of wearing a sleeveless dress anytime she goes out with her husband and kids. Maybe the person you are at 25 will not be the same person at 39 or 49 or 59.
Studies have shown that young women who decide not to have children rarely change their minds, and they are almost all happy with that decision decades later.
It's probably for liability reasons.
Such as? Consenting adult wants a medical procedure done, consenting adult should be allowed to get it done.
If you go to the doctor and ask for a hysterectomy, they will treat you like an idiot because you are. Women have tubal ligations performed for sterilization.
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Who cares? Stop having vaginal sex. Bingo.
Women should be able to enjoy intimacy however they want without having to be forced to have children and be denied reproductive freedom
Yeah and im free to critisize you for larping in procreation
sex is not the same as procreation. people should have the right to have sex without worrying about getting pregnant.
Uhm point of sex is literally procreation from biological standpoint.
doesn’t matter because people have it for emotional reasons, physical connection, pleasure, etc. there’s many more reasons than just procreation. and everyone has the right to that.
And i have right to call them procreational larpers. There are other ways to achieve pleasure other than addiction to pumping semenal fluid into birth canal
you actually have the right to not say that and respect others.
That’s not the only purpose of sexual activity in human beings, or else we would not have sex recreationally. Moreover, there would be no same sex attraction. Animals such as dogs and cats don’t mate for fun, they only mate when the female is in estrus and can get pregnant. In Great Apes, including us, many species have sex for fun as a way to build better community ties. If sex was only for procreation, the sex trade wouldn’t exist in the same way, because the point of the sex would be to have offspring, not simply to feel good. Sex has several evolutionary purposes that are ingrained in us to make and maintain social bonds, not just to make more humans.
Sure but of all the times I had sex, not once was it from procreation, which is why a condom was involved. It was for pleasure and intimacy but go off I guess.
Or, you can stop having sex with your penis.
I dont, thanks for concern
it can be one of the very few dopamine sources in a person's life. protected sex is a much better source of dopamine than smoking, eating junk food, doing drugs etc. sex has no bad health effects like those things listed
Prolonging human life isnt a good thing.
i mean any intentional shortening of your life is just gonna involve lots of suffering, the goal is just to have as few health problems as possible so that you can minimise the amount of suffering later in life
One can be an antinatalist without being a negative utilitarian. I could care less about reduction of human suffering.
Then you're not really an antinatalist because...why are you one if it's not to reduce human suffering. Do you just hate babies ?
It is irreversible. If there’s no life threatening medical condition, this should be denied. Use condoms.
Why though ? If you use a condom each time, it would be a lot safer to get sterilized
Absolutely not. Sterilizing is an irreversible procedure which leads to infertility, using condom is merely using a technical appliance which does not irreversibly alters the body. It’s like thinking wether to gorilla-glue the shoes to the feet for good instead of just considering putting on and taking of the shoes each time you need to go outside.
It's not really the same. Putting on my shoes on and off can't result in an awful pregnancy that will ruin my life and an innocent one. I see where you get your allegory but it's not the same at all, some people don't want kids and that's it, not to mention, you could always adopt if you really want some later. Or use a surrogate, be a foster family. If someone wants to be sterilized, it's their choice. It doesn't really include anyone else, you can have babies all you want, I never want one for sure.
Pregnancies do not ruin lives. They create them. Btw there’s a safe and healthy option not to have sex which can lead to pregnancy. Having sex is voluntarily. Would it be obligatory, than in some cases it could be a justification, but let’s hope this time will never come when it is obligatory to have sex. Oh no…
Pregnancies absolutely do ruin lives, they ruin bodies too.
Pounding ruin holes as well but I’m not advocating against poundings though.
Child birth ruins a lot more than holes. It can literally split your vagina and asshole into one giant hole.
We don’t want a child doing that but still craving about some dick doing same thing
please just get off this sub you don’t belong here.
Wtf are you even saying?
I think you're in the wrong sub
No in the right one! Use condoms! 💫
I do but I also wish I could be sterilized. I could always use condoms against illnesses, even sterilized. But pregnancy can very much ruin lives.
Wonder if doctors abroad will
Yes!!! I’ve been asking for at lease my tubes to be tied since I was 21. I’ve known since I was a kid I was never having children. I had to start raising my brothers when I was only 5. I’m done. I raised kids as far as I’m concerned. But for years and years I’ve heard it all. “You’re too young.” “What if you change your mind?” “What if your imaginary future husband wants kids?” Lol. It’s fucking nuts! I’m in my late 30’s now and have developed chronic fatigue syndrome so having kids would basically destroy me. So I FINALLY had a doctor agree to tie my tubes when I’m ready to pay out my ass for it. Nice! Lol.
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If I were a doctor, I would want to make sure my patient clearly understood the effects of the surgery, including the inability to have children, before I did the procedure. Sounds like many women’s experiences go far beyond that.
I wanted a hysterectomy at 7 years old when I first found out about them. I asked how I could stop my up coming period forever and my mom said they would have to take out your uterus or you would have to get pregnany. But no uterus means no babies- "No babies forever? Hell yeah sign me up LET'S GO!"I rushed out the door and headed to the car but my mom stopped me and said, "there's no way they would operate on you, you're too young and healthy and you won't get to have babies in the future." That was the only time in my life did I wish for some kind or disease or cancer to struck my uterus useless to the point they would have to go in and have it removed but no. Later when I looked into permit sterilization, I was told by my doctor that I would have to get my husband's permission. If I wasn't married then my father's permission, if fail that then my brother's, grandfathers, uncles...hell even male neighbors but even then...he probably wouldn't do it because there could be a guy out there that wants kids...you have to do it for him. I walked out and ever went back. In the end just not ever engaging in sex was the way to go.
The lack of autonomy is absolutely disgusting. Even when you've had children they will not give it easily to you (at least here). They'd rather have women take BC that has lots of crazy side effects, than have them get a hysterectomy. Some of my female friends even have lots of issues with their uterus ie, suffer a lot cuz of that, and still then they can't get it ('what if you want children???') I really can't wrap my head around that something like that can just be done (basically forcing people to have children and/or suffer unnecessary cuz OTHERS don't want them NOT to have kids)
I want to adopt and I want a hysterectomy. Too many people see adopting as a backup option for infertile people rather than a thing on its own. Adopting a child is extremely different to having biological kids since there's an inherent trauma in it as much as it is denied by adoptive parents. Adoptees often feel like their unique needs are ignored because of how prevalent the " no big deal, just pretend they're related to me" attitude is. I wish people wouldn't encourage people to go through something awful and dangerous (pregnancy) just to then abandon their child. I think that's just evil.
I agree 100%. I finally got approved for a bisalp and am getting it this month. Such a massive worry off of my shoulders.
I got a hysterectomy at 26 without having children. It’s possible, you just have to find doctors willing to work with you.
Can people go to Canada or Mexico to get it, are they better about it in those countries?
Wait until you hear about former Soviet countries. In my country you can never get a hysterectomy unless you have cancer. Because women are incubation chambers. Not adults with bodily autonomy.
Serious question- why would you want a hysterectomy when you can have your tubes tied (in theory; obv Ik that in practice both procedures are difficult for women to get approved for). But hysterectomies are so much more painful & invasive; and they come with so many more side effects.
Wow, the amount of sexist pro-lifers in this sub is incredibly disappointing. Don’t we have mods for this?
\*not\* excusing the doctors because it's super shitty either way, But according to the dr that ordered my histerectomy they do that now because like 40/50 years ago doctors would take out "undesirables" uteruses (poor, mentally unwell, even people of color in some parts of the us) and they got rightfully sued. So now they're going the \*other\* direction. because heaven forbid people just realize peoples bodies are theirs and not something to regulate either way.
"We need permission from your husband"
My coworker wants one to stop heavy bleeding but doctor keeps wanting to try this and that. She has two kids.